Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Stanley Meyer => Stanley Meyer => Stanley's Vic => Topic started by: paulsonaivy on January 30, 2009, 16:52:36 pm

Title: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 16:52:36 pm
what could the dimension be ,i mean abt the bobbin
rgds paul
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 17:06:15 pm
by looking at that bobbin assembly the description of it construction is wrong or this assembly was an early attempt which was updated the outter wire is supposed to be bidirectionally wound i can not see how this is possible with this outer bobbin
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 17:28:26 pm
i dont think so,
i think its the VIC used by stan and looks  a bit easy to make if the dimensions can be found
rgds paul
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 17:41:52 pm
Here are a couple of pictures of Stans VIC coil and the bobbins used to make it.Keep in mind the laminate core is @ 3/4 inch square,2 3/4 inch dia. and 3 inches long.

Looking great Don!
Thanks for posting.
Looks like the multiple bif coil assembly of stan to me.

br
steve
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 18:31:27 pm
by looking at that bobbin assembly the description of it construction is wrong or this assembly was an early attempt which was updated the outter wire is supposed to be bidirectionally wound i can not see how this is possible with this outer bobbin


Plz define your definition of bi-directionnal with a simple sketch plz , I had the impression it was simply wound like any other coil left to right then right to left etc untill you reach the top , this is how it was ... Its just a secondary coil and thast the only way you can work in such a narrow bobbin , Stan calls for a "bidirectionnal dual primary coil" . He "may" be referring to the pickup coil , I am unsure of this tho , it is confusing the way he calls out the primary in the Figure drawing . In the text body its pretty understandable tho ...

This most likely is the pulsing core design for the buggy tho I am not sure , maybe have been an U core ... It is the VIC of the injector that I am sure of tho ...

Obviously the wire isnt there , probably somebody had it removed so it cant be used or w/e other reason .

There is other variations and hybrids in chapter 8 wich calls for a "bifilar secondary" , chapter 10-4 calls for a bizarre coil as well .



Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 18:48:38 pm
its been a while since i read the brief but i belive it say the middle coil was wound bidirectionally to inhibit ringing  i would assume bi directionally to mean they cross over each other in the middle as the brief shows in an x shape or that the coil goes from one end of the bobbin to the other back and forth  looking at the inner bobbin their dose appear to be a step between th inductor and were the other bobbin slides over it  probably goes their
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 18:50:05 pm
its been a while since i read the brief but i belive it say the middle coil was wound bidirectionally to inhibit ringing  i would assume bi directionally to mean they cross over each other in the middle as the brief shows in an x shape or that the coil goes from one end of the bobbin to the other back and forth  looking at the inner bobbin their dose appear to be a step between th inductor and were the other bobbin slides over it  probably goes their

Yes 2 bobbins is way easier than 3 bobbin , this is way more efficient than the 2curious design .
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 19:12:17 pm
Resonant Choke Coils are composed of 430F or 430FR inductance stainless steel film coated wire (typically .004 Ga. or smaller) which are axially (spiralled) Bifilar wound about core bobbin, forming individual spiral-wrap (inner to outer circumference and being equally-length) coils electrically connected in sequencial order to form resistive pickup coil.

Primary Coil (typically .030 Ga.) film coated magnet wire is longitudinal wrapped in
space relationship on top of and layered bidirectional across spiral-wrap coils to complete bobbin cavity.

Secondary pickup coil is, also, composed of individual spiral wrapped
Coils (typically .002 Ga. magnet wire) electrically connected in sequential order to
form bobbin cavity which is placed on top of and in space relationship to primary coil cavity.




Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 19:28:09 pm
Looks like magnetic electrolysis, wheres the top? .Or, what am i looking at here, the alumin box with a threaded hole

correct

Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2009, 23:39:45 pm
The bobbin size I wrote in the first post.2 3/4" od x 3" long with a 3/4" square hole through the inside bobbin.The outside bobbin is for the secondary wire.Each groove is filled one at a time.Fill first one then jump to second one and so forth.The smaller inside bobbin holds the chokes and the primary.The two chokes are wound at the same time side by side.You follow the same path as the secondary.Fill the first then jump across to the next and so forth.Then you wrap paper over top of the chokes, then you wind the primary on top of the chokes.This wire goes from left to right then back from right to left.One row at a time until you get what you need on it for your primary coil.Then this bobbin slides inside the outside.The bore of the outside bobbin will be @ 1 7/8" dia.All grooves will be 1/16" wide.The webs between the grooves are @ .070".As for the "X" marks in the VIC coil drawing figure 6-1,they only represent the area of the cavity to fill.Not any reference to direction or crossing of wire.Longitudinal wrap means left to right,and bidirectional means one way than the other(Both Ways).And yes the chokes need to be stainless,buy yours from dankie before it's gone.
The aluminum box it's in is the back half.Then the front cover as seen in the previos picture,goes on top of this one.The high voltage lead comes out of the hole and the input  goes into the 15 pin block,and yes it's the same as a PC plug.
Don
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 00:28:08 am
dynodon do you know how deep the grooves or the inside diameters are on each bobbin wire cavity and is their a little angled slice in  the .070 divider  to ease the transition of the wire from the top of the wrap to the bottom of the next cavity  similar to hiperformance igntion coil bobbin
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 01:13:27 am
it is common for hi peformance coils to have the secondary wrapped over the primary it increase the voltage when the feild collapses as in this accel coil  the coil surrounded by the core is not common however   the laminates will rust like that  with out the coating it probably was in hi voltage insulating oil bath

dynodon was the unseen case half machined with a oring groove in it so the coil could be filled with insulating oil   and did the outter windings look like the .002 wire was a single wire or was it a small strainded wire made of .002 wire
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 03:58:07 am
My best guess on the depths are 1/2" on secondaries(outside bobbin)and 1/4" deep for the chokes.Straight cut grooves no tapers.That whole coil assembly was in storage and got water in it.It's not a sealed box with O-rings.It doesn't get filled with oil,just a dry box.Stan explains why the primary is in the middle,it helps send the pulses through the chokes and the secondary better.Yes it is backwards than normal.It's designed that way on purpose.Read some more please.It's all in his writings and videos.The WFC is seperate to this box,it isn't the cell.
Don
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 11:29:41 am
GR8 WORK MR DON,
CAN WE PLS HAVE SOME MORE PHOTOS IF POSSIBLE OF THE VIC.
I MEAN THE WIRES AND THE FERRITE ROD BEING USED,
ALL R ASKING ABT THE BOBBIN ,I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABT THE CORE HE USED,
I AM SORRY IF I AM ASKING TO MUCH
RGDS PAUL
Title: Re: Please put here all your documents and pictures of Stan Meyer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 12:21:20 pm
I SEE U SITTING ON THE CARS  TYRE,
DID U EVER TRY STARTING THE CAR WITH STAN'S SETUP ON IT,
IS IT POSSIBLE FOR A PHOTO OF ALL OF HIS UNIT,
I AM ASKING THIS IT LOOKS LIKE UR THE ONLY GUY WHO HAS GOT SO CLOSE TO THE CAR
I DON'T THINK ANY ONE ELSE WAS SO LUCKY AS U R
JUST A THOUGHT
RGDS PAUL
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 14:07:32 pm
Hi,

Please continue here with the discussion on what we see on the pictures of Don.

br
Steve


Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 14:38:52 pm
Hi,

My 2 cents on the pictures are as follows:
Its a coilsetup, like a transformer.
There is NO water involved in between the coils of this setup. It uses external electrodes.
I see cable in and outputs.
A coil over a coil is not new in coil-country.

What do we need here?
What i miss is a picture / schematic of the whole setup in which this VIC part is used.
Is somebody able to creat one? Don said that this VIC is used in comby with 1 set of 3 inch tubes.

I have some VIC pics attached which i think are matching the cores on the pictures.
If you look carefull, you see the delrin cores are matching the injectorsystem and have nothing to do with a 3 inch tubecell..... :-\

br
Steve


Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 15:43:29 pm
There are no more pictures,and I won't be able to get any more.Everything is being sold to Orion.I won't get to see it again.As you can plainly see,the core of the coil assembly is a EI laminate steel stack.There isn't any ferrite rods in this core.That picture is the whole VIC coil in one.And yes Steve this coil is intended to be used with the Injector system.After all it is in the memo 425 for the Injector System.But I do feel that it is the lastest version of the coil that could be a direct replacement for the earlier models as well.You would just wrap the primary and secondaries as needed.This coil would be wound for higher voltages,than the tube cell needs.
As for starting the car,it isn't all together.Some of the components were taken off,by the previous owner.This was done to split up the system,so if the buggy was ever stolen,they couldn't get it to work.All of the pieces are there to put it back together.The buggy was set up with the injector system.But Stan never got to finish it before he died.It was said that he was able to get it to fire but not run.There was an issue of timing everything.The current owner doesn't know how it works and has no desire to put it together or have anyone else work on it.He just wants to sell it.So don't ask why he doesn't do anything with it,he doesn't have time or money or the desire.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 16:38:53 pm
There are no more pictures,and I won't be able to get any more.Everything is being sold to Orion.I won't get to see it again.As you can plainly see,the core of the coil assembly is a EI laminate steel stack.There isn't any ferrite rods in this core.That picture is the whole VIC coil in one.And yes Steve this coil is intended to be used with the Injector system.After all it is in the memo 425 for the Injector System.But I do feel that it is the lastest version of the coil that could be a direct replacement for the earlier models as well.You would just wrap the primary and secondaries as needed.This coil would be wound for higher voltages,than the tube cell needs.
As for starting the car,it isn't all together.Some of the components were taken off,by the previous owner.This was done to split up the system,so if the buggy was ever stolen,they couldn't get it to work.All of the pieces are there to put it back together.The buggy was set up with the injector system.But Stan never got to finish it before he died.It was said that he was able to get it to fire but not run.There was an issue of timing everything.The current owner doesn't know how it works and has no desire to put it together or have anyone else work on it.He just wants to sell it.So don't ask why he doesn't do anything with it,he doesn't have time or money or the desire.
Don

Hi Don,

Well, i ll will not ask you that question. I think you done a great job!
The buggy and Stans paperwork are back in business.
You also took care for those wonderfull pictures of these VIC parts!
For me, it answerd some questions i had!
So, again, great job!
Are you gonna build some parts for testing yourself?

br
Steve
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 16:55:47 pm
From what I've read on the VIC it appears to me that the coil is the heart of this circuit.  I believe that the Matrix Circuit is where Stan took the evolution of this coil.
Has anyone ever built the Vic Matrix Circuit Coil and tried to get hydroxy production from a cell with it?
Has anyone ever built it to drive the injector?   I mean besides Stan

I am attaching the two figures to show my reasoning for believing the coil evolved.

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 18:02:38 pm
GR8 WORK MR DON,
CAN WE PLS HAVE SOME MORE PHOTOS IF POSSIBLE OF THE VIC.
I MEAN THE WIRES AND THE FERRITE ROD BEING USED,
ALL R ASKING ABT THE BOBBIN ,I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW ABT THE CORE HE USED,
I AM SORRY IF I AM ASKING TO MUCH
RGDS PAUL

LOL , LAY OFF THE CAPS LOCK , YOU LOOK LIKE A NOOB

I think Don has done enough ,  these pictures are simply wonderful . We dont need any new pictures , if you cant understand read up more ...

They gave me good building ideas and clarified a few things , everything makes sense , everything follows the briefing perfectly ...

You can see some sleek building techniques that Stan used to make the bobbin , this is the real thing lol , no doubt about it ...
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2009, 18:12:41 pm
There are no more pictures,and I won't be able to get any more.Everything is being sold to Orion.I won't get to see it again.As you can plainly see,the core of the coil assembly is a EI laminate steel stack.There isn't any ferrite rods in this core.That picture is the whole VIC coil in one.And yes Steve this coil is intended to be used with the Injector system.After all it is in the memo 425 for the Injector System.But I do feel that it is the lastest version of the coil that could be a direct replacement for the earlier models as well.You would just wrap the primary and secondaries as needed.This coil would be wound for higher voltages,than the tube cell needs.
As for starting the car,it isn't all together.Some of the components were taken off,by the previous owner.This was done to split up the system,so if the buggy was ever stolen,they couldn't get it to work.All of the pieces are there to put it back together.The buggy was set up with the injector system.But Stan never got to finish it before he died.It was said that he was able to get it to fire but not run.There was an issue of timing everything.The current owner doesn't know how it works and has no desire to put it together or have anyone else work on it.He just wants to sell it.So don't ask why he doesn't do anything with it,he doesn't have time or money or the desire.
Don

I have to disagree with this , Sorry Don ,  you can see Stan going full speed on the highway with this ...

He made that buggy in the 70's , he got killed in 98 . An old investor of his bought some wire from me and told me all about the sequence of events one night  .  @ the end he had a fully working retrofit system , he was this close to taking the retrofit system into the marke , he was making them in secret and wanted to "spread them around" but he got whacked  .

He got his technology running trust me lol , timing and all that crap  was the easy part for Stan , the guy was a genius ...

He simplified that whole buggy into the retrofit system kit we see in the briefing ... That thing would have cost less than 1500$ at the time ...

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2009, 16:06:06 pm
Steve,yes I'm going to make this coil.I just figured out the sizes I need and will be cutting the bobbins soon.I have the delrin now and will need to get the laminates made.And I have a friend working on a control circuit to pulse it.I already have a cell built for the test.I'll take a picture of my cell to post.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2009, 15:49:00 pm
sdvb
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2009, 12:19:54 pm
DynoDon,

About the VIC...

1, If we were to look at it from a top view then: All windings would be counter-clockwise, right?

2, when you mention bifilar windings for the chokes we would have 4 wire ends on the chokes, do you know how they were connected?

(Did the first choke tye into the second choke like the Tesla patent?)

Figure 6-1 only shows 2 wires total signal in and signal out (as far a connection points). 

Any further clarification would be helpful.

I don't mean to sound dumb here, just want to build it right so to speak.

Warj1990
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2009, 16:53:32 pm
As you see from the picture of the studs sticking out,they weren't hooked up or tied together yet.As for winding,it doesn't matter which direction as long as their all the same way.
Whateven end you start from,those wires will be the one's on the prints with the dot indicator.The chokes would be hooked like the drawings,one on each side of the WFC,and the secondary.Pay attention to the dots.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2009, 19:09:41 pm
dynodon,
i was curious if there were any studs on the other side of the bobbin that we cant see. if so how many.. i think one side of the seconday will conect to one side of choke with a diode in line.. the othere connected on the other side dirrectly so pole orintaion is like stan draws...  since the primary will detterime polarirty of the transfomer right..  i think what really makes it work is having a primary of .030 that is creating a nice magnetic coupling. the .002 seconday can only absorb very little amp activity from being so small then it is going into .004 stainless which is twice its size... sure it has resistance but has twice the dia in capacitance for charge...  we know when installing irrgation that you start with big pipe and as you get into the system the pipes get smaller inorder to build potential/ preasure.. now since u started with 2 inch and downed sized all to 3/4 at the end of the system is this not holding all the potential from being consume like it could be if were just used 2 inch in the hole system.. the 3/4 can only move so much after that potential starts to take over since.. .002-.004 its like upping the size of your pipe from 1/2 to 1 inch.. but ur one inch has a medium in it that works like a reguator to allow potential to stay built up. and can handle the amps from primary so doent heat up.

cheers
outlaw
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2009, 19:20:32 pm
As you see from the picture of the studs sticking out,they weren't hooked up or tied together yet.As for winding,it doesn't matter which direction as long as their all the same way.
Whateven end you start from,those wires will be the one's on the prints with the dot indicator.The chokes would be hooked like the drawings,one on each side of the WFC,and the secondary.Pay attention to the dots.
Don

EXACTLY!
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2009, 16:14:20 pm
The coil had four studs per end.You'l have two for the primary,two for the secondary,and four for the chokes.

Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2009, 17:23:18 pm
hi don ty for the words
can u give us some more details pls ,
 if u have made it can u pls post the photos of ur VIC pls
rgds paul
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2009, 18:24:37 pm
paulsonaivy,
i think dynodon has givien us pretty much all the info that he can about the vic that we dont have.. it is up to us to put the rest together by whats explained in WFC MEMO 425.. for this specific componet.


outlaw
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2009, 13:23:05 pm
Hi everyone,

I'n new here on this board, but I have been around on other boards for quite a while already. I have studied the patents and the tech brief and think I'm getting pretty much up to scratch with most things Stan has said and written.
I've seen the pictures of the VIC matrix coil supplied by Dynodon (Thanks great job!) and it fits in very weel with the desriptions in the tech brief.
One thing I'd like to get answered is: Is the VIC matric coil supposed to work with the TRC or is a  very advanced VIC usable with the normal cell too?
I can't really make that out although I think it should work with a cell also....
So, if I were to buy some wire from Dankie and build one of these VICs and use it on a demonstration like cell, can I expect more than average (read: usable amounts) of gas output?

What do you lot on here think about that?

regards,

Dutchy
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2009, 15:50:31 pm
This question has already been asked.Yes it appears that this coil was for the TRC (injector),but as I said earlier,I think it replaces all previous models.But it would require a different winding ratio,that we will have to work out for ourself.Just because we have a coil doesn't mean it will work.You still need a pulse circuit to run it.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 00:05:19 am
does anyone have a source for th EI core? is it 3/4 x 3/4 for the center and 3/4 x 1/2 for the perimeter?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 00:56:06 am
The EI core would have to be custom made.It's not a off the shelf size.It is 3/4" square and the outside legs will be half the size of the center leg.The standard would be 3/8" wide.I'm talking to a company now to see about getting some made.Plus these laminates are thinner than normal also.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 02:29:17 am
Food for thought .The E core in the picture looks in close resemblence of the GM HEI ignition coil used in the earlier electronic ignition systems tha are mounted in the distributor caps.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 15:34:18 pm
Not even close in size to a HEI from GM.This coil is twice the size.I'm quite familiar with the HEI junk GM sells.Two different coils.You will have to get them custom made like I already said.Or you can prove me wrong.Good luck with that.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 20:15:36 pm
I know your response to the GM coil, DynoDon.

However...

I just happen to have one and don't own a GM anything.  It was on sale 2 years ago at Advanced Auto - so I figued why not.

Now, do I just put it back in a box and continue storing, or get the grinder?   ;D

Warj1990
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 21:33:18 pm
Nice find bro , Looks like the right size.

If its silicon steel good with high freq and thin enough its good ...

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 22:44:02 pm
MSD Core:

3 inch by 3 inch outside to outside.
5/8 inch center leg, 5/8 inch depth also.
3/8 inch end legs, 5/8 inch depth also.

Does close count?

I now need to know how important 10 ohms per foot is (to prevent amp flow and make a static transformer).

I have some 43 and 45 awg wire - don't know if that will work right

Still need an old sewing maching to build a coil winder.

Warj1990

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2009, 23:43:27 pm
If you can make the bobbins to fit that core,you should be able to get enough wire on it.To get 11.6k ohms of wire on the chokes of my replica of Stans bobbins,I will only need 10 of the 14 grooves.The grooves are only 1/16 wide by 3/16 deep.So you might have enough room if you size it right.The only thing you won't know is the specs for the core material,unless you can get it from MSD.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 09, 2009, 20:18:35 pm
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MSD-HEI-COIL-SBC-CHEVY-327-350-454-5-7-5-0-CAMARO-NOVA_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ72Q3a1171Q7c66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a12Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318Q7c301Q3a0Q7c293Q3a2Q7c294Q3a50QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem350163582329QQitemZ350163582329QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 10, 2009, 01:35:51 am
we need to know what hte msd core is made from to know it's operating frequencies.....has anyone looked up a spec or data sheet for it yet?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 02:05:50 am
i'm not gonna lie but i just went over the multi core section of the tech brief again.....and im still lost.....it is a huge step.

please don't look at these and not read them since they look long.....let's not be lazy these are very important information filled sections i have pulled out.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/VIC-WIRE-INFORMATION.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/bobbincavity.jpg)

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/transformer.jpg)


copper or steel
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/coppersteel.jpg)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 02:14:57 am
It all makes sense to me , hes cheating with that coil , hes burning off the amps the easy way but hes getting this free inductance boost , hes still getting that "electromotive force" to move those molecules , hes consuming those amps in the coils and the water molecules just loose their electrons and it gets burned off in the coil also , everything is done with that injector and coil ...

Remember how a tesla coil doesnt hurt?

This is the only way I see this happening ... The coil will get hot if Pyre-ML was recommended , trust me I know , very little % of wire gets this coating .
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 03:22:45 am
Kinesisfilms,

For (Eq 20)
I have the #s to use for the bobbins Dyno posted.  With 11,600 ohms choke and 10-1 ratio stepup from primary to secondary.   There is room on the bobbin to step it up to about 19 to 1 if you desire.

Choke x 14
N = 112
A = .719
B = .0625
C = .177

Primary x 1
N = 382
A = .875
B = 2.399
C = .125

Secondary x 14
N = 273
A = 1.217
B = .0625
C = .217

If you do the math on this please post it.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 03:31:58 am
The Choke is x 14 x 2
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 03:38:51 am
first off the primary and secondary are made of copper as stated above......the bifilar chokes are made of the ss steal.

L is in microhenries not henries

and the only real math here is to take the average radius of the chokes A...THAT IS THE RADIUS IN INCHES CORRECT?.....and use a circumference equation 2*pi*r find our circumference in inches and convert to cm so we can use the SS wire 60 microohms per centimeter and calculate the amount of turns per choke to achieve 11,600 ohms......EACH CHOKE IS 11,600 OHMS as stated here:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/percoil.jpg)

just verify the above for me that everything is in inches and is the radius.....and not the diameter....
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 03:50:20 am
The 430 FR SS wire that Dankie had made was 19.775 ohms per ft.  to get the 11.6K ohms requires 586.6 ft.  the blueprints of Dyno's coil in metric are :

Choke mean dia. = 11.4649 cm
Primary mean dia. = 12.1503 cm
Secondary mean dia.=18.9421 cm

I used the Where statment from the brief to get the #s above

(L) is the inductance in microhenries, (N) is the number of turns, (A) is the mean radius in
inches, (B) is the length of the coil in inches, (C) is the depth of the coil in inches.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 04:50:41 am
so wait from my understanding the choke radius is....approximately 4.5 inches in diameter????...the photos of dynodon holding it do not look 4.5 inches......

NOW EVERYTHING CALCULATED HERE IS IN INCHES.

anyways with the numbers you have given me....we would have to wind the ss wire for each choke approximately [(N) 496.4 turns]....another thing is how is the length of the coil (B) different for every coil?? they should all be the same....i am going to use the information from the file you emailed me .....the outer which is (2.875)-(.238)-(.415)= 2.222 and the inner which is (2.875)-2(.238)=2.399 and the average of both of those would be [2.3105 (B)]

the depth for the inner would be 1.625-1.250= .375 while the depth of the outer would be 2.750-2= .75 and the average of those would be [(C) .5625]....now this depth is correct if we fill each cavity to the brim and each and every cavity if just plained filled.

the mean radius would be the inner plus the outer.....2/2=1 1.25/2=.625....625+1=1.625......1.625/2=  [.8125 (A)]

now another thing is for the N factor...i'm not sure if i would multiply this by two since it is for each inductor or leave it alone......for this i will use it as it is.
so from that we plug it into our equation to yield.

L = 4158.46 microHenries

and now we can calculate the capcitance at our chosen frequency to give us 40,000 volts......because if we were to add  a water capacitor with a higher capacitative reactance (Xc) than our VIC's inductive reactance (Xl) this coil would produce jackshit.....be sure to check out my calculations i have posted under my project section (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,683.105.html).....so everyone can understand how to calculate there desired frequency for there setup.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 05:20:52 am
oh one more thing when you do the math on the specs for water consumption per second at 65mph you get 92.85 miles per gallon......which i might say is very impressive.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 05:52:42 am
Kinsis,

My mistake it was the mean circ. not dia.  (dia. x Pi)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 06:22:24 am
Kinesis,

I did give you the correct radius in the #s for the (Eq 20)  With the wire I got from dankie with the Choke mean circ of 4.51375" and the ohm of 11.6k it would be  11,600 / 19.775 x 12 / 4.51375 / 14 segments = wraps per segment x 2 for biflar  = 222.6 rounded up to 224 wraps per seg. x 14

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 06:45:09 am
alright so all we have to do is replace the "N" factor with the proper amount of winds.....but not right now....i'll do it tomorrow....and tomorrow we will figure out the capacitance and the length of the electrode that is needed for this vic coil with out side being .75 wall being .0625 and inside being .5.......we can calculate all of this just from knowing the inductance of the VIC and our input power......hopefully things match up well.

Here is the equation for capacitance of a cylindrical capacitor......

L is the length
a is the inner diameter
b is the outer diameter (remember to minus the wall size .0625)
E sub 0 is E node which is our permittivity constant of 8.85 x 10^-12 farads/m or the permittivity of water which i don't know.
C is our capacitance

C = 2*pi*E0*( L / (ln (b/a)) )

hopefully tomorrow reveals some interesting results in calculations....but i need sleep.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 14:04:31 pm
This coil assy contains three bobbin areas in relationship to the core.

Two sets of 14 ea individual spiral-wrap coils electrically connected in sequential order.

There is inductance coupling of (511a xxx 511n) and (512a xxx 512n)

I am lost and have no understanding of how to do this math.

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2009, 20:06:39 pm
yeah the all in one vic is a tad to agressive.....this is why i bought a spectrum analyzer......i can just sweep to its exact point without the need for math....

plus i use a completely seperate primary and secondary.

so all my math falls down to the bifilar inductor and water capacitor.

now for the "N" factor which states "number of wraps or turns" does this mean number of turns for the primary and secondary along with the chokes or just the wraps of the bifilar chokes???.....very vague here.....i would take it since we are looking at the vic coil as one coil then the correct N would be the amount of wraps for the primary+secondary+chokes.......so once again for clarification......for chokes i would be using 224 x14 to get 3136 total for the bifilar chokes?...and for the primary i would be using 382 wraps? and for the secondary i would be using 273 x 14 = 3822.....if these are correct i will proceed with finding the inductance......also when i go to calculate the proper wfc size for this vic i will be choosing 10khz since it is reoccuring frequency in his writings, but if you have a frequency in mind i will try multiple ones.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2009, 06:41:20 am
alright so once again from the data given to me your saying that the primary has 382 wraps and the secondary has 3822 wraps (273x14)...that means with an input of 12 volts at 3.3 amps are applied on the primary then 120 volts at .33amps will be the ouput on the secondary.....

also the inductance calculated from stanley meyers equation is L =  .909 henries.....which is 909 millihenries......now Chaddoken got 43mH for his coil and core when he calculated it with the standard equation.....i have not a clue about permeability factors.....all my cores are random cores purchased of ebays and surplus stores...so i purchased an inductance meter to take care of that......now using stans equation this vic coil with the factors given is once again .909 henries......this is not correct when the values are applied.....SO I REALLY NEED CLEAR CLARIFICATION.....and i think knowing the resistance for the primary and secondary coils would also be a great help in working these bugs out....the only way .909 henries would work is if we applied 1.216 khz frequency to achieve the 40,000 volts but then are capacitance is rediculously small........and at .043 henries we can apply a frequency of 25.7khz which is a much better choice in frequency but our capacitor is even smaller!....so once again i would like the resistance values for the secondary and primary.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/freqrange.jpg)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2009, 08:33:59 am
i need a vote on what should be considered the "amount of turns" being either all the coils windings just the chokes or all the coils and just one of the chokes.....i ahve done the math to get the size of the vic and if we can get our inductance in the right area we are looking at a vic between 3-5 inches which sounds correct.....oh and on my test page where i was just showing how to do calculations if you use my C that i calculated at 10khz frequency and pop it into meyers capacitance equation it gives you a linear vic of length 4.5 inches......(typical .75 outer .5 inner wall .0625 tubes)...so that is interesting.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2009, 17:29:34 pm
are you sure dankies wires is 19 ohms a foot?  i have carpenter specs that the wire has 460ohm cir-mil/ft.. 1 milli is 9.825 times bigger then .004.. so .004 is 46.819 ohm/ft by what there specs say..   reg 302/304 wire has 27.375ohm/ft,  wouldnt stan keep it simple if it was that simple...  other alloys by wiretron close to 46.819  in .004 are 
Inconel x750 =   45.867 ohm/ft ,
Alloy 875 =          54.687 ohm/ft,
Alloy 800 =          50 ohm/ft,
Ni Cr Type A =   42.187ohm/ft.
Ni Cr Typae C= 40.625ohm/ft

outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2009, 18:06:11 pm
are you sure dankies wires is 19 ohms a foot?  i have carpenter specs that the wire has 460ohm cir-mil/ft.. 1 milli is 9.825 times bigger then .004.. so .004 is 46.819 ohm/ft by what there specs say..   reg 302/304 wire has 27.375ohm/ft,  wouldnt stan keep it simple if it was that simple...  other alloys by wiretron close to 46.819  in .004 are 
Inconel x750 =   45.867 ohm/ft ,
Alloy 875 =          54.687 ohm/ft,
Alloy 800 =          50 ohm/ft,
Ni Cr Type A =   42.187ohm/ft.
Ni Cr Typae C= 40.625ohm/ft

outlawstc

Yeah thats its resistance , 19.775 ohms per foot , its quite high .

Id stay away for the 800 stuff , way too magnetic . Dont know about the others , it needs low coercivity and high permeability .

call wiretron , its 1000 foot minimal order , they charge like 50 cents a foot .
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2009, 18:25:45 pm
dankie what he is saying is that 19 ohms a foot is low.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2009, 19:01:14 pm
according to the specs they give 19 is low..  i think low corecivity is due to silicon in the alloy? if so nicr has the same..  as for high permability i think that would be the iron..  when voltage is applied threw the wire it will not permanitly magnatize because of silcion content not allowing iron to align poles? you  want a type of resistive steel that wont become magnatized.  only in the presence of magnetic flux.?  430 does have a higher sulfer content.. i dont know what that will cause maybe more maleble?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercivity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)#Values_for_some_common_materials
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2009, 19:18:44 pm
according to the specs they give 19 is low..  i think low corecivity is due to silicon in the alloy? if so nicr has the same..  as for high permability i think that would be the iron..  when voltage is applied threw the wire it will not permanitly magnatize because of silcion content not allowing iron to align poles? you  want a type of resistive steel that wont become magnatized.  only in the presence of magnetic flux.?  430 does have a higher sulfer content.. i dont know what that will cause maybe more maleble?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coercivity

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permeability_(electromagnetism)#Values_for_some_common_materials

Yeah the 430F and FR are the free machining versions , I believe this is their only advantage , I am sure the more common 430 would work as well .

But even then , I couldnt find a coated wire seller of this .
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2009, 23:17:04 pm
alright so once again from the data given to me your saying that the primary has 382 wraps and the secondary has 3822 wraps (273x14)...that means with an input of 12 volts at 3.3 amps are applied on the primary then 120 volts at .33amps will be the ouput on the secondary.....

also the inductance calculated from stanley meyers equation is L =  .909 henries.....which is 909 millihenries......now Chaddoken got 43mH for his coil and core when he calculated it with the standard equation.....i have not a clue about permeability factors.....all my cores are random cores purchased of ebays and surplus stores...so i purchased an inductance meter to take care of that......now using stans equation this vic coil with the factors given is once again .909 henries......this is not correct when the values are applied.....SO I REALLY NEED CLEAR CLARIFICATION.....and i think knowing the resistance for the primary and secondary coils would also be a great help in working these bugs out....the only way .909 henries would work is if we applied 1.216 khz frequency to achieve the 40,000 volts but then are capacitance is rediculously small........and at .043 henries we can apply a frequency of 25.7khz which is a much better choice in frequency but our capacitor is even smaller!....so once again i would like the resistance values for the secondary and primary.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/freqrange.jpg)

Remember,this coil assy if for the injectors,which is a very small cap.But you can wrap these bobbins with any size wire or nuber of turns needed to get the inductance needed for your cell.As for the number of turns,and inductance,you must figure each coil windings seperately.You need to figure inductance for the primary by itself as well as the chokes and secondaries.Number of turns are for each coil seperately.You don't add them together.Only the chokes will be added together to get total combined inductance,that is what you put into the calculator to get resonance frequency for your cell.Permibility for the steel I'm getting is @ 500 iu.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 14, 2009, 01:01:13 am
thanks i will go over everything!
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 14, 2009, 04:04:24 am
so back from dinner i just thought to myself if we are calculating the inductance for each bobbin separately then why does stan's equation call for the mean radius?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 14, 2009, 22:45:52 pm
mean radius is a measurment  from the center line to the middle of the depth of your coil.. all measurments are shown in figure 7-10.          i have done some reseach on what A B and C variable would be for john bostics demensions of bobbin.. these calculation are for the cavities to be wound completely full. and is only acounting for 1 cavity out of 14 for each seperate coils.
PRIMARY  .030 ga
A= .875
B= 2.399
C= .0625
N=312 max
 
SECONDARY .002 ga.
A= 1.875
B= .0625
C= .375
N= 5,797 max

RESONANT SS CHARGING CHOKES  .004 GA
A= .71875
B= .1875
C= .0625
N= 690 max

max N was achieved by for example resonant choke bobbin cavity is .1875 x .0625 .. the wire is .004 so  1.875 / .004= 15 and .0626 / .004= 46..   so the .004 will stack 15 wide and 46 high if enamel doesnt add diameter to the wire.. if so you need to know its tru dia to know wind capacity.. also important is that changing wind count  changes C and A..      B will remain constant.  hope this helps. please inform me if you see other wise?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 01:28:28 am
yeah i also pondered that it could mean that the Mean average of radius would be to the center of the depth of the winding......but then we are not really sure of this until it is actually wound......i swear the easiest thing to do would be to wind the coil use an inductance meter for both bobbins......and work your math off those readings......i always use my tools since i have come across so many unknown variables......this is why i have stayed away form the multicoil VIC configuration....it is way over my head in calculating.....im a trial and error / mathematic planning type of person.....i can't brute force these so what i say is that we just wind the damn thing with the proper amount of resistance and wind the secondary and primary to give us our desired ratio.....and use and inductance meter.......i have one and i am willing to mail it out as "loan"....if anyone needs to use it when we get to that point in time......
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 02:27:32 am
This portion of the project is not my strong point, so I'm not diving into the discussion just yet.

But I do have some thoughts.

Ever hear the age old "Is the glass half empty? or half full?" ... well the Engineer says "It's twice as big as it needs to be!"

So... Stan designed these bobbins, and he's a smart guy, so why would he make it bigger than it needs to be?

"You have to learn to ask the right questions"

So what happens if we ask the question "What happens when you wind the bobbins completely full" ...

Maybe the answer is simple, and you already know, or maybe it's something that was overlooked or undiscovered. But I can't help but think that if Stan designed this thing with a certain capacity then he must have experiemented with the max capacity. Otherwise he would have did the math first, then designed the bobbins exactly to size.

Maybe he did do the math first and then designed it to it's proper size and thats what we are looking at... KISS...

KISS is telling me it is this size for a reason, so I wonder, and ask, what does the math spit out when you completely FILL these bobbins with wire?

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 03:42:19 am
This drawing shows the mean radius for the coils.  These bobbins will not be wound completely full.  This is for a 10-1 ratio.  Dynodon scaled the bobbins from the pitcures.  This has got to be very close but it's not exact.  I hope this will be helpful.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 04:05:23 am
11.6 k is around 580 ft of dankies wire..
 580 /14 = 41.42 ft in each cavity
times 2 since theres 2 wires.
so 82.84 feet in each cavity..  
having a mean diameter of   1.437"  x 3.14= 4.51 circumference..  
 82.84 ft x 12= 994.08 inches
 994.08 inches /  4.51 circumference= 220.41 winds per cavity.
knowing that you would need to be able to measure the coils demesions to find A and C if you know the depth and dementsions of your cavity C and A should be easy to find with one persicion measurement which would be the gap/void depth of bobbin cavity.
N will be the 220 winds
B is .0625

this is just a example all coils use the same method. i think secondary can be filled to the rim stans said the more winding the more voltage.. he never discouraged to much. now the stainless he says 11.6k so that will tell you the length for the stainless.  the primary will only hold 212 max for .030 ga. i say load it down and the seconday.. but hold to the 11.6k


outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 04:16:23 am
thank you john very helpful!!!!

outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 04:18:17 am
Thats the spirit  !!!!!!!
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 14:52:58 pm
Water Fuel Cell Technical Brief                     7-4

Inductor (614) and Inductor (615) of Figure (7-1) is wound or coil-wrapped in such a manner as to increase the magnetic flux intensity  between the turns of coil-wrap. The circular-spiral turns of wire is separated by an Insulated Dielectric Coating Material which forms a series of capacitors when magnetic flux-lines produces Electromagnetic Coupling Field during pulse on-time. The series resistance value is determined by ~e composition of the wire material in terms of its ohmic value per given length and diameter cross-section: Resonant Charging Chokes (614/615) 430F/FR 36 A WG (.006) stainless steel (s/s) wire equals 60 micro ohms per centimeter; Primary Coil (622) 22 A WG (.028)  copper wire equals 5.1933 ohms per pound weight; Secondary Pickup Coil (623) 35 A WG (.007)  copper wire equals 13K ohms per pound weight. "Pyre-ML" trade name "Himol" polymer coating-material is used to impart thermal and mechanical resistance to the stainless steel (s/s) wire coating; both magnet wire sizes uses solderable Nysol (Polyurethane Nylon Jacket) insulation enamel coating as a electrical shield-material ... all dielectric coatings having an effective 3KV per mil dielectric value and formulated specifically to endure automotive temperature range from _ 40 0 to 1550 C.


If we use the above wire sizes, limit the chokes to 11.6K ohms, and wind all the cavities full we would get a 17.5:1 ratio stepup between the primary and secondary.

If we used the .030 wire for the primary, limit the chokes, and filled all the cavities it would be a 20.9:1 ratio   

The larger primary wire the less heat the coil will generate.  I don't know if heat will be a factor.


Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 16, 2009, 02:06:49 am
Meyer said about the ss choke
60 micro Ohm per cm
11.6K Ohm Total
 that would mean 11600 / 0.00006 = 193333333,33 cm = 6444444,44 feet ss wire needed

Dankies 19.774 ohm is high indeed compared to what Meyer proposed :)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 17, 2009, 18:17:50 pm
your math is off,there are 6 numers to the right of the decimal point.Yours only has 5.Stan states 11.6k ohms/ft.So dankies wire measures 19.775  devided into 11.6k equals 586.5992415 feet.Thats how many feet you will need with this wire period!!! Stans papers also say circular mil,not sure what he means.
Don
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 17, 2009, 18:54:02 pm
plus wire gauge is also a factor.....which could be the c-mil.....come this summer i will be electrically inclined.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 17, 2009, 19:34:45 pm
can't find anything about c-mils in the tech brief, in which paper have you seen it?
the decimals seem ok to me, unless you want to nitpick on significant figures.

Your calculated length is correct, period yes, but I don't understand why Stan mentions 60 micro Ohm per CM length of wire, this takes too much wire for 11k6 Ohm  total.
what is the number between the parentheses based on? -> AWG (0.006)


thnx
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 17, 2009, 20:59:59 pm
This is part of a chart I have in Excel If anyone wants the file I'll email it to you.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 00:19:41 am
alan you are correct about cmil not being in the tech brief.....BUT.....as it states in the tech brief 60 micro ohms per cm fo STAINLESS STEEL....alright so that is 60 x 10^-6...or 60 e-6

now lets look at resistive wire measurements on wikipedia......
notice how stainless steel says 90 e-6 ohms per cm....or 90 micro ohms per cm

this translates into 541 ohm-cmil per ft......ohm-cmil refers to circular mils...no 36 gauage wire as dankie has has a cmil of 25.....according to american wire gauge standards (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge).....

so plug this into the equation
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/10223.png)

we want our resistance to be 11600 plus we have calculated that we will need 586.59 wraps of this wire with our current diameter size.....thus we will need a wire with a 494.4 ohm-cmil per ft.....and as in the wikipedia table stainless steel wire has 541 ohm-cmil/ft......

SO OUR MATH IS CORRECT and IN THE RIGHT RANGE!

you are applying 60 micro ohms as a length when in fact it is to be applied in accordance with the "p" factor for a circular cross section.....remember a wire is a 3 dimensional shape with volume......a simple mistake.....


here is a great website if you are still lost. (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_12/5.html)

but rest assured everything is correct so far.

the one equation that is still bothering me is (eq 19) from memo WFC 426 of the tech brief....where wa = L I squared over Z......
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 15:23:16 pm
I looked up the resistive wire wiki, now the 60 ohm per cm makes sense, it should have been written as ohm-cm (as a product, like newton-meter) not ohm/cm. (still have to verify tho).
Much appreciated, since I'm sure you're repeating yourself.

In eqn 19, Z should be a 2, don't you think?
Similar to the energy in a cap ( C * V^2 / 2)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 19:25:31 pm
well see stan uses the same variables throughout the entire tech brief......so if we were pumping in 40,000 volts at .001 amps which was converted from 12 volts at 3.3 amps (as stated in the tech brief) and our resistance was around 11,600 our Z would equal 12121.21ohms......now i don't know which current I to use.....the initial applied to the system (3.3amps) or the converted I inside the system (.001 amps)......then when he says watts per second or JOULES....i am not sure what to put here??.....i know we are using 40 watts of power total....but as for time i am completely lost.......i am trying to find what L should be equal to in order to obtain the proper amount of resistance to power.....

he seriously wrote this as if he wanted this techonlogy to be released he is telling us all the answers right here.....even though he even made a key or legend for his variables i kind of wish he was a little more specific about current.....if it was input current or converted current........cause right now if we are using 40 watts a second and an input of 3.3 amps with our Z impedance to accomplish 40,000 i am getting an inductance of 44,522.4 HENRIES.....which is rather impossible......

so anyone out there that might actually know what they're doing and could clear this up a little would be lovely.

oh and one more thing......why do we have to wind the vic in 14 different sections? what is the purpose of the sections.......once this is answered i will begin winding.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 20:24:57 pm
If the Z is a 2, then plugging in 40 watt and .001 amp, L would result in 80000000 H lol
And again Z = 2, I =  3.3A, this gives L = 7.346H

Don't forget the reactance of Z is frequency dependent resistance.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrical_impedance

If you do calculations on the primary side of the transformer, use 3.3 A.
.001 A should be used on the secondary side (secondary spool + chokes ).

And btw, maybe obvious to you all, but I didn't see it before like this
3.3A is the result of the .001A requirement in the secondary. Without amp inhibiting, .001 rises, and so will 3.3.
.001 is used only for storing energy in the sec. coil + chokes which forms 40kV.
And 40000 x .001 = 12 x 3.3

watt = joules PER second
watt-second = joule

14 sections, because you don't want to wind the chokes in both directions, like the primary, but why is the secondary wound similar?
Maybe someone else can explain it better.

Hope this is of some use.
Pls correct what seems incorrect.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 23:02:44 pm
when i said stan used the same variables throughout the tech brief it was to decrease confusion such as Vt which means total voltage on the system. and Vc voltage in the capacitor and Vl voltage on the inductor.......Z was constant......so once you figured out what Z was from the equation stan gave for conversion factors was Z equals Vt (total voltage) over amperage.......now if we want 40,000 volts to be our total voltage and start with an input current of 3.3 amps at 12 volts.....we will need an impedance factor of 12121.21 Ohms which is our Z........so to achieve 40,000 volts from a 40 watt power source we need a minimum of Z = 12121.21 ohms.......remeber the equation....

(http://www.intmath.com/Complex-numbers/Image2.gif)

this is why stan also said that inductance must be larger than capacitance.....which had everyone thinking "you can't compare henries to farads!!!".....but he meant the reactance of inducatance and the reactance of capacitance...

alright.....so about 6 minutes later after stating the Z =12121.21 ohms for eq 19 i am not sure that the entire Z should be applied......hmmmm......i dont really know at this point BUT ....this equation on inductance reactance is by far THE MOST IMPORTANT PIECE OF INFORMATION in order to get your inductor to put out an equal second pulse and push voltage beyond applied voltage....i am going to look over this section again and again with new eyes....the electron inhibiting effect.


EDIT:
and the amperage coming out of the secondary coil will not be .001 amps......it will be something around theoretically (i dont have time to actually figure it out) .2 or .1 amps......then when it goes through the chokes it will be suppressed to .001 and sent into hte water cell...before you were saying that the seconday would be giving off .001 into the chokes.....but look at stans patent where he tells you how to make a vic on 2 seperate cores he says how many turns of wire to be used for the toroidal core on the primary and secondary and when you do the math it will take a 12 volt 50 percent duty cycle (6 volts) at 3.3 amps and turn it into something like 40-50 votls at .5 amps or less if you include resistance due to wire gauge.....still .5 amps is not .001 amps.......001 will never come out of the secondary only the chokes, or else that would defeat the purpose of the inductors all together.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 23:21:20 pm

this is why stan also said that inductance must be larger than capacitance.....which had everyone thinking "you can't compare henries to farads!!!".....but he meant the reactance of inducatance and the reactance of capacitance...


I agree on that statement, Kinesis!

br
Steve
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 23:47:30 pm
hey! i think i got what is going on in the equation.....mathematically amperage does head as close to zero as possible....but of course that is not going to happen.......basically what we need to know is joules to eV (electron volt) conversion....simple internet thing. (http://www.unitconversion.org/energy/joules-to-electron-volts-conversion.html)....then take that electron volt and divide it by the charge of an electron (1.6e -19 or 1.6 x 10^ -19) which will leave you with the voltage it has stored (energy really).......which theoretically wants to be incredibly high say like 79kv......but of course will not be due to physical constraints of electronics.......so this is good really good.....Z is in fact 12121.21......inductance will be what ever we measure from and inductance meter or from calculating with the "L=" equation provided by stan....i used the VL equation (eq 6 memo wfc 420) to determine my voltage than converted it to eV than to joules and worked it into equation 19.......everything does add up.......

IF I AM WRONG PLEASE CORRECT ME IF YOU NOTICE ANYTHING......always appreciated.

this is looking good!

but once again i am finding no reason of creating seperate sections for the bifilar chokes...please someone state your justifications on this....i have read what you have wrote alan but that does not seem right since we are to wind the chokes bifilar with both chookes being in each of the sections......this is why stan talks about the coating on the wires actually acting like a dielectric material....this tells us that the wires are together......so i honestly feel that the 14 different sections or so are not necessary.......
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 02:12:42 am
see what do you mean spark over??? if it would spark over without sections then it would clearly melt through the coating and then spark right over to the negative choke (since it's bifilar) inside the first section shorting it out...so what's the difference.....so that understanding can't be right......remember static electricity will not "spark" over 11.6kohms......i'll search the tech brief for a reasoning on this......but i still await another answer or maybe im wrong in my thinking....but either way kreep the reasons coming.....i think it might have to do with the inductance from the inner bobbin to the bifilar chokes bobbin...maybe it spreads the magnetic field out more evenly....i dont know and that sounds like a really bad guess......i am still building this on my 2 seperate cores.......but before i go winding the bifilar chokes with the wire i need to clear everything up.

thank you for your response donald
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 06:12:51 am

but once again i am finding no reason of creating seperate sections for the bifilar chokes...please someone state your justifications on this....i have read what you have wrote alan but that does not seem right since we are to wind the chokes bifilar with both chookes being in each of the sections......this is why stan talks about the coating on the wires actually acting like a dielectric material....this tells us that the wires are together......so i honestly feel that the 14 different sections or so are not necessary.......

Kines,

This is from the brief without all the References notes

Inductor (614) and Inductor (615) is wound or coil-wrapped in such a manner as to increase the magnetic flux intensity between the turns of coil-wrap. The circular-spiral turns of wire is separated by an Insulated Dielectric Coating Material which forms a series of capacitors when magnetic flux-lines produces Electromagnetic Coupling Field during pulse on-time. The series resistance value is determined by ~e composition of the wire material in terms of its ohmic value per given length and diameter cross-section: Resonant Charging Chokes 430F/FR 36 AWG (.006) stainless steel (s/s) wire equals 60 micro ohms per centimeter; Primary Coil 22 AWG (.028) copper wire equals 5.1933 ohms per pound weight; Secondary Pickup Coil (623) 35 AWG (.007) copper wire equals 13K ohms per pound weight. "Pyre-ML" trade name "Himol" polymer coating-material is used to impart thermal and mechanical resistance to the stainless steel (s/s) wire coating; both magnet wire sizes uses solderable Nysol (Polyurethane Nylon Jacket) insulation enamel coating as a electrical shield-material ... all dielectric coatings having an effective 3KV per mil dielectric value and formulated specifically to endure automotive temperature range from _ 40C  to 155C.

Inductance Reactance occurs when resistance, capacitance , and Inductance interacts together during D.C. Pulsing. Inductance Reactance not only increases voltage across water-capacitor  beyond applied Voltage Potential but, also, establishes "Impedance Field" across Inductors  which acts and performs as Resonant Charging Chokes once placed on opposite side of capacitor forming Resonant voltage Effect Circuit. Both Inductors are Bifilar wound in equal length to optimize the electromagnetic field strength in equal electromagnetic intensity to encourage and promote "Electron Bounce" phenomenon while adjusting input signal Pulse-Frequency to "tune-in" to the "dielectric property" of water causing amp flow to be reduce to a minimum value while allowing voltage potential to go toward infinity if the electronic components would allow it to happen. Inductance Field performs "Capacitance Charging Effect" , while, at the same time, Inductor Field restricts electron movement through VIC Impedance Network Circuit since Inductance Field locks onto Electrons Magnetic Field to block the movement of electron flow toward Positive Voltage Potential thereby preventing and inhibiting electronflow to pass through or arc-over capacitor water-gap such electron blocking action is herein called "Electron Inhibiting Effect'". At elevated.or higher amplitude voltage levels, primary electromagnetic coupling field transmitted by way of Inductance Pulsing-Core as to VIC Coil Assembly enters into and passes through both Inductors  simultaneously and offers not only further electron-flow restriction to both Inductor Chokes but automatically increases voltage potential of opposite voltage intensity of equal magnitude across Resonant Cavity overcoming any potential loss of pulse signal due to resistive interaction of either or both Inductor Cores wire-material to the formation of Inductance Fields during reoccurring pulse on-time. Electron Inhibiting Effect in direct relationship to Voltage Enhancement Effect is accomplished since stainless steel 430F/FR wire-material is "Electromagnetic Inductive" to incoming electromagneticflux-lines (without (s/s) inductor-wire-coil becoming permanently magnetized ... paralleling and performing the same electromagnetic characteristic of copper wire when it comes to magnetic field reformation that encourages, brings-on, and perform Voltage Inducement Process without amp "influxing"  between Positive Voltage Potential and Negative Voltage Potential electtically applied across Resonant Cavities. In-Line Circuit Components Lengthening Inductor lengths applies an even higher Voltage Potential across Resonant Capacitor since Inductance Reactance "Stores" Energy
Inductance Reactance directly determines "Stored" Energy  Which is controlled by
input Voltage Potential attenuated or varied by way of Voltage Amplitude and/or Gated Pulse-Frequency or both.

There is an inductance coupling between each resonant cavity of the resonant coils (14) of this coil assy that require them to be seperate sections.

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 07:20:00 am
W/E it is with the chokes we wont see anything unless we find a proper oscillator circuit .

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 07:48:26 am

There is an inductance coupling between each resonant cavity of the resonant coils (14) of this coil assy that require them to be seperate sections.



inductance coupling of what?....the primary and secondary magnetic field?......if i am making mine on two seperate cores what would be the point for individual segments.....i remember in his patent where he talks about vic size and shape he doesn't mention anything about segments jsut 100 wraps of bifilar 24 gauge wire about an inductor core.....and that if you increase length you increase voltage output........i really hope this is right god forbid i do short this out becuase of the damn sections.......but i don't think it will happen....hope*
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 14:48:03 pm
i think it might have to do with the inductance from the inner and outer bobbin to the bifilar chokes bobbin...maybe it spreads the magnetic field out more evenly....
absolutely!
Try think of a better way to wind the bifilar so that it captures all the primary induction lines, wound uni-directional (so formed kV HV doesnt couple with LV, Cd is small, but many of em), KISS.

the sections could also be a part of the KISS approach, equal sections, easily expendable.
the sections remind me of  pseudo pancake coils....  in parallel.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 14:53:32 pm
"There is an inductance coupling between each resonant cavity of the resonant coils (14) of this coil assy that require them to be seperate sections."

as seen in fig 6-1 (511a - n) and (512a - n)
 
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 16:17:13 pm
I believe the seperate segments are required to allow the coil to charge.  Using the inductance between segments to hold and increase the charge of the gated - pulsed - DC current.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2009, 01:43:22 am
thank you alan and john....i think i like alan's explanation.......so just to be safe and follow stan.......i will create a bobbin for it with some nylon spacers.....
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2009, 17:14:59 pm
chokes,

1- The current that an inductor can handle depends on the size of the wire. The inductance
does not; it is a function of the number of turns in the coil, the diameter of the
coil, and the overall shape of the coil.

2- In general, inductance of a coil is directly proportional to the number of turns of
wire. Inductance is also directly proportional to the diameter of the coil. The length of
a coil, given a certain number of turns and a certain diameter, has an effect also: the
longer the coil, the less the inductance

3-Very small coils, with few turns of wire, produce small inductances, in which the
current changes quickly and the voltages are small. Huge coils with ferromagnetic
cores, and having many turns of wire, have large inductances, in which the current
changes slowly and the voltages are large

4- As long as the magnetic fields around inductors do not interact, inductances in series
add like resistances in series. The total value is the sum of the individual values. It’s important
to be sure that you are using the same size units for all the inductors when you
add their values.

straight from the books fellas,

-all in all we know that current is determined by size of wire used.
-inductance is determined by geometrical demensions of coil  and has direct relationship to number of winds.
-the longer geometrical coil the less inductance.. thats why 6-1 magnifies in individual cavities it is considered a 16th of an inch inductor. and its like having 14 seperate chokes in series. its also why the choke in his water polarization unit is small.
-Huge coils with ferromagnetic cores, having many turns of wire, have large inductances, in which the current changes slowly and the voltages are large

note of number 4- As long as the magnetic fields around inductors do not interact, inductances in series
add like resistances in series..
they are definatly interacting which would take away resistance in 6-1. this i beleave is why the all in one unit requires resistive wire.  then again depending on how the choke wire is wired you can have 2 seperate wires (Bifiliar) flowing the same way?

this is not my thoughts on how i think the chokes work.. it is textbook material. hope this helps

outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2009, 18:01:35 pm
*********choke core materials*******

Powdered-iron cores are common at radio frequencies. Ferrite has a higher permeability
than powdered iron, causing a greater concentration of magnetic flux lines
within the coil. Ferrite is used at lower radio frequencies and at audio frequencies, as
well as at medium and high radio frequencies.
The main trouble with ferromagnetic cores is that, if the coil carries more than a
certain amount of current, the core will saturate. This means that the ferromagnetic
material is holding as much flux as it possibly can. Any further increase in coil current
will not produce a corresponding increase in the magnetic flux in the core. The result is
that the inductance changes, decreasing with coil currents that are more than the critical
value.

********Permeability tuning************
Solenoidal, or cylindrical, coils can be made to have variable inductance by sliding ferromagnetic
cores in and out of them. This is a common practice in radio communications.
The frequency of a radio circuit can be adjusted in this way, as you’ll learn later in
this book.
Because moving the core in and out changes the effective permeability within a coil
of wire, this method of tuning is called permeability tuning. The in/out motion can be
precisely controlled by attaching the core to a screw shaft, and anchoring a nut at one
end of the coil (Fig. 10-7). As the screw shaft is rotated clockwise, the core enters the
coil, so that the inductance increases. As the screw shaft is rotated counterclockwise,
the core moves out of the coil and the inductance decreases.

outlawstc


Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2009, 18:38:21 pm
Filter chokes
The largest values of inductance that can be obtained in practice are on the order of
several henrys. The primary use of a coil this large is to smooth out the pulsations in direct
current that result when ac is rectified in a power supply. This type of coil is known
as a filter choke

Inductors at radio frequency
The radio frequencies range from 9 kHz to well above 100 GHz. At the low end of this
range, inductors are similar to those at audio frequencies. As the frequency increases,
cores having lower permeability are used. Toroids are quite common up through about
30 MHz


Inductors at audio frequencies range in value from a few millihenrys up to about 1 H.
They are almost always toroidally wound, or are wound in a pot core, or comprise part
of an audio transformer.
Inductors can be used in conjunction with moderately large values of capacitance
in order to obtain audio tuned circuits. However, in recent years, audio tuning has
been taken over by active components, particularly integrated circuits


***********notes*********

toroid and pot core chokes will not work.. they can only be used in a pre determined circuit that doesnt need to be tuned..  stan is using a tunable negative choke. ruling them out. i know of two ways to make a tunable choke.. one is to finely sand a small line from end to end and use a copper rod that can slide from end to end..  the copper rod is attached to secondary neg along with neg choke.. the other way is shown on last post.. allowing your ferro rod to be adjustabe.   the one in the pic would work really good for having ability of electronic control by means of servo.

outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2009, 18:46:41 pm
Good theory, outlawstc !!

Very usefull and good readable!

br
Steve
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2009, 19:28:18 pm


note of number 4- As long as the magnetic fields around inductors do not interact, inductances in series
add like resistances in series..
they are definatly interacting which would take away resistance in 6-1. this i beleave is why the all in one unit requires resistive wire.  then again depending on how the choke wire is wired you can have 2 seperate wires (Bifiliar) flowing the same way?



in the tech brief stan states that the interaction between the primary/secondary coil and the bifilar coil adds to the resistance.......so they are most likely matched.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2009, 19:36:16 pm
The unit of capacitance is an expression of the ratio between the amount of current
flowing and the rate of voltage change across the plates of a capacitor. A capacitance of
one farad, abbreviated F, represents a current flow of one ampere while there is a potential-
difference increase or decrease of one volt per second. A capacitance of one
farad also results in one volt of potential difference for an electric charge of one
coulomb.

****** note*******

our water fuel cell i think need to be in parallel  since we are trying to create a charge inside the cap without current.. for series to work it must use current to transfer from cell to cell
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 21, 2009, 04:34:17 am
welp you guys this information i have come across here is quite interesting.. i sugest that everyone read it and understand this is what we want.

Ferroresonance is a general term applied to a wide variety of interactions between capacitors and iron-core inductors that result in unusual voltages and/or currents. In linear circuits, resonance occurs when the capacitive reactance equals the inductive reactance at the frequency at which the circuit is driven. Iron-core inductors have a nonlinear characteristic and have a range of inductance values. Therefore, there might not be a case where the inductive reactance is equal to the capacitive reactance, but yet very high and damaging overvoltages occur.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferroresonance
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2009, 20:27:02 pm
i have been searching to try and find a good ferrite for winding choke for the alternator rotary version..
i came across one that was kinda interesting.. it is a delrin covered ferrite..  i think stan may have used this and not mentioned it.. if your positive choke is ripping out all its electrons.. the ones in the ferrite will most likely want into the wire.. thats why it must be highly insulated. to prevent dielectric failure from occuring.

CHOKE, RF PLATE 90 uHY @ 0.8 ADC
1.8-30 MHZ ON GROOVED 5/8" DIA DELRIN

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2009, 04:59:22 am
anyone heard from dynodon.....i tried to email him but the email bounced back....and a charging inductor like stan refers to is designed like a filter inductor.....which is divided into sections.....the sections are a necessary also so the windings are constantly in one direction only.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 03:06:32 am
In eqn 19, Z should be a 2, don't you think?
Similar to the energy in a cap ( C * V^2 / 2)

If the Z is a 2, then plugging in 40 watt and .001 amp, L would result in 80000000 H lol
And again Z = 2, I =  3.3A, this gives L = 7.346H

ALAN absolutely correct!!! Z it a typo I AM AN IDIOT it is 2 and not Z DAMN DAMN DAMN....wow that one slipped by me real bad......plus in your second quote you put in watts instead of joules!......w is watts seconds or joules...not watts........these damn variables and typos agarhaghag.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 13:15:48 pm
Oops, you're right, my 2nd comment is incorrect.

It is clearly a written Z, but if it was meant to be a Z, meyer would have explained the variable like all other variables.
The brief is full with typo's :)

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 15:12:10 pm


outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 19:00:33 pm


outlawstc
invaluable
thanks
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 19:19:22 pm
no problem
the truth is there you just have to find it... i suggest if this video is confusing then you need to watch it, from there you gotta learn to ask the right question.. that is determined by ones self  prior knowlege. and i tell ya what, we have somthing that stan never had for aquiring his knowlege from the questions he asked.. the world wide web.  computers are a 2 demensional advantage.. they alow you to jump from 2d-2d planes in one available spot called the screen..by a single click.  imagine all the books he had... pdfs are the shizzet and video


outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 19:55:24 pm
now here is what is great......that little video is a nice simple RLC series resonance W00t!.......

stan eve nshows it like this.....

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/resistiveresonance.jpg)

but here in the stanley meyer wolrd......his one inductor alone has capacitance and Inductance.......that means there is a resonance at which the inductor works perfectly (i think it's a parallel resonance)........then we have that whole she-bang in series with our capacitor......since i have not found a way to include this capactive effet of bifilar windings and inductor power storage i have my spectrum analyzer.

and the one thing that screws all of this MIT  video up is the fact that it is DC resonance with a Diode and the resonance only exists becuase of gating!...the minute you put a diode in a system BAM no more resoance but if you gate it BAM RESONANCE....instead of the capacitor naturally releasing it's energy into the inductor which becomes full and releases it into the capacitor ALL NATURALLY and very pendulum like with each input pulse adding to it's strength we use gating....you can think of it liek manual transmission where before it was more of an automatic transmission.......now with gating we gate right when the capacitor reaches it's highest fill level and then drop the pulse.....simulating the resoanance between inductor and capcitor in a manual FORCED manner........no one has made a lecture on this yet.....frankly becuase i think no one has thought of a manual resonance.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 21:12:29 pm
Yeah, everything is handled as sinelike in nature, ok for analysis for us I think.

The lecturer talks about resonance when I is max, and V is lowest, he also shows the resonance curve (@ 9:30 mins).
we are looking for the opposite, Vmax and Imin.
For max current, Imax, (XL - Xc) is small, and the reactance goes to zero @ resonance (reactance = frequency dependent resistance to current) (@12mins)
For Imin, (XL - Xc) is big(gest).
for this reason meyer said the reactance of the watercap must be way smaller than the reactance of the inductor. (Page 7-10)
I'll give a shot later for a Vmax freqresponse curve.

BUT, (just got this idea):
We want to know the freq @ which the coils are @ res and the cap is not: max power is converted in the bifilar (as an effect it creates the high voltage we want), the HV is felt by the caps (waterresistance Re is still there).
Just like vibrating string shown later in the lecture, we want the nodes but with its right end loose and swings @ the biggest amplitude which also happens to be @ waterfreq..
max power to coils, no power to cap, freq is somehow @ dielectric freq .

just a thought, could be all wrong  :P
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2009, 23:26:11 pm
think about this theory

 stan allways labels his  pulse sequence a-n  there are 13 seperate winds per phase in a alternator. which i think with different rpms of the rotor winding chages the hertz output of the ac signal.. if you look at the design of the rotors triangle poles you can see how it is forming the sine wave do to its geometrical pole shift .

by going with this you will understand that a higher rpm will create a higher frequency .  a nice variable to have when trying to intune voltage to meet required fuel gas production.. since when rpms of motor go up it is proportional to the change in rotor speed
everyones talking about freq gens and what not.. i think vic 6-1 used a input straight from alternator with a gating system..to gate the variavble frequency gen( alternator)  and for 6-1 you dont have to rewind the alternator there probly a way to tap into it since 6-1 is using 0-12 volts right?  and the gate would be the only variable for gas production.. i think that gate would need only a 1 time adjustment.. kinda like tuning a carborator. some cars would need more voltage for more gas production.. thats all determined by vics output with 0-12 input.

another thing to realize is the fact that curent flow is one way..  when a polarity switch happens  copper atoms flop and change direction in regular ac pulse........ this rapid switch at high frequency is what causes heat in resistance.. i dont think the chokes will get that hot under the right operating environments...  in order to get a negative pulse you must force an excess of electrons then required in a givin space.. by the colapse of the negative with pulse sync it doesnt change atomic orientation at all. because the falling is of the extra electrons. it  wont effect them there orientaion will remain constant atomicaly this allows there vortex to be constant in one direction..

with the sync pulse you no longer require a tunable negative.. since it wont matter in a balanced pulse system of equal intensity...  stan shows a resonant cavity in his injector schematics, i think it is a the steam resonator.. i also think he uses it to produce clean water for injection... there is alot of stuff  in water i dont think you want running threw your motor so it would make since to do that.


outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 01:30:57 am

The lecturer talks about resonance when I is max, and V is lowest, he also shows the resonance curve (@ 9:30 mins).
we are looking for the opposite, Vmax and Imin.


alan in order to get v max and I min it has to be parallel resonance........not series resonance.......series resonance will create high current......

so here is another thought....what if the bifilar chokes having (capacitance) forms a parallel LC circuit within the inductor itself.......so the inductor is creating low current and a high voltage output.......this is then in LC series with the water capacitor.....

but once again as stan said that XL must be larger than XC which means that resonance between the water capacitor and bifi inductor doesn't actually take place.....XL would have to EQUAL XC in order for their to be resonance between the WFC and the bifi inductor.....i will try and find the quote of him saying that.....one moment.

and outlaw......remember that alot of the incoming pulses are square wave pulses at 50 percent duty cycle.......

now there is an alternator VIC method.......i forgot where but it's in one of the papers.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 03:22:18 am
ladys and gents,
have you ever had a teacher give you a quiz with like 30 multiple chioce questions..u  fill out all the questions to get to the last one that says now that you are done reading over this put your pencil down and wait for the teach.. the directions were to read over it first.. but instead were allways in a hurry and dont care to take the time to do so.. lol..
i think you will enjoy this post let me know what you think.

tab 39 under mode of operability last page of the water fuel tech.

outlawstc

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 03:55:04 am
ladys and gents,
have you ever had a teacher give you a quiz with like 30 multiple chioce questions..u  fill out all the questions to get to the last one that says now that you are done reading over this put your pencil down and wait for the teach.. the directions were to read over it first.. but instead were allways in a hurry and dont care to take the time to do so.. lol..
i think you will enjoy this post let me know what you think.

tab 39 under mode of operability last page of the water fuel tech.

outlawstc



I'm afraid I dont understand that coil , sorry friend .

It is made with an close EI core , see the reference to its core .
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 04:01:29 am
Looks like on that diagram, a cell was meant to be connected inline with the primary. and maybe the secondary was for the injectors or ionizer.. who knows??
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 04:19:31 am
Looks like on that diagram, a cell was meant to be connected inline with the primary. and maybe the secondary was for the injectors or ionizer.. who knows??

Electrojolt , one time you told me you connected 2 transroemers together + to + and you noticed it "ionized the air" ??

Explain more plz , that "non-voltage" ionized the air ?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 05:15:20 am
You miss-undertood

I used 2 TV transformers to create about 50KV potential between water.

so the Positive of one transformer was on one insolated plate, and the negative of the other transformer was on the other isolated plate.

the other 2 wires were just floating, not connected to anything, and it ionized the Air, I could smell it.

I also connected these two flowing wires to ground, to each other, only one to ground, the other to ground, using chokes, bifilar chokes, smoked some chokes. everything I could think of.

I did countless tests with HV and isolated electrodes. Not even one tini bouble. So if some people claim breaking water using isolated plates/tube they either have leaking insolation or they lying.

By the way, why do you think my screen name is Electrojolt ?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 05:32:33 am
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,897.msg8244.html#msg8244

what is the meaning of this waveform ???

I believe the answer to Meyers lies with this .

Included here is a pff written by Tom Bearden , it is hidden by all the pics .

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 06:17:17 am
outlaw i can assure you those are in reference to gated pulse trains.....but they are still 50 percent duty cycle pulses going through.....in meyers work this is stated about 98 percent of the time.....and in two photos it shows other wise but if you read the text on those areas it is cleared up.....the images are wrong for 2 even the other images you posted in that reply were 50 percent duty cycle gated......

from what i have read with the frequency being between 0-10khz he has now said what the frequency is that he uses.......i will try to work these backwards to find out the inductance needed to acheieve this.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/NUMBERS1.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/NUMBERS4.jpg)

the diode type needed.....i once bought a diode that was to replace one of his mentioned diodes from the patent but it never worked.......i still have it since i am unsure if it activates only at high voltages.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/NUMBERS2.jpg)

THIS STATEMENT HERE SHOWS THAT RESONANCE IS THE DOUBLE PULSE FREQUENCY HITTING THE CAPACITOR AND NOT THE FREQUENCY GATED.....IT STATES THAT THE RESONANCE IS SEPERATE FROM THE GATING.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/NUMBERS3.jpg)


this entire thing is an important read....basically saying that to consume 5 gallons in one hour you need more pulses hitting the water molecule aka higher frequency (more pulses)...with a higher frequency the water dissasociates faster at resonance.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/NUMBERS5.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/NUMBERS6.jpg)

and once again stating the exact measurements of the tube cell...


SO WITH THIS FREQUENCY GIVEN FOR RESONANCE AND THE EXACT TUBE LENGTH WE CAN REVERSE WORK THIS TO FIND THE INDUCTANCE HE USED TO ACHIEVE RESONANCE.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 08:22:28 am
so who wants to know the secret lol  i beleave i hold the answer to understanding rotary vic once and for all.  i will explain when i get off work tomorrow gotta get some sleep.  your really gonna like what i have to say because it fixes all problems of understanding.. at least i hope so lol.


outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 16:48:16 pm
ladys and gents,
have you ever had a teacher give you a quiz with like 30 multiple chioce questions..u  fill out all the questions to get to the last one that says now that you are done reading over this put your pencil down and wait for the teach.. the directions were to read over it first.. but instead were allways in a hurry and dont care to take the time to do so.. lol..
i think you will enjoy this post let me know what you think.

tab 39 under mode of operability last page of the water fuel tech.

outlawstc


Yeah, no step-up transformer needed, only bifilars in cascade, dual layered with copper and s/s.
http://www.tfcbooks.com/tesla/1892-12-21.htm
"The effect of the increased impedance is strikingly illustrated in the two experiments of Prof. Bjerknes when copper is deposited upon an iron wire, and next iron upon a copper wire.  Considerable thickness of copper deposit was required in the former experiment, but very little thickness of iron in the latter, as should be expected."
I guess this quote applies to the illustration: copperwire deposit on the s/s wire to increase impedance.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 17:10:09 pm

The lecturer talks about resonance when I is max, and V is lowest, he also shows the resonance curve (@ 9:30 mins).
we are looking for the opposite, Vmax and Imin.


alan in order to get v max and I min it has to be parallel resonance........not series resonance.......series resonance will create high current......

so here is another thought....what if the bifilar chokes having (capacitance) forms a parallel LC circuit within the inductor itself.......so the inductor is creating low current and a high voltage output.......this is then in LC series with the water capacitor.....

Makes sense
Something like this?

(you also found it yourself i c )
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 17:52:46 pm
so who wants to know the secret lol  i beleave i hold the answer to understanding rotary vic once and for all.  i will explain when i get off work tomorrow gotta get some sleep.  your really gonna like what i have to say because it fixes all problems of understanding.. at least i hope so lol.


outlawstc

Bring it all on, mr Outlaw!
Brian and I are one big ear!

br
Steve
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 20:32:22 pm
so what kinda prize do i get?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 20:54:56 pm
yeah alan since stanley meyers LC circuit or (resonant charging choke) is a LC SERIES SERIES SERIES circuit that means that at resonant frequency it will have high current........but i think that is the purpose in order to store energy in it's magnetic field.......

so although stanley talks about voltage going towards infinity and current diving towards zero that would have to be a parallel resonance......and stan's circuit is SERIES RESONANCE........i have ordered all my cables to connect everything......also i rewound my copper vic into sections.......it when from an inductance of 1.9mh to 2.9 mh just by wrapping it seperate sections......i also shorted it with around 3kv.........it shorted in multiple places at multiple times.......so just to let you know sections have nothing to do with preventing it from shorting out......because it did anyways.......the sections actually increase inductance.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 21:21:45 pm
ok ok ok .. i have finished my photo shop drwings.. ..  now you guys can see what stan was doing...   its genius. let me know what you think..   


outlawstc

lets show them zombies
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 21:50:04 pm
yeah alan since stanley meyers LC circuit or (resonant charging choke) is a LC SERIES SERIES SERIES circuit that means that at resonant frequency it will have high current........but i think that is the purpose in order to store energy in it's magnetic field.......

I know now :) LC parallel stops all current @ resonant freq, also called a band stop filter, forgot it.
previous post of mine was a reaction to your suggestion of a parallel LC circuit inside the chokes, it looks like there is, look at fig 7-8.

Compare:
LC series: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/7/e/c/7ecc6732ce1672e15cb0c8967da0ae41.png)
to eq1 (2 and 3)
Z series = ( Xc - Xl ) 
Xc = 1/(2 pi f c )
Xl = 2 pi f L

(2 pi f = w)

Techbrief seems in error, or am I forgetting something?


kinesis, you are right about chokes behaving as parallel RLC circuits:

Inductance Reactance (Rs - Cd - FL) 
Inductance Reactance  (Resonance?) occurs when resistance (Rs), capacitance (Cd), and Inductance (FL)
interacts together during D.C. Pulsing.

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 01:00:04 am
ok how good your imagination?

a alternator has 6 positve pole and 6 negative poles coupling each other.. from a side view of the rotor you can see the triangular poles resemble sine waves up and downs... so lets just say for one rotation it is capable of making 6 full 360 degree sine waves...  for it to make one rotation in exactly 1 second. will produce 6 hertz.. meaning 6 cycles.. one cycle is a 360 degree phase rotation.. you made 6 in one turn!!.. so now lets think about frequency and resonating ..   by acceleration rpm rises for crank and alterator.. speeding and slowing down   will change the frequency... so lets say a alternator is running at 3000 rpm if this is correct 3000 X 6(hertz per rotation.). your output frequency will be18000 hertz   if hertz frequency variable is that simple would you nut ur pants?  .. 5500 rpm =33khz.. ohh its gettin good lord lol. so im thinkin you only need to pulse primary with a gate and variable amplitude.... hmm interesting huh. those 2 variable should  allow proper adjustments for installation in multiple aplications.. like a 350 motor may get the same gate pulse as a constant, but voltage amplitude will change proprtional to acceleration by uppring freq in alternator .... so now lets say you want to put the same unit on a volks wagon.. due to lower fuel consumption the gate is what will change to acomidate needs... a alternator is harmonic because it puts of balanced potentials .. so i would say its a self resonant wave producer.. the vic sync pulse is like a hydralic pump.. electrons being the fluid.. the pump is constantly removing electrons from positive choke and putting them in the negative choke. while the stainless positive coil is giving its electrons to primary winding in exchange for holes aka positive charge.. those electrons are entering on positvie side of the coil so they got to make there way to the other side adding effeciancy to the positve pulse train 49a-49n




outlawstc
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 01:30:05 am
so?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 04:52:02 am
Z series = ( Xc - Xl ) 
Techbrief seems in error, or am I forgetting something?

yeah he later corrects himself in (eq 24) of Memo WFC 426

the Z impedance equation is always XL-XC never XC-XL......

Now as you were saying about figure 7-8.....the resonant charging effect is the entire inductor in series with resistor while having capacitance and resistance......FL1 and FL2 is the magnetic field that allows for the electron bounce phenomenon to occur.......this is the money shot.......understanding figure 7-5 and figure 7-8 will give us what we are looking for......i am getting all of my adpaters and cables in....so here it comes.....i will be able to find resonance finally by performing frequency sweeps then once i find the numbers i will do the math backwards to see what we were misunderstanding.....becuase from the math i do now at the frequencies i use....everything is perfect.......just not seeing amperage around .001 and voltage around 1kv.....i will do the math from the above photos i posted earlier.

TO OUTLAW:

i have no idea what is going on. BUT i always say that it should work EXACTLY AS THE PATENT LOOKS.....this method might work but i cannot tell from looking at it.....if naything i think that if it does work it is by far too complex and can be worked down into stans circuit......stan had it as simple as possible.......and that's what he used.....i am not sure about your alternative way (it may work) but once again i have no idea.....so to stay safe i just stick with what stan wrote......if anythign try out your circuit.....but it seems like alot of winding and no where in the papers does it say anything about 2 bifilar wound cores......it says L1 AND L2 ARE BIFILAR WOUND about an inductor core......L1 being only one coil.......L2 being another single coil........there are no hints to L1 AND L2 being each bifilar and each consisting of 2 coils........

BUT HEY THIS COULD WORK.....i just dont know how to tell.......it's complex to me.

but that is my response hopefully someone else can shed better light on it.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 07:17:27 am
alright so we know what the resonant equation is.....and we know how to find capcitance from specific dimensions.......well from this iamge alone we are given alot of information into stans setup.....
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/NUMBERS1.jpg)

so if we take those dimensions (also knowing that he has stated wall size of .0625 inches in many places) and apply them to our capcitance equation we get 94.583 pF....or 9.4583 e-11 farads.....we know that one of stans resonant frequencies used from teh above image was 5khz......or 5,000 Hz.....so let's reverse this in our resonanace equation......
(http://sub.allaboutcircuits.com/images/12091.png)

we get approximately 10.7 HENRIES.......that is huge.....

and even further.....If you have the book THE ARRL HANDBOOK FOR RADIO AMATEURS then go to section 6 and look for the inductance capacitance table........when this capacitor and inductor resonate at 5khz our Z impedance will be over 100,000 Ohms.....

AND ALL OF THIS INFORMATION IS CORRECT........this is startling.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 07:26:45 am
HERE IS THE TABLE FROM THE BOOK MENTIONED ABOVE.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/RESONANCE.jpg)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 08:29:59 am

"Opposite polarity Voltage Wave burst (1010) of Figure (10-5) as to Dynamic Voltage
Stimulation (770B) of Figure (8-1) is simply produced when Programmable Variable Pulse-Width
Pulse-Train Waveform (49a xxx 49n) is allowed to be electrically transmitted through and beyond
/ Resonant Charging Chokes Stages (56/62a xx 56/62n + SS56/62a xxx SS56/62n)"



Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 08:42:20 am
hi outlawstc
ok how good your imagination?

so lets say a alternator is running at 3000 rpm if this is correct 3000 X 6(hertz per rotation.). your output frequency will be18000 hertz   if hertz frequency variable is that simple would you nut ur pants?  .. 5500 rpm =33khz..

outlawstc

If  an a 6 pole alternator is running at 3000rpm
3000 revolutions in 1 minute
3000 x 6poles = 18000 sinewaves in 1 minute
18000 / 60       =  300 sinewaves in 1 second
therefore 300hz  ;)


Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 08:45:02 am
don't get confused now......remember the primary and secondary islation transformer is bifilar wound notice the dots on the isolated pulsing transformer that is made up of magnetic copper wire......
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/orientationofvic.jpg)

those dots signify bifilar winding.....this is done in order to get the exact waveform out as it is put in....meaning it is not reversed or polar opposite.....it can be stepped up but must be the identical pulse orientation figure (B).........

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/dotorientationtransformer.jpg)

so what you have highlighted simply states the VIC multi spool.....which is the copper magnetic wire primary and secondary bifilar wound on a bobbin spool.......and the ss wire inductor also bifilar wound.

EVERYTHING IS STILL CORRECT.

and figure (A) explains dankies mystery pulse.....over lay them and that is what you get.......
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 12:55:58 pm
..
Stan mentions insulation (Rs) only once in the techbrief:

"Capacitance Reactance is determined by the insulation resistance (Rs+ Re) and Inductance
(L1/L2) interacting together during D.C. Pulsing.  "

Naudin also failed to produce bubbles when using insulation.
Does this mean that the bubbles are formed by power (V * I ) due to current leakage after all?
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 14:09:55 pm
so?
oulawstc, did you notice the bottom circuit (970) is shown in the independent evaluation report, being from (a patent of) 1981? (P. 17 and 20)
It is a design from the early days.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 16:10:02 pm
You miss-undertood

I used 2 TV transformers to create about 50KV potential between water.

so the Positive of one transformer was on one insolated plate, and the negative of the other transformer was on the other isolated plate.

the other 2 wires were just floating, not connected to anything, and it ionized the Air, I could smell it.

I also connected these two flowing wires to ground, to each other, only one to ground, the other to ground, using chokes, bifilar chokes, smoked some chokes. everything I could think of.

I did countless tests with HV and isolated electrodes. Not even one tini bouble. So if some people claim breaking water using isolated plates/tube they either have leaking insolation or they lying.

By the way, why do you think my screen name is Electrojolt ?

If you are still setup with that boil the water to steam.  Then pass the steam through the flyback plates.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 19:10:44 pm
Quote
If  an a 6 pole alternator is running at 3000rpm
3000 revolutions in 1 minute
3000 x 6poles = 18000 sinewaves in 1 minute
18000 / 60       =  300 sinewaves in 1 second
therefore 300hz  Wink

hydrogenmask, you are correct.. my bad if i canfused people but this would be the simplest equation

divide rpm by 60 then times by 6.. i dont know if alternators differ in pole count mine has 6 of each. stans may of had 7
giving him 49a-49n  thats 14 pulses in one rotation cycle


Quote
oulawstc, did you notice the bottom circuit (970) is shown in the independent evaluation report, being from (a patent of) 1981? (P. 17 and 20)
It is a design from the early days.

alan, its design may be from the early days but so was the vic sync pulsing circuit. it was his next step after rotary vic... his latest was 6-1.. you gotta realize 6-1  has primary field interacting with secondarys and ss chokes. at the same time in present space.. there somthing about allowing primarys field to coulple in the chokes..  i still dont fully understand but 970 states both primary and secondary coupling on inductor choke.. in order to get both coupling on same ferrite it must have power connection to both secondary and primary..  that makes it where primary and seconday have magnetic coupling in alternator and on the choke.. the positve stainless choke is accepting signal from primary giving pure dc pulses from.. the same pulses pulsing alternator are also pulsing choke..threw stainless.. like i said i still dont understaind completely .. but is all stated by stan.
970 is  important...... 49a-49n doesnt need conection to stainless in 6-1 because it is already coupling..



An isolation transformer is a transformer, often with symmetrical windings, which is used to decouple two circuits. An isolation transformer allows an AC signal or power to be taken from one device and fed into another without electrically connecting the two circuits. Isolation transformers block transmission of DC signals from one circuit to the other, but allow AC signals to pass. They also block interference caused by ground loops. Isolation transformers with electrostatic shields are used for power supplies for sensitive equipment such as computers or laboratory instruments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 19:16:21 pm

An isolation transformer is a transformer, often with symmetrical windings, which is used to decouple two circuits. An isolation transformer allows an AC signal or power to be taken from one device and fed into another without electrically connecting the two circuits. Isolation transformers block transmission of DC signals from one circuit to the other, but allow AC signals to pass. They also block interference caused by ground loops. Isolation transformers with electrostatic shields are used for power supplies for sensitive equipment such as computers or laboratory instruments.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isolation_transformer


this is going to sound bad but it's not and isolation transformer......it's an isolated transformer......meaning it's a pulsing transformer used to seperate circuits.....so it is not an isolation transformer but a pulse transformer.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 22:10:01 pm

Galvanic isolation is the principle of isolating functional sections of electric systems so that charge-carrying particles cannot move from one section to another, i.e. there is no electric current flowing directly from one section to the next. Energy and/or information can still be exchanged between the sections by other means, however, such as by capacitance, induction, electromagnetic waves, optical, acoustic, or mechanical means.

Galvanic isolation is used in situations where two or more electric circuits must communicate, but their grounds may be at different potentials. It is an effective method of breaking ground loops by preventing unwanted current from travelling between two units sharing a ground conductor. Galvanic isolation is also used for safety considerations, preventing accidental current from reaching the ground (the building floor) through a person's body.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 22:12:26 pm
^^ that's completely true. ^^

but there is a difference between an isolation transformer and a isolated PULSE transformer.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2009, 16:04:19 pm
Question: Why does the VIC box have a computer plug on the end?
Answer: It attaches to the Hybrid Laser Distributer

Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2009, 03:09:06 am
You miss-undertood

I used 2 TV transformers to create about 50KV potential between water.

so the Positive of one transformer was on one insolated plate, and the negative of the other transformer was on the other isolated plate.

the other 2 wires were just floating, not connected to anything, and it ionized the Air, I could smell it.

I also connected these two flowing wires to ground, to each other, only one to ground, the other to ground, using chokes, bifilar chokes, smoked some chokes. everything I could think of.

I did countless tests with HV and isolated electrodes. Not even one tini bouble. So if some people claim breaking water using isolated plates/tube they either have leaking insolation or they lying.

By the way, why do you think my screen name is Electrojolt ?

Get some super corona dope and insulate the cathode.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2009, 22:18:26 pm
if anyone listens to stephen meyers interview #3 on the waterfuelmuseum blog talk radio 48:20 he speaks of waveguide theory...then instead of telling the answer he switches to a story to explain it with marconi and antennas for radio and talks of impedance matching and how that was marconi's secret....and that people at hte time don;t understand what it is and why it works....so i am getting a book at hte library on waveguide theory....i am very glad i have a spectrum analyzer.....if all else fails i will just sweep the shit out of this and then do the math backwards for all of those who don't have this sort of machine.....i swear there are too many variables...between the resistance/capacitance/inductance between the primary secondary and chokes inside just the vic coil......plus the resistance and impedance of the water capcitor then putting them into resonance...without taking into account all the prior variables we cannot calculate resonance properly......good grief.

Waveguide handbook by Marcuvitz, Nathan

here is the link to the radio shows.

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,530.0.html (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,530.0.html)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2009, 22:29:25 pm
so my plan of just winding up the vic bobbins as full as they go probably wont cut it? too bad.... that would have been too easy. (i'll still try it tho!)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2009, 00:01:40 am
it would cut it.....you would just have to make sure it's wound properly (difference between spiral and bidirectional)......and then you would have to find the frequency range for the size of your water capcitor.....then just sweep in that area to find resonance.
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2009, 13:23:54 pm

http://rapidshare.com/files/211364172/Waveguide_Handbook__Microwave_1986_.pdf.html (http://rapidshare.com/files/211364172/Waveguide_Handbook__Microwave_1986_.pdf.html)

http://www.youtube.com (http://www.youtube.com)
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 10:07:30 am
..
Stan mentions insulation (Rs) only once in the techbrief:

"Capacitance Reactance is determined by the insulation resistance (Rs+ Re) and Inductance
(L1/L2) interacting together during D.C. Pulsing.  "

Naudin also failed to produce bubbles when using insulation.
Does this mean that the bubbles are formed by power (V * I ) due to current leakage after all?


This is incorrect.....this is what Naudin says about insulated electrode

"Notes : With the design v1.1, I haven't yet got the same density of bubbles observed in the v1.0, the WFC v1.1 has been designed so as to get a true capacitor, the stepping charge effect can be observed has Stanley Meyer as described in his technical notes and his patent. The adiabatic charge effect of this water capacitor is very important because it minimizes de losses by Joules effect in the circuit during the charging process, so the energy transfert in the WFC is optimal.

I am currently building a new WFC v2, I shall soon publish all the infos and the datas, stay tuned..."

So, it works....just lower bubble density

One thing I would like to point out too................JL Naudin has not been active since the WFC post....He has posted NOTHING else to his website....COINCIDENCE??
Title: Re: New VIC pictures discussion!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2011, 23:49:40 pm
VIC BOBBIN CORES MADE TO EXACT SPECIFICATION (http://mb.hydraclone.com/)
--------------------------------------------------
These are made entirely of Derlin material.  Dimensions are to the tolerances specifed by the inventors authentic CAD drawings discovered at the site of the inventors test car - the famous water powered dune buggy.  Discount pricing available on request.  See photos and make purchase (http://mb.hydraclone.com/).