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Electronics => Electronics => Longitudinal waves, the secret? => Topic started by: Dankie on November 20, 2008, 00:12:50 am

Title: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 00:12:50 am
http://www.tesla-coil-builder.com/FlatSpiralSecondaryPlasmaBall01.htm

Here is proof that Opposing fileds do affect matter... see the pattern on the plasma
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 01:08:00 am
look dankie opposing fields in a bifilar coil mean they are running against each other.......now im not sure if affecting matter is what is being used in the water capacitor......but the reason why the coil orientation is opposing each other is because it increase the distributed capacitance.......not scalar waves or affecting matter......but to increase the capacitance from 250,000 times so it can step voltage up to a very high state......you are on a whole other topic......something more complex then meyers vic.......the coils orientation like teslas, aarons, naudins, meyers, wests, and neogens is so it increase inductance distributed capacitance and cuts back on current all at the same time much much greater than making the fields run together....say NS vs NS where in meyers neogen and the rest are setup as NS vs SN......look into teslas patent or neogens image and aarons comparison......that explains it pretty well......you are talking about things beyond the vic.....affecting matter and scalar waves are another world.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 01:13:43 am
ahhh i see where all the confusion is now!!!!......ok see people are using the word opposing differently and coil orientation opposing.......ok HAHAH everything got lost in translation.........just follow tesla.....that is all i can say.....opposing fields and oposing polarity are DIFFERENT.....and this entire time this word OPPOSING has been the problem for misunderstandings.......i will get back to this later im in class right now......just look at the wire connections.....that is the most helpful.

we are probablly both on the same page.....but looking at the word opposing from different perspectives.....i think i am using the word opposing for its literal sense....im sorry if the word definition i am using is wrong......but now that i see meyers schematics......they are all correct....BUT DIFFERENT WAYS TO EXPLAIN the same thing.......no matter how you wind it you can switch the connections......that is the overall fallback.....so you can't be wrong when winding....no worries.....i will better explain this.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 01:22:05 am
Yeah well it is NS , NS

It just so happens that colliding voltages (or minor currents) do also create scalar waves ...
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:30:02 am
Could someone tell me how to insert an image in this post
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:36:06 am
Kinesis i see what you mean lol

heres a great page

http://www.linux-host.org/energy/sgcarter.html
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:38:56 am
ahhh i see where all the confusion is now!!!!......ok see people are using the word opposing differently and coil orientation opposing.......ok HAHAH everything got lost in translation.........just follow tesla.....that is all i can say.....opposing fields and oposing polarity are DIFFERENT.....and this entire time this word OPPOSING has been the problem for misunderstandings.......i will get back to this later im in class right now......just look at the wire connections.....that is the most helpful.

we are probablly both on the same page.....but looking at the word opposing from different perspectives.....i think i am using the word opposing for its literal sense....im sorry if the word definition i am using is wrong......but now that i see meyers schematics......they are all correct....BUT DIFFERENT WAYS TO EXPLAIN the same thing.......no matter how you wind it you can switch the connections......that is the overall fallback.....so you can't be wrong when winding....no worries.....i will better explain this.




Yeah i see what you mean , but look closely @ chapter 8 and you realise some dual secondary appears out of the blue to scroo you , makes things misconscrood .... ?

Things get scrood mentally...Help me try to understand whats going on ...

W/e it is its all the same and switcheable in 2 secs.

somebody on the forums have some input on this ?
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:48:25 am
I found it.  To attach use additional options at the bottom of the page. Thanks

I plan on winding a coil like this
(http://)
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:50:26 am
Nice work brother .

Care to explain it to me ?
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:54:24 am
This is what I think Stan has explained.  The coil is all 3 in 1 on the same core.  I plan to use the "E" core and not the "I" because in his brief he says the "E" is perferable.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:57:24 am
great diag,

By the looks of it, the secondary will generate some major HV.
What wire are you planing to use for your bifilar choke (Blue/Red) It will need to hadle very high volatges.
I am building a similar one, but still didn't find affortable wire for the bifilar.

Electrojolt.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 02:59:10 am
It looks like an excellent idea , I think Dogs was doing something like that with 304 ss tho.. 30awg.

Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:02:09 am
If the coil is put togather with the Tesla bifiler winding I think it would have to much voltage.  The voltage is multiplied with the segmented coil bobins and also with the telsa bifiler winding unless i'm mistaken. I think it would look something like this
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:05:37 am
jolt,

I have some hi temp 41AWG but I'm waiting on dankie to get the 430fr ss. I plan on using it
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:08:32 am
I forgot to mention that I am going to have 14 segments not just the 5 in the diagram
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:12:11 am
jolt,

I have some hi temp 41AWG but I'm waiting on dankie to get the 430fr ss. I plan on using it


Theres was also an E core bifilar from figure 10-3 , The amp inhibiting bifilar coil.

Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:16:24 am
The problem is not Temperature.

your wire insulator for any Bifilar that will oeperate at HV, will have to handle the max voltage. so Stan talked about 20KV, each wire insulation will have to handle at least 12KV.

I got a quote for the perfect wire for this but a little to much for my wallet;

http://www.vipwire.com/powerspec.html

Sent    : 11/6/2008 5:28:04 PM
To      : vipwire@netva.com
Cc      :
Subject : RE: Need price on some wire for R&D

Hi,

I'm doing some R&D and need some magnet wire to make
an high voltage transformer 20KV. the HV winding is
to be bifilar wound so the wire would need to resists
the HV field that will build between the 2 windings.

I was looking at your website and it looks like your
24-27B51S migh be the right product for this
transformer.

let me know your opinion, a price list and where can
I get the wire.

Thank You

Here is the responce:


I think the part number you referenced would work. PN
24-38B44S has an even higher voltage withstand due to
additional insulation thickness.

PN 24-27B51S (~686 ft/lb) $29.26 /lb. 20 lb. min.
PN 24-38B44S (~670 ft/lb) $42.96 /lb. 20 lb. min.

This wire is sold directly from the factory. How much
wire are you looking for?

I wrote back asking if they would cell only 4 lb, and they never responded.

Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:31:17 am
Lol i knowm somebody who told me the same ...

Thats why i'm not getting bifilar , you need to have them seperated by the bobbin material.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:44:39 am
jolt,

I don't think Stan used such exotic insulations.  I have discharged HHO from water with very small insulated wires and the water released the gasses before the insulation broke down.  I may be all wrong but remember we are looking at a .0625 gap in the cell.  I believe that even double insulated core wire will send voltage across that gap before going to ground through the insulation.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:46:22 am
jolt,

I don't think Stan used such exotic insulations.  I have discharged HHO from water with very small insulated wires and the water released the gasses before the insulation broke down.  I may be all wrong but remember we are looking at a .0625 gap in the cell.  I believe that even double insulated core wire will send voltage across that gap before going to ground through the insulation.

Very exotic... Pyre-Ml is the highest temp rating

240 degrees

But true it wasnt as thick as that lol
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 03:59:31 am
This is the wire I plan on using
Secondary 36 AWG
Primary 30 AWG
Chocks 41 AWG or 430FR 36

ENGINEERING HIGHLIGHTS
1. THERMAL CLASSIFICATION
THERMALEX 200® is class 200 when measured
in accordance with the ASTM D 2307 test
method. Heat shock resistance exceeds 220°C.
2. THERMOPLASTIC FLOW
Thermoplastic flow or cut-through temperature
of THERMALEX 200® is in the 365°C plus range;
well above maximum process conditions found
in molded coil work, trickle impregnation
processes and standard pre-heat varnish cycles
specified for normal Class 130, 155, 180 and
200 systems.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 04:15:54 am
jolt,

You may be right I may need this higher class insulation.  I remember a long time ago trying to shoot a blasting cap with a taser gun and couldn't get it to fire because of shorting out in the wires by the gun.  But this vic voltage is going to be built through the pulsing electro action of the circuit and not loaded into the secondary and chocks all at once so i suspect that the .0625 gap will get to disscharge all of it.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 04:21:17 am
jolt,

You may be right I may need this higher class insulation.  I remember a long time ago trying to shoot a blasting cap with a taser gun and couldn't get it to fire because of shorting out in the wires by the gun.  But this vic voltage is going to be built through the pulsing electro action of the circuit and not loaded into the secondary and chocks all at once so i suspect that the .0625 gap will get to disscharge all of it.


Bro you got amazing quality would love to have that 41 awg and 28  ...

The polynylon is very common , you have more than needed its better..

Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 04:26:19 am
dankie,

I've got to try both of them before I can give them up.  But I have more than I need and couuld cut some of it out for you.  If it works I'll have to have more anyway.
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 04:30:05 am
ahhh i see where all the confusion is now!!!!......ok see people are using the word opposing differently and coil orientation opposing.......ok HAHAH everything got lost in translation.........just follow tesla.....that is all i can say.....opposing fields and oposing polarity are DIFFERENT.....and this entire time this word OPPOSING has been the problem for misunderstandings.......i will get back to this later im in class right now......just look at the wire connections.....that is the most helpful.

we are probablly both on the same page.....but looking at the word opposing from different perspectives.....i think i am using the word opposing for its literal sense....im sorry if the word definition i am using is wrong......but now that i see meyers schematics......they are all correct....BUT DIFFERENT WAYS TO EXPLAIN the same thing.......no matter how you wind it you can switch the connections......that is the overall fallback.....so you can't be wrong when winding....no worries.....i will better explain this.

Lol i quote this because this word can indeed cause much confusion...

We must define the word opposing as opposing "electron flow"

My very own hadron collider for electrons...
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 15:49:57 pm
Hi johnbostick,
What is that pot between the secondary and the charging chokes?
Title: Re: Opposing Force
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2008, 20:35:42 pm
hydrogenmask,

I am intending to tap the negitive side chock about 20 ohms deep and place a 40 ohm pot there to use as the wiper as in Stans brief

"Dual-inline RLC Network
Variable inductor-coil (D), similar to inductor (C) connected to opposite polarity voltage zone (E2)
further inhibits electron movement or deflection within the Voltage Intensifier Circuit. Movable wiper
arm fine "tunes" "Resonant Action" during pulsing operations. Inductor (D) in relationship to inductor
(C) electrically balances the opposite voltage electrical potential across voltage zones (EI/E2)."

I am only experimenting with the pot to try and have an adjustable control for the two chocks.