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Electrolysis => Electrolysis => Topic started by: hydro on July 18, 2008, 08:08:00 am

Title: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 08:08:00 am
Today Folks I produced as much gas as i normally would, in fact,,, i think i produced more today then i did yesterday!

What did i do different with my tube cell to produce the same amount of gas? Well, i cut the amps in half!!!!!! LOL

Normally my cell runs at 35 amps,,, Today it ran at 15 amps and produced the same amount of gas using less amps!

So whats the trick one might say? Well, the outer tubes are just for looking at... +-+-+-+-+-+

who would have thought??? this means i can add more tubes up until i see 35 amps again, this would mean my production would ("DOUBLE")

This isn't my latest finding though,,, my latest finding totally deletes the use of a noisy alternator alltogether wahooooooooo.... The latest finding can be installed into a car and has no moving parts!

THIS IS MY NEW TUBE SETUP!!!!!!!!
IT REQUIRES THE INNER TUBES TO BE CONNECTED ONLY, +-+-+-+-+- like that... It Requires a Voltage Inverter, ONLY a 3000 watt one ("WHICH IS OVER KILL") AND A GOOD VARIAC AND BRIDGE RECTIFIER!!!!!!!!!  Power inverter not needed for indoor testing!

My Production today pulled 10 amps from the 110 volt wall outlet, 1100 watts is what i used! and i produced as much this way, "IF NOT MORE" than i would produce using the alternator, which is rated 110 volts 12 amps min, 24 amps max.... I wonder if i can get run 2 variacs or 1 big one,,, HRMMM....
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 08:34:53 am
lol,, I would say i do not know because all the outer tubes are all connected to each other,, very strange
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 08:41:06 am
just to be clear, im still producing what i was or more, and 20 big amps came up missing? whered they go?

anyone seen my amps?

EDIT, this works on the alternator just as well, tested that to! just the variac dont make noise and is capable of getting the job done since less amps are required now ;)
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 08:47:09 am
Riddler

 ;D Different, Good findings !!!  ;D
I would be interested in seeing the wiring layout.  ???

Spike
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 11:36:46 am
talking with stevie for an hour or so on replicating this test,,, at first his tubes didn't do that great, production was low, 150 cc's a min at 8 amps 12 volts, 84 watts... I ask him to switch from his secret power supply to his variac, this is where he consumed 8 amps by 25v on variac producing 190 cc's a min. 200 watts

Stevies max production before this was 330 cc's min using 20 volts 20 amps. 400 watts

Stevie had told me his variac was small, he had problems getting 10 amps from it, i think he had to back off because the variac started to smoke.

This is strange because my old production was around 22 volts 35 amps for about 500 cc's a min 770 watts, now i can produce probably the same or more using 45 volts 15 amps, 675 watts.

Stevie thinks his tubes are to long, myself i dont know what the *ell is going on and spike looks to replicate this soon, or test around with it. Stevie is in the process of creating a new cell and me, im really happy that i can cut the amps in half and still produce the same, or more.

Stevie had mentioned to me that 770 watts was not much different than 675 watts, and i had mentioned back that amps cause heat, and less amps means less heat, that heat come from work. i mentioned that i could tell the difference between the load on my driver motor because it wasn't bad at all, 15 amps compared to 35 is a load of difference. He also said voltage will cause heat to, i agree but amps is what loads down the alternator, with this setup i have that works for me the load on the alternator is cut in half, its unlike anything i have ever seen.

More testing! i'm glad to make this discovery, even if everyone cant replicate it for some un oddly reason, which i can understand. 
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 14:51:42 pm
so your outers became neutrals?
How long are you running your cell for a heat test? let it run for an hour and see if you get a temp change. (vent properly)
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 16:06:38 pm
Riddler, this is great news.  Thanks for sharing it with us.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 20:13:28 pm
stevie says the outers are floating, since they're all connected to each other, this is a odd setup...

Of course the water gets warm lol, over a period of time... we're not in magic world just yet...
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 20:57:01 pm
they act as neutrals...but the stranhe thing is that i see clearly the oxygen from 1 tube and hydrogen from the other .........

br
Steve
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 23:06:22 pm
The alternator Driver motor will pull anywhere from 12 amps to 25 amps depending upon the load on the alternator, so at idel the driver motor consumes 1320 Watts of power just sitting there running with no load.

It takes 1 HP from the Driver motor for every 25 amps the alternator outputs, this is what i was preaching about when i said i cut the amps in half. So a 3 HP driver motor can deliver 75 Amps, and a 1 HP driver motor can deliver 25 amps. , i can guess an alternator putting out 25 amps would consume atleast 1650 Watts from the wall outlet, and makes racket.

What i have found is the Variac can consume 10 amps at 110 volts, 1100 watts, with this i can hook my cell up to make it FLOAT as stevie calles it, with this i get the same gas output!

Im not gonna settle for 1100 watts now, more like 3300!

I have included a photo of the variac which can consume 3300 whats if it wants to, so this means all thats needed is a 3000 watt power inverter if you want to place this device into a car! It makes no racket and i find it to be just is good if not better than the alternator, the problem will be finding a full bridge rectifier that can handle atleast 50 amps for long periods of time.

A 3300 watt  variac will give you about 30 amps to put to your cell, which i'm only using now 15, so i will be running my fuel cell from about 1650 watts from the wall outlet, about the same as the alternator, but no racket or moving parts!

Now it is very easy to get large amounts of current into a car "(Hassle Free)"

Here is a schematic of my Diagram.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 18, 2008, 23:10:59 pm
im also proud to say i just ordered that variac in the photo!
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 19, 2008, 16:52:34 pm
i have the same variac it good the only problem is the fuse holder sucks the fuses are just a hair smaller than the standard fuse once you blow it  their a problem to find 
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 19, 2008, 21:44:09 pm
Here is an example of this setup running my 8 tubes, i am also changing my configureation later on where each cell will = 3 tubes like spike
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 19, 2008, 22:17:44 pm
Thanks for the video.  That is some spectacular gas production.  You've got me pumped up now.  I've got to get more tubes into my experiment along with chokes and your circuit.  I have a variac and the full bridge rectifier.  I also have a standard Lawton circuit, which I probably should modify to your specs asap.  Thanks for sharing with us.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 04:52:40 am
Good work hydro.  You using the alternator's bridge on that?
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 05:17:42 am
lol, howed you know? and where have you been hiding?
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 05:40:26 am
lol, howed you know? and where have you been hiding?

Been working lots of hours at the machine shop and I also got a new Bronco 2 that im switching from auto to manual 4x4 so been busy!!!

Anywho, tonight I hooked my cells up as neutrals on the outside then crossed 2 pos and 2 neg on the inners and I had some really good production! Something is wrong with my alternator and the output is very low so this test made my production appear to increase.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 07:14:39 am
i would like to report that i gained 104 volts across a cell, the cell started humming and then shacking, "viberating" at first i thought the humming was coming from my power supplie but further investigation proved that it was not comming from the power supply but from the fuel cell. Im not going to comment on the fuel cell setup right now because i am working on making this better, but i can tell ya during humming i was producing about 450 cc's a min...

i think i am starting to understand whats going on, and if what i feel is right then i can make production at its peek,, lets see what happens...
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 08:14:09 am
my last test results,,, 106 volts 3.7 amps 350 cc's a min...

IF, the voltage did not Drop i could add 5 more units... this would be 3.7 amps * 6 = 22.2 amps, Production would be 2.1 liters per min, IF the voltage does not drop... If the voltage does drop one could add 6 diff power supplies running 6 units, the output would indeed be 2.1 liters a min!

Lets hope we dont have much of a voltage drop! These fuel cell units cost !!!! i want be geting these results in anytime soon...
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 08:24:43 am
its like the more i progress the more i notice that the higher the volts get the lower the amps go down? Strange for me to realize volts is getting higher and amps are getting lower, hrmmm
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 08:49:25 am
um, you guy's probably gonna think im a nut but i just had to come back and post that the outside container of my cell has static all over it, i can stick paper to it,,, its like the static you would find on a TV tube,but its not as strong. the reason i noticed it is because it made the little hairs on my hand tickle when i racked my hand across it,, i then grabed paper to confirm,,, very odd.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 09:59:52 am
um, you guy's probably gonna think im a nut but i just had to come back and post that the outside container of my cell has static all over it, i can stick paper to it,,, its like the static you would find on a TV tube,but its not as strong. the reason i noticed it is because it made the little hairs on my hand tickle when i racked my hand across it,, i then grabed paper to confirm,,, very odd.

Riddler,

Static charge on the outside of the cellwall..
That strange....Nice to read your findings!
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 11:21:21 am
Hey Riddler, great work.

Here's an idea. Place one of those electron extraction rings above your tubes, run a wire out to a light bulb, and back to your negative. If the bulb lights then you are removing electrons like Stan's drawings, and will probably make even more gas. Maybe that's what the static is, left over charged electrons? Or maybe I'm nuts too...lol. ::)
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 14:28:39 pm
if you put so shrink tubing over the outter tube and rubber stoppers in the inner tubes  it will draw in more voltage and amps  cause your losing alot of it into the water bath making the static charge gas production will  almost double it did on mine 
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 19:10:03 pm
hydro, today I hooked my variac with the bridge straight to the 4 tube cell +-+- center electrode only and had some amazing output. I turn the variac 50% and making more gas than ever.   I'm not getting the static on the outside so far from what I have noticed.    Very exciting!
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 19:37:30 pm
CarbedNotch,

Are your outer tubes connected to one another?  Also, how close to one another are your tube sets?  Thanks. 
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 20:23:16 pm
CarbedNotch,

Are your outer tubes connected to one another?  Also, how close to one another are your tube sets?  Thanks. 

Outer tubes are connected but the inners are not. My tubes are .070" and .024" on the 2 demo units ive built. The .024" is much more responsive.

I'm uploading a video now.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2008, 21:01:24 pm
CarbedNotch,

Thanks for sharing the video with us.  You have a very responsive cell.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2008, 02:38:07 am
the cell started humming and then shacking, "viberating" at first i thought the humming was coming from my power supplie but further investigation proved that it was not comming from the power supply but from the fuel cell.

I discovered this today also!  Its amazing what you might hear w/out an alternator roaring away

It sounds like a distorted buzzing sound and its hard to lock on to its peak effect...   

I also learned not to hook the o-scope to it unless you want to weld something.

I'd like to add that I was only able to achieve this ringing reaction with only one of my cells. It was the one That is 10"long with the .024" gap. "Little man" is responding much better to my setup then the 11.5"  .070" gap "Big-Boy" cell.   The larger gap cell wants more power put to it and I think my 13amp variac is just not powerful enough for it.

"Little Man" is now powerful enough to run a torch all on its own and still push pressure. I have had 3 explosions because if the back-pressure drops it pulls the flame into the bubbler. very scary and it got me all wet.  I wonder what will happen if I hook the variac to my neon sign transformer then to a bridge rectifier then to the cell...?
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2008, 08:47:13 am
i wondered the same thing! but i think the trick to that will be in the cell setup ;)
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2008, 13:03:05 pm
i wondered the same thing! but i think the trick to that will be in the cell setup ;)

test done.... no reaction.
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2008, 13:06:23 pm
Just curious, are your outer (neutral) tubes connected to each other?
Are you checking your PM's lately?
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 23, 2008, 23:43:29 pm
yah, the outter tubes are connected to each other! i will check me pm's now...
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 24, 2008, 23:30:18 pm
Hi all

I am planning to get a variac for my experiments. I want to take the output of one of my stator windings and connect it to the variac, then take the output rectify it and hook it upto the rotor.

Most variacs are rated for 110 volts 60hz.. But my input from the stator side to my variac will approximately 300 hz 40 volts peak to peak max.

Will a standard off the shelf variac work? Has any one tried regulating the output of the alternator using a variac. That is the alternators output is the variac input.

I dont want to waste my money if someone has already tried this and found that variacs wont accept alternator voltage?

what about 400 hz alternators?
http://www.elect-spec.com/variac_400.htm

It says "May be Operated at 60 Hz for Input BELOW 55 Volts"

My input is going to be below 55 volts but it will be 350 to 400 hz?  Has any one used / experimented with 400hz  variacs?  My financial resources are limited and i want to make sure I get the right variac. Any help would be appreciated.
thanks yall
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 24, 2008, 23:44:46 pm
Hi WF,

I do not see any problems with that idea! Very creative! ;)
A variac is simply a transformer. So ac input wil bring ac output.
the diff between 60hz and 300hz is not that big. So on that level i do not see any trouble.

All these advises are my own 2 cents on that. All financial risks taken on them are for yr own....
Its for me the same. Money is not a unlimited sourche

br
steve
Title: Re: Brand New Finding, Tube Cells
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 25, 2008, 00:52:55 am
Hi all

I am planning to get a variac for my experiments. I want to take the output of one of my stator windings and connect it to the variac, then take the output rectify it and hook it upto the rotor.

Most variacs are rated for 110 volts 60hz.. But my input from the stator side to my variac will approximately 300 hz 40 volts peak to peak max.

Will a standard off the shelf variac work? Has any one tried regulating the output of the alternator using a variac. That is the alternators output is the variac input.

I dont want to waste my money if someone has already tried this and found that variacs wont accept alternator voltage?

what about 400 hz alternators?
http://www.elect-spec.com/variac_400.htm

It says "May be Operated at 60 Hz for Input BELOW 55 Volts"

My input is going to be below 55 volts but it will be 350 to 400 hz?  Has any one used / experimented with 400hz  variacs?  My financial resources are limited and i want to make sure I get the right variac. Any help would be appreciated.
thanks yall

Ok you dont want to wast any money,,, For one, you dont even have to hook AC to the stator coil, DC will work better.. This is because of the way the rotor turns, the way its made, it oscillates as it spins.
I have hooked 12 volts to the field coil and spun it at 3k or so rpms to try what your talking about, it does not work, i have not tried a variac that i can remember, i would think it would be again, nothing.

i think your wasting your time, but you can confirm, maybe i didn't put alot of effort in it when i tested it, if it worked i think you all would know about it because i would have posted the finding.

you ask, i replied.