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Electrolysis => Fuel Cells => Tube Cells => Topic started by: JTJB on June 23, 2008, 06:31:40 am

Title: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 06:31:40 am
I just finished my 21 tube fuel cell (only 11 tubes installed currently) and it is shorting out when dunked in the tap water resevoir but not shorting when dry on the counter, outside of the tap water tank?

I keep cooking my 100 bifilar wound inductors when i connect them between the D14 circuit and the WFC, however, I can connect the D14 circuit with inductor to a thermal peltier device or a 12V light bulb without any ill effect or overheating (light bulb shows the pulsing effect quite nicely).

If I then remove the D14 circuit and connect an automotive battery DIRECTLY to the WFC's"+" and "-" leads, Electrolysis happens instantly and vigorously, BUT the positive and negative connections from the battery cables touching the WFC leads start turning red hot from short circuiting!

Take the WFC back out of the water, let it dry, and viola....no shorting??? Why is the water shorting it out?

Any suggestions as to what may be wrong?
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 07:21:02 am
The tubes look good. The metal plate and metal rods you used to divide and keep them in place needs to be made of a non-conductive material.
Keeping the water insulated helps tube cells limit their losses. $.02
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 07:51:31 am
Thanks Carbed,

The stainless rods are not support rods.

The SHORT stainless threaded rod is my positive lug, and the LONG threaded rod, running the length of the cell,  THROUGH the NYLON insulator on the top plate, connected to the bottom plate, is my negative lug. I don't want any holes in the bottom of my cell when it is complete. All hardware will exit through the top....no leak points.

The lower plate is my negative plate and is connected only to the inner tubes. I have a Parker hydraulic hose crimper and crimped 1/4 316 stainless nuts into the ends of my 5/8 ID .065 inner tubes  so they could thread onto the bottom plate.

The O.D. of the outer tube is press fitted into the top stainless plate making the unit very stable and electrically connected at the same time.


The inner/outer tubes are isolated from one another by 8 nylon rivets. 4 at the top and bottom of the inner tube. The outer tube is a tight slip fit over these nylon spacer rivets. (1.52mm)


The inner and outer tubes are completely isolated from one another when on the counter. I could take 120V and touch the the 2 threaded rods and see no grounding

BUT

as soon as it touches water....I get shorting?





Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 08:45:30 am
Hi,

nice build cell!

do you know ohms law?
The more tubes you have, the lower the overall  resistance. Its is possible that your resistance with too many tubes is too low.
In that case, you have to split connections and you have to use 2 or 3 drivercircuits.

br
steve






Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 13:53:54 pm
how long are those tubes 20 inches

i would go along with steve  its just to big 


also dose anyone know the exact lenght of stans tubes  in his display  unit
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 15:50:15 pm
My tubes are 17 inches long.

Stan's were 18"

he had 9 I have 11?  Whats the problem?

Trying distilled water next.
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 16:04:03 pm
Good suggestion.
Try destilled and see what it does.
Another thing...
If you still keep this problem, then you better try tube by tube.
See which tube is giving your problems....
I had to do that once.......

br
Steve
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 16:54:49 pm
Are you using only tap water and what is the spacing between the inner tube and the outer tube? your using 11 sets of  tubes it draw so much power over 30amps the size of your bifilar magnet wire limits current and my get so hot and smoke, use distiller water what stevie1001 and other suggested to you. Nice work…
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 17:54:46 pm
i agree with stevie, do you know ohms law? Learn the current for 1 cell using a car battery, multiply that current by how many tubes you have then figure your ohms, its possible with that many tubes you have a dead short.

Then again, someone also told me that NYLON can cause dead shorts! i wish you the best of luck.
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 20:02:17 pm
OK, I got an ammeter. I was pulsing WAY to many amps across the circuit. I am now running at 1.0A with very little HHO production and lots of brown muck.

when I go up to 2A, that little red inductor in my picture starts to smell and get HOT!!!

should I make a larger inductor? Obviously I know very little about what I am doing, however I have great access to raw materials as I own an industrial supply shop and have a machine shop division in the same building.

Help me spend my money and utilize my resources vicariously through me, maybe you could tell me what to do to make this thing make HHO, I really don't wanna wait three months as Ravi claimed to see 10MM bubbles.
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 22:08:38 pm
you could wrap another layer of bifilar over the one you have and run i paralel  should double your amperage  or read into mutal inductance  depending on the size of your core you could go with a few wraps before you hit saturation  do you own a scope to see  the wave form that is coming out that way you can tell if you saturated your core  or if your even getting the wave you want to start with before you continue with it
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2008, 05:05:45 am
WOW, just read the Meyers work has been cracked!

How does one build the VIC circuit with those toroidal ferrites?

How many windings.....component list for parts....etc....

Can anyone here compile that list / info?

I will get on it immediately if anyone can supply an easier schematic as the one J Naudin supplies is WAY to vague for this begginer.

The D14.pdf is more of my speed.....LOL


 
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2008, 06:03:45 am
JTJB,  I have 9 tubes 27" long.
I draw over 100 amps on a 12v car battery.

on tap water too.
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2008, 08:16:56 am
Hi Nograts,

100Amps!!

I thought we are supposed to be drawing 1/2 an amp or something like Stan Meyer but producing copious amounts of HHO.....No?

You are doing brute force electrolysis, I thought the whole intent of this work is to resonate the HHO out of the water with frequency, not liberate it with brute force?

Sorry for my naivety, I just built my cell over a 3 week period and only started testing electrically 2 days ago.
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2008, 10:11:00 am
Nograts

I can't seem to find what kind of production you are putting out, To see if 100amps is too much. Out of curiosity, I pulled out my meyers style cell, to get some numbers. and a video

7 cell
10" long
1.5mm gap
15.2 amps
11.5 vdc
174.8 watts
300cc/min

Spike
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2008, 10:38:49 am
Everyone always forgets to mention their gaps, the most important...
Title: Re: My induction coil keeps smoking!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2008, 14:37:38 pm
Were the toggle switches on Stan's White Box in his car used to turn each tube cell on/off?

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