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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on July 16, 2020, 12:13:37 pm

Title: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 16, 2020, 12:13:37 pm
Hope the picture can be self explanatory. 


I was thinking about some experiments I did and why didn't worked..  I was trying this stand cell with 11 cells in many ways.. and somehow I got stuck before having multi phase tests...

I was considering this drawing and perhaps with a small motor spinning a piece of hard steel wire with steel nails on an isolating shaft and holder would be possible to make a multi phase output for DC...

My idea with this is that if somehow we can apply high dc voltage sequentially to the tubes in this configuration.. perhaps we can verify a current flow in this diode circle.. every touch and go would provide a pulse on the each nail...

It could be done with a transformer phase for each electrode...

In case if we had 11 cells.. with a distributer having 11 nails at 60 rotations per cycle would give up to 660hz

I guess a coil around the cell would be able to pick this signal 

My idea is that if this works perhaps we could create current from potential at a phase angle where it will not create reaction... is all about moving, deflecting electrons with high electric field.

Stan points the voltage potential equation for a dielectric medium.. this mean many things and one is that when you set up a charge rod inside water it will create a voltage gradient this mean that a second electrode at a distance x will have a voltage differential from the first electrode.. however you can't touch the electrodes to each other or they will have the same potential...

Superconductors works by copper's pair basically electrons travel in different manner without hitting the atoms..  correct me if I'm wrong please

A whismhurst machine works by using a disc to charge some plates at a point and discharge them at a second point where they are far from each other... work is done in separating the electrodes as we are doing capacitance change...

In the case of the drawing the charge is kept since only potential is used so the current that would flow should not consume power at all

Hope you get the time to think about it





Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 16, 2020, 12:23:27 pm
The high voltage distributor I'm referring too came as an idea to apply sequential voltage field to the electrodes with decent isolation.. I took this idea from like 23years ago I saw a man in the beach that made a device for building a sequential lights like airport landing lights as he was doing nigh flights with his aero modelism plane.. 

He used a dc motor from a car glass cleaner..  nails for each light and a piece of iron that rotates touching each nail independently..
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 16, 2020, 12:29:31 pm
Maybe this is why stan used the alternator

I would test it today using a diode for each coil and apply to the inner cells of a 3 cell design and outer connected as in the diagram

Than I guess the idea is to have a 7th electrode on the water connected to a resistance as to bring enough current as to I have enough charge on the electrodes to initiate the processes of deflection.

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 16, 2020, 12:53:40 pm
I had all this ideas this morning it came all at once in my head like a kind of message.. hope came for good.

When i get all the things stan said together with this makes me lot o sense.

He says it can go up to megahertz but would but 5khz is enough.

He said he use voltage potential to move and deflect electrons without consuming power..

He used diodes to control the current flow

Well in my mere opinion this is where the 40kv 1ma can be used for ..

There may be still something to make it work..

But at least now for me is clear what we can do with voltage..   like a magnet can create a voltage perpendicular to is movement a voltage must create a current if its moved in another referential.

If I were a better physicist I would have figured this out before and perhaps explain better but I guess you got the idea.

Waiting for your replies please I'm very curious if any of you did this before and if so why didn't work.

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 16, 2020, 20:47:15 pm
Ill gues you need only 1 diode to route the potential...
I trully dont see any special effects in yr setup

But that doesnt say anything.
Any change that you build this system?
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 17, 2020, 00:04:15 am
Hi Steve... I did some test in the past with this.. but only used one source of potential...

I'm not saying that the diodes are necessarily in this configuration maybe it can form a closed loop with all electrodes involved so the anode of the diodes goes to inner electrodes for example.. but still the multiphase is required

The idea with the diodes is to have a manner to apply the potential sequentially without discharging the system yet making a dc closed loop. One diode would not allow the electrodes to keep charged with same polarity when the next receive the voltage...

When I tried I tried with only one source of potential so i wasn't actually deflecting the electrons along the circuit. That's why i didn't had a current flow.. in my point of view is possible that if we use a multi phase sequential pulse we can walk those electrons making it happens just by the expense of charging the cells with the voltage required..

In an oscilloscope we can deflect the electrons with voltage... in a particle accelerator is possible to accelerate an electron flipping the voltage over a magnetic field.. the electron radius increase as is velocity is increased.

If we could make the cell to get charged and simply take this charge and change referential my guess is that we are going to have a current flow. Like if you take a piece of magnet and attract a piece of iron over a table.. but in the case you can teleport the magnet to different positions.. the diodes however allow the current to flow only in one direction.. 

I'm getting crazy and it makes no sense at all?

I don't know but I seem to have seeing stan talking about simply deflecting electrons.. using potential as a force within the circuit but not consuming it..

If ac were to be applied to each inside tube also some strange possibility could happen...

We know that for some reason the cell generated tons of hydrogen to run the car with 40w.. a tv set consumes such power... how a tv works .. there is the electron generator filament the acceleration potential and deflecting plates or magnets.. this morning I don't know how something told me that he was doing just this and made me all the sense with the resistors either for me because you should have a initiating current to strong polarize the cell to high voltage actually.. if we don't connect one end of the wire we get low voltage in reality... now if we have a plate inside water even small it can represent this resistance.. the connection..

We want full force fields on the electrodes.. I guess the way to do it is the electron extraction electrode stan talk about.. or maybe just a small reference..

I think you get my point.. there is two currents actually one in this more open circuit and a second will be withing the electrodes but is independent and so here is why in my theory we can kind of generate this strange exchange of charges around the cell by teleporting the fields by sequential or multphase pulsing of dc..

Hope it made some clearance on the reason of the diodes.. the diodes will dissipate lot of power but this power is coming from the potential vs induced current..




Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 17, 2020, 11:42:24 am
I mention a small electrode inside water .. however I think perhaps we must think better

Stan had what he called the electrostatic filter and I guess I understood why..

When we have two identical electrodes inside water at very high distance and apply a  positive and negative it will form a electric field that is uniform between.. voltage / distance = E
If we reduced one of the electrodes most of the electric field will concentrate there because also E= j × d  or current density times distance.. so when we reduce a electrode to a point it will increase resistance and so the voltage drop...

This take me to a conclusion

Water cells must be small

The other electrode I mentioned must be as large as possible.. 

We need to make a water resistance increase by geometric arranging or funneling the water between the two regions...

If we charge them yo 1kv actually one will be 500v and other will be -500v the voltage drop is going to be at the water resistance... and so the fields on the electrodes are going to be the maximum..

So water cells must have two compartments

The electrode could be charged relative to ground and maintained with a capacitor of decent size.. this will increase the voltage field of the cell electrode..

I hope you see how this different is from having a couple of electrodes connected to coils only...

First we need to know how to maximize the current density of cells electrode to have a greater electric field...

In stan cells the outer electrode are isolated since the water passes thru the inner electrode on input and tat  go out from same electrode..

My feel is that if we already saturate an electrode with some current giving it a certain electric field and we than create a secondary current ... necessarily this secondary current will increase the electric field at the electrode face and since it have a potential already stabilized by what I'm describing we probably can benefit from this field by interfering with other..

Fields can sum or subtract.. if we charge two plates with 1000v in the middle between field is zero since it will point always outwards that's because those going inwards cancel out..

Stan developed a kind of resistive material and my guess is that he made not to limit current.. but to be able to concentrate the electric fields where he wants..

For example if we add a sort of isolating material that covers the electrodes leaving only small sections  we are going to increase the field or voltage drop

A resistor will consume power and depending in size and shape in my opinion could be comparable to a high dielectric doped ceramic.. impurities in ceramic makes it conductive..

Some semiconductor like tektrical pointed can behave capacitively up to a certain voltage and than become conductive above.. like a varistor

Coming back to the point.. electrostatic in water is not exactly static and so we must think how to get the field where we want otherwise seeing no effects from our work is the only thing we are going to achieve.

Even when we get a acrylic cell with one electrode inside and charge it to 50kv is not true that this 50kv is where we want... since with very few microamps this will create a static drop of voltage on the acrylic case itself

So we need to throw some power to accomplish the job like stan said.   

This is the only project that when I start to think about makes me back to live.. I don't know why.. even after so many years.. even with no money or results.. this quest is maybe the only thing that makes and sense and reason to my life. Thanks for never let this fire goes away.







Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 19, 2020, 15:24:21 pm
I think if we use some kind of catalyst would be much easier to make it happen.. 

Basically we need the ions to absorb to be able to use them.. catalysts lower the barrier and in my guess using electric fields will be just enough to make it work.

Is not that hard for me to believe that stan coated his tubes with maybe palladium... or platinum or both

It's being a while thinking and thinking and I truly believe is there a way to accomplish meyer's claim

We are almost there

I'm going to explain why I think the catalyst will do the job

When we charge up the ss cells what happens is that a double layer of opposite ions will glue to the double layer.. but a catalyst will make the ions pass thru and lend their charge to the electrode with no electrical input required for this. So when if what I'm saying is true a water capacitor having platinum electrode would have much greater charge content I guess would be much different.

I have some small amount of palladium but is not enough to make a test =(

In near future I plan to buy some to make such tests... I still have palladium chloride solution that can be plated over nichel plated ss but need a palladium electrode for this..

In theory if we charge the electrodes in this way the ions are trapped so instead of passing a current with a voltage over it you must simply discharge however its going to have opposite polarity should behave like a kind of inductor

Voltage must be applied to the electrodes sets 180 degrees so no power is consumed directly...

I'm going to make some few tests when I can


Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 19, 2020, 15:34:53 pm
Stan made it in a way as to recycle this energy from the charge up in a resonant tank.. I believe two systems are required but I'm not sure.. perhaps just using catalyst electrodes already do the task

So basically we are going to charge up and than discharge this capacitive energy in a coil to make it be used for next cycle with a second coupled inductor
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2020, 03:12:25 am
Diferente electrolytes

Acid have h+ free ions
Base have oh- free ions

If we make each cell with an electrolyte perhaps we can find interesting result.

I want to test this put a cell with acid and apply positive to this side and other cell and have base and apply negative to it..

Doing this way on the electrode receiving the field na or the acid negative ion will be accumulated while the h+ and oh- will be forced into the other electrode..

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2020, 03:39:26 am
This is what I'm talking about...
Is inspired in eccles fracture cell.. David haitin, Stanley meyer's  and horvath claims

One side is acid the other is basic... no diode between them for discharge of the ions..

Current is limited by the acrylic like in the fracture cell.. so should not resonate crazy unless we get the water resonance so called



Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2020, 09:04:51 am
Its a crazy theory....
But also an interesting one..

It means you must use a relais for switching, i supose
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2020, 09:40:57 am
I'm kind of thinking that the ions will keep on existence when the acid or base ions are adsorbed or that they will rapidly become available.. explain you why I think that

When we add sodium hydroxide for example we get na+ ions and oh- formed.. if we take the electrode and charge to negative each ion of sodium that gets adsorbed will basically will make the inner electrode to form a voltage...

I went to the physics university and there the lessons about capacitor teach me that inside a charged hollow metal we have zero electric field

This mean that if you charge the inner electrodes they will have a electric field acting if you charge the outer electrode it will not be able to go inside unless you charge it.

David haitin patent mention another patent about its mechanism of discharging the ions while maintaining the electric fields.

A cylindrical capacitor like any capacitor will have zero field outside however if you put a voltage on the inside it will sum with the capacitor voltage.. this mean that that region in space can have the potential manipulated.. 

The main idea is to have free h+ ions in a region always positive where it is forced to be deflected against the other coming from a negative region..

If we charge the inside electrode and than the whole structure we may be able to create what david describe.. a structure that screen the electric fields and allow the ions to discharge.. maybe the discharge must be switched by a relay like you pointed.

Palladium and platinum should be used to allow the ions to adsorb making it available to form gas with no energy

The way its draw the inner electrode is charged than the whole cell outside shield is charged to force the potential of the region to become same chargd and repel the ion towards negative region..

The dielectric could be much better than acrylic.. I'm thinking of designing a nice experiment for it.

https://patents.google.com/patent/EP1586046A4/en

When I saw this patent I didn't realize how could be this shield structure.. but in the way I draw for me makes sense what he described.. because in the drawings of the patent the shield is not very well explained as is the secret behind all this patents

Also in fig one you can see there is two power supplies not only one.. and that is why I think I cracked it. Only one source would not be possible since the negative ions would be in a positive region so would not be able to go towards the counter ion to discharge never.. is like charging a cell with a diode in parallel and expect that the ions of the double layer will be shorted of we open circuit.
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2020, 18:01:15 pm
Thinking again when we add sodium hydroxide we not adding only na+ we are adding also the oh_ ions  na oh

So if we momentarily take the sodium ion out if water naturally the other oh ion will not disappear but will be forced into the outer electrode since no electric field is stable inside a hollow metal

If the outer electrode have a internal coating of catalyst it will readily adsorb the oh ion making its electron available to flow in the circuit..

If the central electrode is ss the na will get the electron from it and readily it will be stealing a electron from another water molecule forming more ions because it will not get adsorbed into ss. It will only exchange charge so far as I understand..

It's a case if constant disequilibrium .. 

So basically it seems the sodium or potassium should work by taking electrons from the negative electrode and giving it to water molecule to form oh- ions again.. while the oh_ is not discharged it will reach equilibrium and stop the reaction..
So all we need to do is to discharge the catalyst so its able to get more and more charge to it...

The greatest thing I'm expecting from it is that as we can manipulate the potential in the region where the ions are being adsorbed perhaps we can add this potential to the ions current generating high power high current plus high voltage...



Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2020, 04:18:50 am
The acid of choice would be sulfuric acid and base potassium hydroxide

Both will not react with palladium platinum or stainless steel

I dont think we need very low or high ph I guess 4 and 10 is ok respectively for acid and basic baths

I think water with a neutral ph could work too but I think manipulating the ph could be useful

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2020, 10:16:46 am
https://ocw.mit.edu/courses/chemistry/5-112-principles-of-chemical-science-fall-2005/video-lectures/lecture-23-cell-potentials-and-free-energy/
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2020, 12:44:58 pm
Basic tests I think we need to do

Part list
Stan circuits like optocoupled actuators having isolated power supply for each line

This are useful since it can be placed anywhere in the circuit...

Today we have arduino modules that can be used for that.. I'm thinking about using those 12v power supplies with a relay board that comes with optocoupker inputs modified with adding high voltage mosfet with heatsinks and proper protection

Secondly we must be able to generate the frequency and sequence of steps with easy and it can be done with programming very easily..  I will be using the esp32 chip for it... probably I'm going to create a user interface to be able to change the parameters like frequency pw superposition synchro phase etc

Than we need cell

I plan to have different cells with different materials to test this idea of ions. So ideally some electrodes and diodes will be needed.

First test I think should be done is
DC source, high side and low side switching relays
Two cells
Resistor between them
Relay between them
A diode anti parallel with the dc inputs after the relays
Test see if for different resistor values if is possible to get inductive behavior of the cells
Test the same for different electrodes and electrolytes

If we can have a way to charge the cell and conclude that it can persist a current flow after we switch of the current input the resistor between the cells will show a negative voltage when the high side or and low side is open..
 Test the same with catalyst electrodes
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2020, 12:56:11 pm
If we want to get the spirit of how meyer's cracked horvath and tayhehan parents we need to follow not his words but how this words relates to the work he referred to.

Stan talks about restricting current and that it is able to polarize water if he uses a limited current etc.

Well my guess of how we are going to see its work and find out what the hell he mean with it is to try it right

To try it right we need some cooperation between results so we need to make real measurements and take notes.. do math etc.. an incomplete experiment will be almost useless if not a funny way to expend money and time..

So let's get to it
We need some instruments to get a real lab test
The more instruments the best
Thermometer
Multimeter
Lrc meter
Ph meter
Scale
Oscilloscope
High voltage probe
Current probe or low resistor
Pressure sensor
Tdm meter
Water polymer filter
Data acquisition equipment or arduino labview etc
Excel table
Pdf document with diagrams of the experiment
Calculation of electrode potentials, Gibs free energy etc for the experiment
Variable VOLTAGE DC power supply
diodes of different types
Copper wire
Transformer core
Coil formers bobbins
Winding machine
Sulfuric acid
Potassium hydroxide
Sodium hydroxide
Nitric acid
Ammonium
Potassium nitrate
Other chemicals
Palladium chloride
Platinum chloride
Palladium and platinum metals
Nickel metal
Copper metal
Zinc metal
Aluminum metal
Lead metal

Acrylic plastic
Polyester foil
Copper foil
Capacitors
Resistor wire
Resistors

Etc

I have most of this here at home..  I just miss some chemicals and metals capacitors and ph meter from this list.. I'm going after it so I can at least make some decent tests..

I think the best way to go for it will be make many electrodes with same size but with different coatings ti start with a couple of each
 Basic ss tube and rod
Gold
Platinum
Palladium
Nickel
Aluminum
Zinc
Lead
Copper etc

I think having this different electrodes sets ready to mount and compare results is essential if we want results comparable..

To be able to plate platinum and palladium we need to get a gold layer before using stainless steel.. other materials have different needs but the hardest are this..
There are companies that can make this just cost some money and is not soooooo  much . The hardest to find is to plate palladium and platinum.. at least here in Brasil if you find in your country some one who plates platinum metal and palladium make me know..  here I didnt found good sources.. only gold here seems to be on use.. at least for public

This plan I'm creating for myself just organizing ideas.. if any of you want to help me put it together I think will be useful for all

Somewhere we can place all this data in organized manner will be useful so we can compare our results around the globe..

We randomized the research for 15 years.. perhaps with some organization we can get there. Getting some what older is helping me to get things more seriously and organized since everyday I have less energy and time and will to lost time..

I plan to spend 1 or 2 hours a day on this to be able to produce something .

I have a 3d printer and so also I think is a good way to standardize some prototypes for us .. just need to design some simple designs to start with

I also have a small lathe and milling homemade here to make small pieces.

I'm trying to raise a business on irrigation controllers to raise money to get the time and the things I miss.
I'm launching the products sales soon and will make a English version so if you want to help me I can accept donation or you can buy yourself a irrigation system that you can control from wifi 😀and will be helping me get on.

I believe with some more 1000 dollars maybe some less I will have everything I mention here including hopefully the catalysts and electrodes coating and missing things...  I already have many things hopefully I had space to keep all that was important so soon I hope to have some more organized research. The most vital thing for me would be some help thinking and organizing, drawing and keeping the fire alive. Would be great to have someone here to help me not get stuck too I'm thinking to try to find somebody to just help me here fiscally too. So money is not exact the bigger problem now. I need more than it to be able to organize it so we can get it in paper and stop doing things ten times for after give up with jo results...

Have a great week my friends
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2020, 13:50:06 pm
Priorities in this order would be to have two cells with ability to change electrodes easy or more..
Standard test equipments such all us can use same stuf able repeatability of experiment with easy and cheap. Must have power supply variable dc with power meter..
Different materials of electrodes and catalysts
Different chemicals
Measurement of generated gas volume
Based in what I'm missing

Also

Test procedure model to fill with info of experiments
Table with calculations for chemicals nest eq etc electrode potentials etc
Plot graphs

Hope we can get somewhere doing this way



Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 22, 2020, 02:48:45 am
I'm trying to analyze the same concept from meyer's point of view .. I came up with this

Title: Misleading info out of way
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 22, 2020, 05:33:03 am
Perhaps bifilar coil is the only thing we need

I will explain

A bifilar coil have exact same induced voltage on both coils this makes a low or zero voltage of connect in series

From analyzing stan cell carefully again with calm I noticed some things I have though before but now made sense with all things I'm thinking lately

First let me explain my theory...

I believe stan used a bifilar coil for each two cells.

I think if we could have isolated cells would be much better to get it working.. so we need two identical cells electrically isolated from each other so they talk only capacitively

High voltage is what will make current flow..

I think will only work with certain electrolytes not all at all

Catalysts may not even be needed but again very very high voltage is required

Basically when we set up the voltage with bifilar coil to two cells at resonance we are going to have some current to flow because of the capacitance getting charged and it will be a leakage current..

However above a threshold of voltage water ions will start to be forced thru the bifilar coil in form of current.. if we need to change the resonant frequency capacitor can be added  and it will have an effect on leakage current also.. 

Now why we didnt succeed until now

We need to achieve 20kv 5amps in the tank using water capacitance and a bifilar coil of no more than 200 turns. 

I believe it must be air core..

Only at the correct voltage level we are going to see any result..

We need to hit it very hard at a minimum frequency to make it happen...

Two diodes should be used

I think catalyst electrode would show the effect much easier at lower voltage perhaps... I can be wrong in this... who knows

I'm 85% sure of all am saying

Bifilar coils may have center taps... some ac at different angle or frequency can be useful there..



Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 22, 2020, 05:41:23 am
I think meyer's cell is a mystery in it's own.. probably just taking some plastic piece it would not work anymore.

We are not far from getting it to work...
Title: Meyer technology open source
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 22, 2020, 06:47:37 am
Meyer wiper arm is now clear to me is used to balance how much current will leakage thru water...

Meyer talked about the bifilar coil it was true
He talked about series resonant and it was true
He hides how exactly the wiper arm goes
He hides one cell and one diode

Bifilar coils must have wiper arm so you can adjust how much one coil will induce into the water... this will control leakage

The input voltage should goe to center taps on the bifilar

I will show some drawing

Your welcome


Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 23, 2020, 10:20:03 am
I'm planning to make a 3d printerd coil former for the bifilar coil.. I'm going to make it probably one coil over the other such as to have a wiper arm over it on one of the coils... the coil must have a high Q so the smaller is the resistance of wire and permeability loss must be low.

Stan mention in patent it's a toroid.. this toroids for up to 50khz may have a k of 20..

The toroids must have a low capacity winding style and it will end up with very easy to access center taps since they will pass thru the middle of the core..

First this bifilar coils are going to be adjusted to get maximum resonance... than vt is applied to the center taps at the center taps the voltage between the coils should be zero.. is a equilibrium point.. this is why I decided to apply the voltage there first..

Stan graphs says that at a voltage threshold with current limited to a certain value gas will be generated on demand..

I was thinking and I guess what he achieved is basically the electric field that tay he han describe achieving dissociation  by collision

Above some electric field the dielectric will be so polarized that will disrupt the equilibrium that holds the ions equidistant... so ions can be made to oscillate at a resonant frequency... different water electrolytes and concentration will have different frequency
There is a simple way to track it.. we can apply a fixed frequency and slowly add electrolyte until the ions show oscillation... I think this oscillation can be view as a sort of voltage amplification on the cell if applying voltage to it with a huge resistor..  a huge resistor would have a large voltage drop so if meyer states that this resonance exist we may be able to detect it by using a high resistor in series with the cell and apply high voltage ac... if at a certain frequency the cell ions oscillates there should be a greater voltage drop at the cell or voltage gain at this frequency...

It's possible to predict this frequency as function of ions mass and distance in water..

Also the electric field required to disrupt is not necessary all at once since it's a resonance process

At the correct frequency using ac is possible to make the ions start oscillation, dc would be harder to detect is my perception.. since the flipping may have a more effective way to disturb the ions position...

So if ions will move maybe current will move also so probably we get a greater voltage drop so the cell voltage should become smaller in this circuit

For this tests I think we need a voltage potential high enough so maybe 10kv is not a bad idea... any high voltage transformer should do... but we need to add a resistor that will allow the reanformer to develop maxim power and should not be pulsed but have ac otherwise the noise could make things harder.. so if we get 10kv 1mega ohm resistor we have 10ma flow

The voltage are the cell should pretty much look like ac.. at certain frequency the cell voltage will gain and drop.. 

This is a key experiment to determine the best frequency to build the system...

Changing the electrolyte concentration will change the resonant frequency so the higher is the concentration the higher will be the frequency... and higher will be the difficulty to split them since the closer they get the electric field holding them in place become higher

When stan says well you can Raise the frequency and pick it little further he is limited by this... since a higher frequency would require more loss on capacitor it will also reduce the current required for certain voltage level...

The fact is there is going to be a concentration for each cell coil size to make it work...

He talking made somewhat clear that up to 50khz is easy to go ...

So a good test is to have a 10w  1megaohm resistor in series with the cell and apply from 1 to 10kv to it and track the cell voltage change as function of frequency

Having 10x 1w 100kohm resistors connected in series should do the job...

Thanks to steve I have here a power amplifier to be able to apply ac sine wave to a coil I'm planning using it for this. 

If with a current limited we verify that the voltage on cell rise it mean:
If current also rise it mean the cell impedance drops at resonance so current will increase
My cell can have 2kohm resistance with pure enough water.. 
If current drops and still voltage increase on cell than we may have what meyer describe
Would be great to find this out...
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 24, 2020, 10:26:16 am
We played in the past with that double cell setup and a lc tank.....
In tour schematic, the secondairy must have a higher resistance then the cells with coils....
I think that your setup deals better with the freed electrons and the bemf from the coils.
So it might be another way that works.
The question is on how efficient it will be and what type of isotopes it creates...


Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 24, 2020, 13:54:57 pm
Steve i think the idea would be to reach the megayield gas production... somehow I believe if we match the real water resonance with the electrical resonance the dielectric will not be able to keep the ions equidistant.. they will start to oscillate and when the reach a certain separation strange things may happen..

I'm not really sure what is going to be the mechanism that will lead to water split with no current flow... but my guess will be what tayhehan describe or the fracture cell... a high field will make the molecules to form atoms and than form diatonic molecules generating heat.

As you noticed I worried about leaving a free path for the ions to go.. I agree we made tests close to this in the past but I didnt had the knowledge or the ideas I have today about how to match the frequency and so on.

I'm starting to feel like it makes sense to get high resistance to water for making tests...

Things we know resonant frequency of water changes with concentration and type of electrolyte.. with this our chances would be already better

But if we manage to test this frequency in a controlled manner like with very very high resistor I fell we are going to make it.

You remember Dan danfor there was a 60w resistor somewhere

Anothe thing we know from tayhe and from david haitin patent is that the electric field required is in the order of 20kv/mm at very low water ion concentration..

I think if we deal with the screening of the charge by having a current to flow under resonance basically we start to have the chance to conduct the high electric field to water my impressions is that er just need to overcome it saturate the current on the electrode such as we can have a limitation on conduction of ions and perhaps increasing the cell resistance dramatically over it. This mean that the cell resistance should decrease while we increase the voltage and if we continue to rise the limit on current flow will be reached and after that the resistance will be the other two transport and availability..


Title: Cell size vs polarization curve of electrolysis
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 24, 2020, 14:48:33 pm
Polarization curves are awesome source of info

I checked Google for it and seems like 1 amp per cm2 is likely a point where cells will start to have very high resistance.. so if our cells electrodes have at least 30 cm2 we need more than 30amps to get there...

May have he fooled us? Or there maybe was something between those electrodes? Perhaps a membrane or some fill of some material.. maybe barium titanate powder... who knows ... just guessing here

But if we wanted to see some effect of high voltage on water we need to get the water electrode to be able to take away the ions of the way so the transport resistance will increase geometrically!

So the only manner to get the water to become a resistor of very high value would be to apply very high voltage current to it

There is two ways I see this

Capacitive discharge or inductive discharge

During a capacitive discharge we know the only limitation is resistance of the circuit so if we apply 1000v capacitive discharge we are indeed applying 1kv  subtracted by resistance and current product... so if above certain current water become gigantic resistance we simply just need to make it happens with an inductive or capacitive discharge...

Advantage of inductive discharge is that we can control by current while the capacitor will have maxim voltage first the voltage at an inductir will rise if resistance is raised in the circuit..

I think would be a nice idea to make a arduino program to draw polarization curves... so we can study the behavior of different electrolytes and concentrations on this..

I think with 40 amps diode in the circuit we should have thought about what is actually happening better..

Maybe and more probably the saturation current will be less at Lower concentration of electrolytes but would be wonderful to be able to simply test it wouldn't it?

I have a arduino current sensor somewhere 20 amps rated I'm thinking to make a program that draw a graph on the nextion screen for every 100mv change it takes the current value and plot to the graph than we can have a small section of electrodes maybe 2 cm2 and test with diferente electrolytes, ppm and so on.

Need to have a voltage reading as well.. let's say up to 100v so a impedance as function of voltage can be obtained too...
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 25, 2020, 11:32:14 am
Do not confuse kv for joules..
If you do a discharge of induction or capacitance, it is the joule that works.
1kv burst can last very short or very long...
Depending on resistance of the discharge circuit.

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 25, 2020, 19:14:21 pm
What i mean was that the inductive discharge for say we put 50 amps .. up to 30 amps water will have a resistance than the resistance increase exponentially
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2020, 16:33:27 pm
Questiono for you


How much resistance do you think we need to be able to measure water resonance

What is the minimum voltage with restricted current that will be able to put the water cell in resonance..

Will the cell show a voltage increase when drive in resonance?

Want your opinions...

Thanks a lot

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2020, 17:13:34 pm
Questiono for you


How much resistance do you think we need to be able to measure water resonance

What is the minimum voltage with restricted current that will be able to put the water cell in resonance..

Will the cell show a voltage increase when drive in resonance?

Want your opinions...

Thanks a lot

I can only speak out of my own experience, Fabio.
Brian and i got some kind of resonance with the alternator setup.
We charged the cell and powerd the rotor coil with charge coming of the cell.
So, the only time i got a workable charge back from the cell was when i charged it with 30amps or higher.

I posted some weeks ago the charging characteristics of a waterfuelcell.
Maybe that can help?
The resistance is a part of it...

I think that if you charge a wfc, how tiny and or with low amps, you should consider very low frequency pulses.
a 3 second burst till 3hz. Then shut the pulse off and extract / resonate the charge out of it, before the charge is lost in the electrolysis proces.

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2020, 01:00:32 am
I think it can help yes. What section you posted it?

My plan is to make a 1:100 transformer and have ac applied to it... on the secondary side I'm going to use a series of resistors arranged in series and parallel to give 1Mohm 80w

Than connect the transformer to the square wave source...

Instead of square ac we could use pulsed dc but than we need to add a resistor witha diode in parallel with primary to compensate the wave form..

Ideally would be nice a 100v square wave source resulting in 10kv ... but perhaps for test up to 40kv could be nice.. 40ma with 1Mohm 
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2020, 22:23:16 pm
Today I got 100x 100kohm 3w 5% metal film resistors
This are non inductive..  it lead me to think one thing

The plan is to arrangement them in series and parallel to have high power dissipation

Use 40 for 1Mohm 120w but I plan to put up to 40ma
This would be 1600w

So I will probably try to make it very powerful


Could it be that stan was talking about resistors when he talk about his resistive wire coils?

His drawings resembles to me non inductive resistor wirewound resistor..

Also I took a look at magnetoresustance and when the materia is ferromagnetic the electrons can split between up or down spin along the line.. 

So good to feel interested again..
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2020, 01:04:43 am
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=4121.0;topicseen
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2020, 08:29:05 am
Hey steve thanks for the link
 I took a look at it but you seem to be talking about very slow signals.. what exactly you mean with charging with 30 amps and get it to charge the rotor back?

And I didnt really understood how is you cell holding 2.5v what electrolyte you used? On the oscilloscope it show same value?

Title: Why we didnt figured it out yet
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2020, 10:41:14 am
I think most of us went in the wrong way unfortunately mislead by trying to just copy and hope it could work.. I guess millions of dollar were spend until now.

However there are some very simple things I have seeing nobody test yet. not even the most experienced guys..

I can talk for myself and even if I have done so many study around the subject i think I didn't succeed making the correct setup for testing. Only now after so many years things are getting clear for myself.

10ma flow at 10kv involve a 100w transformer capable of sustaining such power..
20kv capable of 20ma is 400w.. 

Only in the last few years I started to notice how far from the number stan talk about we are sometimes.

So first step I'm taking is making this dummy load of very very high impedance. With this 100 100k resistors I plan to make a 2.5megaohm resistor with 300 watts hope is enough to prove my idea.

In the Colorado meeting stan talk about using voltage to induce oscillation instead of current.

My guess like I described in this thread is that when we reach a certain electric field inside the cell the dielectric value will be disturbed and equidistant separation among ions will be affected.. if we oscillate at the resonant frequency it will simply fall apart and so water capacitor will exhibit a high voltage across it but this voltage is going to be of course much lower than the voltage applied.. I believe for 20kv only 500v will be impressed upon the electrode if we reach resonance..

Here is something new I think the gate may have a special function for

The cell may need to be shorted periodically to be able to generate power from it... I think for this a scr in parallel with the cell with a resistor to protect the scr from over current.. for example we have 500v on the cell and we discharge into a 10ohm load it will give 50 amps peak.. or maybe even a diode in parallel with the cell.. it will depend of what kind of signal the cell will give back when we achieve such resonance.. 

A p type material supposedly have a conduction of holes not of electrons.. so what would happen if we short the cell with a source of holes? Would it make a difference?


The resistors I got are non inductive..  I'm thinking if meyer waveform could be that way because of inductive properties of resistors.. somewhere he says that the wave shape may prevent a spark like or something like this.. he also mentioned  a out of resonant condition..

The q factor of this resonance may be very very high so only very close to the resonant frequency will have any signal change... and may be only around 50v or even less without the pll... 

The probe dp30k will be used for measure this voltage across the cell.. but the precision is not so great.. I'm afraid we need some different or better way to detect the resonance..

Perhaps adding a magnetic field around the cell will make the ions in cell to have a circular motion so perhaps could be easier to get a signal like MRI... all is needed is a coil around the cell and a choke in series with it... than simply measure ac across the choke applying dc to the inductor coil.

This method of detection may be easier and more accessible..  a step up secondary on the choke may help increase sensibility while isolate decouple from the dc signal... another way is to use a capacitor but will not increase sensibility.

If we limit the current to 10ma the signal will only be able to peak at resonance if the ions are really getting shaked by the potential electric field applied in the cell..
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 29, 2020, 00:15:03 am
Today the 100x  resistors arrived.. however the guy delivered 74 of metal film and 30 of wire wound.. all 3watts rated..

The nice thing is that I can test having some more inductance... too... maybe compare.. maybe even try with magnetic field...

I was thinking about and maybe the best way to get this high voltage required is by using a resonance tank

On the final device The primary may be arranged with a capacitor to match the resonant frequency to that of water.. and so if we have 1000 v in resonance on the primary a 1:30 step will make high voltage on secondary side... all that is needed is to push power into it...

That's why I say is so hard we tried to find a needle deep in ocean.. 

First to test we must need a real high voltage transformer with power enough to .maintain the minimum current needed to stimulate or kick in resonance.. 

Ideally a 800 watts 40kv transformer shoukd do it.. 

If working from 100 volts it would need 8 amps
It could sustain 40kv at 20ma... with a 2 mega ohm resistance...




Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 29, 2020, 20:21:42 pm
Hey steve thanks for the link
 I took a look at it but you seem to be talking about very slow signals.. what exactly you mean with charging with 30 amps and get it to charge the rotor back?

And I didnt really understood how is you cell holding 2.5v what electrolyte you used? On the oscilloscope it show same value?

It means that the power from the cell was fed into the rotor (thru a mosfet)

I did not use any electrolyte.....scope also showed 2.5v
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 30, 2020, 04:00:48 am
Do u have a diagrams of it? How you got 30 Amps at only 1.5 v? And the voltage was peaking after turn off?
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 30, 2020, 10:04:19 am
Do u have a diagrams of it? How you got 30 Amps at only 1.5 v? And the voltage was peaking after turn off?

Fabio, the leftover voltage is heavely depending on how much voltage you put in.

My alternator was unregulated. So it hit the wfc with 36v pulses.
So when you pulse the rotor and because of that also the power to the wfc, there is a short periode where the wfc acts as a capacitor.
Normally, you out max 5v to the rotor...
The charge of the wfc was after charging, enough for charging the rotor...

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2020, 08:15:17 am
I see so you are pulsing the rotor and spin? Could it be a residual dc?

I was thinking about one thing

A coil have many meters long if we apply high voltage to it it provides a charge separation and it is related to the electromagnetic field of the coil.

Voltage is indeed there but electric field is contained..
 Capacitor also have all its fields inside.. the thinner it is the higher is the electric field for a given voltage

How a resistor behave regarding its fields?

A long wire resistor will have pretty much same low electric fields as a coil but a resistor with high resistive material would actually have a very high electric field but the question is where this electric field goes?

I have the feeling that the power being dissipated on a resistor forces the electric field to go outside.. if that is true a coil with a resistor in parallel will affect the cell differently than simply apply just the coil

Could it be that tay he was using the titanate with some doping? Making it a very high resistor? Or maybe even the water penetrating the ceramic?
Title: Using resistance instead of dielectric to produce electric fields much higher
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2020, 09:20:04 am
In this video he teach how to calculate the electric field outside of a conductor.


Meyer talk about a structure made of binding material and conductive particles and talk about resistance everywhere..

Ceramics when wet become conductive specially if have impurities...

I was thinking what would be the electric field inside a resistor made of a two tube one inside the other? What's the electric field inside?

I mean what if we could build a cell made of 4 electrodes one inside the other having water in the middle and resistive material on the other two compartments?

I think I stumbled on something..

Title: Must read
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2020, 15:59:08 pm
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www1.astrophysik.uni-kiel.de/~hhaertel/PUB/Voltage-PdN.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjVoquslffqAhXNmeAKHaNpCMUQFjATegQIBBAC&usg=AOvVaw2hE3NsjYf9pggOdtxsiKuM

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://www.if.ufrj.br/~dore/Fis3/Assis_et_al.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwjVoquslffqAhXNmeAKHaNpCMUQFjAaegQICBAB&usg=AOvVaw3dazAyMtOURJ4Hmy-xywfX&cshid=1596189101529

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2020, 11:30:27 am
The drawing show what would the field look like if the resistive is charged from inside. With this configuration there is two resistances involved in charging.. one is water resonance r2 and the other is the resistance of the electrode element r1.

Consider r1 to be 1megaohms

And water to be 100ohms

If we use 10ma it will form 10kv on the elements but the water interface will only have 1v so although its opposite charge it will still make the element form a high electric field.. the high electric field should be able to deionize the ions however it will screen the charge so a diode can connect the two electrodes together with a coil... it will block the charging current.. but discharge the ions accumulated on the electrodes...

I think a catalyst would greatly improve this process although perhaps reaching high enough fields may dispense the need of it.

On this configuration apparently the ions are deionized in a region where it is at a voltage difference that should be able to let the ions discharge generating electricity..

So electrical energy is being consumed but also being generated..

The question is this relationship with resistances will tell how much voltage the electrodes are going to have.. this should dictate how much energy will drive the electrons on the discharge path.








Title: Does it make any sense?
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2020, 01:23:27 am
Does it make any sense?

The fracture cell patent talk about using the plastic to restrict the amps instead of the coils... eccles comment about stan coils being expensive.


Haitin mention tay he han patent so as fracture cell and talks about they didnt include some essentials to the patent. When he explained  about screening of charge..


Im Very interested again in this.

I need to contact a professor that helped me with barium titanate in the past and try to make some of it..

The main difficulty is the conformation.. because of the very high temperatures required..

Title: the fracture cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2020, 04:10:19 am
i questioned myself all this years how could we break the water and perhaps the answer was right bellow our nose

if we rub a piece of plastic we take electrons out of it and it get charged..it takes few microamps to charge to very high voltage..
 
all this patents were totally impossible to be figured without scientific eye over it.

this guys who invented this was really genius

eccles idea is hiden since it only show electrodes outside of water.. but he may have a conductor inside just to give those microamps required to charge the plastics from inside...

the beauty of this idea is that the plastic wont loose the charge ...

stan seems to have used coils for the same effect

the fracture cell kind of uses a AC signal to fracture the molecules... talks about small displacement current across the cell...

meyer also have a third electrode inside water... it may be the container itself, a bolt, something... just to give the charge to  the bath ......

hope to see your ideas on this...

making it clearer...

the idea is to charge the electrode from inside using a "virtual ground'  that is actually the charge source

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2020, 17:05:02 pm
What type of third electrode?
A plastic one?
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2020, 17:43:34 pm
I think metallic... the idea is to provide the initial charge to the electrodes from it..  from inside..

when we charge it having a resistivity of low ohms in water and we put a resistive element like the one in the drawing it become clear that a high electric field will exist there at the interface... it not very intuitive

basically it needs a sort of square wave field at the correct frequency and intensity to make the molecules dissociate by collision of the molecules with the freed electrons. Eccles explain this way, the ion transit times is much higher than the free electron speed so it basically needs the chance to hit the ion...   

the thing is water has no free electrons its in equilibrium... if we have a reference point that brings the water to very high voltage the electrodes will be at a lower voltage than the reference point because of voltage drop...

so the should result a voltage on the electrodes specially if its connected to a high resistance... it become almost an electrostatic field... my guess is that meyer eccles tayhe haitin all them used this in common... high resistance for having high electrostatic fields...

i posted a document must read,, where it explain surface charges... and it talks about the voltage as field and how it relates to potential difference

a real capacitor is not equal to an ideal capacitor

an ideal capacitor have no fields outside because the charges cancel each others fields inside

a real capacitor have resistance of some sort! so the thing is a real capacitor will indeed have a electrostatic field outside its plates... specially if one of this plates is a layer of water...

water have no free electrons but it has ions... ions attach to electrode because of the free electrons in metal and its ability to move... but they do not attach to a dielectric i guess unless there is a field to force it to happen

my idea is if we have a small electrode just to give the electrostatic charge to the electrodes and restrict from outside we may find that the electrode will be at extremely high voltage potential but current is not allowed to flow on its own...

Title: Charging backwards concept
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2020, 04:10:53 am
Its more like charge by induction..

The electrodes from this point of view must be used to take charge out and not to put the charge in..

Doing this way the electrode will be positive having negative ions running thru it but at same time some of the counter ions are going to the same electrode however much less since the field is held elsewhere..

I mean we use a very high positive point to give positive charges this charges goes to the electrode but as the voltage is very high it will actually attract many more opposite charges


In the bottom of the drawing you see the diodes

The transformer in the middle apply charge from inside

When is positive it can only go left so it will drive positive ions towards the electrode

The coil will restrict the flow of amps maintaining high positive voltage at the interface of electrode and water.. 

So the positive field will attract negative ions making the electrode be at a negative potential in reference to the other although its indeed positive.. but since charge came from elsewhere it can be the negative relative to the charge input..

A resistive coil I think would be ideal since the idea is to take advantage of the charge separation that will exist on the coils... coils maintain the current flow in a direction.. but its resistive component will still show voltage in the same direction since current didnt change direction since Is unipolar be cause of the diodes..

Need to start testing.. hopefully this week I will put my hands on it




Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2020, 09:44:53 am
How to measure all this work, Fabio?
Title: plasma electron oscilation
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2020, 10:18:54 am
http://www.columbia.edu/~mem4/ap6101/Tonks_Langmuir_PR29.pdf

plasma electron oscillation mean that ions are considered as being so slow that wont move so only electrons can move

i think that if we put a magnetic field the electron orbit will forced to increase and so the frequency should reduce.. 

i think eccles and meyer talk about this

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2020, 10:32:18 am
How to measure all this work, Fabio?

i think we need some manner to measure the power in, the frequency and the voltages and currents around the circuit.

if we are able to get some of the values some others may be deducible...

power input vs output

gas production rate etc

i will try to figure some way of detecting the electron oscillation too

i think if they found how to take this readings in 1929 we must be able to do it
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2020, 19:20:19 pm
i took a look again at stan patents and

 the electron extraction circuit extract electrons from water and its alternated with laser pulses and the voltage applied to the cell...

this tell me today from the perspective im seeing it that the cell brings the cell to a negative voltage. and that its common ground

im thinking of geting some powerfull flyback transformers designed for co2 laser its rated around 150w 40kv

Title: the real importance of the real bifilar coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2020, 17:04:25 pm
a bifilar coil of wire when pulsed will show exact same voltage on both ends!

this mean they could be connected in parallel and no current would flow.

however connecting a bifilar coil of wire to a wfc actually create a current flow between the wires

this is because of the voltage fields

meyer used it to determine the required turns of wire to compensate this voltage to zero up the current

meyer patent say to increase the voltage potential you need to increase the coils set proportionaly

to be able to restrict the current the voltage of the outer electrode will need to be a little higher than the inner since the field that is moving the electrons around the circuit is coming from the inside electrode.

so basically the best way to go is to really get a bifilar coil and start pulsing until find resonance of the water electrons..

than manage to compensate the coils to limit the current to flow further as to consume less power

perhaps 2kv could be a nice start... also i would put a power resistor shorting the coils to test the voltage out of the current flow..   

honestly the bifilar coils i made in the past sucks...  i think we could work with some 36awg wire to start with some good resistance...

the resistance following this perspective limit the current but consume power... stan 3 coils is about using voltage to restrict the current so the coil work cold...

so this is the 3 coils in stan circuit... im thinking about the diode yet but according to the fracture cell it theory it would not be needed... puharich also didnt seem to use one.. it may be needed for somereason .. meyer talk about it allowing the circuit to collapse... if that is the case two vics would be needed to drive a cell set like the fracture cell... simply two vics connected to one cell set for example.. such as to have the ac  across it.

Or maybe meyer way didnt need ac..
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2020, 16:21:52 pm
Good theory about the bif coil...
 Always room for better coils...hahahahaha
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2020, 19:19:28 pm
I think what impeded me to make such bifilar coils was that I thought it would get burn

I have somente here a wire that is triple coated and I think is the best way to go for the bifilar coils

I think the coating must be able to resist at least 5kv or higher...
Title: Bifilar electroscope effect
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 12, 2020, 01:27:03 am
Bifilar coil will have a force between the wires similar to a electroscope leafs...

Whether if positive or negative it will electrically repel each other.. the higher the voltage higher is the force..

If a ground is connected on one side the fields will be higher on the other side

I'm going to make a bobbin for the bifilar coils on the 3d printer and try to put all the wire in.. need some design

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 12, 2020, 08:35:20 am
More windings means voltage potential...means a bigger battery, means a bigger pull to watermolecules.....

Hmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 12, 2020, 14:55:24 pm
Yes the higher the potential the higher will become the force...

I was thinking about charging by induction post I did many years ago.

Two bifilar coils can also be used to charge by induction... because one wire will be able to induce on the other a charge... if we connect the second wire to a source of electrons it will get charged..


I was thinking about the bifilar coils and how to increase the self resonance of it...

First to have a Lower q factor it can be made of resistive wire and or have resistors between the layers such as to impede oscillation...

I think meyer may have made it with small bobbin cavities for reducing the self capacitance...

I think once we find the frequency we must go for a resonance tank to get Low power high output

First we need high power and find right frequency!

The self resonance of the coils should be much higher than the resonance of the coils and cell together...


Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 13, 2020, 08:30:55 am
I think you deal with capacitance of the wfc plates and the capacitance of the bif coil together.
And the inductance of the bif coil.
Then you can calculate the resonance.
Its a series resonance.
Like Meyer said.
Title: Re: Bifilar Electro Scope Effect
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2020, 05:55:05 am
Yes the higher the potential the higher will become the force...

I was thinking about charging by induction post I did many years ago.

Two bifilar coils can also be used to charge by induction... because one wire will be able to induce on the other a charge... if we connect the second wire to a source of electrons it will get charged..


I was thinking about the bifilar coils and how to increase the self resonance of it...

First to have a Lower q factor it can be made of resistive wire and or have resistors between the layers such as to impede oscillation...

I think meyer may have made it with small bobbin cavities for reducing the self capacitance...

I think once we find the frequency we must go for a resonance tank to get Low power high output

First we need high power and find right frequency!

The self resonance of the coils should be much higher than the resonance of the coils and cell together...

To adjust the resonance, leave a little space between the wires.  (Like Nicola's big one).  The air gap decreases the capacitance between the windings and raises the operating frequency. The inductance also changes as the wires get longer.

edit:  Intrinsic induction is missing from the bif.  But it can still pick up inductive fields.\edit

An ignition coil produces a vibrating leaf effect.  (There's your synchronous rectifier opportunity).
Title: Re: Bifilar Electro Scope Effect
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2020, 09:23:30 am
Yes the higher the potential the higher will become the force...

I was thinking about charging by induction post I did many years ago.

Two bifilar coils can also be used to charge by induction... because one wire will be able to induce on the other a charge... if we connect the second wire to a source of electrons it will get charged..


I was thinking about the bifilar coils and how to increase the self resonance of it...

First to have a Lower q factor it can be made of resistive wire and or have resistors between the layers such as to impede oscillation...

I think meyer may have made it with small bobbin cavities for reducing the self capacitance...

I think once we find the frequency we must go for a resonance tank to get Low power high output

First we need high power and find right frequency!

The self resonance of the coils should be much higher than the resonance of the coils and cell together...

To adjust the resonance, leave a little space between the wires.  (Like Nicola's big one).  The air gap decreases the capacitance between the windings and raises the operating frequency. The inductance also changes as the wires get longer.

edit:  Intrinsic induction is missing from the bif.  But it can still pick up inductive fields.\edit

An ignition coil produces a vibrating leaf effect.  (There's your synchronous rectifier opportunity).

Nice idea about the synchronous rectifier!!!

I was looking into stan design and I think he used multi bobbin cavities to reduce the capacitance perhaps... instead of many layers.  I found his design online but I'm going to design one for my cores..

I came up with some test ideas that may have a interesting result

The section about steam resonator on tech brief is one of the most important parts.. it describes with Meyers words what eccles claims regarding the formation if monoatomic than diatomic particles..

This lead me to believe that my fracture cell circuit that I build few years ago and left untouched is what I'm going to use now.

The switching mechanism is important if we want the coils to pulse in both ways.. so the primary must be pulsed in two ways but with a short interval between the reverse pulses to allow it to collapse both ways!!!!!

Further I will use two isolated cells connected back to back by a bifilar high voltage coil

A current flow is a basic requirement to be able to get away with screening of the charge and so effectively direct the high voltage fields where we want...

Counting only with capacitive isolation may not be enough and inductive is not possible to block dc that may be the reason why meyer used high resistance... only a high resistance can make the inductor discharge fast as to keep resisting flow of amps
Title: Infrared feedback
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2020, 08:10:38 am
Considering using a infrared temperature sensor for feedback on temperature rise..
Title: Resistor between layers of coil
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2020, 09:05:51 am
Adding a resistor between the layers will make the capacitance of the coils to get charged and may be effective in broadening the frequency of the coil response...
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2020, 18:22:33 pm
Its holiday time now for me. Spending quality time with my wife and kid...

Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2020, 19:01:36 pm
Great bro me too having a nice time with some close friends this bad times.. enjoy life is priority

I'm thinking ways of getting this stuf to oscillate and I found an interesting configuration of two transformer like in the picture in series but pulsed with 180 phase and having opposite polarity so it sum the voltages of pulse on and the collapse voltage...

I have the feeling that this will apply a much greater force on water because the voltage will never collapse to zero so it will form a very punchy ac wave

On the other side a coil former of resistors between layers to avoid resonance and allow the resonant charging effect ... it will double the voltage in the same direction when current fall... I think capacitors can be added too... to make it stronger... the resistors will limit the current thru the coils and impeed the capacitors to discharge... voltage will reverse on coils suming with the capacitors


Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 19, 2020, 15:05:31 pm
Did you know that you can get a positive bemf un as wel as the normal negative one?
Title: Water filter resistance
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2020, 03:21:24 am
I was thinking abou an experiment I did back in 2006

I made a roll of mylar foil around a center electrode and placed water inside the tube..  applied 40kv from a flyback tv transformer   and I got steam coming out thru the mylar foil layers...

May I have found a way to focus the high voltage on the water?

Well I was thinking a lot abou it this days... and today I had an idea

Old water filters made of a kind of ceramic could be useful to create high resistance on water placing an electrode on it will make the resistance very high.. 




Title: Diferent feedback pll
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2020, 10:08:35 am
I was considering the possibility of creating a different type of feed back to feed the pll and match the right frequency based instead of phase differences only on current flow. The scanning circuit may be able to bring to the point where current will have a change and when this is detected the frequency is adjusted in relation to current flow..  if it decreases it will change the frequency until it stop to decrease and if it start to increase it change the direction if frequency change..

I'm saying this because I'm not sure if will be possible to detect phase changes... since im using very high resistance the angle will stay kind of low.

Not sure what's going to happen.. ideally we would need something in parallel with the cell to give this feedback of the cell voltage peak..

So far I think the cell when resonate will develop a voltage across it so this voltage drop is what causes the current drop on the circuit. For example you apply 40kv at resonance the cell may have 2kv differential and so current won't be able to flow... 

If we were looking at a current peak it would be easier but stan clearly states current drops..
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 15, 2020, 02:12:42 am
Have you found a specific current to voltage ratio to maintain?
Do you know anything about PTC relays or expierience with PTC thermistors?
You should find that KNOWING what you want something to do in this realm will lead you to inevitably needing something thats yet to be developed.
Everyone here should know what it is you want to do or have something do and found the need to develop something yourself to complete your process.
Its exciting in terms of invention because in this hydrogen and alternative energy mindset,there is plenty of room for honest invention.
Good luck and God Speed !!!
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2021, 06:28:45 am
 :)

The Cells Must Be in Pairs

thank you for advancing the reason and thinking on the topic what they should be in pairs and thinking about water as part of circuit between them
thank you for considering that
1 may become base and 1 one become acid

we know we use zero electrolyte double distilled water
 so learning to advance technique with that fluid is valuable to understand and advance skills of the art and knowledge

Dan
Title: Re: Sequential high voltage distriuter
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2021, 08:50:04 am

 I THINK THIS IS TOTALLY RELATED TAKE A LOOK