Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Stanley Meyer => Stanley Meyer => Gas changer, the final step => Topic started by: Steve on May 27, 2008, 10:52:12 am

Title: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 10:52:12 am
Hi to you all,

The next step towards running an engine on Hydroxy is to change the state of the hydrogen.
The gas that comes out our WFC's is weak. Yes, it explodes badly, if you are not carefull, but still weak.
That means that you need lots of it. Many liters per minute and many amps to do so.

What did Stan Meyer do? He found out that you can change te state of the H2 atoms into H1
What does that mean?
For this you need to know what an hydrogen atom is and looks like.
See attached picture.

How did we get these crazy hydrogen atoms?
As the Universe expanded after its origin in a Big Bang, the hot soup of fundamental particles (such as free protons and electrons) started to cool down.  This allowed electrons and protons to pair up and form "neutral hydrogen atoms," (i.e. hydrogen atoms with one electron and one proton).  This process of pairing up is called "Recombination" and it occurred about 400,000 years after the Big Bang.  As the free electrons were now bound to protons, light could travel freely since it was no longer stopped by frequent scattering off the free electrons. 
(info: Nasa)

Hydrogen is our most simple atom we have.
So, we have 1 proton and 1 electron.

Now, what is the difference between a H2 and H1    (no, they are not HUMMERS  ;))
Its all about the orbit of the electron around the proton.
As you can see on the picture of the Bohr model, we have different kinds of orbits in were the electron can move.
n1, n2, n3, n4, n5


The closer the orbit to the proton, the lower energy state it is in.
So, we want to move the electron from the inner orbit to the outer orbits.

How do we do that?
How do you move and electron from inner to outer orbit?

What you should know, is that an electron releases light (photon particles) when is moves to the inner orbits.
So, what would happen, if you add photon particles to the electron?
YES, it moves to the outer orbits where they become more energized.
Electrons turning around them selfs. They turn around quicker in the outer orbit then on the inner orbit.

Ok, so we have to add photons particles.
What do we need to know from those little creatures?
We need to know that the electron around a proton consumes only some specific light-frequency's
Every orbit has its own frequency as you can see on the picture.
Stan used lasers.
We can whatever is possible. Make your own nitrogen laser, like somebody proposed..
Or use LEDS :)   

Now you know why Stan Meyer used LEDS in his latest stuff.
I think i told it all now.
Go find LEDS, or lasers and combine them with High voltage and kick those electrons in higher orbits.
When you solve that part, you can run an engine.


Br

Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 14:54:54 pm

 Then, apparently you are looking to run on straight Hydrogen, NOT HHO ???

  I PM'ed You, Stevie1001, and also Hydrocars, that I had the straight Hydrogen info on amounts per cylinder, to run a 350 cid Chevy v-8, and got no response.

  IF this is info wanted or needed, I will 2 finger type it out, and post it later tonight. Maybe I finally have something useful to add to this project ??  Gotta go saw some logs now.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 16:54:08 pm

 Then, apparently you are looking to run on straight Hydrogen, NOT HHO ???

  I PM'ed You, Stevie1001, and also Hydrocars, that I had the straight Hydrogen info on amounts per cylinder, to run a 350 cid Chevy v-8, and got no response.

  IF this is info wanted or needed, I will 2 finger type it out, and post it later tonight. Maybe I finally have something useful to add to this project ??  Gotta go saw some logs now.

Yes, please! This info is very welcome, Haroldcr

br
steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 19:18:26 pm
ok stevie i guess ill get in this discussion with my subpar cell and 3"x3" container---just for testing, learning.

but here is my question where do you introduce your leds, lasers, photons

im just a blue collar guy so if you could draw a diagram it would be greatly appreciated
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 19:57:47 pm
Awesome, thanks for the great info!!!

 I really think solid state (LED) lasers are the way to go....To me they seem much safer than the nitrogen laser....I'm sure the nitrogen laser works, I believe that's what herman anderson used, but at the same time his laser produced a soft x ray which required some shielding as i have read.

Also, after seeing your hydrogen atom drawing it makes me wonder if stan used multiple colors of lasers, or if the revolving lens (I forget what he calls it) in front of the laser changes the  light intensity (color) of the laser so only 1 is needed to be used instead of multiple ones.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 20:27:18 pm
Awesome, thanks for the great info!!!

 I really think solid state (LED) lasers are the way to go....To me they seem much safer than the nitrogen laser....I'm sure the nitrogen laser works, I believe that's what herman anderson used, but at the same time his laser produced a soft x ray which required some shielding as i have read.

Also, after seeing your hydrogen atom drawing it makes me wonder if stan used multiple colors of lasers, or if the revolving lens (I forget what he calls it) in front of the laser changes the  light intensity (color) of the laser so only 1 is needed to be used instead of multiple ones.

Thanks.
I also believe that this is the safe way to go.
I am trying to find the right LEDS. The idea is to use at least 10 of them on a row. 4 colors, as written in the Bohr model.

Jared: I will start to use these LEDS on Hydroxy gas. Not in the waterfuelcell it self.


br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 20:37:10 pm
dont mean to be a dummy but what kind of apparattus are you referring to, will each atom need to be subjected to the light, will the atoms revert to original state after time, what type of container will you use, what gain will you see with the excited atoms

exactly what is hydroxy
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 20:54:40 pm
dont mean to be a dummy but what kind of apparattus are you referring to, will each atom need to be subjected to the light, will the atoms revert to original state after time, what type of container will you use, what gain will you see with the excited atoms

exactly what is hydroxy

Hydroxy: mix of hydrogen and oxygen. Thats the gas you get out of your waterfuelcell.

The natural properties of these electrons, is that they always go back towards the proton.
I will suggest that we use a SS tube or a Mylar tube of 0.5 inch diam and 3 inches long.
Drill 40 holes in it of 5mm diam. Use 5mm leds.
Seal all LEDS with epoxy. This way you get a tube with LEDS that is air tight.
Connect that tube as close as you can to your engine or torch.
These are my thoughts. I am bussy getting all components for this.
Its new. Nobody tried it, except for Mr Meyer, i ll suppose.....

br
Steve

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 21:00:13 pm
Where do you think is best place to get the LEDs?
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 21:02:10 pm
These are the frequencys that I will use for this experiment:

656.46 nm  = red
486.27 nm  = blue
434.17 nm = blue-violet
410.29 nm = violet


br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 21:03:57 pm
Where do you think is best place to get the LEDs?

I found already 2 types on www.farnell.com
Still looking for the other 2 types on the internet...

Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2008, 23:52:30 pm

  My info is not too good. The book was written in 1975, and updated in 1980.
 

 
  I will try to make this as simple as I can.
 
  I just read that this info is for simulated performance of a 350 cu./in Chevy Engine. The engine was run stationary.  Info for actual moving of a vehicle is based on this.

  The output was limited by backfire to 60 HP. In actuality, the engine would be run
   with water injection or exhaust gas recycle, therefore, the simulated performance is EXTREMELY conservative.

  There was a 351 cu/in Ford engine, installed in a hydrogen fueled Gremlin, at UCLA. it idled at 600-700 RPM,
   with an ESTIMATED hydrogen flow rate of 6.5 gms/min. I assume that's grams ???

  NOx emissions were 0.003 gm/mile and fuel consumption of 40 gms/mile.
   That is an approximate equivalent to a gasoline consumption of 25 mi/gallon.

  This info actually came from  Prof. A. Frank , University of Wisconsin. Project on "Increased Fuel Economy in Transportation Systems by Use of Energy Management. (DOT-OS-30112).


           Chevy 350 cu/in V-8 Engine

Engine speed==1500--timing 68°BTDC-Fuel flow 20.2 gm/mn.
                          2000--timing 64°BTDC-Fuel flow 21.2 gm/mn.
                          2500--timing 73°BTDC-Fuel flow 33.1 gm/mn.
                          3000--timing 68°BTDC-Fuel flow 42.2 gm/mn.
                          3500--timing 66°BTDC-Fuel flow 52.0 gm/mn.

  Spark Plug gap significantly narrower than for Gasoline.

  Doesn't look like very useful info, huh ???
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 01:05:31 am
Thanks for posting this, Harold,

What interesting is, that these people used a 68°BTDC to run their engine on hydrogen.
Other people are telling to run AT  TDC.
As you can see, we have to run more tests and see what we find out for timing.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 01:38:10 am

 I probably should have added, this was a BOTTLE of Hydrogen, ran through an IMPCO LPG kit.  It had water injection from the carburetor, water from the gas tank. That is the diagram shown in the Booklet.

  Wish it was more informative.  :-\
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 01:43:51 am
My B20 engine is puring like a kitten at 2 deg. After TDC on pure H2, il look in on other timing too but makes more sense to me to hawe ignition as close to TDC as you can

Just a static timing since there is no carb when im runing pure H2

Need some more equipment before I can deliver consumption numbers

Il hawe some video ready when the new intake manifold is in place


Mr Brown/H2inICE
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 03:07:27 am
stevie, Ive made some simple test with 10 violet LEDS at 400nm. I saw no visible difference in the gas nor when i attempted to ignite it...

I still think we should further test this by pulsing the LED's and using a lot of them.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 03:16:40 am
if the hydrogen was resonating at 400 nm then it would be in a low energy state, and you can not see its energy state.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 04:01:39 am
in the right conditions the hydrogen will turn into a red colored gas that looks similar to to a redish pink neon sign
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 05:55:21 am
Steve:

Great Post. I have performed industrial radiography and have performed work with tubeheads, Ir-192 and Co-60. Here's some input to consider in conjunction with the LED's. It's a cut and past dealing with radiation and further discussion with black light below.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Theory of X-ray attenuation
A photon is an X-ray when it is formed by an event involving an electron, while the photon is a gamma ray when it comes from the nucleus of an atom. In general, medical radiography is done using X-rays formed in an X-ray tube. Nuclear medicine typically involves gamma rays.

The types of electromagnetic radiation of most interest to radiography are X-ray and gamma radiation. This radiation is much more energetic than the more familiar types such as radio waves and visible light. It is this relatively high energy which makes gamma rays useful in radiography but potentially hazardous to living organisms.

The radiation is produced by X-ray tubes, high energy X-ray equipment or natural radioactive elements, such as radium and radon, and artificially produced radioactive isotopes of elements, such as cobalt-60 and iridium-192. Electromagnetic radiation consists of oscillating electric and magnetic fields, but is generally depicted as a single sinusoidal wave. While in the past radium and radon have both been used for radiography, they have fallen out of use as they are irksome radiotoxic alpha radiation emitters which are expensive; iridium-192 and cobalt-60 are far better photon sources. For further details see commonly used gamma emitting isotopes.

Such a wave is characterised by its wavelength (the distance from a point on one cycle to the corresponding point on the next cycle) or its frequency (the number of oscillations per second). In a vacuum, all electromagnetic waves travel at the same speed, the speed of light (c). The wavelength (y, lambda) and the frequency (f) are all related by the equation:

f = c / y
This is true for all electromagnetic radiation.

Electromagnetic radiation is known by various names, depending on its energy. The energy of these waves is related to the frequency and the wavelength by the relationship:

E = hf = h (c / y)
Where h is a constant known as Planck's Constant.

Gamma rays are indirectly ionizing radiation. A gamma ray passes through matter until it undergoes an interaction with an atomic particle, usually an electron. During this interaction, energy is transferred from the gamma ray to the electron, which is a directly ionizing particle. As a result of this energy transfer, the electron is liberated from the atom and proceeds to ionize matter by colliding with other electrons along its path. Other times, the passing gamma ray interferes with the orbit of the electron, and slows it, releasing energy but not becoming dislodged. The atom is not ionised, and the gamma ray continues on, although at a lower energy. This energy released is usually heat or another, weaker photon, and causes biological harm as a radiation burn. The chain reaction caused by the initial dose of radiation can continue after exposure, much like a sunburn continues to damage skin even after one is out of direct sunlight.

Here's the whole article -->  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiography
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here is some more laymen term input.

Visible light can be prismed or rainbowed and Red Light is on one end of the spectrum and Violet Light is on the other end of the visible light spectrum.

On the Red End, if you go a little bit further you get micro waves.  On the Violet End, you have "Black Light" then you get into your invisible light called x or gamma radiation that can shine through bone, metal and concrete and develop film just like natural light develops film using a photagraphic camera.

I have also used "high intensity" black lights to perform different types of fluorescent inspections. About 10 years ago I had to quit doing the black light work. If I didn't, I would have started getting cataracts in my eyes. I reached my personal threshold with this stuff when one day I briefly looked at the light and it gave me an instant migrane. Protection with the gamma ray sources was via personal dosimetry, film badges, survey meters (geiger counters) and the old rule "double the distance and 1/4 the intensity" or "run away"  ;)

It's called the inverse square law. This is where it gets really interesting in regards to what we are all attempting with Hydrogen production.
See --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law

Luckily we don't have the real serious type health consequenses with black light and it's close to and works with the same principles as gamma and x-rays. My point...Intensity is substantially increased by reducing the distance.

Also thanks for the info on the 350 Chevy, Haroldcr. Now I know what I have to make and produce.  ;D

Flag
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 06:38:17 am
Here's some simple old school tube info.

--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube

Hmmm....Tungsten anode....needs electrons....what's the target.....

C/P --> As with any vacuum tube, there is an emitter, either a filament or cathode, which emits electrons into the vacuum and an anode to collect the electrons, thus establishing a flow of electrical current, known as the beam, through the tube. A high voltage power source is connected across cathode and anode, for example 30 to 150 kilovolts (kV). In many applications, the current flow (typically in the range 1mA to 1A) is able to be pulsed on for between about 1ms to 1s.

Now, what did SM say about how his process consumed energy?  ;)

Flag
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 09:52:30 am
My B20 engine is puring like a kitten at 2 deg. After TDC on pure H2, il look in on other timing too but makes more sense to me to hawe ignition as close to TDC as you can

Just a static timing since there is no carb when im runing pure H2

Need some more equipment before I can deliver consumption numbers

Il hawe some video ready when the new intake manifold is in place


Mr Brown/H2inICE

H2,

Is it possible for you to make a vid of your B20 running?
Is it running on hydroxy or a bottle hydrogen?

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 10:01:32 am
Here's some simple old school tube info.

--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X-ray_tube

Hmmm....Tungsten anode....needs electrons....what's the target.....

C/P --> As with any vacuum tube, there is an emitter, either a filament or cathode, which emits electrons into the vacuum and an anode to collect the electrons, thus establishing a flow of electrical current, known as the beam, through the tube. A high voltage power source is connected across cathode and anode, for example 30 to 150 kilovolts (kV). In many applications, the current flow (typically in the range 1mA to 1A) is able to be pulsed on for between about 1ms to 1s.

Now, what did SM say about how his process consumed energy?  ;)

Flag

Flag,

I seen the same similarity also for months now.....Its in the back of my head, till the puzzles pieces drops into its right place..

Br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 10:47:31 am
Steve:

Great Post. I have performed industrial radiography and have performed work with tubeheads, Ir-192 and Co-60. Here's some input to consider in conjunction with the LED's. It's a cut and past dealing with radiation and further discussion with black light below.

In a vacuum, all electromagnetic waves travel at the same speed, the speed of light (c). The wavelength (y, lambda) and the frequency (f) are all related by the equation:

f = c / y
This is true for all electromagnetic radiation.

Flag,
Nice to have you here on our forum.

The speed of light in the vacuum of free space is an important physical constant usually denoted by the letter c. It is the speed of all electromagnetic radiation, including visible light, in free space.  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light

Photons move at a speed less than c, unless they are travelling in vacuum.
The slow-down in condensed matter, such as gases, liquids and solids, can be considerable.

All this means that you get better results in a vacuum, if you wanna use photons.
I agree on your statement that the tube in which i wanna place these leds, must be small as possible.
The only thing where i am playing with, is the fact that Stan Meyer stated that he used an accelerator.
Meaning, that he was doing something with speeds higher then c, which could be possible, if i read all info well.


Travel faster than the speed of light in a medium
Although it may sound paradoxical, it is possible for shock waves to be formed with electromagnetic radiation. As a charged particle travels through an insulating medium, it disrupts the local electromagnetic field in the medium. Electrons in the atoms of the medium will be displaced and polarised by the passing field of the charged particle, and photons are emitted as the electrons in the medium restore themselves to equilibrium after the disruption has passed. (In a conductor, the equilibrium can be restored without emitting a photon.) In normal circumstances, these photons destructively interfere with each other and no radiation is detected. However, if the disruption travels faster than the photons themselves travel, as when a charged particle exceeds the speed of light in that medium, the photons constructively interfere and intensify the observed radiation. The result (analogous to a sonic boom) is known as ?erenkov radiation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_light


Anyway, I am not a physics professor....but doing my best to understand it all
If anybody has suggestions, please write them down , here ;)


Br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 11:04:28 am
stevie, Ive made some simple test with 10 violet LEDS at 400nm. I saw no visible difference in the gas nor when i attempted to ignite it...

I still think we should further test this by pulsing the LED's and using a lot of them.

CN,

Can you tell me more on how you did your test? What was your setup?
Can you send me the datasheet of your LEDS?

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 15:37:36 pm
Yes il do a video showing the engine runing on H2 from the botle, I don't like it alot tho since some ppl might whant to replicate this and blow them self up

Il make a warning in the video NOT to do this if you don't hawe the skills for it

Still short on some Y link's for the gasmix and such and the intake need perfection, but to run a regular ICE on H2 is easy enough

The area i'm hawing most problem is flow regulating since this is not a injection system, however that is next down the road


Mr Brown/H2inICE
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 18:15:17 pm
....Anyway, I am not a physics professor....but doing my best to understand it all
If anybody has suggestions, please write them down , here ;)

Br
Steve

I'm no physics professor either. When I recently starting reading up on SM's patents... things in me clicked. I just have a lot of practical experience with light, vibration and electromagnetism in my professional career. (Hands-On Stuff) I'm just getting started with my first design and from my training as a mech engineer I do my research first and go forward with the design. In regards to who gets there 1st, that's not important. If I can help the effort that's good enough for me. I just want my kids to grow up in a better world. Isn't that what life is about?  :)

In regards to the LED stuff, I played around with laser beams back in the early 80's in industrial construction using them for critical alignments (We used +/- 0.015” tolerances for distances of 180 feet. Thermal Expansion Coefficient of metal and 40 degree F temperature change between morning and mid-day really screwed with that job. The steel would expand and contract an inch over 180’.) Anyways, it was the red light type. Maybe a ruby or garnet or maybe a germanium crystal. I do know that germanium is great on the infrared side.  ;)

Here’s some more stuff on getting the LED intensity increased…

On the red/blue comparison side I found this... --> http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/electronic/led.html

Pretty simple with explaining differences between Red and Blue LED's.

Gallium nitride GaN LED's is probably the way to go. They are found in HD DVD Players and Recorders and probably the DVD “burners”.

C/P -->  A blue DPSS laser is an alternative to a blue semiconductor laser. They most often lase at 473 nm, which is produced by frequency doubling of 946 nm laser radiation from a diode-pumped Nd:YAG or Nd:YVO4 crystal. For high output power BBO crystals are used as frequency doublers. For lower optical powers, KTP or periodically poled KTP (PPKTP) crystals are used.
Whole Article --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue_laser#DPSS_lasers

In regards to pumping things real fast…What are we really trying to pump?

See Laser Pumping --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_pumping

Also, check out the Flash Lamp link in this Laser pumping article --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_flash_lamp

Also, Diode Pumped Solid State Lazers article --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diode_pumped_solid_state_laser

Thanks again for your welcome to the board.  :)

Thanks too for the push with getting a cell started and hooking it straight up to a 12v battery. You are right! I gotta start somewhere.  ;D

GBU
Flag  8)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 19:34:51 pm
hello flaghole welcome to the forum    how is it going    ;)   
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 20:44:53 pm
HOLY CRAP!

you guys are deep into this so let me cut this short for myself what can people like me do? work on electrode design ,bubbler design, im definitely not on par with many of you however i wanna do my part......i may be able to ante up a few bucks but it wont be much

just let me know ........weve all got to pitch in

p.s. im listening to alex jones right now, he really gets me fired up, also i just lost my job and will soon be working in the next state over and living there part time, which really sux because ive got a wife and two kids......weve gotta get this going our quality of life is beginning a sharp decline
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 21:12:30 pm
Jared, I couldn't agree more. I don't have a family, just a college student, but I don't want my life run by the energy industry like past generations. I'm just trying to keep up with these guys, starting at the beginning. Nothing can be lost by trying it for yourself!
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 21:30:13 pm
hello flaghole welcome to the forum    how is it going    ;)   

Pretty good topsykretts! Thank you for the welcome!   :)

Earlier I talked about Black light screwing with my eyes  :o years ago cause it's accumalative.

Here's why --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety

You all be careful...you hear?  ;D

Flag  8)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 22:59:00 pm
bigfoot im just an old bricklayer but im willing to donate a little time and money for this cause

the thing is i once called in to a radio talk show about automotive issues and i asked the host about hpower guess how he responded......i wanna see white papers i wanna see epa approval....in other words we will never be allowed to get this tech mass produced once we crack it we have to spread the technology at the grass roots level, next they will outlaw it  and begin a mass prosecution for energy violaters but we have to break the chains......even better if we can someday break the cycle of enslavement

stevie

how can we help would a few hundred bucks help you along, i may be able to send 50 and i bet there are others who would like to help

btw i have built a gen it just wasnt very effective my fabrication capabilities are not sufficient to produce much hydroxy, but i did prove the concept to myself and a few others and i believe that is very important just to show folks that fuel can be made from water

as a matter of fact i think it would be great if  we could have a working model with a torch just for pr purposes
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2008, 23:06:49 pm
This is my first time posting here. I have been a fly on the wall for a while now and this is very exiting stuff!! I had a question and it probably is a stupid one but if someone could take time to answer it it might help me understand this H2 - H1 process a bit better..

What would happen if you ran Hydroxy through a GEET Reactor?? Would it just ignite the Hydroxy prematurally?

Like I said probably  a dumb question but thought I might ask anyways and learn something..
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 04:08:34 am
stevie, Ive made some simple test with 10 violet LEDS at 400nm. I saw no visible difference in the gas nor when i attempted to ignite it...

I still think we should further test this by pulsing the LED's and using a lot of them.

CN,

Can you tell me more on how you did your test? What was your setup?
Can you send me the datasheet of your LEDS?

br
Steve

Emitted Colour : UV

Size: 5mm

Lens Color : Water Clear

Forward Voltage (V) : 3.4~3.8

Forward Current (mA):20

wavelength (nm):395-400-405

View Angle: About 25 degree.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 05:37:47 am
What is your opinion? about a taper sparkplug as per us patent #7198208  ( NOT a meyers patent ) . Its pretty much the water fuel injector meyers made .

http://www.newobjective.com/electrospray/index.html

http://www.newobjective.com/products/tips_online_tips.html#metal

I wanna make a sparkplug with a bullet style tip, insolated in the inside where the water is .Negative on the Outside . I just wanna do a mist test to see any difference in explosion strenght. A proof of concept if you will
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 08:31:43 am
I've been very intently following the progress of water fuel cells and magically found this site about a month ago. I have been studying for up to four to six hours a day/night on all of the concepts.  I am working on a couple of my first cells, my first ones were just for fun, but now I look to get a little more serious. I did a little experiment with SS washers and got a few other people interested in the hydrogen process (amazing what some quality bubble popping will do! :D).

I like to see the implication of using photons to change the state of the hydrogen being produced, as the laser was one of the first things I noticed in the Stan Meyers schematics on the videos, and was wondering when it would be implemented.  I'm excited to see Steve's results and Hydrocars' new plate cell and see what it can do with all the ionization stuff that he has been talking about.

As some one said earlier on this thread, the quality of life is dropping off fast for everyone and I would add that the gas companies are literally killing off Americans, not just in the war, but in the states by making it too expensive to live.  People are hurting, Bad!  As some one said the American way of life is dying.  I think you all know how important this is, but it might be even more important then you think.

I'm in the fight, well it's mostly you guys right now, but I'll get to that point.  Let's get some more test results going, love the youtube videos, keeps me motivated.  I'll hopefully be able to contribute soon.

GL, all,

Let's kick some Oil a$$!

Mr. Z
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 13:02:01 pm
bigfoot im just an old bricklayer but im willing to donate a little time and money for this cause

the thing is i once called in to a radio talk show about automotive issues and i asked the host about hpower guess how he responded......i wanna see white papers i wanna see epa approval....in other words we will never be allowed to get this tech mass produced once we crack it we have to spread the technology at the grass roots level, next they will outlaw it  and begin a mass prosecution for energy violaters but we have to break the chains......even better if we can someday break the cycle of enslavement

stevie

how can we help would a few hundred bucks help you along, i may be able to send 50 and i bet there are others who would like to help

btw i have built a gen it just wasnt very effective my fabrication capabilities are not sufficient to produce much hydroxy, but i did prove the concept to myself and a few others and i believe that is very important just to show folks that fuel can be made from water

as a matter of fact i think it would be great if  we could have a working model with a torch just for pr purposes

Jared,

Donations are very welcome. Hydrocars and me are paying all this testing out of our own pockets.
We know that we are so close to the solution of running engines on water with this concept.
Its good to read that you tried to make your own waterfuelcell  :)
If you need any advice on building, just ask.  ;)

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 13:07:29 pm
This is my first time posting here. I have been a fly on the wall for a while now and this is very exiting stuff!! I had a question and it probably is a stupid one but if someone could take time to answer it it might help me understand this H2 - H1 process a bit better..

What would happen if you ran Hydroxy through a GEET Reactor?? Would it just ignite the Hydroxy prematurally?

Like I said probably  a dumb question but thought I might ask anyways and learn something..

Hello fly on the wall :)
I think i wrote the diff between H1 and H2 in muy first topic here.
What exact do you not understand?

I have no experience with the GEET reactor.
Btw, the only dumb question is the one who is never asked.. ;)

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 13:11:29 pm
stevie, Ive made some simple test with 10 violet LEDS at 400nm. I saw no visible difference in the gas nor when i attempted to ignite it...

I still think we should further test this by pulsing the LED's and using a lot of them.

CN,

Can you tell me more on how you did your test? What was your setup?
Can you send me the datasheet of your LEDS?

br
Steve

Emitted Colour : UV

Size: 5mm

Lens Color : Water Clear

Forward Voltage (V) : 3.4~3.8

Forward Current (mA):20

wavelength (nm):395-400-405

View Angle: About 25 degree.

CN,

It is plausible that you didnt hit the 410nm with those LEDS....
I also seen your video. You are pointing the LEDS into the water.
I think it is better to point the LEDS into the gastube on top of your cell.
Just point on the GAS as close as possible.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 13:12:13 pm
What is your opinion? about a taper sparkplug as per us patent #7198208  ( NOT a meyers patent ) . Its pretty much the water fuel injector meyers made .

http://www.newobjective.com/electrospray/index.html

http://www.newobjective.com/products/tips_online_tips.html#metal

I wanna make a sparkplug with a bullet style tip, insolated in the inside where the water is .Negative on the Outside . I just wanna do a mist test to see any difference in explosion strenght. A proof of concept if you will

Nice info, Dankie!
Keep us updated about your testing. Do not forget to make pictures..... We love pictures here..

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 13:18:53 pm
I've been very intently following the progress of water fuel cells and magically found this site about a month ago. I have been studying for up to four to six hours a day/night on all of the concepts.  I am working on a couple of my first cells, my first ones were just for fun, but now I look to get a little more serious. I did a little experiment with SS washers and got a few other people interested in the hydrogen process (amazing what some quality bubble popping will do! :D).

I like to see the implication of using photons to change the state of the hydrogen being produced, as the laser was one of the first things I noticed in the Stan Meyers schematics on the videos, and was wondering when it would be implemented.  I'm excited to see Steve's results and Hydrocars' new plate cell and see what it can do with all the ionization stuff that he has been talking about.

As some one said earlier on this thread, the quality of life is dropping off fast for everyone and I would add that the gas companies are literally killing off Americans, not just in the war, but in the states by making it too expensive to live.  People are hurting, Bad!  As some one said the American way of life is dying.  I think you all know how important this is, but it might be even more important then you think.

I'm in the fight, well it's mostly you guys right now, but I'll get to that point.  Let's get some more test results going, love the youtube videos, keeps me motivated.  I'll hopefully be able to contribute soon.

GL, all,

Let's kick some Oil a$$!

Mr. Z

Good to here that again another person is getting the waterfuelcell  excitement.
Just add your project here and make some nice pictures of your progress.
If you need any help, just ask.
The LEDS and HV must do the final thing.
Lets get this going!

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2008, 14:50:44 pm

CN,

It is plausible that you didnt hit the 410nm with those LEDS....
I also seen your video. You are pointing the LEDS into the water.
I think it is better to point the LEDS into the gastube on top of your cell.
Just point on the GAS as close as possible.

br
Steve

Hopefully this will shed some light  ;D on the subject.

With gamma rays and protons you have to consider the medium you are traveling through. You have to deal with what is called "half-value layers" that the protons are traveling through.

Half-Value Layers cut the intensity in half. HFL's quickly attenuate intensity.

Click --> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Half-Value_Layer

In laymen terms, when using iridium 192 isotope for x-ray, for example, 1.75" of concrete will cut the intensity in half or 0.5" of steel will cut the intensity in half or 0.19" of lead will cut the intensity in half. I've had clients wanting me to x-ray pipe welds when they were full of water. I never did have good success with this even with increasing the exposure time 10-20 times that I would normally expose the pipe weld without water in it.

Nuclear reactors also use water as the primary shielding agent because of the half-value layers for radiation safety and protection. Also Lead and a lot of concrete.

Flag  8)



Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 30, 2008, 01:44:32 am
Check this out!

Click --> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/756433/laser_flashlight_hack/

This red laser will burn your eyes out. Be careful.

Will the red laser ignite the HHO gas?

-------------------------------------------

Here's a link to purchase the holder in the minimag. --> http://www.mfgcn.com/ (Just scroll down) They have some good prices, however, blue ray  diodes cost $140.00 bucks

Here's alternative source for blue ray  diode lasers --> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/906366/blu_ray_laser_phaser/

-------------------------------------------

L.A.S.E.R.  --> Light Amplicifation by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.

Basically you get a heavilly doped carrier which when stimulated will cause an electron to shift orbit around the atom, it cannot remain in this higher orbit so must drop back, as it does so the quantum shift dictates that the electron must release its excess energy, as energy cannot be created nor destroyed the energy is liberated as a function of the wavelength of the quantum leap itself generally a multiple of 1/4 or 1/2 the wavelength. Thus the excess energy is released as light. As the quantum jump is dictated purely by the atoms themselves and if the laser material is pure enough then the light will be all of one wavelength. Also built into the laser is a fully reflecting mirror on one end and a 50% reflecting mirror on another, this creates a standing wave inside the laser where light bounces back and forth inside the laser material. Due to these two effects the light is 1) Very pure and 2) In phase. As such it can and will cause retina damage if viewed directly even if the laser is not visible to the human eye. Low power lasers can cause lower damage but care should always be taken to observe strict precautions.

Flag  8)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 30, 2008, 09:25:47 am
Check this out!

Click --> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/756433/laser_flashlight_hack/

This red laser will burn your eyes out. Be careful.

Will the red laser ignite the HHO gas?

-------------------------------------------

Here's a link to purchase the holder in the minimag. --> http://www.mfgcn.com/ (Just scroll down) They have some good prices, however, blue ray  diodes cost $140.00 bucks

Here's alternative source for blue ray  diode lasers --> http://www.metacafe.com/watch/906366/blu_ray_laser_phaser/

-------------------------------------------

L.A.S.E.R.  --> Light Amplicifation by Stimulated Emission of Radiation.

Basically you get a heavilly doped carrier which when stimulated will cause an electron to shift orbit around the atom, it cannot remain in this higher orbit so must drop back, as it does so the quantum shift dictates that the electron must release its excess energy, as energy cannot be created nor destroyed the energy is liberated as a function of the wavelength of the quantum leap itself generally a multiple of 1/4 or 1/2 the wavelength. Thus the excess energy is released as light. As the quantum jump is dictated purely by the atoms themselves and if the laser material is pure enough then the light will be all of one wavelength. Also built into the laser is a fully reflecting mirror on one end and a 50% reflecting mirror on another, this creates a standing wave inside the laser where light bounces back and forth inside the laser material. Due to these two effects the light is 1) Very pure and 2) In phase. As such it can and will cause retina damage if viewed directly even if the laser is not visible to the human eye. Low power lasers can cause lower damage but care should always be taken to observe strict precautions.

Flag  8)

Hi Flag,

I have one one those and they are nice to play with...But you are right. We have to be carefull with those things...Watch your eyes!
..
I keep myself up to the 4 frequency LEDS, that i published here. I already orderd 2 x 20 LEDS. Still hunting for the other 2 freq.
br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 30, 2008, 14:17:44 pm
ok people,

I finished my research for the LEDS.
I hope i made the right choices.
I wrote all info here, but it is on your own risk,if you wanna order them too.
I just orderd my LEDS, so I can start doing some tests with them.

http://www.superbrightleds.com
434nm =
RL5-P0345 Pink LED
PINK Super Bright Led
440 nm / 300 mcd / 45 Degree Viewing Angle

656.46nm =
RL5-R2415 Red LED
RED Super Bright Led
660 nm / 2400 mcd / 15 Degree Viewing Angle
 
http://www.besthongkong.com
486nm =
BUCYC333W20BA08 20 480 3.5 Clear Cyan 6000 20
410nm=
BUVC333W20WUVG 20 405 3.5 Clear  UV 15mW 20

Br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2008, 00:05:39 am
just thinking out loud..........I have seen the youtube videos of plasma created in a microwave oven, obviously microwaved water just makes steam, but has anyone tried microwaving a very small quantity of hho gas........only a small quantity as you don't want to "blow the bloody doors off"..........or using some carbon with it as a catalyste to excite the HO to break its bonds  :-\

??????

There are more ways to get hydrogen.....
This microwave thing is one of them. Its not the way I walk at this moment. If you wanna try it, just go for it.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2008, 00:22:55 am
Can you please explain a little further………..reading up about ultraviolet light I understand that electromagnetic radiation has more energy the shorter its wave length. UV in the upper atmosphere collides and causes oxygen to form into ozone. A statement I found on wikipedia says that uv light with an energy of 10 electron volts or higher, “ are collectively called ionizing radiation since the energy in any such light quantum is high enough to 'kick' an electron out of an atom” however the only available uv light source I can find are from mercury lamps at 247nm, about 7 electron volts, too low to be classed as ionizing. To produce higher frequencies needs massive investment….
Ref:
 http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2008/01/28/bright-future-for-extreme-ultraviolet-lights

your leds appear to be only 5 electron volts at 410nm so not enough, 100nm wave length would be needed to achieve 10 e volts..............

i don't understand !!!  please help.......

Hi enlightening

The setup is going to be: 10 LEDS each for every frequency.
So, my LEDS tube will contain 40 LEDS of 4 different frequencys.
I orderd 20 of each, so if 10 doesnt work, i will add another 10 of each....

The amount of Electron Volts needed to make the electrons to leave the proton is 13.4 EV, btw....

My goal is to get the electrons feeding them selves with the right light/energy/photons, so they can move to outer orbits.
I am not sure if i can achieve that they will leave the protons entirly....(not sure if i can create 13.4EV)

The frequencys are well choosen. These are the frequencys who are absorbed by the hydrogen molecule.
100nm is not absorbed and will pass the molecule .


br
Steve

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2008, 11:44:31 am
Question………from what I now understand the energy level of the electron can be increased as you are trying but apparently the effect is not long lasting…..how long ?

I thought I read in your posts that you would expect the colour of the energised gas to appear red / pink……I can’t find that statement now, but I believe the colour change would only appear if the hydrogen atoms had actually been ionised and lost its electron.

I do not know either how long these electrons stay in higher orbits. I do know that Stan Meyer used an electron extraction circuit to collect the freed electrons. First i thought, and i also proved it, that it was for in the water. You can regain some power out the water after you charged it. But in this case, i am more and more confinced that the whole trick is to get as much Hydrogen Ions as possible. Therefore we have to get ride of the electrons. When you consume the free electrons, you will have less of them for the always happening recombining proces.

So, we have to get the electrons into higher orbits, or even to get them flying out of orbit. Catch the freed electrons with some kind of coil and put a lightbulp on that to consume the electrons.
HV also ionizes the gas, so if you have a combi of those 2 technics, we might get what we want.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2008, 12:22:31 pm
Oke, very good info.

Stan also mentioned this aligning of poles..
If that is what gets the higher energy state.....

I will read you posted URL tonight..Lets talk further on this!

br
steve, who has to clean the garden from his wife  ;)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2008, 18:18:53 pm
Catch the freed electrons with some kind of coil and put a lightbulp on that to consume the electrons.
HV also ionizes the gas, so if you have a combi of those 2 technics, we might get what we want.

br
Steve

This may be what your looking for steve

HydroMask
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2008, 20:25:40 pm
Yeh, Hydromask,

This schematic is now making all the sence of the world.
Its or pulsing HV or extracting electrons from the gas.
And of course the windows for the LEDS or lasers or whatever he was using.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2008, 21:50:45 pm
steve.....

it seams that when the electron quantum leaps it only stays at the higher energy level for a period of 10 to the power of -8 seconds (10-8s)....also when ionized the free electron imediately forms with the realesed photon to make a new hydrogen atom........however there is a higher energy state........................

An important spectral line in astronomy for measuring the gas between stars is the 21-cm line of Hydrogen.

This is in the radio part of the spectrum.
The n = 1 level (ground state) of H is actually "split" into 2 levels separated by a very small energy.
This splitting is due to the fact that the electron and proton have intrinsic spin, i.e. they behave like small magnets.
When the North poles are aligned the energy is higher than when they are not.
The figure below illustrates the "spin flip" that cause the emission of a 21-cm photon.
http://ltc.cit.cornell.edu/courses/astro101/lectures/lec08.htm

i need to look further to find how this is caused and how long it stays in this condition.............

br



Attached is a drawing thats shows the poles of the proton and electron aligned  when energized.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 01, 2008, 11:23:57 am
let me look at this from a slightly different angle............

As i understand it our gas is OH and H.............the single hydrogen doesn't like being along and easily pairs up to H2.............that leaves OH

..............ultra violet light makes ozone, so does HV corona discharge, would this not break the OH bond making very reactive ozone and also ionize the H and H2 making a step up in energy levels.......????

ozone info.....http://www.emanator.demon.co.uk/bigclive/ozone.htm

thoughts...............

br

Very good thinking and research Enlightening,

In our HV test, we seen a very colorfull and impressive flame, instead of the normal Hydroxy flame.
This is undiscoverd territory for me, so all help is welcome.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 02, 2008, 06:37:29 am
Steve:

Here's some info from aquarium hobbiest who also use Ozone and injects it into and mixes it with the water and...

UV sterilizers in direct contact with water...(UV sterilizers in aquariums use special bulbs in quartz tubes that are in direct contact with water.)

----------
... ozone can also be generated by intense ultraviolet light. The ozone generators sold by Ultralife fall into that category. These devices use a special light bulb producing short wavelength UV light (often 185 nm). During UV exposure at this wavelength, O2 molecules in air passing near the bulb absorb the light and are broken apart:

O2  -->  2O

As with electric discharge units, these oxygen atoms can then combine with O2 to form ozone:

O +  O2 --> O3 (ozone)

The manufacturers of these types of units claim that their advantages are that the air need not be dried, and that fewer nitrogen-containing byproducts are formed (e.g., nitric acid). Additionally, their bulb is said to last for two to three years before needing replacement. Competitors have claimed that these types of ozone generators lose about 20% of their rated output after a few hours of operation, and that the electrical power consumption is much higher for a UV based system than for corona discharge. The maximum concentration of ozone that can be obtained in a given air volume is lower (01 - .1% by weight O3 in air for UV systems compared to 0.5 to 1.7% O3 in air for dried air using corona discharge). Note that the UV type ozone generators' output often is not adjustable.

Also noteworthy is that these units are distinctly different from UV sterlizers. Ultraviolet sterilizers use a longer wavelength of UV light (about 254 nm, typically) and kill organisms by UV's direct interaction with the tank's water as it passes by. Molecules such as DNA in the organisms absorb the 254 nm UV and the molecules break apart, killing them. Ultraviolet light at 254 nm does not produce significant ozone.

----------

Interestingly, information above tells us a difference of 254 nm not cause much change to oxygen (in water) where 185 nm (in air) does.

----------

Ultraviolet radiation, referred to as UV or UVC radiation for sterilization purposes is a form of ionizing and non-ionizing radiation. UVA and UVB that are can reach the Earth’s surface are primarily non-ionizing and do not have enough energy to ionize atoms. However, the longer wave UVA and UVB can cause molecules to vibrate and rotate resulting in heating up.
The shorter wave UVC (used in UV Sterilization) light will ionize many atoms and molecules as compared to the even shorter wave Gamma Rays which will ionize most atoms.


Flag
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 03, 2008, 03:39:03 am
Hi,
I've been a reader here of these fascinating notes and projects, trials and errors. These are very interesting posts. I just read at - http://tuberose.com/Hydrogen_Peroxide.html (http://tuberose.com/Hydrogen_Peroxide.html)
that introducing ozone O3 into water will make the water H2O2 the water will take 1 oxygen leaving 2 (O2)... and H2O2 and this is Hydrogen Peroxide. What is the effect on our gas H, HO? Maybe this is to dumb to ask. Has anyone tried Hydrogen Peroxide? Any more radical bubbles? What happens to the O2? Hope you don't mind. It also states this is pretty healthy stuff.
Also look at the Aranizer - http://www.fernsnutrition.com/aran.html (http://www.fernsnutrition.com/aran.html)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 03, 2008, 05:42:24 am
This is interesting...Photo-assisted electrolysis

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6843903.html

Flag

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 03, 2008, 12:40:58 pm
Very good!

So Ozon is not the way?

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 03, 2008, 15:12:13 pm
hi steve,

no i think that ozone is the way.....

i was just reading stans statement as follows.

The Hydrogen Fracturing Process dissociates the water molecule
by way of voltage stimulation, ionizes the combustible gases by
electron ejection and, then, prevents the formation of the water
molecule during thermal gas ignition ... releasing thermal
explosive energy beyond "normal" gas burning levels under
control state ... and the atomic energy process is environmentally
safe.

ok.....the O3 is neutraly charged.........if electrons are removed from the O2 then it will become positively charged.............as will the hydrgen ion.
if both elements are positvly charged they will naturaly repel and no reaction.....but stan says this "prevention of formation of water.....releases the thermal explosive energy".....???????

i think the extra active Oxygen on the O3 is the energy for the enhanced reaction.and the formation of O3 gives extra kinetic energy to the hydrogen.

br James

James,

I think you are pretty on the right track here.
The thermal explosion in Meyers texts are normally related towards the Injector solution of him.
When you inject water into a cylinder, under pressure, and you ignite it, the water will thermally explode...
Water can be instable. Try to put a cup of water in a microwave oven. After heating, take it out and put a cold spoon in it. The water almost explodes....

So,what does Meyer mean with this? I think he is making a gas mix that is unstable and easely to explode thermally?
Remember that a Thermal explosion is much more violent then a combustion explosion...

my 2 cents....
Its getting more and more interesting

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 04, 2008, 05:02:36 am
Steve:

I'm looking more and more at the Blue-Ray LED

Blue LED inventor promises water fuel cells
http://www.theinquirer.net/en/inquirer/news/2005/10/27/blue-led-inventor-promises-water-fuel-cells

Nichia's new laser diode is able to emit pulsed light at 320mW
http://www.cdrinfo.com/Sections/News/Details.aspx?NewsId=19792

How light is made from the ordered motion of electrons in atoms and molecules
http://zebu.uoregon.edu/~soper/Light/atomspectra.html

Flag  8)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 04, 2008, 13:41:04 pm
Yes, frequency matters, gentleman..

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 04, 2008, 23:29:16 pm
I wrote this last night before the cable went down and kicked my computer offline. Now I'll edit it a bit.
Wow, "enlightening" excellent science. You have studied hard.
I have to ask have you tried, experimented with the laser or is it just of your understanding of the spectrum and these particular atoms structures. (you said you have tried)
Just for the sake of practical use I am as well as most here are more than willing to put this to use if I may speak for others. Sorry if I speak for others but I'm thrilled!
To be put to use you suggested the "argon flouride laser @ 193nm" the reason I'm asking is obvious as I am preparing to get a laser and as I think again we don't want to waste hard earned cash in the process. Great science on the other hand is no waste in my book and has to be experienced. As to the HV ionization are we speaking of more than 1 method possible? I mean a HV laser at 193nm or maybe the neon transformer or microwave transformer and 2 electrodes. Or both? Would these have almost the same outcome? What are your takes on the low voltage cheaper lasers verses higher voltage. Is the light coming from the laser any different as (HV or LV) it would be the same spectrum and low voltage lasers appear cheaper. Or will the gas feel the static nature of high voltage more. You may have answered the HV but I would just like to hear it again :). Now what about power of the laser as it appears at a 80mw range or more this could destroy the vessel we may use in production (a plastic housing). Should it have a focus length on it to bring it to a point or? The lower power what maybe 15-40mw would suffice do you think? James I appreciate your input, thank you.

I also read about the cones H2power it definately is worth trying as a step up in energy maybe produced as it gets to the point of the cone or tip if I remember right. Also there was a video on one site somewhere. The cones that they used appeared to me 2 or 3" wide as well as 2-3" tall and it looked good a ton of gas produced. That sparked my interests also.
These parts just don't come around so easy, one thing I can think of is food grade funnels as they should be made from 316l maybe. Some small funnels and you can make 2 different style cones from them small tight ones from the spout and larger ones from the body. What would be the gage of the stainless on the food funnels or cones?

I saw some muffler pipes called resonator tubes I thought to be of interest. But maybe to large (over 3" wide), they had what appeared to be a round pressed out larger cavity 3.5 or 4" and short tubess on the ends. Maybe cut in half would be nice if there was a matching size to put inside each other.

Sometimes these videos are not what they appear to be, they don't show all the pieces of the system. It seems that finally items like vacuum are becoming quite apparent as it does wonders and allows the use of HV and electrical emmissions in cells that may ignite if the vacuum was not there to prevent this. These high voltage circuits need protection, it appears if the vacuum fails then the HV needs to turn off. that seems easy.

oh well hope to hear more on lasers or other HV in this section.
John
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 05, 2008, 03:48:26 am
These are the frequencys that I will use for this experiment:

656.46 nm  = red
486.27 nm  = blue
434.17 nm = blue-violet
410.29 nm = violet


br
Steve

Steve:

Do you know if it is possible to fine tune adjust the nm value of the LED's? Also, will the ID of your SS torch tube be mirror polished or blackened and/or circuited for getting rid of electrons?

Good luck and be careful! I believe you are on the right path.

Flag  8)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 05, 2008, 07:39:35 am
yeah, when you change the temp of something you're definitely changing its frequency.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 05, 2008, 07:55:18 am
Well, I talked to the machinest today and he can't make the cone shape like I wanted but will make a small verson for me put on at the end of the tubes. That should get my testing to finally see if Meyer's graph data is right, and production goes up sharply. The way I understand it from a science point of view is at the base of the cone the area is the highest, and has the greatest capacitance and weakest magnetic field, and at the tip it has the lowest capacitance and the highest magnetic field. That is why Meyer calls it a wave guide and I think this suits the properties of water just right. For when water temperture changes up or down the resonance frequency changes with it, right? Now this cone shaped will have just the right capacitance somewhere along it's sides of the resonant cavity to keep up with waters ever changing needs. That's my thinking anyway.
br,
h2opower.

Are you saying make a cone tip on the electrode or the WFC housing?
And if the electrode, would it be on the outer tube or both inner and outer?
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 05, 2008, 11:38:41 am
These are the frequencys that I will use for this experiment:

656.46 nm  = red
486.27 nm  = blue
434.17 nm = blue-violet
410.29 nm = violet


br
Steve

Steve:

Do you know if it is possible to fine tune adjust the nm value of the LED's? Also, will the ID of your SS torch tube be mirror polished or blackened and/or circuited for getting rid of electrons?

Good luck and be careful! I believe you are on the right path.

Flag  8)

the leds are wide banded. Meaning, they go up and down 15nm. When you pulse them, you should hit the right frequency......

i received yesterday my first 40 leds (660 and 440nm)

about the electron extraction...i am still think about what will the best solution

br
steve








Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 05, 2008, 11:44:57 am
Well, I talked to the machinest today and he can't make the cone shape like I wanted but will make a small verson for me put on at the end of the tubes. That should get my testing to finally see if Meyer's graph data is right, and production goes up sharply. The way I understand it from a science point of view is at the base of the cone the area is the highest, and has the greatest capacitance and weakest magnetic field, and at the tip it has the lowest capacitance and the highest magnetic field. That is why Meyer calls it a wave guide and I think this suits the properties of water just right. For when water temperture changes up or down the resonance frequency changes with it, right? Now this cone shaped will have just the right capacitance somewhere along it's sides of the resonant cavity to keep up with waters ever changing needs. That's my thinking anyway.
br,
h2opower.

h2, when you make the top of yr tubes smaller, conish, then you will need  more pressure from the othersite, otherwise all gas wants to escape from the bottum of yr tubes...

steve





Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 05, 2008, 14:01:31 pm

 Where can I see a photo of this impossible to build, cone ??
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2008, 07:56:31 am
My B20 engine is puring like a kitten at 2 deg. After TDC on pure H2, il look in on other timing too but makes more sense to me to hawe ignition as close to TDC as you can

Just a static timing since there is no carb when im runing pure H2

Need some more equipment before I can deliver consumption numbers

Il hawe some video ready when the new intake manifold is in place


Mr Brown/H2inICE

Being a mechanic for the last 30 years, it would make sense to me for the timing to be at TDC or a little after since the burn rate of H2 is almost instantaneous. Gasoline on the other hand burns slow requiring more advance to get the whole charge lit. Propane, oddly enough, requires even more advance.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2008, 14:25:22 pm
I have finally got my LEDS.
4 different types for 4 frequency's.
The question is now how to mount them.
I was thinking about using a SS tube. Or should i use a plastic tube?
I wanna use 10 leds of each frequency. So, i will have 4 rows of 5mm holes in the (gas) tube.
When i look at TL light, they use a mirror/reflector for better results in adding photons into the electrons.
Plastic or shiny SS?

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 19, 2008, 05:13:06 am
My thoughts are in using the SS.

Reason 1: Reflective which would seem to multiply.

Reason 2: Eliminates outside frequency of colors from working to help or destroy what you are testing for, and it allows a more complete control of your environment for the test.

When you preform the test try doing a series in total darkness and see if there is any result. You can always allow light to enter the SS tube so that would not be a problem if you see that exterior light is needed.

Looking forward to hear how you proceed and what results you achieve.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 19, 2008, 06:48:49 am
I agree with Dr Not.  The more reflection the better, one would think. I would go SS, but it would cost more.  You could use a plastic pipe and put a flexible metal sheet or other reflective surface on the inside, however I feel that would be more work then it was worth.
 
I am also excited to hear the results of this experiment.  This is by far my favorite thread, and check it multiple times a day for updates!  Keep it up Stevie!
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2008, 15:06:48 pm
Small update:

I started with a SS tube and drilled some test holes.
After that, i have drilled my first 10 holes. Still 30 to go!
Every hole needs to be perfect...Man....i am no monck.....I hate that work...pffffff

After drilling, i have to bring it to my metalshop for polising the inside, or maybe chroom?
They also have to weld an smaller inlet and outlet tube on the ends for this 1 inch diam tube.
Its 1 inch by 4 inches long.
Because there will be 4 different leds in it, i have to make 4 different driving circuits.
But, he. If you try, then do it right... ;D :o
See what this all bring to us.

 ;)
steve

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2008, 05:38:24 am
Hi Steve.

This is going to be quite a light show when you get it done.

Here's a link on some inexpensive SS polishing compounds --> http://www.hobbytool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=437

I've had SS tubing plated before but it will eventially wear off. You probably need to buff anyways prior to plating. You might want to also consider a custom gun smith to do the plating if you want the "hard chrome" and you end up going this route. I hear they do a real good job on gun barrels. Try googling "custom chrome plating gun barrels". Maybe you might consider nickel plating, but chrome is harder.

--> http://www.overlandplating.com/faq.php

The hydrogen embrittlement faq link at the end the above link is also interesting.

Flag  8)
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2008, 15:33:15 pm
Hi Steve.

This is going to be quite a light show when you get it done.

Here's a link on some inexpensive SS polishing compounds --> http://www.hobbytool.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=437

I've had SS tubing plated before but it will eventially wear off. You probably need to buff anyways prior to plating. You might want to also consider a custom gun smith to do the plating if you want the "hard chrome" and you end up going this route. I hear they do a real good job on gun barrels. Try googling "custom chrome plating gun barrels". Maybe you might consider nickel plating, but chrome is harder.

--> http://www.overlandplating.com/faq.php

The hydrogen embrittlement faq link at the end the above link is also interesting.

Flag  8)

Hi Flaghole,

It will be for sure a fantastic lightshow in that tube! ;) ;) ;)

 ;)
 Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2008, 16:34:29 pm
hi steve,

how are you planning to verify your process?

br,
james

Hi james,

I was thinking  to put my leddevice between my wfc and my flame thrower.. ;)
See what happens when i turn the device on and off..I also want to swith each of the 4 freqency's seperatley on and off.
If you have any suggestions for more tests, please suggest..!

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2008, 18:00:43 pm
hi steve,

how are you planning to verify your process?

br,
james

easy now, if your talking about the ionization process than we have already verified that, adding of the lasers is experimental to make the gas more volitile, you see there is 2 things going on here, first you ionize the gas, this pulls great magic and makes half liter look bigger, depending on how good you ionize it determines how big the mass goes. Adding lasers is to convert from diesel like gas to gasoline like gas. Stan didn't directly say how it was done, but we know whats up to whom that would like to follow.

it is not going to be easy to get this on cam due to the fact of having to set valve settings, connect wires and hold a camera, im still waiting on my cell that i blowed up to get fixed. I have problems with stuff like this, i guess its because i test what i shouldn't be testing? anyways if somethings going a little to easy, throw a little dirt in your face to make it harder, if you dont something will give.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2008, 19:43:15 pm
James,

I understand the confusion. This whole thing of making more volume out of 1 liter hydroxy is easy to understand.
I will explain: Stan said that he made from 1 liter more liters gas... So how did he do that?
I started to make a gas heating system. See the pics attached to this reply.
The coppertube was heated by current, like 150watts.
The coppertube was to hot to keep yr hand on!
The gas got some heat and the gas volume output was increased by 10%.
The gas temp was just raised a view degrees....very little, like 4 degree's!
If my tube was longer, i would have had easy double gasvolume!
Bigger volume does mean less power per kubic mtr gas, because the amount of H molecules are still the same.
So Hydrocars started ionizing the gas..and he got succes too!
He changed the gas. Exactly what he produced in chemical therms is still a mistery, because we are not able to analyze that kind of stuff. What we do know is that the flame test was incredible!
It looked like a liquid-flame thrower!. Inches high!
So....now you know where and how this story / topic  started.. ;)
Its difficults to understand eachothers choice of words. ......hopes this clears some of the confusion!
 :) :) :) :) 8)


Br
Steve

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 26, 2008, 01:39:25 am

 
Quote
Now what I don't hear anyone talking about is a water recollection system to put back some of the water used into the tank. This would make the comsumption curve into a natural log curve, for every gallon used a ceretant percentage of it would be put back in for reuse and that percentage would do the same for a long time this repeats over and over. Thus this will make a gallon last for a very long time.


  In my "Spare" time, I have been putting pencil to paper on just this idea.   ::) ;D
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2008, 02:54:15 am
My name is Charlie and I own Overland Plating. I track my web site stats and got several hits from this site. Having no idea what it is I checked it out and seen the post about getting some of the parts plated, if someone could give me more info such as size, type of metal and the like I might be able to be of some help, I do plate many things besides firearms, thnx  :)@.com 
 
Charlie, I removed your emailadres. You can get trouble with publishing that so openly.
People can PM you thru the message service of the forum... ;)
Br
Steve
Admin
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2008, 05:13:49 am
HHO out of the steam generated of the ICE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pup2yGb1pqA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pup2yGb1pqA)


Mr Brown / H2inICE
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2008, 09:39:03 am
Wel(d) done, Browngas!

Kewl video too!
Looking forward to see the next ones!

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 16, 2008, 05:13:45 am
riddler you said you had a motor running of o hho  using the  bug zapper   what make and model engine was it  or how many  cc  also how much gas do you fell it would take to run it per minute   i was looking for the  section of the forum you set up for it but couldnt find it 
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2008, 04:03:35 am
A update video showing gates/ports being made and fittings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBOOzAATYQA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBOOzAATYQA)

More on this later, pressure testing and fitting in next video


Mr Brown/H2inICE
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2008, 11:41:36 am
A update video showing gates/ports being made and fittings

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBOOzAATYQA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DBOOzAATYQA)

More on this later, pressure testing and fitting in next video


Mr Brown/H2inICE

Nice welding, H2in!

br
steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2008, 04:20:23 am
So this is the latest video, showing the tubing, pressure testing and painting

More editing to do before next video

Hopefully test videos is around the corner  ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU3Hq1AgJEQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gU3Hq1AgJEQ)

Mr Brown/H2inICE
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 30, 2008, 14:23:07 pm
Showing the SS studs in the manifold for the HHO and H2, Steam is going to me injected under the air filter

The tank is over sized, too much reservoir for shorter trips and I'm going to use one of my smaller tanks as soon as I get the time to remake it

Mr Brown/H2inICE
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2008, 01:51:06 am

Now you know why Stan Meyer used LEDS in his latest stuff.
I think i told it all now.
Go find LEDS, or lasers and combine them with High voltage and kick those electrons in higher orbits.
When you solve that part, you can run an engine.


Kinda strange, you had to inject the energy pulse in the moment or shortly before burning because after absorbing energy and being energized to the next state it instantly emits a photon and "goes back to normal".
But as i heard he had the lasers on while splitting the H2O, much earlier.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2008, 01:07:19 am
work better is I actually place the links don't it?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eao4d6kwbbc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eao4d6kwbbc)


Me Brown/H2inICE
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 12, 2008, 22:30:46 pm
stevie1001

Hi, I am new in forum, but I working in the same way.

1.What I obtain into engine (motor) applying proton (into HHO generator) to electron of hydrogen molecule? What is the behavior of molecules after ignition?

2.Why you are going to use different laser if Mr. Meyer used just many of 935nm? You used different because you trying to carry the hydrogen’s electron to inner orbit, thus more energy. That is or I am wrong?

3.How we know that this new kind of energy will not damage walls engine, cylinder and piston head? You probably answer: Testing (is the best way to convince me), but what you think?

4.Is necessary to adjust engine before install generator, because I suppose explosion will be before of normal.

5.I am making a fuel injector water (I am mold/machine designer/builder) using Stan Meyer model, but I do not have the dimensions; I am just building it by intuition. If you have something else than help us…

6.The laser LED we are talking about, do not we need safety glasses for eyes care?

7.Laser LED have an expansion of 25º, but what is the range of them (distance)? If distance is large, and power still keep there, then we will need a shield, do not we?

8.I know you’ve seem this schematic (my HHO Generator is like this one), but I do not know which is the use of stainless steel donut coil. I wonder if it coil is for avoid recombination of HHO, or for increase production, what do you think?
(http://)

I have more questions but I do not want boring you.

Thousand thanks.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 12, 2008, 23:16:52 pm
stevie1001

Hi, I am new in forum, but I working in the same way.

1.What I obtain into engine (motor) applying proton (into HHO generator) to electron of hydrogen molecule? What is the behavior of molecules after ignition?

2.Why you are going to use different laser if Mr. Meyer used just many of 935nm? You used different because you trying to carry the hydrogen’s electron to inner orbit, thus more energy. That is or I am wrong?

3.How we know that this new kind of energy will not damage walls engine, cylinder and piston head? You probably answer: Testing (is the best way to convince me), but what you think?

4.Is necessary to adjust engine before install generator, because I suppose explosion will be before of normal.

5.I am making a fuel injector water (I am mold/machine designer/builder) using Stan Meyer model, but I do not have the dimensions; I am just building it by intuition. If you have something else than help us…

6.The laser LED we are talking about, do not we need safety glasses for eyes care?

7.Laser LED have an expansion of 25º, but what is the range of them (distance)? If distance is large, and power still keep there, then we will need a shield, do not we?

8.I know you’ve seem this schematic (my HHO Generator is like this one), but I do not know which is the use of stainless steel donut coil. I wonder if it coil is for avoid recombination of HHO, or for increase production, what do you think?
(http://)

I have more questions but I do not want boring you.

Thousand thanks.


Hi Marpacifico,

Welcome to this forum!
You know that only the first 5 questions are free of charge...... ;)

1. return to watervapor and clean air....accoording to what i know
2. How do you know that Stan used 935nm? My frequencys are the known frequency's of Hydrogen...as you can read here..
3. the engine will rust. So, you better leave the engine running all the time, or switch to gas before you turn it down....
4.  depends. if you can slow down the burnrate, then you better do not change the engine
5. Maybe one of the memebrs can anser this question...
6. Safety first!
7. well, use commmon sense, i ll suppose..
8. accoording to their theory, you make another type of hydrogen which has a slower burnrate....
I havent try that donut coil , yet. It should be an easy test. Run a flame with or without that coil...

br
Steve



Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 13, 2008, 01:15:32 am
answer to number 3
one of the main purpuses of oil is to lubricat the cylinder while lubricating it also cleans the black sut that  is poduced from you gas explosion so it cleans lubricats and protects so no worry from the hho but if mor heat is introduced into the chambrs this dependends about your engine alloy what is made off and how much can it handles .


Najman
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 17, 2008, 23:14:53 pm
These are the frequencys that I will use for this experiment:

656.46 nm  = red
486.27 nm  = blue
434.17 nm = blue-violet
410.29 nm = violet
Stevie, I wonder about those LEDs (I am going to prove anyway). In 2nd Bohr's postulate say: A Electron can jump from electronic level to other without go pass to intermediate state. Then, I can use just one LED 656 nm to carry the electron to n1?. What do you think? I am confuse.
I know we need the exactly wavelength to make jump Electron to other level, then what mean 2nd Bohr's Postulate?
Thanks.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2008, 00:18:19 am
These are the frequencys that I will use for this experiment:

656.46 nm  = red
486.27 nm  = blue
434.17 nm = blue-violet
410.29 nm = violet
Stevie, I wonder about those LEDs (I am going to prove anyway). In 2nd Bohr's postulate say: A Electron can jump from electronic level to other without go pass to intermediate state. Then, I can use just one LED 656 nm to carry the electron to n1?. What do you think? I am confuse.
I know we need the exactly wavelength to make jump Electron to other level, then what mean 2nd Bohr's Postulate?
Thanks.


Hi,

You mean that the electron can skip the other N orbits?
Hmmm, never thought on that...
Where did you read that?

br
steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 22, 2008, 18:07:45 pm
These are the frequencys that I will use for this experiment:

656.46 nm  = red
486.27 nm  = blue
434.17 nm = blue-violet
410.29 nm = violet
Stevie, I wonder about those LEDs (I am going to prove anyway). In 2nd Bohr's postulate say: A Electron can jump from electronic level to other without go pass to intermediate state. Then, I can use just one LED 656 nm to carry the electron to n1?. What do you think? I am confuse.
I know we need the exactly wavelength to make jump Electron to other level, then what mean 2nd Bohr's Postulate?
Thanks.

Hi,
You mean that the electron can skip the other N orbits?
Hmmm, never thought on that...
Where did you read that?
Here--->   http://venables.asu.edu/quant/Dinesh/Bohratom2.html
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2008, 18:45:48 pm
Hi Steve,

In regards to Marpacifico's questions (posted Sept. 12) the answer to question # 8 is to produce parahydrogen (and you are right) has a slower burn rate than orthohydrogen. It is used as one of several steps to address pre-ignition issues. In regards to his last post, I found similar information while doing a search on deuterium on Wikipedia.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_model

According to Herman Anderson, deuterium (heavy water) was essential in his process. Noting the low density of hydrogen, this also needs to be looked at. The process of electrolysis is one of several methods to produce it.


Xman
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2008, 21:26:15 pm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. accoording to their theory, you make another type of hydrogen which has a slower burnrate....
I havent try that donut coil , yet. It should be an easy test. Run a flame with or without that coil...

Steve
[/b]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What outside pressure you recommend to produce a constant flame? Or, please send me a link than explain about it.

Have you ever seemed this page http://www.gethydropower.com/products.html, they look make good job, and what do you think? I am thinking buy them the cheaper product and, of course, apply inverse engineering to this product.

This product uses an air compressor, behind that must be a pressure regulator.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2008, 13:44:57 pm
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
8. accoording to their theory, you make another type of hydrogen which has a slower burnrate....
I havent try that donut coil , yet. It should be an easy test. Run a flame with or without that coil...

Steve
[/b]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
What outside pressure you recommend to produce a constant flame? Or, please send me a link than explain about it.

Have you ever seemed this page http://www.gethydropower.com/products.html, they look make good job, and what do you think? I am thinking buy them the cheaper product and, of course, apply inverse engineering to this product.

This product uses an air compressor, behind that must be a pressure regulator.

Well,

They seem to sell stuff.
I personally do not have any experience with them. It is an easy way to start with this kind of cells.
Except when you think that you can do better, like i did and do.... ;)

Keep us updated about this. We all like to read about it.

br
steve

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2008, 13:50:11 pm
Hi Steve,

In regards to Marpacifico's questions (posted Sept. 12) the answer to question # 8 is to produce parahydrogen (and you are right) has a slower burn rate than orthohydrogen. It is used as one of several steps to address pre-ignition issues. In regards to his last post, I found similar information while doing a search on deuterium on Wikipedia.   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bohr_model

According to Herman Anderson, deuterium (heavy water) was essential in his process. Noting the low density of hydrogen, this also needs to be looked at. The process of electrolysis is one of several methods to produce it.


Xman


Each hydrogen molecule (H2) consists of two hydrogen atoms linked by a covalent bond. If we neglect the traces of deuterium and tritium which could be present, each hydrogen atom consists of one proton and one electron. The proton has an associated magnetic moment, which we can treat as being generated by the proton's spin. The spins of the two hydrogen atoms can either be aligned the same direction (this is orthohydrogen) or in opposite directions (this is parahydrogen). The ratio between the ortho and para forms is about 3:1 at standard temperature and pressure, but the para form dominates at low temperatures (approx. 99.95% at 20 K). Other molecules and functional groups containing two hydrogen atoms, such as water and methylene, also have ortho and para forms, although their ratios differ from that of the dihydrogen molecule.

Orthohydrogen is unstable at low temperatures and spontaneously changes into parahydrogen, but the process is slow because the kinetic barrier to interconversion is high. The conversion from ortho to para state is exothermic (releasing heat). The presence of a orthomagnetic substance in liquid hydrogen can induce rapid heating - an undesirable occurrence when one wants hydrogen to remain liquid. At room temperature, hydrogen contains 75% orthohydrogen, a proportion which the liquefaction process preserves. One must therefore use a catalyst like ferric oxide, activated carbon, platinized asbestos, rare earth metals, uranium compounds, chromic oxide, or some nickel compounds[1] to accelerate the conversion of the liquid hydrogen into parahydrogen, or supply additional refrigeration equipment to absorb the heat that the liquid hydrogen will give off as it spontaneously converts itself to pure parahydrogen.

The first synthesis of pure parahydrogen was achieved by Paul Harteck and Karl Friedrich Bonhoeffer in 1929.

br
steve

ps.

Any diatomic molecule that contains magnetically
active centers exists in isomeric forms that differ in
their nuclear spin configuration.

In the case of hydrogen, there are two isomers, parahydrogen and orthohydrogen.

The para-isomer with an anti-symmetric spin configuration.
and the triply degenerate ortho-isomers with symmetric spin configurations.

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2008, 15:51:14 pm
Britannica:

Physical and chemical properties » Ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen
Two types of molecular hydrogen (ortho and para) are known. These differ in the magnetic interactions of the protons due to the spinning motions of the protons. In ortho-hydrogen, the spins of both protons are aligned in the same direction—that is, they are parallel. In para-hydrogen, the spins are aligned in opposite directions and are therefore antiparallel. The relationship of spin alignments determines the magnetic properties of the atoms. Normally, transformations of one type into the other (i.e., conversions between ortho and para molecules) do not occur and ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen can be regarded as two distinct modifications of hydrogen. The two forms may, however, interconvert under certain conditions. Equilibrium between the two forms can be established in several ways. One of these is by the introduction of catalysts (such as activated charcoal or various paramagnetic substances); another method is to apply an electrical discharge to the gas or to heat it to a high temperature.

The concentration of para-hydrogen in a mixture that has achieved equilibrium between the two forms depends on the temperature as shown by the following figures:


 

Essentially pure para-hydrogen can be produced by bringing the mixture into contact with charcoal at the temperature of liquid hydrogen; this converts all the ortho-hydrogen into para-hydrogen. The ortho-hydrogen, on the other hand, cannot be prepared directly from the mixture because the concentration of para-hydrogen is never less than 25 percent.

The two forms of hydrogen have slightly different physical properties. The melting point of para-hydrogen is 0.10° lower than that of a 3:1 mixture of ortho-hydrogen and para-hydrogen. At ?252.77° C the pressure exerted by the vapour over liquid para-hydrogen is 1.035 atmospheres (one atmosphere is the pressure of the atmosphere at sea level under standard conditions, equal to about 14.69 pounds per square inch), compared with 1.000 atmosphere for the vapour pressure of the 3:1 ortho–para mixture. As a result of the different vapour pressures of para-hydrogen and ortho-hydrogen, these forms of hydrogen can be separated by low-temperature gas chromatography, an analytical process that separates different atomic and molecular species on the basis of their differing volatilities.

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2008, 16:01:36 pm
Here is the patent of XOGEN.

They descripe pretty much in detail how to get para hydrogen.
19hz is what seems to be the best frequency for the electromagnet coil.

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2008, 18:47:35 pm
i first started out replicating the xogen patent before i knew what stanley meyer was...and now from where i stand i think the only valueable thing you can take from xogen is their pwm circuit.....which i have......and their coil concept.......their pwm has 2 sets of pulses...one for hte electrodes.....and one for hte coil....on the off pulses of the electrode there is an on pulse for the coil....so that the pulses are interlocking......pretty interesting i have the entire pdf for the xogen replication....which is deemed......HYDROSTAR....or that run your car on water bullshit.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2008, 10:33:25 am
I have the Hydrostar pdf also.
They also show that coil on top of the tubes.

It seems worth a try.

br
steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 05, 2008, 21:40:14 pm
I was involved with the Hydrostar (or should I say Don Harper) for a short time. He sold 1500 of these manuals (last count) and was looking for someone to build them. The author of this manual fell off the planet and can't be found. I already had the Xogen model (very similar) & others and had previously been working on this. I found several bogus assembly procedures in this manual including encasing the coil in cement. The coil needs to come in contact with the water to do anything and came up with another design. I used a capacitor mounting bracket (inverted & modified). I insulated the screw hole tabs that usually mounts to a surface and this supported the coil secured with wire ties. The tabs (with the screw for tightening the collar) was cut off. I attached the collar to the inside surface of the inner tube. This allowed the coil to be removed from the housing with the electrode assembly for cleaning. I built one for a customer and it turned out to be a pretty good design. The problem with the Hydrostar & Xogen models is that they utilize one set of larger tubes. Don't waste your time & money with this design (been there...done that). You get much more electrode surface area from the 9 set smaller tubes (a la Stan Meyer). Someone told Don Harper that the coil sitting in water would deteriorate the core. I had a coil sitting in water (with potassium hydroxide) from January to May of this year and it had no ill effects on the core. He (Don Harper) has no technical knowledge and didn't want to listen to me (someone who does), so we parted company. I have maintained some features of the electronics; water level indicators etc.

Xman
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 05, 2008, 22:43:51 pm
I was involved with the Hydrostar (or should I say Don Harper) for a short time. He sold 1500 of these manuals (last count) and was looking for someone to build them. The author of this manual fell off the planet and can't be found. I already had the Xogen model (very similar) & others and had previously been working on this. I found several bogus assembly procedures in this manual including encasing the coil in cement. The coil needs to come in contact with the water to do anything and came up with another design. I used a capacitor mounting bracket (inverted & modified). I insulated the screw hole tabs that usually mounts to a surface and this supported the coil secured with wire ties. The tabs (with the screw for tightening the collar) was cut off. I attached the collar to the inside surface of the inner tube. This allowed the coil to be removed from the housing with the electrode assembly for cleaning. I built one for a customer and it turned out to be a pretty good design. The problem with the Hydrostar & Xogen models is that they utilize one set of larger tubes. Don't waste your time & money with this design (been there...done that). You get much more electrode surface area from the 9 set smaller tubes (a la Stan Meyer). Someone told Don Harper that the coil sitting in water would deteriorate the core. I had a coil sitting in water (with potassium hydroxide) from January to May of this year and it had no ill effects on the core. He (Don Harper) has no technical knowledge and didn't want to listen to me (someone who does), so we parted company. I have maintained some features of the electronics; water level indicators etc.

Xman

Hi Xman,

So you have tested this coil and you can confirm that this coil with it magnetic field works?
I mean, it really turn ortho into para hydrogen?
It really slow down the burning rate of the hydrogen?
Can you make a drawing of a coil that does this job?
Is the ideal frequency really 19hz?
I want to make one into my bubbler. This because i want to use it in comby with my dry plate cell, and that one has no space inside for a coil.....

br
steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2008, 18:24:42 pm
Hi Steve,

Actually, I haven't run any test on this but the concept seems logical.  This is what the Xogen model (and others) are using it for and I assumed they have run test. It's just a toroid coil and you're better off buying something pre-made. Winding coils is time consuming and a "pain in the ass" unless you have a coil winder.

Xman
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2008, 18:51:30 pm
Hi Steve,

Actually, I haven't run any test on this but the concept seems logical.  This is what the Xogen model (and others) are using it for and I assumed they have run test. It's just a toroid coil and you're better off buying something pre-made. Winding coils is time consuming and a "pain in the ass" unless you have a coil winder.

Xman

Hi Xman,

Thanks for being honest.
I wonder if anyone tried this.
Maybe i should do it .
I have some toroid trafos here which can serve the perpose.

 br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2008, 18:56:51 pm
Hi again Steve,

The coil needs to be in the same housing as your electrodes. But this is just for use in a WFC. The bubbler is just for flashback issues.

Xman
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2008, 09:40:32 am
Hi again Steve,

The coil needs to be in the same housing as your electrodes. But this is just for use in a WFC. The bubbler is just for flashback issues.

Xman

Why does it need to be in the same housing?
When i look at the schematics, it is prefereble not to do it in the same housing.
You only can switch on the coil, when the electrodes are switched off, as far as i can see.

Sure, i do know what a bubbler is...:-)
Why not use it to fill it up with a nice magnetic coil?
Besides, i do not have space in my platecell for such a coil..

Br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2008, 22:44:15 pm
it needs to be in the same housing since the coils magnetic field has to be close enough.........so step by step here it is....on the on pulse of the electrodes it split the hydrogen and oxygen then on the off pulse of the electrodes the magnetic field pulses on breaking the h2 into h1 at the moment it was just split allowing for this voltage stress or pressure to apply it's work......if you were to put it into a seperate housing it might not work as efficient.....so its good to have it as close as possible to eliminate efficiency problems.
Title: A very fine website with flash videos about electrons, protons etc!!!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2009, 18:40:14 pm
Go have a look!
This is good stuff.

http://www.flashsitedesigns.com/n8/intro.htm
http://www.flashsitedesigns.com/n8/N8.swf

br
Steve
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2009, 01:57:37 am
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/carbednotch/DSC03113.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i283/carbednotch/DSC03115.jpg)

Here is the coil 1/8" above the tubes submerged in water.
Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2011, 01:19:46 am
Hi, am wondering if theres been any developments with the gas processor?

i see these led values have been selected:
656.46 nm  = red
486.27 nm  = blue
434.17 nm = blue-violet
410.29 nm = violet

Was reading somewhere else - the values they selected are:
410nm 465nm 560nm 635nm and 780nm.

pictures of the SM gas processor minus air filter show a row of 7 Led's on each of 2 small pcb's, the spacing means 3 pcb's ans 21 led's were used..

pictures of SM gas resonant cavity show a row of 16 leds on 4 pcb's, this assumes on the whole 6 pcb's and 96 led's were used.

Another diagram labelled 3-9 led pickup circuit shows 12 IR led's and 12 IR receivers.

As i understand it, and please correct me for any misunderstanding, that the gas resonant cavity is designed for use with WFC's, and that the gas processor with air filter was designed for use with the injectors.

Is there any reason why the gas processor cannot or should not be placed on any ICE to increase its efficiency and to try to lower fuel usage, that is, without using any WFC or water injector?

Title: Re: The final step towards running an engine on Hydroxy
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2011, 16:57:14 pm
Well, its on the bench after doing some tests with it.
The amount of light is enormous, but it didnt had any effect on the HHO gas.
 
Steve