Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Electrolysis => Fuel Cells => Plate Cells => Topic started by: keithturtle on October 29, 2007, 07:01:55 am

Title: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 29, 2007, 07:01:55 am
The turtle has built three differing plate cell configurations, the difference found in the means of attaching and spacing plates.

As time goes on I will post those specific projects in detail to share the plus and minus qualites of each.

For now, drop by the photobucket

http://s237.photobucket.com/albums/ff213/keithturtle/

to see what's there.   I ain't got the bucket organised the way it needs, but that too, in time.


If anyone has a spare clock to send me, I've found something better than anti-depressants...

Take said ticking clock (it needs to be a working clock), place on an anvil, and swing a 12 pound sledge with vociferous determination, aiming for the center...

WOW...

Man, I feel better already!

Timeless Turtle
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 29, 2007, 15:43:14 pm
Thats a very helpfull tip, my friend Turtle.... ;D

Keep on crushing the time!
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2007, 03:35:21 am
Another plate cell design has emerged from the pond muck.

Acrylic slab sides, 61 plates 3" x 3" 24 ga 304 SS with the end plates a little taller for the only two connectors.

The plates got stacked in a fixture with 1/8" balsa wood in between each one, and the sides got treated with a combination of GOOP marine down the bulk of the center, and FUSOR brand structural sheet metal epoxy along the top and bottom.  Slap on the sides and let 'er cure.

The whole thing is ~9" long, and I'm jes finishing up a containment vessel that will facilitate circulation of electrolyte, as well as provide a modicum of flash-back protection.   Still gotta test it.

Driving it with 120VDC [rectified wall mains], not over 15 amps for now.

Turtle, still building
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2007, 17:43:24 pm
I’m in the process of constructing my plate cells with an arrangement of +nn-nn+ a total of 70 plates
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2007, 21:46:56 pm
Hi,

Just a question. Why do you use 2 neutral plates? Did you run tests on how many are the right choice?
I am very curious about this, because I have tested neutral tubes in the past.
I also wanna make a plate cell.
What size plates do you advise?



Br
Steve
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2007, 23:55:19 pm
With the circuit I could use a single plate config. +-+-+ but I’ve seen more production of hho with the neutral plates I mite use a single neutral plate or just stick with the double neutrals. I’m using the plate cell just to get more area exposed; I know that I need at least 1.5 l/m of  the hho gas to run a small lawn more engine.
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2008, 03:49:23 am
The neutral plates act like a voltage divider.   If you have only three plates in a stack and apply 12 volts to only the ones on the ends and no wire to the middle plate, you will measure 6 volts between the center plate and the end.

Interestingly, that center plate takes on both a positive and negative charateristic, depending on which side you touch the probe to.   That be why we call it a NEUTRAL plate.   It will have the opposite charge than the charge applied to the end plate.

This design is referred to as a SERIES cell; alot like yer batteries stacked in yer big ol' D-cell flashlight.

It gives you flexibility with yer voltage sources.

Turtle

Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2008, 11:21:35 am
Thank you, Keith

Thats why serie cell are fed by higher volts.
Can you tell us something about how many neutrals can be used, without use of chemicals?
I read that is not easy to to use many neutrals....
Can you also tells more about yr way of conditioning plates before use?

br
steve
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2008, 08:25:40 am
I condition them by using citrisurf, a process called passivation.  I haven't quantified the advantages of it on 316L, but it sure helps the cheaper 304 from scaling up quickly.

How many neutrals?  How about 59 in one cell?   Got a 61 plate (3 x 3 of 22 ga 304) powered by 120VDC thru a bridge.   Testing just started there, not looking too good, need more voltage control.

At this point, the only way to reduce chemical use it to tighten up the gap.  I have no numbers on that yet, but it's gotta be tighter than 0.065" (1/16th)

Still at it,

Turtle
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2008, 11:06:09 am
i say up the amps, get you some 3 phase going on there bud,, some kinda phase.
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 27, 2008, 03:57:14 am
I found a new adhesive for commercial applications of bonding metal to plastic.  LORD 201 with the 19 catalyst.   This glue can handle caustic wet applications.

I'm trying it on a slab-side acrylic cell ,and have come up with a construction approach that uses very little of this expensive glue.

I'll post a thread with all the details after it survives the initial testing phase.  If it survives.  They (LORD) had no information about electrolytic applications.

Turtle
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 03, 2008, 10:45:50 am
Update on the 201/19 glue- it is holding up well to moderate high power and 0.5 Normal  KOH  (that's about 2 tablespoons in a quart of water), fairly stout brew.

At 10 amps, the cell showed now signs of fatigue, unlike the 109 glue which let go after soaking for a couple months in #N KOH.  Granted, that was 6X stronger, but it still failed.


The above has me motivated to develop some tooling to make the side-slabs a bit more precisely.

To wit:  I have a dedicated table saw for cutting grooves in plastic to receive the plates.  The grooves are centered to line up with the plates, which are held with spacers in a stack.   They are measures for spacing, and then the fence is moved precisely that distance for each pass.

The precise movement of the fence is accomplished with a pair of dial indicators, one on each end of the fence.

I'm in the process of setting up threaded rod jackscrews to move it with more precision.

More as it develops.

Turtle
Title: Re: Plate cell construction tips
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 15, 2008, 08:36:24 am
Still working on the fence advancer.  Very little time to  devote just now, but I'm giving this every spare minute.  Hopefully there will be some numbers soon.

Turtle