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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on May 16, 2018, 16:28:35 pm

Title: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 16:28:35 pm
Hello i would like to drop here some of my theories and hypothesis as a manner to keep myself ideas organized to be able to proceed with tests and help others if want to follow and share some of the way because its going to make us all learn a lot.

I would start with the one main problem

the first main problem now for me is the frequency generator

it kind of  clear that if we are aiming to get a resonance v1 of the molecule to induce a symetric stretch on the molecule we must apply energy in a manner that it is in sync with this frequency even if only applied at sub harmonic frequencies .... the frequency is exactly 3227 cm-1 wavenumber or around 98.THZ for liquid water

the duration of the pulse also is important if we want to get this oscillation go well too because is not possible to produce such fast enough event to charge it only in the cycle it needs...

ok

so first confirmation of what i´m saying is meyer design of the circuits.. they are modular and enclosed in a very nice aluminum cover that is beautiful and also a faraday cage  it blocks whatever electromagnetic noise allowing the pll to work undisturbed allowing for a very stable frequency generation. Meyer had a such modular design that i believe that most of the part of his work could be a total different circuit than we found and it would still interface with the rest just with the same modular connections as such we could never have see some of the circuit.

im trying to find how to generate a stable frequency using a pll and i guess is not hard at all ...

if we make the band width very very narrow than we could change the frequency with a precision of maybe 0,0000001 or something 
but to get the resonance perfect we should have a manner to improve it to 0.0000000000001 this would be very nice

does anyone know how to do it?

if we could simply use some cristal it could get a very high precision though

but there may be a way to do a lc circuit that is what guides our frequency stability but this circuit should use a vacuum capacitor and a air coil to get more stable because temperature change would become a problem in components...

if all this is wrong than maybe is not necessary to get such precision...

the way i see it to get a proper ckt we should use a 25 turn trim pot for the vco manual frequency adjust and have a very good capacitor and components on the ckt as well... but the main important thing is to reduce the bandwidth to a very low number maybe 1 hz and use the frequency off set to manually tune to the resonance ... all this inside an aluminum box of course

maybe we kind of need two plls one for the electric resonance and one for detecting the water resonance somehow.. or maybe one main clock signal to restart the pll signal every time it start to get more precise...

please any help in finding solutions for this that is not not doing this i would appreciate







Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 17:20:45 pm
the second problem is to understand what is going at the ckt

the ckt deliver power to the water molecules in electric form and it ends up heating the water molecule vibrating it

of course there is going to be also a rotation sub sequentially as the pulse length we are going to apply could be too big

ideally we should apply the fastest powerful pulse as possible with the highest repetition rate as possible.

the repetition rate and the power of each pulse will result in the total power consumed by the system

that means is maybe not worth to use 1MHZ repetition rate with 1 watt pulses rather than 1khz 1000 watts per pulses

the system gives two different power to the cell one is dc pulses other is reverse spikes the ratio of the spikes is controlled by diode type or configuration too

during the pulse on the positive is sent to the cell thru the diode

when pulse collapse it sends this short spike to the cell

for this to be effective only tvs diodes to protect the transistor is used on the primary side but the spikes must be arranged with the impedance of the cell to get the power on the cell side... meaning that if there is too much power to dissipate on the primary side its going to require better handling with more tvs resistors there etc.. adding tvs in series raise the inverse voltage point and adding in parallel you handle current better as i explained extensively in my posts over last years

however if arranging the primary in series with the secondary is possible to get this power to go where we want easily

so basically ispossible for the secondary to collapse at 100 times the designed voltage for it if using 12 v and a 1200v igbt and this collapse voltage assuming the secondary has a low capacitance it would instantly sum with the capacitances of the chokes and bang

this ratio is also important

another manner to provide protection i just remember is to clamp the voltage too

this is a master way to get protection allowing the transformer to have a maximum collapse voltage while leaving the protection diodes undisturbed...

this is done by using a second smaller primary coil connected to the power source thru a diode... the ratio between the coils will dictate the collapse voltage multiplication factor and this multiplied by the transformer factor and input voltage gives the total secondary voltage

the impedance of the discharge ckt will be important to equilibrate the power in out and back meaning that it should last as long as capacitors of the chokes charge









 


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 17:50:59 pm
the greatest problem in my view is to start and do the tests..

i already have hundreds of coils and how to start all over?

well i will start with the circuit because it makes sense to me to get a new one designed for this

i will try to keep it simple to not waste time that is very lacking now

i may have all the parts here but i will need to get a new one designed to make the pcb done professionaly to get more compact and stable and it will be inside an aluminum cover



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 21:46:37 pm
Those are really high frequency's....
In ghz, you work with wave tubes, but i havent learnt anything on how to get into THZ
I even dont know if harmonics go up so high.....

Maybe you should think into sparkgap's with certain type of gas tubes.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 22:43:00 pm
Hey Steve good to get your answer.. actually the frequency we should be using may be in the audio range as stan stated but what i was meaning is that the frequency we hit the vic should have a terrahertz precision... like a clock! if we hit the molecules aways with the same tic it will increase the resonance... this phase is important if we want to do anything with water.. so i´m thinking that the best way to go is to get something like 10khz with a precision of 0.0000000001 hertz for example ... would be quite nice a start..

im still confuse on how to get this.. do you know how precise can a pll be? and a cristal?


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 23:10:09 pm
Hey Steve good to get your answer.. actually the frequency we should be using may be in the audio range as stan stated but what i was meaning is that the frequency we hit the vic should have a terrahertz precision... like a clock! if we hit the molecules aways with the same tic it will increase the resonance... this phase is important if we want to do anything with water.. so i´m thinking that the best way to go is to get something like 10khz with a precision of 0.0000000001 hertz for example ... would be quite nice a start..

im still confuse on how to get this.. do you know how precise can a pll be? and a cristal?

The best options are known by you. I would do a crystal oscillator with a 1mhz frequency and then use divider chips to divide that oscillator downwards to 10khz.
Something like that.

My 2 cents is that mother natur is not so exact....See Royal Rife systems...pulsed gastubes by use of a modulated 27mhz transmitter


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 23:35:42 pm
good one... i will think about that!  i´m trying to find out if is possible to use a microcontroler clocks signal this way would be possible to make the pll work in the digital mode only with code.

i have 3 types here the aruino nano the esp8266 and the esp32 i think all them have the 26MHZ cristal may be even possible that it also have the dividers inside...

its appearing to me that cristal is the best option too.. but i was wondering how can vary a very little the frequency? changing temperature?




Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 08:26:24 am
i found the eagle cad pcb of stan vic on tonywodside website so i will start with it but substitute some parts of it

i´m going to use a microcontroler to control and get readings from it like the esp32 it is easy to create a webpage to display all values we want
frequency meter
VCO voltage manual tuning
resonant scaning ckt
gate ckt
amp meter
voltmeter
temperature
pressure
flow

basicaly the microcontroler can do all the comands needed plus do all the readings and display them thru wifi in a webpage

i just recently worked on a project that is not so complex but works very nicely doing something similar, that is why now i know is the way to go ...
to do the webpage the esp32 even have a memory spiffs to save the webpage and with some javascript its easy to update values on the page using ajax and json





Title: new pll modular design
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 09:10:32 am
i decided i will create a modular design for the pll, this way it will be easy to get it done really fast and get it very organized

the pll board will have the pll chip and the feedback input and signal input only it will have an output chip too ir4427 or such

it will have a copper shield into the board covering the chip and components

i will try to use the best pll i have that is very high frequency one is 5v

outside this shield its going to be the freq dividers and the other connections

i will use a dual layer board so under the shield there will be some holes for the connections that need to get signals from outside for example.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 10:09:50 am
i found is possible to change the cristal frequency by adjusting it or manipulate the frequency with external components like a variable inductor.. this will give a tremendous precision on the frequency and it can be used with the pll too so interfacing will be easy

also there are cristals to work from 1khz up hundreds of megahertz
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 14:17:17 pm
This is the ckt i Will do

the L3 coil is responsible to give a low impedance during the pulse doubling time... working as a secondary dumping the power flowing tru L2 straight back into the power source
the pulse doubling is totally dependent on this! because otherwise the secondary work as a very high inductance during the discharge of the chokes energy not allowing the pulse to reach water it stop on the high resistance...

a diode in parallel with the primary would take the funtion of L3 but would also be a way to have minimum impedance as possible during off time
the resistor in parallel with L1 in meyer ckt is there for this to equilibrate the primary impedance when the secondary work as a part of the circuit during pulse off .. in my ckt i will probably add it too but i guess this arrange will not necessarily need it because of L3 function

L3 it also to clamp the voltage during the collapse

another function i gave to L3 is to provide the feedback for pin 3 of the pll this will allow the pll to sync in phase with whatever signal at 90 from it

the ratio between L1/L3 gives a multiplication factor so Vsecondary is = Vin * (L3/L1) *(L2/L1)   if the primary is in series Vout=Vin * (L3/L1) *(L2/L1) + Vin

the multiplication only occurs at the collapse of the field..


 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 16:55:25 pm
Allright....
Give it a go!
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 18:11:31 pm
i´m going to

i´m first deciding what i will do and how making some drawings and will take some hours to arrange the tests..

the ckt will take more time as i need to go getting some components and i dont have any mony but i will give it a try with what i have here


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 22:38:37 pm
i think i found  how to get the resonance on the pll direct with the current signal that must be 90degrees off from the voltage input

when the current reach zero it switch off basically

 so to do that maybe we could add a simple current transformer and directly send this signal to pin14 feedback

phase comparator of the pll is very sensitive i believe meyer may have used the opamp to get the signal cleaner and stable so it going to be necessary too...

it appears to me that meyer went to the simple stupid way and tried to reduce much components as possible by improving the design on the transformer and ckt..

meyer design apear to me as if he simplified it as much as possible but the feedback coil as it is makes absolute no sense to me

i tried in the past and i was remembering that i had to use a coil in series with the feedback coil that was on the core to get the current signal 90 off and this way resonance came out nicely with capacitors also work but was not so good as with inductor

i think i was not geting the right signal into the pin 3 of the pll and because i was not geting on the transfomer side ,, and instead on the circuit part




Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2018, 11:19:50 am
i had an idea about multipacting and it gave me another idea...

i was thinking how could we detect somehow the multipacting frequency to be able to tune into it ... and basically this frequency will be dependent on the voltage applied, distance, mass of the atoms and the drag resistance ... there are many variables,,, but one thing that happen when the atoms hit the plate that is that it may emit electromagnetic energy somehow that we can possibly detect! this way is possibly easy to make the atoms lose the electrons for good.. or another way to detect is when current change because when the atoms hit the electrodes it will liberate electrons with it

for example take the oxygen atom if its neutral it will have the form of O2 it can be ionized once and still remain a diatomic molecule
however as i explained elsewhere a neutral atom is attracted to an electrode by electronic polarization so it is attracted to the closest electrode possible... so a neutral atom close to positive electrode will be attracted to it and if the voltage is high enough it will be able to strip one electron from the molecule turning it into a positive ion when this ion is directed toward the other electrode the "negative" one its going to strike it with even greater energy that will cause the atoms to lose electrons and liberate further electrons from the electrode but this electrons is going to be atracted to the positive side while the atoms positively charged will remain at the electrode surface until it get electrons out of it 

i think meyer double choke system raise the potential of both electrodes in such way as to get the atoms to hit two electrodes being at high voltage positive potential and this causes the atoms to be striped off from the electrons when bouncing between this two electrodes
because of image charges when you have two electrodes charged with same polarity it will present zero voltage inside first because the electric field cancel out inside! this is important when you not using a tube for example but in the cilinder case it will not cancel
and this is what meyer is doing

the energy aquired by the atoms by the electric field must be enough to ionize it when it hit the electrode surface..

he even wrote the equation

so for this we need a double system like two secondary coils making high voltage pulses charging the inside and outside electrodes and perhaps have a external circuit for the electrons to flow when they hit the electrodes

the magic must be than to eject those electrons from the circuit such that it dont need to pass thru the high voltage coils because it would consume lots of power...

another thing to notice is that the water cell had the output ofgases on the middle of the inner electrode



Title: ECC
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2018, 15:43:34 pm
i think im reaching the conclusion that the main idea of meyer design is to indeed generate the hydrogen in the same method or similar to what is done with the ecc and for that reason is necessary to make a complicated analysis of what happen when and how or why..

i found out that if we can charge the water bath capacitance fast enough such it maintain it for a while when current is not flowing or is stable the current will have a slight change when the atoms cross the gap and reach the other electrode...  if the charging event is just fast enough and we can mantain the charge and look for a current peak we should find it

this will tell us exactly the transit time for the pulse configuration used...

we just need to ask the right questions meyer says

so here it goes how do we get track of a very small change in current when current is already changing ?

if the change is in the opposite direction we can have a chance  to look at it right?

my idea is to monitor the current and get track of any change like that and in my analysis its going to be used into pin 3 of pll as its a positive edge triger phase comparator

coming back to the ecc

i believe to get a diferent level exitation the ecc pulses must have increase voltage programaticaly withing the pulses so every pulse has a diferent voltage level which must be programed accordingly so is not a easy task

to do that we need a voltage source for each pulse and a system to connect each voltage to the primary individualy such to vary the pulse voltage

or maybe with microcontroler is possibly to do it digitaly seting the level of the current with bipolar transistor for each pulse and this really makes a lot of sense to me!

so we need a esp32 because it has analog output than we need to create an interface signal to control the bipolar transitor with it

we can than simply use the program to set each pulse voltage easily and independently by setting a counter and specify a voltage level for each pulse!!!!!! 

it would be important to create a section here in the forum if it does not exist for this microcontrolers and we must get more activeabout it
this is what is going to improve our abilities to get measurements we never took before
Title: the polarization curve
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2018, 16:02:40 pm
the polarization curve of water is simple to understand and its the function that represents the resistance of the water over current flow

1 when we put two metal plates on water of the same material they will have the same potential relative to ground this occurs because the water ions will adsorb in the material but this has a limitation so when we first apply a voltage to water this adsorbed ions create a exponetialy decaying current flow
2 they form a capacitor
in bulk the ions will have to travel all the way to the other side to give the charge so there is a resistive voltage drop too but this time is linear... if the voltage is such that there is not enough ions to sustain the current than the limit is reached so there is a invese exponential decay for that a total short... but after this condition is reached no more current can flow than what is already flowing and polarization current reach its maximum value and voltage is free to grow without current increase anymore!!!!!!! 
3 if the bath is isolated the bath itself is another capacitor and the plates or system comprising the plates is one of the electrodes such as the internal and external walls of the water bath this capacitance is what is charged to high voltage

i think meyer resonant cell can indeed be a simple hydrogen generator that already get the gas out very destabilized to be hones i think he than only exited ambient air too to get the power he needed...

its becoming very clear to me he was a very genius and i´m happy to have followed the science way to get it



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2018, 16:22:55 pm
another idea that came across my mind is that for example microwaves resonance is the rotation frequency of water molecule and is impressive how much the water absorption is drastically increased in this frequency and it quicly get heat as it can absorb all the power in the resonant cavity

meyer called his cell a resonant cavity and a resonant cavity is a place where microwaves can get confined and amplified

so if meyer applied a dc voltage in water maybe if we apply microwave too the force to rotate the molecule will work against the forces keeping the molecule aligned and bang

the microwave must be tuned to the cavity proprieties i believe or simply to the water propriety

a resonant cavity have a amplification of the signal when there is nothing to absorb it when something is inside like water the amplitude of the wave will reduce as power is being consumed
 do you remember the buggy? all that metal covering the cell?
Title: Resonant cavity frequency stability?
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2018, 17:09:03 pm
What is the precision in microwave frequency? could  be it greater than a cristal ?

i
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 21, 2018, 16:06:48 pm
I found that a microwave oven can have a very high electric field inside...  probably if we want to use it we must find a way to apply straight to water and have electrodes to tap the energy out rectify and take this power out recycled such as to reduce the energy consume

i tried to do it with a kind of water transformer but dint work as i wanted
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 22, 2018, 08:44:06 am
i found a far field calculator that calculate for a certain watts the electric field that is created when a trasmiter is at a certain distance...

if  the inner electrode of the cell or the cell itself could be used as a sort of antena the electric fields waves inside will be prety high likely tens of kv

Ronnie frequently told us all that it was a sort of impedance matching issue..

when impedance matches you can input power and it will all be dissipated on the load side the antena because its radiating

when impedance is not matched power is reflected to the source and so is not possible to reach maximum power out

is like a fuel cell if you dont have the right impedance load you wont get most power of it that is the point where current and volts are at maximum giving max power


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 23, 2018, 04:11:00 am
did anyone tried a very long like 100m of antena cable? as the choke?

they have 75 ohm impedance while we can manipulate the water cell impedance by geting some potassium in it

when  hit it at the right frequency we should see high impedance input while at the end its going to arrive a high current pulse that will be discharged all at once in water...

when i get some money i will try this...

can anyone help with that anyone with some cable siting at home could do some tests?
 
i would take connect both cable ground shields starts together and pulse it with vic primary secondary and diode...

send the wave down the lines

and hope it make a good way till water...

i think that with a standard config will be easier to figure out what is going on and how to interfere on it ...

there may be some high voltage silicon transmission lines available we should try to find somethink like that or create out of silicon high voltage cable .... this is way to go! i think the only drawback is that is expensive,...  but it can handle many kv 



Title: PLL tuning into transmission line resonance
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 23, 2018, 08:02:17 am
Found a way to use the pll to tune in a transmission line

simply at the end of the T line a small value resistor must be added with a very small transformer in parallel with it.. just before the cell. this will give the current signal when the wave  arrive at the cell and will be possible to tune to perfection

this signal must go to the feedback circuit pin 14 etc of pll

the primary and secondary does not have anything special about it but the input transformer must have the output for the phase comparator pin 3 of the pll to have all in sink thats because any delay in the signal will not allow the phase locked loop to look into the right phase...

to get the right phase both the signals going into pin 3 and 4 must have the same delay... meaning the same circuit to treat the signal... if one or the other is in delay the frequency will not be the exact resonant frequency nor will it be locked in real phase but will be locked in a delayed phase

i would be important to have a couple of the feedback circuit with same configurations to get the same timing

i imagine that adding one resistor to each TL end is possible to monitor the arrival of the pulses and tune it ...


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 23, 2018, 14:42:11 pm
Fabio, the pll king  :)
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 23, 2018, 14:58:28 pm
i´m trying bro ... hahahah;..  now to figure out all i did wrong in the past and what and  why  didnt worked...

the pll is a part of it i guess

another part is to make the cell to behave as a resonant cavity that could have a Q factor or at least a folded antenna

i imagine two coax coils will be good to be able to test properly the theory of traveling electromagnetic waves and how it impact on water...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 23, 2018, 17:05:40 pm
maybe some coax like RG 316 will be good for it ... is a bit expensive here in brazil. its thinner than antenna cable and is 50ohms impedance

the lower the  impedance the greater will be the power its able to give to the water.. 

i guess the best strategy would be to hit it with a square wave @1/4 wavelengh  and have a full wavebridge at the end connected to the cell

in this mode the cell will receive double dc pulses every half cycle





Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2018, 15:38:37 pm
what frequencys do you think you need for such a small distange?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2018, 17:48:19 pm
i believe its going to be something like 1 to 20khz depending on the cable and how its arranged... for example if we wind it on a iron former it may reduce the frequency  but will also increase the impedance somehow.. those 300m coils have a low frequency already but if we think about this TLs are even slower in speed so i believe it will be low ... this TLs speed are something around 66% of the speed of light...

there are high voltage insulation in this cables .. i saw some up to 10kv insulation ...

i would go for two coils with 100m to start with ,,,, than make tests over it about the pulse sincronization...
Title: Electrical Energy Recycling is possible?
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 30, 2018, 21:41:48 pm
I came up with an idea ...

when a transformer is pulsed the primary will reflect the source voltage in the primary and also proportionally into other coils around the same core

i was thinking about one thing please tell me i´m not going crazy

when we use a battery it can be discharged and charged again when we reverse the potential so basically for current to flow back into it is necessary to apply a potential greater than it has,,

the main idea is the following

a primary with a center tap and a a transformer connected to a battery or a dc source with a big capacitor in parallel being pulsed...

than a secondary having a full wave bridge rectifier connected to it

the positive goes back to the center tap while the negative of the full wave bridge rectifier goes to the cell

the negative of the battery goes to the cathode of the cell

basically this will force the current that charges the cell to pass thru the battery

will it work?
 
Title: wondering alternator
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 30, 2018, 21:44:20 pm
i wonder if the alternator wasn´t used for this reason... is possible to drive the alternator mechanicaly and electricaly

something like this

$ 1 5.0000000000000004e-8 37.11724081536377 33 5 43
r 320 256 320 112 0 1
v 96 160 96 80 0 0 40 100 0 0 0.5
v 144 272 144 208 0 2 5000 10 10 0 0.5
d 320 112 352 80 1 0.805904783
d 352 80 384 112 1 0.805904783
d 320 112 352 144 1 0.805904783
d 352 144 384 112 1 0.805904783
169 288 144 192 144 0 0.01 1.2 -2.6020852139652106e-18 -7.629126254644208e-7 -0.0000011057831893063197 0.99
g 96 160 96 192 0
g 144 272 144 288 0
f 144 176 192 176 0 5 0.02
g 192 192 192 224 0
w 192 144 192 160 0
w 192 112 192 48 0
w 288 80 352 80 0
w 288 144 352 144 0
g 320 256 320 272 0
z 208 208 208 144 1 0.805904783 500
w 208 144 192 144 0
g 208 208 208 224 0
r 96 80 192 80 0 0.001
r 144 176 144 208 0 20
w 192 48 384 48 0
w 384 48 384 112 0
o 0 64 0 4363 2.5 3.2 0 2 0 3
o 2 64 0 4099 20 0.00009765625 1 2 2 3
o 0 1024 0 4097 0.078125 12.8 2 2 0 3
Title: Re: Electrical Energy Recycling is possible?
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 02, 2018, 10:25:01 am
I came up with an idea ...

when a transformer is pulsed the primary will reflect the source voltage in the primary and also proportionally into other coils around the same core

i was thinking about one thing please tell me i´m not going crazy

when we use a battery it can be discharged and charged again when we reverse the potential so basically for current to flow back into it is necessary to apply a potential greater than it has,,

the main idea is the following

a primary with a center tap and a a transformer connected to a battery or a dc source with a big capacitor in parallel being pulsed...

than a secondary having a full wave bridge rectifier connected to it

the positive goes back to the center tap while the negative of the full wave bridge rectifier goes to the cell

the negative of the battery goes to the cathode of the cell

basically this will force the current that charges the cell to pass thru the battery

will it work?

It would work, ask bedini...
The more load you put on the secondairys the more load on the primary.
It would be a game changer if you found a way to break that connection....
Thrn make 10 secondairys to 1 primary and you have OU
Title: why did we disconsidered a coil in parallel with the cell?
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2018, 18:34:35 pm
$ 1 5.000000000000001e-7 9.78399845368213 38 5 43
r 144 80 176 80 0 0.1
c 416 80 416 128 0 6.8e-11 9.483366119026106e-8
l 336 80 336 112 0 0.05 -2.730252080917329e-10
v 96 128 96 80 0 0 40 100 0 0 0.5
r 384 80 384 128 0 10000
T 176 80 272 128 4 0.02 5 3.4225010994463303 -2.007285127930648e-8 0.999
f 128 144 176 144 0 1.5 0.02
g 176 160 176 192 0
R 128 144 128 208 0 2 1000 10 10 0 0.5
g 96 128 96 144 0
d 272 80 336 80 1 0.805904783
r 176 96 176 80 0 5000
w 336 80 384 80 0
w 384 128 336 128 0
r 336 112 336 128 0 10
w 416 80 384 80 0
w 416 128 384 128 0
w 272 128 336 128 0
d 96 80 144 80 1 0.805904783
d 176 128 176 96 1 0.805904783
z 224 192 176 128 1 0.805904783 1000
r 224 192 288 192 0 100
g 288 192 288 224 0
o 2 64 0 4362 10240 0.025 0 2 2 3
o 1 64 0 4354 10240 0.05 1 2 1 3
o 0 64 0 4097 0.625 6.4 2 2 0 3
o 4 64 0 4355 10240 0.8 3 2 4 3
o 11 64 1 4099 1280 1.6 4 1 640
o 3 64 1 4355 160 1.6 5 1 640
o 6 64 0 12546 1163.9263814757994 0.0001 6 2 6 3
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2018, 18:45:58 pm
it appear to me that i found a interesting way to give a reverse pulse to the water for good

when i  add a coil in parallel with a low resistance cell its not allowed to collapse its field to high voltage

however when the cell is very low capacitance and high resistance its indeed possible to have a very shinny spike while maintaining the gas output

one of my theories behind the working of the cell to produce gas on demand relies on the fact that water need to be stimulated to oscillate and this will get the covalent force down

the only way i see viable to make a molecule oscillate is to apply a voltage to the water in a manner that we can press the atoms together since is not possible to stretch them unless we apply a higher electric field than the one which holds it

if a coil is discharged into a capacitor it will take a period to discharge.. the higher is the capacitor or lower is its resistance the slower will be this discharge and lower will be the voltage of the collapse

if we instead try to press one against each other is easier since whatever reverse pulse if this electric field get into the molecule will work to reduce the original field

if the water is very pure it is a good insulator and it works as a capacitor



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 07, 2018, 00:32:38 am
$ 1 5.0000000000000004e-8 14.235633750745258 41 5 43
r 64 80 112 80 0 0.1
c 304 80 272 80 0 1e-8 73.62691716408511
r 400 48 400 160 0 10000
T 112 80 208 128 2 0.02 3 -0.13711733959149391 0.014717857910921502 0.99
c 304 128 272 128 0 1e-8 -73.62491718471439
d 304 80 400 48 1 0.805904783
d 400 160 304 80 1 0.805904783
d 304 128 400 48 1 0.805904783
d 400 160 304 128 1 0.805904783
c 432 48 432 160 0 1e-10 150.1499586041404
w 432 160 400 160 0
w 432 48 400 48 0
v 64 128 64 80 0 2 7000 100 0 0 0.5
w 112 128 80 128 0
w 80 128 64 128 0
w 208 128 272 128 0
T 208 48 256 64 4 0.002 30 0.014717857910911406 -0.0001267877721106906 0.999
w 208 48 272 80 0
w 256 48 400 48 0
w 256 80 256 144 0
l 512 64 512 224 0 100 -0.00012678777211475652
g 256 256 256 272 0
w 512 64 432 48 0
w 256 144 256 256 0
g 512 224 512 240 0
o 1 64 0 4354 320 0.05 0 2 1 3
o 2 64 0 4354 1280 0.05 1 2 2 3
o 20 64 0 4098 10240 0.2 1 2 20 3
Title: about the coil being in parallel with the cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 07, 2018, 10:24:33 am
Hello

i was wondering what would be the benefits of having a coil in parallel  with the cell...

in simulation it appear to me that the coil will increase the power output of the ckt whatever is the kind of the pulse in phase or during the off pulse

another thing that i noticed is that having the coil there allow for a high voltage collapse of the coil field dumping all the energy to the cell in a way that the only limitation to discharge speed is the cell resistance the higher the fastest will be the discharge and higher will be the voltage achieved

another thing that i was wondering is the follow

a coil will fight to a applied potential creating yes creating a back EMF in it self and other coils in the same core

its said that the back emf is what makes the current to start at zero and increase linearly with time

this back emf is in the direction opposite to the applied voltage..

what i´m trying to mean is that it reforces the original field that is being applied to it and cell during the pulse

and here it comes the interesting part

i´m thinking about if it has a low resistance it can create a preferable way for the amps to flow out of the cell instead of the secondary high resistance coil for example

so working as a multiple source of power to the cell (amplification maybe)

the more coils we add in parallel more magnetic fields can be combined into a bigger one more power is consumed but more electric field is applied to the water

when we add a secondary for example into this coil and make a current flow thru it it will run in the opposite direction cancelling part of the energy accumulated..

in my opinion it seems like this potential the coil will have during the pulse will act on water positively forcing it more than we imagined

it also creates a magnetic field in this coil that could be useful somehow to make this discharge happens

basically we can wind a coil in only two ways

one way the positive side will be a north and the other where the positive side will create a south pole.. this depends on the direction the coil is wound

i think maybe if we glue the coil on one side to a iron plate the iron will create a attraction force to the coil magnetic field

would this attraction allow current to flow?  thru it?

Title: resistor in parallel with the cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 07, 2018, 10:43:49 am
a resistor is another piece that i imagine nor i not most us have applied in parallel with the cell

a resistor will create a potential that is in the same direction as the coil with the exception that it wont create a back spike

the resistor will after pulse off maintain the charges on the plate because it create a external circuit with the cell not allowing it to lose the applied charge

normally a cell would discharge because of the disconnection of the power source because the ions that were attracted to the electrodes will find the most attraction to each other inside the cell

however if we maintain a circuit on the outside like a resistor in parallel or a capacitor it would help maintaining the attraction of the already charges to plates

for example on positive side oxygen atoms of water molecules will be near the electrode and also the negative ions.. the negative ions will discharge with the positive ions thru the resistor once the power is disconnected assuming the resistor has a smaller resistance than the cell

if no resistor the ions would find greater attraction inside the cell and leave the electrodes..

the coil case would give a bang on this ions in my opinion shaking up the system

the resistor would not

the capacitor would do the same as the resistor but would consume power to charge it and the discharge would be limited to its power handling... if the capacitance is much higher than the cell it would maintain the plates charged otherwise they would quick discharge as the capacitor charge goes away

the resistor could be connected to the cell in parallel at the moment just before the pulse stop to have less power consume on it for example






Title: if we know...
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2018, 02:58:23 am
if we know that water cannot hold a charge for a long time why not to hit it at a higher frequency:?

i was looking into how a transmitter circuit works to try to see the parts used

http://500kc.com/N4ICK/index.htm (http://500kc.com/N4ICK/index.htm)

mainly water is used in capacitors for xray very short pulse because it if very pure can hold a charge for some microseconds depending on the purity of the system

i read that up to 100kv/cm is a working range

is our case as we need to induce the resonance on the molecule it must be done in very fast scale to unlock the atoms from their configuration

as per meyers words electrons will get momentarily into another lower attraction state configuration at the break point

so how to put 100w into water in form of high voltage at high frequency enough to let it hold the charge ?

Title: do you believe?
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2018, 04:03:55 am
i was thinking about how to get this pulses to water

i believe meyer could have used multiple vics with a certain timing to apply a sequence of pulses or a pulse train

it basicaly is a sequence of pulses  that start being charged one after the other and is discharged in same manner

like a multiphase system

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2018, 09:32:57 am
i believe you want to read this paper entirely
Title: some books i would like to find
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2018, 10:40:10 am
Transient Electronics by paul w smith
Pulsed power Gennady A. Mesyats

if any of you can find the full pdf please

thanks
Title: matching impedance
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2018, 12:31:41 pm
matching impedance is how antenas are tuned to transmit the power it receives without having reflections

inductors and capacitors can be used as matching impedance to make just the same thing on water capacitor

water capacitor however will have a reflection because its a capacitor not an antena

well lets back to impedance matching

to impedance match you need

define frequency ex 5khz

define the load impedance (dc impedance of the load for ex)

find and inductor and a capacitor that has this reactance at this frequency

put them in series with input transformer and a full wave bridge rectifier with water as dc load and apply the power to the resonant circuit

at the matched condition meyer waveform will appear ... Q factor will be 1 so no overheat of the coils meaning maximum power can be applied into it

this is the simplest it can get

L=XL/(f*2*PI)
C=(f*2*Pi)/Xc
Zo=sqrt(L/C)



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2018, 23:36:44 pm
i believe you want to read this paper entirely

450kv in a watercapacitor and no bubbles...
Bang....Meyers patents are blown away
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2018, 04:11:05 am
i believe you want to read this paper entirely

450kv in a watercapacitor and no bubbles...
Bang....Meyers patents are blown away

in my way of view not necessaryly but it tells us a very different story about how the water capacitor work!

i found out that when meyer mention in the patent the resonant charging choke having 100turns he was actually meaning it

i found that the calculated cell is around 100pf capacitance maybe a little lower

in my records i got some readings of cell capacitance over 2000ohms using pump and filter recirculating the water in the big cell with 11 electrodes

this mean that if i want it to get 40kv pulse into it i need to give 20amps to it somehow

the cell will be charged with the same voltage as the pulse forming network that is a coil in parallel with it

the lie in the patent is about the 36awg secondary wire because we need to get amps into it otherwise the timescale is very slowwww

in those documents it became clear to me that if we want to really make a damage to water we need to discharge it with high voltage pulse very sharp to get the ions balistical collision

so say you get 100 turns in sequence... if the wire wistand up to 1kv per turn it could reach 100kv without discharge in itself 

lets say with 100 turns is possible to reach 20kv with safe

with 250uh and a repetition rate of 10khz with 50v as charging input source

the circuit will discharge 10k 50miliJoules pulses to water and also charge water to 50v during the rest of the step for example makes

50v / 2000 Ohms =  25 ma

it would be the leakage current on water for example while the inductor will act as a short circuit and within 100us will rise the current up to 20amps

the input circuit will need to collapse to get the voltage real that high

when the switch is open the current will change direction at the secondary and the diode wont let the choke to see the transformer as a nice small impedance so it will develop real high voltage as the secondary will follow it

the main idea is to use both sides of the coin

when we apply power to a flyback transformer it will deliver the power only during the discharge cycle

in meyer charging choke he charge them during the pulse on and when the pulse interrupt the secondary and choke works side by side to discharge into water the energy

i believe is necessary in this case to use a bunch of tvs diodes in parallel and a high voltage high amperage diode together maybe up to 10 to handle 40amps and a good high voltage and amperage diode too to split the job

the tvs will only start conduct when the voltage of the secondary collapse is higher than its value in the closed circuit between the secondary and choke (in parallel with the cell (both after the diodes) )

the idea is to use the secondary energy to form the high voltage pulse...

the chokes must handle the amperage

i believe 14awg would be good start

also for the secondary

the chokes may be air core maybe a good idea to make a toroidal resin coil former without core! or with powerder iron core

ferrite core will not discharge as fast as needed for this applications

air core is the best choice toroidal even better

so for the input transformer is ok to use ferrite as it will reduce the number of required turns the input frequency ex 10khz is a good starting point as is easy to design a transformer for this operation

but is probably nicer to use maybe two transformer or complete two choke systems to have continuous pulse during pulse off

multiphasing like biphasic for example

triphase is possible too and multiple phase

so lets say we pulse it with 12v and have a step up of 4 it gives 48v 20amps so20  times 4 is 80 amps so the primaries will be seeing 80 amps during the charge time as the charge cycle is linear increasing and only half cycle the average will be less than 40 however the peak is 80 just before turning it off .. this makes clear that making the primary part of the pulsing circuit as well is a hell of a good idea if used wisely

its certainly better than waste it on the primary side

is possible to wire the primary in series with the secondary in boost mode

this reduce the need of the secondary to make the all conduction of the amps thru the core who knows

of course is possible to use regenerative feedback and may be used for help protecting the switch but ideally the power we want in the water not burning components or heating them elsewhere in the circuit

im sure that those patents have lots of inconsistencies on purpose as many as possible  i read too many and after all he was patenting something he already new was already patented and he only improoved it but could not patent the numbers again so he mention all the patents he improved

i would like to be in more confort situation to make this tests but i´m with no money at all and currently without water pump on my filter

i´m working hard to get finances better so i can have some peace to work on it







 


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2018, 20:16:56 pm
at the drawing 6b of this patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US5149407A/en (https://patents.google.com/patent/US5149407A/en)

there is no diode so the transformer apear to be in parallel with the cell
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2018, 20:56:49 pm
Hello Fabio.

Let me express my opinion about all of that:

We have to stick to the things that are for real, look to the pictures of the estate.
The diode is right there.

Do you have MULTISIM on your  computer?

I will like to challenge you and everyone here who wants to, to show a simulation of the VIC  achieving high KV on both coils but without the cell being the capacitor and only the 78.54 ohms...

Rules that you must do on that:

- 1:5 transformer with input up to 12v
- 2 coils
- 1 diode

I experienced a "special" condition where there is a resonnant rising on both coils up to some KV.
I was able to find and predict this situation.

If people are expecting to get high voltages on the cell without extreme current flow they dont know for real what ohms law is.

In my opinion and after all the experiments I have done, the will be a +B and -B voltages who may do the work. I was not able to get it up from 1KV without the coils started to burn.
High voltages will be present on both coil terminals.

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2018, 21:12:26 pm
(https://s19.postimg.cc/tkqdvscs3/vic_voltage.png)

If you got this working on multisim and understand what is happening here you could be at something new that could be (or not) part of the answer.
I dont know if it is possible to achieve that voltages on real life but it was taken from a similar experiment i had done some months ago.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2018, 21:18:46 pm
This gave me more air to breathe.

Now I am  buying new equipment for my lab, I bought a new digital oscilloscope at a good price with a built in function generator, and next step is to get a non evasive current probe, high voltage probe and I am building an isolation device for the scope inputs.

Then I will test it again.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 17, 2018, 13:09:24 pm
yes man i worked hard at it on the computer simulating but as you already said to get 1kv into water you need to provide the amps according with the resistance it have

i constructed a cell with a filter and pump that keep filtering the water the water get up to and beyond 2kohm resistance

is indeed possible to get high voltage across the coils if the load is low but this high voltage is not on water but only at the coil ...

now we know  a coil will fight any change in current so if its charged to 20amps it does not mather how small or big it is it will give 40kv pulse to the 2kohm load

i worked a lot with that testing and saw any effect i could measure on water

so i went to the meaning of the words and there is it

resonant charging choke

now if you know the science and filter the parts meyer used to complicate the things and study a little all the patents he mention you see a connection point

two patents he mention is the tay he han and the other is the horvaths

so what

horvath clearly stated that his process used a depolarization púlse

tay he han used high voltage but never show any of the ckt

meyer says that the electrons will momentarily get distorted and weakening the water bound

Title: EEC
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2018, 17:13:54 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_magnetic_moment (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electron_magnetic_moment)

electrons are atracted to magnetic fields!!!!

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2018, 23:15:37 pm
...and about electric fields?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 19, 2018, 00:20:44 am
electric fields can push or pull depending on the polarity.. however a magnetic field would only attract because the electron can easyly flip just like a small piece of magnet being approach by another ... it will be attracted to the strongest field source near..

the beaulty is that the magnet will not cousume power to accelerate the electron

this can be measured by using a magnet on a spark gap if dc on the positive side will increase the heat reduce the resistance and on the negative side should reduce the heat  also should increase the voltage of the gap

my idea would be to cause a situation where the magnetic field can assist the EEC by directly attracting the electrons to elsewhere in the circuit...

i imagined something like a hot plate under vaccum burning electrons off on the positive side of the cell and a magnetic circuit that give energy to them to make out their way thru another circuit than the input source



The eec acording to the patent will generate atomic decay when the oxygen missing electrons steal the electron from hydrogen prior to and during combustion ignition

to achieve this level of ionization is necessary to get multiple stages of ionization using wave energy and electric fields

i believe the best manner to test it is with a torch and and system to measure temperature rise of a water cup with the torch

what are the products of an atomic decay besides pure energy? meyer talk about energy entering our dimension thru this universal energy hole




Title: paper
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 19, 2018, 17:26:38 pm
in the last document i posted there is a great analysis of exited oxygen combustion...

it seem to me like a study on meyer process done by high researchers finance by gov

to see it only if you logged in ..guests cannot download or view it..

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2018, 06:29:38 am
when i see no one questioning or writing it appear to me that everyone is running their cars on water except me...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2018, 13:57:53 pm
when i see no one questioning or writing it appear to me that everyone is running their cars on water except me...

Yes we do....Why dont you?

I think my friend, that what you post is a lot of theory for the most of the members.
Is it possible to create a project that shows some direction on how to drive at the end on water?

That Meyer knew a lot is clear. He got all those patents to cover all fields of possible technology.

I ran my motor on Hho and with help of an ambient air ionizer it ran even better.
For me thats as close as i could get to ionizing oxygen.....
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2018, 19:50:45 pm
i would really love to have my water car ready! =D

i´m trying to come up with some background because after years working non stop at it i realized that i left many things pass because i was too much (even if less than many) influenced by meyers words.. although i always questioned what he shown only now i have some more experience to tell what i believe is doable or not

the ideal circuit would be to get the pll with stepup transformer and feed water and a coil in parallel to see the if the game is starting

for the ionizing part i would make some series cells than apply a inductive discharge on each of it and also a high voltage relative to ground in order to eject electrons required to ionize ... the discharge should create an arc on the ambient air and it will liberate many electrons while high voltage will take them away

my worst problem is not having a way to test the gas burning or running an engine... dont have the engine nor the money to get it hahah

in my opinion we should prepare the engine to get the ionized gas to make as much effect as possible

like covering with insulator all the way to the piston so that the ions cant get the electrons from metal parts

thats why  i though a torch could be ideal to test this


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2018, 20:05:44 pm
Hello guys!

First we need to get the cell to work, then think about the PLL.
We dont know even what we are looking for.
What do you want to lock onto, Fabio?

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2018, 23:20:03 pm
The pll i use as a frequency generator. if we mean to lock into something its there...

the basics of the theory i´m developing here is simple the water molecules will be align when we apply the dc to it however is impossible to apply thousands of volts to the water for long time or it will have a gigantic current

i realized that meyer was using amps to drive the cell to high voltage using just coils for it instead of capacitors

the water cell is a capacitor itself so to get charged by an inductor discharge it will happen with the resonance time if the resistance of the capacitor is high enough to not reduce the time of the discharge

when a inductor collapse it will try to maintain the current that it was charged and for that it will develop the voltage it needs

i have cristal clear that this is what meyer and horvath was doing...

tay he han was doing something similar but using capacitors to punch the water!

 capacitors have the bad reputation of being expensive

however in the fracture cell by eccles they propose that their system is cheaper than meyer because use only plastics to build the capacitor (it still need the high voltage transformers though)

now comes some background theory

a capacitor has positive and negative charges so the fields sum inside and cancel outside the capacitor

if we could apply positive on both plates it would reppel each other meaning the field inside is zero while on the outside they point in oposite directions

in the water molecule capacitance it work in the same way

when we align they and subject to a depolarizing pulse we can indeed reduce the electric field that holds the molecule together making it stretch in

if we apply a field to stretch out directly the molecule it would need to be stronger than the field that holds the molecule together

my approach is to instead cancel part of the covalent force allowing it to oscillate and hopefully break the bond basically pull one atom against the other instead of trying to split them as this is impossible give the extremely high electric field

i took some time to see this possibility of using the coil in parallel with the cell to achieve this kind of pulse

the main problem with the coils in series is that it wont have a direct path to discharge in water so it will never see enough voltage unless the coils are discharged in parallel but this can only be done adding another diode in the process and it makes the original diode suffer...

when i was back to brasil i did some experiments on that using some speaker wire a iron core and some diodes ... when i had a diode in parallel with secondary the pulse doubles and it can be seen in water another pulse during pulse off but as i was using different circuit than meyer no one gave attention to it not even me.. .









Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2018, 00:30:43 am
i think i would need some lab equipment to get on it better

i wish i had a hydrogen flow meter and one for air

i have a air flow regulator that may be useful for working with compressed air but i only have a co2 cylinder

wish i had a air compressor and a compressed air cylinder to work with

i wish i had a torch to use with hydrogen to start testing the eec

for the parts of the ckt i have most of but would love to have some high amps high voltage and ultra speed diodes

here in brazil everything is too expensive or simply dont exist and i also does not have money kkkk sad story

haha but is ok nothing can stop me anyway





Title: the ecc
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2018, 00:50:57 am
to get a better picture of the amount of gas being generated if we were using common electrolysis to just get the gas it would be possible to convert the coulombs using a microcontroler and an amp metter

this would be a first step knowing exactly how much gas we have!

than work with the ambient air with ionization and wave energy to try to reach the atomic decay...

perhaps is better to work with pure hydrogen to be able to play around with it safely without explosion during manipulation with high voltage pulses

meyer mean atomized hydrogen

this can be done by ionizing it negatively and bombarding it into a positive target

meyer talk about the muon decay process in the newzealand and also cited in this patent the same... and according to him when the oxygen missing electron steal the hydrogen electron  and it fail to form the water molecule, the hydrogen will toss out an electron and other particles and a lot of heat (thermal explosive energy)  (the universal energy pathway) to complete the reaction... i´m not sure if meyer mean the hydrogen will totally decay which could be one possibility however in this manner this water molecule will not exist anymore...

Title: thane heins transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2018, 03:00:24 am
i have worked a little into the bitoroid idea some while ago and from what i remember it gave pretty interesting spikes at turn on and off of the switch

it consisted of a couple of cores that had one closed loop coil connecting them magnetically (exteme thick wire one turn coupling the two transformers)  so very high current is always available there it works like a shorted transformer
and also another coil that worked as a feedback coil such that the output coil on the second transformer was connected to the coil in the first transformer forming a positive feedback,,,

i was thinking about another way to get this high voltage powefull spikes without disturbing the switch and remember that... i remember i could ligh a 60w incandecent light with it but at the time i wasnt looking at how much it cost in energy as i didnt had metters for it

when we short a transformer we get a situation where maximum current will be there flowing

the idea was that if the secondary transformer feedback energy to the input transformer by different turn ratio

 


Title: Crazy plan
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2018, 09:12:53 am
i  have a crazy plan

i was thinking about how i´m going to play this game and i decided to go with all i can

to start with my power supply will be straight from the grid because i want some serious amps to drive the thing

my target is to get 500 watts nanopulses into one tube cell

for that my first plan  is to use a full wave bridge from a step down transformer for high current output i have here so i not run out of amps with a variac

i had it made for me few years ago its a 800W toroidal transformer with a multitap secondary being each of the taps with a thickness that support the maximum current for watts

for example if input is 240v the first tap is 24 v 35 amps and so on i´m not sure if it is 120 or 240 have to check it...

it is connected to a variac so i guess is 240v..

second my circuit protection will have protection for up to 1000volts given i´m using a 1200v transistor

this protection is based on the planned current so if i plan to have 20amps i must have maybe 10 tvs 1000v protection in parallel or more to handle such current

the primary will be in series with the secondary during the discharge to let the primary energy to be dissipated where its required however leaving the switch and tvs safe during well design operation

varistors are not good because they have a capacitance !

TVS have a Resistance like effect above its threshold voltage if it can hold from 1 amp to 5 amps to 400v range for example each diode..

this allow for a multiplication factor when the switch is open

thats what im interested collapsing the fields

the input circuit will be basically this the full wave bridge a fuse the protection and the transistor

the input coil is going to be a pulse transformer made with air core  1:3

the secondary will be connected in series with the primary and this mainly have two effects

the first effect is that the dc is switched thru it so a part of the amps are forced thru it during pulse on and this cancel part of the energy accumulated on it..

the second effect is that when the switch open the primary energy is dissipated on the load not on protection devices

in series with the secondary will be a diode and after it a coil made of 18awg 100 turns over a 1inch pvc tube with small spacers to reduce the capacitance (the spacers to be taken out after the coil is ready)

18awg is 1mm so the coil will have something like 20cm if the spacer is 1mm wide.. this will allow for connect at different points more easily on the coil without shorting ..

the amount of power that goes to the cell will depend on 3 factors mainly however the cell resistance is also a factor

input voltage  / control amps in for a given freq and choke

input frequency or repetition rate  / control amps in for a given volts and choke

charging choke size  / control amps in for a given freq and volt

cell (resistance if is low or capacitance depending on the resistance value) plus  choke value determine the discharge time

the lower the discharge time the greater is the peak power
Title: believe i´m on something
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2018, 12:57:25 pm
its related to the ionization and ability to generate ionized gas


i realized that there is two ways of getting high voltage one is to have a big transformation ratio the other is to have a collapsing field

i found also that we can connect the secondary in series with the primary in two ways when we are pulsing on and off the circuit / one on the dc side the other is the switch side... assuming only series adding connection is desired
one way will send a boost positive to the ckt during pulse on and the other will send a negative boost

also there is two way of pulsing it one is in this boost mode and the other is flyback mode..

i found that the vic is another transformer on its own and it can be a single coil too  split in two or 3 parts all in one direction only

I´m going to use at the end 4 transformers

T1 is the variac

T2 is a stepdown (high amps requirement)

T3 is the pulse transformer

T4 is the Charging choke transformer 

(vic is the combination of T3 and T4)

i explain you why

The way this system generate powerful pulses is to get the switch open interrupting the current at the coils this create a power compression or condense the power accumulated during pulse on to be discharged in a fraction of a pulse time

the total voltage achieved will be equal to:  the voltage input * collapse transformation factor * (transfomation factor + 1 because primary is in series) * transformation factor of the chokes transformer 

the collapse factor depends on the protection tvs used in parallel with the primary of the pulse transformer = (limit of the collapse / input voltage)

the chokes "primary" during collapse will have the same voltage as the pulse transformer primary collapse + secondary voltage collapse + TVS (in series ) DIODE voltage
 
the choke "secondary" will again increase this discharge voltage ...

now

if the boost negative mode is used on the pulse transformer what becomes clear is that during the collapse not only the chokes will discharge a high power amps into the cell but the voltages of the primary secondary and chokes secondary will be in series adding.. generating a very high voltage pulse at the same time where the chokes are giving a high voltage amp reverse spike pulse on it.. this hv positive will clearly take any of the free electrons out of the water leaving it positively charged..

using a isolated ground is possible to drive those electrons to a place where they will not be able to return using a simple diode with the anode connected to earth ground

my only fear is that the cell charge can force a high amps discharge on the transistor at next pulse on burning it...


the ratio of the choke primary to secondary relates to the water contaminant so it allow for balance for how much voltage goes to the water to polarize during pulse on and how much will be at the discharge...

i think stepup is for low contaminants as it will have very small current during pulse on

my best guess is that it will explode



Title: Basic Request
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2018, 13:16:48 pm
basic components

1kw variac (i have a only a  500w one )

1kw stepdown transformer (i have a 800w one that i can use)

1200v 30amps transistor (need to buy costs a lot)

many Tvs of different voltages (have some , need more)

 50amp full wave bridge rectifier (have)

30 amp ultra fast diode  (need to buy)

pulse transformer 1:3 (need buy some wire)

primary 14Awg 100t

secondary 18 Awg 300t

charging choke 200turns 1 inch diameter 18awg with taps

isolated cell (already have)

high voltage isolation diode (have a couple )

water filter (missing pump)
 
I´m totally out of money so any help you could give me my friends would really help us completing this tests.. i will provide a paypal link here bellow for you can donate to help

i also accept  donation of components if you already have them and want to send it to me!

i believe that with maybe 500 dollars i could get most of this things i miss and make a lot of progress!

Remembering you that i already spend hundreds of thousands in my education, equipment,  and testing in the last 13 years!

Please Donate Here:

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=sebosfato%40gmail.com&lc=BR&item_name=Sebosfato+Probe+Crowdfunding&item_number=1&no_note=0&currency_code=BRL&bn=PP-DonationsBF%3Abtn_donateCC_LG.gif%3ANonHostedGuest (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=sebosfato%40gmail.com&lc=BR&item_name=Sebosfato+Probe+Crowdfunding&item_number=1&no_note=0&currency_code=BRL&bn=PP-DonationsBF%3Abtn_donateCC_LG.gif%3ANonHostedGuest)

as a counterpart i can make some videos with the progress of the tests and explaining better what we are doing here..


thanks

 



Title: great news
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2018, 18:52:15 pm
I took a good look at my parts

i found that i still have some igbts spare of very high power although they are a little slow ... 1200 v 90 amps @25C  G7PH50K10D
turn on delay 100ns
rise 70ns
turn of delay 370ns
fall time 100ns


the following one i found to sell on aliexpress FGL40N120AND is a much faster device
with fall time 60ns
and turn off delay 100ns
turn on delay 15ns
rise 25ns

is important to not parallel this devices in this kind of operation otherwise the amps can endup all into the one who turn off last... burning it

diodes can be parallel but they should share the same heat dissipator to have simillar foward voltage sharing the amps better
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2018, 19:53:29 pm
the tvs i found too luckly i had 200  pieces saved for this time!

i have the 1,5ke400c that has the following characteristics ... @4amps its is maximum allowed power dissipation and is going to have 574 volts across it

therefore is easy to understand that all you get to do is to get series and parallel  to your wish to get desired output

if you let 1 amp per diode is ok to not over heat it so if you plan pulsing 30 amps in the primary as a peak you need 30 diodes in parallel for 400v and 60 diodes if arrange in two series so it would go up to 900volts or 1000 easily

1 diode per amp is over kill.. we could probably use only 15 in parallel and  will be ok the important is to use a fuse or circuit breaker in the case of current get over some limit because if the transistor burn imediately the stepdown transformer will fry!!!! i´m thinking about using car fuses,,, not sure if its not too slow..

my input voltage will be from 0 to 30v so it will be able to protect the transistor if the voltage dont overcome 1150 v or so

this tvs allow for collapsing voltage very fast as they will maintain the loads voltage to a certain level whatever is the current so its impedance constantly change to keep the voltage high reseting the core very fast

there are more powerful tvs but i never found here in brazil to buy

in parallel with the tvs i add resistors to help on the protection too!

the resistance depend on the load impedance and they dissipate quite a lot of power

for example if the primary is consuming 30 amps for 30volts the impedance is 1 ohm the resistor should be set to not exceed the voltage of the transistor so in the case 33ohms times 30amps is 990v so if you add a higher value resistor it may not be helping that much however the tvs will save the day 

notice that this ratio is the ratio of the collapse voltage because is the voltage that will be impressed on the primary and proportionally at the secondary because the current in the primary is being stopped

during this pulse off cycle the power of the pulse transformer will be directed to extract electrons from water manly because it will force the cell cathode to a high positive voltage while the anode receive a negative high voltage spike provoked by the charging chokes (flyback action)

 


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2018, 03:02:28 am
i already started nothing will stop me now until i get it working or homeless

i started stacking the tvs to get a good heat sharing among them

i´m doing stacks of 10 in parallel that should handle nicely up to 30 amps 450v  since each of the diodes handle max 1,5kw

next step is to cut a piece of aluminum to make the base of the drive circuit, power supply, pulse transformer and choke..

i´m trying to find a opto isolated igbt driver to get the circuit isolated as maximum as possible to be able to perform ionization easier

between the circuit ground and earth ground go  a capacitor and hv diode in parallel allowing electrons to be discharged to ground when the capacitor is not positively charged...


Title: guests dont see the attachments
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2018, 15:59:25 pm
i already started nothing will stop me now until i get it working or homeless

i started stacking the tvs to get a good heat sharing among them

i´m doing stacks of 10 in parallel that should handle nicely up to 30 amps 450v  since each of the diodes handle max 1,5kw

next step is to cut a piece of aluminum to make the base of the drive circuit, power supply, pulse transformer and choke..

i´m trying to find a opto isolated igbt driver to get the circuit isolated as maximum as possible to be able to perform ionization easier

between the circuit ground and earth ground go  a capacitor and hv diode in parallel allowing electrons to be discharged to ground when the capacitor is not positively charged...


for the primary side i used 40 diodes in two series of 20 in parallel
i used a copper foil to couple them electrically and thermally on both sides and took advantage that they were on their original package to solder the foil with easy
if they have a different temperature they wont share the power dissipation evenly so one ends up burning
this should handle up to 40 amps at 1000v PIV easily
for the foward current this diodes handle up to 200 amps single pulse 1ms

i found a nice optoisolated driver available to buy called fod3184... there are others better but here this is the best i found

WITHOUT THE OPTOISOLATION THE CIRCUIT WILL BECOME ELECTRIFIED

i noticed that the optoisolation is required for one reason! to decouple the electronic circuit components from the pulsing side... the optoisolation must be able to handle maybe up to 2kv depending on the isolation capacitor used between ckt ground and earth ground

this capacitor will store positive charges left on the cell during next pulse on, after electrons extraction to help ionization by providing the positive charges back when the pulse turn off 
Title: missing components
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2018, 20:34:19 pm
hello

today i got the fod3184 to drive my igbts optoisolated to allow the positive charge left on the cell to return to the isolated ground capacitance... this capacitance is in parallel with a diode that allow the electrons to be discharged to ground earth but when positive charges come it will get charged using electrons from ground to counterbalance the positive charges left on the cell.. . the potential rise will only depend on the capacitance.. so is good idea to start with a considerable value to accomodate the charge without rising the voltage in a manner that will kill the optoisolation..

i would keep within 2kv 100nf limit to start testing and i´m thinking of adding a tvs in parallel to limit it to this voltage
 
is important to have the current wave form on the oscilloscope to get track of the amps peak...
also is good to have a voltage reading of the igbt voltage to be safe about whats going on
every component burn is a big step backwards specially having no money to get more... i guess this components are here since about 2 years now it was a time that i had some money spare and decided to get components for the future testing... if i didnt had this components here i would probably get a long time until testing...

now i need to buy some 14 AWG wire and some 18AWG for the coils and pulse transformer

as i´m planing to have 10amps discharge to start with my primary will need to handle 30 amps as the pulse transformer is 1:3 but the switch will be seeing 40 amps or little more as the secondary is in series with the primary

the charging choke work as a load during pulse on! helping concentrating the power for later use during the collapse

the lower is the voltage applied the lower can be the inductance of the charging choke for the same amps so the greater is the speed of the discharge

so decreasing the coil size or frequency increase power out

 increasing voltage and or amps  increase power output

but increasing the coil increase the time of discharge and reduce power


Today i also buy a diaphragm pump to use with my filter it claims to be 100psi 6.8 bar 3amps 12v i hope it works ok because i got the cheapest one i pay like 20$ on it

so i would really like if you by any chance want to collaborate with me because i´m buying all this stuff with credit card but i´m not at a good situation to spend on this components.... of course i´m trying to use all i have to avoid having to buy more stuff

hopefully i live in a big house and i accumulated all the prototypes and spare parts i bought long this 13years researching

so to donate please follow this link

https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=sebosfato%40gmail.com&lc=BR&item_name=Sebosfato+Probe+Crowdfunding&item_number=1&no_note=0&currency_code=BRL&bn=PP-DonationsBF%3Abtn_donateCC_LG.gif%3ANonHostedGuest (https://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_donations&business=sebosfato%40gmail.com&lc=BR&item_name=Sebosfato+Probe+Crowdfunding&item_number=1&no_note=0&currency_code=BRL&bn=PP-DonationsBF%3Abtn_donateCC_LG.gif%3ANonHostedGuest)

as a counterpart i can make some videos with the progress of the tests and explaining better what we are doing here..


thanks so much for your effort in changing the word!

If you enjoy this website you can also contribute with it and other members that are working hard at this technology all of them so far as i know by their own cost and time! Be aware of that! Even if you just read and not a scientist or not able to do experiments you can help who can and follow the progress and be part of something great!

In attachment i added a excel sheet showing my calculations

i will explain here

the idea is to use inductive discharge

when we charge an inductor we charge it with current

1 Henrie is equal to L = 1 Volt * 1 Second / 1 Amp

this mean that if you have 1 henrie inductor and you apply 1 volt for 1 second you will have 1 amp on it ... the current increase linearly if dc is applied

so you have also 0.5 Joule because energy E  = 1 Amp ^ 2 * 1 Henrie / 2
 
so my calculation assume 50% pulse width and i manipulate the frequency and voltage and current desired to get the inductor value i need to match that condition

i made it this way because it change the parameters dynamically allowing me to discover the behavior of parameters

when this energy is discharged it is discharged into the cell in 100 nanoseconds scale and will depend on the cell capacitance and choke inductance

so from the energy i got the maximum voltage for resonant discharge

and also calculated the voltage and time for discharge considering water just a resistance

this is simply taking the amps and multiply by the resistance V=I*R and the current on the inductor must get thru the resistance

this allow to see if your really charging the capacitance or just forcing the resistive side!





 
Title: Using Full Power
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 26, 2018, 13:19:34 pm
I was thinking about the usage of the coil in parallel with the circuit and after making some more drawings i discovered something increadible

i found that is possible to use the power of the pulse transformer not only to collapse the field and perhaps cause ionization (that would be too low of a load) but it can also be part of the high energy discharge circuit and guess what

i was thinking about the wiring the primary in series with the system but it takes its isolation out complicating more although doable.. the reason i wanted to do that was because i was not thinking that another coil could be added in series with the discharge circuit to get the power out of the core during the collapse so saving the protection tvs from dealing with all the power that didnt make thru the other side

i have now exactly meyer drawing except by adding one coil in parallel after the diode being this coil be coupled with the lower choke while the upper choke is in the same core of the pulse transformer

this way the cicuit must work because all the hell of power it can absorb it can discharge in the water and thats the idea

i found also something else

leaving the pulse transformer an isolation transformer (not connecting the primary) turns unnecessary the optoisolation and the isolated ground and its complexity ... since the circuit of water is floating... however is required a manner to ionize the gas coming out and it may be achieved with the primary but connecting in an isolated manner thru a diode... the only thing that can pass here is electrons going to earth (if earth is connected on the negative side of the power supply but)

if that is connected at the positive side of the battery or power supply, the electrons are forced to go there recharging the battery or powersupply with water electrons

another isolated coil can be added on T1 for this work connected from circuit ground to the cell tube electrode where the electrons are going to be theoretically bombarded to create a potential during pulse collapse to extract those electrons ...

or it could be an external circuit etc..


something else that i was elaborating is a transmission line snuber to add in parallel with the tvs on the primary side... but i´m still wondering how to use it..

another way to do it is to add a small transformer in parallel with the tvs but it must be designed to have a secondary with the turns factor to allow the pulse to return to the source in the form of a high current pulse when the tvs see 800v for example ... however is important that the primary in this case (of this small transformer ) have a decent inductance to not saturate and not create a much lower resistance than the tvs or pulse will not collapse well...

meyer said Keep it simple stupid so probably is better to use the tvs only and maybe a resistor and varistor only!
Title: matching impedance making sense
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 26, 2018, 18:31:05 pm
Matching impedance was told to us to be the key...

well theoretically it is indeed the way to discharge the energy completely without reflection and at one cycle but there are a bunch of impedance matching  for different things

for example matching the transmission line impedance will cancel reflections

matching the impedance of a resonance tank with a resistor will bring the Q factor to 1

so what is about this matching

Lets put it simple

when we get coils carrying current they must be connected to coils with the same current going otherwise it will not discharge at the same time and the coil with higher current will send another pulse into the other coils

i will give you an example of a 1:3 pulse transformer

the primary have 30 amps the secondary 10 amps if we connect them in series to discharge the primary will discharge forcing 30 amps into the other coil where there was only 10

the idea is to maximize the discharge of both cores simultaneously to get all energy at once!

to do that is important to match the coils

to do that is not complicated basically the coils must be similar in size and shape and have the same current on

for example primary L1 =1 secondary L2 before diode and L3 in series after diode dots summing = 3   

and charging chokes the other coils C4 (in parallel after the diode) and C5 (between C4 negative side and cell ) also are similarly  dot summing

so during discharge they will experience the same current and the discharge will be as fast as possible and complete..

now if the discharge matches the water resistance than the impedance is matched with water also and there wont be reflections!

for that is important to determine the impedance of the discharge of the coil...   but i do not think it is necessary!
Title: Design
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 26, 2018, 19:06:47 pm
the coils design i will do here to keep records

i will be using a couple of cores with the same characteristics

starting with the primary

first lets find a core that can handle a good amount of energy for the discharge

we know that is better to use lower voltage and higher amps to get better speed response by needing a lower inductor for it

number of turns = Applied volts / Bmax / Core Crossection Area / Frequency / factor of 2 (because is only dc pulse)

So if i plan to apply 30v the bmax is 0.3 the are is 1inch ^2 and frequency of 5khz
remember 1 inch is 0.0254 meters
the turns ends up = 15 turns and is pretty reasonable since this one  is a big CC core i have from thornton.com.br is th NC100 lets say we are going to add a small gap and consider the bmax to work on a lower level of flux we can get up to twice the turns with no problem.. so lets say 30 turns for the primary keeping 1 volt per turn during pulse on

30 turns means 3 meters of wire and it must have a low resistance to not provoke a voltage drop on the primary that is greater than 2% so it must have a resistance of 20miliOhm lets see what wire is good for this

so if i want 30 amps on the primary it must have a low resistance for ... i think that adding 4 x 18awg wires in parallel is a good idea or you can use a 12AWG ... using wires in parallel is not a bad idea as it raises the frequency you can work for 18awg is 17khz and 12awg is only 4khz


the secondary will have 90 turns so 9 meters of 18Awg wire is around 200mohm and at 10 amps flow give a dissipation of 19w
 


the bad thing about using a too big core for it is that it can cause problems with to much energy accumulated but i guess its easier to achieve the effect with a powerful pulse!

i still have those small cores that Steve kindly send to me some years ago that is going to be used for a smaller version too for sure....

Title: sorry if you think this is another replication
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 27, 2018, 00:35:18 am
well this is design from zero

i´m sorry for those who dont believe we are capable to get there with our own legs and ideas

today i´m reviving labview as it is a great way to monitor some of the circuit parameters like the temperature of the circuit... how many watts going in ,,, the voltage ,,, the impedance...

i was also thinking on developing a simple peak metter for amps to detect the amps in primary

i will be posting the code for it here in attachment... soon,,

please donate would be very nice to receive your donation

i need to get some wire for this transformers as i dont have much here...

something like 50$ donation would be very helpful.

thanks 


i´m using for the current meter acs712 and an arduino nano because it has more analog inputs than the esp but i will add an esp32 to it so i can transmit the data via wifi so i can get the readings...and to store the webserver that will show the readings... the problem is that the sensor is analogic and is 5v so as arduino but the esp is 3v so i must send the data digitally from the arduino to thru a level converter to the esp so i can get the data transmited wifi.. 
this is a 30A hall sensor module that only need to be connected in series with the power supply... i can also be connected to the oscilloscope too...

this arduino will measure the volts applied the amps in to start with.. it will than calculate the watts... also indicate the frequency and temperature meter to check the temperature of igbt or coils etc i can even make it count the pulses if i want
calculate the duty cycle and other stuff

the esp also have other inputs


i will keep it simple at start to not waste time but will let the code on the html files and

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 27, 2018, 11:13:36 am
it looks like that somebody got back the holy fire  :)
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 27, 2018, 15:45:52 pm
it looks like that somebody got back the holy fire  :)

thats the way i feel Steve, its being a while since this fire was sleeping inside me =D

I have study more and more bro and i found the following situation... there is two ways of getting the pulse powerful

T1

  L1= 30t   12awg or 4 18awg in parallel
 L2=90t    18awg

L3= 90t (coil after the diode in series connecting to anode) 18awg
T2
Choke parallel = 90t (not on same core single coil)  (connected between after the diode before the L3 and to the other side of the secondary coil and cell cathode) 18awg
in this system the amps of the discharge is the same as charging...

a second circuit involves a second transformation or voltage doubling that extends the voltage and turns out clear how to proceed with the matching of the impedance to get the most energy into the cell

T1

L1=30t    12awg  or 4 x 18awg in parallel


L2=90t    18awg


L3=180t    22awg   (coil after the diode in series connecting to anode)

T2

Choke 1 parallel = 90t (connected in parallel with the secondary after the diode and before the L3)  18awg
Choke 2 Series=90t (connected between the choke parallel connection with secondary and cathode)  22awg

like if it was not clear the choke 1 one charges up with current while the other forces the applied voltage to cell up during pulse on and during pulse off they sum for discharge in series with the cell therefor there is a voltage doubling and the amps become half of it was thats why the L2 is now 180 turns! because choke 1 +2 form 180 too 

all the dots are summing always (one direction only)

a L4 can be added with maybe higher turns to get the ionization voltage (connected thru a diode having the arrow in the direction of the cell but with the dot pointing to ground) a capacitor can be added in parallel with this diode to limit dv/dt rise

what do you think about this circuit man?

did you agree on this way of using the coils?

for getting a higher voltage out it will be required for us to develop the multiple open switch with si tyristors just like the nanopulse patent...


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 27, 2018, 17:09:47 pm
i think i am not qualified enough to say if it is good or not.
I have a love hate relationship with chokes etc.
If the game is to get higher voltage then 13v into the cell, so we can ionize the hydrogen atom into an ion, ill guess many options are possible.
The eec is needed to remove the removed electrons from the waterbath.
If we use 20khz high voltage pulse from a whatever transformer, you can use chokes to soft up those pulses a bit.
Thats why they are named chokes.
I think that leaking a bit of current is not a problem as long as you reach the hydrogen atoms...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 27, 2018, 18:41:42 pm
My strategy with this ckt is to first charge the water aligning the molecules with the low voltage field ... in the case of the example 1 it was 180v dc pulse using a 30v input because it works as a step up of 6 since it has two coils on the T1
On the second example the double choke also double the input voltage to the chokes and reduce the amps by half and to match the impedance the discharge of the T1 being L3 coil must be double too thereto the sum of the voltages to charge the water cell become 360v

.. a resistive choke can be added in series to reduce this charging current of the cell but this should have a diode in parallel to allow the high current discharge when it comes...

check the circuit diagrams i think you will have a clear understand of what i mean, notice the amperage i specified at each section of the circuit:



Title: reset pulse transformer check this document!!!!
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 27, 2018, 23:23:22 pm
 :)
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 28, 2018, 15:35:45 pm
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,3067.new.html#new (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,3067.new.html#new)

i have developed in the past a circuit to collapse voltages with normal high voltage tyristors

this reduce the requirement of the igbt voltage because the thyristor absorbs all the power theoretically and this makes things much easier as it can simply be put on a heat sync
 
of course in parallel with the thyristors i will still use the tvs but they can be set at a much higher voltage and the pulse is shorter so needs less dissipation over them ...

the higher is the thyristor voltage the better

i believe if we could use a 5 to 8kv thyristor is already good enough ..

could any of you buy one or more and send to me?

using it would become possible to switch lower voltages to the cell with higher amps by not needing to step up the voltage




Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 28, 2018, 23:19:41 pm
I tried today to buy some wire I got 1.5kg of 18 awg and 500g of the 22awg wire ... The 12 awg they didnt have so I will use 18awg and split the primary between the coils to maximize coupling

I found a very good quality core that was off price so cheap and so I could get 4 pairs and they have a pretty nice coil former from fhe same manifactor so its perfect
     …
their model is NEE 65/33/26-7200 material IP12 i decided to get this because the EE core seems to provide a better coupling and it was an intermediari size from the other cores i already have here... is good to know everything about the core so it can be better used for design and compare with cores we dont know...

basically i got some insulation tape too and all together it went to 300 reais.. something like 75 dollars but i will pay in two months because i used the credit card..

i´m revolutionizing my space reorganizing all it was a very big mess... i´m trying to find a scr i´m sure i already have since a while... it was 1.2kv 40 amps i think is just good enough to give a try

the thing about the scrs is so important in this technology is because they are current triggered and not voltage triggered therefore they wont burn on a voltage spike easily...

Title: I´m working at organizing my lab
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 29, 2018, 19:40:07 pm
I found the scrs i was searching here,,, it is the 40tps12a  this is 1200v 40 amps and i will use to get the max out of the coils ..... the peak repetitive voltage is 1300 v so i will use 3 tvs in parallel with the scr to get 1200v

i´m just not sure if its going to be fast enough but from what i read in the datasheet at least 1us pulse is possible,,,

Title: Today my birthday and the birthday of new world
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 01, 2018, 17:03:06 pm
I´m starting the coils today

i decided that the coils will be under oil to get rid of air... and make it harder to burn the coils

going to set my winding machine up and start doing the coils... the number of turns is going to be somewhat smaller because i´m with an idea of using a bias current to saturate the core in the opposite direction and thereto this dc will also get to the cell somehow i didnt decided yet how... or i can only apply in a small section of the coil 

probably another small transformer to get this few amps to a coil going thru a choke just like they show on the document in attachment few posts earlier

Using better thr flux swing of the core with both sides allow faster discharge  and reset of the core!!! Basically less turns are required since you can use the 4 factor instead of 2 in the calculation... 

magnets can also be used for it but they need to have a spacer to have a regulation of the magnetic field ... i did experiments in the past is in my youtube channel where is show that using a magnet on a toroid interfered in the output and input levels

it was a long time ago now and at that time i didnt have the knowledge i have today..

i´m not sure if the permanent magnets are going to lose their magnetism but will work likely for a long time







Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 02, 2018, 08:21:44 am
happy birthday, Fabio!!!!
May it bring the results you are hoping for!

your friend
Steve
Title: Coils organization
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 02, 2018, 12:32:07 pm
Hello Steve thanks a lot my friend !

i worked a little yesterday and today going to try complete the coils...

it seems to me that the best way to go is to get first L3 closer to the core because it need to capture the core energy better
 
over it should go the primary and over the primary L2 since it will have a high current flowing for some time it better have a decent current dissipation...

as we are pulsing the L3 wont see a 5 amps for long time so it wont dissipate much however if the resistance is to big it will have a voltage drop inside the coil! for example 5 amps if it had 100 ohms resistance it would lose 500v out of 5kv  ... also it must not fuse! so maybe a too thin wire could become a problem.. we want the power to go to the water not heating up coils

the primary will have a peak of 30 amps but its not 30 amps dc is a saw and there is the off time too so average should be only 8 amps

the secondary should give 10 amps to the chokes too so its going to have a dissipation similar to the primary the 10 peak amps should apear as 2,5 average



Title: The T1 Design
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 03, 2018, 00:43:37 am
here is the design of T1 in attachment

i made the drawing in photoshop so is possible to manipulate it to explore how its wired and arranged

Please everyone consider donating ... the lack of money is not helping at all... if everyone reading here donate just like 10 dollars would be a great help and would help cover the money i´m expending on credit but not have! 

Title: small mistake
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 03, 2018, 02:05:24 am
I made a mistake assuming the energy at the core one will be the same as the energy at core two... since the core two is working more as a charging choke than transformer and the T1 is working as a transfomer

actually the energy of T1 is going to be much smaller than T2 because the secondary will have a current during charging that opposes the energy into the primary... the canceling is not complete however because coupling is not perfect

so the energy accumulated is dependent on the coupling between primary and secondary...

the lower the coupling the higher will be the amps in primary that wont couple to the secondary during charging so L3 can capture and use on the discharge

i´m trying to figure how to balance the two systems into one discharge without get unbalance...

this should change my plans to make t1 1:3:6 and t2 1:1

the main idea is to combine all the power in a single spike

T2 will have a gap and maybe t1 as well to allow some energy to be accumulated

for adjusting the gap im going to use pieces of iron lamination on the lateral legs of the EE core leaving the gap only on the center leg!

Title: Auto Reset pulse doubling
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 03, 2018, 02:25:45 am
There is also another important impact of having the energy being accumulated at T2 forces the T1 to reset instantly specially if the energy in the t2 is greater than t1 or its not well balanced..  T1 will accumulate some of the energy of the T2 discharge back that will have a pulse doubling effect just after T2 energy is gone T1 L3 and L2 will send a sharp positive pulse again! and is probably the right time to re-apply the pulsing !!!!! This could allow the use of a very high duty cycle like 95% or higher  however the t2 core can also saturate... thinking about this i was lead to believe that the gating may be important because of this too. after all the unipolar mistery is coming out

the dc source diodes must survive the back pulsing is a good idea to add a tvs across it to protect just below the diodes voltage rating.. is a good idea to add a filter capacitor small size just to keep the peak controlled if it happens...

i believe the scr can hold voltage in both senses so it can be the best way to go!@!!!@!!@!@!!!!! 

i think the coil for the ecc thereto can be at whatever core so i haven't decided yet where i´m going to put it

i´m thinking about visiting a transformers factory  to get some help .. or at the university of electrical engineering





Title: hydrogen and oxygen caused by subatomic action
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 03, 2018, 08:31:03 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weak_interaction
Title: electric wormhole
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 04, 2018, 02:36:22 am
In meyers Patents he claim to be generating hydrogen by subatomic interaction with water molecules... he claims that the bond force of the water is weakened when a resonant condition which increase the cell resistance happen

subatomic force is the weak force... the force thru witch quarks can be exchanged causing decay.. this decay is probably electrons in the case of water...

it appear to me that the patent from john quincy st clair on water spliting claim more or less the same thing.. he also say that when the water is in this wormhole generator the water bonds are weakened and the hydrogen even decay

when an atom receive a subatomic particle like neutrinos etc they interact by causing decay...

john Q have a way to do it electrically but he didnt patented that ,, he only mention in one of his patents that there is a electric wormhole generator besides the magnetic...

My best guess is that when meyer says in the videos that electromagnetic force comands all other forces he mean it... weak force is weaker than electromagnetic force.. .

maybe those mystery numbers and diagrams will come alive

he probably new that if he give a too fast pulse to water at a certain frequency this wormhole opens up weakening the water bonds and freeing up loads of electrons

this resulting gas is even magnetizable according to one of his patents of gas electrical hydrogen genertor


Title: two patents that we should look at
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 04, 2018, 18:18:51 pm
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2D0Xlhw2tRhTXZ1dElNTERqb2c

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B2D0Xlhw2tRhMHo1V3J3dHlENWs

at those patents they explain that in a plasma we get electrons with much hotter state and it create a negative potential if a electrode is inserted in the plasma...

if two different electrodes are inserted a current can flow between them in an external ckt
Title: rectenna
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 05, 2018, 07:29:22 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rectenna
Title: Meyers
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 06, 2018, 14:28:48 pm
Meyer seem to me that he copied horvath in many ways... from the fusion theory and up

what appear to me is that meyer found a way to do without the radiation tube or he hide it

or perhaps used elsewere

also the pulsing is not to be believed....  because if we compare with horvath it simply does not hold...

seeing meyers patents and papers from this perspective can be very mind opening

looks like stan did this ... if this is already patented i need to change everything to seem is not the same thing..

And probably he improved it too...

 

Title: Difference between one electrode or two in water...
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 06, 2018, 17:33:44 pm
Recently someone said that meyer had one electrode encapsulated in delrin...

i´m going to put here one thought i had about it

in few words a dielectric is a material that lacks free electrons therefore their electrons are very bounded to the molecules...

when we input a electrode in water the electrode itself will generate a potential related to the kind of material you put there.. . this potential is actually the electrons of the material that get attracted to the water and because of that a potential develop

this electrode will also start to adsorb ions in its surface... this ions are already split water molecules... but as we have only one electrode the probability is that it will have equilibrium of charge...


now if water is in  isolated bath we can bring the potential of this electrode up and down... however the effect is small or invisible ... is possible to create a population of ions according to the applied potential... however this ions will discharge to find an equilibrium that is when the potential is stable (no more charging of the capacitor side) this will make the potential of the electrode to stay the same it was but the electrode is now populated with more ions of one sign than the other sign
and thru water will be no more polarization other than the electric fields coming out of the electrode itself since the other side will have a charge equilibrium and should not have external electric field... a closed capacitor have zero eletcric field out

if we manage to increase the capacitance by using a thin dielectric and high enough voltage than we can have a situation where the electrode will interact with water molecules in one side while at the other they will have a harder time to interact since the dielectric will not have free electrons... this electrons must be the water electrons!

so i imagine the following situations

if we charge the eletrode with positive charge the other side of the cell will reflect the same polarity since some ions will discharge on the electrode leaving an overal positive charge that will be acumulated on the plastic side

we know that inside water the positve charge ions are H+ ions so we are discharging OH- in this situation thru the applied potential...

if we had another metal electrode inside the water it would be another provider for electrons

but guess what

electrodes wont be able to give positive charges off

and as i said the dielectric wont exchange electrons too

so we have a situation where we can manipulate the electrons if we manage to get them out of water somehow..

up now this is what i think what your ideas over it?



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 12:30:49 pm
maybe an insulated outside of the outside tube?
So no leaks to the extern waterbath?
All action just in between the 2 electrodes?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 15:48:55 pm
I´m still wondering and drawing a little to see with more clarity

it appear to me something like one step up transformer charge the water isolated bath to a high voltage to eject electrons out of the bath bringing it out of equilibrium and than the water just receive a kind of ac strong pulse to make the missing electron molecules colide generating ionized gas...

imagine you simply charge up to 30kv and just apply strong ac to water...

i´m trying to mix the stan claims with fracture cell claims to try to visualize it... i´m thinking something like a fracture cell having one electrode inside only and one outside on one of the sides... just to imagine how it goes..

i think is possible to do with two electrodes too but with only one seems easier to manipulate with high voltage,,,

I imagined a transformer comprising two coils besides the primary... one high voltage 1:30 to charge the cell during pulse on and other small 1:3 after the diode in the same core... but this coil is connected in parallel with the cell so it charges the cell with púlses during pulse on and at resonance it will develop a very high voltage  and when the pulse collapse the coil will create a high voltage spike across the cell using the capacitance that was charged and the energy on the core..

I believe somehow when the water bath start missing electrons or ions of one sign this charges will evenly distribute within the water and will end up on the wall of the capacitance being impeed of exchanging electrons with it so like preparing a gun to shoot....

i believe the pulse collapse may generate free electrons that will be ejected from the positive electrode filled with Oxygen ions and this electrons will collide with other atoms until it loses its energy and link up with a Hydrogen positive ion to generate an atom as explained in fracture cell...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 16:06:14 pm
Meyer used only coils according to the fracture cell ...

i believe it  could also work but the coil must have enough energy to compensate the lack of the capacitor and there will be a leakage too... however as the electrodes are on water potential level maybe the voltage to be applied to allign the molecules will be much lower than the fracture cell since the electric field goes straight to water... the problem is that the electrode will be able to give electrons to the cell from the other side so will be harder to accumulate ions without discharging them at very low efficiency due to the voltage applied

Title: The real objective of the invention
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 16:24:18 pm
It appears to me that the only object of this invention is to generate highly ionized and destabilized gas to achieve fusion during detonation to increase the energy output of the gas beyond the energy we could input in it..

how do we detect fusion?

geiger counter? maybe could be useful or a photodiodemultiplier ... it must be unsensitive to the fields present to block false results
for example we know that holding a fluorescent bulb near the cell applying high voltage makes it light wireless so maybe is not good

for achieving fusion the pressure and heat must be great and in one of horvath patents he claim he can use a hydrogen from whatever source given he irradiated first...

his xray is not a low power tube... i examined his patents lately and i found that it must be oil cool with a radiator... so is imperative to achieve fusion to get the atoms destabilized..

is useful to have a pure hydrogen source to manipulate it safely

if we get xrays in hho it can explode and in horvath patent he mention a nickel separator with 0.004 holes to be able to generate the hydrogen separeted from oxygen but he mention that a nylon screen could also be used for the same purpose..





Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 17:35:37 pm
maybe an insulated outside of the outside tube?
So no leaks to the extern waterbath?
All action just in between the 2 electrodes?

this would increase the capacitance a lot! and would be great but is a little hard if not a single cell...

in one of my last videos on youtube i use a single cell that i did this i simply constructed a single cell inside an acryilic tube and outside the acrylic i added a foil of copper...

however the thicknes of the acrylic is 3mm so the capacitance is virtually zero although it exist... to get a better situation the thickness should be something like at least 0.5mm

another strategy and i think that is the one that worked for me most to view this effect is using a larger cup with more water and thin border...

i confess i never tried to use a single electrode

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 18:38:30 pm
its good that you compare Horvath patents with Meyer patents.
Please take a look at one of the first Horvath patents where he only uses HV pulses into his electrodes.
So similar did Meyer.
Horvath took it then to a higher level with magnetic fields and soft x rays which are routed by the magnetic fields..

Soft x rays is what Anderson used as Radiolysis.
So you see now what i am saying for a long time.
There are just a very limited technics that works on watermolecules and hydrogen isotopes.
1. Pulses into water with voltages higher then 13v to extract electrons from water mols.
2. Magnetic field to accelerate hydrogen and oxygen during electrolysis.
3. adding radiolysis or soft x rays to modify the produced isotopes into more mass and more energy.

All three did the same shit.
Even the Dingle person did the Eec.....

So all 4 used the same technology.

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 20:21:25 pm
i agree with you... i also think that that guy john quincy st clair was onto something in the same way!

we need to find the books this guyd use to read about fusion etc...

The magnetic field in horvath patent so far as i understood are used to make the electrons that are ejected when the radiolysis attack to be forced into a circular pattern instead of straight path to increase the collisions each electron will make with other ions...

I saw some of horvath patents specially the canadian ones.. he indeed tells that there is one circuit where the radiolysis pulse come from the water cell itself..

I believe the pulse into water must be of higher voltage than 12 to achieve that... i think is in the thousands volts range indeed but very sharp like i´m saying so takes few watts to give very strong pulses to water... also to get the electrons out of water is required to hold the water at a high potential probably over 5kv  to get an apreciable amount of current ...

the best way to go would be sequential pulses each with a higher voltage level since they will consume far less power than a simple high volatage single level pulse.. but once in operation perhaps is not needed.. the pulse also could be a ramp and do ok





 
Title: Stan tech stolen by Boing
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 07, 2018, 22:29:25 pm
Title: Boeing patents
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2018, 07:32:18 am
I have read some patents from them recently and i was kind of feeling they were doing some high tech development... until i found this!

In the tech brief meyer show the rocket design and interestingly it has all to do with theirs...

however i learned recently that patents are something a bit stupid.. you can get the patent on whatever thing you want up to a point just to legalize and protect something product or idea you are trying to sell.. there are offices that makes the drawings and even write the text of the patent based on some questions and answers they ask to the inventor..  mainly all you need to do is pay

this guys of boing are 10 years ahead of us because they have the money to do it and qualified engineers also

wish they had some space for interested personal ...

but hope we make it harder..
Title: Connecting dots
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2018, 17:50:34 pm
electrons emit radiation when they are at high speed and get magnetic fields in their way or when they are simply accelerated or de-accelerated

cyclotron radiation is how its called...

the power its capable of radiate is dependent on the ion or electron acceleration

it can emit whatever kind of radiation between microwaves and over xrays because you can vary the power of the radiation per charge changing the voltage for example while increase the amount of radiation by increasing current

if using a magnet on the cell we create a force on the moving ions and electrons the movement generate the required radiation we need...

meyer cell has the two connectors on the same size and it forms a circular magnetic field on water or toroidal if we want to calling names..

this toroidal field is formed by the current flowing in the cell ... it makes the ions go up or down depending on their direction...

the pumping action we see on long tubes is also caused by this

if we add a magnetic field normal to this field the ions will be forced in a spiral pattern

basically i believe we are getting some level of radiation when working with this cells and  high voltage discharges on it..

i was thinking if my sleep problems and artrosis at my hands can be derived from it..

probably this sort of radiation that was lighting the fluorescent bulbs ! actually with the cell not connected to the vic the lamp didnt light much


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2018, 23:28:19 pm
All that said is becoming clear that stan called it resonant cavity for a reason...

the voltage and magnetic fields and amps will determine the exact type of radiation we need so the water resistance is what is going to regulate how much radiation it will generate and voltage level and magnetic field of the discharge determine the radiation type..

Meyer car cell was totaly covered in aluminum and i believe that was for protection of personal and himself because this thing certain emits radiations of certain types in a broad range..

thats why horvath have the magnetic fields on the cell, to improve the process and the magnetic fields are parallel with the electrodes.. this forces a circular motion

perhaps meyer went otherway and decided to raise the voltage and work with higher destabilization of the molecules

water cavity work as a ultrasonic transducer when there is a toroidal magnetic field on it ...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2018, 09:37:55 am
that last part?
Title: a bit of loose thoughts
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2018, 10:47:58 am
If i am alowed to think out of thebox, then again i want to point to the middle of the milar tubular cell with 11 electrode sets in there.
Why did meyer choose a round circle set with a big empty space in thr middle?
Why not a square box?
or why not all 11 much closer to eachother? Make the cell more compact and save money on materials?
I tell you.......the missing component was in the middle of that cell housing....

Maybe a hugh electromagnet?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2018, 10:55:23 am
maybe a permanent magnet? i like the way you think!

perhaps than we can put a coil outside to combine the fields!!!!

Cool!
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 11, 2018, 17:36:34 pm
Heyy

yesterday i wound the chokes it got just right into the EE core....

I started with the thinner coil... it happen that when i went to buy the wire they sold me 21 awg instead of 22awg and so i had to make a small adaption for the turns number.. the 21 awg can get only 53 turns per layer
while the 18 awg can do 34

so i did two layers of 21 awg and 3 layers of 18 awg connected in series with their connection exposed for connecting to the secodnary coil and using a polyester film of 250um between each layers...

this polyester can isolate up to 18kv so its overkill...

 after i made it i started to test with my LC meter and for my surprise it was not working. anymore.. it got damaged from humidity or water so i woke up today very early and decided to try fixing it and i succeeded...

i had to clean the oxidation and soldering again many of the components and substitute a couple of buttons and a resistor...

the pcb of it is very complex with signals going up and down between the layers and some of the problems was this passages... so i had to scratch and solder..

now it finaly works and my chokes seems to have around 95mh with no gap

i highly suggest that you take the lcd off and apply some hot glue to hold the inductor in the LC100 A meter ...befor you run into problems like i did
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2018, 02:53:09 am
According to this document perhaps the 22 awg is correct.. in the internet most of the charts for awg dont consider the wire insulation...

this doc in attachment is very good about transformers design take a look

the coils without core measures around 260uH

with only half core 700uh

and with the core around 95 mh

this core has a huge permeability 7200nH/turn +- 25% according to the manual and with a gap of 6mm it become 100nH per turn or 200nH/turn for a 2,5mm gap

according to my calculations perhaps this is aready too big a coil to use but i will start with this as a manner to have adjustments to make

I have think a lot to get to the conclusion and still need to confirm but appear to me that the amps that will saturate the core is calculated based on the inductance the coil will have because this inductance times the current must give a magnetic field (not to be confused with flux that is magnetic field changing)

So if i calculated that it would need for example 100 turns for the primary and that it would saturate at a applied voltage frequency of 170v for example with no gap this transformer would saturate at very low amps.. but increasing the gap is possible to increase the saturation level because the inductance is reduced while the flux stay the same because the voltage frequency area and turns dont change

the higher the gap the lower is the coupling however...

finally i got think i´m starting to understand this

or probably not

kkkk
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2018, 23:05:18 pm
I watched some videos on youtube and found a interesting formula co relating the ipeak

its like this

I peak= Ae*n*Bmax/Henries

the core will saturate when the non linked currents arrive to this point

Title: Re: a bit of loose thoughts
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2018, 23:10:22 pm
If i am alowed to think out of thebox, then again i want to point to the middle of the milar tubular cell with 11 electrode sets in there.
Why did meyer choose a round circle set with a big empty space in thr middle?
Why not a square box?
or why not all 11 much closer to eachother? Make the cell more compact and save money on materials?
I tell you.......the missing component was in the middle of that cell housing....

Maybe a hugh electromagnet?

I was thinking about what you say here and it indeed make sense to put a permanent magnet in there to help concentrate the magnetic field on the tubes
however i can tell you this cells should not be made in the way we did it... stan planed to make it using plastic mold injection so there is no loss of material whatever is the design.,.
also the size and distance between electrodes also has to do with power dissipation.. i almost melt mine during tests.. those electrical connections heat a lot when forcing current thru them and melt the plastic that holds it leaking water
the reason its not a box is that is not as simple to make a pressurized container in square shape.. the circular shape holds more pressure...

the best strategy would be to have a small nut soldered to the tube and use a bolt to press the oring againt the tube to increase the connectivity

in one of my cells design i directly added a hole on the tube to the screw is screwed into the tube directly to improve conductivity inside the tube i provided a small disc of acrylic that isolate the part of screw that goes into while have holes to let the water come in

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2018, 10:07:50 am
did anybody had the change to test the metal of those Meyer 11 cell tubes?
was it maybe soft iron with nickel over it?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2018, 14:36:35 pm
i think he used stainless steel 304 such as to not allow the material to concentrate the magnetic fields... if it were magnetic the field would be shield by the material

perhaps thats exactly why he chose this material... it wont conduct magnetic material so it allow the fields to be there where the water is...

i think a magnetic material would draw the lines of force to itself

the magnetic fields must be parallel with the electrodes...

maybe the electrodes could be magnets them self!

at new zealand meyer draw some field lines on the capacitor plates that seem voltage equipotential lines but could be magnetic fields parallel with the electrode coudnt it? ???

elsewhere he also draw in this manner...

i believe we found something important understanding this radiation that can be created by accelerating this ions and electrons in this magnetic fields...

perhaps now we could even estimate the required fields to get anything in the range horvath claims

the power circuit i´m designing should be able to finally get 10kv or more across the water even if just for a instant of time 10khz per second

i think with this discharge voltage plus a magnetic field the trick can be done!

i will probably wind a coil around the single cell and check for how much field i can get there... i will maybe use this as a choke for applying dc thru the cell it self going thru the parallel coil to the cell

also i have decided to instead of using the energy of core one at the discharge i will use it for raising the voltage of the cell to high potential (EEC) using high voltage diode connected to the positive dc grounded source.. this will take electrons out of water when there is a high voltage applied to it and wont allow them to return.. . keeping the water charged 

i believe this will cause some equilibrium unbalance at the electrodes charges respective to water... and generate unstable gas

for that i simply will use a thinner wire than planned perhaps 29awg and give enough turns for it to get a nice voltage output maybe the 36 awg wire in the patent was for this!

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 13, 2018, 22:06:26 pm

some conclusions we have discussed over this years with nice equip tests


Title: toroid pdf
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 17, 2018, 17:02:20 pm
i found here reference for calculation of bmax of unipolar transformer to use a factor of 1 instead of 4.44 and this are a reliable source as they work with it!

doing this makes the transformer need 4 times more turns for the correct use of the core

for the 4.44 factor i found different contraditories explanations for it.. but i guess the most correct is that

 1.11* the factor is the adaption to sine wave...

from the 4:

2 is because off you charge the core two times in a cycle (case of sine or square wave)

and 2 is because charging the core in both ways you can actually use double the bmax
 
using unipolar pulsing require 4 times the turns needed for square wave therefore since we are only varying bmax from zero to max and only applying pulse during on time...

 


Title: the drive module
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 23, 2018, 18:40:47 pm
I´m building a module for the igbt and scr to work in a different case from the pulsing circuit

the idea is that i want to split the hot part from the circuit part...

also will give me more room to organize the circuit (i want to remake it all... )

 here there is going to be two heat sinks from computer cpus... i believe they will do the job well

one is little smaller from a pentium processor( this one is round ) here i put the scr

and other is bigger from a older amd computer and this is square shape and have more space for components.. here i will put the igbt and some diodes... it will also have a 30amp isolation diode at the input but this will sit at another heat sink

all the heat sinks will be floating hold by plastic or teflon spacers to get a isolation of at least 10kv from the box ,.. ideally more than 10kv... this will form a capacitance and is better it to be as smaller as possible.

this is because i dont like to use plastic spacers between the igbt and the heat sink as is more safe to work without burning

i´m using an old cpu desktop lateral as the case

this module will be connected to the transformer directly

so maybe i will left some space for two sensing circuits to interface with the pll just in case (or left for a future mod)






Title: new pll idea
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2018, 08:38:17 am
I came up with a theory about the operation of the pll that i may not have thought before...

the circuit i´m designing should get high power discharge on water at high repetition rate

meyer says in the patent that when a resonant condition is achieved the pll will lock in and hold there at that frequency..

the discharge time calculated for my system is around up to 1MHz so if using a 100 times frequency divider is possible to have something around 10khz !

so theres two frequencies one of the water resonance that will be feedback to the divider and than to pin 14 while the other is the applied frequency but taken from the transformer for timing precision...

when resonance happens on water than the pll should lock into it but applying a lower frequency to tune to that,,
Title: weekend workings
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 30, 2018, 20:23:18 pm
this weekend i organized my lab installing some shelf to put all my stuff previously sitting over my tables where i should be working.. this may improve my efficiency finding tools and building...

i cant believe how long i survived at this level of mess hahaha

had to spend 100 dollars on organization! hopefully helps me save some time and energy!

a total of 5 shelf and 20 small box to organize! Also i got a 30w Led lamp for the lab to get the dark away!

full power now!

 
Title: Circuit diagram
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2018, 00:43:09 am
I´m working on a pcb for a new pll frequency generator that i´m going to build for the new tests...

i working based on this previous diagram from 2015 but without the frequency mixer...

basically is the same circuit i have here but this one will have less wire around and will be easier to change the connections among the Ics since i´m adding some jumper connections that can be easily exchange with other points in the circuit..

i´m doing this because i want it to be as flexible as possible... easy to change capacitors, resistors...

i was thinking about getting this circuit done professionally but it costs like around 120 reais for each DoubleLayer pcb and the minimum amount is 5... so if its only for me is not viable at all...

i already have the tools to do the pcb here with photografic process so i´m doing that...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xh0MPitnFYcU64fkyW67H6mw6mWC3Uqw (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1xh0MPitnFYcU64fkyW67H6mw6mWC3Uqw)


Title: lockin ckt at patent is wrong
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2018, 07:48:09 am
hello

i noticed that the lock in ckt is wrong...

when the pll is in lock the signals at comp in and sig in should be exactly in time.. therefore this makes the small capacitor to get charged and make the signal on the led indicating the lock to go low instead of high..

also the signal is not arriving correctly on the norgates

i believe i had came to this conclusion on the past and that my circuit that is working i have changed this..

thats why i want to build another one.. as i dont remember all the things i changed
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2018, 09:35:00 am
Go Fabio go!

The pll master :)
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2018, 16:02:20 pm
guys check this component... its a very nice way to get a variable dc source!

http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/108345fh.pdf
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2018, 22:38:17 pm
I took the 74hct7046 out of a circuit i had build some 10 years ago.. and it was working! i arranged in a breadboard to test its viability... i had two circuits ... one was dead and one good! i dont find this chip to buy here in brazil ... i bring them from italy... 

so i just tested the lock output and is just like i said!

when the signal is = at pin 3 and 14 the lock signal goes high!

if the signal is high it must go to the bilateral switch that connects the pin13 and filter to the pin 9... and only after that to invert and go to the other bilaterl that connects the scanning ckt...

reverse!
Title: scan circuit 5v
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2018, 00:58:16 am
$ 1 0.0001992 40.34287934927352 64 7 50
w 368 304 336 304 0
r 192 368 336 368 0 100000
w 336 368 368 368 0
w 336 368 336 400 0
w 336 400 368 400 0
c 336 400 336 464 0 0.000009999999999999999 1.8695260321009406
g 336 464 336 480 0
w 336 240 432 240 0
R 336 240 272 240 0 0 40 5 0 0 0.5
O 496 336 560 336 0
165 368 272 432 224 2 0
w 432 240 496 240 0
w 496 240 496 304 0
a 624 384 736 384 8 5 0 1000000 2.499966244298395 2.5 100000
c 624 304 736 304 0 0.000009999999999999999 -0.8756039161843194
w 736 304 736 384 0
w 624 304 624 368 0
r 528 368 624 368 0 70000
w 736 256 736 304 0
w 624 256 624 304 0
r 736 256 624 256 0 200000
r 496 240 560 160 0 10000
r 560 160 656 160 0 10000
g 656 160 656 192 0
w 192 368 192 528 0
w 192 528 528 528 0
w 528 528 528 368 0
w 496 336 528 336 0
w 528 336 528 368 0
w 560 160 560 400 0
w 560 400 624 400 0
O 736 384 816 384 0
o 27 32 0 12298 5 0.0001 0 2 27 3
o 31 32 0 12546 3.7255810071758773 0.0001 0 1
Title: what a pll really do
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2018, 17:21:09 pm
Wow

i just came to a conclusion i never did before...

i may have understood all the point behind using this pll and all

pay attention this is huge

i even ask you for donations if you can!

hahaha jokes a part

the pll is know to get the right frequency to get two signals perfectly in phase! isnt it?

so we know that when we have an antena and we have to match the impedance to get the most of the power on it.. . this is the point where the circuit sees it as a pure resistance because the current is perfectly in phase with the voltage being applied

all that said

when we disconnect the pin 4 from pin 3 we start to have a two independent systems one is the vco and one is the phase comparator that comands the vco

the pll must receive from the vic two signals to work perfectly

one is a voltage signal

and one is a current signal

and they simply need to be in phase... there is going to be a frequency that its going to happen and the pll will maintain it because of the lock mechanism

to get this signal is important to use a current transformer... this way it wont loose the isolation

a current transformer can be easily done with a small toroid and a couple of coils... one coil must have a resistor in parallel with it that going in series with the circuit... the other coil display the voltage across the resistor...

this signal goes to the pin 14 thru the lm318 to amplify it

the voltage signal must be taken from a secondary coil in the same vic core... few turns also amplified by another lm318  and going to pin 3 

both signals must pass thru the lm318 because it must have the same delay to make the pll work right!

Title: the freq dividers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2018, 17:56:04 pm
the freq dividers has the function of giving other ranges of frequency preserving the bandwidth

for example if your center frequency is 100Hz this means the maximun frequency is 200hz and minimum frequency for ex 50Hz

the bandwidth is 150hz because it can lock from 50hz to 200hz ...this is wide

meyers says that the expected variance in resonant frequency is around 10% somewhere ... this mean that 150hz of bandwidth is good for a 1,5khz frequency range

so we need to set the r2 accordingly to get a off set in frequency.... reducing r2 increase the frequency but kind of maintain the bandwidth so i came up with the great idea

i´m going to make a kind of double potentiometer so as i increase the r1 i increase r2 proportionally.

this will change the frequency off set and the bandwith at same time... preserving the ratio.. .so when this is done for example for working from 10khz to 100khz than i can use the dividers and preserve the same ranges!





Title: pll amazing animal
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2018, 19:51:23 pm
this pll is an amazing animal

i found that changing the capacitor change the range without messing with the bandwidth

the bandwidth is given by the ratio of r2 to r1

i found that a ratio of R1 > R2 +-= 5:1 to produce a nice result

using a 22kohm and 4,7kohm gives 13% bandwidth

so is possible to say that we could use a 220kohm and a 47kohm resistor rotating as one connected in series with this resistors respectively should give the 10x increase in frequency maintaining the bandwidth constant allong all the way...
 
if we want to change the bandwidth with a switch for example we could for example reduce the capacitance to increase the frequency and at the same time a frequency divider have the same frequency range but with different levels of bandwidth

other way to do it would be to have instead of 2 potentiometers glued.. to have 3.. this way using a double two way switch you can select the capacitor to be half and at same time switch in another pot in series with the r1 for ex to decrease the F0 this way the bandwidth will be 5% depending on what you choose...

if we have 3 frequency dividers in series we could imaging having maybe 10%  bw range 1% range and perhaps 0.1% range...  0.1% of 5khz is 5 hz and if we are using the 100 division range for ex you are actually working with 500khz so it has a 100000 positions for each hertz that it can hit so it can be perfectly seeing that is able to control the phase well!

hope i made the idea clear enough...

next step would be to develop a dual digital potentiometer for simply control the frequency range digitally. something like the ds1803 or something... 



 
Title: fm radio
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2018, 20:07:43 pm
A fm radio uses a pll to distinguish between stations...

i guess the station you select by changing the off set R2

and the output gain by selecting the R1... because this control the center frequency and as the modulation in frequency will be limited to some extent... so this parameter will indicate how the vco will vary its voltage following the frequency modulation...

this modulation is than amplified to get to the speakers..

the pin 10 is a voltage follower of the pin 9 to give this output with more power to be amplified without interfering on the reception of the signal.


 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2018, 23:05:05 pm
Hello fabio.

I thought that PLL channel selector was a binary coded divider between the VFO and the PLL input, but I may be wrong.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2018, 06:01:59 am
this is a good tread, but dont forget the basics, first there was a crystal radio, then later a anteena coupler. The german diode which breaks down.

The anteena coupler was the most important of all. also, there was a tunable receiving coil on the coupler, those basics almost always get overlooked. I should point out, the coupler on the anteena connected between anteena and earth ground is isolated from the rest of the circuit.
Title: fm
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2018, 10:12:17 am
hey X-blade i´m not completely sure but so far as i remember from a book i read on this the stations are selected in a digital radio by a digital potentiometer that has the off set frequencies at some regular interval... so when we simply change the station the pll will try to lock into the frequency so it can follow it... it follows it by comparing with the frequency output at pin four straight into pin 3 so at pin 14 you get the antena connection..

Hydrocars what this coupler you talk about? i have little knowledge on antenas wish i could know more but I aways want to learn! 

today i was trying to figure out this antena idea...

the only reason i have for it is that i know an antena has high electric fields when its irradiating power and i believe this fields can be what we need to accomplish things like ionization etc..

an antena so far as i understand can irradiate only because of one thing!

thats because its connected to a transmission line that allow the waves to go up on it...

however what is actually happening is that the antena is developing a high voltage at the end... so if we could apply directly high voltage to an antena it should have the same effect?.

not sure because transmission lines although work pretty much like a transformer at 1/4 wave it also creates this transformation by some different means... so its hard to know..

but my best guess is that you can use high voltage to directly transmit over an antena

i´m wrong?
Title: insight
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2018, 10:54:11 am
https://repositorio.inesctec.pt/bitstream/123456789/4505/1/P-00N-71A.pdf
Title: Investigating water properties
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2018, 11:00:35 am
I thought of a way to investigate electromagnetic water properties...

i think i could get a 3m water pipe 10 inch diameter and fill it with water...

at one side add a transmitter (source of magnetic or electric fields) and on the other side a coil connected to the oscilloscope...

i guess it will be possible to measure the electromagnetic wave speed thru it! provided there is enough isolation of noise!

inserting a wire inside from end to end is also possible to study the electrical length of it etc...

if course 3 meters is not very long but is something we can work with...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2018, 23:30:00 pm
I realized we can use the ac712 as a direct isolated feed back of current or voltage!
of course the cheaper the better... a transformer here is a very small toroid with few turns so dont cost much either

that said i will proably get a couple more for this operation and see the viability..

it could be used between the primary and the diode that goes to the tvs this way it could capture the voltage reversal peak there and send an isolated signal to the lm318 to get right

is the pll phase comparators edge triggered so the point is to detect the voltage spike and compare with the current flow phase...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2018, 03:26:17 am
finishing the pcb design...

i decided to add a safety logic to it so i can simply add a pressure sensor to the cell and let it work to get the max pressure i set up and it stop any signal to the cell

i´m using a nor gate with the gate signal and the pressure signal just before noring the gate signal with the vco just before going into inhibit pin 5

this way if the pressure is high the gate wont be able to turn the circuit on...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2018, 03:41:21 am
I have finished the pcb for the most part

i only used

2x 555 timer
1x lm393
2x lm318
1x 74hct7046
1x tc4420
1x 74hc4066
1x sn74ls02
3x cd4017

3x trim pots

5x potentiometers being 2 a coupled dual potententiometer

1x 4 way switch (pll capacitor and frequency divider ranges) control bandwidth and or frequency range as determined by a two way switch
1x 6way switch (switch capacitors for range in the gate circuit)

here i have all the main circuits

resonant scanning (0,7hz triangle wave from 1,25v to 3,75v)
two pulse indicator circuits (one  for pin 3 comp in and one for the pin 14 sign in of the pll )
gate   (gate freq generator)
pll   ( phase locked loop)
driver (ic for driving the igbt or mosfet directly)
safe logic (system for adding a pressure sensor to stop the gas production at certain pressure predetermined using of course a external reading means for determining the pressure)
lock indicator led (indicates a lock condition for easy to see )
pulse on led (indicates pulse are active )
and the feedback led  (indicates the feedback is receiving signal)

feedback, pulse out, gate ..  bnc outputs
VCO voltage bnc output too
 

for the safe logic i used one of the lm393 amplifier to create a simple comparator such that if the pressure at the sensor signal pass above a certain level it will generate a high signal that will prevent the gate to pass thru the nor gate..

the pressure signal must go also else where on the circuit of control of the injector pulse width for compensating for the pressure... this would allow a better on demand functionality

the missing parts for the complete car are

the digital accelerator that can be a simple potentiometer

the analog voltage generator that generates a voltage signal in correspondence with the rpm to

than in the injector system control the timing for increase the hydrogen input during acceleration and maintaining a lean condition when idling

i guess having a stable hydrogen production and being able to maintain a pressure is the very first step to be able to  test the enhancement of the thermal reaction

after this i can start playing with electron extraction and so on

so Steve how much gas were you using for running that bike?





Title: printed version
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 11, 2018, 09:21:54 am
here is what im working with

the circuit schematic and the pcb

im doing a photographic process at home with photosensitive paint so i had to invert the colors and print a transparent of the the top and down side ... so the pcb will have to be drill hole by hole but there is less holes as possible since that why i chose to use a kind of smd pcb for part of the pins... most of the supply pins 'has holes also valid fo'r components but mostly where the signals had no way to go i changed layer

there are some signal jumpers to allow it to continue or to allow to simply interrupt and let it else where like on the freq dividerts etc

hope you enjoy

Title: Pics
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 12, 2018, 02:02:56 am
to do this pcb is easy with photosensitive paint

once you have the circuits board masks printed and they must be a negative print

the first step is to apply a spray varnish on one side of the pcb and wait to dry to protect from the first corrosive step... put in front of a ventilator to speed up drying

second step is to clean the other side of the pcb with bom bril (iron brush) 

third step to apply the photosensitive paint..you must work on a low light condition! do it once with a soft pincel in one direction only than leave it dry in front of a ventilator than repeat the application using the pincel in the perpendicular of the original direction you chose..

fourth step is to get the transparency over it and apply florecent light for a couple of minutes

five you must drop the pcb in a 70% alcool vessel and use a piece of cotton to brush and gently remove the part of the paint that has not being cured by the light ..

six corrode the pcb

seven make some centering holes that will be useful to center the other mask and take off the varnish from the other side and clean it...

eight apply varnish to the side of the pcb you just corroded (like first step)

go back to the second step and use the other mask to do the other side of the pcb



Title: Re: printed version
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 12, 2018, 13:28:39 pm
here is what im working with

the circuit schematic and the pcb

im doing a photographic process at home with photosensitive paint so i had to invert the colors and print a transparent of the the top and down side ... so the pcb will have to be drill hole by hole but there is less holes as possible since that why i chose to use a kind of smd pcb for part of the pins... most of the supply pins 'has holes also valid fo'r components but mostly where the signals had no way to go i changed layer

there are some signal jumpers to allow it to continue or to allow to simply interrupt and let it else where like on the freq dividerts etc

hope you enjoy


I am so impressed!
Well done, bro!
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 12, 2018, 14:05:23 pm
thanks bro happy that you like it!

i´m doing some minor corrections to the drawing while i will build it so soon i post the new updated drawings for you for if anyone wants to build their own

i´m trying to get more organized perhaps that was something important that i never gave any importance before and now is helping me get more vision of what i´m doing.

i was testing the components today before the soldering process.. and i found something that freak me out for a minute .. the cd7046 output was high instead of low when the pin 5 (inhibit)was brought to high,  i dont know why but it works correctly when the nor  logic  is connected ... seemed very strange and i was afraid it was not working well but now i´m confident again with it... ha

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 13, 2018, 22:36:22 pm
Pcb down side before corrode00
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2018, 00:58:01 am
i have a little problem with the lm741 of the scanning circuit... it only goes from 2v up i would like it to go down to 1.25 volts ... any one know what i can do ?
Title: the baisca car system with gas
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2018, 04:14:35 am
hey

for the car to work we need:

clock signal from rpm

circuit that generates a fixed width pulse for each clock signal in (this is the idle)

when we accelerate the frequency of the clock  signal increase automatically so the distance between the pulses become smaller and so the gas production increase with the rpm.. but if there is no pressure left when you accelerate perhaps the engine will die.. .

the pressure sensor cut  the production of gas when it reach a certain pressure normally

but to get a nice operation we should have two states

one accelerating

one not accelerating

basically than we need a minimum pressure to be maintained in the cell to be able to accelerate instantly while the rpm don´t increase

and perhaps a manner to increase the pulse width according with the acceleration pedal


the gas management will be needed to fuse it




 

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2018, 10:14:12 am
(just a thought)One solenoid valve for idle and 7-10  small-micro solenoid valve calibrated for accelerating.?
Title: GMS
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2018, 14:59:21 pm
(just a thought)One solenoid valve for idle and 7-10  small-micro solenoid valve calibrated for accelerating.?

Hey man good to hear from you.

I´m thinking to reduce the components at maximum

i sleep over this idea and came up with this

the cell will need a minimum pressure to work with since the gas need a pressure difference to flow it seems reasonable to have at least 2 psi of pressure to start with

i believe to get the gas ionized into the engine the main idea will be to deliver the gas thru a silicon tubing directly or very close to the combustion chamber... all the parts must be cover with plastic coating or corona dope.. after all we dont want to loose the ionization and or it to explode before time

to deliver the gas with safe i thing the gas injector must be connected to the air line like with a tube inside the other! this way the hydrogen wont be released continuously and therefore in case of a explosion it wont be able to reach the cell

meyer talk about this quenching process mixing non combustible and air gases with the hydrogen prior to transportation thru the line.. he had a heat sink for the exhaust gases if i remember well

so basically the positive air flow suction by the engine will intercalate with the hydrogen within the line making it safer to transport up to the combustion chamber

the car rpm is control by the amount of power each stroke (normally the buterfly control the air intake when you press the pedal it open allowing air and fuel to go inside)

so it generate a clock signal that is variable in frequency from something around 10 up to 100 hz so it gives us the region of 5ms of injection time as a maximum and perhaps 1ms as a minimum for idling therefor all it takes is to get a acceleration control is to have a monostable timer 555 connected with a light variable resistor assembly on the pedal (this work as a potentiometer basically is an arrangement of leds and light sensors connected in series such as to have something that comes out from inside when you accelerate that allow the sensos to be illuminated as it goes out) to control the injector timing.. the injector timing vs pressure will determine the acceleration

so if im going to set the pressure to a predetermined value and leave the gate to a maximum duty cycle on the pll side to simply have a stable pressure

when i press the pedal the timing will change but only for the injector

this signal of the injector also will preceed the electron extraction signal! i came to this conclusion because if we want to ionize the gases it must be done right close to the injection port because it takes real small time for it to lose its ionization...

this may be one of the main reason why meyer chose to inject on the spark plug

the injector timing circuit can get more elaborated if we add the pressure sensor to it to compensate automatically on the timing of the injector for the pressure change

for example if you have twice the pressure for the same time in injection you will have twice the flow or so therefore is easy to create a circuit to compensate for that too

this is the gms

what control the injector so basically is a monostable circuit trigered by engine's clock compensated with the pressure to achieve constant flow controling it on time independent of pressure withing certain limits.. also connected to the accelerator that increase the time it remain on proportionally to the pedal acceleration.. so it needs two potentiometers to define the idle and maximum acceleration

i believe the arduino could be useful here to create all this reading of sensor and control of timing since its very low frequency it should not be a problem for it..  may be easy as one 2 3

obs thinking about what you just said p85 it made me think of something

if we reduce this pressure limit than to a minimum the cell will be basically operating on demand so instead of the compensation for pressure the accelerator could directly than command the extra energy needed for acceleration by increasing pressure.. like if we set idle working on demand means that if we increase the hydrogen production it will increase rpm because of increase in pressure.. (of course if its not compensated as illustrated before or compensated only up to a certain point)


lets take the arduino example to easy engineer this

lets say we use a potentiometer 0-5v for the accelerator (one analog input)

the clock will come from the car of course go to a digital input

the pressure sensor go to a analog input

we can add a frequency reading to stabilize the loop using the clock from engine... 

than we create a program that takes the accelerator at 0v as the idling point..

at this point the frequency will be stable,

 if it senses it increase it proportionally reduce the injection time ( if the accelerator is at 0v)

if the pressure reduce for example it must increase the injection time or if it increase it will reduce this time

so i think of creating a variable the timing of injection

and its value will be sum or subtracted every cycle to compensate..
 for example:

if the pressure double the time will be divided by two but if the frequency increase every cycle it decrease say 100us of the injection time until it stabilize the rpm

the time is a variable so it can be set initially and have boundaries if you want but it can float

like a pll or pid

than when we accelerate the voltage is different than 0 and we can set that for each volt it will increase the timing proportionally of the injector

or and allow the pressure to increase some extent to allow acceleration on demand by directly producing more gas

i like the flexibility of it

however we need to have an analog circuit for cutting the gas production and also a pressure relay to open up the dc when the max pressure is reached in cause of malfunction with an alarm that sounds with it being reached!

the best would be to use 2 or 3 sensors for safety!

 









 

Title: transporting ionized gas
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 15, 2018, 17:15:33 pm
transporting ionized gas is the same as run with a bucket full of water in your hands.. you will get wet

the ionized gas will be attracted by any metal or even plastic by the electronic polarization, at plastics it will get stuck and only partially discharged but with metals it lose its charge...

so the strategy is to have a very well insulated tubing that brings all the ionized gas straight into the combustion chamber.. silicon tubing seems a good option since stand high temps

also the injector must have a high voltage isolation from the car parts

when you charge something with high voltage it will have the opposite charge of the voltage you charged it with but it can even create higher voltages if this charges are collected at a point..

i think the injector should be totally plastic solenoid.. for it to work,,  perhaps costume made
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 19, 2018, 17:30:54 pm
Title: THE GMS IMPORTANCE
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 19, 2018, 19:13:32 pm
I´m very happy with the development of the arduino GMS because i realized it is just the best way to prove the technology of the enhancement of the combustion process with good indication numbers etc.

It will be able to control the rpm of the engine by a feedback of the pressure and rpm read and the set acceleration rpm

the difference between the read rpm and the set rpm will determine if the circuit is accelerating or not and how much

this causes an increase in injection time that automatically adjust to bring the engine rpm close to the set rpm

this comparison between the rpm is not by phase difference , its a digital comparison between numbers so the frequency can work out of lock without problem and always bring the circuit to the correct direction rapidly as it can be calculated very very fast!

the measured rpm comes from the engine clock that is counted and so every 500ms it saves the number into a variable and the rpm is  subtraction the previous value from it  and mutiplied by 120 


i found that the arduino generate extremely stable frequency due to the cristal source.. but to achieve that and the full speed it require to turn of the timer that governs the millis and other funtions and directly manipulate the ports with bits
Title: Re: transporting ionized gas
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 19, 2018, 19:25:50 pm
transporting ionized gas is the same as run with a bucket full of water in your hands.. you will get wet

the ionized gas will be attracted by any metal or even plastic by the electronic polarization, at plastics it will get stuck and only partially discharged but with metals it lose its charge...

so the strategy is to have a very well insulated tubing that brings all the ionized gas straight into the combustion chamber.. silicon tubing seems a good option since stand high temps

also the injector must have a high voltage isolation from the car parts

when you charge something with high voltage it will have the opposite charge of the voltage you charged it with but it can even create higher voltages if this charges are collected at a point..

i think the injector should be totally plastic solenoid.. for it to work,,  perhaps costume made


Interesting stuff
Never thought on that one..
Title: Re: transporting ionized gas
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 21, 2018, 15:42:48 pm
transporting ionized gas is the same as run with a bucket full of water in your hands.. you will get wet

the ionized gas will be attracted by any metal or even plastic by the electronic polarization, at plastics it will get stuck and only partially discharged but with metals it lose its charge...

so the strategy is to have a very well insulated tubing that brings all the ionized gas straight into the combustion chamber.. silicon tubing seems a good option since stand high temps

also the injector must have a high voltage isolation from the car parts

when you charge something with high voltage it will have the opposite charge of the voltage you charged it with but it can even create higher voltages if this charges are collected at a point..

i think the injector should be totally plastic solenoid.. for it to work,,  perhaps costume made


Interesting stuff
Never thought on that one..

stan himself said that if the charged gas pass inside a metal tube it will give of its charge to it charging the object to a voltage that it will not be able to further discharge if its not grounded...

how fast this occur i cannot tell but i guess is pretty much in the milliseconds or even microsecond range if not nicely insulated

stan solenoids seems covered in delrin excessively by the way!

every time i think about this i start thinking if there is no possibility of using this process of flowing ionized gas to generate electricity and i posted recently some patents that explain how to do with different size electrodes and plasma etc

and other that come in mind is the kelvin thunderstorm arrangement!

Meyer had the air reclaiming system in the tech brief telling he would process the output exhaust too so perhaps one way to get away with the electrons and still have the pump efect of the engine runing let him pull aways the electrons extracted

if we extract something we need to put it somewhere

electrons cannot be stored simply in a box or capacitor without their counterparts the holes (or absence of electrons) positive charges

the car would get charged with this electrons relative to ground and you get all this discharge on you when you get out of the car.

so for real if we want to do this with safety or we bring them to ground directly or find a way to create a negative ionizer to disperse them away as effectively as possible

it could be simply possible also that stan gave this negative charge to the non combustible gases or the air in the air processor to get into the reaction and have a neutral reaction

however if you think about this is possible even to create or favoring other reactions like with nitrogen, carbon dioxide, present in air etc

i was going to bed yeterday when i had the thought .. what is the signal of the lambda sensor be like

after all it is a oxygen sensor right? and if we use only hydrogen and oxygen from water already in the correct proportion it should not consume more oxygen from air... however nitrogen oxides may be formed too and this can be the non combustible gases

so the lambda sensor may be useful to determine the amount of non combustible gas in the non combustible gas line and this may have an effect on the non combustible gas solenoid timing and the air timing

to make the complete car we will probably need

air pump
water pump
3 solenoids
silicone tubing or something with good insulation like teflon or those new plastic with rapid connectors seems great for this and handle pressure well
pressure sensors
microcontrolers like arduino to handle the signals
a rotation encoder with 60 ticks or 120 would be very nice to get a better rpm reading precision 
or something that can directly convert the rpm to a analog signal...
also something that could work is the alternator signal perhaps a current feedback with hall sensor near the battery could do it
this would be much easier of course with a car that already have an injection system because we can simply get the signal of one of the injectors or the primary or of the flyback ...
but the rpm reading is something that we still need and must be fast and somehow accurate
a pll can convert the frequency into a voltage signal with easy and this can be converted to the rpm with good precision.. i guess is going to be my best alternative .. for this i will only use a normal pll like the 4046 but would give a lock indicator to it to also control the logics in case of  loose lock..


 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 23, 2018, 03:27:45 am

theres been no analysis of the gas produced in Meyer , Horvath , Puharich  inventions .
 
is the gas positive , negative or neutral charge ?
and how did it get that way ?

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 23, 2018, 16:57:50 pm
Hello massive!

what i know about ionization of gases is that you need to have a high electric field to get it to start at the minimum voltage potential possible... normally  needles and very sharp objects are going to give a much higher electric field than a flat plate

and to get further ionized as i explained first the gas must be in a non conductive environment and such as to not loose its charges thru wall or tubing or etc..

and than we need to achieve the best voltage to get it ionized... that is the small as possible and step increase such as to be able to use the current more efficiently at each voltage level

the energy you spend charging a capacitor a volt at a time is half the energy you need to charge the capacitor all in once.. there is even the paradox of the two capacitors discharging into the other where the energy disappear, but in this case the energy lost of the charging a capacitor mostly is lost into heat when charging and discharging ...

the same is for a ionizer because you are going to have a minimum current where it will start to ionize but if you raise the potential to raise the current directly you simply spend more joules for each electron you extract or add!

from what Stanley said it seems apparently that his process consist of ionizing the oxygen positively because this way it will bring the hydrogen into the fracturing process by appropriation of the hydrogens electrons by the oxygen

this tells me that perhaps the hydrogen gas could be ionized with opposite polarity to increase the atraction between the atoms before combustion.. and or the exhaust could carry the charge too

as i was trying to explain in the last post

there is no way to consume electrons in a closed environment so the charge must go somewhere

 

Title: other ways of ionizing
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2018, 02:24:47 am
there are a few other ways of ionizing molecules

one of them is the process of accelerating them with voltage to strike a target... to start with the initial voltage must ionize some molecules that are going to be attracted to a next plat where it colide and get ionized to a higher degree

the way of doing this with the oxygen could be a arrangement of ss screen where the gas come out of and it

than we must have other two electrodes one for the initial ionization and one for the impact ionization the one of the initial ionization can float only negatively by action of one diode and the other is above the second voltage level to give acceleration for the impact that goes thru another diode allowing only positive charges

the action than occur when the atoms negatively ionized arrive at the target as they are going to have a lot of accumulated energy due to the applied voltage than when they strike the metal the electrons can go elsewhere if we let a another diode connected to ground for example. a current will result because will be easier for the electrons to simply go to ground than to discharge thru the charging system because of the high impedance


                       ions output
                      O++++ N+++
L---|>|---/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/----|<|----GND or electron consuming device such as other ionizer
L   D2     ss screen accelerating potential free electrons at impact
L             
L
L                           ^   ^   ^   acceleration force
L   D1              O2--  N2-
L----|<|------/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/  SS SCREEN     NEGATIVE ionize atoms
L
L                                <------------GAS INPUT
L
L______GND


other way to do it  is by a kind of multipacting

where the ionized gas is placed between two electrodes that are both brought to positive potential but there is a a frequency also applied to make the ionized gas bounce back and forth between the electrodes... i gues is the case of the hydrogen gas gun 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2018, 09:21:15 am

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2018, 04:21:05 am
i´m doing some tests with the arduino gms system with the oscilloscope

it appears that it can be indeed useful for this task

it would require someone with better knowledge on how to access the ports and programing than me but i guess i will be able to create a simple system that will be simply improved with someone with knowledge on programing

i think i understood why meyer aways talk about the hydrogen speed can reach the burning speed of gasoline...

the cars have an advance in spark that is related to the time the gas will have to burn entirely for reaching most pressure on the point of most compression

if we send a too fast burning gas it will work on making harder for the piston to go up,,

i think the idea than would be to kind of retard the spark for working with a hydrogen mixture with no slow burn

have to think over it

back to the gms stuff

i designed a  3 state acceleration process

one state is accelerating of course

other state is stable

and other is deaccelerating

its detected by pressing the pedal... this sets the rpm as desired

the system than measure the rpm and compare with the set rpm and depending on the difference it define the state

if the state is accelerating every cycle it increase by an amount the injection time within a range determined by the differences in the rpm

when the rpm measured reach the set rpm it start to oscillate the injector time up or down depending on the difference of the readings to match exactly the rpm set



 


Title: THE GMS start
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2018, 17:46:51 pm
this is the gms very first start it has a kind of automatic handling of the injector timing to reach the rpm we set by the analog/digital accelerator

still missing linking the acceleration with the max time of the injector but already would work with one injector
missing the output for the other solenoids for air and exhaust

i guess the order for injection should be first air than hydrogen than exhaust or reverse this way there is aways air or exhaust on the line between the hydrogen output making it safe for not having back fire in the cell  (for the case of using the 3 injectors design)

i´m using an analog input interrupt as the rpm counter and the injector triger goes into the digital interrupt (the analog interrupts dont interrupts the external interrupts digital pin one and 2)

there are two ranges of adaption when you change the rpm one that is faster when the difference in rpm is greater than 50 rpm and one that is fine when the rpm is within 5 rpm difference... (it will always happen some difference)

i had to reintegrate the timer to use the millis to better count the rpm but its ok because its working very nicely now since appears that as the signal trigger to the injector comes from the interrupt it dont have any delays or inconsistency in the pulse!

it turns out that if i want to use the arduino nano it will require a safe logic to determine each injector will be firing

the nano having only two interrups can deal only with two injectors trigger directly for more only adding logics

an arduino mega has 4 interrupts  or esp 32 could do everything we want and probably faster

i have a few spare and i plan to get a code for it too as esp32 have as many interrupt as needed

the only side effect is that is 3,3v logic so it require some resistors to work safe with 5 volts logic basically or those level converters not by far a problem
 the esp 32 is multicore aparently too


so as you see i´m doing some advance on the GMS

whos gona test? i dont have a working engine.. nor money to get injectors or other stuff (trying to work on that but is not being easy and probably if the money come my time will go because i´m probably starting a new company that deals with refrigeration systems , when i get funds it will explode! but my investors certainly wont let me work anyelse project for while so i´m focusing now)

if some of you could maybe do a nice donations i could get some of the parts and try doing the tests needed, now i´m 33 and after 13 years working on this i got a lot of energy and knowledge from this time spend but at the same time i didnt focused in making money consistently so at this point of my life i have no money spare.. all i have is a fiat uno 2003 lend from my dad, my test equipments, and work on the streets selling homemade beer to live... also fix some equiments and do some other jobs that appears but is hard getting the end of the month, if werent for my parents surely i could not be here today writing this now. So if any of you feel the value of what we are constructing here, the knowledge that we are developing here feel free to help and be an active part on this at this very special moment because i still have energy and yet time to invest. All this components i have here to work with except for the ones 2 or 3 people send to me i got over the years at the moments that i had some money spare so i converted to components spare becuase i know that when i didnt have the money because spend elsewhere i would not be able to do anything latter with no components.

the link for the donations is in thru this pages and i wont be repeating it everywhere first to not get the risk of losing what i write eventually because there are certain links that simply make everything i wrote disappear and to not disturb the discussion. So if you please want to donate go back thru this pages, read the content and if you feel you can please help... every dollar or euro is more than 4 reais.... and everything we buy from outside here cost up to 4 times what cost for you there not taking account the conversion! So if you want to send me injectors, or whatever you have that you feel it could help me just give me a message and  i send you the address coordinates for the mail.


unsigned long newtime=0;

// inputs

int accel = A0;   // analog/digital accelerator signal
int pressure = A1;
int clocksignal = 3; // //input interrupt 1 / pin 3
int injector = 13;  // injector output
int rpmreadpin= A2;

unsigned int rpmread = 0;
int rpmset = 0; // rpm determined by analog/digital accelerator
String state;

float injectiontime = 5; //ms  injection timming
float timeincrement = 0.001;
float timedecrement = 0.001;
int mininjectiontime = 1;
float maxinjectiontime=10;
int maxrpmset=6000;
int minrpmset=1000;
int stable=50;
int finestable=5;
float finetimeincrement = 0.00001;
float finetimedecrement = 0.00001;

volatile unsigned int newPos;
volatile unsigned int count=0; // analog2 interrupt rotine counter rpm read signal
bool rpmstate=0;
bool lastrpmstate=1;

volatile int clockcount;
int lastclockcount;

int avecount;
int average1;
int average2;
int average3;
int average4;


void setup() {
  DDRB |= 0B00100000;  // pinMode(injector, OUTPUT); pin 13
  Serial.begin(9600);
  pinMode(clocksignal, INPUT_PULLUP);//d3
  pinMode(rpmreadpin, INPUT);//A2

//cli();
//TIMSK0 &= ~(1 << TOIE0);  // disble timer
//sei();

PCICR |= (1 << PCIE1);    // This enables Pin Change Interrupt 1 that covers the Analog input pins or Port C.
PCMSK1 |= (1 << PCINT10) | (1 << PCINT11);  // This enables the interrupt for pin 2 and 3 of Port C.

attachInterrupt(1, INJECTION, RISING);
  }

ISR(PCINT1_vect) {
count++;
}

void loop() {
 rpmset=constrain((analogRead(accel)*6),minrpmset ,maxrpmset);   // rpm determined by analog/digital accelerator

 if (rpmset > (rpmread + stable)) {
  state="Accelerating" ;  // injection time increase
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime+timeincrement),1,10);
  } else if ( rpmset < (rpmread-stable)) {
  state="Deaccelerating"; // injection time reduce
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime-timedecrement),mininjectiontime,maxinjectiontime); 
  } else {
    state="Stable";
    if (rpmset > (rpmread + finestable)) {
  state="fineAccelerating" ;  // injection time increase
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime+timeincrement),1,10);
  } else if ( rpmset < (rpmread-finestable)) {
  state="fineDeaccelerating"; // injection time reduce
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime-timedecrement),mininjectiontime,maxinjectiontime);
  }

  }
if (millis() > newtime+500 ){
  newtime=millis();
   rpmread=count*12;
avecount++;
if (avecount == 1)average1=rpmread;
if (avecount == 2 )average2=rpmread;
if (avecount == 3 )average3=rpmread;
if (avecount == 4 ){
  average4=rpmread;
  avecount=0;
}
rpmread=(average1+average2+average3+average4)/4;
printcallback() ;
count=0;
}
}

void INJECTION() {  //interrupt routine
   PORTB |= 0B00100000;   //digitalWrite(injector, HIGH);
   delayMicroseconds(injectiontime*1000);
   PORTB &= 0B11011111;   // digitalWrite(injector, LOW);

}
void printcallback() {
 Serial.print("Accelerator  ");
Serial.print(rpmset);
Serial.println(" RPM SET");
Serial.print("Injection Time ");
Serial.print(injectiontime);
//Serial.print(injectiontime);
Serial.println(" miliseconds");
Serial.print(rpmread);
Serial.println(" RPM Measured ");
Serial.println(state);
}
Title: 4 cycle 4 cylinder
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2018, 20:12:38 pm
a 4 cycle 4 cyclinder engine works by having one explosion every half turn of the crankshaft

therefor the distributor was sending 4 signals in sequence for each cylinder and

probably the air and exhaust gas used other two injectors to control the amount to inject

the
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 27, 2018, 02:14:56 am

dont forget there is a resident high voltage guy on this forum who shows up now and then and shares his plasma experiments


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2018, 03:06:46 am
yes  i remember too!

hope he come up with some comments on this too!

i did some drawings of a circuit to get the atoms ionized hopefully by this impact ionization

the first state uses a negative source with the idea of getting the oxygen atoms negatively charged in a way that it can be accelerated towards a electrode at high positive voltage...

this will cause many collisions with other non ionized air in the middle and get it ionized liberating electrons, also this electrons will form other ions and other collisions in the way to the positive electrode... when it get to the positive electrode the oxygen will lose maybe up to four electrons and the atoms also will get unstable... the positive electrode is a screen of stainless stell so the electrons will get discharged and the gas pass high positively charged. afted this stage we get a bunch of ions of one polarity and they can be accelerated again now with more power since they are more ionized and now they can be accelerated with higher force!

i believe electrodes  must be kept small in size to have the gas more strongly ionized...

the mean free path, that is, the minimum piece of way the atoms can be accelerated before they hit another atom and lose its energy or part of its energy, is small in air at normal pressure, therefore a vacuum helps a lot increasing the mean free path and the energy of the collisions...

in air the mean free path at sea level is around 40nm only... this mean that the atoms will travel 40nm to collide..

that mean that only the particles within 40nm of the positive plate will hit the positive plate...

well there is two ways of increasing the energy of particles in a linear or oscillatory way..

perhaps the whole deal is to get some molecules really exited and just that.. they perhaps can have a life span more than few miliseconds and all and be usefull

to do that as become obvious some vacuum would help increase the mean free path at the expenditure of some energy

however meyer stated that under laboratory condition 1 galon of water has the same amount of energy of 2,5 bilion barrels of oil

so converting mass into energy directly

genius

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2018, 11:02:35 am
if we could apply 50kv in a 1 mm gap we would have 2v per each 40nm

i guess with this picture is possible to understand vacuum can be very useful to get more electron volts per collision! And it dont need to be so strong to get a good effect...

i guess if we could reduce the pressure like 10 times would be just enough!

of course it will indeed consume more power the more gas we use, electrically and mechanically speaking because of the ionization and the vacuum maintainment

we saw from that video that they bombard the target with deuterium atoms (at high vacuum of course) with 200kv to get neutrons out of the molecules...

with oxygen atoms since we can have it ionized with more charge and as it has a mass 8 times greater than the deuterium, it will acquire up to 30 times more energy only by having more mass, and charge. So when it strike our target it will not only get ionized but some atoms that are isotopes can lose one neutron ( a neutron become hydrogen atom after 11 minutes life time )  this neutrons when get touch with other atoms exite their nuclei like explained in the video until it is absorbed by another molecule or decay...

so with good vacuum and around 7kv to 20kv oxygen can have a interesting behavior

or with less vacuum and greater voltage also...,

if its absorbed by another molecule the molecule will become unstable (having a longer life time)

the molecules that interact with the neutron get nuclear exited also.

when the nuclei are exited  the molecules can maintain their self ionized for longer time...




Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2018, 11:05:42 am
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_activation
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neutron_temperature
https://www.lesker.com/newweb/technical_info/vacuumtech/basicvac_03_vacterms.cfm?
Title: what a sounding theory
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2018, 14:24:55 pm
I had some work to do yesterday with the beer production... while i was cooking another 50 liters of beer i had time to think over this things i have talked about...

it appear to me like i´m finally asking myself the right questions.. after all meyer wanted to confuse us for the most part.

definitely a good question was how he exite his gas! those leds can be of some help but is clear enough that given the process of achieving fusion or a nuclear decay will be not as simple as getting light over it...
 of course perhaps the light can do an effect too on the bare atoms or perhaps in conjuction with the electric fields
..

but the main point in this theory is that

the exited species wont last long

for this will be required an injection system to be able to use the gas as soon as is created (immediately)

they will require probably vacuum, high voltage, leds, magnetron or xray and ground to be formed (since electrons must go somewhere or one of the gases (exhaust)  in the process must take the opposite charge away or to neutralize the reaction)


i believe x rays also can exite the atoms nuclei to some degree..  since it has a very small focus point however is much easier for it to interact with the electrons of the nuclei however if the atoms are bare missing electrons although the nucleus is many times smaller than the electrosphere there is a chance for the ray to get in the nucleus

as physics tells us there is two points on making an atom to absorb energy, one is if the energy has a specific frequency that interacts with it, and depending on the amplitude or potential of this energy that will tell what is going to happen with the atom...

in therms of photons energy is proportional to frequency...

 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2018, 16:07:43 pm
but how exactly an atom absorb a photon!

why it need to have a certain wave length to be absorbed? 

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 02, 2018, 05:41:56 am
so basically what does the wavelength spectrum tell us about the structure of the atom?

i guess the wave lengths absorbed by atoms can perhaps tell us the arrangement of the electrons in the atom...

im starting to think that the way the atoms absorb the photon is similar to the xray generation...

i guess the wave forces the electron into the lower level first but as it cannot sit there it is ejected or increase the energy level than generate a photon with the energy difference returning to ground state...

this would mean that a wave has something that in vacuum connect the positive and negative sides  and that when this positive and negative meet the atoms with same configuration it can be tunneled inside the atom and be absorbed...

like if the atoms had a certain holes that only allow specific size not bigger nor smaller packets of energy to enter!

we have this idea that the higher is the energy level the atom will be on a larger circunference of orbit... this is not necessarily true

there are other properties perhaps being overlooked

the higher is the mass of a planet the higher is the orbit it can do around the sun for the same linear speed since will have more gravity to hold it

if we think the electron have a fixed mass the only variable would be indeed the velocity, so a greater energy lead to a higher orbit and less attraction to the nucleus...

however this wont explain how the energy levels are quantized and how the energy comes out by returning to a lower energy level

i think to the photon to be absorbed its possible that the wave first do one thing than do another thing to the electron.... and perhaps the atom have a certain different geometry for the electromagnetic waves to run

understanding this can lead us to understand how the atoms are so stable? how to destroy them?


 

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 05, 2018, 00:55:22 am
i recover the access to my youtube channel..

if you want to see the upcoming videos please subscribe and give a thumbs up if you like the videos...

i´m going to make a series of videos about stanley meyer technology and how i get up here and where i´m going

i´m doing this with the hope that the international community feel how serious i´m about it, to spread information and inspire education (since we live in a world of stupids) and  to inspire anyone who feel like to donate and help support the cause

i found a 4t gasoline generator 2,5kw more than 50% off that could be useful for the tests its costing 1000 reais... i want to set a system to make it start electrically and it could be good to get the injector system going!

who wants to help?

i´m going to buy it paying in 10 times of 30 dollars or so on my credit card ha

hope you enjoy the channel

if you do there is some things you can do to help improve the reaching of it

leave a comment, subscribe, thumbs up, share with your social networks or donate...

also if you want to make a video to place on my channel i´m open for it too!

the beauty of the youtube is that the more people watch the videos one day its going to become monetized so is like contributing with the cause by just watching few adds



https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr_rHcV6G5klaLgfh9q4qfA


 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 05, 2018, 10:00:53 am
i will put some effort in there... :)
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 07, 2018, 05:05:22 am
Thanks a lot Steve for this and all your efforts, you are the man!!! 

i´m going to get this engine generator combo and try to make circuit to make the generator part to do a simple electric starterof course i will only be able to do it when i can put my hands on it and try... i´m planning to try do it this weekend.. because the off price may change...



this generator is bigger but the guy did a nice job with this low pressure regulator...

i think using a regulator would be dangerous with hho ... however if pure hydrogen is used it can be safe





 







Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2018, 01:25:18 am
somehow someone tried to invade the forum steve ... i deleted all the span posts

the username was shaylaboynk or so

your the boss, your the boss!
Well done. Did you remove the account as well?

And be carefull with the gas installations...
I have blown up some equipment in the past..
HHO is dangerous
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2018, 03:00:02 am
regarding the generator since the forum is under attack we seems to be in the right direction..
so i´m going to buy it tomorow morning..

i will use kitchen gas to test the injector circuit as soon as i can get an injector in hands...

i will be very careful bro..

i´m even thinking about using aluminum to generate pure hydrogen for the first tests..

 the timing of the injector will have some good impact on safety since there may be or not a waste spark on this engines but as the injector will only open for a fraction of a second during the intake cycle, theres not going to be hydrogen left around or other gases... when there is no vacuum sucking the gas...

my plant is to map where exactly the vacuum start and start the injector right there

right after the injector stop the air injector open to allow the air or exhaust gases to get into the engine...

this timing is what i believe make the things safer for stanley system ... even with hho

but now i know is easier to get on with natural gas than we can try maybe acetilene or hydrogen and see the effects of it

when the system will be up and running will be possible to see the effects of the electron extraction circuit i´m planing to build...



Title: High speed PID
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 09, 2018, 11:08:46 am
the gms injector program i created is very useful as i described it as a loop that can stabilize one parameter like injector time based on other factors like the defined rpm and sensors information

what i want to point is that this is the basis for many applications...

one could use it for achieving a water heater with constant temperature water output by control of ac power

but the basis is to adjust the parameters fast enough to have an fast response, and exploit the advantage of saving the values so the thing can learn as it goes ..

so next time its on it knows how long much it takes and get a more certain shot

a pid is a proportional integral derivative controler

the idea is to combine different ways to get the stability, one using an integral and other using a derivative

a derivative tells us the rate of change of a signal (realtime)

the integral can analyse how much of change happen for a specific time

for example this can be used to regulate the temperature of a water for cooking beer

when the water is cold and you set the temperature say 60C the heater will know that there is a big difference in temperature so it will send maximum power

however the system will  calculate at the same time how much is increasing the temperature over time and with this it can determine how much time is missing to achieve the desired temperature..

for example if the system is approaching the desired temperature it will start to reduce the power applied to slowly arrive at the specific temperature and not pass above it.

real life has capacitances and inductances and time and other behaviors that will help stabilize the output..

t=491s



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 11, 2018, 10:29:44 am
for the rpm sensor i´m planing to use a disk having  at  least 30  holes

than one infra red sensor will detect the light passing thru this holes as the disk turns... so the precision will be 2 rpm

at this same disk there may be another hole and respective sensor for the injector timing...

there is also one signal that the engine may have that can be useful that is the signal for the spark plug

the spark will be happening just after the injection signal.



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 11, 2018, 22:51:58 pm
i bought the generator.. its a gg2500... ferrari https://www.leroymerlin.com.br/gerador-a-gasolina-2-5-kva-gg2500-ferrari_88082316

paid 999 reais divided in 6 times of 166 R$

i start very easily with only one pull of the cord..

i started it some times and now i´m going to study the electrical connections it have..

it outputs 120v or 240v 62hz with no load at 3600 rpm

it seems the rpm is only controlled by the accelerator having only two positions one for start and one for run

i´m thinking that perhaps if i take the hz reading can be just enough for the circuit to calculate the rpm

since it should works at 3600 giving 60hz this mean that every second it turn 60 times..  and have 1800 injections cycles per minute..

the problem is that it would give a precision of ugly 60 hz so it may not reach stability very well

If you guys want to give me a hand for paying it or to buy the other stuff i will need like injectors, leds etc please this is
 the time..

i was thinking to use a pressure sensor to trigger the injection instead of another sensor on the rpm disk ... when it feels the vacuum open the injector for the determined time... this should simplify everything because as the motor shaft will have two turns for each injection.

there may be another disk on the motor turning a half rpm (to command the valves) but is inside the case

so i guess the pressure would be the less invasive and simpler approach...  if it work..




Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 11, 2018, 23:37:14 pm

found this http://scottsnowden.co.uk/electronic-fuel-injection-success/

https://bitbucket.org/SSnowden/project-arduino-ecu/src/a7603efe1300406fd135d35247052a5e83cafb05/ECU.ino?at=master&fileviewer=file-view-default
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 22, 2018, 13:35:36 pm
I have studied the generator some more and found that the rpm seems to be adjusted mechanically thru a centrifugal mechanism, basically there is an accelerator that has a lever controlling the acceleration to maintain the rpm stable if loaded

this is a very smart system!

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2018, 23:32:12 pm
how is it going, seb?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 04, 2018, 19:47:10 pm
Hello Sebosfato.
Search for SPEEDUINO. It is a free open- sourced ECU based on arduino mega 2560.
It is fully customizable and the code are commented.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2018, 18:35:44 pm
After almost two years fighting against a pancreatic cancer, my dad now is dead (8/8/48 -  10/10/18) . Our health plan is extremely expensive for our reality and however this last time he got into the hospital by his own foots and in my opinion they made a succession of mistakes regarding his treatment, in one week they basically gave morphine constantly increasing instead of solving the pain motivation .. thru a pump and on the day before the last day he was still talking  and eating but on that night the pains had to receive a greater dose of morphine but on the limit was not working so the sedated him so receiveing so much pain killers he in my opinion was led to a respiratory breakdown.. and they didnt gave him a way to breath.. i felt totally impotent and the hospital didnt even made an autopsy to report any errors in the treatment nor the exact reason of dead. the only thing on the obit report was pancreatic cancer metastatic.. but his lungs clearly failed and was almost certainly infected.

i feel terrible about this because first however my dad was in pain and was going to die soon or later he wanted a lot to live and we was hopping that they could find something wrong if the just tried to operate him again.. and secondly because me my brothers and uncles and unties could have the same condition and similar evolution in a near future and without an autopsy we actually dont know exactly how the disease progressed to the end;

my feeling is that my health care plan did an eutanasia to my dad with the excuse of relief of his pain but with the clear intention to save money!..

in one week he died, really seems like he was being poisoned since the first day.

hope you all dont have to pass thru this.

now he is under the earth and there is nothing i can do apparently..

(regarding the progress witth the hydrogen is slow because the lack of money and time unfortunately
my brother came down to sao paulo and is helping me to organize my lab ... i hope i can do something when the motivation come back.. . at least from now will be a little bit more organized..
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2018, 19:01:46 pm
I am so sorry to hear all this, Fabio...
My condoleance to you and your family with the death of your father.
Its true that healthcare can be very crude.
The form of cancer your dad had is a very nasty one.
I lost a friend within 3 months after diagnose.
You cannot cure from it as far as know it.
Take yr time....Hydrogen can wait.
When you want to get back into it, send me a PM.......

love and strength
Steve
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2018, 19:30:00 pm
Thanks for the words my fried, he also had discovery it very lately thanks to the health care .. they took more than 3 months to detect it they only did diagnosis when he was already yellow from the eyes to skin..

I will be always keep up with the hydrogen research but probably in next times i will need to take all i can to do some money and get out of this situation of selling the lunch to pay the dinner.

i have this project of heat recycle that i will focus on to try achieving this goal of having the possibility to return working on hydrogen full time or at least part time

thanks for the force and good feelings bro

its being 10 years we are together into this, and life is sometimes a bad bitch and we need to be hard like steel to reflect all the shit coming on our direction.

within one month i will be alone here in my house again and perhaps i find  the mood i use to have some ]years ago to finally terminate this project..

Best Regards bro  =)

hope to be up back soon
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2018, 23:14:27 pm
Hello sebosfato, sorry to hear about your dad. Life does it's own things sometimes and doesn't ask anyone. Healthcare is a big status quo when you get grabbed in it's gears you're in trouble.

I don't deal with energy stuff anymore , did some research about batteries 3 years ago but I didn't build anything, the only valuable thing I've discovered spending time reading the fringe theories is the convergent force field I talked to you about, I should make an attempt to work out some formulas but I've already forgotten a lot of stuff i was taught in school, I also wasn't taught tensor theory, it's the only thing they left out to justify not giving full physicist rights for my degree.

Oh I also taught myself to model electric motors and do FEMM simulations in my old laptop 2 years ago, the theory I told you about the guy named looper or something is very valid, physicists make excuses to keep the maxwell equations  equations general while these are just special cases of a bigger theory, search for serpent coil motor, this motor has no closed coils but works like closed coil motors, the way it works is with the spatial relative motion of the magnetic field which exert a lorentz force on the charge carrier of the coil, if you take the relative motion of the B field lines absolute like faraday the theory works lijke the experiment, you can find it in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faraday_paradox which is not the correct explanation, these are simple thought experiments of mine I don't have any mathematical proof theorem.

Someone could make the rotating disc experiment on his own but there's some delicate work involved, I have found a faraday disc motor that matches my own simple solution for the faraday paradox and it works, some electrical engineer did a thesis on it and no reviewer bothered to mention that this motor contradicts maxwell theory, it just uses spokes instead of a solid disc, the reason it works is too simple actually, feynman's solution is bogus to me.


Is the time spent with these free energy theories worth the time? Now that I am older it sounds like  a waste of time, energy and money. Life doesn't wait for us to dream  , the guys that have a pension and a lot of free time are the ones suitable to do free energy research in their backyards.

And finally working with magnetic fields is impossible, I did so many simulations including a motor similar to meyer's motor with the toroid coil and the fringe B fields *  everything up, I managed to model this motor that output  10 Nm or something only suitable for bicycles, at that time I was modelling a big mean 1000 Nm plus motor to go with my big novel battery which I never built but I forgot that the money and knowledge to make the power modules for this motor were out of my league.

I have the files somewhere, they are ansoft maxwell files but I guess they might work in other programs if someone is interested n buildng something drop  me a pm.

And that's all, took 1 hour to write this, farewell sebosfato, life is always faster. I will always wonder how much of a waste of time it was.



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2018, 12:17:17 pm
Hey Geon Thanks for the kind words... i´m finding that this health care plans are evil and are doing this to many families.. wish i could study medicine to discover how to stop this but for today is not possible for me!

I´m not over yet although i may sound different, i still have the thought that we are going to get there with meyer or horvath technology someday soon..

Sometimes i also have the kind of thought you talk , that we lost time, however after all for me that was simply a not so studied brazilian, musician and had nothing special besides my hungry for learning music, this research made me study physics, chemisty, electronics among many other subjects so it automatically prepared me for life, giving me many knowledge that i will certainly use soon in a job or something.. today all my friends ask me to fix something here or there for example..

I think stan was ahead with the tech of his time and we are also a little bit in advance of ours too, today many technologies are becoming available, like arduino that makes our lives easier with measuring and controling our energy devices.. if there is somewhere we can develop it will be where we know how to measure  whatever parameter and have the equip to do it...

thank you for the time you spend on this, even if it was not a good return of money it certainly made you burn your brain with health thoughts and good will!   

Best Regards my friend
ps
Hope your country is in a better situation today.. mine is collapsing soon =D
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2018, 13:21:16 pm
Thought of the day

On parallel wires runing current on oposite directions have a repusive force between each other! The module of the force is 1 whatever is the current diferent magnintude...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2018, 14:16:55 pm
and a capacitor working as well
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 11, 2018, 14:18:12 pm
maybe the electrodes must each be part of a closed circuit and not the load at the end?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 20, 2018, 00:43:48 am
Hello how are things going?  Maybe search for william j. hoopers work. I haven't worked out the formulas to get the maxwell formulas from my hypothesis because I get 1/r instead of 1/r^2 in the formulas but many things don't make sense to me like rotational reference frames, if you rotate a point on a disk to the speed of light then what is the speed on a point further the axis? Without relativity it should be higher than the speed of light. The contraction of the disk is also a paradox with no solution to today https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrenfest_paradox a guy named podletov or something used rotating magnets and coils to make a long acting force field but he was kicked from the russian institute after he claimed they were gravitational waves which I think they maybe weren't. Everything I say is in the limits of fringe science but physicists are really basing themselves on a flimsy structure there are holes that no ones care to fill but they still have spend 50 years of humankind's work based on half assed theories, they were just contempt with   bashing the old theories of 1900.

Accelerating charged particles are also not touched by anyone there are no physics for them.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2018, 23:27:48 pm
maybe the electrodes must each be part of a closed circuit and not the load at the end?

i had this kind of feeling that the electrons in transit are the only ones that can be involved in any kind of manipulation by magnetic field... i´m thinking if we could set the magnetic circuit in such a way to manipulate the electrons in the circuit other than using electric field of a changing magnetic field...

i was considering if it could be possible to make the electrons interact at some point  of the coils with other field and perhaps create a potential difference that is not proportional to the power input ...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2018, 18:31:49 pm
My impression is that somehow the electrons when standing still in metals they wont behave magnetically perhaps because the metal hold them in their latice ... but applying a electric field would liberate them from the latice of the metal..

if there is anything right about this it would mean that we could manipulate the electrons with magnetic fields if the electrons were already in movement




 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 28, 2018, 12:20:05 pm
from thomson effect we can conclude that if we are using coils to pulse dc the start of the coil (inner part) should be the positive.. since there will be hotter than the outer windings it will promote self cooling when energy is used and also some extra energy from the heat itself ... specially for very long coils

the effect may be few mv or lower difference but there is

the hotter side of a wire will be more positive than the cold part

if this energy is discharged it causes the wire to absorb heat from the hot part transforming directly to electricity..
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2018, 00:36:57 am
from thomson effect we can conclude that if we are using coils to pulse dc the start of the coil (inner part) should be the positive.. since there will be hotter than the outer windings it will promote self cooling when energy is used and also some extra energy from the heat itself ... specially for very long coils

the effect may be few mv or lower difference but there is

the hotter side of a wire will be more positive than the cold part

if this energy is discharged it causes the wire to absorb heat from the hot part transforming directly to electricity..

wow...
It is interesting. But i cannot see how this adds to the Herman cell .
Or are you with this on another path?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2018, 04:48:24 am
Oh no bro just i mind note... to remember the effect
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2018, 05:52:52 am
i made a drawing of what i think could maybe work...

the red and brown are anodes (+) and the black are cathodes or container..  the blue is insulation

this is the up view so the anodes are on the lateral and on the bottom of the cell

the cathodes are connected thru two chokes to the negative of the dc source

the cathodes also receive AC making resonance at the chokes

the main idea and im not sure is going to happen is to generate hydrogen but kind of try to neutralize the potential it force on the electrode and that consume power to make electrolysis..

if the electrolysis can be performed at lower voltage it efficiency can go over 100%

of course the resonance will kind of impart some energy to the dc side working like a boost condition.. but the main goal would be to verify if manipulating the cathodes potential in this manner would be possible to nullify the hydrogen effect on the electrode.. or perhaps help the hydrogen get ejected...

this cell construction also would be easy to get pure oxygen and hydrogen... all it need is to separate the cavities with a thin silcscreen

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 04:37:59 am
distractions aways come up when we are on the good way..
lets get back to it..

no body can stop me anymore than myself

so lets get back to the vic

what i found about the vic in this last year is the following

it should have 3 coils to adjust the impedance of the pulse and get most of it to the water..

this mean that the input transformer must have a primary a secondary and a choke

than on the other core there is going to be two coils....

the is one system being charged in parallel that is the primary of the other core

than the secondary of the first core get out  of the game and the discharge will be only on the other coils.. thats why they are needed..

there is some diagrams here thru this pages i will take a look over it and recapitulate what is going to happen...

the main idea is to be able to apply the highest peak voltage in water in the shortest time possible..

this will allow the charge to be applied to the molecules like hell
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 12:37:57 pm

 
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Re: Electrode comparison
« Reply #48 on: December 03, 2018, 16:30:47 pm »
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Quote from: sebosfato on December 03, 2018, 09:58:18 am
I´m thinking about doing the following experiment

with some cells in series like this for apply 12v directly

every cell in serie will multiply the amperage in terms of hydrogen production so for 10 cells in series using 40 amps would be like 400 amps of hydrogen produced..

Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode - Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode - Anode ...

I´m not sure whats going to happen on the middle electrode.. the problem is that the solutions must not be in contact with each other,..

i think about using multiple isolated cells but of course will do only a couple to see whats going on...

next test will be to get the hydrogen bubbles get on the anode! .. the idea is that it would further reduce the potential... perhaps an air pump could be used to recirculate the gas on the anode perhaps on the opposite side where the reaction is going

i´m starting to think that the electron extraction grid was actually the anode in meyer cell so the hydrogen would have to pass thru it!

I imagine a 3 plate cell pretty much like the one in the video but with the anode on the up side for the bubbles of hydrogen reach it "! or passing thru a ss screen connected to the anode.

I think meyer said platinum could not be used `` it would breakdown under the conditions  / New Zealand `` perhaps because it would ignite the hydrogen with the oxygen at the anode... 

i dont know much about the cold fusing process but i guess the basic idea would be to get the hydrogen cheap and mess around with it with radiation and voltage to stimulate the energy to get out like all the inventors said.. to get a decent magnetic field on the cell maybe would be better to wind a coil around the cell itself or use permanent magnets

talking about magnetic fields how its going with the Horvath cell Steve?

i was thinking why the hell Meyer used a resistor in that patent and he talks about reaching different potential levels etc ..i wonder what was that about 

i think we should do the following experiment too urgently

have a 10Kohm high power resistor like 40w and get an isolated low voltage source too

connect the dc low voltage across the cell and the the 10kohm resistor between the cathode and ground

than pulse the anode with the vic to get 600 volts at it and see what happen with the current on the dc accordingly with the pulsing

i guess this was what he was trying to protect



1,23v              0v          +400mv           -829mv
Anode HCl Cathode - Anode NaOH Cathode
A            1,23v       B             1,23v          C
 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 12:55:59 pm
lets back to the subject

hydrogen and metal in water... they react ... hydrogen lose electrons and get absorbed on the surface of the metal giving to it a potential in reference to the solution of -1.23 v

when we get electrolysis happen this capacitive charge ruin the efficiency... because it requires 1,23 joules for each coulomb you try to transfer between the electrodes...

in my stupid opinion, if we really want to get cheap hydrogen we need to find a way to cancel this 1,23 volts difference while maintaining the electrolysis happening

applying 1,23 volts would result in 100% efficient electrolysis but i wont proceed because the capacitance is charged..

well in my opinion we just need to charge the anode with the same negative voltage somehow to be able to get a lower voltage between the capacitor plates and thereto be able to apply current without so much voltage...

the only way i´m seeing to do it would be to make the hydrogen charge the anode by arranging the anode over the cathode and so the bubbles are forced to pass thru it...

the anode could be platinum but if it were platinum hydrogen would combuste with the oxygen there being also generated making it glow red hot like the catalytic converter of your car.. so stan said that platinum could not be used as it would "breakdown under the conditions required for the operation of the fuel cell" that was something that have away puzzled me... how platinum would break down.. it does not, it makes hydrogen and oxygen reform! well i bet stailess steel wont!

i´m not sure if the electolyte must be acid or base but one of them should do something...

today i plan to do some experiments using aluminum to generate hydrogen into a hydrocloric solution and having one electrode over it to see the potential in reference to a paladium electrode that i have..

the main idea is to simple cancel the voltage that appear between anode and cathode..

the second goal is a manner to generate extremely low voltages at huge amps

i plan doing it with some sort of stepdown colapsing pulse transformer... the idea is to generate milivolts on the secondary and allow the collapse to get this milivolts into the volts range... a collapsing transformer will elevate the voltage until the current has a way to go and make thru the circuit..

other ways i see is witha faraday disk, or even a modified dc motor with permanent magnets and brush running at very low speed..

perhaps we could use gallium as a contact metal since its liquid at low temps...

a third way to generate this low voltage at high amps is to build a magnetohydrodynamic generator using gallium... so it can transform mechanical energy directly to low voltage at very high efficiency! the problem is that 20ml cost 100 dollars here and just to pump it would require some more amount...

to make a magneto hydrodynamic generator is not hard all you need is to force the galium into a magnetic channel having electrodes to capture the amps... the voltage is  proportional to the speed, lenght of the magnetic field / electrodes and magnetic field intensity...

the major problem is to design the system to have a nice flow of the galium at enough speed...

it can even convert electricity into a lower voltage electricity depending on the arrangement



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 13:10:46 pm
one idea is to make the anode much bigger than the cathode or vice versa to see the differences...

i guess with a bigger anode it would be easier for it to get hit by the hydrogen and it stay there adsorbed without perturbing the electrolysis and causing problems of recombination...

perhaps would be interesting a thermal camera to see what goes into water.. anyone have one?

the document in attachment tells about using 100khz ac 6v to generate hydrogen and oxygen on both electrodes... check this out
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 15:36:45 pm
https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/aa/df/10/473b10bf48d3e1/US4303845.pdf

i think is a good time spend reading this patent...

it uses a manner to apply voltage as a potential energy in a manner where its not "consumed" check it out!
Title: Key Concepts
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2018, 15:21:11 pm
Step Down Collapsing Field Transformer

The main discovery i made in this world of science is the power of collapsing field.. when we charge a coil and open a switch the power will be dissipated all at one depending only on the load impedance to tell how long will be the discharge

a transformer can transform the impedance of a load to a source and is totally conservative

the collapsing or opening the switch is where the magic happen... when we close the switch the primary coils are going to get charged with current linearly with time assuming dc source when the current is interrupted it wants to keep going in the same direction so the voltage of the transformer is reversed to force the current to go

if there is a resistance the voltage developed will be dependent on the product of the current in the winding relative to the primary and the resistance. V=(R*I)

the power dissipated is what changes when you have W= R*I ^2=(R* I)*I or W = V * I so it tells that the more amps you put in a resistor more power you applied to it

when it comes to the water i believe we should start thinking smart

water has a low resistance when it is ionized with some base or acid.. what really is the problem is to generate enough low voltage high current and make it thru the water

If my theory is right about the fuel cell word in meyer concept my thoughts are that he may have found a way to really transform the water into a short circuit instead of literally a capacitor that starts leaking current over 1.23v
a short circuit can conduct currents at milivolts range

the units of voltage is Joules/ Coulomb meaning how much work done per unity of charge you made pass thru the load. the lower the voltage the lower is the energy to pass some current

the only fucking that prevents us from having enormous current at 1.23 volts applied is that the capacitance will subtract from this applied voltage so the effective applied voltage across the water is zero!

all the voltage is in a region of nano scale near the electrode

effectively there is 1.23 but it wont allow current to flow because the ions cannot win the barrier of capacitance created by the presence of the hydrogen at the negative electrode.. the hydrogen makes the electrode be more negative than the other electrode since it stay in the surface of the electrode in a liquid to gas ionized state leaving its electron available for the metal increasing its negative potential but also the hydrogen bubble becoming bigger will take the electron from the plate and get off as a neutral bubble ... haha if we let it

big question we were discussing earlier if we get two metals in water with different sizes and same material submerged totally in water what will be the voltage between them? i think we should start asking those questions



 





Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2018, 20:03:06 pm
I just thought of another thing...

wouldnt it be possible to use a resistor and voltage source to stabilize the voltage of a point in a circuit??

For example we create two branches and put similar resistors for example at leas two resistors in series

in the middle of the two resistor points of the two branches will have the same voltage dont they?

could it be possible that we can simply use some voltage and current just to zero up the potential of the electrodes than apply pulsed ultra low voltage?

Title: Helo?
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2018, 22:19:01 pm
Its pretty boring to talk alone... does anyone understood anything about what i say?

I only see the view counts increase and nobody answer...

well

Here comes another.. regular electrolysis theoretically major limitation in current is not the distance between the electrodes..

but stan has the following figures... tube cells are better than plate and the longer the tubes are the greater the efficiency from what i see in his graphs

why would this be

well if the space is short the hydrogen have the chance to touch the anode and the longer it is more it can interact...

if the cell is placed horizontaly than being the outside tube the anode the hydrogen will be flowing over it all the way

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 07, 2018, 23:17:32 pm
In attachment in the previous post you see the idea of using resistors to try to manipulate the potentials.. the idea would be to use a second circuit and perhaps be able to rise the potential of the cathodes to zero volts by external circuit
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2018, 09:29:12 am
i reply.....but i must say that i lost you here in this topic.....
Sorry. But thats just me. Plse go on if you have the feeling to be in the right direction.

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2018, 11:26:00 am
i reply.....but i must say that i lost you here in this topic.....
Sorry. But thats just me. Plse go on if you have the feeling to be in the right direction.

thanks for the reply Steve

I´m trying to use the principle behind the fuel cell

at the course i took about hydrogen fuel cell at the Institute of energy and Nuclear Research here at the university of são paulo,  the very first thing we learn is that when the hydrogen gas get in contact with the triple reaction phase comprising electrolyte and catalyser and electrode it will readily ionize liberating electrons on the electrode and transform into hydrogen positive ion that goes thru the electrolyte until it reach the oxygen to form water, recapturing the electron that made its way outside on the load circuit..

basically what i´m saying is that when we generate hydrogen by electrolysis is like charging a full capacitive battery since its a capacitor that leaks when the voltage pass above a threshold 1.23v this 1.23v dont come from the thermodynamics or other exotic explanation.. this voltage come from the fact that the negative electrode get electrostatic charged with the hydrogen since it will remain in the triple reaction phase until it has enough size to exit as a neutral bubble bringing away its electron. So the water capacitor is actually like a mini battery...  the capacitor will however be a capacitance relative to the water solution itself.. so the electrodes has a electrochemical capacitance relative to the solution this is the potential.. My theory would be that if the hydrogen is the responsible for the negative charge that creates this potential difference.. if we could force the hydrogen to touch also the anode.. it would neutralize the anode potential in relation to the other bringing it to a negative potential relative to the solution too, thereto the potential difference between them could be radically reduced...

water is already broken... there is free ions .. specially if we have salts or base or acid diluted in it.. so we dont really need to break any bonds.... the problem is to split the ions into useful components and bring outside ..   

I believe what i just said explain why meyer called it a water fuel cell , a water capacitor , and why he says that water has a electrical force that holds it


I could be totally wrong of course.. that why i´m trying to discuss about it , even if its about a so much specific knowledge....
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2018, 12:05:29 pm
In attachment in the previous post you see the idea of using resistors to try to manipulate the potentials.. the idea would be to use a second circuit and perhaps be able to rise the potential of the cathodes to zero volts by external circuit

Right, you need a second circuit.  But it raises the frequency, not the potential.  The way it was explained at the chemistrystack forum is shattering the water molecule is the same as a soprano shattering a wine glass with her wavering voice.  Part of her sound is resonant, causing the glass to vibrate. Then the dissonant part of her sound shatters the vibration.

What Stan "said" was his VIC's sensor winding is quite a bit larger than needed for that purpose.  So use it as an alternate primary, with a higher frequency, due to its slightly smaller size.  The second, higher frequency, circuit is what he shows as the electron extraction circuit, giving the overall cycle a wavering frequency, because it switches to the smaller primary winding, then back.

PS:  If you want people to read your messages, then keep it short and simple.
Title: suitable electrolytes for electrolysis
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2018, 13:41:56 pm
Hey yes sometimes i take the time to put to much detail.. but is in the hope someone help me find if i´m wrong... =) thanks for the input


https://mundoeducacao.bol.uol.com.br/quimica/eletrolise-agua.htm

in this website there is a table to identify the priority of discharge of anions and cations...

from it we can select the best possible electrolytes to use

using an acid or base will make the water ph change while using a salt will mantain the ph in the neutral region...

exx

sodium sulfate

sodium nitrate

calcium nitrate

potassium nitrate  etc
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 16:40:29 pm
I´m preparing a set up for testing

i have some 304 stainless steel electrodes coated with nickel and than with palladium over it ... and some regular 304 material electrodes too for testing

tomorow i´m going to buy potassium nitrate to test as electrolyte also sodium sulfate and compare between them

i dont want to use a hard base or acid with those electrodes since i did the electrochemical deposition myself and i´m not sure if its good enough to not peel off (i only made the palladium bath) the nickel coating was done by industry

the discs are circles cut by laser with a copper connector soldered with silver and than coat with nickel and than palladium to be precise.. 

i´m going to have a pure hydrogen being generated at a bottle with some  HCl and alluminum and will direct the tubing to the electrodes to test what happen when it reach one or the other electrode... bubbling the gas

i can test with copper too and pure palladium as i have an electrode for it...





Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 10, 2018, 21:57:38 pm
Today i´m testing some ideas

i generated some hydrogen on a plastic bottle such that i can press it and release some gas. the gas is not very pure since there was air inside the empty part of the bottle... the production is not very high too because i have aluminum and a diluted solution of HCl however the rate of production could be increased by adding acid. the problem is that it becomes pretty hot and may damage the plastic bottle and leak the acid and make a very bad accident.

i would like to have a kind of stainless steel pressure pan to modify it as a hydrogen generator... i think is the best idea i ever had kkkk


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 10, 2018, 23:12:07 pm
I think the ss pressure pan is a very good idea.  I have a couple of pressure cookers - one for a gas dynamic laser, the other for some fusion spark tests.  Both are alumnium, so I've been holding off on the latter.  Your idea about the pressure pan may be the suggestion I need (for my own project).  Thanks for pointing out the alternative.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2018, 08:09:37 am
Good to know! welcome my friend, i was thinking about it because of it can handle temperature and hold the gas at same time...  being it made of inox it can also be the anode or its connection..

yesterday i did some few experiments with my palladium electrode.. its very small but i could get some conclusions it costed more than 200 dollars only this 6 gram piece

i wish i could have two of it or one of pure platinum too but is even more expensive...

the palladium develops a negative voltage as i was expecting when bubbling hydrogen on water.. if the palladium is not totally immersed it don´t get full charged,, that may be because it may be also in contact with oxygen of air and so probably it was shorting the fuel cell ability of the electrode... it was measured in reference to a 304 electrode..

when it was full immerse the voltage arrived at -122mv the hydrogen was being bubbled on the water so i guess this was only due to the dissolved hydrogen

doing more tests today

it remind me something about the need of a fuel cell to use pure hydrogen ... if its not pure first it can contaminate or dope the catalyst and second if has oxygen it can react explosively

the leads of the multimeter must not touch water or the measures change...

i also measured if there is current between the electrodes.. some 2 ma between them

and i wonder what is it? 
Title: Fuel cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2018, 09:47:41 am
I was wondering since a long time i it would not be possible to use the electrons generated in a chemical reaction in some better manner since the low voltage imply a low power ability...

capacitors are a possible manner to get it i guess

to be able to discharge this electrons at a higher voltage i guess what is needed is to have two fuel cells on opposite side of a capacitor ir perhaps a coil and simply use the power of  the voltage across it to recover the electrons at a high power condition somehow and feedback in the circuit to make it self oscillating

the big question is how to do it

but i believe stan was talking about this in the new zealand video

imagine a capacitor or a coil that has a source of electrons on the negative side and sync for them on the positive side

perhaps we need to apply dc + ac and will obtain another ac to feedback in the input

meyer use high resistance wire for a reason.. i was thinking about it and the only reason i found is that it may be used somehow in parallel with some dc input so it needs the resistance in order to reject the dc and allow ac resistance

list=PL57dae3IfH8RRy0SHi7BIr8sdosfEMxia
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2018, 18:33:45 pm
this video exemplify what i was talking recently..

when we submerge a metal its free electrons will be attracted to the water molecules because they are free to move and this makes the electrode positive in some sense

the higher is the atraction of the metal to its electrons the lower will be the potential

both electrodes therefore have some sort of negative electric field on the surface.... to revert this electric field electrons must be taken off from the electrode making it now positive.. so in an electrolysis when we add charge o it the negative electrode will be more negative than the positive electrode in relation to the water solution

i´m planing on using potassium nitrate

my idea is that it will form a basic electrolyte near the positive electrode and acid near the negative electrode due to the proximity of the respective opposite ions. i even thought about adding some potassium to bring it to elevate the ph or acid to lower the ph...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2018, 11:31:59 am
it apear to me that in the last pdf document about the electrochemical potential of different materials it became very evident why the 304 material may be the best for the application...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2018, 17:12:15 pm
i was doing a research on possible electrolytes i came to the conclusion that the electrolytes that would more strongly affect water would be those that have most solubility and higher charge of the ions

the ´potential candidates are : (solubility NTP and molar mass)

aluminum +3 chlorate  -3  not found solubility  277g/mol

barium +2 chlorate -3 27g /100ml 304g/mol

sodium + chlorate -3 100g/100ml 106g/mol

sodium hydroxide 111g/100ml  39g/mol

sodium sulfate 14g/100ml 142g/mol

potassium sulfate 12g/100ml   174g/ mol

potassium + chlorate -3  8g/100ml  122g/mol

potassium+  nitrate  -2   24g/100ml 101 g/ mol the solubility at 100C is 243g/100ml increase 10x

potassium hydroxide 121g/100ml  56g /mol

question for you what is the strongest electrolyte ?

the most stable?

the one with lower energy to generate free electrons?

here i have the solubility of each miss the comparison between the molar mass to see which one will actually be in contact with most water molecules..


i found somewhere a conductivity vc concentration table here in attachment look for your self if you can interpret tables




Title: Ionic Resonance
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2018, 20:39:13 pm
the potassium nitrate i ordered just arrived...

i was thinking about the ionic resonance that we need to achieve and i guess is not that hard to detect it

i think we need to determine the impedance of the cell for ac signal (without coil) in function of the frequency.. and analyse the real and reactive parts of the current by the use of an oscilloscope... for that we need a signal that constantly vary in voltage like a triangle wave and analise the response of the current ..

there may be an ac frequency were for a certain concentration of ions the current will be reduced because of the resonance at the ions

this may be very sharp

so all that is needed is to determine the voltage concentration and frequency relationship

the higher is the concentration the closer the ions will be to each other and so the frequency in my view should be higher

ions in solution are equidistant in equilibrium but when we start pulsing it the ions get to move in the direction of the field applied to them since they have opposite charges and so as this equilibrium form an elastic bound they can resonate... there will be some loss due to the water resistance to their movement however.. heat..

the question than is what is the maximum displacement an ion  can have for a certain voltage?

the higher is the concentration of ions the higher will be the attraction for each other so harder will be to take them apart (higher frequency too)

so the ions have a minimum distance they can be from each other and this is when they are solid .. and there is a maximum distance they can be from each other when they are dilute

during this resonance they will be moving back and forth in opposite directions... an ion with higher mass will have a lower frequency and one with a low mass should have a higher frequency...

for example having potassium hydroxide in solution leaves us with mostly two ions frequency possible OH- having a mass of 17 and K+ with a mass of 39

this may not be much close to each other so there should be two distinct frequencies!

if the atoms have different mass size they will have different frequency this tells us that the H+ ions will have much higher speed and will effectively walk more distance.. in reality the H+ ions are not free in solution either they readily transform into H3O+ ions so the mass is 19g/mol close to the 17g/mol from OH-

the potassium and the nitrate ion are much heavier but they will have each one their movements too

so if we have potassium and the ph environment is neutral to more acid we do have ions of close mass and charge to oscillate you see the danger in here?

the nitrate ion is huge and weights 62g/mol and have twice the charge

the potassium ion have 39 mass

this will be some slower 





 






 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2018, 21:24:38 pm
http://iosrjen.org/Papers/vol3_issue8%20(part-2)/I03825259.pdf

read this
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2018, 04:49:59 am
Ive yet to read the document but thanks for sharing....ya ever took apart a transistor like a 2n3055 and used it as like a solar cell ?
Something to think about as ions relax from resonace and emit energy and being able to detect it
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2018, 14:44:05 pm
its a very interesting document talking about ac electrolysis

there is some graphs of the voltage in function of the current and at a certain current the voltage drops or peaks ...

it also claims that at higher current loads the phase angle get closer to 90


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2018, 15:50:05 pm
i think i found how to create a low voltage dc without diodes.. its based on pulsing a secondary (thick wire) with 3 different coils with a kind of 3 phase configuration.. 120 degree.. but where the coils are left to colapse during pulse off  this way there is aways going to be dc flow.. theoretically

i think high saturation like soft iron would be better...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2018, 17:25:00 pm
i think that on meyer double coils there may be some things to think about... first of all is that a diode should be on the other side of the secondary too to block the interaction of the secondary with the negative choke.. the secondary will attract the electrons on that coil if a diode is not there so will not let it perform the best possible...

other way i see it is having two diodes also but not inline with the circuit but in such a manner that there is no diode in series during pulse on and when the pulse is off the energy accumulated in the input transformer and the coils are discharged in parallel on water forming a double frequency pulse...

the image will be in attachment 

things are interesting when the frequency is such that it has no time for the coils to discharge but one thing is interesting the voltage will should be higher than the input and is limited by cell resistance

this kind of system also will allow a dc bias while superimposing the dc over it...

i believe the bias is very important part of the thing... because of two reasons..

first it will set up a environment  of ions on the cell and second this current will interact with the pulsed current perhaps giving more effect than we imagine..

it can reset or even reverse the pole of the magnet depending on the amount

Title: Mystery of the shorted turns
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2018, 20:43:43 pm
I think the wiper arm in meyer drawing is something interesting too

the higher is the inductance of the shorted segment the longer will be the collapse of the fields..

when a coil is shorted into itself during pulse on it become like a power bank since will absorb energy however after the power is turned off it has its own discharge time so will kind of control the time it will discharge in the circuit

there is going to be current in the coil before receiving the next pulse too

 

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 01:02:36 am
many thoughts today...

i guess now is time to work ...

things i believe are priorities are:

low voltage dc generator...low impedance (3x 50% duty cycle pulses spaced 120 degrees into 3 separated primaries having a secondary portion on every transformer connected in series)

frequency doubling charging choke system allowing the dc to be applied superimposed

Oh boy

i think i found something interesting here

meyer used resistive chokes claiming that the electric fields could make thru somehow if or while current is being restricted to a minimum

well

i just thought of something

if we are applying say 200vdc on the system to be fair lets say theres is 1 amps flowing and that its being dissipated among the water cell and the coils getting very hot.. at this very limit when superimposing a electromagnetic pulse on the coils if their limit of current is already achieved than no further current could pass but the electric field would increase
Title: The 3 phase DC generator
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 10:52:15 am
i found how generate dc from 3 phase without diodes... it may need winding reset for a time but will work for a while

its 3 signals having 60% duty cycle distant 120degrees from each other like i explained before

the transformers are 3x 10:1  the load is a 1 ohm resistor
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Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2018, 08:39:00 am
for the 3 phase signal i think is best to use an arduino

i imagine the following program

a counter that goes from 0 to 359 and return to zero where at 0, 120 and 240 the pulses a,b,c starts respectively and they can have a duration that goes from 0 up to maybe 180 pulses each...

the frequency can be controlled by the timing between each count...

with the arduino yet can be done another button for gating it...

i guess will be necessary to gate it somehow to allow the cores to reset...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 18, 2018, 17:54:39 pm
i was thinking over and over again and perhaps i found something..

A car battery is also what? a big capacitor right?

but a capacitor when connected to a load will get discharged and a battery would maintain a voltage due to the chemical reactions that are happening there

when we connect a voltage source to a load its going to flow current as result of the force applied to the circuit

but a coil can be manipulated in two manners externaly or internaly and the two result in two different things

when the power is applied to a coil in one direction directly the current will still in the same direction

when the power is pulsed from other coil externaly it will have both directions going

the electric field is reduced in a circuit when current is flowing due to resistive loss so there is a voltage drop

if the choke is in parallel with the cell and we apply the power thru a dc blocking diode we form a resonant circuit where the coil is in parallel with the cell but also in series with this coil there is a capacitor (battery or voltage source) with lots of charges accumulated to generate force withing the cell

no  power consumption  can result since we are applying it backwards so no problems with that its actually recycling

the dc component in a circuit like this would become a constant after a few time and than pulsing the coil directly thru a diode or a diode bridge would result in the same current from the dc but increased electric field because of the combination of the dc and the backemf of the coil

thereto i came to the conclusion that meyer used a capacitor or the batery itself as a source of electric filed and a coil between it and the cell than applied the power as to return to the battery but doing so the whole electric field of the battery or capacitor will make it thru the circuit 

the importance of having a high capacity is to have a higher force but perhaps the resonance will require too much current

the idea is that while the dc is trying to discharge into the cell thru the chokes you also pulse the cell with a higher voltage frequency and so it will modulate the electric field from the dc to the cell amplifying the effect of the dc current already present

the dc will maintain clouds of ions of opposite charges and very rapidly depending on the solution the ions will take off all the charge of the plates and reverse its polarity this is the game to play because here the voltage to do the electrolysis become negative ... should be like a real short circuit

a cell with saturated solution behave like a small inductor so a external capacitance could resonate with it perfectly

i believe that when the charging current is the same as the current being consumed from the dc source somehow the current will apear to be zero in the chokes but there is going to be ac current.. so current going in and going back (resonance)

a coil dont want to change its current so it respond with a opposite electromotive force electric field but if this coil is in series with a power source all this emf will sum up but without ability to flow much current but the voltage will be there so as the current



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 18, 2018, 19:03:26 pm
With CEMF, the potential is at 180 degrees, but the current lags the input by 90 degrees.  Will this have any effect on what you're considering?  (Good for fusion, but not electrolysis.)
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 19, 2018, 01:55:22 am
You may be right... i was considering that the coil would possibly sum its voltage with the dc voltage and my guess was that it would kind of direct the electric field from the capacitance to the cell boosting it.



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 19, 2018, 11:27:46 am
It is possible to produce a non vectorial Scalar potential between two identical sine waves by running one of them through a battery.  For some applications 12 Volts isn't quite enough, so you can use two batteries in series.  This kind of energy can be unhealthy.
Title: Meyer Waveform
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2018, 13:54:46 pm
what do you mean with unhealthy?

Recently i understood the reason why meyer had more than one coil on the transformers... the main idea is that one of the coils input energy thru a blocking diode into the circuit but during the pulse collapse at least a second coil would be necessary to take use of the core energy...

i found yesterday that perhaps there is a second capacitor in the circuit to lead to a dc double pulse...

basically the cell is charged thru the chokes like the usual stan diagram but first imagine a capacitor right after the diode... well this capacitor will sum with the charging current of the coil to duplicate the pulse.. but there is still energy in the core so is necessary to have a coil connected after the diode and before the capacitor to let it charge to a higher voltage during the pulse and such that the coil revert the pulse when collapse summing the capacitor and all coils in series to discharge on the water so there is a step up charging

when the chokes current is stable there is no voltage across it... it would need a increase in resistance on the cell to flip the voltage or be switched into a circuit with higher resistance to discharge

this tells that to manipulate a coil we need to charge it and switch it thru a capacitor to get it to flip its polarity

i think the capacitor capacitance must be bigger than the cell

the force in a capacitors is given as half of the product between the electric field and charge... so it does not really matter if you have 1 faraday at 1 volt or 1milifaraday at 1000v  assuming they have the same electric field...

so if we have a capacitor in our circuit and it is charged each cycle to a higher voltage and than discharged perhaps incompletely on our cell with the coils in series there will be a step up voltage of increased force applied to water

is like a vector inversion generator we charge two capacitors (the cell is charged with the coils with current and voltage) the other capacitor is charged externally by the same circuit and when the field collapse all are in series..

forgot to say that the coil in series with the diode before the capacitor may allow it to resonate..
Title: anyone tried this:?
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2018, 16:21:49 pm
$ 1 5.0000000000000004e-8 9.78399845368213 35 5 50
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Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2018, 20:26:51 pm
nope. Your design is unique  :)
Title: Meyer's Waveform
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2018, 21:21:40 pm
Uniformity of the step charging pulses is a factor of the cell's time constant.  The charging capacitance must be smaller than that of the cell.  Otherwise, place a capacitor in parallel with the cell so one pulse produces only a small change in the cell's charge.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2018, 22:39:27 pm
Hey i just see it the other way... in my idea the cell must have a more violent approach with the pulses... i could be totally wrong by the way..

i was looking into the solubility of suitable electrolytes and i found that lithium nitrate can dissolve up to 234g in 100ml at 100C

i believe adding more electrolyte would make the bounds very week

i´m thinking about if we apply such high pulses if the electrolyte cant be also decomposed changing the ph of the final solution as  a prove of concept

in the case of nitrates i believe it would generate nitrogen and drive the ph of the solution up if the electrolyte can be broken too

i think we could use the ph as a eye of what is happening with the bath ... if it change than something is happening .. of course some reactions are reversible other not so time must be taken into account





Title: how to find water resonance
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2018, 16:17:02 pm
After so much thinking i was thinking about the resonance meyer talks about ...

i came up with a circuit where if the cell could reduce the voltage drop it could be easy to apply thousands of amps to it..

however how would the cell reduce this voltage..

the water cell is a good capacitor for ac of high frequency and i believe that the resonance has to do with this requirement

when the resistance of a coil resistor circuit is reduced to zero the time of discharge of the coil become infinite this is an indication that a coil can be used to create a steady current from short pulses because of its ability to reverse its polarity (aka) double its frequency to keep the current flowing in the same direction...

so i was thinking a lot and i came to the conclusion that when resonance is reached the dc resistance of the cell will drop and the current will start to increase..

i made a simulation with using a 1uf capacitoras input capacitor and 50v as input ac thru a full wave bridge rectifier... a very small inductor and very small load like in the miliohms range and it resulted in a kiloampere range currents...

the thing is that if the coil has not time to discharge it will simply keep increasing the current for every pulse it receive

the circuit kiss i imagine only a 1uf capacitor and very small coil in series with a full wave bridge rectifier having a high amperage diode from the negative to the positive side and means to short the full wave bridge sinchronized with the pulsing ... the idea is that once the current rises to a very big value it will have a path with less resistance than the extra diode that takes 0.4v  or more 

i think really meyer fooled us but he also told some true some time

to find the water resonance we must consider what is going to resonate

in new zealand meyer says that the water will have resonant frequency in the audio range

he  also said that it depends on the concentration of ions in it

in a patent he say is related to the movement  of the ions

he also claim is independent of voltage

so i took  the last two days to think about it and determine what would happen with this resonance

my idea is that when we find the resonant frequency of the ions the water cell will have a kind of ac behavior even if we apply just short pulses in one direction only this is what is going to reduce its resistance to the dc since the ions would move inside the water and this movement would require movement of current outside the water... as resonance is a phenomenon that energy is simply accumulated and is not consumed if no resistance is present if we get the resonant cavity to resonate it could generate electricity indeed..

but how do we find this resonance ?

 i  think we need to go for test circuits instead of vics etc...

see the behavior of water...

i think we should try applying 12v pulsed dc thru a 100kohm resistor and see the behavior of the cell in relation with the frequency

when we pulse a capacitor thru a full wave bridge rectifier and load it will be charged with the oposite voltage at the end of the pulse so every flip in polarity from the input source will result in a exponential decay voltage with double value from the input.. if there is inductance it will have a resonance frequency where the pulses at the output will look like stan with just the right half sinoid shape

honestly it appear to me that all that is required is to apply the than pulse to the water at the right frequency of the resonance and build the circuit to resonate at that specific frequency... simple as that...

to do it however is necessary to find the water resonant frequency.... or the ions movement resonance frequency ... this will create the short circuit we need

we could try to imagine

but i guess i already did something that was exactly the water resonance... i was using my single cell tube that is a little different from meyer cell in size ... smaller..

and i got it to resonate at 2,5khz once with lot of koh... it made a sound! but i was not measuring this and my circuit would not allow it to keep the current going because it was simply pulse on and off from the variac..

but i made this strange sound at this frequency and thats what i remember from it... i will try to find this resonance again but now monitoring the cell with the new tools i have like this digital oscilloscope and the isolated probe that will make easier to see the action..


meyer talk about current limited energy source

when we pulse a capacitor with frequency will increase the power applied... perhaps the idea of using a flyback system is to give a fair comparison of the applied voltage frequency to the output power .,..

in a flyback as the current increase linearly the power also is proportional only to the duty cycle not the frequency ... of course will change a little but will be more linear...

perhaps to find the resonance of water we need just a flyback arrangement applied to the water thru chokes and measure the dc current after the chokes... the chokes must have a diode connecting them right after the flyback to allow them to double the pulse

i predict this that the water will start to generate more gas and it will reduce the dc voltage across it at the same time since its becoming a short circuit to dc but at the same time it will become a great ac resitance or perhaps not too .. but its possible we are going to see some dumped ac oscilation at the pulses switching,.

thats why i think a capacitor could help giving a nice bang on water to make it visible...

once we have the frequency will be a piece of cake 

 
Title: atom short circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2018, 16:50:41 pm
another thing that cross my mind is the following

when we have a magnet molecules will align with it because of the spin

the electrons are believed to orbit a nucleus and so they have a spiral path possible around the nucleus

well tell me if im wrong but if we apply a changing magnetic field (put the water inside a coil and pulse it) wouldnt all the electrons in the system want to take a trip around their nucleus ? thinking microscopically?

looking it from the macro view it would not the ions also want to turn around driven by the voltage? so there are some things we are not considering.... but is nice to think too  ... specially allowing the coil collapse to high voltage!!!!!!





Title: the step down thing
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 26, 2018, 00:14:50 am
well we know that water behave as a capacitor just only up to 1volt or so

did anyone tried to apply really low voltages to it  instead of high ?

i plan to have the following test done

vic having 30v input than the primary has 200 turns secondary 20turns 2chokes 4 turns each
the chokes being on the same core and with subtracting polarity

the secondary will generate 3v and the chokes and diode will have a voltage drop of 1,5 volts so only 1,5 volts is applied to the water during pulse on at 30v input

during the pulse collapse the coils will discharge thru a second diode that allows their current to keep flowing after the pulse terminate...this diode being in parallel with the secondary and diode 1

in parallel with the series diode 1 can be useful a capacitor to double the voltage and or limit the collapse rise... it will double the applied voltage during next pulse on

each choke would have 0,6v at 30v input but during the collapse the water is going to see up to 20v depending on how much energy is accumulated on the core

if im not wrong its going to be one million times easier to find the water resonance under this conditions...

and since its applying very low voltage on water the leakage will be kept low but if resonance happen high current will flow with low power generating tons of gas

if we get a peak of 3 amps in at the collapse the chokes will make it become 150amps peak because of the relation 50:1 between the primary and the chokes... 200/4

i think the magic is here making the cell collapse because of resonance and combine with a coil collapse that flow a bunch of current at very low voltage

for that to happen resonance must be tuned... so perhaps another coil must be add to increase the inductance and or a capacitor can be add in parallel with diode 1 to help increase the voltage and regulate the frequency response... a capacitor should not be added in parallel with the diode 2 since its function is to conduct the current directly between the chokes so it can affect the cell directly

i think it could be made with an air core since its going to saturate anyway but a moving core would help make it more controllable since the power will depend on inductance and its going to be also a factor in the electrical resonance

combining the electrical resonance with the ion movement resonance seems to be the key to make the water become a short circuit resonating electrically to allow huge flow of current at ridiculous low dc voltage levels.


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 26, 2018, 06:27:24 am
quote
it kind of  clear that if we are aiming to get a resonance v1 of the molecule to induce a symetric stretch on the molecule we must apply energy in a manner that it is in sync with this frequency even if only applied at sub harmonic frequencies .... the frequency is exactly 3227 cm-1 wavenumber or around 98.THZ for liquid water
end

so where did that come from ? wavelength of the diameter of the water molecule?

So
Resonant frequency of
Oxygen 261.616hz
Hydrogen 1420.40575Mhz

Some thoughts with harmonics find the harmonic that they both have in common, to me you would have to get 261.616 times 1420.4057mhz  at this frequency they would 

1420405700 x 2661.616 = 3,780,574,537,611.2  3.78Thz that is if you could generate it.

Or
0.0000018738 hz again can you go that low

This would vibrate the hydrogen and the oxygen on the same frequency

The beast way is to heat the water to 3,000C 

well thats what I did.


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 26, 2018, 13:37:29 pm
Fabio, you can convert higher voltage to low voltage and high amperage if you desire, only using the coils.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 26, 2018, 20:13:43 pm
quote
it kind of  clear that if we are aiming to get a resonance v1 of the molecule to induce a symetric stretch on the molecule we must apply energy in a manner that it is in sync with this frequency even if only applied at sub harmonic frequencies .... the frequency is exactly 3227 cm-1 wavenumber or around 98.THZ for liquid water
end

so where did that come from ? wavelength of the diameter of the water molecule?

So
Resonant frequency of
Oxygen 261.616hz
Hydrogen 1420.40575Mhz

Some thoughts with harmonics find the harmonic that they both have in common, to me you would have to get 261.616 times 1420.4057mhz  at this frequency they would 

1420405700 x 2661.616 = 3,780,574,537,611.2  3.78Thz that is if you could generate it.

Or
0.0000018738 hz again can you go that low

This would vibrate the hydrogen and the oxygen on the same frequency

The beast way is to heat the water to 3,000C 

well thats what I did.

yes Brian but i believe this is not the frequency i´m going to achieve... the resonance i´m talking about is that of the ions in the liquid...
how do you get 3000C?

Yes x blade , thats what im looking into too... step down but with spike collapse
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2018, 08:00:27 am
no it is not the frequency on its own its the behaviour of the coil, at high frequency, and the current not being able to catch up so you end up with massive voltage spike sorry but hard for me to explain it has been 20yrs since I did this stuff.
All to do with the charging time of the coil.

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2018, 19:50:18 pm
i believe is possible to estimate the frequency depending on the ppm of course just an approximation given the model is correct

when we dissolve a ionic substance on water it ionises and the ions takes equidistant places to stay

therefore for a given concentration we could try to calculate the electric field required to induce resonance and the attraction force between them

of course water will have a damping effect but the higher is the ppm i assume the frequency is higher because it gets closer although the capacitance of the cell as a whole will increase decreasing a electrical resonance frequency... .a higher ppm will also mean it need a higher electric field to induce resonance, because the electric field must be bigger than that of the attraction of the ions for each other,,,

to find the distance i guess we need to find the volume occupied by each ion and cloud of counter ions and water molecules

than use the standard formula for the force to find the force holding them apart from each other (remember is a 3d problem)

i believe from that will be possible to calculate a spring constant linking the ions and from it and their masses the frequency !


Title: the distance
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2018, 20:23:21 pm
the distance in a 1 molar concentration solution is around 1.2nm

1 mili molar 12nm   
1 micromolar would be 120nm
1 nano molar 1200nm
and so on

using a potassium nitrate 1 milimolar would be 0.1 g per litre of water...

pure deionised water has a ph of 7 and a concentration of 10^-7M

source http://physicsweb.phy.uic.edu/450/MARKO/N005.html
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2018, 05:51:32 am
How do I get 3,000C  well that is a plasma project. 
Creating high voltage spike with little or no current that can be done.
The ion exchange or the ion path I believe is one of the ways to get some good HHO if that’s what you want.
Just add a bit of KOH powder, like many are doing, lowering the resistivity of the water and then you could use the voltage spike, high voltage but not kv’s, or then go to parallel system and use the high circulating currents. 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2018, 14:42:56 pm
ppm stands for part per million and is considered as 1mg per litre of water

rain water here have around 4 ppm so it may be in the micro molar range

i would like to point one thing... the cell concentrate some of the ions of all the water in between the plates altering the ppm between the plates and of the rest of the bath
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2018, 14:46:03 pm
How do I get 3,000C  well that is a plasma project. 
Creating high voltage spike with little or no current that can be done.
The ion exchange or the ion path I believe is one of the ways to get some good HHO if that’s what you want.
Just add a bit of KOH powder, like many are doing, lowering the resistivity of the water and then you could use the voltage spike, high voltage but not kv’s, or then go to parallel system and use the high circulating currents.

i guess this is the way indeed.. I'm in a loop thinking of how the resonance is going to help us...

i was thinking about using  high value resistor in series with the water to get only few milliamps to try monitor the voltage as function of frequency...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 01, 2019, 04:48:17 am

as for adding a high value resistor the water as in distilled is already too high.
so if you are going to use a small amount of KOH powder too bring this down, and you want to use resonance then you can do it some different ways to control the current.
You can start with a voltage control then change to current control.
Or you can go another way, if the frequency is high, and the voltage is high, it does not have to be in the kv’s range.  With the copper coil and the rise time T being short then the current as it is lagging the voltage any way will not have time to get very high, low current or next to nothing. 

 
Title: very good physics book
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2019, 17:34:23 pm

just change the number on the end of the link to see the other chapters

https://web.phys.ksu.edu/fascination/Chapter13.pdf

https://web.phys.ksu.edu/fascination/Chapter6.pdf

https://web.phys.ksu.edu/fascination/Chapter9.pdf

Title: the right answer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2019, 08:17:45 am
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235343816_An_Investigation_into_the_Electrical_Impedance_of_Water_Electrolysis_Cells_-_With_a_View_to_Saving_Energy
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2019, 10:55:10 am
a nice doc.
But alu electrodes with koh?
Without any type of powersupply they must have seen hydrogen gas...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2019, 14:43:16 pm
hahaha thats true =)


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2019, 16:24:30 pm
 hi if they used alum with KOH the will not last long but lots of gas if it is set right  that is why the use SS with KOH
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2019, 19:40:22 pm
today im testing the KNO3... 1 gram per 100ml gives a TDM reading of 2700ppm and applying 5 volts gives 3 amps... my ph metter seem to be out of calibration.. not showing consistent values .. perhaps i buy a new..

the gas is being generated only after 2,5volts is applied... and dont seem to generate heat..

although i used deionized water to start with, its forming that brown dirty on the water at the top of the bubbling water tower... i guess this may be some iron or other metal coming out of the electrodes or from the water (contaminants that were not conductive so didnt get out of it... i guess when we apply power they form a visible matter and precipitate...

so perhaps is a good idea to electrolise the water before filtering and than deionizing



Title: Restricting amps
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 00:17:23 am
today im testing with this 0.1molar solution of KNO3 and i found some interesting data about it

no current pass bellow 2,5 volts

if the source is disconnected it will retain 1,44v

at 6v rms  there is 4,5 amps  flowing with no choke so the cell resistance to dc is consistently at this voltage around 1,5ohms

my cell is the cell you see in the video in youtube here

i´m using only dc for the test now






Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 07:28:16 am
water is yellow, over it there is a brown to black precipitate turning water to black during the operation...

it apear to not interfere on the gas production.... but who knows...

i believe that the most reasonable way to know if our electrolysis is working at higher efficiency is automating the calculation of power going into the cell

the input impedance will give very useful information and we must pay attention at the temperature change as the conductivity is a function of the temperature

there is two powers being dissipated one is heat so a temperature reading versus the amount of water in the tank will tell how much energy became heat

and the second is gas generation and the only way i see to determine it with exact result is to use a semi analytical scale.. .a precision of 1mg.. other than using flow meters (they could be calibrated and a rapid indicator..)

there is a heat flow sensor that can be used to than ignite the gas and even verify if the power output is greater than the input by heating some water in a separate tank and calculating how much heat went in..

https://huksefluxbrasil.com.br/produto-servico/open/sensores-de-fluxo-de-calor/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIvuyp8oTb3wIVBAaRCh05WAMfEAAYASAAEgIyavD_BwE

my cell is consuming some water visibly.. today i consumed like 10ml during tests... my impression is that i should have needed more amps to have this result..

Title: coils in parallel
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 08:19:16 am
anyone tried? to see if getting coils in parallel helps restriction?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 14:19:42 pm
the brown scum is ususal when you use  KOH or similar some times the hydrogen will attract the scu and bring it to the surface  tast some of it with a gas lighter  but one to light the gas stove.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 15:46:44 pm
the brown scum is ususal when you use  KOH or similar some times the hydrogen will attract the scu and bring it to the surface  tast some of it with a gas lighter  but one to light the gas stove.

thats true! koh makes much less of it... i´m still wondering what hell is it... i guess may be iron ions and maybe chromium nickel etc...   however i was trying to get the thing done at a more neutral ph... i want that there is the two ions species present such as is not needed to have the sodium trying to plate to the electrode and than oxidizing
but instead work directly on the H3O+ ions

when we have ph base it wont have H3O+ ions only K+ and OH-...


i also am considering it could be impurities from the KNO3 electrolyte.. since i got it cheap and not high purity ...

 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 22:18:14 pm
i tried today the deionized water it were 0ppm but may have absorbed from the cell during the heating

it took a while but i could bring it to boil going up to 110v and the current started to rise after a while and than maintained around 1,5 amps

after i read the ppm was 77 and decreasing with the temperature last time still warm to touch it was 33

the temperature change the impedance of the cell greatly

today i tried the koh electrolyte it indeed conduct more current at a lower voltage... it start conducting200ma at 2v and rapdly increase at 6,2v it conducts 8amps

the problem is that it generate lots of foam... my potassium hydroxyde is at least 85% pure so maybe there is something helping the foam to appear .. perhaps a 99% pure would not make so much foam

it does not made the brown stuff but the foam is a pain in the ass as it takes some time to dissipate

than i took the yellow water with potassium nitrate and add 1g of potassium hydroxide bringing the ph to around 12 the water still yellow and now it conducts a little better and dont generate the brown stuff

i´m not sure if some of the nitrate didnt stay at the precipitate decanted on the botton of the cup i used to mix the ingredients...

adding more nitrate to the cell and some more koh solution mixing started doing some brown again

at this point the resistance of the cell at 4 volts is 0,5 ohm because i have 4 v rms and 8 amps rms ..

what i´m seeing is that the resistance is dependent on the voltage! so at a certain voltage it should drop to zero?

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 23:03:04 pm
well.....almost zero.
Think about it, when you have 3 volts and 10 amps, then R = 0.3ohms
Thats close to deadshort....
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 23:19:41 pm
for a very small cell indeed and just dc going

now that i learned how to use molar quantity i feel more confident to understand what hell is happening in the water

something that surprises me is the heat not being so great

well 4 volts 8 amps are 32 watts of power so at least 9 grams of water should be  converted to hydrogen with this watts however with 8 amps im not sure if its going to happen

also if i´m applying almost 2,5v of over voltage where is this at least 20watts going?

i´m going to turn labview on and add a termometer into the cell

to split one mol of water we need 55 amps so 18 grams of water disappear... at 2volts this is 110watts at 1,23v 66watts

it would generate around 40 liters of gas in one hour one mole of hydrogen h2 and half mole of oxygen o2



Obs my power suppy is a variac 0-250v 500w connected to another similar variac working as a isolated step down transformer  that have a 110v output with thicker wire for max 250v input..

its being rectified by a full wave bridge rectifier that have a 100kohm resistor across the outputs and also 3x 10mf 70v capacitors in series.. each have a diode in parallel to prevent the capacitor to reverse the voltage..

for the readings im using my digital oscilloscope for the voltage and signal and the rms multimeter for the current 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 23:41:16 pm
Ok  are you using the powder KOH?

Did you have the coil in series or parallel or none at all just the DC power?

With straight DC the current is the V / DC resistance across the anodes.
The closed you get the lower the resistance 3mm should be as close as you need with this or even 5mm.

Your cell it acting like a very leaky capacitor, that is normal with using KOH.

Series Resonance with the coil in series with the leaky cell is at resonance as you know is
XL = XC   then DC resistance of the coil and of the cell at resonance is all that the circuit will see.
 With the coil in parallel then that now is a new ball game, it is still the same at resonance the DC resistance is then like two resistors in parallel.
Now if you have then a DC 50/50 pulse, when the pulse drops to zero some of the coil charge will discharge how much will depend on how quick the disconnection is.
Then the cell will discharge into the coil, until the voltage it is lower than that of the cell and so on until both are discharged.
If the set frequency is high enough at resonance so that the coil does not even get to the  T constant  it take 5 x T to reach full current.
You will still get the voltage across the cell, it still is the resistance in parallel but the coil discharge may all go in a small negative pulse so then you will have just the cell discharging the ringing is shorter.
You can then adjust the frequency and the resonant point to give you a high voltage the full say 12V with very little current and you then have the voltage doing the work.             
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 23:43:50 pm
 those caps in the power supply shoud be in parallel with the dc to reduce the ripple the circuit will see a DC supply with an AC pulces
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2019, 00:11:17 am
those caps in the power supply shoud be in parallel with the dc to reduce the ripple the circuit will see a DC supply with an AC pulces

they are exactly there... i´m having a ac superimposed over a dc thats what it seems looking at the oscilloscope

there is ac current too although not reversing direction!

http://www.chem1.com/acad/webtext/solut/solut-7.html

http://www.graylark.com/eve/ionic-resonance.html
http://www.electrochemsci.org/papers/vol8/80303731.pdf
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2019, 09:08:46 am
capacitors are defined as 1faraday = 1 amp * 1 second  / 1 volt

meaning if we take one amp from a 1 faraday cap for 1 second it will loose 1 volt.

so a 1 milifaraday will loose 1000v in one second discharging at 1 amp rate

the current a capacito can  flow amps = faraday*volts *frequency   because frequency is = to seconds^-1

Title: temperature rise
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2019, 09:37:34 am
the temperature of our system is very important to determine how much power is becoming gas how much is becoming heat and how much is becoming excitation of the gas.

the temperature of the water running thru the cell change over time will give how much power its absorbing as heat

on my labview environment i´m doing a calculator that indicates directly the watts coming as heat from this type of calculations...

https://sciencing.com/how-8643971-convert-wattage-degrees.html

basically watts * seconds = joules

joules / mass / scpecific heat = temperature rise of the amount of substance...

an arduino could be used for this purpose too.. thought

i´m adding today a wall plug wattmeter to see how much power i´m wasting before become dc  too
Title: facts
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2019, 15:05:57 pm
Facts

for the electrons to want to take a trip on the external circuit is required to provide a potential and this potential is related to the force of attraction of the water ions or system to the electron so its not free to simply go around in the circuit and on the other hand on the negative electrode there is also a repelling force a negative potential or voltage that also dont want or dont allow the free insertion of electrons into the solution...

i believe here is where resonance comes into play

the resonance will allow the increase of potential of the ions to the point where it simply dont have the same attraction force it had before allowing the water to perhaps zero up the potential and leave only ohmic resistance...

still ohms is a pain in the *  but is more a controlable thing... will be about increase the surface area to increase efficiency and perhaps superconductors for the chokes..
if the cell had 100mohm to apply 10 amps will consume 10 watts and will be on the 100% efficiency range because 100mohm *10amps = 1v

therefore to increase the efficiency and power output this resistance must be in the mili to micro ohms range

seems to me that meyer was assuming that the voltage was producing an effect on water in the sense that it reduce the resistance the more voltage you apply.. there is a top limit however... the first is the efficiency... we dont want the cell to get over one volt of loss because this is around the 100% limit we want to get far from it..

 

this guy has nice videos


Title: way to generate electricity
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2019, 00:18:29 am
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2019, 12:39:25 pm
I have watched this guy many times many years ago
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2019, 13:04:44 pm
this is a very interesting guy

there is one video where he charge a piece of plastic than touch the plastic with a metal and discharge the metal and say it can be done indefinitely without discharging the plastic

to actually have something to discharge he first touch the metal in contact with the plastic such as electrons can flow into the metal from his hand by attraction of the dielectric... and when he moves away the metal from the dielectric the electrons get a higher potential and are able to discharge...

i was thinking if there could be a way to work like that with the wfcs
 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2019, 14:14:07 pm

vibrators relay was used to generate ac

its a short circuit

it seems to me the capacitor make the relay stay open...

we could use a series inducto to change the freq too

and if the load is not connected like that it wont affect the freq... meaning thru another dc source...

a relay depending on its construction can be used to generate extreme high voltages because it can interrupt the current and stay alive

i think the best way to use is with normal connected and apply a short pulse to the coil to make it open very fast.. thats all thats required..

i was imagining a pendulum relay like a mass on the top of a spring and push back and forth forcing the contacts on two points right bellow the spring such as to form an oscillator..  the mass and spring wold give an specific frequency and it would help maintain the contacts for a specific time... well interesting idea.. is like a movable spark gap after all

under vacuum would be the best for operation

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2019, 17:10:47 pm
yesterday i was working at the excel tables and graphs to try to determine the relation between the water leakage and water resistance...

i found that for a specific fixed voltage the current will increase exponentially if the resistance goes down to zero

here is the thing the area of the electrodes will tell how low will this resistance will be and the less we produce the more efficient it will be

if the water reduce to a 1 miliohm resistor this mean that if we want 18 grams per hour of gas it would require 55 amps this would make 55milivolts so very high efficiency

if we were to have 1230 amps to flow it would have 1,23 v so the efficiency would have a top limit of 100% in this specific case .. .

for example you have a cell that has 1 ohm and you manage to force half amps current to pass thru it at 0,5 volts... to get 500 amps you need 1000 cells like this in parallel ... to reduce the resistance (assuming it were possible to pass the current at this low voltage,, 


Title: meyer resonance
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2019, 17:45:52 pm
well guys

for me it seems like meyer was indeed resonating water until it reached a specific voltage and there he gated dumping all the energy in form of current into the water

i build a vibrator circuit that made some stepup waveform i want to share   http://tinyurl.com/ydy4clc2

at this graph you see the maximum leakage current to maintain 246% efficiency (0,5v) as function of cell resistance...

at 1ohm you have 0,5 amps
at 0,1ohm you have 5amps 
at 0,01ohm you have 50 amps
at 1mohm you have 500 amps

the graph makes clear that increasing the area will decrease the resistance and allow higher current at the same efficiency...

the resonance will consume power too so the area increase may also have a limitation since it will increase the power resonance require


from this would could conclude or say that a cell having one miliohm resistance will have 246% efficiency if operating at 500amps or 0,5v and could be much higher at lower voltage or current density..

this graphs shows the long way to reduce the cell resistance..
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2019, 03:44:26 am
Sebosfato   Hi well I have done all what you are talking about years ago, and at least you are thinking.

There is one problem with what you are saying and that is the rise time of a coil T  it take
5x T to get it to pass the full current of the circuit so as the frequency gets higher it is harder for the coil to do this.
 A coil with just a few turns may be in the pf range, to get a Resonant frequency anywhere the range that you are talking about.
Then there is the DC resistance of the coil, with just a few turns it will be real low, may be 0.00001  even 0.0001ohm will give you a massive circulating currents.
I have seen an was part of one such circuit that was made. 
1-1/2 turns of solid copper bar around 25 to 30mm by 5 to 10mm
And a massive bank of caps all were non polarized caps this was 415VAC it was to get lots of amps from the grid free! This was to get the power factor to zero or to slightly capacitive.
Thousands of amps in the circulating circuit, this was needed to test a particular type of new SCR switch.
So the cell would need to be in the pf range as well, look it was a long time ago.
So the result may be that you have a high frequency and a high voltage but little or no current unless you can get the balance right.
I have done this in another post and I did upload a circuit.     

 http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2119.msg32289.html#msg32289

Title: Re: meyer resonance
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2019, 09:07:50 am
well guys

for me it seems like meyer was indeed resonating water until it reached a specific voltage and there he gated dumping all the energy in form of current into the water

i build a vibrator circuit that made some stepup waveform i want to share   http://tinyurl.com/ydy4clc2

at this graph you see the maximum leakage current to maintain 246% efficiency (0,5v) as function of cell resistance...

at 1ohm you have 0,5 amps
at 0,1ohm you have 5amps 
at 0,01ohm you have 50 amps
at 1mohm you have 500 amps

the graph makes clear that increasing the area will decrease the resistance and allow higher current at the same efficiency...

the resonance will consume power too so the area increase may also have a limitation since it will increase the power resonance require


from this would could conclude or say that a cell having one miliohm resistance will have 246% efficiency if operating at 500amps or 0,5v and could be much higher at lower voltage or current density..

this graphs shows the long way to reduce the cell resistance..

It sounds good to me.
Have you tested this with a wfc?
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2019, 14:08:40 pm
Not yet at the water.. i´m doing some random tests yet to check the electrolyte behavior..

check this new simulation Steve

http://tinyurl.com/ycnac77q

with the simulator i was able to set the water resistance at different values and see how many watts average i was spending for each amp flow.. .

i found that this is a good indication to see if we are overunity or not.. basically to be overunity we need to have more rms amps output than average watts at the input..

the cell must be actually lower in resistance than the graph predicts since it will have other losses at the diodes and switch for example..

the diodes must have low voltage drop! or some other way to rectify should be used.. 

the cell voltage 1,23v gives us the base limit that it would need to expend 1,23watts per each amp flow so to keep it simple if you have more amps than watts you are overunity (all rms)

considering a diode and some 300mv overvoltage this gives like 1,8 watts per amps for a very efficient electrolysis cell





 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2019, 17:10:04 pm
just did some tests here

the cell is runing with

5,5v* 8a = 44w

5.5v/8a = .68 ohm

the electrolyte is a mix of potassium nitrate and hydroxide after a few days it dont make much foam anymore and at 2 volts its giving me 200ma so 10ohms resistance at 2.27v the resistance drops to 2.27ohms and is equal to 1 ohm at 2.62v

330w input power to the variac so 286w  is becoming heat at the variac the stepdown transformer and diode bridge and electrolytic capacitors...

i also have a fan cooler to help the step down coils to cool down faster it consumes 4w

basically

what we need to start testing for good is what i just set up here

watt meter on the input of power supply
amps meter in series with the cell
oscilloscope across the cell

other things that can be used

termometer and cronometer or some arduino implementation to monitor the temperature rise as function of the cell water mass to determine how much power became heat on water
peak amp meter at the input of the pulsing transformer or oscilloscope
scale to check for water consumption (given it has enough precision and your cell is light weight to put over it)  (or run enough time to get lot of water consume for it can  measure)
closed environment with cold walls to help condensate and determine the evaporation as function of water temperature and gas evolution
other implementation is a coulombs meter (can be implemented on arduino or labview) or use a calculator and rms amp meter.. this would indicate the mass of hydrogen generated for every faraday or 96500coulombs 1g is generated of hydrogen and 8 grams of oxygen 1 coulomb is 1 amp flow for 1 second

1 faraday capacitance is 1 amp * 1sec / 1 volt

 i made a graph of the situation of my cell check on the attachment




Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2019, 01:36:46 am
in this simulation http://tinyurl.com/ybxnqhtn

 i could determine that a step down of 1:3 to 1:5 is all that is required to get overunity with a 10mohm resistor representing the cell.. the only important thing to notice is the collapse of the transformer...

another thing to notice is the duty cycle... i found that if you add more duty cycle over 50% it will start to step up

this transformer has 300uh primary and 99% coupling on simulation

at 50% it wont get build up but if you increase the duty cycle the power start to increase...

i think because of two things

one the time increase will allow more current to get in

and the lower discharge time will not let it to full discharge so the discharge and input interact

it seems to me all we needed to do were to look what was neeeded

1:3 step down with movable core
variable voltage source
high amps diodes
high voltage relay
frequency generator
watt meter
amp meter
electrolyte
cell
and the right frequency

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2019, 05:48:55 am
The increase in the PWM  to say 80/20  instead of 50/50 will give the coil more time to get to its full charge.
If say at 50/50   at T at the 63% was only 1ma then at the 80/20  the current is now more than 1ma it has had more time to charge. There would also be a bigger negative discharge when the voltage stops.   
Could you please measure the DC resistance across the anodes not a calculation?
Take note of the amount of KOH that you put in, so to get a % against the water volume in you cell.
You need to know the DC resistance and the Capacitance it may be in the pf range.   
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2019, 19:15:08 pm
The increase in the PWM  to say 80/20  instead of 50/50 will give the coil more time to get to its full charge.
If say at 50/50   at T at the 63% was only 1ma then at the 80/20  the current is now more than 1ma it has had more time to charge. There would also be a bigger negative discharge when the voltage stops.   
Could you please measure the DC resistance across the anodes not a calculation?
Take note of the amount of KOH that you put in, so to get a % against the water volume in you cell.
You need to know the DC resistance and the Capacitance it may be in the pf range.

the vales in the table are actual values not calculated... i applied a dc voltage and measured the current... the calculation is just to get the ohms value

i have searched some and i think the capacitance value of the cell is not so small...at least at low volts...  if you consider the double layer capacitance you find that its very very big and there is also another capacitive effect called pseudocapacitance and its 100x greater than the double layer capacitance... because of this i´m starting to believe the water has a very big capacitance indeed... perhaps from mili to faraday range



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2019, 09:08:08 am

https://pdfs.semanticscholar.org/209c/fd3557b74bf455462332437faee991586cf9.pdf

look the apendix the meaning of gating
Title: electron multiplication MCP
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2019, 09:55:43 am
microchanel plate is a sort of material consisting of micropores that allow electrons to come on one side and be multiplied by effect of a voltage applied passing thru it...

well you may be imagining what i´m thinking

the idea is.. if we could have such material separating the cell it would work as a gas separator and perhaps electron multiplier so water may become the source of the electrons?

http://www.dmphotonics.com/MCP_MCPImageIntensifiers/microchannel_plates.htm

https://agupubs.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/2016JA022580

still about the simulation at 50% duty it consume only 1 watt 

with 65% 80w

http://tinyurl.com/ydceemk2
Title: capacitance
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2019, 11:25:30 am
Titanium tantalum aluminum are metals that when oxidized form a oxide layer that is indeed a good dielectric...

i found out that is not so hard to make a capacitor at home... for example with titanium electrodes and magnanese dioxide ... i believe may even be possible to make a nickle electroless plate on an oxided aluminum or titanium for example.. form a all in one plate capacitor...

i was thinking about it because of that patent that mention an structure where the electrons can be discharged from the two capacitors without discharging the capacitors turning off the screening of the charge

i imagined a capacitor with a small hole in the middle where the negative side wire is forced to pass thru the capacitor... forcing any free electrons to get up and round on the circuit and discharge with the ions..   

 aluminum capacitive wire... bifilar coil capacitors

 

Title: 3 phase transfomer dc pulse
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2019, 13:42:40 pm
i had i though here

i imagined a 3 phase transformer being used instead for this function... this would kind of affect all coils involved.. could be interesting..

each being pulsed independently i believe could create interesting effects..

 
Title: Something about Tay he han
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2019, 13:23:12 pm
I remembered something i read on a patent about generating hydrogen with high voltages that they mention that tayhe patent should have had the same mechanism to avoid the screening of the charge..SOME WAY TO DISCHARGE THE IONS.. the thing is something that allow a capacitor to keep attracting the ions and discharging them without discharge the capacitor ITSELF
they talk about shield in the patent and refer to another patent,,, anyone want to look and help us decifrate it?

the say is a special structure that allow it to happen

found it https://patents.google.com/patent/US20100126846A1/en




in attachment you see the graph with a bigger range of data...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2019, 23:32:42 pm
my prediction is that as voltage rises the current will rise linear only up to a point than it will start to have a limit so its increasing resistance again and should goes to infinity again....

how many amps is required to saturate the electrolyte to reach this point?
Title: Perform electrostatic attraction
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 15, 2019, 04:16:47 am
i study some more about charging by induction... i found one interesting point....

a bifilar coil can be interpreted as a coil that will cancel the electromagnetic field if it is connected in series... so it should not induce into each other a voltage since they have opposite magnetic fields...

this leave only one aspect evident... if the coils were indeed very resistive what would happen?

well there would be a high voltage across the coil if some current flow ...

imagine a bifilar coil one of them cut in the middle and connected thru a resistor high value... if you apply a current to it will develop high voltage on the coil ends...

now comes the interesting part

the other bifilar coil will receive the electrostatic force from the coil having a high potential difference across its ends and should develop a potential difference opposite to that inducing it... but should not have  electromagnetic induction...

i never saw it this way because i was only looking at the electromagnetic not at the electrostatic point of view

if we have a vic with 3 coils one bigger in the middle and two that cancel the electromagnetic field of the middle in series 1:2:1 separeted by diodes you wont have 0 volts out because of the capacitances will charge

i´m planing to use a tube diode as a electron extraction device in a future...


i also made some workings with drawing double bifilar coils

to use one with lose end and the other isolated to act to charge by induction... one portion of the coil must be in contact with the other coil to maximize the capacitance and so the effect but it may have segments to cancel its electromagnetic field

hope to have confused most not interested



 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 16, 2019, 13:42:14 pm
i think the pseudocapacitance i mention the other day wont happen much on stainless steel ... but the double layer will be there...
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2019, 07:30:31 am
hey

i was looking again into  the techbrief and i found something very interesting that most of us may have overlooked

is about the steam resonator and stan call it "differential voltage waveguide"

first
the steam resonator signals can be done exactly the same with the fracture cell circuit inverting what frequency is the higher... so it creates two independent packets of variable pulsewidth alternately or alternate pulsewidth with gate between (if i remember well)

second
the pulse goes to the water one at a time thru a diode and primary of one choke set... the other plate in this set receiving the pulse is connected to ground thru  the secondary from other choke set the water in the case work as if it were the source of electrons for the positive pulse so meyer states that the plate will by skin effect conduct the waveform til the end and perhaps return at a resonant frequency but the wave will try to get to water but the secondary of the other choke set will not allow electrons to come in easily but will just be just enough for the wave to reach and effect water   

third
the pulses may come from a flyback configuration because he mention in one drawing that change the pulse amplitude and it may be the most efficient way to do that ... so each electrode set receive a sequence of positive pulses than the other receives ... notice that while one electrode receive a sequence of positive pulses the other on the other set receive ac and perhaps a second positive pulse derived from this ac depending on choke polarity( need to look into)

i found in a document something about skin effect saying that whatever current that is not straight dc must be considered as a surface current (check into that)

the fact is that the way he arrange the circuit with two transformers is even possible to ad dc bias to the thing and here the things get interesting because all is needed is a diode and coil for each set...

he says that he is moving the molecules but he is moving everything inside and should not consume power since they are going in and out... however if you see the dc there you see that is not only heat he is doing with it!

he claims the water molecules will move because the polarization but i think it can only create a high pressure zone, but the atoms including the oxygen inside the molecule will become polarized.. and i think this is the point..

meyer put in the tech brief an equation that i solved in the university time that is the voltage as function of a charge and it tells how is the potential decay due to a point charge in a dielectric medium

it can be calculated for a sphere to with easy.. for cyclinders it require some assumptions.. but the point is if you charge an electrode to high voltage there is charge in it and so you set up a potential gradient at the dielectric around it

if there is another plate at a distance it will have a capacitance and so this plate will be at a little lower potential because the dielectric is not charged yet... but there is this potential.. if the plate is allowed to receive electrons the stress on the dielectric increase but the dielectric is indeed polarized by the charge of the 'high voltage"


i think this is the way to exite the current flow...somehow 


Title: magnetic wire
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2019, 08:05:12 am
the magnetic wire..

Stan in new zealand seems to be very careful with his words because he new there was someone there working on hydrogen too... when he was ask about the resistance wire he say he has got both ways but he is very very much trying to escape from the question

i was thinking some more as usual and the magnetic wire tests i did in italy came back in mind... and i thought of something.. if the wire is magnet the magnetic permeability may be around 200 or less or more... it will work like a nucleus of the transformer and form an opposite magnetic field that attracts the original field by one side... by the other side if a small current flow it wont dissipate much power.. but if this current is at very high voltage and it create perhaps less magnetic reaction to the primary it could be used as a power amplifier! (just guess) perha´ps

i think we should use some and take real measurements to see if can indeed amplify the power if well used or not..

the type i used in italy i never found again

but i think we could use galvanized steel wire with polyetilene coating ...  easy to find for many applications..

i found some here but is 2mm thick with the coating .. is used for holding telephone cables on the streets..
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2019, 11:53:44 am
magnetic wire is NOT magnetic it is just insulated copper winding wire  just the terminology, it could be aluminium  coated or copper coated but it is winding wire.
Aluminium may have a difference in its resistance to copper.
this may have been a way that Stan use to throw some of the real information, he has done this  from what I have seen of his documents.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2019, 12:01:55 pm
There is also something else that others have tried to do with three different frequencies.
On reason hydrogen has one natural resonant frequency, so does oxygen, harmonic frequencies can also play a part. So if you can get a common frequency to satisfy all these it would certainly vibrate the water molecules.     
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2019, 13:33:47 pm
stan talk about using 430 ss material for the wires... i was talking about this... this is magnetic wire not wire for magnets like copper aluminum magnet wire.. when we call it magnetic is because it have iron and is attracted to magnets without current flow..

for example if you have 1000v 1 amp is 1000 watts output.. if the coil has 100 ohms for example it will consume 100 watts to conduct such current to the load.. but lets say the reaction this current causes is different on the input transformer.. we must measure it.. and come to a conclusion ...

I think so far (talking about me if anyone feel likewise is a mere coincidence) that i´m not sure if i´m being so much efficient in trying to discover this technology, since i came back to brasil is being not so easy to live and have money to the project all the time and some tests i started to construct and most didnt even tested.... i decided to study physics to understand the language of science but still i´m not a very organized person to keep all my info and details.. i´m not 20 years old anymore and my memory is not the same too.. thats why sometimes i write my ideas here and some of the details of what i´m doing.. i´m sharing with you and with myself on the future that dont remember well what did.
motivation is something that makes the project go on without all everything.. i still have some motivation.. but i fell i still need to improve my way of doing the tests and fell like most of us should too...
to keep up the motivation our discussions here are important to me because it keeps my mind awake and active. I feel like if i had some one to help keep the ideas going on before i change them i could have more chance of doing it better.

sorry to tell you this wish i could tell you i´m full of money and time and focus to do tests and i´m  the most talented and organized person to deal with it, but so far reality is proving me wrong.. my wish is to make the tests the best i can so i can sleep at night.. its being a few years i sleep only 3 or 4 hours for night.. all this makes me anxious..

My critics first to my self is on how hell i´m going to measure and take the most of this info to my benefit.. like doing graphs to understand better... tables... drawings.. i do it mostly but  i left behind many stuff that i could have done to be sure of what didnt work...

for example the ss wire how to test it?

i would construct a step up transformer and connect a load to it and measure the load power output and the power input of the transformer.. measure if there is some phase difference between load and input power etc..

calculate the power dissipated on each coil, nucleus etc,..

i think i´m going to asks sometimes  about any ideas on how to get tested differently..


what about you what would you do? to make sure it work or why it didnt?






Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 18, 2019, 04:25:31 am
sorry about writing too much, after all i recognize i put my life in second plane for a long time since i started this research and this is one of the best things i could do to try to do something for the humanity but being alone here in brazil without much support and no one believing in anything hurts the soul a bit too...

after i wrote all this today i took a coffee and it gave me a huge energy it made me organize my workshop a few and few and regain confidence and hope.

i have look into some of my prototypes and most of my tools...


Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 18, 2019, 06:49:29 am
I also use the forum as storage of ideas and knowledge.
And yes. We probably spent too much time on these subjects. So just keep on going with it ONLY when it provides you fun and knowledge...
Thats why i am still here.
Maybe i can even make a difference for my childrens future...

Hang in there, Fabio.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 18, 2019, 15:54:57 pm
I know you are going to bro!

=D

i did some crazy tests today... i made the water to create arcs on the surface tension and i think i got a very fast oxygen generation on reducing the anode contact with water ].,.. i will make a video about it ...

the oxygen rate of evolution surprised me makes big bubbles instantly!

using around 60 watts on water 120v ... above 70 it start to arc at the input of the variac 250w going ... the variac is connected to the cell thru a 2:1 stepdown and full wave bridge and 3,3mf capacitor in parallel...

the cathode is a ss tube that has being palladized and the anode barelly touch water...the ss rod from the tube cell made a dramatic effect here too hope to get it on video ... lots of heat too

water has some 1/4 molar of potassium hydroxide plus some potassium nitrate

ph over 12
Title: magnetic river
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 19, 2019, 09:27:41 am
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2019, 16:38:40 pm
Quote  “for example if you have 1000v 1 amp is 1000 watts output.. if the coil has 100 ohms for example it will consume 100 watts to conduct such current to the load.. but lets say the reaction this current causes is different on the input transformer.. we must measure it.. and come to a conclusion ...”

I think that you will have to learn a bit more about coils,  a 1,000v across a coil   would depend on a number of things    first, DC resistance that you said was 100ohms,  then you will need its reactance XL, is it DC power r AC power I assumed that you meant that it was DC 1,000V and the coil had a DC resistance of 100ohms.
 Now you will need the inductance of the coil.  Then you can put the inductance over the resistance to give you the time content T , then you can construct a curve to the 5T.
Once fully at the 5T period the coil will then pass full current,   1,000/100 = 10amps  this then results in 1,000 x 100 = 10,000watts.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2019, 16:14:04 pm
i didnt understood what you mean with the 5 time period...

inductance is Henrie and is a kind of linear relationship with time being 1 henrie = 1volt applied for 1 second / raise the current to 1 amp 1H = volts*second/amps

if you need to get faster just reduce the inductance....

i was meaning that if you have for example a load of  900W 900ohm 1 amp and your coils consume 100W 100ohm only dissipating heat at the coil because of its resistance..the idea is that the reaction magnetic field caused to oppose the initial field could be reduced.. just hipotesis...you are correct that i´m not considering the reactance of the coil i was only looking at the dc resistance.;.

with the reactance it gets more complicated but for example it had 100ohm reactance 100 ohm resistance dc and load 200ohms and we have 400 volts applied... the load is going to receive around 200volts 1 amp? right? so is a 200 watt load... 100 watts are being lost at the coil and the reactance accumulate power that is used in the next cycle so you spend literaly 300 watts

please correct me if i´m wrong

 


 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2019, 19:03:15 pm
i´m starting to think that temperature may be one big factor in hydrogen gas on demand production... after all electrolysis is an endothermic process and so adding heat to it lower the needed energy to achieve separation ..

maybe if its possible to generate the hydrogen and oxygen separetely in a vessel at high temperature and pressure to not allow to boil... than the energy of the pressurized gas can run turbines that convert the pressure and temperature to electricity that is feedback into the system...

there is a lot of energy available here to catch because it only limited to the pressure you can achieve and flow of gas.. it would allow generation of high amount of hydrogen at cheap cost as its regenerating its own electricity from the pressure..

we know that temperature is pure vibration and the higher is the vibration amplitude more far away and close together the base components of matter get... everything hot emits infrared... mirrored surfaces form a cavity ... however water have some different frequencies happening at the same time,

les say we want to produce 1,1kg of hydrogen per hour and that you consume 100w per mole of hydrogen... around 500 moles to get 1kg  so you need around 55kw of consume per hour...

if you take this 1,1kg from around 10 liters of water you have 10kg of mass that is going to be turned into gas expansion plus of course the evaporated water from the heat so lets say in one hour we also evaporate another 10 liters of water....

so you have a mass of 20kg to flow in one hour at the pressure you allow it to get

here is where it gets interesting because is a matter of charging the system up and when it reach the required pressure it will be able to generate its own power or perhaps part of it or maybe even more... depends only on the pressure you allow it to get...

stan has a patent on it called the hydrogen electrical generator or something like..

so here he is not worried about efficiency so much only about making lot of gas with small electrodes and use the product as source of energy

how much power you can generate with 20kg for example...

E=m*g*h so if you would use gravity you could have 200joule for each meter of high

if we use speed it get interesting

E=m*v^2/2
so if the speed is very high (pressurized gas coming out) the energy is high

so 20 kg times a speed of say 100m/s is 100kJ that is equivalent to 27w in one hour but if you increase this speed say 1000m/s you have now 2,777 kw of power... it increase with the square of the velocity of the gas... so you can simply add more mass or more pressure to increase the power... increasing to 5000m/s you overcome the 55kw and theres 15kw spare and we could go further as it only depends on the turbine configuration..

this is kind of rocket science but a turbine would work perfectly to get this energy efficiently converted

water expand 1800 times when converted to vapor... and some more when converted to hydrogen and oxygen but the vapor contract when get cold to reform water and hydrogen cant do this nor oxygen...



Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2019, 13:36:46 pm
ok from what you have said you have a series circuit, a coil with a DC resistance of  100ohms (dc) and a load of 200ohm resistor.   And 400v assume  this is DC Kirchhoff  ok  total DC resistance in the circuit is 300ohms.
So 400/300 = 1.3amps in the circuit.  So then take the load  200ohms X 1.3 amps = 260V  this is the volts dropped across the load resistor.   Again the coil has a DC resistance of 100ohms so 100 x 1.3 = 130V dropped across the coil.   Load Watts 1.3 x 260 = 338W dissipated in the load. 130v x 1.3 = 169w dissipated in the coil.   
Total watt in the circuit then is 507W.
Now on applying the  400v the coil will take time to for the current to build up to the full current, to get to 63% of the total the time period is noted as T time constant. This is found by the coils inductance L in henneries / DC resistance, this in seconds.  Then multiply this by 5 and the current would then be at its maximum of 1.3amps.
Now if it is AC power then this is a new story
You will need the F, coils reactance yes you said 100ohm reactance and the DC resistance of 100ohms I do not think that would be correct. I mean the DC resistance of 100ohms.
XL =100ohms so the inductance with the frequency of 50hz and 400V
Inductance will be 218.31milli henneries.   Now for a coil to have 100ohms DC resistance for such a small value of inductance I do not think is possible. 
   
 


 R100ohms              L 318.31mH

F50hz

Impedance Z 141.421 Ω

Phase φ    45  degree


So you see there is a lot more in it if it is or has Frequency involved pulse DC is diferent.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2019, 15:36:48 pm
your correct my numbers were a bad example... but that is the idea..

i remembered i have some magnetic wire here but is not insulated.. is a little bit of a problem to wind it up without a varnish or something to get it fixed..

ii think non of most how tried this wires had the knowledge to do any real test with it regarding the efficiency of the magnetic field over it me included ... however i gained some more background and maybe today i can do better

i have done one coil of it long time ago but dindt gave much atention on it because of the huge voltage drop

i think i can give it a try.. i will probably wind it up on a ceramic coil former to handle any heat

simply a primary and the coil as secondary and some real measurements...

i think the mass of iron wire will be important to relate to the power it can handle in terms of magnetic field..

my best guess is that high voltage would be high desirable since it would have lower current and higher mass of wire... but it depends on thickness..

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2019, 15:55:40 pm
all you are gooiing to make is a glorified heater and no use for any think else  what are you tring ro acheive ?  it sound mor like risistance wire that magnic wire  the term magnetic wire is use loosly by some people as winding wire as the term sugests iin a coiill format it make an electro magnetic.   
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2019, 15:59:52 pm
all you are gooiing to make is a glorified heater and no use for any think else  what are you tring ro acheive ?  it sound mor like risistance wire that magnic wire  the term magnetic wire is use loosly by some people as winding wire as the term sugests iin a coiill format it make an electro magnetic.

yes is resistive wire, but its magnetic... nickel iron...

you may be right that its going to be a magnetic heater.. my questioning is how good will it heat and how this energy will reflect to the primary because the wire is magnetic itself .. my hope is to verify that the wire will cancel the magnetic reaction field  with the induced field in the wire magnetic domains..
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2019, 16:03:25 pm
Magnet wire is also called winding wire. There are a number of film insulation types ranging from temperature Class 105 to Class 240. Each film type has its own unique set of characteristics to suit specific needs of the application

Magnet wire shelf life is not established in commercial specifications. As long as the wire has been carefully stored it may be usable for years to come. Bondable wire should not be stored at temperatures exceeding 100°F. Electrolytic tough pitch copper (ETP Copper, UNS C11000) exceeds 99.9% purity and is the most widely used type for magnet wire production. It is intentionally oxygenated (200-400 ppm) to achieve the best combination of conductivity, capacity for being cold worked and economy. MWS can also supply wire made from high purity (99.95%) OFHC Copper (UNS C10200) or Certified (99.99%) OFHC Copper (UNS C10100).
 
nickel iron. is not magnetic it is used for making heater elements  and no a coil of wire no mater what it is made of will have some inductive capacity it is and can be magnatied as it has iron in it so when you form a coil with it it may retain some residual manetic properties.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2019, 16:08:59 pm
i have some different types here that i got from a heat elements factory... they gave me some bobins that were finishing... there may be some left to test.. they stick to a magnet very well

i think is worth the shot just to see how this resistance coils work now that i have some good testing equipments...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2019, 04:08:37 am
i´m starting to think that temperature may be one big factor in hydrogen gas on demand production... after all electrolysis is an endothermic process and so adding heat to it lower the needed energy to achieve separation ..

maybe if its possible to generate the hydrogen and oxygen separetely in a vessel at high temperature and pressure to not allow to boil... than the energy of the pressurized gas can run turbines that convert the pressure and temperature to electricity that is feedback into the system...

there is a lot of energy available here to catch because it only limited to the pressure you can achieve and flow of gas.. it would allow generation of high amount of hydrogen at cheap cost as its regenerating its own electricity from the pressure..

we know that temperature is pure vibration and the higher is the vibration amplitude more far away and close together the base components of matter get... everything hot emits infrared... mirrored surfaces form a cavity ... however water have some different frequencies happening at the same time,

les say we want to produce 1,1kg of hydrogen per hour and that you consume 100w per mole of hydrogen... around 500 moles to get 1kg  so you need around 55kw of consume per hour...

if you take this 1,1kg from around 10 liters of water you have 10kg of mass that is going to be turned into gas expansion plus of course the evaporated water from the heat so lets say in one hour we also evaporate another 10 liters of water....

so you have a mass of 20kg to flow in one hour at the pressure you allow it to get

here is where it gets interesting because is a matter of charging the system up and when it reach the required pressure it will be able to generate its own power or perhaps part of it or maybe even more... depends only on the pressure you allow it to get...

stan has a patent on it called the hydrogen electrical generator or something like..

so here he is not worried about efficiency so much only about making lot of gas with small electrodes and use the product as source of energy

how much power you can generate with 20kg for example...

E=m*g*h so if you would use gravity you could have 200joule for each meter of high

if we use speed it get interesting

E=m*v^2/2
so if the speed is very high (pressurized gas coming out) the energy is high

so 20 kg times a speed of say 100m/s is 100kJ that is equivalent to 27w in one hour but if you increase this speed say 1000m/s you have now 2,777 kw of power... it increase with the square of the velocity of the gas... so you can simply add more mass or more pressure to increase the power... increasing to 5000m/s you overcome the 55kw and theres 15kw spare and we could go further as it only depends on the turbine configuration..

this is kind of rocket science but a turbine would work perfectly to get this energy efficiently converted

water expand 1800 times when converted to vapor... and some more when converted to hydrogen and oxygen but the vapor contract when get cold to reform water and hydrogen cant do this nor oxygen...

if we wereto compare this system with a electrical system... how could we use it to develop energy?

normally pressure is associated with voltage and current to a flow

the mass of the electrons flow is the kinetic energy and the resistance the drag

so if we could add more electrons for the same pressure we would be creating power... is not so simple as it flows it will create a voltage drop and if the circuit is not electrostatic it will create a reaction at the input that will consume power..

we saw in the example that the energy increase with square of the pressure... the thing is how can we speed up this electrons so they can emit more magnetic field than it received?

in a system of pressure you would reduce the holes to get the gas to be ejected at higher speed.. it increase the pressure further however

this would be the equivalent of a transformer as you put more wire it will increase the voltage but reduce the current proportionally...

when we apply the voltage to determined material the speed of the electrons will depend on the amount of free electrons to flow and the crossection of the material.

the greater the resistance the higher is the speed of the electrons so the higher is the dissipation of heat as the energy of the electrons increase with voltage squared.. thats because the electrons keep colliding with atoms and giving off the kinetic energy to heat..

when electrons move at a changing speed however they create an inductive coupling field

at willian barbat patent he describe that he could amplify energy by using low mass electrons to be accelerated to higher speeds and amplify energy in his aparatus...

he basically say that the inductive force (emf) will make the lower mass electrons have a greater acceleration as they have the same charge but lower mass and so will make a greater induction power to exert on other coils in the system ...

also in that patent he says that magnetic field does not consume power as it is perpendicular with the direction of the force..




Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2019, 08:48:16 am
https://www.quora.com/Where-can-I-find-a-table-with-effective-masses-in-metals

https://patents.google.com/patent/US20070007844A1/en

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effective_mass_(solid-state_physics)

(https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-945df6932678cb45a9b2c3605977dca5.webp)
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2019, 13:36:41 pm
i did some work on it on the past and i build a prototype that indeed lighted a 100w lamp dim but it was using an arrangement much like the one you see in the patent regarding the polarities but using ferrite to couple the energy... i tried to mix the barbat patent with the (forgot the name) that guy that tells that the reaction back electromotive force can be deviated to a higher permeability core... so i use a relation of one core to 3 cores..

at the time i had only a pc sound card oscilloscope... lets see today.. luckly i still have this parts

in one core i had one primary and one feedback coil ... than sharing between this same core and another 3 cores a 1 inch thick copper ring made of multiple strand wire soldered as a ring... on the 3 cores than there was a secondary that was connected in series with the feedback coil on the first core and the load that close the circuit among them..

i was pulsing it with a circuit that recovered the feedback called regenerative. it used a second coil on the primary that is connected to a capacitor and a couple of diodes so during pulse off it will charge the capacitor and this capacitor provide the initial power for the pulses.. this makes a shape that is a exponetial decay over the square pulse input...

on the secondary it develops a high current since it have low turns but it cannot be enough to saturate 3 cores since power is coming from 1 ..

the feedback coil had a voltage lower than the secondary on the other side of the ring.. so the secondary voltage was subtracted from the feedback voltage prior to go to the load.. this applied a second voltage on the feedback that supposedly would induce a greater voltage in the ring and subsequently on the secondary and so on;;;.

if my memory dont fail i had it like this

1core
L1 100 turns input 100v
Feedback 100 turns 100v
Ring 1 turn 1v
3 cores
ring 1 turn 1v
Secondary 200 turns  200v (the voltage was actually higher than the transforming factor) had a peak up and down probably because of the high current in the ring

so the load see 100v basically since the secondary will subtract from feedback

fell so clear in mind

now what about a bismuth ring? or superconductor..

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2019, 14:00:42 pm
the basic idea of the barbats patent as you can see in his drawings he state that the primary will induce a current in the amplifier coil and this current will induce a current in opposite direction to the first so it causes no reaction really as its using the reaction electromotive force from the amplifier coil as its emf

in my system i tried to do the same the ring causes a coupling link where the other side is uncoupled from the primary in a sense so they can be joined together to build the feedback.. the feedback would basically reduce the energy input at the primary since the other side is sending energy back to itself thru the ring

the things i was thinking at the time was like if you have a 100w load for example 100v 1 amp the secondary is giving 200v 1 amp to make it happen so the feedback coil is receiving 100v 1 amp and plus we are having another 100w coming from the primary

the idea is if the primary actually reduce more than that

the secret is in the ring, this is where the electrons speed will be magnified.. so perhaps having a ring made of low mass electrons material is just what is needed to be able to amplify the power...

its interesting as the pressure idea to generate the over unity had all to do with the theory behind barbat and his low mass electrons..

 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2019, 14:46:54 pm
https://arxiv.org/abs/1503.04538

https://ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/4065688

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 16, 2019, 22:54:50 pm

this video is just so cool
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2019, 14:13:06 pm
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2019, 20:43:18 pm
Nice!
It runs till the air is out of the bottles?

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2019, 06:15:50 am
dont know yet i think is very interesting,,,

i was studying some acoustics to get rid of some acoustics problems in a small home studio i´m building here to try to get some work and i got faced with again a resonance problem,,

it made me wonder how this could be useful for the water technology understanding and as usual i´m going deep into it

i found that there are different room modes axial tangencial and oblique so a resonant cavity will have different frequencies where its going to resonate depending on the position of the speaker and the room measures..

there are some frequencies that is going to sum and other that will cancel... and for that acoustic treatment is designed, to get rid of the reflections that sustain this standing waves..

its accomplished by using dissipative material that will transform the sound waves in heat.. so the power coming out of the speakers just become heat since what is stop the sound from keep going is the transformation of this displacement of air particles into heat..  but the sound also get destroyed by destructive interference! meaning that when the two waves sum ok they will get twice the amplitude but when they cancel out they simply must disappear. with no heat generated.
(this last part is coming from my understand i didnt read anything to confirm this yet but seems to be the case since the speakers wont heat the room that much without acoustic treatment)
a cube is a resonant cavity and if it has a resonant frequency that is the same in all axis x,y,z this mean that the resonance of the 3 axis combines creating a sound amplitude for this frequency that is much higher than the other frequencies
exiting one mode seems to also trigger the others.,

basically there is 3 standing waves that form one in each axis..

so this got me interested and i started to think

audio range go from meters to centimeters in air.. for example 10khz would be around 3.4 cm

this mean that a box having 3.4 cm measures would resonate at around 10khz and 20khz and so on. and also other frequencies as i mentioned
the second octave creates a pressure node in the center of the box.. so twice the regular resonant cavity of the box it may depend on the speaker position as well

what i mean is that this is the kind of sizes stan used for his things...

i´m wondering if his epg and other stuff was designed to walk on sound waves... in the video of the buggy interview he say that his system needed to compensate for ambient pressure and temperature changes... and this are two things that will take a resonant cavity to deviate from its tuning at standard conditions.

check this room modes calculator online and find out the modes of your rooms... do some tests ... perhaps if we understand the sound waves that are much more audible kkk  we can understand a way to put energy out of water...

further: sound waves are longitudinal and as it creates zones of high pressure and low pressure it may be able to bounce the particles back and forth in a dance

further

3 inches is the wave length of 20khz in water...

 http://www.1728.org/freqwavf.htm

i´m starting to thing that we need magnetic fields or a piezo transducer to play with water more nicely and stimulate and read this resonances of water bros

i wish i had some money to buy some powerful piezos to play and perhaps some to read...

if a magnetic field is present there is movement in the water so the energy can be somehow resonated too..

the plan is a metalic box with the walls insulated from each other forming a resonant tank filled with water that is contained in itself and a small hole for the gas come out....

i need to understand better the properties of this sound waves in tubes for example and how this modes would apply...

but from helmholtz we learn that the stiffness of the air act as a spring and so water not having much stiffness could break?

 
https://hal.archives-ouvertes.fr/hal-01432223/document
 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2019, 07:27:56 am
i see why you are intrested...

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2019, 03:22:04 am
it got me to think

if we could use the resonance to move the particles if they are charged particles it will create an electromagnetic field that could be possibly "collected" or measured

i once had my cell to play like a 2,5khz tone like if it was a tweeter ... i posted somewhere.. i wasnt the stan big cell it was my small acrylic cell and it was loaded with KOH

strangely the reaction only occurred when the starting water was pure and koh was gradually added.. the volume of water was few milliliters so it boils fast...

at the time the dc was from variac and it was pulsed at this frequency i remember that when changing the frequency the sound stops and only return at this frequency

the inside rod is smaller than the tube where it fits in and is solid...

i made some acrylic disks with holes to water to pass and the gas to come out and isolate the water from leaking by using a oring that allow the electical connection on the outside... the electrode also hold the cell together on the other side you can see this on youtube video





Title: the acoustic resonance of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2019, 03:47:51 am
could it get so simple? to simply make the pressure and voltage do the job to get the molecules split economically ? and perhaps also other processes!

i have read somethings about utrasonic resonant chamber that is used to create a cooling machine  so the pressures achieved must be high under resonance!

if we get a high Q factor it will accumulate lots of power in form of vibration instead of become water fog

i´m starting to think that in two ways

we can get the resonance by a mass and a spring

water can be the mass but it should rather be the spring in order to get the advantage (my view)

so if it is the spring what is the mass?

or is the resonance only related to the size? like room mode and just that

some time ago i had to repair a tweeter because i could not afford the change for a new and i simply found a wire with same resistance per number of turns and wound it again and it worked..

it uses a magnet and i think it were 7 turns of wire glued to a aluminum foil in form of tube but not short circuit glued in turn into a movable membrane.. the coil and aluminum tube fit into a magnet

so the mass of the wire must be small to get decent output at high frequency

the piezo is a ceramic that can modify its form when its electrically excited..

its like a little speaker and can cause the type of waves that would resonate the water inside a tube..

i guess as the sound waves are longitudinal it dont really matter the real crossection of water it have to travel to however the lower it is the higher will be the resistance to the flow of water and thereto may give a effect of widen the band width of the cavity

i think that depending of how we build it the tank of the water can become part of the resonance and also the rest of the space in the cell...


twice the frequency is something meyer repeatedly reforced in his dialogues

at the twice the resonance the mode will concentrate the high pressure node in the center of the cavity this may be a key

also other overtones will have the frequency in the middle .. notice that is longitudinally that i mean..

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2019, 09:34:09 am
you are moving now into Keely,s work, Fabio!

Nobody really knew how that techno worked..
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2019, 13:07:40 pm
i guess is one of the things most never tried..

perhaps using this analogy to the speaker will be easier to understand how this can do something for us..

i read a paper about using ultrasonic and electrolysis but i dont remember if it were a resonant cavity and what frequency was.. but it was reported that it increased the rate of electrolysis somehow if i remember well

i´m will try to find some info about keely
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2019, 15:09:50 pm
lets say we get a 4 inch diameter tube fill with 70% water and 30% air on top sealed...

in this case the air  may have s a different impedance than water and should reflect back part of the incoming vibration... we need an air aperture at least to get the gas out so i guess the air portion of the system may made sense to most...

the air pressure would change the air impedance?:

would it change the resonant properties:?  speed of sound? etc?

i dont remember how and where but someone once commented that one of the pieces inside the stan cell was a piezo 
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2019, 22:24:53 pm
i was considering the piezo idea...

i think i found a way to use high voltage and piezo to create the movement we need

you know those lighters that use a piezo to create the spark ?

perhaps we could use a piezo that becomes one electrode that moves and apply field to the water

in a lighter we press and it accumulate the pressure in a spring that is released by a mechanism to allow a fast change in pressure resulting in the high voltage spark

its it correct?

so the piezo if put to vibrate relative to the cell it will be like a sound speaker in a in a room and it will excite the mode of vibration available

i think that the length of the gap perhaps is more important than the gap itself since sound travel longitudinally.. thus the longer the tube the higher will be the resonant frequency of it

i see one interesting thing about this... Stan once said that if you get electric charged particles to move in a electromagnetic field you get energy as result.. and perhaps this is the only way to effectively move the water in a sync with the electrical pulse being applied...

from the drawings i believe he uses overtones of the fundamental frequency to contain the action more inside the tube perhaps...

it seems to me that this hell of movement there inside will at least give some interesting result

i think of construct a cell that has some water in from bottom and but that also have the piezo on the bottom part than the middle electrode is hold from up and there is only a small exit for gas also on the up side.

Title: Re: THE GMS start
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 24, 2019, 04:03:02 am
this is the gms very first start it has a kind of automatic handling of the injector timing to reach the rpm we set by the analog/digital accelerator

still missing linking the acceleration with the max time of the injector but already would work with one injector
missing the output for the other solenoids for air and exhaust

i guess the order for injection should be first air than hydrogen than exhaust or reverse this way there is aways air or exhaust on the line between the hydrogen output making it safe for not having back fire in the cell  (for the case of using the 3 injectors design)

i´m using an analog input interrupt as the rpm counter and the injector triger goes into the digital interrupt (the analog interrupts dont interrupts the external interrupts digital pin one and 2)

there are two ranges of adaption when you change the rpm one that is faster when the difference in rpm is greater than 50 rpm and one that is fine when the rpm is within 5 rpm difference... (it will always happen some difference)

i had to reintegrate the timer to use the millis to better count the rpm but its ok because its working very nicely now since appears that as the signal trigger to the injector comes from the interrupt it dont have any delays or inconsistency in the pulse!

it turns out that if i want to use the arduino nano it will require a safe logic to determine each injector will be firing

the nano having only two interrups can deal only with two injectors trigger directly for more only adding logics

an arduino mega has 4 interrupts  or esp 32 could do everything we want and probably faster

i have a few spare and i plan to get a code for it too as esp32 have as many interrupt as needed

the only side effect is that is 3,3v logic so it require some resistors to work safe with 5 volts logic basically or those level converters not by far a problem
 the esp 32 is multicore aparently too


so as you see i´m doing some advance on the GMS

whos gona test? i dont have a working engine.. nor money to get injectors or other stuff (trying to work on that but is not being easy and probably if the money come my time will go because i´m probably starting a new company that deals with refrigeration systems , when i get funds it will explode! but my investors certainly wont let me work anyelse project for while so i´m focusing now)

if some of you could maybe do a nice donations i could get some of the parts and try doing the tests needed, now i´m 33 and after 13 years working on this i got a lot of energy and knowledge from this time spend but at the same time i didnt focused in making money consistently so at this point of my life i have no money spare.. all i have is a fiat uno 2003 lend from my dad, my test equipments, and work on the streets selling homemade beer to live... also fix some equiments and do some other jobs that appears but is hard getting the end of the month, if werent for my parents surely i could not be here today writing this now. So if any of you feel the value of what we are constructing here, the knowledge that we are developing here feel free to help and be an active part on this at this very special moment because i still have energy and yet time to invest. All this components i have here to work with except for the ones 2 or 3 people send to me i got over the years at the moments that i had some money spare so i converted to components spare becuase i know that when i didnt have the money because spend elsewhere i would not be able to do anything latter with no components.

the link for the donations is in thru this pages and i wont be repeating it everywhere first to not get the risk of losing what i write eventually because there are certain links that simply make everything i wrote disappear and to not disturb the discussion. So if you please want to donate go back thru this pages, read the content and if you feel you can please help... every dollar or euro is more than 4 reais.... and everything we buy from outside here cost up to 4 times what cost for you there not taking account the conversion! So if you want to send me injectors, or whatever you have that you feel it could help me just give me a message and  i send you the address coordinates for the mail.


unsigned long newtime=0;

// inputs

int accel = A0;   // analog/digital accelerator signal
int pressure = A1;
int clocksignal = 3; // //input interrupt 1 / pin 3
int injector = 13;  // injector output
int rpmreadpin= A2;

unsigned int rpmread = 0;
int rpmset = 0; // rpm determined by analog/digital accelerator
String state;

float injectiontime = 5; //ms  injection timming
float timeincrement = 0.001;
float timedecrement = 0.001;
int mininjectiontime = 1;
float maxinjectiontime=10;
int maxrpmset=6000;
int minrpmset=1000;
int stable=50;
int finestable=5;
float finetimeincrement = 0.00001;
float finetimedecrement = 0.00001;

volatile unsigned int newPos;
volatile unsigned int count=0; // analog2 interrupt rotine counter rpm read signal
bool rpmstate=0;
bool lastrpmstate=1;

volatile int clockcount;
int lastclockcount;

int avecount;
int average1;
int average2;
int average3;
int average4;


void setup() {
  DDRB |= 0B00100000;  // pinMode(injector, OUTPUT); pin 13
  Serial.begin(9600);
  pinMode(clocksignal, INPUT_PULLUP);//d3
  pinMode(rpmreadpin, INPUT);//A2

//cli();
//TIMSK0 &= ~(1 << TOIE0);  // disble timer
//sei();

PCICR |= (1 << PCIE1);    // This enables Pin Change Interrupt 1 that covers the Analog input pins or Port C.
PCMSK1 |= (1 << PCINT10) | (1 << PCINT11);  // This enables the interrupt for pin 2 and 3 of Port C.

attachInterrupt(1, INJECTION, RISING);
  }

ISR(PCINT1_vect) {
count++;
}

void loop() {
 rpmset=constrain((analogRead(accel)*6),minrpmset ,maxrpmset);   // rpm determined by analog/digital accelerator

 if (rpmset > (rpmread + stable)) {
  state="Accelerating" ;  // injection time increase
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime+timeincrement),1,10);
  } else if ( rpmset < (rpmread-stable)) {
  state="Deaccelerating"; // injection time reduce
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime-timedecrement),mininjectiontime,maxinjectiontime); 
  } else {
    state="Stable";
    if (rpmset > (rpmread + finestable)) {
  state="fineAccelerating" ;  // injection time increase
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime+timeincrement),1,10);
  } else if ( rpmset < (rpmread-finestable)) {
  state="fineDeaccelerating"; // injection time reduce
  injectiontime=constrain((injectiontime-timedecrement),mininjectiontime,maxinjectiontime);
  }

  }
if (millis() > newtime+500 ){
  newtime=millis();
   rpmread=count*12;
avecount++;
if (avecount == 1)average1=rpmread;
if (avecount == 2 )average2=rpmread;
if (avecount == 3 )average3=rpmread;
if (avecount == 4 ){
  average4=rpmread;
  avecount=0;
}
rpmread=(average1+average2+average3+average4)/4;
printcallback() ;
count=0;
}
}

void INJECTION() {  //interrupt routine
   PORTB |= 0B00100000;   //digitalWrite(injector, HIGH);
   delayMicroseconds(injectiontime*1000);
   PORTB &= 0B11011111;   // digitalWrite(injector, LOW);

}
void printcallback() {
 Serial.print("Accelerator  ");
Serial.print(rpmset);
Serial.println(" RPM SET");
Serial.print("Injection Time ");
Serial.print(injectiontime);
//Serial.print(injectiontime);
Serial.println(" miliseconds");
Serial.print(rpmread);
Serial.println(" RPM Measured ");
Serial.println(state);
}

quoting myself
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 24, 2019, 07:30:22 am
It's late and i barely read your post, it will be this weekend before I can thouraly read it. Can you please sum it up briefly until this weekend. It caught my interest tonight as I'm quickly checking the site.

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 24, 2019, 07:35:04 am
I think the fuel should remain the same. I think it is other factors that should be changed like for example theixture just before the injectors.
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 24, 2019, 11:20:12 am
Im getting back to work on this code... we were discussing it last year about it around 25 august..

my idea with it was to create a kind of digital GMS ...  i bought a engine generator last year to play with it but lack of money and all things going bad made me left it at side while i worked to pay the generator..

today i have a new energy new health and so im gona make it now certainly!

My idea of the GMS is a system that will first control the generation of gas on demand

so first we need a pressure sensor that will govern allong with the accelerator pedal and rpm sensor if the rate of production of gas is adequate

for example if the pressure is droping it will increase the gate time to produce more gas...

the accelerator i designed as a rpm control, if you press the pedal it will do whatever it takes to increase the rpm like increasing the gas mixture and producing more gas etc if the pedal is bellow a certain rpm set it will cut the gas like in a normal engine...  engine generators wont have much of need as wont have engine on breaking like when you going down a hill with your car..

the gms is needed to know what hell is going in the generator directly on the oscilloscope... since if we start with a system that maintain fix rpm (digitaly ) when we change the gas parameters like exite the gas , the system will clearly show a decrease in injection time for example, if theory is correct!

i build two systems for initial tests... one frequency generator and the injector control...

still miss all other stuf...

 

 
Title: Hydrogen/Oxygen Split Generator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 08, 2020, 20:58:18 pm
Hello

Im working this days of covid19 pandemic into a project for mechanical breathing units and a oxygen generator bases on a design i show recently last year here..

im going to share with you my 3d drawings and a link for anyone willing to donate. i used my new website for the files and donations..

I have designed recently some irrigation automation products to sell and this pandemic arrived right over my head and i only sold 2 units..

the website still in Portuguese but anyone can find how to donate with paypal.. sebosfato@gmail.com or at the website..

https://a360.co/2Xl1kTB
this link is for the fusion 360 file download of last version

and this exported versions...
www.gardentoy.com.br/Downloads/separador-oxigenio-v11.f3d
www.gardentoy.com.br/Downloads/separador-oxigenio-v11.stl

the idea is to use 10 of this modules in series with 22 amps each to get 1 liter of oxygen per minute at least..

about the forced ventilation im planing to use a small air compressor controlled by an arduino connected to a flow and pressure sensor to control the cycle while having a peep valve to limit the pressure going to the lungs and a unidirectional T to allow the expiration to go out thru a HEPA filter...

https://gardentoy.com.br/doesalvevidas/

my WhatsApp number +5511 982807111

Best Regards to you All and hope we make it!

Big hug from Brazil

Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 09, 2020, 16:32:38 pm
Good work, Fabio!
I hope you can help some people out with your contribution!

Steve
Title: Re: Retry N1001
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 13, 2020, 14:18:19 pm
Let's hope so Steve... is a time of trouble..