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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Steve on March 16, 2018, 12:21:24 pm

Title: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2018, 12:21:24 pm
Here are some videos of  a college tester builder. Is he right?
Any idea what his setup looks like?

update:

My Circuit is just a Dave Lawtons Phase Locked Loop (PLL) Circuit with a 240 Volt Variac Transformer, a 600 Volt SDR943-61 rectifier, a H11D1 Optocoupler with a 100 Ohm 25W Resistor and a C38M SCR connected to a a 8XA Choke with a 1N1188 Blocking Diode. . Every cubic foot of water contains 1,376 cubic feet of Hydrogen & 680 cubic feet of Oxygen. 12Volts at 0.5Amps =6W(Watts) & produces 8 Liters of HHO/Minute. Stanley Meyer states WATER is 2.5 times more explosive than Petrol, so a V8 4.7 L/100 Kilometers requires only 1.88 L/100 K of WATER = 2,586.88 L of Hydrogen. 43.11 L Hydrogen/Minute = 33W. . http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/electrolysers/dave-lawton/dave-lawton-pll-built-pcb.html Courtiestown in the UK no longer exists... So you can no longer buy any of the Dave Lawton Kits...



cheers
Steve
Title: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2018, 12:24:05 pm






Title: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2018, 17:04:23 pm
He uses:
2 pieces in series of the http://www.pertronix.com/prod/ig/flame/coils/50000_volt.aspx
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2018, 18:18:18 pm
Update:
My Circuit is just a Dave Lawtons Phase Locked Loop (PLL) Circuit with a 240 Volt Variac Transformer, a 600 Volt SDR943-61 rectifier, a H11D1 Optocoupler with a 100 Ohm 25W Resistor and a C38M SCR connected to a a 8XA Choke with a 1N1188 Blocking Diode. . Every cubic foot of water contains 1,376 cubic feet of Hydrogen & 680 cubic feet of Oxygen. 12Volts at 0.5Amps =6W(Watts) & produces 8 Liters of HHO/Minute. Stanley Meyer states WATER is 2.5 times more explosive than Petrol, so a V8 4.7 L/100 Kilometers requires only 1.88 L/100 K of WATER = 2,586.88 L of Hydrogen. 43.11 L Hydrogen/Minute = 33W. . http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/electrolysers/dave-lawton/dave-lawton-pll-built-pcb.html Courtiestown in the UK no longer exists... So you can no longer buy any of the Dave Lawton Kits...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2018, 20:24:53 pm
My drawing of what i understood of all available info.....
Any comments????

Thanks!!!!
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2018, 13:12:51 pm
Hello Steve.
Where did you saw the 6w producing 8 LPM?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2018, 19:33:14 pm
Hello Steve.
Where did you saw the 6w producing 8 LPM?
Hi Xblade,

Its written in his youtube profile.
On the ' about' tab. His last profile tab.


cheers
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2018, 19:35:52 pm
for me, it seems a bit wierd having a choke in parallel with the cell... ??? :o
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2018, 20:20:21 pm
. http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/electrolysers/dave-lawton/dave-lawton-pll-built-pcb.html Courtiestown in the UK no longer exists... So you can no longer buy any of the Dave Lawton Kits...

you can no longer buy these because Dave Lawton can no longer SELL these .   no one wants them , what for ?   

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2018, 20:46:14 pm
. http://www.courtiestown.co.uk/electrolysers/dave-lawton/dave-lawton-pll-built-pcb.html Courtiestown in the UK no longer exists... So you can no longer buy any of the Dave Lawton Kits...

you can no longer buy these because Dave Lawton can no longer SELL these .   no one wants them , what for ?

Well, in case of an crisis, we always can make one or two..... ;)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 19, 2018, 23:26:52 pm
This guy doesnt show any proof of what he claims.
There are a lot of scam in this area.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2018, 03:28:08 am
That circuit will not work. The dummy is trying to prove his theory, but doesn't understand the electronics behind doing it correctly.  Also, I have done it as he explains. But you are not going to get around not using any amps to break the water down, and neither is he. And if Im Stan Meyer I could twist it around and claim i'm just using voltage to break the water down. If you want to get technical.

It is more about making the correct gas and what you do with that gas. Massive amounts are not needed.


             
 
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2018, 13:45:59 pm
Hi Hardkrome,

Your reaction was the same as mine, in the beginning. The way the dude talks doesnot give any confidence. But after really listening to him, explaining the coil capacitor voltage current story,  he made more sense to me.
You know, in the past, i used the power from the waterfuelcell to power the primary of my alternator.
That much power came of my cell.
But i never tried to hit the cell with Bemf pulses of high voltage and then trying to short the cell out with a bulb.....
Stan always stated that you can use the watercell as a source of electrons.......100kw he even mentioned once....

Just my thoughts
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2018, 21:09:41 pm
Hi Steve.

Are you using ss wire, or just going with a smaller gauge for the bifilar resistance?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2018, 21:11:30 pm

Stan always stated that you can use the watercell as a source of electrons.



the atom is the source of the free electron .  >  the atom of a conductor   > every conductor
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2018, 21:47:24 pm
Hi Steve.

Are you using ss wire, or just going with a smaller gauge for the bifilar resistance?

I dont have ss wire and i never used it in my coils....
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2018, 08:34:30 am
Does anybody try to replicate this mans work?

Steve
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2018, 14:13:10 pm
His configuration does not make much sense to me.
I am still on the research but at the time my scope has gone, and I dont know if I can fix it.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2018, 19:22:56 pm
His configuration does not make much sense to me.
I am still on the research but at the time my scope has gone, and I dont know if I can fix it.

Can you use the microphone input of your computer as scope?
His setup is shooting a pulse into the cell and then extract to power out of the cell, in the hope it takes more electrons out of the cell then he put in.....
At least, thats my gues....
In which country are you, btw?

cheers!
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2018, 23:57:03 pm
I read a patent which said that Meyer's system is too technically difficult to be practical , due to frequently changing parameters.  "Therefor", the patent said, "all that is needed is Tesla's bifilar pancake coil and a spark gap."

It'a been shown that Tesla's coil can have two discrete layers and still function accordingly.  All the nXA coils are is just a linear extension of Tesla's concept.  So the provided circuit should work, under the patent or not.

But I agree that the important part is what we do with the gas.  Meyer pumped all of the thermal electrons out of the gas, then kept using the applied electrical vibrations to continue heating the oxygen nuclei.  When these particles get hot enough, an electron or two can be knocked out of the nucleus by an impact, causing a transmutation producing Freon or Helium, and a considerable amount of heat.

No matter how we get the hho, we need to pump thermal electrons.  I'm going to start with my T-spark electrodes, two of which melted on the end, pulling thermal electrons from the third, much cooler wire.  (This was at 500 miliamps,  which is less than one Amp of normal heating current.)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 02, 2018, 13:38:09 pm
I read a patent which said that Meyer's system is too technically difficult to be practical , due to frequently changing parameters.  "Therefor", the patent said, "all that is needed is Tesla's bifilar pancake coil and a spark gap."

It'a been shown that Tesla's coil can have two discrete layers and still function accordingly.  All the nXA coils are is just a linear extension of Tesla's concept.  So the provided circuit should work, under the patent or not.

But I agree that the important part is what we do with the gas.  Meyer pumped all of the thermal electrons out of the gas, then kept using the applied electrical vibrations to continue heating the oxygen nuclei.  When these particles get hot enough, an electron or two can be knocked out of the nucleus by an impact, causing a transmutation producing Freon or Helium, and a considerable amount of heat.

No matter how we get the hho, we need to pump thermal electrons.  I'm going to start with my T-spark electrodes, two of which melted on the end, pulling thermal electrons from the third, much cooler wire.  (This was at 500 miliamps,  which is less than one Amp of normal heating current.)

Maybe i dont understand the term thermal electrons, but ill guess that the knocking off electrons system of Meyer was voltage field based, whatever he ment with that.
The dude of these videos in this topic explains it on his own way by stating that the high voltage pulses were short pulses that just hit the bloch wall of water molecules before the electrolysis starts. We all know that gas takes a while to develope after putting a current on the electrodes. It would create a situation where electrons are attracted towards the bloch wall and if you short the two electrodes after those pulses, you can pull the freed electrons out of the cell. Keep on doing so, and you see much more gas being produced then as with normal electrolysis.....

Happy Eastern, everybody!

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 04, 2018, 00:14:26 am
What is the gas ?

how many electrons does the Oxy atom have in its outer shell ?

theres never been any study of those basics surrounding the end product . any study of Meyers ? nope!!

we have all done the experiment that establishes that Ox wants the outer shell full  , if its not full then its clamping down on the nearest atom .
if a power supply is drawn on then it can only be drawn on until depleted .  a battery is full of conductor material .
if it were a solid block of copper it has the potential to be an electron supply , every atom has a free electron
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 04, 2018, 11:13:36 am
The big problem behind this kind of technology is there a lot of "theorists".
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 05, 2018, 20:06:48 pm
That was John Worell Keely who said that elemental transmutation can be facilitated by adjusting the temperature of the nuclei.  What Meyer said was that, without the electrons to carry off the heat, the Oxygen is processed until it gets hot enough for the nucleus to emit an electron, which causes the Oxygen to disappear.  This describes a weak force interaction, and this type of reaction (eg:LENR) releases 100,000 times as much energy as a chemical reaction involving the same amount of mass.

Various people have run the numbers and concluded that Stan was using an infintessimal amount of Hydrogen.  So the energy to power the buggy must have come from what he called cold fusion.  That's what we should be looking at.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 17, 2018, 06:10:31 am
In this video Stan discusses energy from Hydrogen so it's not the same thing as the Oxygen from his cold fusion patent.  The thing I liked was the rubber band analogy, where stretching it causes it to heat up, the same as the electron bonds.  I know this heating does happen because of the way epoxy heats up severely when stirred just before it cures.  The wfc stays cool and that proves the electron extraction circuit is working.  There is a lot of sub quantum energy available from Hydrogen, and when released, this energy is replenished by the sun.
 
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 17, 2018, 21:43:14 pm
i agree....

Look what this man is doing with his electron extraction setup.
I downloaded it from youtube...
Its actually amazing....

Steve
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2018, 00:21:31 am
well i got some time to check it out anyone interested in giving me a circuit diagram?  not clear on a couple of things, back of napkin stuff
kb
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2018, 04:33:22 am
That's a really good video, Steve; thanks for posting it.

He says the generator puts out 18 Volts, so the rectified pulses from one of the phases is passed through the MOT's primary, to feed the cell.  (May as well use a battery charger for testing) .  The part I don't get is how a 10 times step-up transformer can fire a spark plug with 18 V. on the primary?  Perhaps a really close spark gap.  And there's no hv diode, BUT the MOT's secondary circuit is a closed loop.  Firing the spark plug may affect the transformer's operation momentarily, but no hv is going to the cell.

The wire coming straight down to the top of the cell allows the wire's magnetic field to pull the bubbles inwards as they rise.  This likely causes the cell to output at least some amount of the less energetic Orthohydrogen.  That's good for bonding with turpentine vapor, but alternate wiring approach angles might be advisable.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2018, 06:22:01 am
Another issue I have with his 18 V. claim is that the light bulb is rated for mains voltage.  With capacitive coupling, the bulb is only getting what is fed to the tubes. His generator is a modified washing machine motor and is probably putting out 250 Volts.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2018, 14:11:41 pm
You are right here.
I tried this for a first test and there is no way you get the primary coil charged with pulsed 18 or even 32 volts...

But still, the setup has something similar to Bob Boys system.
The magnet pulses of the secondairy after the spark, you find back on the primary .
So, pulsed dc with spikes....
I am somehow sure that the dude of that video must also have a video of him modifying that alternator.
Otherwise my suggetion is to go modify the primary of that MOT with less windings, so it can handle the higher frequencys and lower input voltage.....

cheers


Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2018, 14:17:46 pm
ok, i had some minutes left to go thru his channel.



800 volt ac at 1 khz
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2018, 14:21:54 pm
other video

300v ac at 340hz

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2018, 21:01:29 pm
Thank you for the posting!
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 25, 2018, 21:39:30 pm
Thank you for the posting!

You are so welcome... ;)
Nice to see you back here...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........(USB Step Charging Relay)
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2018, 19:39:21 pm
After watching the MOT spark gap videos I decided to see if just the voltage spikes can produce bubbles.  So I wired up a little 6V relay as a buzzer, then powered it with a usb lighter plug and connected it to one of my cells.  No bubbles, but I went ahead and took some readings.

With my meter across the cell the voltage was jumping all over, from a few tenths to a few volts.  I concluded the cell was charging, but then relaxing before the next pulse.  So I'll try increasing the frequency of the buzzer.

After every test I was still reading about a quarter of a volt across the cell, even after 24 hours.  Leaving the meter connected slowly drained the charge after an hour.  And I could get a fluctuating reading with only one probe to the cell (either polarity), even with the probe wire within a couple of inches.  So these inductive spikes do produce a Radiant effect.  It's interesting that this happens with either polarity, not with just the positive spikes.

I put a diode on it to see if I could get more than .24 resting volts and that immediately went to a full volt just as the USB plug burned out.  When I switched over to some D cells driving the relay, I noticed that I could get a pretty good shock off of it from time to time, without a corresponding reading on the meter.  So there must be some static charge building up, in addition to the dc.  This effect was intermittent, but will likely become predominate with a higher frequency.

And I'm going to try the MOT spark gap circuit, powered with normal AC, with and without the oven's emi filter.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2018, 17:14:01 pm
For your info, soon i willdo the MOT setup replication as well...Good work and i like the theory as well....

Did some reading:

The charge of a proton is equal to e = 1.602x10-19 C. The charge of an electron is the negative of that.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2018, 17:17:32 pm
http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py106/Charge.html

Electric charge and Coulomb's law
7-6-99

Charge
there are two kinds of charge, positive and negative
like charges repel, unlike charges attract
positive charge comes from having more protons than electrons; negative charge comes from having more electrons than protons
charge is quantized, meaning that charge comes in integer multiples of the elementary charge e
charge is conserved
Probably everyone is familiar with the first three concepts, but what does it mean for charge to be quantized? Charge comes in multiples of an indivisible unit of charge, represented by the letter e. In other words, charge comes in multiples of the charge on the electron or the proton. These things have the same size charge, but the sign is different. A proton has a charge of +e, while an electron has a charge of -e.

Electrons and protons are not the only things that carry charge. Other particles (positrons, for example) also carry charge in multiples of the electronic charge. Those are not going to be discussed, for the most part, in this course, however.

Putting "charge is quantized" in terms of an equation, we say:

q = n e

q is the symbol used to represent charge, while n is a positive or negative integer, and e is the electronic charge, 1.60 x 10-19 Coulombs.

The Law of Conservation of Charge
The Law of conservation of charge states that the net charge of an isolated system remains constant.

If a system starts out with an equal number of positive and negative charges, thereıs nothing we can do to create an excess of one kind of charge in that system unless we bring in charge from outside the system (or remove some charge from the system). Likewise, if something starts out with a certain net charge, say +100 e, it will always have +100 e unless it is allowed to interact with something external to it.

Charge can be created and destroyed, but only in positive-negative pairs.

Table of elementary particle masses and charges:



Electrostatic charging
Forces between two electrically-charged objects can be extremely large. Most things are electrically neutral; they have equal amounts of positive and negative charge. If this wasnıt the case, the world we live in would be a much stranger place. We also have a lot of control over how things get charged. This is because we can choose the appropriate material to use in a given situation.

Metals are good conductors of electric charge, while plastics, wood, and rubber are not. Theyıre called insulators. Charge does not flow nearly as easily through insulators as it does through conductors, which is why wires you plug into a wall socket are covered with a protective rubber coating. Charge flows along the wire, but not through the coating to you.

Materials are divided into three categories, depending on how easily they will allow charge (i.e., electrons) to flow along them. These are:

conductors - metals, for example
semi-conductors - silicon is a good example
insulators - rubber, wood, plastic for example
Most materials are either conductors or insulators. The difference between them is that in conductors, the outermost electrons in the atoms are so loosely bound to their atoms that theyıre free to travel around. In insulators, on the other hand, the electrons are much more tightly bound to the atoms, and are not free to flow. Semi-conductors are a very useful intermediate class, not as conductive as metals but considerably more conductive than insulators. By adding certain impurities to semi-conductors in the appropriate concentrations the conductivity can be well-controlled.

There are three ways that objects can be given a net charge. These are:

Charging by friction - this is useful for charging insulators. If you rub one material with another (say, a plastic ruler with a piece of paper towel), electrons have a tendency to be transferred from one material to the other. For example, rubbing glass with silk or saran wrap generally leaves the glass with a positive charge; rubbing PVC rod with fur generally gives the rod a negative charge.
Charging by conduction - useful for charging metals and other conductors. If a charged object touches a conductor, some charge will be transferred between the object and the conductor, charging the conductor with the same sign as the charge on the object.
Charging by induction - also useful for charging metals and other conductors. Again, a charged object is used, but this time it is only brought close to the conductor, and does not touch it. If the conductor is connected to ground (ground is basically anything neutral that can give up electrons to, or take electrons from, an object), electrons will either flow on to it or away from it. When the ground connection is removed , the conductor will have a charge opposite in sign to that of the charged object.
An example of induction using a negatively charged object and an initially-uncharged conductor (for example, a metal ball on a plastic handle).

(1) bring the negatively-charged object close to, but not touching, the conductor. Electrons on the conductor will be repelled from the area nearest the charged object.

(2) connect the conductor to ground. The electrons on the conductor want to get as far away from the negatively-charged object as possible, so some of them flow to ground.

(3) remove the ground connection. This leaves the conductor with a deficit of electrons.

(4) remove the charged object. The conductor is now positively charged.

A practical application involving the transfer of charge is in how laser printers and photocopiers work.

Why is static electricity more apparent in winter?
You notice static electricity much more in winter (with clothes in a dryer, or taking a sweater off, or getting a shock when you touch something after walking on carpet) than in summer because the air is much drier in winter than summer. Dry air is a relatively good electrical insulator, so if something is charged the charge tends to stay. In more humid conditions, such as you find on a typical summer day, water molecules, which are polarized, can quickly remove charge from a charged object.

Try this at home
See if you can charge something at home using friction. I got good results by rubbing a Bic pen with a piece of paper towel. To test the charge, you can use a narrow stream of water from a faucet; if the object attracts the stream when it's brought close, you know it's charged. All you need to do is to find something to rub - try anything made out of hard plastic or rubber. You also need to find something to rub the object with - potential candidates are things like paper towel, wool, silk, and saran wrap or other plastic.

Coulomb's law
The force exerted by one charge q on another charge Q is given by Coulomb's law:



r is the distance between the charges.

Remember that force is a vector, so when more than one charge exerts a force on another charge, the net force on that charge is the vector sum of the individual forces. Remember, too, that charges of the same sign exert repulsive forces on one another, while charges of opposite sign attract.

An example
Four charges are arranged in a square with sides of length 2.5 cm. The two charges in the top right and bottom left corners are +3.0 x 10-6 C. The charges in the other two corners are -3.0 x 10-6 C. What is the net force exerted on the charge in the top right corner by the other three charges?



To solve any problem like this, the simplest thing to do is to draw a good diagram showing the forces acting on the charge. You should also let your diagram handle your signs for you. Force is a vector, and any time you have a minus sign associated with a vector all it does is tell you about the direction of the vector. If you have the arrows giving you the direction on your diagram, you can just drop any signs that come out of the equation for Coulomb's law.

Consider the forces exerted on the charge in the top right by the other three:



You have to be very careful to add these forces as vectors to get the net force. In this problem we can take advantage of the symmetry, and combine the forces from charges 2 and 4 into a force along the diagonal (opposite to the force from charge 3) of magnitude 183.1 N. When this is combined with the 64.7 N force in the opposite direction, the result is a net force of 118 N pointing along the diagonal of the square.



The symmetry here makes things a little easier. If it wasn't so symmetric, all you'd have to do is split the vectors up in to x and y components, add them to find the x and y components of the net force, and then calculate the magnitude and direction of the net force from the components. Example 16-4 in the textbook shows this process.

The parallel between gravity and electrostatics
An electric field describes how an electric charge affects the region around it. It's a powerful concept, because it allows you to determine ahead of time how a charge will be affected if it is brought into the region. Many people have trouble with the concept of a field, though, because it's something that's hard to get a real feel for. The fact is, though, that you're already familiar with a field. We've talked about gravity, and we've even used a gravitational field; we just didn't call it a field.

When talking about gravity, we got into the (probably bad) habit of calling g "the acceleration due to gravity". It's more accurate to call g the gravitational field produced by the Earth at the surface of the Earth. If you understand gravity you can understand electric forces and fields because the equations that govern both have the same form.

The gravitational force between two masses (m and M) separated by a distance r is given by Newton's law of universal gravitation:



A similar equation applies to the force between two charges (q and Q) separated by a distance r:



The force equations are similar, so the behavior of interacting masses is similar to that of interacting charges, and similar analysis methods can be used. The main difference is that gravitational forces are always attractive, while electrostatic forces can be attractive or repulsive. The charge (q or Q) plays the same role in the electrostatic case that the mass (m or M) plays in the case of the gravity.

A good example of a question involving two interacting masses is a projectile motion problem, where there is one mass m, the projectile, interacting with a much larger mass M, the Earth. If we throw the projectile (at some random launch angle) off a 40-meter-high cliff, the force on the projectile is given by:

F = mg

This is the same equation as the more complicated equation above, with G, M, and the radius of the Earth, squared, incorporated into g, the gravitational field.

So, you've seen a field before, in the form of g. Electric fields operate in a similar way. An equivalent electrostatics problem is to launch a charge q (again, at some random angle) into a uniform electric field E, as we did for m in the Earth's gravitational field g. The force on the charge is given by F = qE, the same way the force on the mass m is given by F = mg.

We can extend the parallel between gravity and electrostatics to energy, but we'll deal with that later. The bottom line is that if you can do projectile motion questions using gravity, you should be able to do them using electrostatics. In some cases, youıll need to apply both; in other cases one force will be so much larger than the other that you can ignore one (generally if you can ignore one, it'll be the gravitational force).
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2018, 18:23:56 pm
The million dollar question is what happens when we hit the electrode with a hv puls......
Are we able to create such an inbalance between the added electrons and the balanced watermolecules?
Is it not somekind of creating a path for the flow of current?
And did Meyer not stated that the economical way of breaking down the watermolecule is to overcome the attraction force from the oxygen atom towards the electron of the hydrogen atom?
13.4eV?
I am still thinking on how his mechanisme works....
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2018, 18:25:57 pm
for sure,  the hv will align the watermolecule because of his polarisation....
Whats the second stage?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2018, 18:34:35 pm
Second stage is that mother natur try,s to stabilize the new situation? More electrons means somehow natur will find protons? Protons from the watermolecules?
Or the added electrons will leak out to ground or air or whatever is in contact with the electrode and electrical circuit?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2018, 21:47:44 pm
OK, I'll try using something which is higher than 13.4 V, rather than lower.

The static on the plates is what polarizes the molecules.  Producing this static takes some amount of current.  If the current going to the cell exceeds this amount, the molecules will start moving, which is not what we want.


After the molecules are polarized, the second stage is to jerk the electrons repeatedly, to move them further and further from their molecule, until they are pulled free and the molecule breaks apart.  Apparently, the applied pulses take care of both stages - charging the plates and jerking on the electrons.

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2018, 00:22:09 am
is it not like charging 1 plate and removing charge from the other one?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2018, 04:26:59 am
is it not like charging 1 plate and removing charge from the other one?

That's how it seems to me.  And this does require current.  But we don't want current going THROUGH the cell; that would result in normal electrolysis.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........(USB Step Charging Relay)
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2018, 05:15:48 am

What your talking about. ( It does not matter if the water has electrolyte in it either, at resonance the capacitor that is hooked up to the cell will maintain its charge across the cell!. ) 
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235171659_Pulsed_DC_and_Anode_Depolarization_in_Water_Electrolysis_for_Hydrogen_Generation

I didn't think I had a capacitor across the cell, but after thinking about what you said, I finally recognized that the relay's tuning cap is, in fact across the cell when the relay is off, due to the way the buzzer is wired up.  When I pulled the cap, I lost all the jitter and also the residual voltage.  All that was coming from the cap, not the cell.  Thanks for helping me sort it out.

And the meter wire picking up the signal proximately was a case of inductive coupling, not an electroradiant effect.  The inductive spikes are not "radiant spikes".
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2018, 11:25:46 am
My 2 cents for part of the proces...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2018, 11:30:27 am
Hardkrome, is your theory that you present again and again, by use of resonance a hv pulse, till the pulse dies?
Is it that?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 07, 2018, 08:19:34 am
This is not theory. Its a DC resonant charging circuit. However, there are about a half dozen other things that are hidden. So, I do not have to be concerned about the gold diggers and companies trolling this thread for new ideas they can capitalize on.






Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 07, 2018, 14:34:50 pm
not sure if that is still the case.... ;)
I see just some lone crusaders hangen in... ;)

Ok. What is phase 3? How does that look like?
I think we can learn from Puharich s patents.
The Electron extraction trick.....
Its to remove to charged wall of electrons, see picture.
When removed, back to phase 1?

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2018, 05:35:25 am
Right, electron extraction is phase 3.  It seems to me that this has to be accomplished with a single wire circuit.  Otherwise, with a complete loop electrons would be put back in, behind those which are pulled out.  Inductive spikes can place a charge deficit on a cap connected with just one wire.  So, when the flip flop switch shifts the pulse train from charging the cell to extracting the freed electrons, perhaps the other cell wire needs to be broken, momentarily?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 10, 2018, 08:04:22 am
depending in the switching frequency, we can choose between mosfets or relais....
The video is showing no switching at all towards the eec....
So much to learn..
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 10, 2018, 19:20:04 pm
Stan's various patents show a variety of ways to do it, including unbroken pulse trains, even constantly increasing spacing between pulses.  The steep leading edge seems to be the consistent factor.  Semiconductors and relays can both produce square waves.  I have little confidence in semiconductors.  The kind of energy I like to use always frys them.  So I spent a lot of time watching relay videos.  But they just don't work for me.  I can build a simple inverter circuit, but as soon as I connect the transformer, the relay stops working.  No matter how big the relay or how small the transformer.  It just doesn't work for me.  No matter what I try, I can't see a way forwards.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 10, 2018, 21:27:59 pm
maybe i'm missing something, where is the switching taking place here?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 10, 2018, 22:16:18 pm
There's an interval during which the step charging pulses to the cell are stopped, to allow the water molecules to 'relax', or self discharge, so they can be step charged again.  During this interval, the pulses are switched to the lightbulb which is part of the electron extraction circuit.  This keeps the cell from heating up, due to the "stretched rubber band" analogy Stan uses in the video.  Electrons which are pulled free are hot (according to Stan) and must be pulled out of the water, to keep the cell cool. He did this by switching the sharp inductive pulses to the light bulb , momentarily.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 10, 2018, 23:23:34 pm
One thing I'm having trouble with is the term 'voltage intensify'.  Stan said that when the outputs from the chokes are combined, the frequency doubles.  (Steve verified this on his scope.). Does this mean the voltage is intensified, just by adding more pulses?  I always thought intensify means increase, as if two pulses were stacked on top of each other.  Doubling the amplitude sharpens the leading edge.  Maybe there's another step which Stan left out on purpose, to pull the extra pulses back, to align them with the original pulses, while keeping the frequency the same?  Or is the intensifying simply caused by sending the pulses through an inductor, with the accompanying voltage increase?  Or would stacking the pulses produce Ed Gray's over/under waveform - a signal which rises and falls, while maintaining  a constant potential difference of at least 13.4 V?  (Shaking the static.)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 11, 2018, 19:12:26 pm
Is good to know you are working on it my friends.

i´m here in brasil still struggling to pay my bills, and dealing with my dad with terminal cancer.. i´m very sorry to not being able to keep doing tests lately..

I´m trying to read and catching up this post info...

 my later theories some of i still want to test tell me one thing

1 meyer didnt used the coils to restrict the amps they were there for create the voltage  intensification by collapse.. when a coil collapse unrestrictedly all the energy is dumped at once
2 he used barium titanate to get the at least one of his electrodes coated.. or he had a external capacitor for it very high dielectric with high resistance...
3  his cell was very well insulated from ground allowing to grow high voltage potential relative to ground

In my mere opinion what meyer did was indeed like what he said he charged the cell with dc but giving a high voltage periodic reverse pulse after each positive pulse.. this pulses must cause the resonance on the water molecule making the electrons to momentarily rearrange the molecule to a lower energy state.. meyer says he basicaly disrupt the equilibrium of the water molecule by not having enough electrons...
well what i can tell you about this is that is not possible to extract electrons from there unless some gas is going out missing electrons... this tells us is not only a electronic but also a dynamic system.. pretty much like the faraday thunderstorm generator
imagine this sequence positive allign the molecule oxygen near the electrode and reverse negative pulse shake its electrons...
to be able to extract any electrons from the water the electrons must be at a potential where they are reppeled from the bath so it need to be at negative high voltage... this would make the electrons go down the line..

i believe meyer have used 99% duty cycle and air core instead of 50% somehow this allow for the increase in the voltage according to the techbrieth

today we get a new power tool that i´m going to be using soon

i started to learn how to use arduinos and esp´8266 and esp 32 chips .. it seems to me that this chips are going to allow us all to have the kind of system for tests i have here and that cost toooooo much... talking about labview..

in my opinion the metters we are going to create will be even faster and powerfull besides cheap ..

there are dozens of modules ready to use for signals like voltage current temperature pressure  flow, water level etc

is possible to plot graphs and even keep all the results on a data base
we just need to learn how

well this is a huge step for us because knowing how many watts are you using is the very basic to work with...

there are some watt metters too that can be very cheap and work  as a comparison at the inputs

but is important to monitor currents, voltages, frequencies, number of pulses, dutycycle, and be able to plot all this over a flow measurement
 
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 11, 2018, 23:43:01 pm
well what i can tell you about this is that is not possible to extract electrons from there unless some gas is going out missing electrons

there has been no analysis of the gas produced . positive ionized ?  negative ionized ?  balanced ?
no reverse engineering from that point backward

the same applies to Horvath , puharich , Brown etc no one has any idea what the gas was that was produced just loosely called hydrogen gas.

one thing that is established is that the oxygen atom wants the outer shell fully loaded with electrons , thats not going to change .those electrons have to come from some where .
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2018, 03:26:18 am
Hi Fabio,

Sorry to hear about the health crisis.  I strongly recommend complete avoidance of any form of milk.  It makes the tumors grow too fast.  (Personal experience, following accidental irradiation 9 years ago.).  And I've been reading remarkable things about black cumin.

@Will:

I completely agree with everything you say.

I'm going to start playing with my fan motor generator, driving a small hv transformer, with a spark gap on the secondary.  A MOT pulls around a kw but it should be possible to get the effect without so much power.  And I already wired up a little vic transformer.

I'll figure out some kind of test to see if coulomb repulsion will discharge the free electrons without added power input to that part of the circuit.  Free energy has been claimed like that in the past.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2018, 21:58:27 pm
Thats sad news, Fabio....
Take one thing at the time.
We will be here forever. Take it easy. When we find the keys to solving Meyer we let you know ;-)

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2018, 22:00:48 pm
what is the equivalent power in coulombs of the atraction force of the 2 shared electrons of the 2 hydrogen atom with the oxygen atom?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2018, 22:28:57 pm
electric field = newtons/coulombs
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2018, 22:33:46 pm
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2018, 23:37:30 pm
hydrogen bonding
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 14, 2018, 19:50:14 pm
1 meyer didnt used the coils to restrict the amps they were there for create the voltage  intensification by collapse.. when a coil collapse unrestrictedly all the energy is dumped at once.

i started to learn how to use arduinos and esp´8266 and esp 32 chips ..

OK, thanks.  I'll try using a bifilar coil, with a spark gap at one end, one side of the gap connected back to the start, with the cell in series with the other input.

Arduinos are great.  I wired up a lot of PLC's when I was an industrial electrician.  It's so good that we can buy our own now.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 14, 2018, 22:59:03 pm

1 meyer didnt used the coils to restrict the amps they were there for create the voltage  intensification by collapse.. when a coil collapse unrestrictedly all the energy is dumped at once


this is description and function of a true flyback transformer in normal use . the secondary diode makes the secondary invisible to the primary because the diode is reverse . more voltage is available from an ebay FBT than a home made job <<< thats not to put off anyone building coils ....
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 14, 2018, 23:11:18 pm
According to the video at the start of this thread, we don't want the secondary to be invisible to the primary.  But does this mean we can't use my diode T-tap in the circuit, to pump the thermal electrons?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 05:46:43 am
when meyer talk about inducing resonance in the molecule for me it kind of mean that the molecule

1 will have a change in the electron configuration for a moment increasing the energy level H2O

and

2 the atoms at higher energy level will rearrange to a stable form like H2 and O2

notice that therefore we need to form actualy 2H2 and 1O2 molecules

if we consider the area of the plate and the size of water molecules is possible to estimate the number of molecules that will be in direct  contact with it and thus estimate the required pulse configuration.

whenever we raise the voltage over onevolt or so current start flowing unless its very pure water...  this mean that the ionized molecules in the double layer pass thru the layer and get discharged.. meyer clearly stated we dont want that

the only way to make it is to use a material that is not capable of conducting current or if we can saturate the current  i believe meyer did both ways

to actually release the hydrogen from oxygen we need anyway a holdon voltage to not allow for recombination...

when the water molecules electronic configuration get momentarily disrupted i believe there will be a kind of short like effect but here current will not flow to separate the atoms because atoms here are neutral and this is what meyer talk about using voltage potential without consuming energy

imagine for example a water molecule breaks near the positive electrode and that  the hydrogen atoms wont be ionized  will they go toward the negative electrode ?
a neutral molecule can also be polarized
that said is clear that any neutral molecule is going to be attracted to the nearest electrode by electronic polarization!
 
so both electrodes will have free hydrogen atoms and oxygen atoms near it when we get it to resonance

if there is a direct current going there is going to be more oxygen near the positive and more hydrogen near the negative but again the same as before explained 









Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 06:32:39 am
well how can we arrange all this ?

meyer left his traces

1 there is a dc voltage or pulses applied to get the molecules aligned 

2 there is a pulse reversal to induce the resonance on the water molecule

3 when the pulses hits again at a frequency where it make the water resonance increase the energy level the molecule falls  apart

4 when this happens a sort of  low resistance state could happen so pulse is turned of for a bit (gate)

so the resonance is a frequency that is one multiple of one of the vibrational frequencies of water a specific number in theory and just an approximation in real life

the resonant circuit must be arranged to set up and maintain this tuned condition

hope this thoughts can help anyway

 in my mere opinion there are some hiden secrets on meyer system

one is the diode type

another is how  the capacitance of the coils add up with the secondary colapse reversal thru the diode at a certain voltage

meyer impedance circuit show this capacitors in parallel with the coils this mean that when the sistem colapse the pulse sent to the water is the sum of this high voltage capacitors plus the secondary high voltage discharge

this voltage at this capacitances need to be high because when it get to the water it will be reduced too

is important that the resonant frequency of the coils are smaller than the frequency we want to use or just the same as  this will allow the most of power to go to water ... however this frequency must be tuned to the water frequency and this is a subharmonic of a very high frequency,...  the discharge time of the  pulse must be also a sub lengh of the wavelengh
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 07:04:32 am
is impressive how clear i can look at it now! i kind of im sure if i could take some time over it we could get it to work ... meyer told the true for us but we missed some knowledge and patience to look at it with kiss method...

i believe the diode is one of the main secrets ever in this technology and the best way i could try to use it is somehow if you know how many transistors i burned in the past and how i solved the problem of burning them you know what diode i talk about

well what i can tell is that the power must go to the water and not get dissipated on the primary side never now i can clearly see that this is one of  what i was doing very wrong .. unfortunately lack money is what lead me to this situation... because i could not let more transistors burn.. hahaa well lets direct the power elsewhere in the circuit

i believe duty cycle can and should be increase to make it easier to get the system going

draw this ckt

isolated battery
primary connected to positive  of  it and to a mosfet drain... source connected to battery negative
secondary connected also to the positive dc that is going to the primary ,  after the diode the choke is connected .. having a capacitor in parallel if needed (HV one)  than connected to the cell anode
the choke allow the cell  to charge while the choke capacitance is charged
at the cell cathode the other choke is connected and it goes to the drain of the mosfet too!

this make the primary sum up with secondary during discharge and it also create a shorter wave thru the line because it being a step up the primary will have lower inductance thus higher speed in discharge its inductive power...

the coil resistance or and a series variable resistor control the current charge in water and it can have a diode in parallel with it to protect from the power pulse

consider how kelly slater surf pool work

if everything is isolated from ground and the output gas is positive than there is going to be a negative potential on the system (free electrons that can be used with a real ground)

so the ecc circuit now can do its work


 



Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 07:18:54 am
conclusion the chokes plus the secondary form a pulse forming network system that charges thru and discharges all the energy on the water later, the diode is key to let the secondary become part of it also on the discharge time..

the charging will align the molecules and polarize them electronically, the discharging will induce the resonance in the molecule

the circuit is tuned to a certain water resonant frequency . the pulses are interrupted or gated when the system reach resonance of the molecule to allow the molecule to rearrange ..

when a gas go out with positive polarity and the cell remain negative it will become an electron source reversely it become a sync it can be whatever depending on how the system of discharge is designed... 
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 08:23:22 am
is impressive how clear i can look at it now! i kind of im sure if i could take some time over it we could get it to work ... meyer told the true for us but we missed some knowledge and patience to look at it with kiss method...

i believe the diode is one of the main secrets ever in this technology and the best way i could try to use it is somehow if you know how many transistors i burned in the past and how i solved the problem of burning them you know what diode i talk about

well what i can tell is that the power must go to the water and not get dissipated on the primary side never now i can clearly see that this is one of  what i was doing very wrong .. unfortunately lack money is what lead me to this situation... because i could not let more transistors burn.. hahaa well lets direct the power elsewhere in the circuit

i believe duty cycle can and should be increase to make it easier to get the system going

draw this ckt

isolated battery
primary connected to it and to a mosfet drain... source connected to battery negative
secondary connected to the positive dc going to the primary too but thru a diode

after the diode the choke is connected .. having a capacitor in parallel if needed (HV one)  than connected to the cell
the choke allow the cell  to charge while the choke capacitance is charged

on the other side of the cell the other choke is connected and it goes to the drain too!

if everything is isolated from ground and the output gas is positive than there is going to be a negative potential on the system (free electrons that can be used with a real ground)

so the ecc circuit now can do its work

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 08:24:24 am
conclusion the chokes plus the secondary form a pulse forming network system that charges thru and discharges all the energy on the water later, the diode is key to let the secondary become part of it also on the discharge time..

the charging will align the molecules and polarize them electronically, the discharging will induce the resonance in the molecule

the circuit is tuned to a certain water resonant frequency . the pulses are interrupted or gated when the system reach resonance of the molecule to allow the molecule to rearrange ..

when a gas go out with positive polarity and the cell remain negative it will become an electron source reversely it become a sync it can be whatever depending on how the system of discharge is designed...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 08:30:00 am
i have updated that post a little hardcrome explaining better that part

it gets better

i was thinking also about another thing now, if we get salt water or water with free H+ atoms like having potassium or sodium hydroxide in it.. we could benefit of it because it would easily allow the formation of a hydrogen molecule missing one electron readily  i mean a hydrogen molecule sharing one single electron +H2 as soon as the water molecule is break apart this could help fighting against recombination... there may be a optimal concentration for the size of the cell..

here is the ckt i described
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3221.0;attach=15309)

here is the waveform
the charging at every pulse and the reverse pulse all there.. during pulse off time the coil take over maintaining the current until next pulse come..and when gate is cutting it vanish


(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=3221.0;attach=15311)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 09:13:58 am
The main thing is to see how he was pulsing the cell. The other things come later to those who figure it out. The independent evaluation report describes what happens when you blast water with a cap. That goes along with what Meyer says in his video.

You do not pulse the chokes, you feed them. unfiltered DC. (low frequency charging the cap) Although it does not look isolated, it is when its working. Provided you don't drain it too low and are running at resonance.

The bifilar chokes, lock every thing down when the cap is fired.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 09:17:51 am
yes the chokes maintain the cell charged or some current  going on during pulse off and its sumed with the new pulse up coming increasing the current every pulse and is resposible to imediately recharge the cell to positive after the peak pulse...

but we must remember that a capacitor is everytime discharged before.. depends only on the inductance of secondary that is low because the core is charged and capacitance of the chokes that are also low
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 10:33:58 am
The main thing is to see how he was pulsing the cell. The other things come later to those who figure it out. The independent evaluation report describes what happens when you blast water with a cap. That goes along with what Meyer says in his video.

You do not pulse the chokes, you feed them. unfiltered DC. (low frequency charging the cap) Although it does not look isolated, it is when its working. Provided you don't drain it too low and are running at resonance.

The bifilar chokes, lock every thing down when the cap is fired.

when we stop a current going in a choke it will fight against this change raising the voltage in the same direction the current  was going.. but it first will have to discharge the capacitance that is charged in parallel with it
thats what is so special about it ... when we get a pulse in the line it will first charge the line and the load in our case because the pulse forming and the cell are in line connected this necessarily mean that this pulse forming is made to create a pulse that will reverse the cell with a very short spike wave but right after still maintain the polarization for a short while because of the inductance part and the dc pulses that charges the whole thing  ..

i dont know if it need to be bifilar

i even believe is possible to simply split the system in two one having a capacitor and a hv transformer and the other having dc and a simple choke to choke off the high voltage spikes created with the capacitor... of course some adjustments need to be done ..


the frequency we are looking to get is a multiple of +- 100 THZ this is 1.0*10^14

thus a sub harmonic like 10khz would work assuming this vibration in water have a very high Q factor... therefore the higher is the harmonic we hit the better ....

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 11:21:40 am
http://halas.rice.edu/conversions (http://halas.rice.edu/conversions)  i calculated ther frequency using the 3400 cm-1 wavenumber

this kind of mean that there are  thousands of frequencies we could use and would be the same.... maybe that why meyer talk about fine tuning basically many many many frequencies could work we just need to adjust the phase thats why its called a phase locked loop the precision in change we are looking is very narrow probably thats why he used so many dividers on the pll so a fine frequency tune is much more important than having a huge range... of course it must be within the range of the resonance..

i´m starting to think that meyer pll would not have a frequency change only would manage automaticaly the number of pulses as functon of what is happening in the cell that because is more important to have this frequency stable tuned to this specific parameter..
Title: steve test Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 14:39:40 pm
Hi partners,


Here my first effort to replicate the tinman power setup with sparkgap.
My measurement was done on a very simple way with a multimeter. Later i will install my scopes.
The setup is simple.
1 piece 230v MOT
1 variac
1 capacitor 1 uF
1 sparkplug

The frequency is net related and i have put 1 diode in serie with the MOT and watercell.
Pulsed dc into the cell.
The multimeter measures
0.53 volts acros the cell when the variac is hitting 250v into the primary coil and cell.
Again, the voltage over the cell is very very low.
No gas is produced.
As soon as i put the sparkplug and capacitor in place, i get sparks on the plug.
Suddenly gas is produced!
Voltage over the cell is 0.83v..........

Here some pics
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 16:17:56 pm
I guess sebasfato wants to make it more complicated than it really is. What I said is how it works, your not going to theorize it into something else.  What's so damn hard about putting a cap across the cell  with a fet on the low side. Between the cell and the cap.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 17:50:07 pm
sorry to maybe go off topic... but actually i´m trying to think the theory first so we dont have to  keep doing things wrong... of course is just theory and any part could be wrong  however its being so many years thinking about this that it apear to me all glues up
well first think i would look is how precise is my frequency from the pll... i remember it had lot of variance so is not a good to go

i think i will need to design the pll to have a very narrow range to get such needed precision....remember 100THZ well this is sort of the precision we need in phase.. 


nice test Steve... do you have used the same diagram you show on the first page? how is the waveform looking like? its pure water? what is the current going on water?

i have done tests with a spark gap... but only small stream of gas came out at that time we were following those Ronnies ideas.. i think he was kind of on it for real although he didnt help any of us to get there hopefully i took the time to understand what they teach me and i´m thankful  for them to have share some with me that lead me to get some conclusions...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 19:30:55 pm
You do not need fancy stuff.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 19:37:55 pm
Good work, Steve.  I tried it with my 12kV NST and I'm also getting bubbles, a significant amount.  The cell is a couple of tapered restaurant sauce cups.  I have a 5/16" spark gap with a DIY nano Farad cap.  300 W on the primary, but, with the diode, it's perhaps only half the rated value.  edit: And I'm using well water.

With this many Watts, I'm wondering about steam?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 20:04:00 pm
I let it run for a little while and there is some small amount of condensation inside the neck of the plastic bottle, but none on the lid.  Bubbles breaking the surface may be spraying upwards.  The effect seems to work better with no cap in the secondary circuit, just the spark gap.  And the bubbles do blast when touched with a flame.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 20:14:24 pm
sorry to maybe go off topic... but actually i´m trying to think the theory first so we dont have to  keep doing things wrong... of course is just theory and any part could be wrong  however its being so many years thinking about this that it apear to me all glues up
well first think i would look is how precise is my frequency from the pll... i remember it had lot of variance so is not a good to go

i think i will need to design the pll to have a very narrow range to get such needed precision....remember 100THZ well this is sort of the precision we need in phase.. 


nice test Steve... do you have used the same diagram you show on the first page? how is the waveform looking like? its pure water? what is the current going on water?

i have done tests with a spark gap... but only small stream of gas came out at that time we were following those Ronnies ideas.. i think he was kind of on it for real although he didnt help any of us to get there hopefully i took the time to understand what they teach me and i´m thankful  for them to have share some with me that lead me to get some conclusions...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 20:19:24 pm
Good work, Steve.  I tried it with my 12kV NST and I'm also getting bubbles, a significant amount.  The cell is a couple of tapered restaurant sauce cups.  I have a 5/16" spark gap with a DIY nano Farad cap.  300 W on the primary, but, with the diode, it's perhaps only half the rated value.  edit: And I'm using well water.

With this many Watts, I'm wondering about steam?

Thanks, Tek,

I also use my own well water.
My sparkplug ran so hot that the tip was melting.
I have not measured the consumed amps yet, but the power sucked by the sparkplug must be something.
Or it is so hot because of some sort of resonance between the cap and the seconairy
It is clear that the load on the secondairy is effecting the primary with the cell .....
At least i have something to put my brains around for the moment. ;D



Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 20:22:08 pm
The only difference with Tinman's setup is the frequency i am using.
I ll guess with higher frequencys, it might look a bit different.
Still, it is funny to see the cell producing gas when the sparkplug goes firing and doesnt produce gas when the sparkgap is off
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 20:27:51 pm
As stated, my sparkplug melts....really really hot as hell.
So, my test windows is very small.
I tried more cells in parallel, but then no gas is produced during sparking.
It only works for me with just 1 Meyer tubes set, we all know.
If i use a smaller capacitor in serie with the sparkplug of 0.82uF, it doesnt work either.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 20:41:39 pm
Maybe I know why you are getting the gas only when it sparks ..  when it sparks it reduces the impedance and allow current to flow thru the mot coil otherwise the coil holds the current too much ...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 21:33:57 pm
Maybe I know why you are getting the gas only when it sparks ..  when it sparks it reduces the impedance and allow current to flow thru the mot coil otherwise the coil holds the current too much ...
How does that work? The primary coil is around 2 ohms.

Another question: If i want to measure the amps at the cell, i must use a dc amp meter, right?
Why do i measure 0.01 amps and see a spark on the plug and lots of gas out of the cell?
I also have to pulse the input a bit more and i see even more gas..... ::) ::)
What is going on here?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 23:00:21 pm
I fired mine up again and took some readings.  With the cap on the secondary the meter shows 13.7 V.  Without the cap it's 19.8 V.  This is with the meter in parallel with the cell's wires.  Then I removed the cell's connection to the non diode side of the AC input (the wire which doesn't go directly to the transformer), and put the meter in series at this point, in series with the AC wire and the cell.  With the cap, it shows 2.8 Amps feeding the NST, through the meter and the cell.  Roughly 38 Watts.  Without the cap it reads 3.9 Amps, or right at twice the Watts.

I took a video, to get a clip of the bubbles right at startup, before the water gets too cloudy, but Windows 10 won't play the video from my Android phone.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2018, 23:38:10 pm
I forgot to mention I had to move the meter's red wire to the other socket to measure the Amps.

The next thing to do is put a small tube on the side of my cell, with a thin line around the middle and both the top and bottom of this tube piped back into the cell.  After enough water is poured into the cell to come up to the line on the gauge tube, a precise amount of water can be added to the cell, keeping track of how long it takes for the electrolysis to bring the water level back down to the reference line.  Then the gas output can be easily calculated.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 02:07:09 am
to be certain of what is going on ii think is better to wire an oscilloscope to see it well ... some meters may not show what we need just in time

try substituting the spark gap with a resistor of similar value and check if some gas get going ... probably half the energy is being dissipated on the sparkplug heating the resistor must be a power one because will also get hot...

if you add your probes on the resistor you can evaluate the current going
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 02:50:16 am
The difference between a resister and a spark gap is the resister will not wait until the potential reaches a certain level before conducting.  The gap produces a steep leading edge rich in upper harmonics, compared to a sine wave from a resister.  Also, transient spikes tend to travel at differing speeds through a coil and this can make a scope unreliable.  Perhaps a spectrum analyzer across the cell would be better?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 05:56:51 am
a simple oscilloscope will show you what you need to see that is what is the waveform across the cell or the current you just need to wisely wire it to dont interfere in the ckt and to keep the oscilloscope safe

the resistor was just an example for you try and compare the gas production figure
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2018, 21:49:07 pm
I tried today with a full bridge rectifier, in stead of just 1 diode.
I got lots of gas and a lot of volts acros the cell.
But, the sparkgap was not triggerd, so i could not see what that would add....

cheers
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2018, 08:33:01 am
i was making some drawings here and maybe the spark gap could be in parallel with the diode to make it work...

this allow the field to collapse and to connect the secondary to the chokes capacitance for all the game to go... its similar to a tvs but a tvs will consume more power probably...

i was thinking a way to use a tvs to detect the triger point but make it activate some switch to let the power to go straight to water...

a trigatron would be ideal but maybe some solidstate is possible
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 05, 2018, 23:30:52 pm
Hi all,


Did anybody tried the EEC ?

Steve
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2018, 16:04:41 pm
Hello mr

I have never tried the ecc after i have learned some physics... maybe now its just time as its much clearer to me

yesterday i wrote here but it went wrong on server

when we charge the water say positively it will give electrons to the high voltage we are applying and those electrons will go to ground if we dont allow them to go back to water (one wire)

the higher is the voltage and the gas flow the greater will be the high voltage current or ionization current so is best to have voltage levels and frequency for each ionization step

the ionization may be achieved by high voltage discharge on water and its electron extraction depends on the high voltage potential the cell is referent to ground

another way i see it happening is the electron extraction circuit being a kind of circuit that boils off electrons from the filament passing thru a grounded tube such that the electrons cannot make thru the circuit so ionizing but not consuming as much as power

basically it will form something like a tube diode so electrons will go one way but wont return


Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2018, 16:08:57 pm
its not an easy task since the current must be enough to boil the electrons out


the way xray tubes do is to use chokes or a transformer for the filament current

so basically we need some current to flow

we need that when the current is passing thru the filament it get repelled by it!

we need high voltage positive on cell bath side to take electrons out of it

and at the same time is necessary to revert the polarity to pull electrons out of the filament


it requires a transformer secondary wired to a diode in series with this diode will be the amp consuming device ( a tube diode possibly with a small capacitor in parallel with it ) after it go the cell anode and after the cell a coil that close the circuit with the secondary

at this circuit point i added a capacitor and a diode connected to ground to allow the cell potential to be positive referent to ground during the pulse but when the voltage reverses the capacitor will allow enough current to just revert the polarity of the cell and amp consuming device to boil electrons out of it more easily when the polarity of the cell is negative it will repel electrons allowing to take them out of it



Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2018, 18:00:38 pm
Hi Fabio,

I updated the servcr , yesterday. The forum software is also updated... Took me some hours in totall.
It seems to work fine now.

cheers
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 06, 2018, 18:02:25 pm
The question is: Does the EEC bring something. If it does, what does it bring.
Can i measure or see it?

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 07, 2018, 17:50:15 pm
The question is: Does the EEC bring something. If it does, what does it bring.
Can i measure or see it?

It appear to me that what it bring from the electronic point of view is a current in the high voltage line (referenced to ground) ... this current can be measured and compared with a test current of the neutralization of the gas

for example if we hold the cell at 40kv dc using one transformer we add a ammeter to this transformer connection to ground

on the gas output we add a metal tube to allow the gas pass thru it and discharge its charge on it ... if we ground this tube and add other ammeter there is possible to evaluate if there is ionized gas output and its polarity

the greater is the gas production the greater should be the current as it will be bringing charge with it as its bubbles  breaks water surface tension

this is the first step to get on the eec

the next step would be to improove this ionization current but first we need to get any current to start with to know that we are on the right way

is important to have the amp metters that read rms values not peak otherwise wont be a good reading

also it would be great to connect to the oscilloscope and compare the waveforms since the gas ionization output theoretically will look more like dc while the trasnformer will have a pulsing caracteristics

than is possible to add a resistor on the gas side and see what voltage is possible to develop in it with such a discharge

for example we add a resistor of 10kohm if the current was 1ma it should result in 10v on the resistor

at a certain higher resistor value it wont be able to discharge the gas fully or even partially


the only way i see possible to determine the gas quality improvement would be a setup where the gas can be directed to a torch and to heat some water cup over it while measuring the temperature rise of the water relative to time it will be possible to determine weather the ionization is helping or not improve to some extent the gas quality



Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 07, 2018, 18:03:33 pm
the temperature rising setup can be arranged with a nodemcu esp8266 or esp32 using a db18s20 temperature sensor and simple program for display it on a web interface

also the ammeters and other stuf can be build around those chips too allowing to display all info on the same place

in this case for the ecc i would go for having a ammeter for the hv

one ammeter  for the ionization current

a voltage metter for the gas current

the temperature rise metter

is already 4 meters with only a 2 dollar chip

the greatest problem is the torch and steady gas production

in my mere opinion we could use a simple full wave bridge design with low voltage to achieve the gas output required for testing ... must be isolated and properly protected as we are applying high voltage from elsewhere

the best way to do it is using a pair of mutual chokes and some capacitors at the input sides of the chokes connected to ground this is where one ammeter goes

the high voltage is to be applied straight to the cell and ground 

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 07, 2018, 19:32:41 pm
i had a setup that were simply a pair of concentric tubes that were into a acrylic cup having a copper foil on the outside of the acrylic cup

than i had if i remember well a high voltage coil connected to the foil and on the other side i had two diodes one connected to the inner electrode and the other to the outer

the result was bubbles of gas being generated that when arrived the surface of water it was clearly moved toward the cup sides.... meaning it was indeed charged,,,

another way that worked was to have one diode connected to the central electrode and a coil conneted from the foil to the outer electrode

basically this circuit alowed to use the acrylic as a capacitor being the water the other side of the capacitor

the water was very pure on this tests so the gas output was very small but clearly charged

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 07, 2018, 19:43:10 pm
today i would improve this setup with new knowledge i have

i would sand paper the outside of the acrylic cup and add a coat of pencil graphite this allow for increasing 3 fold the capacitance...

the acrylic must be as thin as possible.. would be even better polycarbonate or polipropilene PP

even glass should work and probably would be thinner and more heat resistant in case of some arching .,.. i would not skip the sanding paper part with the glass either

a becker could work very well

is necessary to understand the properties of the glass material as some will be low in resistance

something like 10cm diameter should work nice

i think the purer is the water the higher will be the chance to get it ionized as its splited  but i can be wrong

we know that if we place one test charge inside a conductor it will necessaryly be attracted to the conductor and goes toward it unless its in a equilibrium situation

for example if we charge the inside of the water bath positive the inner wall of the bath capacitor (glass) will be positive so it would reppel positive charges it would attract only if the charges were negative... but as the water is somewhat a conductor the positive charges wont be able to stay still too...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 09, 2018, 09:02:36 am
you could say that a coil in parallel is some kind of EEC.......ill gues
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 09, 2018, 17:18:06 pm
Yeas thats the idea i guess....

if we get a transformer with one coil bigger than the other and connect the smaller in series and bigger in parallel with the cell both with the dot convention on the cell side... and apply a voltage to it :

the smaller coil will apply a emf on the bigger coil that is already receiving a voltage but will be able to let amps flow thru it so i imagine working like an alternative path to the amps to flow instead of the high voltage secondary

see the picture

when the pulse collapse t2 will send a very high negative pulse to the water in one my theories it will break the covalent bound by inducing the resonance in the molecule.. 

if the water is not pure enough it wont have a spike like effect... the water must be pure to be able to use a coil to discharge high voltage across it... (fact)

if we want to get high voltage on low resistance a capacitor will have much more impact



Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 09, 2018, 18:47:57 pm
on this second drawing i split it into 3 parts

one is the input transformer creating the resonance between the c1 and chokes but sending unidirectional voltage to water

the second part is the chokes c2 protect the diodes by not allowing high voltage to appear there so the chokes allow dc to be applied while the cell receive the spikes from the other circuit

the third part is the high voltage spike t3 and c3 will send one positive and one negative charging and discharging the capacitor that may be very small to be able to get very high speed discharge

maybe it could or should be impedance matched with the cell to not have power reflections..

the chokes modulates their current to filter the high voltage spike not allowing the spike to reach the diodes and if it reach the c2 is there to limit the voltage rise ... a tvs could be there to protect the bridge too but a capacitor may be better i imagine a 100nf 1kv is ok 

for the c1 maybe 10nf is enough if water is very pure .,, 

Title: wave shape
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 09, 2018, 22:29:14 pm
i found that if the waveform meyer used is real there is only two ways of achieving that

one is to directly use resonance and apply it using a full wave bridge rectifier

the second is to rectify with the full wave bridge and filter  it using a capacitor and a coil


here is an example

there is also a tuned choke notice how the doubled frequency is sincronized with the tuned

$ 1 5.0000000000000004e-8 13.097415321081861 39 5 43
r 16 80 64 80 0 0.1
r 432 48 432 160 0 1000
T 64 80 160 128 2 0.002 5 -5.119296001649148 0.6830204695130128 0.99
c 256 128 224 128 0 1.0000000000000001e-7 -67.64292102483705
d 256 80 352 48 1 0.805904783
d 352 160 256 80 1 0.805904783
d 256 128 352 48 1 0.805904783
d 352 160 256 128 1 0.805904783
c 464 48 464 160 0 1e-9 611.9014472755616
w 464 160 432 160 0
w 464 48 432 48 0
v 16 128 16 80 0 2 5000 100 0 0 0.5
w 64 128 32 128 0
w 32 128 16 128 0
w 160 80 256 80 0
g 464 272 464 304 0
c 464 272 464 160 0 1e-10 -5382.877015599755
l 352 160 352 112 0 0.01 -0.6830201266465822
w 352 48 432 48 0
c 352 48 352 112 0 1e-8 612.5005192834187
w 384 112 432 160 0
r 384 112 352 112 0 1
d 240 208 352 256 1 0.805904783
g 352 256 352 288 0
T 160 128 208 192 4 0.01 26 0.6830204695130131 0.021215383748344595 0.99
w 224 128 160 192 0
w 208 128 208 48 0
w 208 48 352 48 0
g 208 192 208 208 0
o 1 64 0 4354 1115.1179482111302 0.0001 0 2 1 3
o 1 64 0 12553 0.0001 0.6742331271812282 1 2 1 3
o 16 64 0 12298 13863.500997639552 0.0001 1 2 16 3
o 11 64 1 29443 0.0001 0.0001 2 1 574.3642737697833
o 16 64 0 4099 40960 0.1 3 2 16 3

matching the impedance is just a matter of identifying the resistance of the cell to real dc and apply the same reactances for inductor and capacitor the resistance can be zero if you want zero loss .. 

Title: ground
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2018, 08:40:49 am
i made a hand drawing to help visualize what happens when the cell is charged with dc and the switch is open .. it made me wonder about the usefulness of the ground

when we ground one electrode of the cell essentially,( correct me if i´m wrong please..) essentially the electrode will be at 0v potential meaning that if we charge the cell the other electrode will be at the respective voltage level we applied

in capacitors the charges works in pairs its not different for the capacitor generally if the charges are at a certain potential..! 

however i was wondering if in a capacitor having ions it has any difference

i imagine that if we ground for example the positive electrode and send a negative pulse to the other can be different than grounding the negative electrode and sending a positive pulse to the other

because when we disconnect the pulse the ions inside will keep attracted more or less than the other to the ground for example..

i imagine hydrogen positive ions will be more attracted to the ground than negative ions will be attracted by a negative voltage so  perhaps the difference is that we can attract the heaviest one and leave mostly the other free to move or vice versa.. .

the ions will only discharge if an electron pass thru the ckt and discharge both positive and negative at same time


if we hold the cell at high voltage for example in reference to ground it can ionize some molecules but the main idea is that at this electrode the negative ions should get stuck

so if we want the other ion to move we need to apply a voltage to drive it elsewhere


Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 11, 2018, 10:48:43 am
Hi,I had an interesting conversation with a man from the beginning of the topic....half of his explanation I understood and half I did not.

He use Dave Lawton PLL as a signal generator and yes, you can buy  or just buy PCB, two Stanley Meyer's HV switches, not complicated to make. I got that part how to connect PLL to 2x switches but rest is unclear to me. I was hoping to get answers from people who understand it but  this went over my head  ??? Yes, this may seem like he  explains *  how to drive a car, but that's how it is  ;D

"The WFC Circuit is just a Rectifier & Two ‘Stanley Meyer High Voltage Switches’ where one Switch Charges the WFC Gated at LC Resonance with an 8XA Coil & the other Switch ‘Short Circuits’ the WFC & by-passes the 8XA Coil at LC Resonance into an external ‘Light Bulb & Battery Array’ Load as the Electron Extraction Circuit… A Variable Inductor is used for Tuning the Circuit. This is Very SIMPLE & will produce a Minimum of 300% Faraday’s to 1,700% Faraday’s simple Electrolysis at around 0.05 Amps or 1/20th of an Amp… Once this is understood, you can start using Toroids, Ignition Coils or Tesla Coils."


"All you need is the 'Potential and the Frequency'. The Electrons can come from the Power (Enslavement) Grids Neutral, an Earthed Rod in your Back Yard or the Covalent Bonds in Water itself. In Auckland New Zealand and Darwin of Australia people have been using the 'LIVE' Phase connection from the Power Grid and an Earthed Rod as a Neutral to power their Hydrponic Lights for years... In New Zealand a guy in debt to a Motor Cycle Gang gave them A Box that when connected to a 'LIVE'  Phase and a separate Earth powered a Warehouse with Electrons from the Earth ...All your interested in is the Potential and Frequency
Just look at (Google) 'A Vector Potentials'."


"If you have the original Lawton PLL you can hook up to any switch directly from the Diode Light to an optociuple. If you have the original SCR you can hook the Diode Light up to the side connections that you'd normally connect any Frequency Generator to."



"So you have your Dave Lawton Pll just remove the Switch and connect three wires that you can then connect to your optocouple. Easy!... you really need to Switch BACK-EMF Im-Pulses and not Hot Electricity from a Variac."


"If you understand how to remove the LED and hook it to your SCR then all you do is build two SCR Circuits and instead of using an SCR you pick out a PNP and an NPN so you get an alternation using the same signal. So one Switch Charges the WFC and the other Switch Short Circuits it using a Variac Transformer. The gist of it, is Charging the Water Fuel Cell then Short Circuiting it, the PLL will do this automatically... The reason Faradays Electrolysis gets Hot is because it is the Load, using the Stanley Meyer method the Load is external to the Water Fuel Cell, it still uses Amperage but externalises the Heat/EM Losses component into a Light Bulb... It's like Charging a Battery and it gets Hot because it is the Load while its Charging but, when you discharge the Battery like in a Laptop the Pentium Chip gets Hot because it's the Load and the Laptop Battery remains Cold to touch, so a Stanley Meyer Water Fuel Cell externalises the Load. Once you get this, then you'll get that the most efficient way to charge a Capacitor that stores Charge is to use Back EMF Im-Pulses then you'll see your efficiencies increase! ... It's all about externalising the Heat component then increasing the efficiency of the Cell, my Cells hooked up to a 3.25 KVA generator- if School Girls in Africa can build this SHIT with Junk Parts anyone in the Western World can build this!"


"... The simplest way for you to hook it up is, instead of the PLL Switch going to the Cell, you need to remove that Switch. You need to directly Switch your Optocouple so you need to remove that Switch and Solder it up yourself because it is a NEGATIVE Switch. Your just making it hard for yourself not removing the Switch from your PPL Circuit because you need that Positive Signal. Once this is done you'll have Two POSITIVE Switch outputs: 1. The Light Emitting Diode & 2. The Positive Signal that previously Switched the NEGATIVE Switch that you have now removed. SIMPLE! If you built your own SCR Circuit you can easily build another one OK. ... You need a NPN so you can collect the Back EMF Im-Pulses off the NEGATIVE at Switch Closure using Blocking Diodes on the Negative. ... You also need a PNP and what this does is it only Switches ON when the Pin is NEGATIVE so the same signal Switches Two separate Switches. The NPN Charges the Cell with Back EMF Im-Pulses and the PNP Short Circuits the Cell with a Light Bulb on the Positive of the Cell to CONSUME all Amperage from the Water Fuel Cell... Its NOT Rocket Science!"


"All you do is remove it and you need the Potentential and the Neutral and you can use the one signal to power two seperate Opto-Couples with one Opto for the NPN which has Diodes off the Negative of a Coil to collect the Back-EMF Im-Pulses that go to the Positive of your Water Fuel Cell and the Negative Side of your Water Fuel Cell is connected to the Positive Side of your Coil... I know this sounds like it doesn't make sense but, the Water Fuel Cell is only being Charged with Back EMF Im-Pulses when the NPN closes. then seperate to this the other Opto is for the PNP which has a Light Bulb on the Positive Side of the Water Fuel Cell then the PNP. SO WHEN THIS IS FED WITH A SQUARE WAVE YOU GET AN ALTERNATING SIGNAL : P, N,P, N, P, N, P ECT.  you can even Postulate the OFF NPN's Back-EMF Im-Pulse takes place while the Short Circuit PNP is On and therefore the Light Bulb is powered by the Back EMF Im-Pulse but it can't because theres no Amperage therefore the Amperage can only come from the Water Fuel Cell Capacitor. during its Short Circuit. You'll know when its built right"








Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 11, 2018, 12:35:05 pm
Hi,I had an interesting conversation with a man from the beginning of the topic....half of his explanation I understood and half I did not.

He use Dave Lawton PLL as a signal generator and yes, you can buy  or just buy PCB, two Stanley Meyer's HV switches, not complicated to make. I got that part how to connect PLL to 2x switches but rest is unclear to me. I was hoping to get answers from people who understand is but  this went over my head  ??? Yes, this may seem like he  explains *  how to drive a car, but that's how it is  ;D

"The WFC Circuit is just a Rectifier & Two ‘Stanley Meyer High Voltage Switches’ where one Switch Charges the WFC Gated at LC Resonance with an 8XA Coil & the other Switch ‘Short Circuits’ the WFC & by-passes the 8XA Coil at LC Resonance into an external ‘Light Bulb & Battery Array’ Load as the Electron Extraction Circuit… A Variable Inductor is used for Tuning the Circuit. This is Very SIMPLE & will produce a Minimum of 300% Faraday’s to 1,700% Faraday’s simple Electrolysis at around 0.05 Amps or 1/20th of an Amp… Once this is understood, you can start using Toroids, Ignition Coils or Tesla Coils."


"All you need is the 'Potential and the Frequency'. The Electrons can come from the Power (Enslavement) Grids Neutral, an Earthed Rod in your Back Yard or the Covalent Bonds in Water itself. In Auckland New Zealand and Darwin of Australia people have been using the 'LIVE' Phase connection from the Power Grid and an Earthed Rod as a Neutral to power their Hydrponic Lights for years... In New Zealand a guy in debt to a Motor Cycle Gang gave them A Box that when connected to a 'LIVE'  Phase and a separate Earth powered a Warehouse with Electrons from the Earth ...All your interested in is the Potential and Frequency
Just look at (Google) 'A Vector Potentials'.?
If you have the original Lawton PLL you can hook up to any switch directly from the Diode Light to an optociuple. If you have the original SCR you can hook the Diode Light up to the side connections that you'd normally connect any Frequency Generator to.?
So you have your Dave Lawton Pll just remove the Switch and connect three wires that you can then connect to your optocouple. Easy!... you really need to Switch BACK-EMF Im-Pulses and not Hot Electricity from a Variac.?
If you understand how to remove the LED and hook it to your SCR then all you do is build two SCR Circuits and instead of using an SCR you pick out a PNP and an NPN so you get an alternation using the same signal. So one Switch Charges the WFC and the other Switch Short Circuits it using a Variac Transformer. The gist of it, is Charging the Water Fuel Cell then Short Circuiting it, the PLL will do this automatically... The reason Faradays Electrolysis gets Hot is because it is the Load, using the Stanley Meyer method the Load is external to the Water Fuel Cell, it still uses Amperage but externalises the Heat/EM Losses component into a Light Bulb... It's like Charging a Battery and it gets Hot because it is the Load while its Charging but, when you discharge the Battery like in a Laptop the Pentium Chip gets Hot because it's the Load and the Laptop Battery remains Cold to touch, so a Stanley Meyer Water Fuel Cell externalises the Load. Once you get this, then you'll get that the most efficient way to charge a Capacitor that stores Charge is to use Back EMF Im-Pulses then you'll see your efficiencies increase! ... It's all about externalising the Heat component then increasing the efficiency of the Cell, my Cells hooked up to a 3.25 KVA generator- if School Girls in Africa can build this SHIT with Junk Parts anyone in the Western World can build this!?
... The simplest way for you to hook it up is, instead of the PLL Switch going to the Cell, you need to remove that Switch. You need to directly Switch your Optocouple so you need to remove that Switch and Solder it up yourself because it is a NEGATIVE Switch. Your just making it hard for yourself not removing the Switch from your PPL Circuit because you need that Positive Signal. Once this is done you'll have Two POSITIVE Switch outputs: 1. The Light Emitting Diode & 2. The Positive Signal that previously Switched the NEGATIVE Switch that you have now removed. SIMPLE! If you built your own SCR Circuit you can easily build another one OK. ... You need a NPN so you can collect the Back EMF Im-Pulses off the NEGATIVE at Switch Closure using Blocking Diodes on the Negative. ... You also need a PNP and what this does is it only Switches ON when the Pin is NEGATIVE so the same signal Switches Two separate Switches. The NPN Charges the Cell with Back EMF Im-Pulses and the PNP Short Circuits the Cell with a Light Bulb on the Positive of the Cell to CONSUME all Amperage from the Water Fuel Cell... Its NOT Rocket Science!?


All you do is remove it and you need the Potentential and the Neutral and you can use the one signal to power two seperate Opto-Couples with one Opto for the NPN which has Diodes off the Negative of a Coil to collect the Back-EMF Im-Pulses that go to the Positive of your Water Fuel Cell and the Negative Side of your Water Fuel Cell is connected to the Positive Side of your Coil... I know this sounds like it doesn't make sense but, the Water Fuel Cell is only being Charged with Back EMF Im-Pulses when the NPN closes. then seperate to this the other Opto is for the PNP which has a Light Bulb on the Positive Side of the Water Fuel Cell then the PNP. SO WHEN THIS IS FED WITH A SQUARE WAVE YOU GET AN ALTERNATING SIGNAL : P, N,P, N, P, N, P ECT.  you can even Postulate the OFF NPN's Back-EMF Im-Pulse takes place while the Short Circuit PNP is On and therefore the Light Bulb is powered by the Back EMF Im-Pulse but it can't because theres no Amperage therefore the Amperage can only come from the Water Fuel Cell Capacitor. during its Short Circuit. You'll know when its built right"

So you had contact with the man of the video,s?

Thanks for posting, btw. I need some days to proces this. I will make a schematic as good as i understand ....


cheers
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 11, 2018, 13:17:02 pm
Yes, i just wanted some simple scheme or how wires are connected but he insisted on educating me at academic level but I do not have that kind of knowledge...i will draw in paint how i understood PLL to 2x HV SCR and some other "stuf".  About NPN PNP transistors is astrophysics to me but i bet it's simple if I could see it.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 11, 2018, 20:46:35 pm
is good to understand how the things work but is not what we want when we simply want to build something.. a good schematic sometimes get some great result in learning,,,

dealing with electronics is a pain in the *  if you dont know what you r doing.. i can tell you that i spend literaly tens of thousands of dollars burning components until i learn how to use them a little better
 
i highly suggest that you go and understand how a mosfet works how many volts you need to turn it on how high voltage or current it handle and how to protect the mosfet from burn while pulsing coils

the main ingredient in safety are resistors diodes tvs diodes and capacitors

also other coils on the same core can be useful directing the energy in other direction than the switch that will break if you gone wild

is really easy actually



i tried to read what he explained to you but for me is a bit confuse so i could not understand the schematic at all

i guess he was playing you or was confuse himself with the explanation


first thing to notice is that an scr is not going to open the ckt unless the voltage between anode and cathode is small enough to not allow a hold current..


using inductors wisely is possible to even switch dc with them but it takes some work to do it
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 12, 2018, 08:13:35 am
It would be good for a few people draw simple shematic or how wires are connected from two SCR to WFC how you see ti even if they don't think that it is possible.
My mistake i did not immediately ask someone who understand it.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 12, 2018, 09:58:10 am
is a bit confusing what the guy says but mainly what i understand from it is that you need to power up the cell and when it is disconnected it will be connected to a external coil having an incandecent bulb attached to it

it appear to me he try to take the back emf of the cell itself out generating power somehow,..

the cell is basically a resistor when water is very pure the voltage will be proportional to the amps flowing thru it

when water has a base or acid it will have free ions and their movement will cause a current to flow..

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 13, 2018, 09:44:19 am
is a bit confusing what the guy says but mainly what i understand from it is that you need to power up the cell and when it is disconnected it will be connected to a external coil having an incandecent bulb attached to it

it appear to me he try to take the back emf of the cell itself out generating power somehow,..

the cell is basically a resistor when water is very pure the voltage will be proportional to the amps flowing thru it

when water has a base or acid it will have free ions and their movement will cause a current to flow..

when we apply energy to a capacitor some energy is lost when charging it related to the resistive losses

there is even a situation possible to calculate when a charged capacitor is connected to another of the same size  half the energy simply disappear mathematically however is not dissipated its a matter of destroy the electromagnetic energy such as happen with wave interference.. the back emf voltage itself stops the current when the capacitors reach the same level..

with inductor the voltage is not in the same direction because as i tried to explain before in other posts the inductor works by separating a charge density in the metal this causes the charges to have a attraction to each other inside the coil itself so when we disconnect the source they simply volktage go backwards but in the in the inductor case backwards is in the same direction for the electrons
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2018, 23:30:30 pm
just a link with the best frequency generator with gating option and Eec ......
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,2643.0.html

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 17, 2018, 23:50:22 pm
quote:

"The WFC Circuit is just a Rectifier & Two ‘Stanley Meyer High Voltage Switches’ where one Switch Charges the WFC Gated at LC Resonance with an 8XA Coil & the other Switch ‘Short Circuits’ the WFC & by-passes the 8XA Coil at LC Resonance into an external ‘Light Bulb & Battery Array’ Load as the Electron Extraction Circuit… A Variable Inductor is used for Tuning the Circuit. This is Very SIMPLE & will produce a Minimum of 300% Faraday’s to 1,700% Faraday’s simple Electrolysis at around 0.05 Amps or 1/20th of an Amp… Once this is understood, you can start using Toroids, Ignition Coils or Tesla Coils."


"All you need is the 'Potential and the Frequency'. The Electrons can come from the Power (Enslavement) Grids Neutral, an Earthed Rod in your Back Yard or the Covalent Bonds in Water itself. In Auckland New Zealand and Darwin of Australia people have been using the 'LIVE' Phase connection from the Power Grid and an Earthed Rod as a Neutral to power their Hydrponic Lights for years... In New Zealand a guy in debt to a Motor Cycle Gang gave them A Box that when connected to a 'LIVE'  Phase and a separate Earth powered a Warehouse with Electrons from the Earth ...All your interested in is the Potential and Frequency
Just look at (Google) 'A Vector Potentials'.?
If you have the original Lawton PLL you can hook up to any switch directly from the Diode Light to an optociuple. If you have the original SCR you can hook the Diode Light up to the side connections that you'd normally connect any Frequency Generator to.?
So you have your Dave Lawton Pll just remove the Switch and connect three wires that you can then connect to your optocouple. Easy!... you really need to Switch BACK-EMF Im-Pulses and not Hot Electricity from a Variac.?
If you understand how to remove the LED and hook it to your SCR then all you do is build two SCR Circuits and instead of using an SCR you pick out a PNP and an NPN so you get an alternation using the same signal. So one Switch Charges the WFC and the other Switch Short Circuits it using a Variac Transformer. The gist of it, is Charging the Water Fuel Cell then Short Circuiting it, the PLL will do this automatically... The reason Faradays Electrolysis gets Hot is because it is the Load, using the Stanley Meyer method the Load is external to the Water Fuel Cell, it still uses Amperage but externalises the Heat/EM Losses component into a Light Bulb... It's like Charging a Battery and it gets Hot because it is the Load while its Charging but, when you discharge the Battery like in a Laptop the Pentium Chip gets Hot because it's the Load and the Laptop Battery remains Cold to touch, so a Stanley Meyer Water Fuel Cell externalises the Load. Once you get this, then you'll get that the most efficient way to charge a Capacitor that stores Charge is to use Back EMF Im-Pulses then you'll see your efficiencies increase! ... It's all about externalising the Heat component then increasing the efficiency of the Cell, my Cells hooked up to a 3.25 KVA generator- if School Girls in Africa can build this SHIT with Junk Parts anyone in the Western World can build this!?
... The simplest way for you to hook it up is, instead of the PLL Switch going to the Cell, you need to remove that Switch. You need to directly Switch your Optocouple so you need to remove that Switch and Solder it up yourself because it is a NEGATIVE Switch. Your just making it hard for yourself not removing the Switch from your PPL Circuit because you need that Positive Signal. Once this is done you'll have Two POSITIVE Switch outputs: 1. The Light Emitting Diode & 2. The Positive Signal that previously Switched the NEGATIVE Switch that you have now removed. SIMPLE! If you built your own SCR Circuit you can easily build another one OK. ... You need a NPN so you can collect the Back EMF Im-Pulses off the NEGATIVE at Switch Closure using Blocking Diodes on the Negative. ... You also need a PNP and what this does is it only Switches ON when the Pin is NEGATIVE so the same signal Switches Two separate Switches. The NPN Charges the Cell with Back EMF Im-Pulses and the PNP Short Circuits the Cell with a Light Bulb on the Positive of the Cell to CONSUME all Amperage from the Water Fuel Cell... Its NOT Rocket Science!?


All you do is remove it and you need the Potentential and the Neutral and you can use the one signal to power two seperate Opto-Couples with one Opto for the NPN which has Diodes off the Negative of a Coil to collect the Back-EMF Im-Pulses that go to the Positive of your Water Fuel Cell and the Negative Side of your Water Fuel Cell is connected to the Positive Side of your Coil... I know this sounds like it doesn't make sense but, the Water Fuel Cell is only being Charged with Back EMF Im-Pulses when the NPN closes. then seperate to this the other Opto is for the PNP which has a Light Bulb on the Positive Side of the Water Fuel Cell then the PNP. SO WHEN THIS IS FED WITH A SQUARE WAVE YOU GET AN ALTERNATING SIGNAL : P, N,P, N, P, N, P ECT.  you can even Postulate the OFF NPN's Back-EMF Im-Pulse takes place while the Short Circuit PNP is On and therefore the Light Bulb is powered by the Back EMF Im-Pulse but it can't because theres no Amperage therefore the Amperage can only come from the Water Fuel Cell Capacitor. during its Short Circuit. You'll know when its built right"



it took a while, but here is my schematic on how i think you can explain what the videomaker is doing.
I use back emf for charging the WFC, as i have done years ago, so i know it works.
In addition, i added the EEC in such a way that the charging of the coil and the discharging of the WFC are in Phase 1.
In Phase 2, the WFC gets the BEMF to charge.

I added the lawton pll output from the hef4050b chip pin2. If the mosfet is still on the board then please remove it (62N15P). Pin 2 goes to that mosfet....
BTW, any other squarewave frequency generator will work. It doesnt have to be a PLL Lawton board.
Feel free to ask any questions.......

cheers!
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2018, 00:00:21 am
and here the simulator text file. For the simulator link, see on top of the Forum, on the right.

$ 1 0.000005 10.20027730826997 50 5 50
l 128 128 128 208 0 2 0.12250194451059382
c 224 128 224 208 0 0.000009999999999999999 -0.00004304064313487288
w 128 208 128 256 0
g 128 288 128 336 0
w 128 208 224 208 0
d 224 128 128 128 1 0.805904783
f 400 160 336 160 8 1.5 0.02
w 336 128 336 144 0
w 336 176 336 208 0
f 192 272 128 272 0 1.5 0.02
d 496 272 192 272 1 0.805904783
d 496 160 400 160 1 0.805904783
w 496 160 496 272 0
R 496 272 560 272 0 2 40 5 0 0 0.5
w 224 128 336 128 0
r 224 208 336 208 0 5
d 128 48 96 80 1 0.805904783
d 128 48 160 80 1 0.805904783
d 96 80 128 128 1 0.805904783
d 160 80 128 128 1 0.805904783
g 128 48 208 48 0
v 32 48 32 112 0 1 40 200 0 0 0.5
w 32 48 160 80 0
w 32 112 96 80 0
o 1 64 0 4099 80 1.6 0 2 1 3
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2018, 22:56:15 pm
More info:

I use the Ion Generator from Oatley Electronics (Australia) to Negatively Charge the intake Air.

How the Covalent OFF Switch works!

Radiant Energy is basically Back-EMF & the purpose of the 8XA Tesla Choke is to dampen the Back-EMF Im-Pulses from detonating (Exploding) the Water. Meyer explains that the High Voltage Field induces ‘Electron Movement’ within the Water Molecules/Atoms causing the Water to Split. In 2005 Naohiro Shimuzu discovered that ultra-short pulses with a width of 300ns has the ability to Split Water. The dominant theory is that, of a Bloch Wall being a pure Potential Field that exists at the centre of the Electrodes that effects the Covalent Bond Electrons (Consumed by a Light Bulb) & this causes the Water to breakdown into HHO Gases.

All you do is you take Water & you expose it to Radiant Energy (Back EMF Im-Pulses) & you get FREE Electricity by the Water Fuel Cell Capacitor acting as a Converter compressing this Radiant Energy into Amperage during the ‘Short Circuits’ & a by-product of this process is FREE HHO Gases.

Basically if NO Electrons are entering from the Cathode, then the Electrons are then ‘RIPPED’ from the Water to fill the Holes in the Anode & as you pull Covalent Bond Electrons from the Water, the Water Molecules will Break Down into HHO Gases. First you’ll have an Ionisation when Water loses one Electron & then you’ll get a Dis-Association when they lose two Electrons. All the Electrons are built up & then they’re drawn off from the Circuit in what is known as the ‘Electron Extraction Circuit’ & this Energy is powering a Light Bulb & an optional Battery Array.

So you get FREE DC Current off the Water Fuel Cell in direct proportion to the amount of HHO Gases that is produced. You could have a Water Fuel Cell & the Current that comes off this Charges a Battery Array & the Batteries could be connected to an Inverter that then Powers an entire House. Allot of people have already used these extracted Electrons from Water to power Motors & Fans.

Firstly Water is an Un-Limited supply of Covalent Bond Electrons & then Secondly as a by-product of this ‘Electron Extraction’ FREE HHO Gases are produced. The decomposition of Matter is really about the Decomposition of ‘Creation’ & then using these extracted Covalent Bond Electrons as a Power Source. The significance of this is ‘Mind Blowing’. A Tesla application of this Technology was called the Cathode Ray Propulsion which decomposes Matter in the direction of Travel. I’d read about the theoretical aspects of this back in the early 90’s which just seemed too Fantastic to believe way back then.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2018, 23:59:48 pm
is nice to see the way people try to explain

i could not understand what he meant however

unfortunately this is not the science language so is kind of hard to get what he meant for sure... is like reading about the color of a giraffe or zebra...

the 300ns pulse is one good point... and is what is the timescales i´m working on!

this is the timescales where water will behave as capacitor (being the water pure!)

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2018, 16:33:08 pm
Like 10 years ago, somebody who was very good in this Meyer technology said: Steve, you need to go higher in voltage when you pulse a coil.
More then 100v.
He also said that the system would create electricity and that the hho gas was more like a by product....

Now we are trying to setup a bemf system with an eec circuit, i more and more understand it.

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 05:24:52 am
the only way of doing this i think may be generating the potential from inside !

this way the h2 o2 will be a consequence!

i once tried to create a project that should work with MHD i dont know if you remember... this is a way to directly induce the power into water and get the amps out of it but i didnt completed it because it required more money and i remained with none...

the idea is to use magnets and make the water to pass thru them having electrodes to collect the electricity

i think wave energy could do this job too if we could place in there, the plates must be above one volt to discharge .

there are some ways to generate electromagnetic fields! when we change an electric field, or a magnetic field a electromagnetic field is generated for example

there are microwaves etc

i think if we wanted to use microwaves it would require some special cell to act as resonant cavity for the frequency

i believe we should use a frequency that would not heat the water much.. so the water can be tranparent to it

is there any company who design microwaves for industry that we could get some help from?

maybe ask hey how i can get a microwave thru water and capture the electric field and direct to a load?

i believe its pretty much what they do on that ´paper i posted but they dont show anything


Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 05:46:53 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d73d3zY8T5Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d73d3zY8T5Q)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 09:41:18 am
quote:


As your voltage source moves past zero deg. it has 0 volts of output. However, the voltage is increasing quickly. So, the electric field strength in the dielectric of the cap is changing quickly, and as the field get's stronger, it pushes more electrons out fo the positive side plate (due to increasing electric force on them created by the field). It's important here to realize that a cap is an open circuit essentially, just a specially shaped one. Therefore, current does not flow through a capacitor (ideal one here, we can talk about effect of leakage later if you like), but rather to or from one plate or the other. This causes an electric field to build in the dielectric which affects the free electrons on the other plate via electric force. To explain all that physics, we need to get into Guass' law, etc. so I won't do that here. Each plate is a relatively large chunk of conductive metal, so lots of free electrons exist in it. Many many more than are involved in a reasonable level of current flow. So, the voltage difference between plates, generated by your source will push free electrons from the negative side of the source onto the plate it's connected to. This builds an electric field within the dielectric of the cap such that electrons are pushed by the electric force out of the opposite plate. The circuit carries them back to the positive leg of your source. As more and more charge is pushed into the negative plate, the field grows stronger and more electrons are pushed off the other plate. However, since the rate of change of voltage is slowing as we reach max voltage (at 90 deg), our field strength is still increasing, but more slowly all the time. For that reason, fewer and fewer electrons are pushed off the positive plate per unit time (so current flow is getting smaller). At the point of max voltage, the rate of voltage change is zero, so there are zero more electrons being pushed off that positive plate. At that point the voltage begins to fall ,and the field weakens. This allows some of the pushed out electrons from the positive plate to come back into it. As the voltage rate of change accelerates and the voltage itself falls back toward zero volts, the rate at which electrons return to the positive plate accelerates (current rises). When the voltage is at zero, it's changing at it's max rate, so you have max current flow in the circuit (electrons are coming back to the plate as fast as they ever will for this circuit). The other half of the waveform (negative lobe of the voltage sinusoid) is the same, but switch the plates I'm calling negative and positive since voltage reverses at this point (current doesn't of course, it reversed at the 90 deg point, and will again at 270).

I suppose it could be written up more elegantly, but do you get my meaning here. Can you picture the effect of the field within the cap's dielectric and it's relationship to to electrons flowing out of or into the plates? (positive and negative voltages are not really that, they just indicate that they are associated with current vectors of opposite direction)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 10:42:42 am
i know the gauss law and etc.. but i could not understand exactly what you mean?.. when we add dielectric between the plates we decrease the attraction between the electrons and their respective positive charges on the other electrode.. this allow more electrons with a lower potential..

your talking about that bemf of the cell? when we switch the pulse off? when the cell is conductive?

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 16:10:00 pm
i just remember about parametric change... this is another way to amplify power... for example we charge the capacitor and after the capacitance is charged it change to a lower value somehow.. this would increase the voltage and such as the energy into it! this would allow for having power amplification!!!
 
i was thinking about those amps meyer talks coming from the ecc

i´m not that sure if he was generating power or if he was compressing it..

after all i started to think about what if he was just talking about peak amps of the pulse forming system discharge? and not average 100amps... could it be possible?

anyway this would create serious ionization if used right!



Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 16:10:47 pm
i´m having a feeling that i should stop what i´m doing and just test the things ...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 18:55:39 pm
you learn from testing.....

What i ment was that i think to understand that when we discharge a watercell, i removes free electrons from the blochwall and so on....
So more current and voltage out then in.....

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 22, 2018, 23:51:02 pm
I need to open my cell, reconstruct the filter adding a pump back to it.. and get the circuit together again... i have everything over my desktop here but is a little hard to defy the lack of ability to pay bills with interests

anyway you are correct although thinking about can lead to many questions this can only be partially answered thinking.. the only way to confirm is testing!

hopefully i´m developing with this time some calm and abilities to do some different readings than i did in the past

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 00:47:07 am
listen to this....
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 02:38:10 am
this is interesting patent to take a look too man! https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060180473A1/en?inventor=John+St.+Clair&page=9 (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060180473A1/en?inventor=John+St.+Clair&page=9)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 03:38:58 am
he said the cathode is insulated in delrin? where in meyer docs we see that? whos this guy?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 03:44:59 am
 i know what looks like but i dont really trusted the guy... he seems to know too much about everything so little hard to believe.. however is a good idea about the cathode insulation but it become a dbd could it be able to fracture the molecules? well the fracture cell says it can

what you think about this ?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 12:37:00 pm
this is interesting patent to take a look too man! https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060180473A1/en?inventor=John+St.+Clair&page=9 (https://patents.google.com/patent/US20060180473A1/en?inventor=John+St.+Clair&page=9)

i wonder if he ever showed a working model
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 12:41:26 pm
i know what looks like but i dont really trusted the guy... he seems to know too much about everything so little hard to believe.. however is a good idea about the cathode insulation but it become a dbd could it be able to fracture the molecules? well the fracture cell says it can

what you think about this ?

12 years ago, he was a known figure in the OU world.
I just found it intresting that he also uses bemf pulses and eec circuit to create electricity.
The hho as a by product is a bonus.

To be honest, i dont care if he used an insulated kathode. If i am back home in 2 months, i will build two test cells which one has an insulated kathode and the othe one not.
Easy testing....
I want to see if i can get 100dc out at 1 amp....
That 100watts....
Even if it is pulsed.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 13:36:29 pm
Hello guys.
Interesting patent of the water generator you found!
I was reading it and it sounded very familiar.

look to the coils the way they are stacked and their position on the Hydrogen Gas Gun:

(https://s19.postimg.cc/e4ygpvyar/DSC_0027.jpg)

What a coincidence....
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 15:07:47 pm
that guy made just like meyer did ... he did lots of patents with somewhat related technology and gave parameters thru them for the realization of the principal that is the wormhole magnetic generator... in this patent he gave the 14 awg and 0.020 inch detail also that he tune to 60hz using external coil and capacitor but he uses a variable metal sheet capacitor

other parameters for this equipment are spread over the other patents

there is another patent of him that i didnt found that is the electric wormhole generator that he mentions in one of the patents but i could not find it ...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 23, 2018, 15:43:28 pm
i know what looks like but i dont really trusted the guy... he seems to know too much about everything so little hard to believe.. however is a good idea about the cathode insulation but it become a dbd could it be able to fracture the molecules? well the fracture cell says it can

what you think about this ?

12 years ago, he was a known figure in the OU world.
I just found it intresting that he also uses bemf pulses and eec circuit to create electricity.
The hho as a by product is a bonus.

To be honest, i dont care if he used an insulated kathode. If i am back home in 2 months, i will build two test cells which one has an insulated kathode and the othe one not.
Easy testing....
I want to see if i can get 100dc out at 1 amp....
That 100watts....
Even if it is pulsed.

I dont care too ! it appear to me that is only a matter of the capacitance you can get and voltage applied and frequency to get those amps and voltage at a load... it need to be 100Ohms

having the cathode insulated has two implications assuming he is talking about the negative electrode

the insulated part of the cell would get filled with positive charge water which remember me immediately the patent of meyer saying that  electrons will be ejected from the water bath.. basically as we charge the the delrin water will have positive from both sides

assuming that now we are talking about 20kv it will easily get lot of electrons out of water lets say we are forming H+ ions and charging the electrode with OH- ions

the limitation is only the capacitance

1 farad = 1 amp * 1 sec / 1 volt

meaning that if you apply 1 amps for one second it will increase the voltage by 1 or discharging 1 amp per second will decrease 1 volt of a 1 faraday capacitor

this mean that if you have a small cell you need a high frequency and voltage to get considerable amps ,, ok maybe is not what is needed,,

how ionizers work?

or how can we get away with the electrons? 

the only two ways i see is having one diode connecting the circuit to ground letting electrons go but not return

and  boiling of the electrons in a filament or negative high voltage needle (case of no ground) (the ions formed will however go to ground some time )

this will create an imbalance of charge since when we try to discharge the capacitor and coil back to the cell it wont have the electrons that cannot come back and the ions will necessarily react with water as they will be forced out of the electrode by the coils reversing voltage

on next cycle the opposite happen liberating electrons? this adsorb ions OH- maybe ionized by ejection and maybe with  strong enough pulse is possible to get it totally fractured 
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2018, 03:59:45 am
something just happen to occur to me

a  capacitor in series can be the same as an inductor in parallel !

both are high pass filters

both apply reverse voltage thru load on the discharge cycle..
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........NPN and PNP
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2018, 18:30:58 pm
Hi folks,


Here another version of a schematic for this setup.
After a request, i made a schematic with an NPN and PNP switch. The coil could be the 8xa...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 27, 2018, 15:58:33 pm
Here a schematic based in the dudes youtube film.
It is clear to me that he contradicts himself.
He says that he only used BEMF pulses, but in this schematic he also uses EMF.
Go have a look.

feature=youtu.be
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2018, 05:03:50 am
This man shows how to charge cap from 1,2V battery to 19V. Looks like with back EMF effect.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2018, 09:33:51 am
thanks for posting.
It is known that you can charge a cap that way.
Ill guess the trick is to short the wfc after a charge...
So, not really step charging but discharging...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 01:37:55 am
I'm really surprised you guys haven't figured this out yet.

The VIC is a program, a set of circuit instructions.

1.  Polarize the water
2.  At low voltage start regular electrolysis which in turn...
3.  Creates HHO gas.  The HHO gradually replaces the place of the water between the plates in the water capacitor which gradually decreases the capacitance of the WFC.
4.  Keep increasing the voltage gradually while adjusting resonance
5. Eventually the gas replaces all the water between the plates allowing the charge to sky rocket and use voltage to produce HHO.

Look up Ronnie Walker's forum for details.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 03:53:23 am
I'm really surprised you guys haven't figured this out yet.

The VIC is a program, a set of circuit instructions.

1.   At low voltage start regular electrolysis which in turn...
2.  Creates HHO gas.  The HHO gradually replaces the place of the water between the plates in the water capacitor which gradually increases the capacitance of the WFC.
3.  Keep increasing the voltage gradually while adjusting resonance
4. Eventually the gas replaces all the water between the plates allowing the charge to sky rocket and use voltage to produce HHO.

Look up Ronnie Walker's forum for details.

You are not even close to what goes on. There is no electrolysis in the process and it does not create HHO gas. 
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 04:10:08 am
Says the guy who hasn't got it to work yet.

Actually, the first part of the process requires electrolysis.  It switches over to voltrolysis after the gas replaces the water between the plates.  If you don't understand this, you will never get it to work.

The WFC is essentially a variable capacitor.  You need to understand that in order to design your VIC and pulsing circuit.  You need to design your coils to resonate with the variable WFC capacitor at specific low and high frequencies in the range of the WFC and then use your pulsing circuit to charge it starting at a low voltage at the lower frequency and then keep increasing the voltage gradually, tuning it as you go, up to the higher frequencies.

I actually missed the step of polarizing the water.  You need to start with this.  I have updated the list.  However, I have only given a very top level explanation here.  I do understand the full process, mostly from discovery and experimenting, and Ronnie Walker filled in a few gaps for me and explains it in more detail in his forum.  I'm not going to re-explain it all here.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 04:16:51 am
If you knew how it worked, you would know what actually comes out of it!.
Thanks for the entertainment!.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 04:18:10 am
I know what I have.

Have a nice day.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 06:01:39 am
Here's another little hint why you need electrolysis to start.

And it's actually why the chokes are slightly different from each other to allow a little current through.  If you choke off the current completely, you can't create any gas.  No gas, no ability to increase charge between the plates.  If you can't increase the charge, you can't pull the molecule apart. I'm sure everyone here has already figured out when you throw high voltage across the WFC that it only ever shows a small voltage when you measure it. That's because of current leakage in the water between the plates.  To stop the current leakage, you have to get rid of the water.  To get rid of the water, you use the electrolysis to start your process.

Your welcome.

Of course there is still more to it to get it going, but like I said, I'm not re-explaining the whole process here.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 09:25:29 am
thanks for all the posts here.
If somebody claims to have a working Meyer setup then why doesnt anybody take a little bit of time and post a video of it?
With some explanation in it.
Its that simple...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 10:47:49 am
it doesnt have to be on youtube.
Just upload it here.
And you can remove it after a day if you feel thr need...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 11:09:34 am
Timeshell do you have it working?
People have to learn to say "In my opinion"  until they can proove their theories.
IN MY OPINION Ronnie Walker just want attention and  maybe he believes that it works like he says. But where is it working? It is like Santa...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 12:47:34 pm
Due to health reasons, I am no longer actively working on this project.  This is why I haven't been seen here much in the last few years.  Like I said, I know what I have and am offering some hints.

Before discrediting us, read, learn and test the instructions he provides. There is a measure of intelligence required to make this project work.  It's not that it's incredibly difficult to understand however.  But, as I said earlier, the process is like a program. The VIC circuit, although appearing relatively simple, is actually specifically designed to accomplish several steps.  You need to be able to grasp this to move forward.  It will never work straight out of the box without proper understanding, design, testing, tweaking.

I really have no desire to get into a pissing match over this and will very happily disappear from this discussion.  I don't need the stress in my life over this.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 21:13:47 pm
Some people just want to see their or other's theories to be tested by others, because they are tired of wasting their own money,
others just make part of the "Ronnie Walkie-Talkie" team and want to defend his friend.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 22:57:51 pm
Well, you are certainly entitled to your opinion.

I've told you some of the most important parts of this project you need to know.

The fact also is, whether you do it yourself or I spoonfeed you, it won't change how much time or money you spend if you follow the directions.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 23:03:09 pm
I'm really surprised you guys haven't figured this out yet.

The VIC is a program, a set of circuit instructions.

1.  Polarize the water
2.  At low voltage start regular electrolysis which in turn...
3.  Creates HHO gas.  The HHO gradually replaces the place of the water between the plates in the water capacitor which gradually increases the capacitance of the WFC.
4.  Keep increasing the voltage gradually while adjusting resonance
5. Eventually the gas replaces all the water between the plates allowing the charge to sky rocket and use voltage to produce HHO.

Look up Ronnie Walker's forum for details.

i remember his ideas about starting with electrolysis.. but wouldn't  be the same as if there was just a small amount of water between the electrodes?

what forum of his you talk about? 

i think there lot of sense in starting with electrolysis ... if you read my last posts i´m starting to wonder if the hydrogen can be used to reduce the potential required for it...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 23:03:40 pm
Timeshell how could you get rid of all water between the tubes? it is impossible, even with amp leakage.
There is no such thing as "water capacitor" and there is no LC resonance between inductor and the supposed "capacitor".
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 23:05:11 pm
Timeshell how could you get rid of all water between the tubes? it is impossible, even with amp leakage.
There is no such thing as "water capacitor" and there is no LC resonance between inductor and the supposed "capacitor".

And that, sir, is exactly why you will never get this to work.

Look up Leyden Jar and other information about how capacitors work.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 23:07:35 pm
I'm really surprised you guys haven't figured this out yet.

The VIC is a program, a set of circuit instructions.

1.  Polarize the water
2.  At low voltage start regular electrolysis which in turn...
3.  Creates HHO gas.  The HHO gradually replaces the place of the water between the plates in the water capacitor which gradually increases the capacitance of the WFC.
4.  Keep increasing the voltage gradually while adjusting resonance
5. Eventually the gas replaces all the water between the plates allowing the charge to sky rocket and use voltage to produce HHO.

Look up Ronnie Walker's forum for details.

i remember his ideas about starting with electrolysis.. but wouldn't  be the same as if there was just a small amount of water between the electrodes?

what forum of his you talk about? 

i think there lot of sense in starting with electrolysis ... if you read my last posts i´m starting to wonder if the hydrogen can be used to reduce the potential required for it...

Don't over complicate it Fabio.  Remember Stan himself said KISS.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 23:27:02 pm
Show me ONE video of a water capacitor without any insulation sustaining voltage after switch off of voltage without inductors.
Only the newbies to this research will believe in that theory of the capacitor.
The only comparison possible to a capacitor is the work that is related to the plate area  and the distance between the two plates.
If you thing that you are another "walkie-talkie" show us a single video of it.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2018, 23:31:47 pm
Show me ONE video of a water capacitor without any insulation sustaining voltage after switch off of voltage without inductors.
Only the newbies to this research will believe in that theory of the capacitor.
The only comparison possible to a capacitor is the work that is related to the plate area  and the distance between the two plates.
If you thing that you are another "walkie-talkie" show us a single video of it.

Heh, that I can actually do.  I have a video from 8 years ago where my cell produces small amounts of gas WITH NO POWER ON IT.  :)  This is what happens when you know how to polarize the water.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 00:21:15 am
Lol.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 10:19:20 am
its almost Christmas...
Unles you are moslims, then you should know what the christmas thoughts are?

Hohoho  :)


Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 11:57:30 am
I´m all ears... i tried lot of things even very pure water

the best situation i got was with forced circulation of water where the resistance of the cell drop some

unfortunately nowadays i´m not good financial situation and having to work a lot to make the month so i´m having few time to work on it ... but i´m very intrigued about what we have discussed recently...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 12:46:32 pm
The type of water used is not important, just as Stan said.  When the water is polarized it can be charged.

This is because the chokes are used to restrict the amps, not block them entirely as some leakage is necessary to start the process.  Then as gas forms, the capacitance will start to decrease.  Start at lower voltage, like 2V.  Otherwise you won't have room to gradually increase the voltage and retune resonance as the capacitance decreases. This allows you to gradually maximize the charge.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 13:14:58 pm
its almost Christmas...
Unles you are moslims, then you should know what the christmas thoughts are?

Hohoho  :)

Here's a Christmas thought for you.  Jesus told Pontus Pilate his purpose was to bear witness to the truth.  So why does the world dishonor him by propogating lies about a fat man flying on a sleigh delivering gifts supposedly made by elves living at the North Pole to the children of the world?

I'm a Christan btw, but from a Christian religion that does not celebrate Christmas as there is no scriptural foundation or support for doing so.  It's not even the actual birth date of Jesus.  There is no truth in it. 
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 13:55:08 pm
From my experiments water behaves like a capacitor below 2V otherwise it acts like a resistor.
Set you PSU to 0.5V connect an ammeter with 1 to 100ma, rise the voltage 0.5V each time and wait, Needle will rise and drop again, but until you reach aprox 2V.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 14:07:54 pm
From my experiments water behaves like a capacitor below 2V otherwise it acts like a resistor.
Set you PSU to 0.5V connect an ammeter with 1 to 100ma, rise the voltage 0.5V each time and wait, Needle will rise and drop again, but until you reach aprox 2V.

That's because electrolysis of water starts at around 1.47V.  That's also why when you manage to get a charge on a polarized WFC that it will produce gas when no power is applied to it as long as the charge on the WFC is above 1.5V.  ;)

When I find the video I will show you.  I watched it fairly recently, but don't know where it is right now.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 14:29:25 pm
its almost Christmas...
Unles you are moslims, then you should know what the christmas thoughts are?

Hohoho  :)

Here's a Christmas thought for you.  Jesus told Pontus Pilate his purpose was to bear witness to the truth.  So why does the world dishonor him by propogating lies about a fat man flying on a sleigh delivering gifts supposedly made by elves living at the North Pole to the children of the world?

I'm a Christan btw, but from a Christian religion that does not celebrate Christmas as there is no scriptural foundation or support for doing so.  It's not even the actual birth date of Jesus.  There is no truth in it.

You got me there.
But even if you dont believe in the fatman or if Jesus was born on those dates, you can agree that the, sadly temporary,  thoughts  of doing good and being nice , is a good one.
We all should apply to that the whole year, from my point of view
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 14:30:32 pm
X-Blade, you are actually correct in one thing.  The final capacitance and resulting reaction we are looking for only happens once all the water is removed from the cell.  This is what the current leakage is used for.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 14:32:24 pm
its almost Christmas...
Unles you are moslims, then you should know what the christmas thoughts are?

Hohoho  :)

Here's a Christmas thought for you.  Jesus told Pontus Pilate his purpose was to bear witness to the truth.  So why does the world dishonor him by propogating lies about a fat man flying on a sleigh delivering gifts supposedly made by elves living at the North Pole to the children of the world?

I'm a Christan btw, but from a Christian religion that does not celebrate Christmas as there is no scriptural foundation or support for doing so.  It's not even the actual birth date of Jesus.  There is no truth in it.

You got me there.
But even if you dont believe in the fatman or if Jesus was born on those dates, you can agree that the, sadly temporary,  thoughts  of doing good and being nice , is a good one.
We all should apply to that the whole year, from my point of view

I'm pretty sure that's the way Jesus lived.  And look at all the miracles he performed throughout his 3 1/2 year ministry, including on the Sabbath which the religious leaders fought against.  He didn't perform good deeds only on holy days.  Hence to be followers of Jesus Christ, we need to live like him every day.  John 17:3
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 20:41:16 pm
so you should start with the cell 10% of water only? and maybe with something obstructing the output?

are you trying to say we should be electrolysing only steam?

wouldnt the delrin melt:? i already done a little damage at one cell connector for the heat it got on the damn spring..

perhaps isnt a bad idea to work with steam ...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 21:06:28 pm
KISS

This works as Stan describes.

Just normal water.  Plates/submerged.  No heat.  Not steam.  Water stays cold. Nothing special there.

The plate gap is important to be small.  With a tiny gap, it helps to capture the gas as it gets stuck between the plates or tubes making it easier to clear the water between them.  This in turn decreases the capacitance of the WFC requiring adjustment of the voltage and pulsing frequency.  Keep doing this until all water exits the tubes and voltage is at its peak.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 21:14:07 pm
?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 21:19:50 pm
?

Stan Meyer used this expression a number of times.


K eep
I t
S imple
S tupid

Not intending to be offensive here, but it's important not to try to over complicate this.  It's not that complicated beyond understanding the electronic fundamentals.

I keep updating my posts to try to be more accurate.  Keep checking my previous posts from page 19 forward.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 21:49:44 pm
Timeshell, how it is supposed to measure the resonance? From what I  saw from Ronnie, when we "supposed" hit the resonance current is at the maximum and only left is the wire resistance and the water bath resistivity (re).

My experiments showed me that when we wind it bifilar, with some sort of resin beween layers, at a certain frequency / condition, Voltage across each inductor reach high voltage and current rises higher than the secondary winding can reach when shorted.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 22:42:03 pm
This is where you need to have an understanding of resonant circuits, in particular LC circuits.  When an LC circuit is at its resonant frequency it will perform an action based on the configuration of the L (inductor) and C (capacitor).  It could either block that frequency, or only allow that frequency.  In the case of the VIC, all current is blocked at resonance by the chokes if the chokes are perfectly tuned to do so.  But they are not supposed to be perfectly tuned to block all current.  They need to be tuned to allow just enough current so that enough electrolysis can happen to empty the gap between the WFC plates/tubes of water.

This requires a very specific design of the coils so that the coils inductance is matched to the variable range of capacitance (based on dielectric value between air and water) of the WFC for the frequency range of the pulsing to be used.  And of course, the coils fields need to be opposing each other properly so that they resist each others current flow rather than assist it.  If necessary, resistors can also be added to correct any errors in the frequency just as in any other resonant circuit.  But of course, this can lead to losses of power as heat and should only be used only if necessary.

Coils don't need to be bifilar, but do need to be coupled correctly.

It is very useful to create a spreadsheet with the power equations to visualize how all this works.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 04, 2018, 23:13:52 pm
Let me see if I understand what you are saying:
Coils shares the same core (mutual inductance),  but they are opposing each other (L1 + L2 -2M ).
So, according to my (little) knowledge, the two coils act as a single coil in series with the "capacitor"?

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 01:00:10 am
Let me see if I understand what you are saying:
Coils shares the same core (mutual inductance),  but they are opposing each other (L1 + L2 -2M ).
So, according to my (little) knowledge, the two coils act as a single coil in series with the "capacitor"?

What you are saying essentially sounds correct if you mean the chokes effect on the WFC.  My setup, like Ronnie's, didn't use a single core like Stan's did.   Our set up, which admittedly seems a little weird to me, actually had the primary coupled with one choke on one core and the secondary coupled to the other choke on another core.  The net effect was the same however as the coils were oriented so that the collapsing fields opposed their neighboring coils (choke to secondary to choke) and had the effect of limiting the current.




Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 03:34:25 am
well so far nothing new bro it just seem like the old games Ronnie  used to play around... i dont mean to disrespect in any way but i´m into lot of good stuff and dont really want to lose time with puzzles... At that time Ronnie inspired some of us spend a lot of money on this 11 cell story and after all i felt like was left a side perhaps because i asked questions that he could not answer...

so if you have it working say clearly or say clearly that you dont have it... after that we can talk about infinite perhaps and hopefully get there together... i dont think playing games would help any way

if you take a look at my thread Retry 1001  there is some directions i created on how to match the impedance of the vic to the cell to force all the energy into water if i can say something... i have a good feelling about that..

nothing complicated.. i just think there must be a coil in parallel with the cell to be able to use all the vic energy.. 

if you want to take a look there it is http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,3226.0.html
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 03:49:52 am
Fabio, I'm not playing games.  I know how it works.  I have been watching a lot of ridiculous theories over the last few years.  But my own experimenting over the years supports the information that Ronnie has been providing before I met Ronnie.   My discoveries started when I first spoke to you 10 years ago.  And I have videos to prove my own experiments.

I'm offering clear information on my own results, but I'm not playing games either.  I'm not here for attention but to be helpful.  You haven't seen me here for a few years now and it's not because I didn't know these things a few years ago.

I will answer questions and provide guidance to those who want to know.  And quite frankly, I challenge everyone here to dispute with evidence anything I have offered against what Stan has taught in his videos and is written in his patents.  The fact of the matter really is, and I can see why it appears this way, that the only reason it looks like games to people is:
1.  They are looking for some of the work to be done for them
2.  They don't really understand what they are looking for in the first place

I don't say this to be offensive, but like you and everyone else, I got frustrated trying to find the final pieces of the puzzle.  Ronnie didn't even directly tell me what they were but helped me to discover them.  You cannot get this to work if you can't grasp the way it's supposed to work and the steps the VIC goes through to get there.

Like I said a couple days ago, I'm not going to get into an argument over this.  I am just as happy to disappear from this discussion if nobody really wants to know.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 04:13:44 am
I just want to let the situation be as clear as possible.. we all are here some since over 13 years now and ever since wanting to know...

people is not guilty of have not being so shine to figure for them selfs..

but be sure most here spend their money and time to try build it from their heart

i even went to the university to try learn more and be of more help and the result was a big dont work

i guess we even talk on skype few years ago =D

so i dont know what you expect from us but be sure if you give us something good we have not a sigle reason to not be forever thankfull to you

i dont expect getting all the work done and what i look for in this last years is a manner to improove our life reducing the demand for dirty energy...

i´m being as cristal as i can everytime i have something to say perhaps tomorow i dont have this chance again.. so after so much time lost i´m tired of puzzles and games to make and to play... i wrote more than 3000 posts so far is a lot of junk to digest

there is not a single reason to keep any knowledge for yourself

so please just show what you think you have, hopefully you indeed have something to share..

this is my feeling about ronnie perhaps he even found something but the fear prevented him to make the next step and find out if he found something meaningfull or something that most already did...

thats why i forgot about gaming with our co-workers...  is more usefull to only waste time to write usefull info instead of puzzles... questioning is aways good but if no one know the answer is a endless game with no winner...

hope you found something for real

we need this since a long ago

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 04:22:56 am
Fabio, I really feel your frustration for you and everyone else here.  Honestly, I don't know what else to tell you.  Stan has given the schematics for the VIC minus the inductance and capacitance values.  And rightly so because they will change based on the WFC being used.  All that is left is, what do you do with it.  And I have given you all the information you already need to know to do so.  As has Ronnie.

Make a spreadsheet in Excel or LibreOffice Sheets.

Make a section for each coil (primary, secondary, choke1, choke2)
Make a section for the WFC

Calculate the fequencies, voltages, resistances, impedances and reactances for each of these based on min and max values and sizes

Design your WFC and VIC coils in the Stan Meyer style with these parameters in mind.

This is almost ALL the information you need along with what I have already told you.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 04:31:00 am
nothing new

where is the effect? what is the effect? how much water you break per minute?

voltage? amps.. what is your cell...

everything you said we all individually already done..
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 04:44:21 am
Read from this post forward.

http://open-source-energy.org/?topic=876.msg36019#msg36019
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 05:21:10 am
well i agree with this idea... we actually were discussing about it... about having dc and pulsed dc over it but with an oposite bang to break the bonds .. i talked a lot and had no opportunity to finish yet..

you are electrical engineer too ?

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 05:30:53 am
I used this method to charge and maintain a charge on my cell and afterward remove the power to it and it then continued to produce gas without power.  I did this 8 or 9 years ago.  I have a video showing it.  At the time I didn't realize what I had.  I don't remember offhand, although I say it in the video, but I think it kept making gas for more than an hour or two.... maybe even longer.

I have an engineer's brain.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 14:21:40 pm
what you mean remove power? for how long it generated? vigorously?

how much power? what cell size? material?

i would love to see it ...where is the video?

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 14:39:33 pm
what you mean remove power? for how long it generated? vigorously?

how much power? what cell size? material?

i would love to see it ...where is the video?

I don't remember how long, but it was long enough to be a significant result.  It wasn't a mind blowing amount of gas, but it was very obvious that it was still being generated even though the electricity was turned off.  At that time, I was using a single cell, the inner pipe being 2" long, the outer pipe being 1" long.  314L with 304, don't remember which was which, but I think the inner tube was the 304.

At the time, I was theorizing the need for a continuous low voltage to be kept on the cell to keep the water molecules aligned.  I tried this a few ways and I don't remember the specific way I had done it.  But obviously it had a result.  I wrote about it before here at IonizationX.  At that time I called it priming the cell.  The idea was it needed an initial low, continuous charge to align the water just like an older water pump may need to be primed to work for the first time.  As Ronnie stated in the link I posted above, this is necessary in order to charge the cell.

He said:
Quote
You never want the voltage to fall below this voltage because it sets up the polarization process and low gas production and it can never be lost. As you can see this is a constant pulse voltage with no gating at all.

I'm trying to find the video.  I watched it a few months ago, but right now I don't remember where it is.  I will post it as soon as I find it.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 21:59:43 pm
Timeshell I still dont understand that part of two cores where primary is in different core than secondary... The choke coupled to the primary will be basically a secondary and the supposed secondary the real choke...
Damn, this is confusing...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 05, 2018, 22:35:24 pm
Timeshell I still dont understand that part of two cores where primary is in different core than secondary... The choke coupled to the primary will be basically a secondary and the supposed secondary the real choke...
Damn, this is confusing...

Yah, I hear you there...thing is, it works.  So, I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about it.

That's not to say it wouldn't work another way however.  The important thing is that the coils are properly designed for the corresponding reactances with the WFC for the desired frequency range.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 04:40:17 am
Could there be a chance Stan was ahead of Witricity with 2nd resonance technology or is it totally off base with that?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 06:16:21 am
look at this paper about high energetic events in water electrolys..
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 11:58:27 am
Could there be a chance Stan was ahead of Witricity with 2nd resonance technology or is it totally off base with that?

what do you mean ? i didnt understood...

TS

if the gas generated was so small in your test, how can you tell us that it were indeed working? 

ii already build some cells where it aparently was producing the gas still after the power was took out but after some minutes it was gone...

steve and i had lot of discussions about it while i was still living in europe...  at that time there was someone interested into the experiments we were running and they asked us about the gibbs free energy of the system we were working at

after some years i learned that sometimes can have a potential difference because the surface of the metal is somewhat different or is not the same composition... and it would force the generation of some gas to compensate...

i would really love to see the video with your effect to be able to understand if it was something we already see or if we should really dig into!

i hope you found something... what is just getting me worried is what you said about the low productivity

stan says that at 5khz it should convert galons of water with a 3inch cell

the closer i got to this was when in italy i applied unfiltered full wave  bridge rectified 220v to a pair of plates 10x20x4mm spaced like 8cm apart and it was able with 3 amps to evaporate 1 liter per hour... it was a very violent production with lot of steam but was hard to get the hydrogen to burn because of the water vapor.. between the plates there was a sponge from a microfone box  i was trying to use it to increase the resistance by reducing the water amount .. it was just tap water from italy (hard water)

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 12:28:23 pm
A successful theory of operation has to apply to both the gas processor as well as the water cell.  There aren't any electrolysis bubbles changing the capacitance of the gas processor stage, so that's not how Meyer's system works.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 12:54:06 pm
Fabio

1.  It wasn't a few minutes... It was hours.
2.  It wasn't just a trickle that slowed down over time but was constant.
3.  My outer pipe was shorter than the inner one.  Because of this, I'm pretty sure you could see new bubbles forming.

I'm hoping I show the voltmeter in the video... That would very nicely confirm what I'm telling you.  I've been looking all over for it, but can't seem to find it for some reason.  I found it by accident a few months ago, so I must have it in a place I've forgotten about.

At the time I made the video, I recorded specifically because I was seeing activities on the cell which I didn't see before.  I understand your skepticism.  I'm pretty sure you will change your mind when you see it.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 19:59:53 pm
Timeshell do you have the video?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 06, 2018, 20:45:35 pm
Timeshell do you have the video?

Still looking for it.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 08, 2018, 22:52:31 pm
Found it.  Keep in mind, I recorded this 10 years ago.  I don't mention it in the video, but I was likely using a dual charging method where I had a lower voltage superimposed by a higher voltage pulse; what I considered to be at the time "priming the cell".  Obviously my understanding was still limited at the time.  In the video, I say that it has been a couple minutes since I disconnected the power, but, as I mentioned before, I checked on the cell hours later and it was still producing gas.  I don't have a video showing this hours later however.  The reading on the voltmeter is interesting and I can't explain what's going on there as I'd expect a higher reading on the voltmeter with the amount of gas being produced in pure water.

Sorry it took so long.  It wasn't on any of my usual computers and I had to resort to recovering it from a dead drive using advanced recovery methods.

Anyway,  here it is:

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 02:06:58 am
Hey this is very nice to see.. thanks for looking up for the video...

the residual charge left on the tube was decreasing from the metter perspective

you said it keep like that for hours and that it was a 304 material with spring water? what is the characteristics of this type of water?

 really seem to me that the electrodes are discharging the charge left on them to the water it could do this until reach zero volts..

you also mentioned that it was charged for a long time before.. i wonder if you may not have electroplated some zinc on the electrode or some kind of metal from the water that later keep dissociating,,

i say this because is very few bubbles and they have a constant production and than stop




Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 02:14:31 am
I don't know any more specifics about the water except that the spring water is supposed to be natural so contains no chlorine.  It probably has some natural minerals in it.  Here is an example of a label about mineral content from bottled spring water:

INGREDIENTS
NATURAL SPRING WATER. DISSOLVED MINERAL SALTS: 180 PARTS PER MILLION. FLUORIDE IONS: 0.1 PARTS PER MILLION

I understand that electrolysis requires 1.47V minimum to start, so this is why I'm uncertain what to make of the meter reading.  There is obviously some kind of residual charge, but I don't know how to quantify it.

I was also using a self resonating radiant charging circuit to do this, not the Stan Meyer circuit.  The time period it was running I'm not certain about, but you do see the one pipe has white oxides on it.  Might have been several hours.

The cool thing about this however is I believe it suggests that the water is indeed polarized.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 06:45:59 am
It looks like its just discharging obviously because thers no voltage applied.
The geometry being tubes instead of flat plates also obviously formed a decent capacitor.
I dont know why nobody ever shows a cell being pulsed with 26 volts charging up to 1000 volts or more....thats the example Stan gave ?
The water polarizes as soon as a voltage is present...polarization simply means the hydrogen is attracted to the negative and the oxygen to the possitive....when voltage is present they become polarized...simple.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 09:31:18 am
It looks like its just discharging obviously because thers no voltage applied.
The geometry being tubes instead of flat plates also obviously formed a decent capacitor.
I dont know why nobody ever shows a cell being pulsed with 26 volts charging up to 1000 volts or more....thats the example Stan gave ?
The water polarizes as soon as a voltage is present...polarization simply means the hydrogen is attracted to the negative and the oxygen to the possitive....when voltage is present they become polarized...simple.


i agree here with Newguy...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 10:22:27 am
i believe when the circuit is open somehow the ions that were deposited on the electrode are being oxidized and becoming hydrogen lets research what could be those ions

to effectively polarize the molecules we need to reach a greater voltage since up to 1,23 v almos all the electric field is in the dual layer where there are no molecules only the free ions...

so to effectively polarize it it must get over it.. so meyer says he get up to 1000 v

is not really hard to get this voltage on water if i remember well i could have up to 2000ohms per cell so to really get 1000 volts it would only need 0.5 amps (de-ionized rain water)

this is 500W with that resistance range

you would just need a 500W 1000v transformer or pulse the coils with this amount of power

if working from 12v would require 41,666 amps ... so all you need is to pulse a coil with 41,666 amps basically and get this into the water thru a 83 times bigger coil

this would be the brute force

but if we use coils is possible to make them reach higher voltages for brief moments and maybe that is better for the job

a coil will develop unrestricted voltage if the current is not 0 and it is interrupted

the only restriction to the voltage is the power accumulated on the primary and the actual resistance of the interrupted path 

so basically theoretically not taking into count the other real world effects the voltage will be equal to the current times the resistance of the path so whatever coil with 0,5 amps could give 1000v to water?

in the real world coils have self capacitance and in our case water also is a capacitor so the thing is how much energy we need in the coil to get this voltage there and for how long will durate the discharge 

the time period for a coil to discharge its energy is dependent on its inductance and resistance so the greater is the resistance the shortest will be the discharge t=L/R it takes 5 time periods like this to full discharge

capacitors also have a time constant  t = C*R and also inductors and capacitor also have a resonant frequency= 1/2pi(L*C)^-1/2

so when you look at all this with the water capacitor you need to find first what is the energy it need to get 1000v than how much would cost of energy for second to maintain it from ohms law

in one patent meyer say something that made me understand that perhaps applying a pulse of greater voltage starting as a peak would make the current flow for the whole cycle



 



Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 12:42:42 pm
Well I definitely agree any voltage will tend to polarize the water.  I was more referring to it staying polarized when the charge is still there and no electricity is being directly applied.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 13:31:02 pm
Timeshell I thought we will see the cell working too
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 14:14:46 pm
I never said that.  I haven't been well for the last few years and am not actively pursuing this right now.  My video response was specific to your statement to show a charged cell.  My final understandings are as a result of years of past experiments confirmed and brought together in the end by Ronnie's work.  All my experiments lead me to conclude that his work is valid.  I have not been well enough to finish it although this conversation has been getting me tinkering again.  Maybe I'll get it running sometime, but I can't say when that will be.

If anyone is interested, this is the platform for my current WFC.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2967526

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 14:17:59 pm
Both electrodes are stainless steel? the outer one looks like aluminium, or oxidized...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 14:19:55 pm
The outer one is 316L with an oxide layer.  The inner one is 304.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 14:28:38 pm
Pics of the work I've done over the past few days.  I need new coils and am waiting on some carbon fiber filament to arrive to print new bobbins.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 14:32:48 pm
what kind of oxide layer? you deposited something specific?

Very nice still.. but i was also hoping to see some more gas.. =D but its totally fine

very good to know you are back in the team TS ... hope you are fine!

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 14:34:50 pm
No, the oxide layer built up on its own using the self resonant circuit.  It did produce more gas when the electricity was plugged in btw.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 15:56:59 pm
It looks like its just discharging obviously because thers no voltage applied.
The geometry being tubes instead of flat plates also obviously formed a decent capacitor.
I dont know why nobody ever shows a cell being pulsed with 26 volts charging up to 1000 volts or more....thats the example Stan gave ?
The water polarizes as soon as a voltage is present...polarization simply means the hydrogen is attracted to the negative and the oxygen to the possitive....when voltage is present they become polarized...simple.

Ronnie claims to have done the same thing feeding 3 to 4 volts into his primary.  I believe it.  I have pulsed my primary with 8 to 9 volts and have had 2kV pulses going into the cell through my VIC 3 years ago.  I disconnected the lead going to the cell and manually touched it to the cell connectors and had some pretty cool sparks happening.  This was around the time that I paused my activity due to health issues.  I wasn't making any significant new videos at that time other than some wave forms on my scope.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 09, 2018, 20:58:09 pm
I'm hoping everyone working on this has done this, but if not, here is something you should all do.  Make a spreadsheet to define the following information.

1.  Your WFC capacitance with air.  Measure this BOTH ways as it will not be the same.
2.  Multiply  your results in step 1 by 78 to get the water capacitance value
3.  You will need the AWG spec.
4.  Based on values of steps 1 and 2, create equations to give you information to create coils that will provide resonant frequencies within the range of 100 Hz to 10 kHz for BOTH air and water capacitances for BOTH sides of the WFC.  This will mean that your chokes will have different sizes based on each side of the WFC.  While there is still water in the gap, the mismatched chokes sizes will allow current flow through the water to produce gas to replace the water.  When the water in the gap is replaced by gas, this will then allow resonance to occur with the same frequency on both sides of the WFC.
5.  Impedance matching for efficient power transfer.

Using this information, you should be able to calculate appropriate coil information that will be suitable with a low frequency when there is water in the WFC and when the water is replaced by gas in the WFC at a high frequency.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2018, 19:35:54 pm
Timeshell the LC circuit is supposed to be between one choke and the "capacitor" or the sum of the coils (mutual inductance) and the "capacitor"?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2018, 21:16:00 pm
Timeshell the LC circuit is supposed to be between one choke and the "capacitor" or the sum of the coils (mutual inductance) and the "capacitor"?

Good question.

Treat each side of the WFC like it's its own capacitor.

So, if you measure your WFC (or calculate; measuring it should give you a similar result) one way, let's say it gives you 25pF.   When you reverse the meter leads, it should give you a different result, such as 30pF.  So, as an example, to have a frequency of 5kHz on both sides, the side that measures 25pF would need a coil of 40.528H and the side of 30pF would need a coil of 33.774H.

This doesn't include the secondary which you will also need.

BUT, there is more to it than that.  You need to select a wire gauge that will give you a suitable resistance for the length of wire you use to create the coil for impedance matching to maximize power transfer to the WFC.  And do some research into the reactance of capacitors and coils.

You really should measure each tube pair of your water cell and make sure that they are very close to equal values as you can reasonably get them.  Then add up their capacitances using the equation for capacitors in series which should be the total value of your WFC.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2018, 04:27:31 am
Does the resonance feed back and drive the Primary like Puharich?
This is the drive I get from the feedback off of one leg of Puharich.
I think anyaways....just tryn to learn so try not be 2 mean :)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2018, 13:22:39 pm
That could eventually be added to it, but isn't necessary to get it going.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2018, 19:25:15 pm
Timeshell I measured 1 pair of tubes in both ways and the capacitance is rhe same, as expected. I really dont understand your point. It just dont make sense to me.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2018, 19:37:55 pm
Unless the surface diameter of the inside of the outer tube is EXACTLY the same as the surface diameter of the outside of the inner tube, this really shouldn't be the case.

This is the kind of capacitance meter I am using:
https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=200215818&initiative_id=AS_20181212103957&SearchText=lc100-a
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2018, 20:04:15 pm
Im using an uni-t lcr meter.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2018, 01:55:46 am
Im using an uni-t lcr meter.

Youre not forming a good capacitor then maybe?
2 cents aint worth a nickle i know but ....
Timeshell makes complete sense with that.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2018, 02:17:28 am
Not all capacitance meters are as accurate as they should be.  Ronnie referred me to the type I have the link for.  I'll make a video showing it working soon.

A reminder that not only should the reading be different in both directions, but you actually want it that way.  Otherwise, you won't have a difference in the chokes and then you will end up completely blocking the current which you don't want to do.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2018, 04:27:21 am
Make sure if you had your tube pair wet that you dry them well. If there is water between them still it can skew your reading.


Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2018, 19:13:24 pm
Timeshell, thank you for your effort to show us this.

But, should we trust in a 10 dollar meter ?
Do you have access to a more reliable meter such as a fluke or other trusted equipment?
This modules uses the LC combination for measurement, others uses the RC scheme for capacitance measuring.
My meter does not show any difference thats why I am asking you for it.

Cheers
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 05:41:56 am
Timeshell, thank you for your effort to show us this.

But, should we trust in a 10 dollar meter ?
Do you have access to a more reliable meter such as a fluke or other trusted equipment?
This modules uses the LC combination for measurement, others uses the RC scheme for capacitance measuring.
My meter does not show any difference thats why I am asking you for it.

Cheers
May not mean much but its understandable i suppose  ...capacitance is measured with a current flow from possitive to negative right? IF the possitive is bigger in diameter ....ehh * f * it lol...check a factory electrolytic capacitor and reverse the leads or something and see if you get the same reading...sense x blade isnt getting different readings he needs another example than a wfc.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 05:51:43 am
An electrolytic capacitor might not have different size electrodes.  I'll try to demo my cap meter with a variety of caps soon.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 18:43:19 pm
Timeshell thank you for the time you spend to explain that.
In my point of view it does not matter to much, since the pulses "hitting" the cell are always unipolar according to Meyer description.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 19:40:47 pm
Yes and no.  Because of the diode, the current will primarily go in one direction.  However, because the WFC is between two coils, it will still resonate between them.  This is why the chokes must be precisely tuned.  You will not get the high voltage climb on a pure DC circuit without the AC resonance.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:05:30 pm
I dont thing so, it cannot resonate with the diode.
When terminates the pulse the coils colapse producing an unipolar pulse.
This is a simple DC resonant charging not an oscillator.
People who tested it can confirm what I am saying.
The fantasy of "resonance" of LC died a few years ago.
The only possible "resonance" is between each choke inductance/capacitance.

The "Ronnie Walkie-Talkie" has gone now.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:21:11 pm
Ok.  Keep doing it your way. Let me know when you get it working.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:34:28 pm
Im still researching Offline, because there is a lot od "distractions" and disinformation.
Im following what I see it does, based on Meyer desciptions, not following Ronnie talkie stupid theories.
One step a time, form the earlier devices of electrical polarization process, following patents lectures and the technical brief.
People thing that they will do magic just tuning the LC... lol
My experiments showed me that, at least with water in the cell it will act as a pure resistance, more than that I will not say about that.
The Second pulse of the colapsing inductor(s) and the step charge I can confirm, but it is not related to the cell capacitance.


(https://i.postimg.cc/L8B29MDY/pic-105-4.gif)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:45:00 pm
Look close to the VIC Matrix circuit description on the tech. brief:

(https://i.postimg.cc/G3GY1qVB/cap-react.gif)

Is this a real capacitor reactance or is just a resistive value?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:45:36 pm
I am going to emphasize most of my understanding is from my own experiments.  There are only a few pieces of information that Ronnie introduced that helped me bring all my own work together.  I'm not just repeating Ronnie's ideas as you've seen some of my work that I did long before I met Ronnie, which was only 5 years ago.  Most of my experimenting was well before that.  But I will also give credit where credit is due.

I'm not here to argue.  So, I'll gracefully step aside for now.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:46:46 pm
Look close to the VIC Matrix circuit description on the tech. brief:

(https://i.postimg.cc/G3GY1qVB/cap-react.gif)

Is this a real capacitor reactance or is just a resistive value?

Real capacitive reactance.  It's why I stated to do research on it.

Remember there are two steps to making this work.

The first involves the water resistance.

The second involves capacitive reactance.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:52:37 pm
Lol what is the Rs+Re?
Is this  a real reactance to you?

Rs - The coil wire resistance
Re - The resistive value of water (supposed to be 78.54 ohm)

Look, Im not here do do some "di.ck  comparisons" but to talk about the facts.
If you think that the cell acts as a real capacitor, just hook it to a  freq. gen. with sweep function without the inductors and measure the impedance...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 20:55:24 pm
It acts like a real capacitor when there is no water in it.  We've already established that.

I've also shown a WFC that held a charge after power was disconnected.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 21:02:36 pm
Timeshell, yes you are right. But in pratice you cannot convert all the water to gas to tune to the LC frequency,  water is allways entering to the cavity.
The cell with water behaves like a real capacitor below 2 Volts, up from that the electrolysis starts and the water starts to behave as a non linear load, the more you rise the voltage without restricting amps, the less the resistance and more conductivity.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 21:14:20 pm
Timeshell, yes you are right. But in pratice you cannot convert all the water to gas to tune to the LC frequency,  water is allways entering to the cavity.
The cell with water behaves like a real capacitor below 2 Volts, up from that the electrolysis starts and the water starts to behave as a non linear load, the more you rise the voltage without restricting amps, the less the resistance and more conductivity.

Excellent.  I agree almost 100%.  Now, use that information to get to the next step.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2018, 21:35:07 pm
now its getting intresting  ;)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2018, 03:16:38 am
NewGuy, normal electrolysis does start at just under 2V.  Breaking the water with just a voltage field is what requires a much higher voltage pulse.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2018, 05:18:38 am
NewGuy, normal electrolysis does start at just under 2V.  Breaking the water with just a voltage field is what requires a much higher voltage pulse.
Ten 4...im gonna try to stay out of this one...i hope thers some real new guys that will input something :)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2018, 16:49:37 pm
Here is a sample of my WFC calculations.   Notice the capacitance differences between the inner and outer tubes when the equations are adjusted for each tube's capacity.

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 16:57:03 pm
The actual circuit is a series circuit. Basically the choke and the other coil are in series with the cell which is a capacitance. So if you get the values right and a frequency, you should end up with a resonant circuit. The tapped inductor is to fine tune the circuit, you only have half wave rectification pulses, started by triggering the SCR. There is a better way to do this.
However what the object here was to get the circuit in resonance, this then make the current drawn only by the value of the total resistance in the two coils at a resonant frequency
Can you let me know now the value of the choke that you are using, that is the DC resistance, the impedance if you can measure it can be measured, and I would need to know the inductance of the choke.   The cell will have a capacitance as well, with no power on it see if you can get the capacitance it needs to be filled as if you were going to turn it on.

What you can get if this are done in a particular way, it seems that you have 24ohms in the circuit or impedance.
If you did put the choke in parallel with the cell this would make a resonant circuit of the cell and the choke,  so with power applied then of a pulsed half wave would then create a closed circuit around the cell and the choke, and at a resonant frequency there would be high circulating current through the choke and the cell, so for a low input of power you will get a bigger output due to the circulating currents.
The choke and the cells capacitance must be found out, the chokes DC resistance needs to be as low as you possibly can get it this would have large gauge wire, example make sure that the wire that is connected across the cell and the choke are heavy, example, 12v / 0.1ohm is 120amps  at the resonant frequency.
hope this helps Brian
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 17:35:39 pm
The actual circuit is a series circuit. Basically the choke and the other coil are in series with the cell which is a capacitance. So if you get the values right and a frequency, you should end up with a resonant circuit. The tapped inductor is to fine tune the circuit, you only have half wave rectification pulses, started by triggering the SCR. There is a better way to do this.
However what the object here was to get the circuit in resonance, this then make the current drawn only by the value of the total resistance in the two coils at a resonant frequency
Can you let me know now the value of the choke that you are using, that is the DC resistance, the impedance if you can measure it can be measured, and I would need to know the inductance of the choke.   The cell will have a capacitance as well, with no power on it see if you can get the capacitance it needs to be filled as if you were going to turn it on.

What you can get if this are done in a particular way, it seems that you have 24ohms in the circuit or impedance.
If you did put the choke in parallel with the cell this would make a resonant circuit of the cell and the choke,  so with power applied then of a pulsed half wave would then create a closed circuit around the cell and the choke, and at a resonant frequency there would be high circulating current through the choke and the cell, so for a low input of power you will get a bigger output due to the circulating currents.
The choke and the cells capacitance must be found out, the chokes DC resistance needs to be as low as you possibly can get it this would have large gauge wire, example make sure that the wire that is connected across the cell and the choke are heavy, example, 12v / 0.1ohm is 120amps  at the resonant frequency.
hope this helps Brian

There is NOTHING about this system that should be "found out".  The entire system needs to be designed exactly the same way as you would design any electronic circuit to do a specific thing(s).  This means you need to calculate voltage, current, inductances, reactances, impedances, resistances, capacitance, frequencies.  Even the wire resistance matters.  And most importantly, you need to know WHAT you are designing and HOW it is supposed to work.  Otherwise you are just shooting in the dark.  ALL these things need to be designed very specifically to get the result we're looking for.

How it's supposed to work can be found starting on this page:
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,3221.144.html
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 21:41:22 pm
Timeshell I am not so certain about that.

As I already said, I cant see the WFC acting as a capacitor or being reactive like a capacitor.
It looks to me like a load and nothing more.
Since it have the diode In-line it cant act another way than the DC resonant charging circuit.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:01:58 pm
Timeshell I am not so certain about that.

As I already said, I cant see the WFC acting as a capacitor or being reactive like a capacitor.
It looks to me like a load and nothing more.
Since it have the diode In-line it cant act another way than the DC resonant charging circuit.
Well, my 2 cents: the cell holds a charge. For that it is a capacitor/condensor.
The other cent: i posted many many lightyears ago a picture of the negative voltage peak produced by the cell when the dc was removed from it.
That negative pulse can be collected and re-used.
In the days, i used that pulse to charge the rotor of my alternator setup.....

For me, that negative bemf pulse of the cell was strong enough to charge a 5v/2a rotor coil.....
Use that pulse in a serie of parallel coil setup ala meyer....

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:11:15 pm
Timeshell I am not so certain about that.

As I already said, I cant see the WFC acting as a capacitor or being reactive like a capacitor.
It looks to me like a load and nothing more.
Since it have the diode In-line it cant act another way than the DC resonant charging circuit.

X-Blade, what you are saying doesn't make sense to me.  Resonance is a result of a frequency.  Yes, the diode makes the circuit unidirectional, so in effect DC.  BUT, because there is a coil between the WFC capacitor and the diode, it will resonate between those two components.  That resonance in this section of the circuit is in effect is obviously the same as AC at resonance and we all know AC is current alternating at a frequency.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:12:11 pm
Steve, our great Steve.

Yes, it hold a charge but below 2 Volts, above that electrolysis starts, and conductivity rises in a non-linear way.
I never experienced this BEMF from the cell, maybe because I dont use any electrolyte than the minerals and contaminants present in the natural water.

Aussepom welcome back and thank you for your input.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:28:10 pm
Timeshell BECAUSE THE DIODE coils simply store energy in form of magnetic field not allowing the current to flow intantaneous, and when pulse terminates, it colapses producing an unipolar pulse in the same direction.
Other thing than that, in my opinion, is pure fantasy of people who thing they know everything without real bench testing.
The only oscillation I experienced in this condition was the Self-resonance of both inductors due to the parasitic capacitance.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:30:49 pm
Timeshell BECAUSE THE DIODE coils simply store energy in form of magnetic field not allowing the current to flow intantaneous, and when pulse terminates, it colapses producing an unipolar pulse in the same direction.
Other thing than that, in my opinion, is pure fantasy of people who thing they know everything without real bench testing.
The only oscillation I experienced in this condition was the Self-resonance of both inductors due to the parasitic capacitance.

X-Blade
The circuit is not continually producing DC current.  It is being pulsed by the primary which in effect is AC.  The diode is rectifying the AC on the AC frequency.  But on the off pulse, the coil behind the diode WILL resonate with the capacitor.  You can prove this in a circuit simulator.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:38:02 pm
Steve, our great Steve.

Yes, it hold a charge but below 2 Volts, above that electrolysis starts, and conductivity rises in a non-linear way.
I never experienced this BEMF from the cell, maybe because I dont use any electrolyte than the minerals and contaminants present in the natural water.

Aussepom welcome back and thank you for your input.
I am just an old man who used a tall tube cell with tap water....
No electrolytes, with a standard alternator.

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:47:27 pm
Timeshell forget this simulators they are not that good as you may thing.
I got a lot of experiments on multisim that prove very deceiving in real world, even with real capacitors.
All I post here is from bench tests.

From my experiments there will be allways DC unidirectional pulses, and as Meyer said when the pulse terminates, the coils procude another pulse in the same direction:
(https://i.postimg.cc/sgrXDqpt/pic-105-4-onoff.gif)
(https://i.postimg.cc/XvMtNp05/IMG-20161026-203138.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/28gKstVN/meyer-vic.png)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:51:12 pm
At this point, I can only say I'll agree to disagree.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:56:41 pm
Just to make point....2 pictures of my early work
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:58:48 pm
For people who are seeking the second pulse / Freq. doubling effect I can tell you one thing:
You will not see a second pulse alone, but an extend of the "pulse on" in the falling direction, because the inductor(s) trying to maintain the current flow and the stored energy in the magnetic field is colapsing, if you turn on before in colapses you get the "capacitance charging effect".

another hint:

(https://i.postimg.cc/MHmL0nF0/injector.gif)
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 22:59:54 pm
I'm not sure what point is being made here.  Just because you have an increasing charge doesn't mean that there isn't a resonance occuring with it.  Again I emphasize, by definition, resonance is a frequency.  The DC current isn't producing the frequency.  The pulsed primary and the choke + WFC are.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 23:03:28 pm
Timeshell I agree to disagree too.

This is the way we can achieve something, if everyone look in the same direction only following what patents says, we will not solve this in anyway.
Meyer was a con in many aspects, we have to admit it, we can see him fooling his investors on the "Stan Meyer Environmental Tape" video from Max Miller:

"Let's see how many energy it relly take to slit the water molecule" showing the voltmeter and ammeter that "really" is connected to the field of the alternator, not to the wfc itself. lol.
(look at 19.31)

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2018, 23:16:29 pm
I'm not sure what point is being made here.  Just because you have an increasing charge doesn't mean that there isn't a resonance occuring with it.  Again I emphasize, by definition, resonance is a frequency.  The DC current isn't producing the frequency.  The pulsed primary and the choke + WFC are.

This is not about resonance, this is about restricting current in the most effective way (parametric resonance) :

https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2018, 16:42:11 pm
i am not sure why the forum got in error, but i had to remove the last 3 posts of this topic...
Sorry guys. You have to re post again.
Its now working again.

cheers
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2018, 20:57:02 pm
I'm not sure what point is being made here.  Just because you have an increasing charge doesn't mean that there isn't a resonance occuring with it.  Again I emphasize, by definition, resonance is a frequency.  The DC current isn't producing the frequency.  The pulsed primary and the choke + WFC are.

This is not about resonance, this is about restricting current in the most effective way (parametric resonance) :

https://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html

Huh??

The two go hand in hand... I don't understand why you'd say that.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2018, 21:12:58 pm
There is no energy exchange between the "capacitor" and the inductor (s). It only happens one direction only
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2018, 21:16:59 pm
There is no energy exchange between the "capacitor" and the inductor (s). It only happens one direction only

Then there would be no resonance.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2018, 22:23:14 pm
There will not be "resonating" the way most people thing it does.
It works on D.C. unipolar pulses not A.C.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2018, 22:33:33 pm
The source of the pulses isn't really relevant.  Resonating is resonating.

I think we are arguing a non-issue here.   The VIC is unidirectional current because of the diode.

The question then becomes what is causing the resonating action.   Yes it is a resonating DC charging circuit.  There is a resonating action occuring.  So, what is causing it?  Resonating occurs because of opposing actions from inductors, resistors and capacitors.

So, what is causing this in the VIC?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2018, 16:38:44 pm
Timeshell why dont you explain this with some images?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2018, 22:38:20 pm
what causes the resonance is the right frequency because at this frequency the system is able to accumulate energy and amplify the voltage current because of that

even if we shot in one direction only the ions will oscillate with double frequency because when pulse terminates another pulse comes into play from the chokes

im starting to think that electrical resonance is not even the most important resonance to find







Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2018, 22:47:28 pm
LC resonance is not the key for the high production, I dont believe if we can get a "magic" effect of low power and high yeild of gas.
This is not the voltage alone, there will be always current.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2018, 00:31:39 am
I agree there may be some other resonance involved.. so far i´m inclined to believe that is related to the ppm value of electrolytes... meyer says is in the audio range from 0 to 10khz .. i think zero would be whenever its overdamped (low ppm or perhaps too high)

lc resonance however is also mentioned by meyer... but here is where the two come into play tuning

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2018, 06:30:37 am
Hi I have been going over a lot of old research that I did and the group that I was with, also some guy Russ has also uncovered somethings of importance, and he meet with some one that actually went an saw Myer be for he ministerially died. Then also some of the mystery around the dune buggy seems that it was not all that was shown, yes it was technically running on water. However the whole system also generated electrical power and some form of heat. What some of you see is only some of the whole system not all of it.
He was a cleaver man and done separate patents for each part but I believe and I am not the only one you have to put the whole puzzle together.
There is a resonant part played in the system, the group of rising pulse all together then a short break, that is the negative side cut off by the diode that is a pump up circuit.
The frequency is important, but not the way that you may normally think.
The L/R of the coil T plays a good part in this, generated circulating currents in a resonate circuit can be very high, and with the step up transformer to around, 1500V is also a key.
So in the circuit it states that the wire used was resistance wire in all of the coils.
Why? He generated 1500VAC the diode will halve that to 750V have wave peek when it finally gets there. If you wound the coils in normal winding copper wire, then the DC resistance would be very low in the region of  0.01to 0.0001  so using the L/R technically you could generate thousands of AMPS. That is if the frequency was very low at resonance to give the current rise time to reach 5time T. High Frequency means that it has buckles chance of getting even to one T, 63%of the max current for a coil. Example at resonance XL=XC so all that in in the circuit is the DC resistance, do the sum 750/0.01 = 75,000AMPS! And more 750/0.001 750,000. Now you can may be see why Stan used resistance wire to limit the current at resonance, even then the current that may be there would still in the coil at one T may still not reach the max either.  So now we have a circuit basically that is generating high voltage with stuff all current. To me even then in tap water or worse distilled water or deionized water it has all the minerals removed. You still will not break it down as with electrolysis. There is another possible way around the sonar frequencies, 1Ghz is one range,   
 Sport fishing sonar  50, 120, 200, 455 kHz . The sonar transducer was originally directly touching the water, as then they had tremendous amount of power pushed into them. the problem was that the water all around the Transducer got hot just like a microwave does to your food. What happened with the concentration of the power in one spot water split, the hydrogen and oxygen then burnt in the water pocket around the transducer and blew it up. Now they are not is direct contact with the water. So what does that tell you Stan seems to be doing something similar? Or there is fine arcing between the plates or tubes, this would disassociate the water as an arc is above 3,000C
Sorry to rattle on but I hope you get something from it and re-look at you thinking.
Stan what not telling the whole story publically.
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2018, 08:29:44 am
I dont undestand why people imagine things that was not there...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 14, 2019, 22:48:09 pm
Ok, this one was still on my to do list.
Here a picture of my testcell showing gas.
A note: it is charged, only by bemf.
I use the primary of an ignitioncoil.

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 14, 2019, 23:04:19 pm
Hello Steve.
Nice to see you're still working on it.
I am also working on my cell, but in a different prespective.

Cheers
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 14, 2019, 23:45:27 pm
If i find some time tomorrow, i will build the EEC part.
I think a P channel switch should be able to do that.
When the coil is charged, i also have to discharge the cell with the EEC circuit...however it will look like.
When the coil is discharging it self into the cell, the eec must be switched off.
It will be interesting to see if removing the charge of the cell, trully boost gas production...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 15, 2019, 18:00:55 pm
well, i had the eec running.
A lightbulb was burning.
No special results to mention on that.

So i played a bit futher...
And then this happend..
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2019, 03:08:39 am
what you done there?

i kind of see this happening in the past but it was a cable that were not well contact with the electrode in my case..

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2019, 08:27:24 am
i simply squerewaved the cell.
The signal frequency is 3 hz.
The change in amps is way slower going up and down....
So wierd...
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2019, 21:52:46 pm
what you done there?

i kind of see this happening in the past but it was a cable that were not well contact with the electrode in my case..


Sometimes you connect info .......
watch from 39:10
Puharich pulsed slow ...2 a 3 seconds per pulse
To flip protons.

Its very intresting
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2020, 15:11:51 pm

Dedicated to Nikola Tesla

All we need is a little more time

I attached the Main Pic from the Start of Thread  the Spark plug coils are tesla coils they collapse and
output a cold voltage from centres


NEVER STOP
https://www.hot-rod-usa.com/copy-of-h2-training-guide
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 16, 2021, 20:55:41 pm
yes, i still cannot let it go.....

Here are two schematics that are additional to eachother.
I think that the toroid is getting its voltage of two ignitioncoils.
Then you get the tesla coil and the rest...

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2021, 18:00:39 pm
Nobody?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2021, 17:54:13 pm
Nobody?

That's an amazing circuit, in it's simplicity.  Thanks for posting it; I guarantee I'm going to use it for something.  And I have spent some amount of time wondering how to wire up anti-parallel transformers.  What's the advantage of doing that?  EMI filter, so the MOSFET can keep it's smoke?
Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2021, 18:25:48 pm
You simply create double the voltage.
With 20kv coils you get 40kv....
In the case of a Meyer, i might even decouple the secondairys, so you have a totally isolated secondairy circuit.
I know it is possible, but you have yo open the coil casings...
Its a bit of tinkering..

Title: Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2021, 23:45:33 pm
Moving ahead with this circuit, I ordered a hand full of N channel semiconductors.  The ones my supplier had on sale are 200 V @ 20 Amps.  So I may try paralleling 2 or 3.  Or I can try using a current limiting capacitor on the input to the coils.  Or even use a single ignition coil.

Also, a MOT takes quite a bit less than 20 Amps, so I can use the circuit to provide a high frequency environment for the Radiant Energy spark circuit I recently posted.

And I have opened an ignition coil casing before, to remove the core.  The hard part was keeping it from leaking afterwards.

And, of course, I always have a variety of other projects I can work on while I'm waiting for the shipment.