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Projects by members => Projects by members => Electrotek => Topic started by: tektrical on September 29, 2016, 00:17:44 am

Title: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 29, 2016, 00:17:44 am
I've seen a variety of electrolysis electrodes on YouTube.  One guy made a tiny hho welding torch using a syringe and some double edge razor blades for the cell.  Someone else is using ss cover plates from weather proof electrical boxes.  About the cheapest is spirals made from ss hardware wire.  So I tried that one:

(https://s20.postimg.org/6arapkk6l/Spiral_Electrodes.jpg)

One spiral was wrapped around the lag bolt, the other around the spring.  A smaller wrap holds its size better.  They're assembled with hot glue and a short piece of half inch plastic tube.

My pictures show distilled water with a quarter teaspoon of salt.  The negative spiral puts off the most bubbles, but that works with either the inner one or the outer one.  After a while, the water gets filled with tiny bubbles, but they never go below the bottom of the spirals.

This unit was hooked up directly to a 60 Watt solar panel, on a cloudy day.  The water does warm up a little, but that just means less heat needs to be added later.

Since polarity doesn't matter with this setup, I'll try AC in series with a small light bulb.  And I've been testing three other configurations made with these spirals, although this is the only unit which is not polarized.  The others act as a diode.

Speaking of ss, I'm going to use restaurant sauce cups for my Hydrogen fracturing column.

(https://s20.postimg.org/7r2t7pn3h/Sauce_Cups.jpg)
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2016, 08:55:54 am
if you use a spiral shape cell you might add an external capacitor and see if you can hit resonance...

What is your purposr for these builds?


cheers
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2016, 21:56:54 pm
wow , you live in the actual real desert . like apache territory coyotes ratlers etc ....

Ive tried coils etc also tried sheets of fuel filter gauze its like 100 x 100 holes per square inch = 10000 holes
I guess because of such small conductor theres no waste current in the centre of the conductor X section, its mostly surface area + direct contact with water
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 02, 2016, 23:55:00 pm
if you use a spiral shape cell you might add an external capacitor and see if you can hit resonance...

What is your purposr for these builds?


cheers

When I first started this project, I just wanted a quick and easy electrolyzer to run my micro flame hho torch, to see if I can weld ss connecting wire to ss plates and cups.  I also have a delicate part on one of my carburetors which needs to be repaired.  And I often fantasize about using a tiny torch with a 3D printer, to print out metal objects, without NASA's expensive laser version.  Now that I'm into the project, I can see the advantage of being able to see the bubbles and the way they interact with the charges on the conductors.  When I get to the point of using an electron extraction circuit, the outer tube will need to be perforated on at least the side facing the third electrode.  So I built one cell with a third spiral between the two active ones.  I don't want the T spark effect to just go to one of the electrodes, but into the region between them.  The same will be true if I use Bruce Perreault's Glo-regulator as the single wire circuit, to pull out the electrons.   (Just the bottom part of the picture, with the 1J3 vacuum tube.)

(https://s20.postimg.org/x5ymjrk19/Glo_regulator.jpg)

I agree about using an external capacitor to adjust the resonance.  I'm planning to get a toy keyboard (electronic organ) so I'll have a variety of square wave frequencies to test.  (My guitar amps put out around 500V.  Or so I've read.)  The first cell I made was a modified inverted caduceus which has a built in resonance.  This is the one which has the diode effect - at least with salt as the dielectric.  The actual input electrode is in the very center and connects at the bottom.  I intend to explore this effect further in a couple of weeks when I get some more distilled water.  If I can get a transistor effect going, it'll be easy to adjust the gas output.

(https://s20.postimg.org/z0bh1i71p/Caduceus.jpg)

And I'm also going to test a cell with four electrodes, wired up like a C Stack.  Then the cell's capacitance, and resonance, will be adjustable by varying the potential on the outer spiral, relative to the inner most one.

wow , you live in the actual real desert . like apache territory coyotes ratlers etc ....

I'm in the eastern end of the Mohave desert.  The Apache girls are some of the most beautiful I've seen.  But around here, 35 miles from the Grand Canyon Sky Walk, it's mainly Haulapias.  (They own the Sky Walk.)  The rattlers here on the property are friendly enough.  At least the diamond backs and the coon tails.  I haven't seen a Mohave Green, but it's reputed that they attack on sight.  So I always stay tanked up on ground cumin (cumino), a spice from India which is an anti-toxin as well as a natural antibiotic.  The coyotes are a real nuisance.  One or more packs have been coming in two or three times every night here lately, trying to get my cats.  So I've been losing a lot of sleep.  I can always scare them off, but after a couple of hours, there they are again.

Quote
Ive tried coils etc also tried sheets of fuel filter gauze its like 100 x 100 holes per square inch = 10000 holes

I wonder if that gauze would work as a quenching circuit plate?  If it was wadded up and smashed down.

Quote
I guess because of such small conductor theres no waste current in the centre of the conductor X section, its mostly surface area + direct contact with water

You're probably right about this.  Even smaller wire seems better.  Like the scouring pad strands I used to 'string ball' wrap my caduceus top ball.  Gas just pours off the very edge where it's really sharp.  I'm also thinking about trying the super thin Tungsten wire in the electron gun I got from the Sharp copier I salvaged during the Great Sharp Copier Salvage of 2013, when everyone was doing it.

Cheers.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2016, 00:31:46 am
My computer crashed most of the way through my last message.  While retyping it, I forgot one thing I included the first time.

The way the bubbles are going into suspension, I'm thinking about aspirating some of that water and feeding it directly into my Injector.  Since it already has hho, it could be like having that much gasoline from a small cell.  There's been some work going around here lately with nano bubble ball lightning.  So I'll try hitting a small amount of the cloudy water with my BL spark.  Moray King thinks this could be the key to using water as an energy source, rather than as a fuel, although I have my own idea about where the energy comes from.  (Binding energy in the form of surface tension.  E=MC^2.)

http://rexresearch.com/kingmb/king.html
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 03, 2016, 05:14:21 am


The way the bubbles are going into suspension, I'm thinking about aspirating some of that water and feeding it directly into my Injector.  Since it already has hho

having a one way valve for a watergas recirculation/overflow -much like a gasoline fuel rail-  inlet at the bottom separate from a line at the bottom for a water /gas mixture exit at the bottom ( the top of the cell being closed and sealed off) using gas pressure to in effect drain the cell was something of interest to me...of all the years searching I still can not find any literature in terms of the cloudy water.
I like what you are doing and look forward to where it takes you.
Thank you for sharing !
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 06, 2016, 18:16:10 pm

having a one way valve for a watergas recirculation/overflow -much like a gasoline fuel rail-  inlet at the bottom separate from a line at the bottom for a water /gas mixture exit at the bottom ( the top of the cell being closed and sealed off) using gas pressure to in effect drain the cell was something of interest to me...of all the years searching I still can not find any literature in terms of the cloudy water.
I like what you are doing and look forward to where it takes you.
Thank you for sharing !

You've got some pretty good ideas and I appreciate your input.  Pulling the water/gas mixture out through a tube coming down sounds a lot better than trying to aspirate it out through the top.  I do remember seeing a picture of JL Naudin's cold fusion cell with cloudy water reflecting the light from the underwater arc.  The way all the bubbles are combining may have something to do with it.  I don't get the same effect with a separate rod at a distance, for the positive electrode.

http://jlnlabs.online.fr/cfr/index.htm

I've been doing a lot of work with my spirals.  There's even been some small exploding bubbles coming off the ball electrode, or else exploding before they leave the electrode's surface.  So far - in this voltage range - I can't see that the resulting tiny bubbles contain more gas by volume than the original bubble.  It may be that the Hydrogen Fracturing Process is a type of ion cascade, with impact dissociation, rather than Coulomb Explosions.  And the scouring pad wire has something on it that releases a lot of black crud into the water.

Using just the spirals, both contain the same length of wire when the outer one is made by wrapping it around a half inch pvc pipe.  Four inches seems to be the optimal length at this point, even with much smaller wire.

(https://s20.postimg.org/lbxroqnu5/Four_Inch_Spirals_sm.jpg)

Besides salt, a variety of electrolytes also work: vinegar, bleach, sulfamic acid (Lime-a-Way), and sodium hydroxide.  But that last one doesn't produce the cloudy water effect.  And the acid makes a foam on top.  All of these produce a loud bang from a 3/8" bubble.

I've also improved my construction technique.  Needle nose pliers can poke the wire through a piece of aquarium tubing.  The top one has to be installed at the bottom, then screwed all the way up.  This makes a much better spacer than using a hot glue gun.

Back to it.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2016, 03:29:52 am
Thanks again for sharing !
I remember seeing an experiment titled 932 or something like that May interest you...it was dealing with that specific frequency, a spiral electrode and a specific acidic electrolyte. I'll try to find a link for it and send it to you.
It's a lot easier to load the hydrogen when the anode is further away
Using the spice bottle is genius and so much more convenient. ..thank you for sharing that,knowing if it leaks water upside down so much easier checking for gas leaks :)
I'm also interested in your tube arrangement. ...I have a lot of tubes and would love to learn how to use them.I have one in particular that looks like a switch inside if you don't mind me posting a picture.
sorry for not engaging topic specific my phone doesn't allow me see but what I'm typing making it difficult to stay focused
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 07, 2016, 19:07:24 pm
I'm also interested in your tube arrangement. ...I have a lot of tubes and would love to learn how to use them.I have one in particular that looks like a switch inside if you don't mind me posting a picture.

I'd love to see your picture!  I'm basically visually oriented, so a picture here and there adds depth to a discussion.

Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 08, 2016, 19:50:28 pm
I've wanted to use tubes for a long time and haven't seen anyone else using them.most of the numbers are gone from the tubes I have making it difficult for me to understand how to use them to amplify a waveform but this one looks like a switch and I can't find any literature on it.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 09, 2016, 00:25:23 am
That looks like a vacuum tube with a relay type switch.  It looks like the switch is closed, but you could ring it out to be sure.  Check for continuity with an ohm meter or battery with light bulb.  Next to the right hand arm is something which might be a heater, used to bend that arm away from the other.  Check to see if it's connected to two base pins.  If this is the case, the tube would be an over current safety device.  If not, turn the tube over and post another picture.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2016, 02:15:40 am
As a control experiment, I made an assembly in which both spirals are the same size, interwound in a parallel configuration, just as shown in the original video.  Most of his video deals with his winding jig, which I didn't need with the smaller size wire.  The only other difference is he has one connected at the bottom, with both of mine connected at the top.  But he's getting the same effect, with tiny bubbles making the water cloudy.  And about the same amount of bubbles.


With mine, either way, I'm getting a strong boiling like effect up to the surface, even raising the water in the middle.  But most of the bubbles reflect back down into the water, rather than breaking the surface.  As a result, very little gas is actually coming through the bubbler.  When the cloudiness reaches its maximum, I still see the boiling from the top.  So the dispersed bubbles aren't inhibiting further gas production.  It's possible the bubbles are recombining into water, at some rate of equilibrium.  There's a mystery here and I intend to get to the bottom of it.

I'm also going to try using the concentric spirals with Meyer type pulses, so I can see if all of his gas is leaving the cell.  I think I'll try generating pulses with a bunch of small neodymium magnets positioned around the edge of a treadmill motor's rim.  I can leave spaces for the break part of the cycles.  And two rows of magnets, one with reverse polarity, will allow for opposing peaks from two pick up coils.  (Magneto coils.)  This motor is rated for 100 VDC, but it still spins at a pretty good clip when connected to my solar panel.  I can give it more juice if I need to.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 13, 2016, 22:43:48 pm
One more experiment was all it took to figure it out.  The tiny bubbles are charged.  As such, they're attracted back into the electrodes, forming a toroidal turbulence going upwards in the center of the cell.  This turbulence causes the appearance of on going gas production, when the bubbles are actually inhibiting that operation.  It looks like the same amount of bubbles are hitting the bottom of the water's surface, on the top, but most of these bubbles are the same ones to begin with.  The solution was easy enough, and will be open sourced in due time.  I don't want someone taking out a patent on this, preventing its widespread use.

Now I can finish my micro torch, then move on to the next phase of the project, which is to properly electrify the flame.  That T spark is very hot, when combined with the regular discharge.  After that, I'll ionize the gas (with a flame), then I'll detonate it, using either my Puff Spark or my Ball Lightning discharge.  Just to see what happens.  The Plasmoid Spark causes a candle flame to explode - something I open sourced several years ago on Bill Beatty's FreeNRG forum.  But I may be able to do better than that.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2016, 04:00:08 am
One more experiment was all it took to figure it out.  The tiny bubbles are charged.  As such, they're attracted back into the electrodes, forming a toroidal turbulence going upwards in the center of the cell.  This turbulence causes the appearance of on going gas production, when the bubbles are actually inhibiting that operation.  It looks like the same amount of bubbles are hitting the bottom of the water's surface, on the top, but most of these bubbles are the same ones to begin with.  The solution was easy enough, and will be open sourced in due time.  I don't want someone taking out a patent on this, preventing its widespread use.

Ive allways wanted to check for dissolved hydrogen from within " The Cloud" of the water.
Ive read its hard for even commercial water ionizers that haven't actually checked the content other than an ORP reading, which is misleading because a high ORP doesn't give a dissolved hydrogen reading.
We can read enough literature on the net to understand at the anode side water becomes lower in pH and of course on the cathode side the water becomes higher in pH.
This tells us at the Anode side we have free hydrogen(H+) ions and on the Cathode side we have hydroxyl (OH-) ions.That part becomes basic knowledge in the world we live in.
Its not so very basic tho as we put our electrodes in some water and notice that familiar murky cloud start to form (or is it ) and wander what is going on.At first sight we want to think ....wow.... look at all that hydrogen.....which in a basic sense would be a correct assessment  but as we study and learn we come to discover its not just hydrogen in that cloud of water sinking to the bottom....its hydroxyl as well :) We learn that the hydrogen and the hydroxyl are actually joining together to form.....water .But why ? Why is the stuff in there im wanting to form a gas for the most part attracted to each other and making the stuff I want to split????why IS GOING ON??? I don't want to make water I want to make gas !!!!!! Lordy Mercy :)
Ok so .....we learn if we separate the lectrodes what happens to that cloud? Does somewhat basic knowledge tell me if the ions are attracted to each other then I guess I need to keep em separated....ok ,so the cloud disappeared but these bubbles seem like they lost some bang and my power supply just cant make enough gas.I want more power AND more gas !!!!
Lets take the separator back out see if the cloud appears again....
S O B that cloud....but wait....yep ,theres that loud pop again...ok but dam....that sure *  me off that Im back to making water again .Why is there so much water making going on.....gotta be a way to keep em from doing that, wait.... did Stan say something about that? Yea, he did..... but wasn't that to do with the combustion process?? I guess, but can I  look at this dam cloud that way....as a combustion process??? Crap what was it that Stan said about that stuff?


I want to keep going with that story but I don't want to waste to much of everybodys time with my ....story :)

It puzzled me for a long time trying to figure out that part and to be honest... I still don't know it all but I love working with it.

Your spiral electrodes are an event in and of its self , with your T diode and ball lightning Im guessing its not that hard to see a charge separation effect taking place and cant wait to see some of that part... its a monster of a challenge to figure things out and with a little help I think and believe this nightmare will soon be basic knowledge in this world we live in as well :)
Keep on Keeping on :)
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2016, 23:49:26 pm
Ive allways wanted to check for dissolved hydrogen from within " The Cloud" of the water.

Not sure if we're talking about the same "Cloud".  What I'm seeing isn't gasses dissolved in the mass of water.  It's more like colloidal bubbles, each with a shell charge.

Quote
We can read enough literature on the net to understand at the anode side water becomes lower in pH and of course on the cathode side the water becomes higher in pH.
This tells us at the Anode side we have free hydrogen(H+) ions and on the Cathode side we have hydroxyl (OH-) ions.That part becomes basic knowledge in the world we live in.

Somewhere along the line I got the impression that electrolysis produces hydrogen and oxygen.  If everything is in the atomic, rather than molecular, state, there would be twice as much gas coming from the hydrogen producing electrode.  With my spirals, that's the one which is negative.  (The cathode.)  If the output were hydrogen and hydroxyl, the gas volumes would be equal.

Quote
Its not so very basic tho as we put our electrodes in some water and notice that familiar murky cloud start to form (or is it ) and wander what is going on.At first sight we want to think ....wow.... look at all that hydrogen.....which in a basic sense would be a correct assessment  but as we study and learn we come to discover its not just hydrogen in that cloud of water sinking to the bottom....

The cloud of bubbles in my cell doesn't sink to the bottom.  Only to the bottom of the electrodes.  Sometimes not quite that far, as the upwards acceleration at the center pulls the bubbles back in.  And it's more of a rolling circulation, rather than a sinking.  Too bad all of my video cameras have disappeared. 

Quote
We learn that the hydrogen and the hydroxyl are actually joining together to form.....water .But why ? Why is the stuff in there im wanting to form a gas for the most part attracted to each other and making the stuff I want to split????why IS GOING ON??? I don't want to make water I want to make gas !!!!!! Lordy Mercy :)

Me too.  With my first test run, very few bubbles were breaking the surface.  I was getting like one bubble through the bubbler in just under a second.  Now I'm getting a very satisfying steady stream of bubbles.

Quote
Ok so .....we learn if we separate the lectrodes what happens to that cloud? Does somewhat basic knowledge tell me if the ions are attracted to each other then I guess I need to keep em separated....ok ,so the cloud disappeared but these bubbles seem like they lost some bang and my power supply just cant make enough gas.I want more power AND more gas !!!!

I'm not separating the electrodes.  If I did, it wouldn't be the same apparatus.

Quote
Your spiral electrodes are an event in and of its self , with your T diode and ball lightning Im guessing its not that hard to see a charge separation effect taking place and cant wait to see some of that part... its a monster of a challenge to figure things out and with a little help I think and believe this nightmare will soon be basic knowledge in this world we live in as well :)
Keep on Keeping on :)

Thanks for the encouragement.  But I'm not using any exotic effects at this point.  Just straight DC.  The rest of it will be for the fusion configuration Stan was so kind as to illustrate, even if he did leave out a couple of connections.  But I can't issue a strong enough WARNING right here:  if you expect to get fusion, SHIELD yourself!!  It may take a couple of years for neutron damage to start appearing, but the worst is 15 to 20 years down the line.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 16, 2016, 04:51:23 am

With mine, either way, I'm getting a strong boiling like effect up to the surface, even raising the water in the middle.  But most of the bubbles reflect back down into the water, rather than breaking the surface.  As a result, very little gas is actually coming through the bubbler.  When the cloudiness reaches its maximum, I still see the boiling from the top.  So the dispersed bubbles aren't inhibiting further gas production.  It's possible the bubbles are recombining into water, at some rate of equilibrium.  There's a mystery here and I intend to get to the bottom of it.

This cloudiness.... what is that and is that the mystery  here or is it the lack of production?
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 16, 2016, 05:10:00 am
Quote
Its not so very basic tho as we put our electrodes in some water and notice that familiar murky cloud start to form (or is it ) and wander what is going on.At first sight we want to think ....wow.... look at all that hydrogen.....which in a basic sense would be a correct assessment  but as we study and learn we come to discover its not just hydrogen in that cloud of water sinking to the bottom....

The cloud of bubbles in my cell doesn't sink to the bottom.  Only to the bottom of the electrodes.  Sometimes not quite that far, as the upwards acceleration at the center pulls the bubbles back in.  And it's more of a rolling circulation, rather than a sinking.  Too bad all of my video cameras have disappeared. 

Yes, it'd be interesting see the arrangement of your cell container...

Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2016, 02:17:44 am

With mine, either way, I'm getting a strong boiling like effect up to the surface, even raising the water in the middle.  But most of the bubbles reflect back down into the water, rather than breaking the surface.  As a result, very little gas is actually coming through the bubbler.  When the cloudiness reaches its maximum, I still see the boiling from the top.  So the dispersed bubbles aren't inhibiting further gas production.  It's possible the bubbles are recombining into water, at some rate of equilibrium.  There's a mystery here and I intend to get to the bottom of it.

This cloudiness.... what is that and is that the mystery  here or is it the lack of production?

The cloudiness is caused by a large number of tiny bubbles spread out through the water mass.  Why they are reflecting from the surface of the water rather than popping was the mystery.  But the mystery surrounding this operation deepens when considering that the negative electrode puts off the most bubbles.

Yes, it'd be interesting see the arrangement of your cell container...

I'm using concentric spirals, just as shown in my opening post.  What I'm using now is about 2 1/2 times longer.

I made the long, tiring journey to Kingman on Friday, to get my month's worth of groceries and supplies.  I picked up a cheap video camera, but it's pure-de-crap.  I'm going to try making a video with my phone camera.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes (Selling Out To NASA?)
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2016, 22:43:18 pm
My newest prototype is just about finished.  I still have to seal it up and add a valve, to run a hose to the bubbler.  Then I can test my tiny torch (which is already ready) and see if it meets my expectations.  And there isn't really any mystery as to what my unit is doing.  I've got all that figured out.  I even posted a clue.  (That was ahead of time, before I thought about using these spirals.)  But, to be honest, the actual composition of the gas IS still unknown.

The possibility that this system might be producing some amount of hydroxyl, as well as hydrogen and oxygen, is rather interesting.  Unless someone knows how to differentiate the gasses, I'll have to think about that one. 

Of course, I could team up with NASA and utilize their spectroscopy equipment.  The only issue I see with doing that is they will end up with full rights to use the invention, in the process.  (If it is an invention.)  Their resulting patent - under my own name - would start with "The United States government has certain rights to this invention".  (THEY decide if a patent will be filed.)  On the other hand, if I just file a patent myself, I would start it with "This invention may be used by, and manufactured for, the US government, for any and all governmental purposes, without payment of any fees thereon or therefor".  Otherwise, they could slap a secrecy order on it, and use it anyway.  The difference between these two approaches is that if I file the patent, it'll cost me a ton of money.  And they still get to use it for free.  But if they file the patent, they pay all the fees AND send me a check for $1,000.  Unfortunately, there's also a little fine print called the NPR program, or New Technology Report.  There's a federal law which says that if I'm working with NASA - or any other government agency which even partly funds my work - NASA also gets full rights to use ANYTHING I'm also working on during the contract period.  And this includes "conceptualizing"; if I even THINK about one of my other projects, I'm required by law to submit an NPR form about it.  If, by chance, NASA thinks something I'm working on isn't worth a patent, they can still open source it for me by publishing it in their Tech Briefs magazine, "so that other people can start a business and make money with your idea".  There's nothing wrong with that since trying to enable Cottage Industries everywhere, to help expand the economy, is the whole idea behind open sourcing something to begin with.  And if something is published in NASA's magazine, they'll send me a check for $350.  So I can open source something for free, on a small Internet forum where very few people will see it, taking the chance that someone will decide to file a patent on it anyway.  Or I can let NASA's patent attorneys decide if it's worth a patent, then open source it to their very large audience if it's not, with me making a little bit in the process.  Once a patent issues, I can publicly give everyone the right to use it.  And that is the safest method to open source something.

All of this sounds pretty tempting.  If they'll pay me a thousand bucks for every idea I have which can be patented, those checks could pile up pretty fast.  But there are some things I'm working on which I don't necessarily want to reveal.  If I change my mind later, I could be caught up in a big court battle trying to prove I didn't do at least some little thing during the crucial time frame.  So what should I do?  At one point, right out of the blue, my father told me:  "You've got to stop thinking about selling your stuff to NASA".  This might be a case of trans-temporal advice because it hadn't even occurred to me to try to sell something to the government.  But I value his advice more than what could quite likely be 'external input' urging me to contact NASA.

So I may use the tried and true method of public demonstration, or use, then waiting one year before disclosing the details.  By law, this puts something into the Public Domain.  Except in England, where you can't patent anything which has already been disclosed, regardless of when.  And that's how it should be over here.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 18, 2016, 23:25:12 pm
Just a 1000 bucks for all hard work done?
hmmmm...


Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2016, 04:05:14 am
Reflecting back to Stan tweaking his cells with a 1/16 " gap....I can see a "tweaking " with your spiral cells ....adding an isolation tube within the center of the coil wrap giving the cell a thin wall of water to penetrate instead of the whole mass of water like in the video posted.
I guess you can imagine the spiral cells being placed in a container made of 2 pvc pipes of different diameters with a gap to drop the spirals in.....kind of exciting with a few more possibilities.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 19, 2016, 21:46:07 pm
kind of exciting with a few more possibilities.

Real exciting, if someone else wants to experiment with such an easy to build setup.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2016, 08:05:25 am
kind of exciting with a few more possibilities.

Real exciting, if someone else wants to experiment with such an easy to build setup.

It is an easier build but still requires funds. I'm an out work coal miner in the USA .....things have been tuff for me literally all year...laid off since January and completely out of any income since August.
I have a few things laying around and given the excitement, I really want work with this idea.
I like to draw up the design and go from there so if you don't mind I'll draw up something along with some possible additions and post it.If you want me to start my own thread it's no problem.   
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 20, 2016, 20:46:15 pm
Just a 1000 bucks for all hard work done?
hmmmm...

Their theory is that if someone other than the government wants to use it I'll be able to collect royalties from those people.  But I'm not in the business of trying to make money from the members of our community.  Besides that, there would still be the possibility of a secrecy order, to keep anyone from knowing about it.  Open source is still the best way, so that's what I'm doing.
 
I can see a "tweaking " with your spiral cells ....adding an isolation tube within the center of the coil wrap giving the cell a thin wall of water to penetrate instead of the whole mass of water like in the video posted.

I guess you can imagine the spiral cells being placed in a container made of 2 pvc pipes of different diameters with a gap to drop the spirals in.....kind of exciting with a few more possibilities.

I thought about just putting a tube above the inner spiral, to prevent the bubbles from recirculating.  Then what I tried was using a baffle plate, with a hole above the middle electrode.  That's what worked, with gas quickly building up under the plate.  So now I made a new unit, with an output valve at the top and another below the high point of the slanted devider plate.  This took three days to build, because I don't have the right kind of glue which will stick to the type of plastic the soda pop bottle is made out of.  I did finally get it sealed good enough for a test.  I'm thinking I can test the two regions of gas separately, to determine their compositions.  Unfortunately, the hole in the plate is a little too small this time, so some of the tiny bubbles are getting into the bottom chamber.  And that does cut down on the overall gas production, compared to the other one.  I think I'll try using your idea, with a tube coming down from the baffle plate, but just past the top of the negative central electrode.  I still want to keep everything transparent for now, to see what's going on.

I've got a T joining the hoses from both valves, feeding both gasses into the bubbler.  I tried using my micro torch, but I'm getting blow back all the way to the bubbler.  The vaccination needle I bought appears to be too big, with the gas not streaming out fast enough to keep the flame out of the feed hose.  This is a good time to try making a quenching 'circuit', and my thought is to cram some wadded up micro screen into the hose, right before the torch.

I have a few things laying around and given the excitement, I really want work with this idea.
I like to draw up the design and go from there so if you don't mind I'll draw up something along with some possible additions and post it.If you want me to start my own thread it's no problem.

Post it here.  If it look's good, I'll build it too.  That's the whole advantage of having a forum.  And you can also build this with copper wire, with no adverse effects for the first few minutes.  Good enough for a test.  I'm using 1 mm 19 gauge wire.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2016, 20:43:31 pm
Placing the inner spiral inside a half inch clear plastic tube completely eliminates bubble production.  But it seems feasible that a close fitting outer tube around both electrodes will stop the recirculating bubbles, while still allowing the basic operation.  I'll check that later since I'm working on something else right now. 

Tweaker tweak.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2016, 21:36:59 pm
Placing the inner spiral inside a half inch clear plastic tube completely eliminates bubble production.  But it seems feasible that a close fitting outer tube around both electrodes will stop the recirculating bubbles, while still allowing the basic operation.  I'll check that later since I'm working on something else right now. 

Tweaker tweak.

I've managed to find a rather large outer container(4"i.d. x9") ...I've not found anything rigid to use for electrodes yet so mine will be different but I hope it helps to shine some kind of insight mayb....I'm still gathering pieces.
Title: Re: Spiral Wire Electrodes
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 24, 2016, 06:29:35 am
I have my inner and outter container now...I'm trying to find something rigid to use for electrodes....I have some 1/8"  7-19 rope cable that I may have to find a way to use