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Stanley Meyer => Stanley Meyer => Diy Lasers => Topic started by: Hydrogenenthusiast on May 04, 2008, 08:43:24 am

Title: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2008, 08:43:24 am
After much study of Stan Meyer's tech brief my eyes have been opened to the "Hydrogen gas gun"  process of fracturing hydrogen to make it even more powerful. In page 1-11 in his tech brief he states that the hydrogen fracturing process has the ability to make one gallon of water as powerful as 2.5 million barrels of oil.  This really makes me wonder why no one has really looked into this (as I believe it would greatly reduce the amount of hydrogen needed to run a vehicle) Maybe it deserves a second chance.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 07, 2008, 20:39:59 pm
And after doing more research I have further been able to understand the importance of the "hydrogen gas gun" or "hydrogen fracturing" Process.

In one of Stan Meyer's news videos, he says that if he were to take the dune buggy from L.A. to New York the car would use around 22 gal's of water. 1 gallon of water having around 1833 cubic feet of useable gas
1 Cubic foot = 22.31 Liters

22.31 Liters X 1833=42,738.228 Liters of gas

The distance from L.A. to New York is roughly about 2,783 Miles, and would take around 41.3 hours to complete

47,738.228 / 41.3 hours = 1034.81 Liters per hour

1034.81 / 60 = 17.24 Liters Per Minute

17.24 liters per minute is not much gas, but when the gas is exposed to the photon energy, it's thermal explosive power is increased exponentially, enough so that a car bun be run on a small amount of gas, where as most ICE's using hydrogen will require 100-300 Liters per minute or more. This equates to about 126 Miles per gallon of water!
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 08, 2008, 03:52:22 am
kewl, keep up the good work man!
Title: -
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2008, 17:16:33 pm
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Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2008, 01:54:23 am
Checking through some of the Documents available on Meyer. WFC Gas Management System. Memo WFC 422 DA section 3.
Laser Accelerator Assembly (20) thats the part that I think goes over the LED tube array.
Assembly (20) of figure (3-10) uses a GaAs (I think Gallium Arsenide) infrared emmitting diode (1) of figure (3-9)
;figure 3-9 is the led pickup circuit showing 12 lasers on one side.;
typically 935nm.
Triggering a SDP8611 Optoschmitt light receiver (2) of figure (3-9) ;12 receivers on other side.;
Using logic states and applied to gas pedal accelleration.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2008, 02:18:10 am
Reading deeper the circuit of lasers is inside  figure (3-10).
appears to be a round type vessel with a wiper arm  in motion changing the logic states.
This laser accelerator sits over another chamber.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2008, 03:35:04 am
It also states somewhere in the reports that this was a coherent laser.
This report says he was using a series of concentric lenses becoming progressively smaller.
I havn't found if the lenses were doped. 
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2008, 04:50:11 am
There are apparently many articles on this gas gun, in Memo WFC 420.
Figure 1-17 shows 16 I.R. LED's on each side.
And probably more memo's will show something similar.
It does say in several instances that this laser energy helps to displace the electrons in the gas.
I understand photons are able to move electrons from metal surfaces from reading the Wikipedia definition.
Meyer states the laser primed gas and speaks of the electron movement, displacement and then removal or extraction circuit.
In the Figure 1-17 of memo WFC 420 notice that the leds are pointed or facing the negative voltage zone plate or tube.
I am also thinking that many electrons are forced or helped out of the electrode in the center from the laser injection and hopefully
the liberated gas atoms.
He also does say the gas's are quite displaced that they do not want to stablize back to water.

Many of this group are writing of  trying U.V. bands of laser or led and no one has touched on I.R. from the Meyer documents.
I was just going to try any Laser wavelength but now am having second thoughts.
Why did Meyer choose 935nm?

Sorry for the jibbering but I would really like to see or read something positive from this process.
 
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2008, 09:56:44 am
There are apparently many articles on this gas gun, in Memo WFC 420.
Figure 1-17 shows 16 I.R. LED's on each side.
And probably more memo's will show something similar.
It does say in several instances that this laser energy helps to displace the electrons in the gas.
I understand photons are able to move electrons from metal surfaces from reading the Wikipedia definition.
Meyer states the laser primed gas and speaks of the electron movement, displacement and then removal or extraction circuit.
In the Figure 1-17 of memo WFC 420 notice that the leds are pointed or facing the negative voltage zone plate or tube.
I am also thinking that many electrons are forced or helped out of the electrode in the center from the laser injection and hopefully
the liberated gas atoms.
He also does say the gas's are quite displaced that they do not want to stablize back to water.

Many of this group are writing of  trying U.V. bands of laser or led and no one has touched on I.R. from the Meyer documents.
I was just going to try any Laser wavelength but now am having second thoughts.
Why did Meyer choose 935nm?

Sorry for the jibbering but I would really like to see or read something positive from this process.
 

Komtek,

Question: where did you read the 935nm frequency?

br
Steve
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2008, 20:04:19 pm
apparently there are different types of infrared so maybe he was just stating an average but infrared does fall into a tiny range of light frequencies...either way pulsing the i.r. lights would cover this spectrum.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2008, 22:10:57 pm
Stevie, I have read some of the same memo's on Meyer, maybe printed in different years.
My friend brought a group of them over.
After looking at his I noticed some difference in pictures, made me wonder.
I came to a conclusion, Meyers process's were updated with time.
His memo's were updated also, there are changes.
This Memo opens copyright 1995 and after intro and index  and a couple pages starts:
Hydrogen Fracturing Process (method)  WFC 420 I believe more than one time refers to I.R. Led's
one instance on page 1-8 typical 20ma per diode, 1.7v for red emitters
on off pulse frequency 1-65hz and above.  This is in section 1 and notice his use of a rotor to allow
laser flow into the chamber on/off/on/off etc... figure 1-13.
Right into section 3 Memo WFC 422 DA second page or first description of "Laser Accelerator Assembly"
7th line down (935nm) and refers to a 100khz frequency.
I also believe this to be just a wavelength in I.R. (935) that he may have started with and that we should as a group
try different wave lengths in I.R. and others.
In this section 3 WFC 422 DA his laser housings that were stackable, the lasers used 4 lenses (lenses could be doped although he did not say).
I think he was focusing the beam to a fine point or maybe the opposite for spread. I don't have that figured out. Whats concentric mean again?
In the earlier document the picture or figure did show the light pattern bouncing or reflecting in the housing.
I'm working on some sort of laser injection and have too many ideas to start with so I'm trying to get focused.
Sometimes thats the hard part.
I have Green 532nm or so at 25mw and its intense. 2 diodes of 410nm or close and 1 small diode of 635nm.
One of my thoughts needing some input is the use of optic cable. Is there any loss of strength lets say with
several 3 foot pieces of optic cable.
I wanted to try the optic cable first before I make a mount for the laser and light cavity to get to a isolated pair of
tubes.
Red 635 and 632nm are very common and cheap, I'm hoping these will work.
Green 532 is very common also.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2008, 05:37:43 am
http://parts.digikey.com/1/parts/946296-diode-ir-emitting-gaas-46-se5455-003.html

this is the LED mentionned in the patents , Galium-Arsenide 935 nm

you seem to be confused with the use of the laser , The laser is used to up the orbit of the electrons of oxygen to make sure they get  all plucked out  at the end , it helped the electron extraction circuit allowing 100% success rate in plucking out the electrons thats it.

you could pluck out the electrons using raw voltage only but you could combine lesser voltage with photon energy of right wavelenght meanwhile to aid the electron extraction .

Because he was able to pluck out the electrons using voltage only w/o lasers, the taper resonant cavity did that , but he also had another design of the same taper injector using a laser right in the middle of the center electrode to help the electron extraction process .

Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2008, 09:51:30 am
Hi,


We have to energize the hydrogen.
I dont know if we have to energize the oxygen as well.
If you want the frequencys for this energizing, then go read
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,407.0.html
Look at that picture of the Bohr model.
Its all in there.
Good luck!

br
Steve
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2008, 23:38:37 pm
Nice find Dankie! I'm going to try 10 of these from DigiKey.

Thanks for the input to read about the Bohr model.
It seems reading is the only way to get some research done before the build and try.
I read deeper into the Meyer memos and found he even mentioned UV at 350nm.
That was the last laser step he stated.
It seems Stan used more than 1 laser in the process and extraction circuit.
That was a good way to keep the gas's unstable.
I also will agree that the oxygen gas is taking a hit with photons doing the same process and
electrons are being shifted in its shell.
Even with this process to higher state energy (hydroxy) at the end a mixture of outside air (gas) is still needed to
aid in the burn rate.
Stan stated with his measurement device that natural gas burned at a rate of 47cps and the hydroxy at 325 cps
meaning that he had to adjust the ratio of hydroxy burn with even more outside air supply.
There also was a flame chamber used to heat the gases. Even mentioned steam. Many processes he covered.
Now another point I'm not clear on but he writes about the laser injection with a variable voltage and variable
frequency that seem to be in an automated state finding the best resonant activity.
Most of his electronics seemed to have some locking into resonant action ability like (can I say) a automatic
tuner circuit used for Ham Radio application maybe.
So I'll give it a go anyway with no real numeric caculation but adjustable system parameters until I can find
a positive outcome. Then put some numbers into that with voltage, frequency, wavelength, tempurature, etc...
I'm guessing like Hydro did with a torch or flame, this should be able to tell you a visual picture of the burn. 
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 09, 2008, 07:51:24 am
yeah well it sounds a bit dangerous , were are not talking about HHO here tahst 2.5 times more powerful than gasoline , we are entering the realm of the gallon of water = to a 10000000 barrels of oil
 
i wouldnt  try any of this , this is pure-energy he mentionned

i wont try photons till after i exhaust them , thats it , dont use this for pre-ignition

make sure if you remake my coil that its not in a vacuum or motor first ,

make sure you got some ionized gases so those unstable atoms can link to something lol

i am not a chemist pr physicist , you should seriously got to your towns university or college and ask some 1 for this , like i said i wouldnt try this PRE-ignition without being sure its 100% safe

stick to voltage only , i dont know what would happen if the atoms cant link up , you might have a motor blow up in your face
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 09, 2008, 08:18:17 am
dankie

I agree there are risks in this, But the rewards can be overwhelming.
The thing is, One has to go about it safely, and in a sensible manner.
And definitely don't do anything you are not comfortable with.

Spike 
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 10, 2008, 02:54:13 am
The led's are ordered.
I'm going to work on some information on the optoschmitt circuit or some other way to turn them on
and off.
The memo on Meyers circuit states the optoschmitts were going in a ramp state on/off sequence.
Other memos all seem to have a on/off state even with a rotor arm or rotor plate.
There should be a logic circuit easily obtainable to make a sequencial on/off ramp of the laser circuit.
I'm thinking there will be trouble in the electrodes (too much energy) if you do not turn these led's on/off.
I feel this should be safe with control of the on/off that is adjustable.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 13, 2008, 16:05:05 pm
Saw over at energetic forum on laser ignition:

http://www.iitk.ac.in/reach/2008/Energy/LaserFiredICEngine-Dhananjay/Reach%20Symposium_Dhananjay.ppt

About 1.5 meg ppt download.

IndianaBoys
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 13, 2008, 18:33:42 pm
Does it occur that you have unstable H and O atoms seeking electrons, therefor the liberated atoms now are seeking electrons in which only now "other atoms are willing to share that would not share beforehand."

Also to dislodge the electrons it will happen very early in the process so early you may miss it. The cell must oscillate with the power source and you must prove the resonate cavity is in resonance with the power source. If the cell was oscillating with the power source would this mean the cell was in return running the power source, or would this mean the power source was running the resonate cavity, or would this mean the both was in resonance together,, would this mean an electron would have gotton dislodged, jamed, consumed somewhere? I suggest Looking deeper into your setups for this extraction, its rare and i only know of 1 setup that accomplishes it. It's possible the cell at resonance,, well its a fact the cell at resonance will take a load from the power source at oscillation/resonance decreasing the amount of energy needed to run the cell. So not only does the resonate cavity prove to produce more gas than it should but it also proves to help out in the process.

Just a Thought.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 13, 2008, 19:50:39 pm
It says in the technical brief  the "lasers" (LED's) are pulsed .  In the patents (don't remember which ones) he says the electron extraction happens during the off time of the pulse and is used up in a resistive wire.  I say B.S.  He didn't waste that electricity, I think that what was powering the LED's.

I'm pretty sure in one of the videos he talks about pulsing the laser during the off time of the VIC.

Here are some good links about photo dissociation.  http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/physical_science/chemistry/photodissoc_h2o.html&edu=high (http://www.windows.ucar.edu/tour/link=/physical_science/chemistry/photodissoc_h2o.html&edu=high)

http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys301/lectures/spec_lines/Atoms_Nav.swf (http://spiff.rit.edu/classes/phys301/lectures/spec_lines/Atoms_Nav.swf)

Mike
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2008, 03:41:54 am
Mike,

I'm not sure if it will help or not, but here's a pulsing circuit that has adjustable frequency and also has sequential outputs.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,342.0.html (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,342.0.html)
Maybe you could customize it to pulse your lasers (LED's) sequentially.  ???
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 14, 2008, 14:10:22 pm
Mike,

I'm not sure if it will help or not, but here's a pulsing circuit that has adjustable frequency and also has sequential outputs.
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,342.0.html (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,342.0.html)
Maybe you could customize it to pulse your lasers (LED's) sequentially.  ???

Thanks,Tommy I may use that.  Present testing is with a pulse generator, but it can't do a pulse train on its own without an external trigger so this would help.

I think sequentially turning on the LEDs is what Meyers was doing also.  I believe he said that in one of the videos.
 
Mike
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2011, 03:25:42 am
while googling IR and h20, came the words:

water vapour absorption window (926.0969.7 nm)

maybe thats why stan chose IR led's?

on an italian forum, i read:

 "Pulsed potential impacts on the polarized, aligned water molecules not only extend electronsphere ITS, ITS raising quantum state, But Also Affect the photoelectron yield of the water, in effect rendering it more susceptible to photodissociation Than it is in a normal ground state.
With photon emission occuring from Oxygen upon liberation, the quantum efficiency of photolysis becomes greater than one, with each dissociated water molecule triggering the dissociation of others.
The peak absorption point of this photosensitivity is Believed to be in the Infrared, around 900nm, Which does not correspond with That of normal water, Which Is in the UV portion of the spectrum."


Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2011, 08:46:26 am
I also read in some papers that the absorption of water at 1,7um is the maximum. Laser energy is vibrational energy. This frequency induces a vibration in the molecule. Depending on the frequency you have a kind of movement of the atoms. I will try to find here the link. It have much to do with the water blue color and bands of absorption.

If i could buy some lasers i would go for all those fundamental vibration modes. But there are many combination of vibrational modes too. I think tha the symmetrical stretch is the one.


http://www.btinternet.com/~martin.chaplin/vibrat.html (http://www.btinternet.com/~martin.chaplin/vibrat.html)

http://chemistry.ncssm.edu/watervibCS.pdf (http://chemistry.ncssm.edu/watervibCS.pdf)


http://www.atmos.albany.edu/daes/atmclasses/atm422/vib1.htm (http://www.atmos.albany.edu/daes/atmclasses/atm422/vib1.htm)



Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2011, 18:53:50 pm
I don't think the laser energy is used on the water itself, but, the gases. Also, the electromagnetic energy may not be intense enough to actually eject electrons, but, to keep electrons from recombining with the ionized gases. The idea is to keep the electron deficient oxygen atoms ionized until combustion. There may be no need for laser light to fracture hydrogen since the electronegativity of the ambient air gases along with high voltage potentials should be enough to disassociate the water molecules and ionize the hydrogen just before combustion.

Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2011, 20:30:55 pm
He chose red LED's so he would not exceed the work function of the SS.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2011, 21:52:21 pm
is there a reference in SM's materials i could go look up about red led's, for i dont understand yet what is meant by "red LED's so he would not exceed the work function of the SS "

thanks
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2011, 00:18:11 am
Dynodon says all the LEDs were red.
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2011, 03:53:16 am
ok thanks, Stan had a way of thinking, i will give some though to what might be the work function of the ss and what might be limits, for within the work zone are both the reflective surfaces and the polarised eletrodes.....

for my mind is looking at the figure 4-6 of the ambient air ionizer wondering what might be any significance to the drawn curve over the length of the positive and negative voltage zones, and if the colour of the led's were chosen to, say be red, so a limited amount of effort by the led's is put into the molecules - for what if more energy was put in by the led's in the voltage zone than needed or intended, might it produce something more than required or wanted....perhaps the thinking was to limit the energy influence of the led's  in that zone to say prevent an ignition there thus limiting the work function of the s/s? that would be keeping with stans views on kiss, safety, regulatory compliance and end result engineering.

im neither a scientist nor skilled electrical, physics nor mechanical engineer, the reasons im putting thought to this is to work out what is a practical and useful way to actually make such a device and to use it in the near future rather than spend a lot of time effort money and energy on just the wfc  my thoughts think there needs to be another step taken to make something practically useful- not a criticism at all but ive done a lot of reading over several forums and manuals and a lot of effort i see is still at the WFC and resonant choke stages. While there are brilliant and skilled people putting their valuable effort there, i want to find a way to understand what is required so a gas processor can be simply made to work, whether it be on an engine using a wfc or not.

cheers
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2011, 05:23:08 am
use red LEDs
Title: Re: Stan Meyer's hydrogen fracturing process using Lasers
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2011, 10:49:28 am
Man if i was going to construct a Gas processor i would make it like this:


1 the inner electrode would be my amp consuming device, around this (red hot heating filament) I would put a cylinder with high voltage as to deflect the electrons accelerating them so they collide with the air ionizing and liberating further electrons. This new liberated electrons than go into the heating element.


would be a good start.


In my opinion the heating element will already emit enough IR photons.