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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on March 05, 2014, 16:17:44 pm

Title: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 05, 2014, 16:17:44 pm
Meyer refer to resonant action explaining that is all about movement and deflection of the ions...

I worked this days with many concepts of magnetism and some new exiting experiments that are keeping me from sleep and simply i decided to think about the resonant action stan proposed again..

I was thinking about what if we could simply create a high voltage strong field but instead of pulsing it and its than switched off and reverse the polarity in a ballistic manner to collide the ions and electrons in the bath.

The idea is:

choke connected in series to a dc source  a secondary of a transformer and the cell, the primary is wound facing the secondary and this is pulsed in such a manner that the pulse sums to the dc during pulses on an rapid enough completely reverse the polarity of the cell shooting the ions back into the water as the magnetic field collapses ... as the ions cannot go fast enough they get ionized and the electrons should create an avalanche like effect.

So basically you are applying Dc and a Pulsed current at the same time...

The higher is the resistivity of the water the higher is going to be the voltages possible to be used... the higher the back pulse the greater is the ballistic action...

Seems a good theory? 

My idea is that the Dc creates an steady electric field but as the choke can resist an ac current the electric field can be efficiently and very rapidly changed in the shape you want it to.

The operational parameters for this must be the voltage the capacitance of the cell, the distance, from this you get the electric field and the number of ions that can be collected at the electrode. Than applying this counter electric field simply accelerate the electrons and or ions back to their original position but as the capacitances involved are really small its clear that it can be a very fast event.

The greater is the resistivity of the water the greater must be the efficiency since you need to spend less amps to attract n ions to the electrode. This allow higher voltage to be applied increasing the products of the reactions.
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13337;image)
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 05, 2014, 23:38:56 pm
All this was created using knowledge that i acquired thru lot of hard study and years literally of hard work of guessing with all the terms meyer used like chokes for example.

Chokes are used to keep ac from dc line. this is the definition

resonant action as he described is the oscillation back and forth movement of the ions along the procedure of polarization process.

Basically i guess the resonant action is what is needed.

The polarization process is simply apply dc to system.

The resonant action should interact to let the capacitor get into a tremendous generating stage!

The regenerative snubber is calculated to keep the maximum voltage of the primary kickback controlled within the mosfet used. (relays could be used)

A capacitor can be added between the S and N poles of the chokes... this would allow it to become a resonant choke system

Example lets takes meyers numbers but ignoring the diode

5 amps at maybe 100v plus maybe 100v pulsed but when the pulse collapse the voltage can be as high as 4000 volts...

I think meyer always refer to resistive wire considering the fact of the dc flowing in the circuit...
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 06, 2014, 01:05:43 am
Example circuit:

L1 100t ( less than 0,1 ohm)
L2 300t ( 1ohm )
chokes 30t
L3  20t for 600v mosfets and up to 100v input

So the pulse sums 100v to 300v during pulse on and the collapsing pulse can be as high as 1500v on the secondary...

A capacitor maybe 100nf between N and S could be useful.. it forms a filter ...







Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 06, 2014, 09:02:36 am
I already simulated this and its all about getting duty cycles greater than 70% and up to 95% to get the resonant action effect

the capacitor is relevant as i said from 100nf to 1uf is ok

the chokes up to 1mh is ok

the capacitor cell must be small (the smaller the capacitance the greater is the voltage regardless of the resistance (in terms))

The snubber also must be implemented only with zenner i guess or crowbar active circuit...

$ 1 1.0000000000000002E-6 382.76258214399064 30 5.0 50
v 320 352 320 144 0 0 40.0 50.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
r 320 416 368 416 0 1.0
w 368 144 512 144 0
w 608 496 608 320 0
l 320 144 240 144 0 9.999999999999999E-5 0.1419302024992844
l 368 416 416 416 0 9.999999999999999E-5 -0.1419302024983062
T 512 144 608 320 2 0.03 3.0 1.0672368395613594 2.068338460626016 0.999
w 320 352 320 416 0
w 512 384 512 368 0
w 416 416 544 416 0
c 736 304 736 416 0 2.0E-9 -275.5262872040953
w 736 192 736 304 0
w 656 416 544 416 0
w 512 336 512 320 0
c 528 352 576 352 0 1.0E-9 557.5379913024173
r 576 384 576 352 0 10.0
r 784 304 784 416 0 500.0
w 784 304 736 304 0
w 736 416 784 416 0
f 464 352 512 352 0 1.5
g 320 416 320 432 0
g 512 384 512 400 0
R 432 352 384 352 0 2 10000.0 15.0 15.0 0.0 0.96
w 528 336 512 336 0
c 416 496 416 416 0 9.999999999999999E-6 49.47185658006457
w 240 144 240 496 0
w 240 496 416 496 0
w 480 496 608 496 0
r 432 352 464 352 0 10.0
r 368 144 320 144 0 1.0
w 512 384 576 384 0
z 448 240 512 240 1 0.805904783 1000.0
g 448 240 448 288 0
d 736 144 608 144 1 0.805904783
l 608 144 608 192 2 0.1 0.20755138712963828
r 608 192 736 192 0 10.0
r 512 240 512 320 0 10.0
r 480 496 416 496 0 1.0
w 656 416 736 416 0
w 736 144 736 192 0
w 528 352 528 336 0
o 10 1 0 290 3428.8275429960554 1.0715086071862676 0 -1
o 0 2 1 291 1197.2621413014756 9.765625E-55 1 -1
o 24 16 0 34 320.0 1.6 2 -1
o 34 8 0 298 74.82888383134222 0.18707220957835557 3 -1

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13347;image)
Title: For all surprise
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 06, 2014, 10:38:31 am
The wave form meyer shows if you take strict sense what i'm talking about seems just like a full wave rectified wave except that it is biased. So his waveform is not from rectification... a diode would kill the effect in the way he show on diagrams.

The thing about that pulsed waveform meyer show is that it aways return to zero volts but actually as its biased is just stay positive the greater part of the time than it simply reverts the voltage quickly and violently...
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13343;image)
 
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 06, 2014, 18:45:33 pm
4000v would be great as a small peak, but how?
The cell will have very low resistance....
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 06, 2014, 19:35:08 pm
So whats the objective of that circuit layout? why does one end of the secondary goto positive of the battery? whats the purpose of that? not sure why secondary is not across the cell  alone but is in series with the battery and the cell along with other elements.
+V>inductor>resistor>secondary>inductor>resistor> cell> inductor>resistor> ground...
along with some parallel and bypass elements along the way...
what is the objective of this?
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 06, 2014, 21:10:25 pm
Steve The higher the purity of the water the greater is going to be the voltage its going to reach. Ideally very pure water should be used and it should probably constantly purified. The idea is to charge the cell and rapidly revert the voltage such that the ions can't discharge so they are forced to collide instead ..  the cell get charged and than discharged by the collapse of the pulse that helped charging it.


Outlawstc The circuit layout is mixing dc and pulsed voltage over it.  The DC provides the static electric field (the biasing) and the circuit pulses this electric field at points increasing it and at other points reversing it to cause the resonant action during the electrical polarization process. I added resistors around to simulate for internal resist aces of the coils and source... the chokes and the capacitor keeps the high frequency away from the DC source... The other coil in series with the cell having a diode in parallel is attempt to create more resistance for the moment of the pulse on than to the moment of the collapse.

I tried to use existing components on the simulation...  although i guess on real life the transformer is not going to saturate that much...

(http://iwanthho.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/res-pulse.gif?w=460)

This wave form is the same as the one i'm proposing, but as i explained it has a Dc bias implied i mean, it stay for 95% of the time applying DC+Pulsed voltage than when the pulse terminate it applies DC-collapsing voltage.

The opposite could work too maybe but i'm not really sure....

Most of the components could be took right off of the system including the chokes... i thought they were helping but to that worth much...



Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 07, 2014, 05:14:27 am
I think is the best theory i designed i the last years

Please comments are desired to start this discussion.

Have started trying?
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 07, 2014, 08:37:37 am
Meyer refer to resonant action explaining that is all about movement and deflection of the ions...

I worked this days with many concepts of magnetism and some new exiting experiments that are keeping me from sleep and simply i decided to think about the resonant action stan proposed again..

I was thinking about what if we could simply create a high voltage strong field but instead of pulsing it and its than switched off and reverse the polarity in a ballistic manner to collide the ions and electrons in the bath.

The idea is:

choke connected in series to a dc source  a secondary of a transformer and the cell, the primary is wound facing the secondary and this is pulsed in such a manner that the pulse sums to the dc during pulses on an rapid enough completely reverse the polarity of the cell shooting the ions back into the water as the magnetic field collapses ... as the ions cannot go fast enough they get ionized and the electrons should create an avalanche like effect.

So basically you are applying Dc and a Pulsed current at the same time...



Switching polarity while hitting high voltage is how the "Super Heated Steam Generator" "produces steam with converting the water into the gases."
Hyper speed friction makes steam.

jp
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 07, 2014, 12:18:05 pm
Th steam resonator should be te same but he probably switch the polarity before the gas is released from the reaction...
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 07, 2014, 22:15:40 pm
Th steam resonator should be te same but he probably switch the polarity before the gas is released from the reaction...

Yes, just clarifying...next step is "Electron entrapment/recycle back to input = monotomic H H O
JP
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2014, 01:55:05 am
Heres how i see it
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13365;image)
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2014, 06:44:03 am
Heres how i see it
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13365;image)

Yes, like whiplash...
jp
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2014, 13:31:44 pm
Heres how i see it
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13365;image)

Yes, like whiplash...
jp

Notice that Vo situation to Vn situation vary with duty cycle applied to the transformer. the wave form is not going to be like that but the Vn is the level between the positive pulse and the negative pulse. (the zero level)
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 09:26:28 am
Heres how i see it
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13365;image)

Yes, like whiplash...
jp

Notice that Vo situation to Vn situation vary with duty cycle applied to the transformer. the wave form is not going to be like that but the Vn is the level between the positive pulse and the negative pulse. (the zero level)

Stan just called it "step charging."
Title: Kiss method
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 13:55:27 pm
The more i work at it more i think, why nobody succeeded in this way if its so simple. I already tried this diagrams since some years ago... The only difference i feel is that now i get more a clear idea of what it should made like..

I tried to read some older posts from mine and others i felt like i was talking to myself from the past... like a time travel backwards from my point of view here in the future but is like the things i wrote traveled to the future and changed the future... =)

I remember myself making this same diagrams 4 years back in time and trying it and discussing... but no result and that is what bothers me. Why should it work now, i guess i'm afraid that it don't work another time and im going to start all over again designing a new theory and another way to achieve my goal.


I guess the kiss is what meyer added to the technology that gives the ability to common mortals to discover it, he said keep it simple stupid don't make it complicated.

I worked yesterday all day trying to add capacitors and other stuff to the circuit but no real improvements...

actually i found that it works best with the minimum amount of components possible..

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13368;image)

Title: Alternator setup
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 14:59:20 pm
I guess the alternator setup was used having a dc current flowing thru its armature coils and meyer may have applied a pulsed voltage to the field coil in such a manner to let it collapse... the coils may have be connected to three cells each... having no diodes or whatsoever in the line...

I'm almost sure that meyer may have changed the field coil proprieties/... i know is not clear to all but i guess it may work as a primary and the inductance is too high for that... My best guess....

I have an alternator here but i have only one and i would not like to took it apart probably is better to construct a new setup for me to try that out... but i think is possible to any of you try that! and post your results...




Title: Re: Kiss method
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 15:18:23 pm
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2855.0;attach=13368;image)


I believe this is the goal... Getting around 300V worth of ions collected around the plates and hit them with at least 1500V in the opposite direction to force electrons ejection to cause collisions and sub sequential ionization of the molecules and atoms.

I have a new friend that probably could be capable to calculating the mean free path and other parameters to understand more clearly how much fields are really necessary.

Meyer put it in a simple manner using ss plates and chokes... other patents uses plastics, other ceramic materials, i went into all that, constructed many things and nothing never worked properly, my first impression could be that i'm not really good at it, but i guess may be a frustration of all any kind of over unity effect really proved without questioning.

Meyer discuss thru the polarization process bla bla bla and in the end he just says that to get the hydrogen gas on demand you need to cause the resonant compounding action that is:

Cause the oscillation back and forth of the ions inside of it causing collisions and liberate gas in a subcritical state.

I simply asked myself, how in hell he did that without ever crossing the voltage backwards? Because i'm assuming he gave false statements like the potential will never cross an absolute potential ... witch must be a lie otherwise the resonant actions is not possible. Well it could only be at the electron extraction circuit varieties,,,  however if you substitute the diode by a dc source the game is changed, since then you are creating a constant DC electric field across the cell, however you are pulsing modulating the electric field sometimes increasing it sometimes radically reversing it!

Dan dan fort said that 1500 volts were needed to get results... this tells me something...

I just believe now it can work because i kind of know what im doing.

Meyer would never give up the secrecy of patents... i'm never give up for breaking the system.
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 15:40:10 pm
A bias dc with hv pulses from collapsing coils makes sense.
Thats what Danforth descriped and he talked with Meyer....
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 15:49:13 pm
Remember me publishing pictures of my scope on which you could clearly see the negative bemf pulse coming of the cell after pulsing it?


Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 16:18:21 pm
I remember Steve, that back pulse i also saw it on books too... i remember that discussion...

The idea is that we want to switch the dc electric fields using coils being pulsed... You got it. this creates the conditions to happen what meyer described as resonant action during the polarization process..

So basically the polarization process consist of applying Dc to the cell..

The resonant action process consist of pulsing the cell above and bellow the applied polarization process.

this cause molecular ringing danforth talks about and probably if we keep getting the voltage higher during the combustion we get into the hydrogen fracturing process.

meyer was very clear but good understanding of the circuit was necessary to understand what he was talking about.



Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 17:08:16 pm
Steve that beef pulse on the cell could be due to 2 things...

one:  the plates attracts charges and neutralizes when disconnected

two: there might be a certain measurable inductive phenomena in the cell.
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 20:42:15 pm
water is a dipole molecule there's a hysteresis when the voltage is changed in the water capacitor until the dipoles align to the e field and lower the capacitor voltage ...
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 21:19:29 pm
Steve that beef pulse on the cell could be due to 2 things...

one:  the plates attracts charges and neutralizes when disconnected

two: there might be a certain measurable inductive phenomena in the cell.

I think that the force bounces a little bit back, like an inductor.
However, only just the layers of ions on the plates.
The rest of the charge is in the waterbath.
Compare it with a capacitor that does not discharge in totall.
If you would be able to build a circuit that catches the bemf pulse in a coil, like a buck converter, you might step up voltage....





Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 21:19:41 pm
water is a dipole molecule there's a hysteresis when the voltage is changed in the water capacitor until the dipoles align to the e field and lower the capacitor voltage ...

Good point, in terms of dielectric the dipoles is going to take a time t to change their position and actually they start a oscillatory movement when that happens, it keeps swinging rotating about its axis at a given frequency...

As we are reverting the electric field the molecules should be able to rotate.

But my point is that as the ions are at a distance x from the electrode its able to discharge the capacitor is going to be able to reverse the voltage without discharging much of the ions..
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 21:20:34 pm
The resonance goes between cell and coil.
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2014, 23:49:07 pm
You are talking about the polarization Steve? I mean that voltage that is lost when the voltage source is disconnected from the capacitor? you believe you could do it again? do you remember the setup?


Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2014, 13:03:49 pm
The power was just switched off and on with a PWM.
2n3055 was used as a switch, hooked on a tubecell with 5 tubes. Dont use a FET!!!!!!!!!!! FETS have snubbers and go into resonance. The transistor gave a nice bemf peak.
It was that simple.
Ca. 20khz.
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2014, 16:10:26 pm
The power was just switched off and on with a PWM.
2n3055 was used as a switch, hooked on a tubecell with 5 tubes. Dont use a FET!!!!!!!!!!! FETS have snubbers and go into resonance. The transistor gave a nice bemf peak.
It was that simple.
Ca. 20khz.


Did you had a diode across (antiparallel) the transistor for preventing reverse voltage across it?

Do you remember how much negatively it kick back?

I'm going to try this to see if i can see this effect and try to get to know why it happens...
Title: Re: Kiss method
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2014, 16:12:47 pm

... to force electrons ejection to cause collisions and sub sequential ionization

In my view, creating this electron avalanche should be your only goal here ..nothing else.
...and the more complicated you make it, the further away you will be from getting that result.


Yes Mookie it seems to me the more complicated it gets the far it get from the real deal.

It seems to me that h20 power (edward mitchel) was correct in his understanding of the resonant action but wrong about how should it be constructed to get such

 
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2014, 17:17:28 pm
No diodes across the cell.
But you need amps going thru your cell.
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 11, 2014, 12:19:12 pm
No i meant across the transistor... for protection...

Yesterday i fixed the frequency generator and improved the cell design, today i'm finishing the cell and i'm going to look after some pure water to get to test it right.



Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 12, 2014, 07:29:55 am
Men, my physicist friend just came to visit my lab... He is very interested and in about 2 weeks we are going to examine my theories about the resonant action and other stuff i'm being into to try to understand ok if it work but where the energy should come from? Thats going to be a major step since understanding this is going to allow better understanding of the mechanism that generate the energy.

I'm very happy and full of energy now. But incredibly conveniently an avalanche of work came thru this week and i'm damn with sadly very limited time to spend on the project.

Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 12, 2014, 22:04:49 pm
gravitational field can create energy.. electrons going up a conductor gain free gravitational potential energy... I thought you were studying physics??? I haven't finished with physics yet.

if 2 ions are moving parallel with different speeds then that hooper force might come to play...  :P

 2 beams of charges having different parallel velocities then there's a force that attracts the beams together.

even if energy can't be created and then if the electrons and other subatomic particles can't be attracted to earth is because they're not dielectrics, what is gravity? (not what textbooks say)
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2014, 11:28:43 am
Geon, i understood well?

The hopper force happens when you got 2 opposite polarity ions going in the same direction but with different velocities?

In what direction goes the force?

I had an idea yesterday and created a new thread. Water coil!

To use electromagnetic induction to move the iOnS thru the medium...  "generating electricity" while generating the gas...
Title: Re: Resonant Action (the Resonant choke system) Explained
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2014, 23:49:51 pm
its actually the impulse and not the force... with lorentz law you can arrive to this two charges moving create a moving magnetic field that affects the movement of the other charge because force is exerted...if you use a lorentz transformation with both speeds the same the normal F=qv x B is zero because v1=v2 but when the speeds are different there's an impulse or if you integrate force exerted ... the polarity of the charges must be the same... in an electron beam the outer electrons never have the same speed as the inner electrons and because of that the beam is actually concentrated when in high voltages .. its the coulomb repulsion versus this force ... and I saw some interesting facts about nitrogen diatomic, it has a distinct atomic orbital that aligns to an electric field when atoms move in the direction of the spark they come together and new atomic species are created , and what about gravity how is this possible electrons can go up without being affected by gravity gaining gravitational potential energy... if now you say that the electrons are pulled by earth when they accend then the same applies when they descend and energy is created... from nothing.. just massive bodies. is gravity electrical??

molecules are tiny dielectrics

the force brings the charges together