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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on January 20, 2014, 14:54:20 pm

Title: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 14:54:20 pm
Have you ever tried to understand how is the magnetic field direction in your tube cell?

what if? those moving ions generates magnetic fields… they have opposite charges and move in opposite direction but when you apply current to the cell from the bottom of two tubes it forms a kind of closed turn shorted in fact… so its current induce a magnetic field in a certain direction ..

If the outer tube is positive and the inner tube is negative the movement of the positive ions is going to be inwards… this generate a magnetic field looking from above in the clock wise direction around the gap.

now if the tubes has a gradient of current they have as well a magnetic field but now comes the difference.

If you put the positive wire on the bottom of the outer tube the positive current gradient goes up thru the tube so the magnetic field is also clock wise.

IF you put the negative wire in the inner tube bottom as well you form a closed like shorted turn that should induce a magnetic field on the water but not only that, it also would cause induction…

what if meyer used this counter induction simply to counter the movement of the damn water impeding or maybe neutralizing the current flow???

whats the difference of trying to neutralize this fields? are they important?
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 20:08:20 pm
there are certainly many configurations possible… but i guess this induction is a missing link …

I thought of a making the tube sliced to form a toroid like electromagnet… as long as theres enough induction maybe the water could turn into hydrogen with no amp flow,…
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2014, 11:58:14 am
Hello Mookie

I remember your electrolysis accelerator from long time.... I tested it too.. but i could not conclude if the amount of hydrogen is higher except for the fact that they detach from the vibration of the tubes,,,

I'm meaning the self magnetic field of the tube caused by the current of electrolysis and the movement of the ions... not anything external
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2014, 15:06:08 pm
I'm meaning the self magnetic field of the tube caused by the current of electrolysis and the movement of the ions... not anything external

Seb,

Yours is a good question that I spent a fair bit of time working on myself,

I concluded that the magnetic field that you speak of is most definitely there, but is a weak field
due to the fact that it is unconfined (not confined like it is around a conductive wire),
so I don't believe that induction is possible in that gap between the electrodes.
...but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying.

Most of my experimenting involved applying external magnetic fields.

I once started a project but could't finish because it leak all the water and was kind of mess... But the idea is if you apply a magnetic field north pointing upwards thru the tube cell... and now you apply a alternating voltage to the tubes there should be induction on a alternate coil due to the movement of the ions being forced to be in the circumference of the gap....  for say the more you add load to this coil the more the movement of the ions are restricted... of course the tube being of resistive material the copper of the output coil should be good to take the energy out of the system...

Basically magnetic field don't do any work and should be un affected, since work is Force times distance times cosine of 90 because the force is perpendicular...

But now the application of electric voltage cause induction in a manner that the induction hinder the movements of the ions...


something to think about..

what if is a superconducting coil?
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2014, 19:39:15 pm
you've never heard of eddy currents ?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddy_current
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2014, 13:12:47 pm
I understand your point...
i just guess to accelerate electrolysis can mean many things.. but if you are looking into reducing the min voltage required to electrolysis than you are in the right direction whatever you are doing!

the problem is that in this way half the cell receive one polarity the other half the other polarity too and thereto they cancel each other to some degree..

In my idea the tube cell is require to form like a closed loop of water and this water is the medium... it could be a gas at this point... and i found many reasoning for the EEC coils now...

On a gas the maximum speed and acceleration of a ion is much greater than in water

as the acceleration dictates the amount of energy radiation that a system can develop than is clear that is better to have greater acceleration..

in copper the drift speed of the electrons are very small thereto a very small acceleration is possible since there are so many free charge...

in water or maybe a gas there not so much free charge so their drift speed can be much much higher than in copper... although ions mass is greater than electrons they travel in much greater speeds. and thereto are allowed to have very very high acceleration

take a look at willian barbats patent about how he explain his energy amplification...

Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2014, 18:16:30 pm
 how does barbat explain the energy amplification?
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2014, 06:17:45 am
how does barbat explain the energy amplification?

Barbats used a superconducting or semiconducting coil to amplify the inductive energy sent from the primary...

He explain that this materials has electrons that has low effective mass so a acceleration force makes it have a much greater acceleration given the lower mass..

I'm saying  that of course a hydrogen ion weights 1,673 · 10−27 kg

An electron or a proton has 1,6 · 10−19 coulombs of charge but a normal conduction free charge electron  weights 1/1836 the proton weigh.

the problem is in copper for example there are so many free charges that their drift speed is very very very slow.

in water to have conduction the ions must cross the section of the water so they need to have a much greater drift speed.

If you had hydrogen gas ionized for example it could have enormously greater speeds ...helliium too..

 
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2014, 09:47:01 am
damn I see this drift speed thing pop up everywhere, http://www.haroldaspden.com/ if you have time to read this :P  I don't
generally if you have two unequal materials and pass current throough them the electron drift speed is different in each of them, when you stop the current conservation of momentum dictates that there are some collisions between slow and fast moving charges producing some energy according to some\ok?this behavior is speed dependent.look up my old posts
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2014, 14:32:03 pm

In my idea the tube cell is require to form like ...


Then build it.

I'M THINKING HOW to build it...


certainly different materials has different drift carachteristcs

I was thinking about my project and discovered that the ions actually is going to be accelerated to the same direction which not necessarily nullify the induction... the inner tube having he negative voltage is going to have negative ions to travel a smaller diameter circle and the positive charges much lighter creates greater radiation than the negative charges...
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2014, 23:07:29 pm
page 39 http://www.haroldaspden.com/physics-without-einstein/Pwech2.pdf
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2014, 13:10:42 pm
I was thinking about this feedback systems... its the way definitely but is not going to work if theres not an amplification of energy.

I'm getting super conductors to check barbats claims...i guess this is a good explanations.
 and make some cool experiments.



Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2014, 09:30:12 am
I 'll try to express my felling in a mathematical manner

If you apply an infinite magnetic field in the y direction, and apply an electric field between a pair of spaced tubes aligned parallel to to the y axis. let the center of the tubes be at zero of x axis.

You get that the ions is going to cycle around the gap infinitely...  in the zx plane....

this mean that theres going to be induction since the positive ions are much faster than the negative ions... or if further ionization is reached than in the opposite manner the free electrons are going to be much faster than the heavy ions..

   Maybe that experiment donald smith made with the plasma ball consisted in this.  think about.
He states that the induced voltage is very high..  maybe al that is needed is a magnetic field to keep the rays of the plasma globe like a tornado. vortex like...
Title: Re: The magnetic field in a tube cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2014, 10:00:08 am
but the ions have different trajectory radius from electrons so they will hit the walls of the tubes.. this could work with defined fields and mass if no losses exist and no collisions
and the E field depends on the radius ...