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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on December 20, 2013, 13:01:54 pm

Title: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2013, 13:01:54 pm
I was thinking about the transformers operation and basically when you apply a positive to the dot at the other dot this positive is transported thru the changing magnetic field. When the secondary is loaded the electrons flow in opposite direction than at the primary this creates a counter magnetic field that reduced the primary magnetic field (vectors canceling) and thereto makes more current flow from the source to keep current flowing at the load.

This is the very basics o how a transformer worlk.

I was thinking about what it we could simply switch the magnetic field of an electromagnet or a magnet thru two magnetic circuits comprised of core and secondary and having a resonant coils that serves to direct the magnetic field.

In my point of view the magnetic field of the electromagnet magnet is not going to change since is static and thus its not being required to ever be generated.

Thereto the resonant circuit is tuned to have just enough current to allow the magnetic field change or switch as many times as possible thru the two magnetic circuits.

Does it makes sense?

 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2013, 13:37:05 pm
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13166;image)From my point of view its also a frequency doubler since as the magnetic field increase and decrease 2 times in each cycle.

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2013, 16:24:50 pm
Please answers, questions, opinions knowledge... whatever

during resonance the capacitor gets charged twice and discharge twice each full cycle such as the inductor theres two rises and two falling magnetic fields

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2013, 21:29:18 pm
Im just beginning to play with transformers myself... burnt up my last 2 yesterday :/
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2013, 16:04:21 pm
If we could have a material such as a transistor for magnetic field than it were goping to be  easy?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2013, 21:33:08 pm
Hi Fabio,

Like always, i am impressed with your ideas :-)
I had done some xperiments with resonance transformers.
Its not so difficult to get resonance, however all power you extract from such resonanse setup, you always have to put back in... No magic or zero point energy, as far as i have seen..

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2013, 13:36:15 pm
Hi Fabio,

Like always, i am impressed with your ideas :-)
I had done some xperiments with resonance transformers.
Its not so difficult to get resonance, however all power you extract from such resonanse setup, you always have to put back in... No magic or zero point energy, as far as i have seen..

Cheers
Steve

Thanks Steve. I didn't succeed either yet to extract more power from resonance than i put in. But i never tried to think about this in this manner. About the magnetic field. Those brazilians got me thinking. Barbat, and donald L smith too,

If you remember the resonant circuit i show in 2008 when i added a magnet to the inductor the voltage raise a little 10 % but i could not measure what was really going at that time...

Now that i have some more knowledge i'm thinking not only on the coils numbers but also the geometry and the actual magnetic fields that are actuating in the circuit to try to get around the counter magnetomotive force. .

I guess is possible to build a material that can shield magnetic fields spending little energy just like a transistor does to electric current.

This would allow to switch huge static magnetic field (very low cost) generating infinite amounts of power, depending on the frequency and the sizes of the coils and magnets. The answer to this is how do we control the flow of magnetic field.

I learned at university that magnetic fields do not cross each other, so maybe using a perpendicular geometry we could switch the field without causing induction,,

In this circuit i tried to decouple the resonance from the induction to use the resonance just to switch the fields resonantly... 

I'm still thinking about that,,,,
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2013, 18:23:31 pm
The only real system that can turn off its magnetic propertys is a coil.
Its my only other project, besides the water as fuel project, too.
Its with magnets and coils.
But not on the conventional manner. The idea took two years and its adult enough now to build the first setup.
Will make some pics of it when it runs.
Of course i have high hopes on a selfsustaining machine  :)
The road to this setup was fun enough. I learned a lot.

And still workin here on the gas separation, monotomic hydrogen cell / ammonia cell.
Both projects i hope to share, when people like.

Cheers
Steve
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2013, 19:13:52 pm
http://jnaudin.free.fr/steorn/indexen.htm
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2013, 10:26:44 am
I think the idea is that there can not be crossing magnetic or electric fields. So when the field inside the toroid is high it blocks the attraction of the magnets. 

When they use a toroid? there are two magnetic fields generated, one inside the torus and the other could be canceled if the windings are winded in a manner as to not go in only one direction along the toroid. But if its not, particularly that alignment proposed is somewhat equivalent to using a coil.   

I made some advance in my drawings... i came up with the idea of a a feedback transformer, basically two transformers the first being feed by the source and having a second primary coil. Its secondary coil is connected to the primary coil of the other transformer and the secondary of the second transformer is connected thru the load to the other primary of the first transformer.

This arrangement consist of a feedback since the more energy the load consumes the more voltage goes to the second primary coil and thereto this same by induction must go to the secondary and thereto to the primary of the second transformer.

could it be over unity?   
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2013, 11:35:12 am
try it then
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2013, 11:38:25 am
I'm thinking here what components i'm going to use and windings turns factors,,,
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2013, 03:48:41 am
I'm thinking here what components i'm going to use and windings turns factors,,,

I can not find anything that will help teach  determaining factors for primary turns Seb, can you describe basic primary turns factors?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2013, 20:39:00 pm
To determine the primary turns you need to know the Bmax of the core you want to use, the crossectional area, frequency and voltage of operation.

Than you apply the formula according to your situation, if pulsed dc, or square or ac wave.

Once you know the primary turns you can set the other secondary needed turns.

Thats because you are using the equation to determine how much flux is allowed into this transformer.


I was thinking a transformer does not offer a BEMF like motors do when they speed up.
You draw current from the secondary you reduce the primary inductance and lot o current go in...

I'm thinking a way to have a kind of BEMF of motors inside the transformer to help it become a generator of energy and not a transformer...

I don't know if its impossible... 

1Henrie = 1volt*1second /1amp

This mean if you apply 1 volt to a 1 henrie coil in 1 second 1 amper will be flowing

If you than multiply the Bmax of the core material to the crossectional area in m2 you get the maximum flux allowed on that core in webbers.

And the turns become = V/Webers/Frequency/4,44 for AC

If i remember well

I posted it some time ago ion my projects section somewhere...
Title: Special announce
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2014, 17:26:19 pm
I guess i discovered a way to extract energy from space time using a magnet and a transformer

The first time i saw something strange regarding adding magnets to coils is that when i had my resonant tank with the magnet simply glued to the coil the voltage was higher. I didn't had the knowledge to understand why it happened… 

Basically the way we use transformers is rather stupid.

The primary sets a positive changing magnetic field that induce in the secondary a current in the opposite direction than the current in the primary. Obviously than the magnetic field in it will cancel the primary magnetic field. Thats the basics of Lenz law, when a magnet approximates to a shorted coil the induced current in the coil will create a magnetic field that opposes or create a contrary force to the movement of the magnet.

This new year i thought a way to induce a current in the secondary in the same direction as the current going into the primary, by a negative changing magnetic field that  results in the current induced on the secondary reinforcing the primary magnetic field instead of killing it which should further induce greater emf in the secondary. So it wont create that counter magnetic field that makes transformers to consume high amps when loaded. 

Its the situation of a magnet dropping into a coil but instead of being repel by the lenz reaction force, the induced current creates a magnetic field ever increasing that only causes more attraction and induction and so on. 

Its all theory but i guess its correct since i used only physics laws to develop it.


Happy new year
 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 03, 2014, 23:47:48 pm
happy new year that's good news
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 04:05:53 am
Today i read many patents to see if i could find some other references…

The problem is that on patents they just don't need to explain why things works. For example there are patents that consider redirecting the magnetic field but they seem to not consider the induction it causes.. .or didn't noticed…

I got this idea because i got studied some about those guys from north brazil from the electron captor system… their patent they explain the lenz rules and i could finally understand that a increasing magnetic field is the same as approximating a magnet to a coil.
 I went to the south of brazil to recover some pieces that i had at a collaborator place, basically many big cores and magnets,.. and during the the years eve i got this kind of revelation.

My old friend got me thinking,,, get specialized into ferrite cores, he said…

I guess is possible, to prove mathematically that i'm correct about this but i don't have the patience nor the mathematical skills to do so. I'm going to ask some friend from the physics mathematic course for some help with that….

Anyway i have a experiment to try prove that i'm correct.

Its simple a transformer and a magnet glued together like my first experiment. Basically the transformer must be pulsed and a load connected to the secondary. The primary must generate a counter magnetic field to the magnet pole (repelling) when energized. And basically the primary should have the electric current going into the dot while the secondary must also have electric current going into the dot. The higher the frequency i guess the more energy comes out.

In a normal transformer when you apply a positive to the dot normally you get a positive going out of the dot making a current so as to counter the initial mag field.

But In the case of the proposed experiment the positive enter the dot and a negative should be induced at the secondary dot. If you have a bifilar coil one is going to be positive and the other negative. Strangely this is the opposite of lenz rules and this permits infinite energy to be created!

Of course an oscilloscope having 2 channels is the only need to prove its correct.

I'm planing to make tests with water heating using the energy generated (in a calorimeter like) to analyze precisely the power output.     

Br


   
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 08:09:04 am
Hi Seb, you have me digging thru mounds of paper and alltho I cant find exactly what you are referring to basically because im not understanding but ill  post some patent numbers I have here from research along ago I have on hand:
3333203  : Pulse Generator with Standing Wave Energy Storage (1967)
3576467 : High Voltage Spark Generator From Low Voltage Supply  (1967)

ehhh im sitting here with folder on top of folder.. ill try and find interesting reading for you and post more.
The theme from the 35676467 patent is an interesting primary addition is something your thinking?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 12:11:30 pm
in this experiment are the coils wounded normally? are you sure the magnet will work like this?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 12:29:23 pm
I was planning to test it today but appeared some recordings to do today probably tomorrow or monday i can test it.

I guess the MEG is somehow similar.  I than read all the patents that cited it and that it cited. Motionless energy generator,,,

as i said is just a transformer having a magnet glued to it of course it also must be pulsed and the polarity of the primary magnetic field must oppose the magnet field. Is similar to getting the magnet away from the secondary or create a negative changing magnetic field the fall of magnetic field thats why i know from my analysis that it should work. 


I took a brief look at the patent you say it just seem to take advantage of the collapsing field that i mentioned some time ago in my posts to generate the high voltage,,,

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 13:13:36 pm
so there's one pole close to both coils right?? won't the secondary coil try to maintain the falling magnetic field and create a counter magnetic field to the primary?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 13:24:27 pm
I guess you should analyze the flux on the core as a total, if the primary send a back flux to the magnet its reducing the flux on the core, the secondary induced current (falling magnetic field) also should work to reduce this flux thats why i say it helps the primary magnetic field instead of being a counter magnetic field but indeed its also counter the magnet mag field so it increases the flux reduction it should increase the emf at the secondary... 

Basically is a magnetically biased transformer working with preferred direction… If you than deenergize the primary the collapse of the field will induce a positive in the primary and reverse the polarity of the secondary so it becomes positive and positive at the dots…

During energization positive into primary dot negative at secondary dot

During off pulse, positive at the primer dot and positive at the secondary dot

if everything is correct.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polarity_(mutual_inductance)

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 14:54:05 pm
but the secondary coil creates a counter magnetic field to the primary .. isnt it like having a tranformer inside a homogeneous magnetic field?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 15:32:47 pm
No, in my idea the secondary current aways flows in the same direction of the primary current, so it never creates a counter magnetic field. Assuming you are reducing the field only to zero and not going negative reversing it. 

The problem is that i guess the magnetic field is not homogeneous in this case.

The point is that is not the magnetic field of the primary that induces the voltage but the magnetic field changing negatively.

After the pulse terminates the induction is exclusively from the magnet.

So in worst case you apply energy just to reduce the field… even if i'm saying as the secondary consumes current it also helps reducing this field, meaning the higher the load the fastest the field goes to zero and higher should be the frequency. This mean some limitations but its a fantastic concept that contradicts all the assumptions and definitions thats forms the bases of physics rules.   
.
so during the pulse off, all the induction come from the magnet flux going back to the core.     

If you look at the MEG patent you get a better arrangement for the core and magnet than my proposed experiment…
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 15:44:47 pm
The best power supply for testing it is a variable dc source and a variable frequency source.. having a 2 channel oscilloscope… of course an Amp meter could be nice too.

First apply dc and frequency and watch the signals. If the secondary reverts the polarity before the pulse terminates than the frequency must be increased or the dc must be reduced since its crossing the ZERO magnetic point.



Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 16:02:18 pm
when a magnetic field decreases a magn. field is generated in the coil in the same direction as the decreasing field..  right? what am I missing here?

maybe what you say happens in the off state supposing you let sufficient time between pulses?.. but the energy is the same
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 16:17:57 pm
Yes.

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13200;image)

The induced current according to lenz, creates a magnetic field that oppose the movement of the magnet. A reducing field is equivalent to a magnet getting away from the coil, if a north gets away from the coil the coil generates a south pole to attract the magnet. So yes is in the same direction if the field is reducing.

I don't know what you are missing i guess you understood. 

Lets just resume it here

Pulse on!
Positive into the primary dot, the primary generates a counter field relative to the magnet in order to reduce the field only down to zero in respect to time.
The secondary contrary to physics laws of induction have a negative induced in the dot so the direction of the current creates magnetic field similar to the primary thereto also opposing the magnet field helping to reduce it to zero.
 
Pulse off!
The field now increases.
Positive out of the primary and secondary dots, here the secondary or primary if also loaded, generates a field that oppose the magnet field up to the point it reaches the maximum field stoping changing flux mean no more induction.. 


If its everything correct… i'm not perfect i can miss something… only tests can show if i'm correct or not.

i'm not sure about the primary polarity during pulse of but i'm going to rethink that some more ten times.. =-)
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 16:29:44 pm
for the sake of simplicity is this how your setup looks like?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 16:53:46 pm
Its very simple but still complicated analysis since is not equal to everything learned in university.

I'm thinking about the pulse off time is not exactly as a magnet getting closer…
 
Its also very strange from the point of vieu from self induction...
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 17:14:43 pm
Here is how it should go

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13202;image)
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 17:35:54 pm
still I get different field directions invert all directions except for the last arrow.. :P
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 17:37:52 pm
Is hard to see but try thinking in terms of induction and flux changing… Start from the pulse on, because there you known the flux is reducing… 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 17:39:49 pm
won't L2 try to maintain the magnet's magnetic field ? this is like putting an air core tranformer aligned to a homogeneous magnetic field.. is there something I'm missing?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 18:30:57 pm
When?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 18:33:12 pm
From my analysis the secondary aways mimic the primary magnetic field during pulse on except if the field cross the zero point.

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 19:20:26 pm
 the core field is decreasing so the secondary coil will create a field to keep the field from decreasing .... opposite to the primary coil's field.... I'm I wrong?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 19:49:13 pm
during pulse on?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 20:10:57 pm
yes ... during pulse on the field is decreasing isnt it?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 22:35:11 pm
Yes the field is decreasing. But do you agree that if it were a normal transformer the field would be increasing because of the primary? So in the case of a transformer the positive into the dot  and positive out of the secondary  dot. 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2014, 22:43:02 pm
yes.. but put a coil inside a magnetic field and reduce the field strength , the coil will create a magnetic field to resist this change in field strength.. in the direction of the field..
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2014, 06:36:05 am
You can only destroy a field with a countering field, it seems to me that you are trying to use lenz law to analyse it.. and i'm saying that its not completely valid from this point of view. You should try to only think about induction and departure from a referential where you know what os going on..

If you get a magnet away it indeed create a field in the same direction in order to cause attraction and react to the movement. But in this case i don't know... theres no mechanic movement but there is flux changing somehow and the sign of the change that should matters its my best guess.

 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2014, 07:15:14 am
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13202;image)

Lets ignore this magnet and the directions of the fields for now.

And let the positive go to the primary dot so during pulse on. according to the right hand rule the magnetic field i correctly represented by the yellow arrow. correct?
 At the secondary dot than there should be a positive but of course going out of the dot and that makes its magnetic field obviously contrary to the primary field if its connected to a load. That happen because the field in the primary is increasing positive change of flux.

Now imagine you have switch off  the current and there is a flyback diode connected to the primary. In the primary the current still wants to flow in the same direction but to do that it must reverse the voltage in the primary.

In coils the current is not allowed to change if you try to change it creates a back emf that restricts the amps as function of the inductance and time.

At the secondary the voltage also reverses because now the flux is changing negatively… So during pulse off in a transformer being pulsed the secondary will also have a negative in the dot so as the primary. So during pulse off their currents should be in the same direction such as their magnetic field. The time the magnetic field is going to take to arrive at zero depends on the resistance of the secondary the rate of dissipation thereof. Ohh if the diode is connected to the primary as flyback one what happens is the same as the current flow the magnetic field keeps going strong.

If you think about ac square wave is also possible to understand that if a counter voltage is applied where i consider pulse off what happens is that the primary flyback voltage kind of initially impede the flow of amps since is a BEMF.

But lets think about the secondary magnetic field. During pulse on it has a contrary field to the primary magnetic field. But during the pulse off ( the fall of the magnetic field ) the current reverses and so it creates a north pole that wants to keep the magnetic field if the load allows the current to flow.

So i guess you are correct in a transformer the secondary creates a field during the fall of the magnetic field that opposes the reduction of the field. 


I'm thinking that you are right because i'm thinking that i'm reducing the field but maybe its increasing from a negative value to zero and not decreasing and this could make me to confuse about the direction of the induction…. thats what you mean?

Too bad If you are correct =( and probably you are!

Its the end of the magic new years eve.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2014, 11:21:38 am
can you exploit the magnetic viscoscity of ferromagnetic materials?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2014, 16:54:33 pm
Thanks again geon for thinking together and find this result which will save me time.

What you mean by exploit the magnetic viscosity?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2014, 17:02:02 pm
I can be wrong as well , it's best to see for yourself you know what I mean?

remember some time ago the capacitor - coil mechanism you mentioned that changes the magnetic permeability with respect to dielectric permeability, maybe there's a way to extract some energy out of this thing because it takes some time for atoms to align to different fields.. and this is an open circuit..
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2014, 21:43:54 pm
Im just learning how the distributed capacitance of the secondary windings discharge and induce a voltage back into the primary so im a looong way from seeing anything else :/
Title: Re: Special announce
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2014, 01:30:17 am
I guess i discovered a way to extract energy from space time using a magnet and a transformer

The first time i saw something strange regarding adding magnets to coils is that when i had my resonant tank with the magnet simply glued to the coil the voltage was higher. I didn't had the knowledge to understand why it happened… 

Basically the way we use transformers is rather stupid.

The primary sets a positive changing magnetic field that induce in the secondary a current in the opposite direction than the current in the primary. Obviously than the magnetic field in it will cancel the primary magnetic field. Thats the basics of Lenz law, when a magnet approximates to a shorted coil the induced current in the coil will create a magnetic field that opposes or create a contrary force to the movement of the magnet.

This new year i thought a way to induce a current in the secondary in the same direction as the current going into the primary, by a negative changing magnetic field that  results in the current induced on the secondary reinforcing the primary magnetic field instead of killing it which should further induce greater emf in the secondary. So it wont create that counter magnetic field that makes transformers to consume high amps when loaded. 

Its the situation of a magnet dropping into a coil but instead of being repel by the lenz reaction force, the induced current creates a magnetic field ever increasing that only causes more attraction and induction and so on. 

Its all theory but i guess its correct since i used only physics laws to develop it.


Happy new year
 

You going to use some kind of mobius strip coil?

I like the idea of an ever increasing, complementary field on the secondary.  If the field is non linear, with the right phase composition, current might be pumped from point A to point B on the shorted secondary.  (Shape resonance might be required.)  Or the secondary might be semi shorted, with a diode or an AV diode plug, or even an asymmetric plasma.  Can you make the non linear effect with a circuit, without having to drop a magnet through the coil?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2014, 18:30:35 pm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Möbius_strip (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Möbius_strip)   thats very cool…

I was thinking about how wrong i was in my assumptions and decided to look deeper into the problem.

Lets suppose you get a coil and a magnet free to move. And you apply a north opposing field to make the magnet move away from the coil.

In my analysis what happens is that the magnet going away induces a south in the primary and that induces a counter electromotive force that limits the current going into the coil. Now lets analyze if there were a secondary there. The positive into the dot of the primary makes the dot north pole as makes also the dot of the secondary positive but a current flow into the secondary induces a counter magnetic field that reduces the force that makes the magnet go away. .

The back Emf induced by the motion of the magnet is in same direction of the induced positive by transformer action...



I have thought about the thane bitoroid transformer, and imagined how it suppose to operate.

Basically the primary induce a voltage in the secondary but the back magnetic field generated into the coil by the current flowing into the load has another path to go, this path goes to another secondary and sums with the primary field to induce in this third secondary a voltage. but his design if both secondary are loaded their field seems to counter each other.

I started than to think about what if we had a kind of diode for magnetic fields. I though, and maybe a magnet or electromagnet could be handy on that.

so i created two alternative paths for the magnetic field reaction from the secondary to make it always reforce the primary field in both secondaries. each reforming one another…

who knows...
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2014, 18:31:31 pm
  thats very cool…

I was thinking about how wrong i was in my assumptions and decided to look deeper into the problem.

Lets suppose you get a coil and a magnet free to move. And you apply a north opposing field to make the magnet move away from the coil.

In my analysis what happens is that the magnet going away induces a south in the primary and that induces a counter electromotive force that limits the current going into the coil. Now lets analyze if there were a secondary there. The positive into the dot of the primary makes the dot north pole as makes also the dot of the secondary positive but a current flow into the secondary induces a counter magnetic field that reduces the force that makes the magnet go away. .

The back Emf induced by the motion of the magnet is in same direction of the induced positive by transformer action...



I have thought about the thane bitoroid transformer, and imagined how it suppose to operate.

Basically the primary induce a voltage in the secondary but the back magnetic field generated into the coil by the current flowing into the load has another path to go, this path goes to another secondary and sums with the primary field to induce in this third secondary a voltage. but his design if both secondary are loaded their field seems to counter each other.

I started than to think about what if we had a kind of diode for magnetic fields. I though, and maybe a magnet or electromagnet could be handy on that.

so i created two alternative paths for the magnetic field reaction from the secondary to make it always reforce the primary field in both secondaries. each reforming one another…

who knows...
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2014, 20:40:58 pm
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13209;image)

This is the configuration i thought using the magnets as field "diodes" So the reaction of one secondary can go to the other and the reaction of the other can go to the first…

Mainly is the same as thane bi toroid idea except it has two polarized paths..

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13211;image)
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2014, 21:58:37 pm

This is the configuration i thought using the magnets as field "diodes" So the reaction of one secondary can go to the other and the reaction of the other can go to the first…

Mainly is the same as thane bi toroid idea except it has two polarized paths..


That's a nice looking core you have there.  Should allow for some experimental variations.  Let us know if you get any scope shots.  The field "diodes" concept seems workable, and I think some others have shown the effect.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2014, 19:09:49 pm
Those cores are the biggest i could get…

I'm trying also this another idea.. check the difference between the systems..

 One is electrically coupled only

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13217;image)

the other is electromagnetically coupled…

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13219;image)


Notice that the Feed back form a resonant circuit!
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2014, 21:07:03 pm
any updates?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2014, 23:53:30 pm
lot of working little time for testing… but i'm keeping thinking and drawing 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2014, 07:12:27 am
Interesting idea of using magnets as field diodes.. from my studies a core when the H field energy is removed it does not reverse in magnetic field on the collapse of magnetic field.. The magnetic field collapses to the remnant flux level of the particular  core.

But then also you can see a secondary will ring positive and negative voltage swings in a open circuit condition giving the appearance of alternating magnetic field.. this may be due to the fact that it is literally micro or nano current shifts in a open circuit wire which creates the voltage swing.. and may have little effect or need of field reversal to happen..

Placing magnets in the transformer loop will create a sort of programmed remnant flux level.. which can cause the core to be much closer to its saturation point allowing limited power input to be possible..
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 10, 2014, 14:00:57 pm
i compared the magnetic configuration proposed by thane heinz and willian barbat and they are the same..

But barbat uses the terms the primary must be coupled more to the shorted superconductor coil tnan to teh secondary...


The magnet brings the core almost to its saturation if its too close. I'm using plastic separators to try getting around this side effect. not tested yet but the idea seems that one path would have very low reluctance to the flux from both secondaries.


I'm more focused on the other design with the toroidal cores... and feedback circuit...

I'm doing it with the CC cores...   
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2014, 00:58:23 am
http://www.free-energy-info.tuks.nl/Chapt3.html
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2014, 05:09:24 am
The idea i'm playing with has to do with thane heinz and wilian Barbat

I have 4 CC cores ,, 3 at one side having on them the secondary and feedback coil,

and the other has the primary, the cores are than linked by a shorted turn of very thick wire…

the secondary has 220 turns, the primary is going to have 100 or 200 turns at least

the feed back coil maybe have 20 turns going into the continuation of the primary having around 7 turns…
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2014, 00:50:26 am
100watt source producing 30k watts? how's this possible? efficiency is 300% not 98%
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2014, 03:48:48 am
100watt source producing 30k watts? how's this possible? efficiency is 300% not 98%

Yea... ima delete it outta Sebs thread,after rereading it again I just realized its something totally off topic.... his electron generator is smaller than a dime.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2014, 09:55:50 am
interesting hydrogen generator .. do you have info on the other proccess he uses with PV panels? eRET
https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/pdfs/US20040265137.pdf
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2014, 12:25:43 pm
100watt source producing 30k watts? how's this possible? efficiency is 300% not 98%

actually 30 000 %
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2014, 16:56:46 pm
yes 30000% not 300% in the presentation he writes 98%... it looks like scam but the hydrogen generator makes some sense, I've heard a professor that visited meyer saying he used resonance type of mechanism to make hydrogen like puharich.. read the patent.. and if you make bong lengths longer with no energy input there's less energy needed to break them plus he uses a semipermeable conductive  membrane to seperate hydrogen from  oxygen
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 12, 2014, 18:52:54 pm
ask him
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2014, 03:19:34 am
I did the first tests….

result two 1200 v 30 a transistors burned…

lot of questions….


The induced voltage is tremendously high in the secondary…

the primary has 360 turns and the secondary 220 turns the voltage in the secondary goes up to beyond than 500v applying less than 10v to the primary… but no power if loaded…

more to come…
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2014, 09:27:13 am
which setup did you try? how much current in the primary?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2014, 14:06:48 pm
$ 1 5.0000000000000004E-8 26.59566520631553 41 5.0 43
v 144 192 144 128 0 0 40.0 100.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
d 304 128 368 128 1 0.805904783
T 368 128 448 208 0 0.5 0.01 0.8523545670853866 -41.24698620367449 0.999
T 448 128 544 208 0 9.999999999999999E-5 100.0 41.24698620367449 -0.19314683362971596 0.999
d 304 208 304 128 1 0.805904783
d 304 288 304 208 1 0.805904783
c 368 208 304 208 0 3.0000000000000004E-8 -97.73968505858734
c 224 128 224 208 0 0.01 99.99461461908601
g 224 208 224 240 0
w 144 128 224 128 0
w 224 128 304 128 0
g 144 224 144 240 0
w 368 208 368 256 0
l 304 288 304 336 0 0.001 8.673617379884035E-18
g 304 336 304 368 0
w 368 256 432 256 0
w 432 256 432 304 0
f 384 320 432 320 0 1.5
g 432 368 432 400 0
w 432 336 432 368 0
w 432 368 464 368 0
w 464 368 496 368 0
w 496 368 544 368 0
d 464 368 464 256 1 0.805904783
r 496 368 496 320 0 1000.0
z 544 368 544 256 1 0.805904783 560.0
c 496 320 496 256 0 1.0E-8 -3.7428177872588817
w 432 256 464 256 0
w 464 256 496 256 0
w 496 256 544 256 0
v 384 368 384 320 0 1 10000.0 15.0 15.0 0.0 0.5
g 384 368 384 400 0
r 544 128 544 208 0 500.0
r 144 192 144 224 0 0.01
o 32 64 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 0 64 1 291 320.0 9.765625E-5 1 -1


this is the circuit i used…

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13233;image)

the connections are exactly like the drawing of the 2 toroids… except the feedback winding in the primary core is only serving as a voltage limiting coil

The strange thing is the voltage at the secondary… too high
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2014, 17:55:42 pm
this?

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13219;image)
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2014, 21:43:49 pm
Yes but on the right there are three cores together i ill do a picture…

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2014, 22:28:29 pm
YAWN
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2014, 03:53:46 am
today i bought more 8 transistors 1199v 30A
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2014, 08:01:21 am
where do you put the 3 cores?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2014, 16:55:46 pm
the drawing is an up view the toroid at the right side has 3 toroids one over the other …
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2014, 18:58:29 pm
isnt it possible for electrons from ground to go to a more positive potential?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2014, 19:07:35 pm
what do you mean with that?

To exist a positive potential mean that the ground already has an excess
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 14, 2014, 19:30:01 pm
the ground is supposed to have 0 potential so the electrons from ground should go to a more positive potential right? http://jnaudin.free.fr/kapagen/ this uses ground potential .. damn where's the mistake?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 15, 2014, 04:00:21 am
well i don't know.

I'm trying this idea just because it made sense to me.

the idea is that as the secondary of the first transformer (the shorted turn) induces a voltage at the other transformer and this helps induce again in the primary ...
Title: The epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 15, 2014, 04:03:55 am
I was thinking about the epg

If you have a coil around a tube and energizes it, it induces a current in the tube to create a magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field of the coil… my point is inside the tube the polarity is reversed so any magnetic force it cause to a permanent magnet inside the tube is contrary to the induction….

so i'm considering the field inside the tube is contrary to the field outside it.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 15, 2014, 08:29:23 am
why is there more voltage than normal in your secondary??
Title: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 15, 2014, 09:47:57 am
This is the same principle applied to epg analysis

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13237;image)
In my point of view the primary induces a current in the tube that create magnetic field in the other direction… so the magnet should be accelerated in a direction that reduce the field inside the tube and this direction is the direction that could induce further current in the tube that create further acceleration…

In the idea of the transformer is the same but instead of give the magnet the ability to move is uses the flux of the shorted turn to generate voltage into a magnetic circuit


My question is, is that correct?

The field inside the tube is in the opposite direction? There can be a net south pole?

The magnetic field inside of a tube carrying dc current is 0. but the current should be in another direction …
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 15, 2014, 14:08:52 pm
what about a coil inside a copper tube? let the tube be longer than the coil.. the tube acts as a short circuited turn … If you now add a coil outside the tube in which direction will be the current?

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13239;image)
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 15, 2014, 17:16:00 pm
I made new tests today

Now the configuration is 120 turns on the primary

220 turns secondary

22 turns non dissipative snubber coil

22 turns feed back input coil

I added a 1kohm resistor as a load

The resistor get very hot. the voltage peaks at the resistor seem to be 50v

I think that now is important to get impedance matching to be able to extract energy from the coil…

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2014, 15:02:48 pm
this is the wave form of the load

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13241;image)

The voltage input is 45 volts

current less than 2 amps is my guess since the fuse didn't blew up however the snubber winding sends the energy back before the fuse so probably is consuming less amps i don't have a good a meter tehre lot of induction and my clamp \meter don't work properly ./

The only component that gets hot is the primary and a resistor in the snubber circuit that can be plucked off

This makes this non dissipative snubber winding circuit very satisfactory...

I'm not being able to determine if its overunity or not but i'm going to be able to determine the action of the feedback
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2014, 19:14:01 pm
The one thing i see that makes it hard to quantify power consumption and generation is the complex wave forms.. like in your picture.. you show a spike of 300v that decays to 200v and so on...
its not so simple to calculate the total watt seconds from a wave like that..
Need some good ole calculus!
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2014, 20:19:23 pm
i agree is not a very nice waveform to calculate

but i guess we can say that around 25w was constantly dissipated from the resistor from this graphs

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2014, 20:27:58 pm
not sure how your getting 25 watts.. sounds like a very crude guesstimate
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2014, 20:48:22 pm
yes is an approximation

I hopping to get a wattmetter
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 17, 2014, 20:51:12 pm
why not estimate heating power? if  the water is insulated and little volume it's a close approximation

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 18, 2014, 10:43:58 am
good idea.. I'm planing to buy a current probe for my oscilloscope to try measuring it properly... and maybe a good multimeter... i was also considering get a digital oscilloscope but i have no money for this now. Anyway i think the knowledge coming out of this experiments is priceless. 

Now i have understood more profoundly how the interaction of electric and magnetic field. 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 19, 2014, 17:52:55 pm
New tests today

today i was pushing the system harder when i hear a noise like of something popping off and immediately the load wave form changed completely to another waveform and the voltage seems to have increased somehow... somehow now i can put the all 150v the variac has to apply ... and so i decided to change the load back to that 100w lamp  and it lit up \...

certainly some component burned up and allowed this to happen, now i get to find which diode blew...

i'm amazed with that. now i also have to measure how much power in and out anyway ... but is the greatest load i had working..!! the secondary is being connected to the feedback winding forming a bucking voltage so the applied voltage is lower.. but in turn forms the feedback circuit that sends a positive pulse to the other core so they can like talk together.. int his amplifier arrangement.

This feedback works like this in my imagination...

The primary induces say 100v into 100 turns so it induces 1v per turn

now if you add a feedback winding that apply another 100v to 10turns than the amount of induction comes to 11v per turn

the feedback occurs when this 11v per turn now induces instead of 100v  at the secondary  but 1100v to the secondary coil which is sending the feed back to the feedback coil and this if you consider infinitesimal amount of time can happen at the speed of light many many many times since this cycle starts till a point.     

Maybe is simpler than we ever thought was possible.

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 19, 2014, 19:32:56 pm
which diode blew? can you show how you make the connections for the coils?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 19, 2014, 23:15:02 pm
I'm not sure what happen exacty… i pushed the system further and the fuse and transistor died again...… the coils are connected exactly like the drawing of the two toroids… but but theres no feedback output coil on the second core the secondary is connected to the load directly thru the feedback coil in the 1 core… so the voltage of the secondary gets subtracted from the induced voltage (induced by the primary0 in the feedback coil.. buck


theres also a non dissipative snubber coil wound over the primary…. that sends the kick back pulse to the source and discharge the non dissipative snubber capacitor inducing in the primary and the rest of the circuit a high voltage for an instant. that probably burned the diode that is in series with the primary to allow the pulse collapse… if the snubber winding discharge into the primary it the primary has to send back to the source (huge capacitor) part of the energy… 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 00:29:47 am
heres the updated
 diagram…

(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13245;image)

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 08:27:35 am
i just had an idea…

what about using a capacitor changing electric field to generate energy.

If a manner to extract energy from the capacitor while its charging making the capacitance seems bigger during charging because of that action than maybe energy could be generated.

I imagined the follow

I toroidal core is placed in the middle of 2 capacitor plates having the same format of the core separated by a dielectric. than a coil is wound in the toroid…

If the coil is connected to a load the capacitor is not going to be so free to change the electric field for an applied charge somehow….

another construction could be a toroidal CC core having a rolled capacitor… if the direction of the coil is correct there should be a voltage induce in a secondary at the same core…

The capacitor acts as a capacitot but also as a coil so the changing electric field of the capacitor generates a magnetic field that helps the circuit… if the direction is not correct it should make it worse instead of helping….

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 12:26:37 pm
displacement current is too small to make any difference, half the energy of the cap is always wasted to radiation and heat during charging
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 13:39:47 pm
displacement current is too small to make any difference, half the energy of the cap is always wasted to radiation and heat during charging

Thats not exactly true… when you have an inductor connected between 2 capacitors one charged and the other not, the energy lost on the transfer between both is basically the resistance loss in the coil and leakage in the capacitor… thats because the coil don't allow for high current at the start and it also creates a kind of inertia that allows the charge to reverse the voltage f the capacitor.

If you connect a charged capacitor to another equal capacitor half the energy disappear… because when the voltage get to the half the other capacity don't receive charge anymore and if it receive it ant to immediately give it back to the other capacitor… thats why associating caps and coils is so damn important…

The displacement current would be that small If the voltage in the capacitor is something like 100kv  and the frequency maybe 1MHz and the current fling maybe 100 amps?

My guess is the more you push those parameters the greater is going to be the displacement current… the beauty is that from my point of view this is a manner to use the magnetic field induction caused by of a capacitor to change its own value of capacitance durig operation… making it a parametric generating device…

Can you imagine a core having a layer of strontium titanate?

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 18:55:24 pm
normally the capacitor gets charged from the battery losing half the energy to heat first so there's half the energy in the coil as well... energy doesnt dissapear it gets turned to heat.. when a cap is charged half the energy is lost to heat.. how can you bypass that?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 19:58:31 pm
if you were correct it would be impossible for a resonant circuit to work…
if you connect to a battery a capacitor a diode and a coil in series the capacitor get charged to twice the battery voltage… thats because initially the capacitor can't change voltage instantly and the coil can so it start a current flow and when the capacitor reach the battery voltage the current keeps the same direction in the coil but the voltage reverts summing with the battery voltage to charge the capacitor to twice battery voltage…


Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 21:08:23 pm
you are correct the voltage will double like this but if you connect the capacitor first it will loose half the energy
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 20, 2014, 21:41:32 pm
you are correct the voltage will double like this but if you connect the capacitor first it will loose half the energy

If you connect one charged capacitor to a uncharged one the instant current is very very high since theres negative reactance, is like having less than zero resistance to current flow thereto a unrestricted amount of current flow but not all the energy is lost as heat, some indeed seems to disappear since the electric field block one another to keep the voltage equal between the capacitors…
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2014, 01:23:13 am
http://www.rexresearch.com/barbosa/barbosa.htm

how can you charge a conductive body with a battery?? I don't know if its possible... how can you eliminate the displacement current?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2014, 04:17:37 am
http://www.rexresearch.com/barbosa/barbosa.htm

how can you charge a conductive body with a battery?? I don't know if its possible... how can you eliminate the displacement current?


when you charge a body you charge it relative to something... and what is charged is the capacitance between this body and its referential. 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2014, 10:01:05 am
how can you charge two objects away from each other with a battery ? every object has some capacitance in respect to infinity.. its not what I ask.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2014, 11:55:16 am
how can you charge two objects away from each other with a battery ? every object has some capacitance in respect to infinity.. its not what I ask.

You connect the positive to one and the negative to the other. better if you approximate them to increase the capacitance.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 21, 2014, 18:59:57 pm
I don't mean to leave the battery connected how can you permanently charge them when they are fart apart from each other using a battery?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2014, 00:34:13 am
what about a capacitor inside a capacitor?  ::) ]
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2014, 17:58:36 pm
charge a paraller plate capacitor C1 , form another capacitor C2 enclosing C1, charge C2 no opposition exists, C1 voltage is increases ,C1  energy is higher where did the energy come from? C2 capacitance doesnt change if C1 is charged or discharged from what I've checked but I can be wrong.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2014, 12:33:20 pm
charge a paraller plate capacitor C1 , form another capacitor C2 enclosing C1, charge C2 no opposition exists, C1 voltage is increases ,C1  energy is higher where did the energy come from? C2 capacitance doesnt change if C1 is charged or discharged from what I've checked but I can be wrong.

You forgets that if c1 is in the middle of C2 you need to add the c1 voltage  + over voltage to e able to charge c2

make a drawing and think about

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2014, 13:59:19 pm
but the electric field outside (an ideal) capacitor is zero what do you mean?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2014, 05:14:13 am
Geon there is a difference of potential there, for example if you charge the first capacitor and than you complete your construction and than you short the c2 what happens?

C1 discharges and charges the c2

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2014, 11:19:04 am
ΔV=-Ed=0 outside any capacitor ideally isn't it correct? so no work is possible by C1 on C2 ... only by C2 on C1.. and I don't understand why should C1 discharge if it's not connected to anything ? I'm not that good of an artist but here is how it should look like, read pm I explain it better.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 27, 2014, 13:31:35 pm
do you agree that to charge the C2  cap you need its electric field to cross the region with electric fields C1?

The electric field is zero outside a capacitor but the potential is not!
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 27, 2014, 16:48:08 pm
well I know what electric potential is and it's zero outside C1 and the two fields add inside, you should ask what happens during charging and this I'm not sure about because you give energy to charge the plates of C2 to reach the Q of C1 and in this period you form two other capacitors that lower the voltage of C1 temporarily , displacement current depends on change in electric flux, if C1 E field decreases then there's an opposite displ. current in C1 because the change is a negative term and the displacement current has the same direction in the two other capacitors let's call them C3 C4 so in total there's displ. current going in the opposite direction of current flow , when Q1=Q2 there's positive displacement current going through all plates (this should be a larger one).. .. does this look logical to you?? \
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 27, 2014, 21:42:28 pm
maybe you could make a drawing i can't understand.

I was thinking about another thing. The same configuration you provided but charge one capacitor in reverse direction to the other.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 28, 2014, 11:02:36 am
I mean charge both capacitors in the same direction first charge C1 second C2
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 28, 2014, 11:16:39 am
I mean charge both capacitors in the same direction first charge C1 second C2

I don't know if you understood.

If you charge one capacitor than you charge the other enclosing capacitor the you are still charging both capacitors.

If you charge one capacitor in one direction and the other in the opposite direction than interesting things happens,

The potential to charge the capacitor is going to enter with no opposition..
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 28, 2014, 12:04:41 pm
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13253;image)Check this out

First C1 gets charged to 100v for example...

Than C3 and C4 receives 100v from C1 plus 100v from coil 2 as coil 2 charges the C2 complex

So the C3 and C4 now have 100v each and C1 some voltage

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2014, 14:24:53 pm
I don't know if it's my dmm but when I charge C1 and C2 in the same direction with the same 1.2V voltage source where Q1>Q2 , C1 voltage is lower but C2 is higher charged to uncharged now the weird thing is the voltage of C1 almost triples when I charge C2 in the opposite direction while C2 is a little lower.. I don't know if it's my measurement ( contact points) but this does not make any sense. when Q2>Q1 C1 voltage reverses no matter what direction C2 is charged.
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2014, 15:14:12 pm
I don't know if it's my dmm but when I charge C1 and C2 in the same direction with the same 1.2V voltage source where Q1>Q2 , C1 voltage is lower but C2 is higher charged to uncharged now the weird thing is the voltage of C1 almost triples when I charge C2 in the opposite direction while C2 is a little lower.. I don't know if it's my measurement ( contact points) but this does not make any sense. now the last thing to try is with Q2>Q1 and see what happens.

if you charge it reversely the C1 voltage sums to the source voltage to charge the C2 reversing the voltage of C1 ...

is exactly what i described....

If you charge C2 ( the enclosing capacitor) first and than charge the c1 ok you are going to add some charge to c1. if do it reversely theres not going to change the voltage...


Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2014, 15:18:48 pm
if Q2>Q1 voltage of C1 always reverses from what I measured because C3 and C4 are formed, I still need to test Q1=Q2..
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2014, 16:12:39 pm
(http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13253;image)Check this out

First C1 gets charged to 100v for example...

Than C3 and C4 receives 100v from C1 plus 100v from coil 2 as coil 2 charges the C2 complex

So the C3 and C4 now have 100v each and C1 some voltage


C1 doesnt have some voltage C1 has the most voltage! ;D
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2014, 06:17:28 am
Yes right. (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=2817.0;attach=13261;image)

I designed this simpler one check it

Basically it only charges the c1 and than c1 and the kickback energy sum to charge c2 reversing also c1 voltage than c2 discharges and is obliged to charge c1
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2014, 16:55:40 pm
The idea that is keeping me thinking is that when the C1 is charged during pulse on for sake of simplicity, the C2 is forced by the bifilar coil and arrange to keep at the same potential. But when polarity reverses the C2 could be extrapolated by 3 capacitors in series being the middle one charged reversely! what this tell me is that if you have negative voltage potential in that middle it sums up with source voltage to charge up C2 completely, but thats not all. A capacitor is a mean for storing charge, but this storage is limited by some factors, like size, dielectric constant, and thickness. The thickness dictates the electric field as direct function of the potential difference.

when you are charging a capacitor what is happening is that you add one electron at a time, and for every electron you add it gains a voltage potential. The sum of all the electrons times the voltage they had to fight to enter the capacitor equals the energy in that give capacitor.

Now lets look at the very instant of the point where C2 plates are at the same potential than c1 plates and the voltage reverses in the coil. What happens is that the coil is going to charge C2 but charging C2 means to discharge C1 too. But the point is that the electrons coming out of the coil are actually attracted to get into that capacitor.. by the electric flux formed..

is necessary to do further mathematical analysis to complete this theory, here is going to be possible chose the parameters knowing the parameters to change to improve the performance.

   

 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 02, 2014, 10:45:41 am
There is always the possibility that I made a mistake during measurements, the only things I used is a battery a dmm and some plates,, it's the charge configuration that is so important I need an electrostatic voltmeter to tell what's really going on.
Title: The force depends on the charge
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2014, 13:21:42 pm
Hello

I had another idea,...

electromagnetic Forces depends on the quantity of charges...

The interaction for example of a charged plate to a neutral plate is that in the neutral plate and the charged plate the charges arrange to the situation of lower energy possible.

I was thinking about what if adding a magnetic field could helped a coil to resonate more. but i ask myself if it helps in one way it don't help in the other way since the magnetic field must reverse during resonance.

But that is not true if diodes are used to make the inductors unipolar ...

The idea is that a coil having dc current should interact more strongly with another primary or resonating coil. because theres charges there moving. creating a magnetic charge to interact....
 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2014, 22:52:45 pm
I just remembered a patent about charging water droplets and passing them through a net to get some kinetic energy from the wind..  I know it has nothing to do with this but it's cool  :P
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2014, 07:02:31 am
 8)
I just remembered a patent about charging water droplets and passing them through a net to get some kinetic energy from the wind..  I know it has nothing to do with this but it's cool  :P

The idea is that a coil having current flowing should receive more action .... since it has a electromagnetic  self field...

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2014, 10:00:49 am
 coils have some capacitance themselves because there's electric field developed between the wires
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2014, 01:14:13 am
\ when a charge is moving inside an ideal conductor there's no gravitational force exerted to the charges but as it exits the conductor force is exerted .... ofcourse they can't just pop out of the conductor they need to spend energy to do that but in theory the electrons have just beat conservation of energy,the force is too small ofcourse... but still ... how is energy conserved?
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2014, 12:35:55 pm
?

I don't know what are you talking about...

My idea is that i can combine a resonant tank with a couple of coils each having its on magnetic field to amplify the energy that is coupled from resonance to the coils but at the same time since the couple of coils are in a bulk fashion relative to one another they don't deplete the energy in the tank.

Imagine a magnet with a north pole approaching a coil... the coil is going to repel the magnet thereto at this coil you get a north pole opposing the magnet north.

If the coil already had a north pole before the movement of the magnet is clear than that its going to increase even further... 

Probably thats the case of a superconducting coil, it has the ability to maintaining the current so its poles can interact in the manner i'm thinking... maybe thats the meaning of amplifying inductive photons barbats talks about. 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2014, 15:08:55 pm
I don't understand what you're talking about either... make a drawing .. the only times you can get emf or simply work is when the magnetic flux is changing.. the starting magnetic field doesnt matter except that the core will get saturated faster..

in my case imagine an ideal conductor extending up some kms and electrons travelling up without gravity affecting them...whey they are free particles they should drop to earth... but read here: http://www.electrogravityphysics.com/assets/docs/freefall.pdf
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2014, 23:38:26 pm
Let me try to make it clear...

The idea is that having a permanent magnetic field generated by a dc current in a couple of output coils in such a manner that the voltage induced in the coils is going to completely cancel such as bifilar same length... but they are geometrically arranged like this the central coil is the resonating coil (air core) at the sides the field coils both point north agains each other.

In my point of view the induced voltage at the coils because of the flux switching...

My idea is to use exactly the barbat system feedback but using direct current at the coils to some how amplify the reception of the magnetic field. 


 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2014, 23:54:01 pm
I was studying more about induction and i'm going to put my thoughts here.

When you have two coils one facing each other for example and you have one of them short circuited with it self and you energize the other the shorted coil is going to generate a voltage that is going to make current flow in such a manner that its going to create a magnetic field that opposes the magnetic field generated by the energized coil.

Is the same situation of a magnet approaching a shorted coil... 

Now when the current is maximum at the energized coil and it stop being energized, provided its allowed to let the current keep flowing its going to keep flowing in the same direction so the magnetic field don't flip here.. it just start to fall... at this point the voltage at the shorted coil and the energized coil reverses in the "primary" because it wants to keep flowing in the same direction but in the "secondary" it reverses because now the magnetic field is falling.

Is the same situation of a magnet getting far from the coil...

That being said we know thats how transformers work one coil generate a magnetic field the other generate a counter magnetic field as current flows to a load...

I'm saying wow lets make the transformer in such a manner that the secondary coils being energized by the dc current generate their own magnetic field and can be placed in such a manner that connected in series the current flowing thru them "cancel partially"  each other.. because they are geometrically separated by the resonating coil.

one time the resonating coil is going to repel said 1 secondary coil and at the same time attract the 2 secondary coil... so the fields some times repel and some times attract...

The power increase must come from the fact that the primary is interacting more strongly with the polarized secondary amplifying the output.

I'm going to construct it now its like a donald l smith device or tariel kapanandaze barbat and others....

Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2014, 23:59:17 pm
Think of this you have a primary and a secondary...

the primary is applied a pulse... the secondary has connected to it a choke and a dc source..

(air core)

the primary lets say sends a north to the secondary and the secondary is already polarized with north agains the primary north.

The primary wants to induce a voltage that is going to increase the north already in the coil like increasing the repelling force intentionally, because supposedly its going to make the induced voltage or current output in this coil to be greater...

It becomes very obvious to me that something is strange about the polarity of the coils stanley meyer used,, maybe he was exploring this effect.. .   
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2014, 00:14:37 am
Lets think about the possible interactions, The constant magnetic field in the can reacts as attraction or repulsion

if attraction  the receiving coil has a south pole (dc current) and the transmitter coil sends a north pole the receiving coil should generate a north pole to fight the north pole from the primary but its magnetic field only reverses if the current becomes greater than the dc current 

So in fact it can't  generate the north pole to react because its already south.

Now let the magnetic field fall... the induced voltage is going to be in such way to keep the magnetic field running as possible...

here i get confused and don't know is going to happen
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2014, 08:55:07 am
in the middle there can be a positive emf when L1 B1 is increasing and L2 B2 is decreasing.. I mentioned that before...

I can't see how this is possible.. with a transformer..
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 08, 2014, 23:35:00 pm
an easy way to figure out the emf produced is to assign a + and a - to opposite magnetic fields and multiply by + if it's increasing and - if it's decreasing ..
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2014, 23:34:23 pm
Probably hard to see that on a transformer bur homopolar design should work...

Thanks for the suggestion how exactly i can use this technic... could you give me an example?

I made my test prototype and i'm almost ready for trying... i'm thinking just some more about the process...


I was thinking also how should it behave on motors or generators... because thats another type of changing magnetic field other than transformers...




 
Title: Re: The Dc resonant transformer
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2014, 09:40:40 am
assign a sign to a field direction and multiply the signs to see the emf direction