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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on August 23, 2012, 00:18:54 am

Title: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 23, 2012, 00:18:54 am
I concluded that the pulse is collapsing and thats why i'm burning so many switches...

So what stan told me about this point is.. simply wrap more coils proportionally...

I'm making a new bobbin with separate cavities for the bobins, made of resin and fiber fabric or glass fiber... now.

Hope tomorrow i can start winding it...
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 23, 2012, 18:58:17 pm
The big deal with this transformer is that it works in a kind of two modes one is the transformer mode and the second is the kick back mode but the energy is not consumed during the kickback at the secondary system as amps are restricted(diode makes of it an open circuit) ... So it goes back and sums the primary voltage with the source to kill the mosfets...

As i was burning my 600v igbts, it means that i'm reaching 600 at the primary or more... while i'm inputing max 50 volts, this tells me that, excess of 12 times more voltage was developed... other than the transformer turns relation..

I mean

My primary had 33 turns was pulsed with 50 and got back more than 600

The chokes had 100 turns it was receiving 150volts and during collapse more than 1800v

So I will reduce the primary turns number, an increase the chokes size... and also the secondary...

If my switch could handle more volts the collapsing voltage could be much greater as it was being limited by dissipating the power at the snubber and resistor in parallel with the primary,,,
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2012, 09:58:29 am
In-Line Circuit Components
Lengthening Inductor (L11L2) lengths applies an even higher Voltage Potential (66/67) across Resonant Capacitor (140 -170) (ER) since Inductance Reactance "Stores" Energy and, is expressed by
(Eq 19)

Inductance Reactance directly determines "Stored" Energy (Wa) Which is controlled by input Voltage Potential attenuated or varied by way of Voltage Amplitude (Vo xxx Va xxx V b - Vf xxx Vg xxx Vn) of Figure (7-13) and/or Gated Pulse-Frequency (49a xxx 49n - T3 - 49a xxx 49n), or both.


Inductance Reactance performs several functions simultaneously or to given stimuli: increases applied voltage amplitude (Vo - Vn), doubles input frequency (64a * 64b) when 50% Duty Cycle Pulse (Tl = T2) is inputted,

 effectuates "Step Charging Effect" (680) of Figure (7-7) when Pulse off-time (T2) is less than Pulse on-time (Tl) ...

 determining voltage swing from highest voltage level (Vn) to volts switch-off point (Vff), and establishing Impedance (FL) which minimizes heat loss of electrical input power (49) by impairing electron movement.

Inductor (Ll) acts and performs in like manner to Inductor (L2) since both Inductor (L1/L2) are physically the same size and shape.

Thermal Explosive Energy-Yield (gtnt)(16a xxx 16n) instantly produced from water (85) is determined by Voltage Amplitude ( xxx Vn), Duty Cycle of Pulse Train (T1 - T2a xxx T1 – T2n), Gated Pulse-Frequency of applied Voltage Potential (49a xxxx 49n - T3 - 49a xxx 49n), Inductor (LIIL2) length, Secondary Pickup Coil (523) Length (FL3a xxx FL3n), dielectric gap-spacing (Cp), or any combination thereof.


Multi-layer Coil
Inductance of a multilayer coil of rectangular cross section can be computed by below formula when optimizing maximum distributed capacitance (Cda xxx Coo) and distributed inductance (Dla xxx DIn) of Figure (7-3) to intensify Inductance Field Strength (FLa xxx Fln) to function as a voltage multiplier in switch-off conditions (612a xxx 612n), as illustrated in (710) of ~. Figure (7-10) as to VIC Coil Assembly (580) of Figure (6-1) and, is expressed:
(Eq 20)

How a voltage multiplier work? Doesn't it charge in parallel and discharge in series?

Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2012, 10:11:18 am
electrical power (P) is an linear relationship between two variables, voltage (E) and amps (I).

Amp restriction beyond "resonant action" occurs when unipolar magnetic field coupling (71) of Figure (3-23) is allowed to simultaneously drop (pulsating magnetic field) across both resonant charging chokes (56/62) during pulsing operations since electron mass is a electromagnetic entity which is subject to inductor fields (56/62) produced by pulsating magnetic field (71a xxx 71n) of Figure (3-23). Amp leakage (electron coupling to water) to water bath (68) of Figure (3-24) is further prevented by encapsulating resonant cavity (57) in delrin material (72) of Figure (3-25) which is an electrical insulator to high voltage. Delrin material (72) insulator value remains intact since insulation material (72) is resilient to water absorption.
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2012, 12:51:30 pm
All nice texts Seb!

Are we chatting one on one?
This forum has lots of members but a few post here and never show themselves! Too bad!!!


My question is what you are trying to build, I can not follow exactly  ::)

As you know there are different devices Stan build: 8XXA, all copper VIC, injector VIC etc.


I noticed the main focus on other forums is on the Injector VIC now. The injectors are more difficult to build DIY and let alone see how they preform... 

My focus is on the Resonance all copper VIC transformer on a UU-core and the 3 inch WFC.

To bad there are not more builders posting their findings here! There are 3D printed bobbins for sale ready for coil winding if you look at the right places!!!

You have to start building this device and see for yourself and with more experimenters trying to figure this out!!!


Problem I have when I incorporate the WFC into the VIC circuit. The WFC is still a dead-short leaky capacitor.
I have step-charge effect at the choke coils and Stan described this effect seen at both the exciter plates.

It's giving me a big headache (probably for a very long time), I don't see this when I connect the WFC only a AC shape signal. The 180 degrees are lost, seen when the WFC is not connected.

I can conclude the VIC I now have, has not a good signal coupling with the WFC.

I don't know where to look a this moment. Do I have the right core, are my voltages high enough to start the EPP.



So more research and help is needed...

Regards!
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2012, 16:12:48 pm
How many turns you got?

Did you wired the way I described?

Keep it simple stupid don't make it complicated.

Is what i'm trying to do now.

Forget it is a short circuit for a moment... what is needed, to apply high electric fields restricting the amps.

In that short text, stan clearly states that for achieving step charging effect the pulse width must be greater than 50%

Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2012, 22:58:34 pm
How many turns you got?

Did you wired the way I described?

Keep it simple stupid don't make it complicated.

Is what i'm trying to do now.

Forget it is a short circuit for a moment... what is needed, to apply high electric fields restricting the amps.

In that short text, stan clearly states that for achieving step charging effect the pulse width must be greater than 50%

I use the VIC configuration for the copper type mentioned above.

My primary has 600 wnd and 30AWG, the secondary and chokes have all 3000 wnd also 30AWG.
All coils wound same clockwise direction.

In that short text, stan clearly states that for achieving step charging effect the pulse width must be greater than 50%

I only pulse the circuit with 50%, lets see what happens when I change this with open-circuit...

Regards
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2012, 05:16:47 am
@ WEBMUG

Does using my choke core not allow HV to be read directly across any source of Fuel cell containing tap water?? Maybe being 2 close Plates or an unlimited amount of tubes in parallel?

Have you not managed this with my core, Not that the Primary or secondary plays no part in this voltage read across the cell OTHER than the SECONDARY COIL of the step up transformer acting as a conductor Closes Switch for the back EMF of the Choke to source its way threw?

To better Clear up the confusion, with my choke it does not matter what kind of material the coil is made of, it does not matter the amount of wraps, and it does not matter the number of wraps!

Please answer my above questions.

Also, for the Last Question,. Is my Choke Core In Use at this moment? I would Indeed like to have it back so that I can (Pay) a company to AnaylizE this core so that I can have distributor Sell me the part it several different shapes and sizes.

IT is not the core I care about, it is what the material is made of that disturbs me to the point I am about to loose my patience. We want to know what the core is made of! We all want to play with this core or cores very close to it so we can ALL gain these same results (Cores that Allow very high voltages to be read across water.)

As we have found, the Step up Configeration, Number of wraps, size of core, None of that means anything accept the TYPE OF THE MATERIAL THE CORE IS MADE OF. That is what makes the setup work, The core material type.


Please Send the core back to this address A.S.A.P so I can Dedicate MY TIME in have someone that knows what they're doing figure out what type of material it is.

I WILL PAY WHATEVER YOU WANT for you to ship it back. My shipping address.

9657 County Road 61
Florence, AL 35634
Brian Coats.


You can instant message me an email here of the amount to be paid, along with the Paypal Email Address you want me to deposite the money into!

I'm sure I've given you guys over a year to learn what this core is, it has not happened. I am not pointing any fingers, Just send the core back.

Please let me know your Intentions. Thank you,, Hydrocars,  Aka Brian Coats.

THIS WAY, I"LL GET THE CORE MATERIAL POSTED FOR EVERYONE TO REPLICATE HV ACROSS ANY CELL CONTAINING ANY TYPE OF WATER.

Id you have any more cores youd like to send for testing, feel free to do so as I will anylizE them as well.
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2012, 05:22:42 am
Sorry for the above not to be spelled all that great, but no time for wordcheck here. I just wanted to jump back in here and add that the frequency  sent to this chokes does not really seem to matter at all. There where WIDE ranges of Frequencies that seemed to put HV across the cells.
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2012, 20:32:04 pm
HEllo webmug,

I think 600 turns for the primary is way too much.. but who knows... According to my theory, it could work... but you would need to put some amps in the primary and this wire won't let you do this...

I just got 1,5 kilos of 24 awg wire to check if it will work.. . if more turns are needed i will need to use thinner wire... yet more for the secondary as it needs at least twice the turns... for it to work...


The woltage multiplication follows the number of turns proportionality, multiplied again by a factor which depends on the energy accumulated and the time it will take to collapse.

Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 26, 2012, 19:11:55 pm
I would like for you to look at this and let me know what you think.
 

Here is the first link http://www.google.com/patents/US4484085

Now that you know what you're dealing with, here is the second. http://4hv.org/print.php?plugin:forum.43795
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 26, 2012, 19:51:08 pm
I took a look into that, it belongs to the vector inversion voltage multiplication technics... Really able to generate thousands of volts for nanoseconds..

If i recall well the spiral capacitance is charged and when it sparks the vector inversion takes place and put all the voltages series added in line..

Its sometimes used for laser power supplies from what i read about...

Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2012, 11:51:58 am
How many turns you got?

Did you wired the way I described?

Keep it simple stupid don't make it complicated.

Is what i'm trying to do now.

Forget it is a short circuit for a moment... what is needed, to apply high electric fields restricting the amps.

In that short text, stan clearly states that for achieving step charging effect the pulse width must be greater than 50%

I use the VIC configuration for the copper type mentioned above.

My primary has 600 wnd and 30AWG, the secondary and chokes have all 3000 wnd also 30AWG.
All coils wound same clockwise direction.

In that short text, stan clearly states that for achieving step charging effect the pulse width must be greater than 50%

I only pulse the circuit with 50%, lets see what happens when I change this with open-circuit...

Regards
Tested adjusting the pulse duty cycle on a fixed frequency. When it is other than 50% I can not gain maximum voltage.

So already written by Stan:
Quote
Variable pulse frequency generator (70) of Figure (3-5) varies and adjusts pulse frequency (63) (50% duty cycle pulse) while gated pulse frequency generator (80) of Figure (3-5) varies and adjusts pulse width (54a xxx 54n). These controlled and variable pulse features are, now, translated to Resonant Charging pulse train (65a xxx 65n) of Figure (3-21) via Unipolar pulse train (64a xxx 64n) of Figure (3-20) during Resonant Action (160) of Figure (3-26) when signal coupling is applied across Resonant Cavity (170) of Figure (3-24) via positive voltage zone (66).

Regards
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 07:28:07 am
I'm doing my work here... my new chokes got 1000 turns 24awg and the secondary is 28 awg 1600turns + 500 turns 26awg

the primary i will make taps of 20 turns.

I believe that up to 20 kv per coil will be possible... if anything burn before  8)

Thats because the chokes helps to accumulate energy within the core to be discharged during the collapse generating the high voltages open circuit condition, amps restricted...

Basically if i got 20 turns at the primary and pulse it with 50v there will be 5100 at the secondary and 2500 at each choke....

The electric field strength depends on the wire length at the primary,, in my case 20 turns means 2,4 meters... than the electric field at the transformer is 50/2,4=20,83 v/m and as i said is the electric field at the transformer thus is the same for the secondary, however during pulse off it becomes 166,66 v/m

Thereto If the voltage limit of my switch during pulse off is 600v i can work safely at 400v if everything is fine tuned... so there is a magnification factor of 8 so 2500v*8 = 20k per choke

so there is 100 volts differential and the total impedance of the circuit is around 200 ohms or so... thus max 0,5 amps should be allowed...

the chokes had around 50mh each at air measurement...

I will add than a coil in series for tuning...

I just got a wild idea..

to put the tx5 coil for say connected to the circuit ground not connected to the secondary and than connected to the cell, and than connect the secondary with the primary, so the kick back energy at the primary also goes to the circuit doubling the frequency.. and further enhancing the electric field of the chokes... that where created during the collapse...
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 12:32:22 pm
Seb sorry for dissapoint you but you can calculate all day long because the real thing is totaly different.I build some time ago one vic tr.:primary 15 turns 18awg /sec:7000 turns 30awg /chokes 1000turns 30awg.the pr.was pulsed with 26volts and got about 230v output with barely no amp power,and when i hooked up to cell same anoyng story:voltage drops to 2v.I am tired winding douzens of coils with no result,and to be onest if you don't have proper winding machine that could make a perfect wire by wire arangement the efort of windind manualy tousands of turns is in vain,because if you don't wind it perfect you lose inductance,therefore voltage output.How do you explain flybacks have almost the same ratio of winds between primary and sec. as mine but be able to output 20kv..because are factory made and isolated properly,if a single turn is a little offset it will short out internaly by arching....the point is you cannot do manualy what factory does...You can do transformers with the limit of several thousan volts,from that on the arching ocours and your in trouble....But more testing needs to be done and i run out of wire...time and patience,and without a scope i am blind...Keep up the good work!!!
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 13:14:30 pm
Seb sorry for dissapoint you but you can calculate all day long because the real thing is totaly different.I build some time ago one vic tr.:primary 15 turns 18awg /sec:7000 turns 30awg /chokes 1000turns 30awg.the pr.was pulsed with 26volts and got about 230v output with barely no amp power,and when i hooked up to cell same anoyng story:voltage drops to 2v.I am tired winding douzens of coils with no result,and to be onest if you don't have proper winding machine that could make a perfect wire by wire arangement the efort of windind manualy tousands of turns is in vain,because if you don't wind it perfect you lose inductance,therefore voltage output.How do you explain flybacks have almost the same ratio of winds between primary and sec. as mine but be able to output 20kv..because are factory made and isolated properly,if a single turn is a little offset it will short out internaly by arching....the point is you cannot do manualy what factory does...You can do transformers with the limit of several thousan volts,from that on the arching ocours and your in trouble....But more testing needs to be done and i run out of wire...time and patience,and without a scope i am blind...Keep up the good work!!!
Hi,

Don't think it really matters how perfect you wind the VIC coils. I wound a couple of coils, 3000wnd; sec, choke L1 and choke L2 all the same windings count on my DIY coilwinder. After measuring the coils with a BK LCR meter I almost have the same values.
Secondary L=82.05mH @ 100Hz; L1 L=82.54mH @ 100Hz and L2 L=82.74mH; Capacitance Secondary C=8.672uF @ 100Hz, L1 C=8.652uF @ 100Hz and L2 C=8.647uF @ 100Hz.

I agree, Scope is is necessary tool!

Regards
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 13:26:33 pm
The same value in comparation to what?Stan's? Every book i read about transformers does not mentions the neetness of the windings but i so a short old documentary about coils and says the factors that influencess inductance are....http://www.youtube.com/user/Venturecaplaw/videos
Search the coils docs...I'v noticed that myself :i mada a messy  small vic injector like all in one coil,and from 26v pulsed i got 2v output...so...neetness is important,btw nice chokes ..seems factory made...what's your jig your winding?....
Here:

direct link
feature=plcp
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 13:46:27 pm
The same value in comparation to what?Stan's? Every book i read about transformers does not mentions the neetness of the windings but i so a short old documentary about coils and says the factors that influencess inductance are....http://www.youtube.com/user/Venturecaplaw/videos
Search the coils docs...I'v noticed that myself :i mada a messy  small vic injector like all in one coil,and from 26v pulsed i got 2v output...so...neetness is important,btw nice chokes ..seems factory made...what's your jig your winding?....
Here:

direct link
feature=plcp
Don't say these are the coils Stan had  8) Just to give an DIY example winding coils.

The inductance and capacitance are always under external influence; earth spin, day-night, temperature, angle etc. It's never possible to have exactly the same values. Everything is an approximation, calculating this is never possible, but good guessing.

My DIY coil winder is shown here: http://open-source-energy.org/forum/showthread.php?tid=170&pid=4964#pid4964

Regards
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 14:22:25 pm
Some hi-tech stuff, you feed the wire manually i presume,my coilwinder is manual with a poket calculator for counting...verry frustrating when winding 10.000 turns
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 15:14:00 pm
Seb sorry for dissapoint you but you can calculate all day long because the real thing is totaly different.I build some time ago one vic tr.:primary 15 turns 18awg /sec:7000 turns 30awg /chokes 1000turns 30awg.the pr.was pulsed with 26volts and got about 230v output with barely no amp power,and when i hooked up to cell same anoyng story:voltage drops to 2v.I am tired winding douzens of coils with no result,and to be onest if you don't have proper winding machine that could make a perfect wire by wire arangement the efort of windind manualy tousands of turns is in vain,because if you don't wind it perfect you lose inductance,therefore voltage output.How do you explain flybacks have almost the same ratio of winds between primary and sec. as mine but be able to output 20kv..because are factory made and isolated properly,if a single turn is a little offset it will short out internaly by arching....the point is you cannot do manualy what factory does...You can do transformers with the limit of several thousan volts,from that on the arching ocours and your in trouble....But more testing needs to be done and i run out of wire...time and patience,and without a scope i am blind...Keep up the good work!!!

And yet Meyers made his coils with a drill. 

Hmmmm.

TS
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 15:59:33 pm
Adys

I'm not going to apply voltage across the water, just a few during pulse on...

The high voltage will appear during pulse off but is a potential only in reference to infinite... the circuit is open... as there will be a charge separation maybe there will be some reading...

I mean when you connect a flyback to the cell what you are doing?

A flyback acumulate energy during pulse on and discharge it during pulse off.. if you connect to the cell this discharge will see a short circuit so the difference of potential you can read across the cell is minimum... will be equal to the current times the resistance like..

The vic allows some min amount 0f current to flow during pulse on accumulating energy into the core, and during pulse off this energy become pure voltage potential energy... The vic apply high voltage but not across the water but across the chokes that are made for absorbing this high voltage almost entirely so just few volts arrive to the water, not that you are wasting energy like in the flyback case as its being accumulated to collapse later...

You see the difference?

a flyback or a common transformer will try to apply a potential difference across the water...

the vic creates electrical voltage zones...

I don't know if you followed the later discussions we had about the vic configurations... i suggest to you to check it out...

I'm betting that the only correct vic was the one shown in the patent wo 89/12704 where the chokes subtract the voltage of the secondary in series...


About my wild idea.. i started thinking about it because i wanted to find a way to preserve the switch while achieving yet great power input... but also what made me curious was where stan says in the patent that the choke is connected to the oposite side of the primary coil and later in the same text he show that there is no electrical connection between primary side and secondary side of the vic.

Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 16:17:06 pm
I'm using a dc motor and few resistors to control its speed while connected to a car battery,.. it is my 0,5hp motor from the other project...
So my winding machine is fully non automatic so i got to count each turn...
 
What i'm doing is counting it mentally but not perfectly only approximating, as i aways lost the counting.. but i'm measuring the weight with a nice scale i got here and also the resistance and inductance of the wire... so this are my measuring tools...

A good measuring is the resistance and weight, you can also determine the awg of the wire with this measurements and a table... I had to do it here because i didn't knew what wire was here for me to use... I mean is very harder to work on wire length...

The final test is to turn on the vic with a full wave bridge driver and measure the coils voltages at very low power applied.. to be sure they got the sizes i want...



And addys is not that easy to make such high voltages at home made transformers, because of insulation.... air is a shit around high voltage cables... it destructs insulation... corona discharge...

I say this because i already went to transformers manufactors and saw their processes... i try to use this to construct my ones... but i'm always thinking that insulation is going to cause me problems...

the ideal is to use oil, vacuum, epoxy sealing... 

Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 16:46:57 pm
I tried the trick with the resistors to slow dowd the speed but i burned them in a few secounds,i bet you have high watage resistors,otherways it will burn because the motor  want to draw amps and the resistor barely manages to opose...Why don't you use a poket calc with a cam to press the equal button it's easier then to weigh the wire and do crazy math formulas
Title: Re: More volts more turns...
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2012, 18:34:35 pm
Hello addys

try high watage resistor or make one with resistance wire...

My motor is a dc motor was rated 90v 5 amps 1700rpm if i feed it with 12volts only 0,5 amps flow... I than added some resistors and thin wire coils i had here all in parallel with a high watage variable resistor i think its 2w 1kohm those from vishays with 10 turns wire wound... it do get hot and seem that it was kind of damaged when turning it but i can adjust nicely the torque of the motor... I didn't measured the resistance, i just tried an it worked nice with the values i got here... I don't let it turn too fast, just enough to force the wire to keep well fixed, and i don't get bored...

In the future i will make it controlled from transistors and with easy reverse direction button, speed... instead of changing the wires polarity, resistance...

Hope i don't need to do this modification if the thing works...  :)

i just took a measure my chokes has around 4,5henries with the CC core... around 1000 turns

so the secondary should have around 18H