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Electrolysis => How to make HHO cells more efficient => Topic started by: Lektor on July 06, 2011, 09:16:05 am

Title: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 06, 2011, 09:16:05 am
By now there are many ways available to produce HHO but which is best? Meaning, which method produces the most HHO consuming the lowest energy.
 
Is Stan's Water Fuel Cell with its electronic best or is there a better method?
 
What is your best result concerning HHO production vs. energy input and how did you achieve it?
 
Am reading through many documents and am not sure which way to go.
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 12, 2011, 20:58:47 pm
Hi Lektor,

As far as we know, a drycell is the best cell for a normal price.
They come in many shapes. Efficiencies from zero to 150% according to faraday.

Nobody has shown a proper working Meyer cell doing higher efficiencies then the drycells, till sofar.

Hopes this helps.

Steve

Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 13, 2011, 10:09:50 am
I am with you on this drycell is best and affordable too.
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2011, 06:51:49 am
Dry cells are nowadays best source of stored or storing energy to be used but are expensive.
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2012, 06:31:41 am
The lead use in dry cell should be very less as far as pollution control concern.
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 08, 2012, 09:02:42 am
Dry cells are the best in order to store energy and requires less maintainance but its quite expensive.

Affordable Kitchen Cabinets (http://remodelproducts.com/kitchen-cabinets/)
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 30, 2012, 09:09:05 am
dry tubes or plates? I like the way a dry ( sealed ) tube set hold a charge :)
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2019, 15:34:36 pm
Well after all these years no one has come up with a cell to produce HHO Efficiently and lots of gas.
You need to have something that anyone can build and it works, so my take on all this is it is the challenge not to do it to run your car on it, as now electric cars seems the way to go. 
The other thing to me is that most draw a WFC with a positive and negative just like a electrolytic capacitor, well that is where you are wrong it can act as a capacitor but as a non-polarised one.  Then again it is not like a battery, or you would have separate petitions with the two plate and the electrolyte in between, but a battery has a mix of acid and water for reaction to the lead in the plates.
So the WFC the tube type may have one singe tube with a solid rod down the centre.
Two tubes one inside the other.
Then with one tube with the water in it you have a single cell, with just plain water or distilled water, rain water is better than tap water.
The car battery cell with the mixture has a low path of resistance between the plates to some extent.
A WFC has high resistance between the two anodes, the closer you get tem the resistance gets lower, but to be technical with water in this situation you have resistivity.
So you will have to force an ion exchange path for the voltage and current to pass from one anode to the other.
You all have been using a series circuit to try and do this, to me the best way is to do this is to use a parallel circuit.
You can use plates if you want to but this is again much the same challenge. I had what is known as a circular cell I still have the design somewhere but it was for a cell that used powdered KOH mixture.

To work all this out correctly you need the volume of the cell, how many tubes and what type the length and diameters the height and diameter of the cell.
Then you would need to measure the capacitance of each tube while it is immersed in the water.  And if you can the DC resistance, if not then go for the reactance using a meter to do that.  What power supply do you intend to use, and how  you are going to apply it.
As in just positive going square wave 50/50 and at what frequency?  Are you going to try and use a PWM.   
Myself I would use  a push pull circuit I will if you a really interested I will draw up what I think it has been a long time
Ask the question first
What are you trying to achieve?
Do you really care if it is not plain water to get a lot of HHO?
Or is it the challenge just to see what you can or if you can get HHO from water in a big way?
 
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2019, 15:11:17 pm
Brian, you stated that we have to see the wfc as a non pol capacitor.
To use a coil in parallel.
This means you say that we can create hho with an ac signal?

Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2019, 16:17:49 pm
Steve, Andrija Puharich method is A.C. current, but it is not simple tune to the resonance.
LC resonance is used to make use of optimal power transfer, not to do a magic.
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2019, 17:30:53 pm
Steve, Andrija Puharich method is A.C. current, but it is not simple tune to the resonance.
LC resonance is used to make use of optimal power transfer, not to do a magic.
Thats one way to look at it as Puharich does explain the polarization process.
Puharich actually used a.m. current.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amplitude_modulation
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2019, 19:55:35 pm
AM is a dynamic pulse of the same frequency, is it.
The radiowave sinewave has a specific frequency, but the top and bottum change in highed.
Just like an broken alternator can produce if you would modulate the rotor coil....

I always have been a fan of sinewaves because whole mother natur excists out of it....
In that perspective....
See what a wipe does when you hit with it.
Maybe we have to hit the watermolecules hard with the righ wipe
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 05, 2019, 20:10:40 pm
So, now the million dollar question.
Is a big cell easier to get into some kind of ac resonance or a small cell?
Both Meyer and Puharich used sparkplug size cells.....
So maybe...
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2019, 04:37:46 am
Ok Steve and all
First decide if you are going to use a tube open cell with one or more tubes
Are you going to have two tubes or tubes with a rods?

Or a plate open cell as above with plates in pairs instead of tubes

Or what is known as cell stack, this has a number of stacked plates and most time with spacers.
With these the electrolyte whatever you use flows through the whole cell stack.
It can be pumped through or use convection.

There are the formats that I know and I have tried them all
There is another is completely different a special one of my own.
It is an open cell but the electrodes are of expanded metal
One is SS and the other is coated or plated palladium is one that could be used.
Then they are connected SS the negative and the plated the positive
This is the first time that I have let on about this type to any one and it has never been on open source.
and again one circuit that can be used in many ways
The circulating currents are calculated by V/R when at resonance  DC Reistance
I will see if I can give you an example
Brian
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2019, 18:20:15 pm
Thanks Brian.

I ll guess i will try two cells to see what will happen. a small one and later a bigger one.
Do you have any idea in which range and size the resonant coil should be?

Cheers
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 02:42:05 am
Hi Steve  well if you already have a cell tubes already made up and have been testing it  then give me the detals of the cell dimensions number of tubes and there dimensions  then what power soure that you have availiabe.
such as 24v, 12v   or ?  110/120ac ,  240 vac  ?
then you will need to see if you can get the capacitance of ech tude if the re is more than one.
Brian 
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 08:08:09 am
Ok Steve and all
First decide if you are going to use a tube open cell with one or more tubes
Are you going to have two tubes or tubes with a rods?

Or a plate open cell as above with plates in pairs instead of tubes

Or what is known as cell stack, this has a number of stacked plates and most time with spacers.
With these the electrolyte whatever you use flows through the whole cell stack.
It can be pumped through or use convection.

There are the formats that I know and I have tried them all
There is another is completely different a special one of my own.
It is an open cell but the electrodes are of expanded metal
One is SS and the other is coated or plated palladium is one that could be used.
Then they are connected SS the negative and the plated the positive
This is the first time that I have let on about this type to any one and it has never been on open source.
and again one circuit that can be used in many ways
The circulating currents are calculated by V/R when at resonance  DC Reistance
I will see if I can give you an example
Brian

is this file empty? from the docs you posted everything i try download seems empty... why?
Title: Re: Talking about efficiency
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2019, 14:11:04 pm
ok will try again