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Projects by members => Projects by members => Dave => Topic started by: Dave on May 27, 2011, 02:17:38 am

Title: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2011, 02:17:38 am
Here is where I will post my epg findings.
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 27, 2011, 02:20:34 am
picture 2
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2011, 00:40:12 am
picture 2

Is that a coppertube, Dave?


Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 28, 2011, 01:20:16 am
Yeah it's copper, found it at work
the different sections have different numbers of turns, 50, 100, 200, 300, 400 turns. this way if I get anything working I can see what has the most useful output. I still need to wind a primary coil with a core so I can pulse it if I want too.
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2011, 10:47:45 am
Do you want to use hho thru these tubes?
Or water?

Steve
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2011, 16:36:34 pm
I'm planning on using Hho, the Canadian patents is what I'm working on first. I did notice something interesting about water today, my cell holds around 2 volts all the time, but when I turn the pump on and force water through the tubes I measure around 6 volts across my cell. This is without any power applyed, maybe water could be used? I don't remember reading anything about Stan using water in the epg?


Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 29, 2011, 19:25:30 pm
Dave,
I've been pumping water through my 3" tubes out of curiousity since you started posting about it.  I've observed a rise in amperage on the meter as I increase the flow rate.  Do you see this?  Is there an explaination?  It is interesting, yet I observe no more gas output than without pumping water through.  I use a variable speed pump and have noticed that when run moderately it fills the entire cell volume, hoses and pump with milky bubbles.   


kb
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 30, 2011, 07:36:09 am
kickback,
my results are a little different, I need to test further but I'll tell you what i'm coming up with so far. My tube cell is designed so water I pump in has to go through the tubes and cannot go around. I have it set up in such a way so the pump does not suck in the gas, but it does happen when I put the cell under pressure. With the pump on, my cell draws 10% more current. I found that I was producing almost 3 times as much gas this way. My tube cell is much larger then yours so that could have something to do with it. I'll test further and see what I come up with. The pump doesn't help anything when I have my vic hooked up, at least not yet
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 24, 2011, 23:44:00 pm
I finished the "magnitization tube" to magnetize the gas! I also have a very small air pump and I'm going to put it in a PVC pipe just like my water pump for my cell, but I think it is way to small! I've been looking for some kind of transfer air pump but I can't find one anywhere. Anyone know where I can find something like this?

I had an idea a few weeks ago that I'm still thinking about trying if my first set up works at all. What if we took a normal electrolysis cell and hooked the output gas to a modified epg. between the epg and the cell would be magnets to magnitis the gas. now for the modified epg, it would not be a closed loop tube, the magnetized Hho would flow into a small long epg tube and exit the other end to be used in an engine or whatever. With this setup the gas would be pushed by the cell and wouldn't need a pump. The gas could still be used to creat electricity after it has produced electricity running through the epg. their would be nothing stopping someone from adding more epg tubing and remagnitising the gas.
let me know if this makes sense, I've never been the best at explaining things
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 02:06:56 am
steve tried this couple of years ago.


Stan talks about using the gas pressure to move a turbine that moves the epg gas. The hho is not the magnetizable gas and is dangerous ask steve...


br
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 02:51:48 am
Thanks sebs, I'll talk to steve about it.

Have you read the Canadian patent? it doesn't call for anything but Hho and magnets. The similar amarrican patent calls for magnetic particles in the Hho and no magnets.
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 09:29:29 am
I see from you fotos you're using copper tubing to pass the hho but would that not produce a current through the tubing itself? In the epg patents Stan also mentions using a NON-conducting tube. Since i am also working on a EPG i would also like to know why magnetized gas particles would be more dangerous?

Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 09:52:38 am
I wasn't very clear... i wanted to mean that using the HHO gas as the gas to be magnetized is dangerous cause it is explosive. Actually meyer used the HHO pressure to run a turbine that transfer this mechanical energy to the epg with the magnetizable gas (argon and iron ions) so as to generate electricity witch is feedback into the cell so the more gas you produce the more feedback and consequently more gas come out... This is a exponential function, if for example you could recover 99% of the energy than for every watt you input you would have worth 99 times or so, more gas out per watt... There is a graph somewhere in my posts called resonance feedback.... where i calculated the gain in energy in function of the feedback efficiency.. If i remember well if you get 90% feedback you get a gain factor of 10.


However is somewhat dangerous, if your pressure become to great the gas will explode- so be careful if trying this stuff
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 14:24:09 pm
Sharky, a plastic tube may be better but I'm using copper for now because that's what Stan did,

Sebs, Your talking about one of stan's final epg designs with a permanently magnetic gas, which requires the hydrogen gas gun to make. This project is a replication of stans simplest patent, the Canadian epg. As for the gas being dangerous under presure, that's true. That's why the patent explains that you should increase presure of the epg with a non combustible gas
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 21:44:00 pm
Actually i meant this one.. Stan made many designs...


I think the magnetized particles will have a kind of monopole...only north for example so stan could get them repealed by a similar polarity, so he could make a closed loop where the particles are moved by HHo generated flow and the hho can be collected while the magnetized gas remain in the epg this also need a pump cause otherwise the particles would not want to go in that direction, it would go on the direction of least energy.. This would be the electrical gas generator..


The epg uses magnetized gas, it only require the right dc arc temperature to make, a vacuum pump, argon gas, iron(B+) and a magnet..... So tubes should handle the vacuum... maybe not... maybe you can just keep flowing the new gas into it and close it after a while to assure you have mostly this gas inside the closed tube...


The tubes should be non magnetic and bad conductors or they will represent a shorted turn... witch leads me to think would be better to use ss 304 material...


you need to consider how many particles are getting vaporized to calculate the flow rate of argon into the spark gap... there is an optimum ratio.


If the thing is really copper, maybe the shorted turn could have a meaning... but actually i believe it does not... I think it could be 304 coated with enamel that resembles copper coated, cause of the enamel color...
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2011, 23:18:28 pm
Sebs, i was thinking the same thing, I don't have the proper equipment so I'll simply let the gas flow through the tubes for a few min before I presurise it. the magnetic gas is still
A mistrey to me, I've seen people using park gaps and add the proper elements without success, at this time I'm not interested in trying to create the magnetized gas stan talks about, at least until I have everything done on the resonance cell that I can do. idk about a monopolir gas? I don't see how it would make a difference? 304 makes sense and would be easier to work with, only further testing and money input will tell
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 09, 2012, 22:40:18 pm
latest photo of the epg, finally ready for testing
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2012, 11:11:50 am
Hi Dave,

What are you gonna put thru the EPG?
Water, HHO, or electrolysed water?
Do you have a scope to hook up to yr coils.

Steve
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2012, 16:23:11 pm
Hi Steve,

I think I'm going to start out by feeding the gas from the gas gun. Ions is what I'm going for.
Yeah I have a pretty nice scope now that I will be testing with
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2012, 18:20:24 pm
Hi Steve,

I think I'm going to start out by feeding the gas from the gas gun. Ions is what I'm going for.
Yeah I have a pretty nice scope now that I will be testing with
Ha, good!
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2012, 21:27:59 pm
I recommend to you a good read about magnetic confinement (bottle)... Somehow i'm almost thinking that meyer could have used a tokamak like design to inspire his epg construction. I found that in a tokamak they prevent the ionized fuel from touching the walls of the container simply creating a toroidal magnetic field mixed with a toro spiral magnetic field... than they apply the RF perpendicular to it so as to heat the fuel till fusion occurs...

This come from the fact that unbounded charges do not repel as strongly each other... so when you apply a magnetic field the charges goes to the axial center of the field, in the case of a toroid anywhere in the case of a solenoid at the center of the solenoid. just like would do a small permanent magnet. 

I'm pretty sure that meyer had non only electrical engineering background but also he knew everything about nuclear physics and also particle physics...

I'm going thru the hard way... i'm doing a course of physics and nuclear reactor engineering to know more about...

If the ions touch the copper they wouldn't neutralize stealing an electron from the copper?

So if there is only one kind of ion say positive into the epg...
In that case the all epg will become positively charged and it would explain why meyer used a big piece of plastic or glass i'm not sure whats that.. as the support for the epg...   

if we could make a kind of multipacting with the ions we could strip of the electrons from the atoms much easier... but as i pointed the container of the ionized gas will become charged... by induction or whatever...
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2012, 21:38:12 pm
Sebs, I will read up on it. I think your right about the gas becoming neutral by sterling electrons from the copper tube. I think this will happen right after the ions discharge the photon energy. If our ions are positive could be not simply give the copper tube a positive charge? This way it would repel the ions
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 12, 2012, 04:35:21 am
Sebs, I looked into magnetic confinement. It's some awesome stuff, most of what I read was about those giant fusion reactors! I will read more but I have s pretty good idea why you turned me towards it : )
I was hoping you could clear some things up for me. For example, if we have a copper tube filled with positive ions and we wrap a coil around it and charge it, would the ions be attracted to the negative part of the coil. Electromagnets have both positive and negative sides right? Well unless it was dc? anyway, this seems like a very good thing to look into. I wish I would of designed my epg a bit differently but I guess I still can haha
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 12, 2012, 16:06:24 pm
Dave, i'm happy you looked into it, awesome stuff really.

Actually i don't understood what you mean by negative side of the coil, i guess what will happen is that the ions will align in the middle of the tube axial "without touching the walls like" and right in the position of equilibrium which is exactly the center of a solenoid or in a toroid anywhere inside the toroid..
thats because in a toroidal field there is no field "traveling outside" so there is no middle. I think it need to be DC for this but i'm not sure


This magnetic bottles are used to confine charged particles and even anti-matter.


I don't know why but i found a similarity with the EPG i thought with spheric magnets inside and an idea i had a long time ago, which i called the vibration transformer, would be an arrangement of 3 magnets two fixed at the sides repelling a center magnet as to make it free to move... Than the idea was to wind a primary and secondary coil around it and ad a capacitor in series with the primary and pulse it with low voltage... the idea was to drive it at the frequency of the harmonic mechanical oscillation of the magnets... I guessed at the time that it could possibly show some strange effects, but i wasn't able to construct it, with the knowledge i had. At least with this setup much could be learned from.

I meant this because there is an EPG where the gas don't need to flow inside...

Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 12, 2012, 19:17:17 pm
What I ment was a coil has both a north and a south pole. So why wouldn't the positive ions make contact with the copper tube at the south pole? Do magnetic poles and electric charges not mix in that way? I just need a little help putting my mind at ease haha
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2012, 03:35:58 am
A charged particle inside a cylindrical magnetic field wants to go to the center of the cylinder aka solenoid. Thats because is the position of equilibrium. In a toroid they go to the axial center of the field but magnetically anywhere is the center so they stay stop anywhere.
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2012, 04:47:34 am
Thanks, I'll take that explanation. My study of stuff like that has a long way to go. I'm starting my formal education of physics next semester. I still have 2 years before I will be done with grad school but after that my plan is to go in your foot steps and study physics. Hopefully I will be half way done by the end of grad school. It seems like the best bath for working on my hobbies.

Anyway, I have my epg set up with an input coil with a core. I don't think that will be good enough but I'll give it a go anyway. My other idea is to charge a hv cap and connect an lead from the positive side of the cap to the copper tube. 
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2012, 05:07:19 am
Thanks, I'll take that explanation. My study of stuff like that has a long way to go. I'm starting my formal education of physics next semester. I still have 2 years before I will be done with grad school but after that my plan is to go in your foot steps and study physics. Hopefully I will be half way done by the end of grad school. It seems like the best bath for working on my hobbies.

Anyway, I have my epg set up with an input coil with a core. I don't think that will be good enough but I'll give it a go anyway. My other idea is to charge a hv cap and connect an lead from the positive side of the cap to the copper tube. 
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2012, 06:26:53 am
Did some epg tests today, they were very simple. I pumped Hho and air through a tube filled with magnets and to my surprise I saw a waveform of around 40 mv and a few kz. It seemed really touchy and I would get about 2mv reading from the the pump but maybe Stans first Canadian epg patent has some weight to it. I need to spend a few more hours with it to test but I'm very surprised so far. This was an experiment in expected to fail.
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 19, 2012, 04:14:41 am
here is what my setup looks like for testing at the moment.
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 27, 2012, 06:50:42 am
In the epg, Stan calls for a magnetic gas. As of now, magnetic gasses don't exist except under extreme conditions. If Stan had created a magnetic gas, I believe he would of had a much more detailed patent about it.

What if we simply created a charged gas rather than a magnetic gas? A negatively charged gas and than we pulse it back and forth in the epg.
It would act as ac moving through a wire and the energy would be transferred to the epg coil.

How do we produce such as gas? I have some ideas
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2012, 00:33:53 am
The generator used for the epg in the epg patent doesnt look like it has water in it..  ill  have to reread it but if it does it looks like a bingo fuel reactor but in my opinion that generator looks like the gas is actually part of the electrodes... like carbon electrodes being turned into a gas themselves or maybe even like steel electrodes being turned into a charged gas.
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2012, 01:09:16 am
the europian patent says the tips of the magnetizable electrode material in the spark gap will be vaporized into particles :)
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2012, 16:51:20 pm
yes you all know what that means .. :)
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 28, 2012, 18:38:26 pm
Yes, I'm aware of what Stan talks about. I'm most interested in a charged gas rather than a magnetic gas at this point
Title: Re: epg
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 29, 2012, 06:26:04 am
Anyone that wants to try to produce a magnetic gas, I wish them the best of luck. What I am most interested in is a negatively charged gas. This is why I have started this topic under my projects rather than the general section.

If we managed to produce a anion gas and alternated it back and forth with electric fields, I believe it would act as ac current and induce a current in the epg coil. After all, electricity is just electrons and their ability to move.

Now for the charged gas. Negative ion generators will not produce a desired effect. We need to provide a source of electrons to add to the gas.   I believe we have a few options for the gas. The gasses with the highest electron affinity would be the most likely candidates because they would be most stable with an extra electron. Any gas in the halogen group would be optimal. Adding a electron to fluorine for example would produce an anion with a neon electron configuration. All though a halogen gas seems logical, hydrogen would be the best candidate in my opinion. Other halogen gasses are dangerous and hard to get. We can make hydrogen at home  :).  Hydrogen its in group one because of its valance electrons but it really should be in group 7 of the representative elements because of its other properties. It has a high electron affinity and electronegativity. With the addition of one electron, it will have a noble gas electron configuration (He). This is why H2 exists in nature.  Since hydrogen has a high electron affinity and because electrons are only in the 1s sub shell, it believe it will form the most stable anion.