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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on February 21, 2011, 07:11:51 am

Title: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 21, 2011, 07:11:51 am
Guys i think that i have just fully understood what meyer did, and i recommend you to start experimenting right now.


The vic in the patent will have tx5 coil in resonance in relative to the inner SS tube and the outside of the container capacitance. This makes that when the positive charge applied to the water capacitor outer SS tube thru the 56 positive choke, negative charges cannot go thru the inductor cause of the positive impedance reactance thus it goes to the capacitance on the outside of the container, in the sequence when the pulse is off the charge flows from outside of the container into the water thru the inductor, so you can effectively re tar-d-  the current in relation to the voltage by 180°. This is the resonance, the coils must only be made to resonate with the container basically. This will cause the frequency doubling and the step charging effect because of the way the coils are arranged. When the capacitance is discharging thru the coil the other pulse is generated, but at the same time the negative side now really become negative. Than the process reverse and the resonance keep going. Simple as that


I think that he used unipolar pulses to force the effect even further. But could work with 50% pulses gated.

A sheet of copper can be added in the outside of the container to create the capacitance in relation to the inner tube.

The resonance will restrict the amps by retarding the current, and by the effect i mentioned about the "pseudo positive" witch will attract electrons to the negative electrode preventing them to flow.


Between the tubes there will be a static DC and an AC field.


Tomorrow i want to hear your experiment results.


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 21, 2011, 13:22:34 pm
Anyone understood what i've just said?


Please reply... Tell me what do you think.   


sebosfato
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 02:46:34 am
Really sad to see that anyone understood what i mean. 22 views and no reply. Sorry.


Today i'm very happy the university seem to be what expected, the best. I will have free access to oscilloscopes and any kind of meters in the labs during the day. Seems that i only need to make an informal request to a professor.


I happy.


Than this theory come up.


On my calculations to make the cell here resonate at 5khz my tuned choke will have 3H and the primary 2mh the secondary and the other choke i estimated something like 450mh each having the diode in the middle.


with around 5 watts and recirculating 200ma the circuit should develop 20kv at resonance. On the other side a voltage of max piv 600 volts should exist between the water plates of course having the amps restricted.


For me now is very obvious the mechanisms meyer used to restrict the amps, from the water, the coils, the resistor...


The coils is the most phenomenal in my opinion, cause when you induce a counter voltage to the flow of the current in the coil you will have currents flowing in both directions in the wire so one restrict the other. Obviously a min flow must exist but the circuit can than be tuned to restrict the amps to a min. Tuned i mean to choose the right chokes, core, wire, frequency, cavity, water, pulsing circuit...


Now for me is all about have the time and energy to build all this and to check. Hopefully, in the next week i will have all the days free and will only study at night. In this week anyway i will not have much time, there are activities all day long in the university.


all for now. Stay tuned!



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 03:04:50 am
Just to try making things clearer, The coils tx2 and tx4 are fields aiding thus having a diode there between them, you form a current source (charge pump). On the other side you have the other coil tx5 wound in opposite direction witch implies that whenever from the tx2 tx4 combination exits a positive pulse, from tx5 also a "pseudo" positive pulse is applied, (relative to ground) therefore the coil have in it current that wants to flow in one direction because is serially connected to the cell (short circuit) but at the same time as the voltage in the coil is reverse in polarity it restrict the amps. It will restrict the amps cause the coil will have a positive and a negative side (induced) and therefore the electrons don't want to leave the positive side to go flow thru the water, nor they want to go to the ground witch is already negative. 


As tx5 is connected to ground witch i'm assuming to be the ground level outside the container and considering meyer concern about insulation, i see that it has a capacitance in parallel with it witch is formed by the container (water bath housing) as main dielectric much like a Leyden jar. Therefore should form a resonant tank circuit. This creates at the same time the ability to double the frequency, and to retard the current going thru the water. When the resonance flips and the pseudo positive reverse and become negative while the other side still positive cause of the blocking diode is when i think that the gases are liberated.


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 09:38:54 am
Wants  to understand amp restriction? Than just think: What if the pseudo positive is more positive relative to ground than the positive from the diode?


this one i will not answer!
 
Just a hint:


Blocking diode!
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 11:07:24 am
Sebosfato, I'm waiting for core material to arrive.

Best thing to do is build it as Stan describes it in the patent.
You already know, it is difficult to understand how it works and how to build it.

I follow your 'theory' now it must be transformed into practice...

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 11:41:29 am
Nice hearing from you Webmug,


I'm now doing some calculations and trying to determine the parameters. http://ludens.cl/Electron/Magnet.html (http://ludens.cl/Electron/Magnet.html)


In this patent Meyer clearly have TX5 resonating with the container therefore i'm going to use reverse engineering to calculate.


For example for calculating oriented grain core to work at 5khz having a cross section of 0,0006m2 and limiting the saturation to 1,5T you would need 0,1 turn per volt. So if you have 200 volts max in the primary 20 turns is pretty much what you need for the primary probably having a tap every 5 turns would be good. The secondary in the patent meyer says that should be designed to have 2000volts thus 200 turns is good for that.


From what i'm thinking the resonant charging chokes, at least tx5 must be made with thicker wire such as the primary 24awg cause it will resonate and therefore there will be a recirculating current in it. In other patent Stan says 100 turns for the chokes, and i think is ok cause when resonance happens its voltage can get over 10kv and thus restrict the amps even being of lower number of turns than the secondary. This could be right if we are not interest in keeping the 5hkz as working frequency. This could be wrong. I'm thinking that Tx5 should have the right inductance to resonate with the cell, here my cell (container) have 330pf thus for 5khz this give me 3H. If so calculation should be made backwards.


I'm going to make some coils here rapidly so i can do some preliminary tests. I will use the (I) side only of the (EI) core as the core, cause i think the all core is too much. I can't wait to see this working!


I'm thinking that when the TX5 positive (b-) voltage is greater than the B+ voltage the amps will be restricted cause the diode wont allow the current to flow in the opposite direction. Therefore restricting the current. Is like biasing.


And if you think well the bifilar would have no problem cause between the water plates theres not going to be too much voltage, only in reference to the outside. I think that a 3kv insulation between the bifilar wires is more than enough and i think the coating of the wire already is rated for this, not sure..


One thing still takes my attention, with 3H needed i think that i will need to make 1000 turns for achieving this, witch would become too high voltage if the transformer was to be designed from the primary to the secondary in conventional way.


Thus maybe the primary and secondary should be designed to not even reach half of the saturation cause during the resonance the core will saturate already in my imagination.


I thought of going in the reverse direction.


I have 100ohm 3H 200ma 20kv 5khz so the primary should be 2mh if i'm coming from 12v... 


Than the secondary i think that 450mh would be ok and also for the other choke.


Is what i'm going to do now.


Thanks for the reply webmug.


Br
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 12:05:22 pm
My testing coils are as follows:
Prim. 850uH 1ohm 200wnd AWG23 (100ohm series resistor)
Sec. 150mH 46ohm 2000wnd AWG30
Pickup center tapped 2x 15mH 2x11ohm  2x500wnd AWG30
Choke1 150mH 46ohm 2000wnd AWG30
Choke2 150mH 46ohm 2000wnd AWG30

Copper wire insulation should sustain 2k5Volt.
Inductance depends on core material used (measured values are without core)
Going to try ferrite core ( UU core )

My wfc cell is insulated in delrin. Wires are fully insulated.

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 12:34:29 pm
Webmug what is your container capacitance? relative to the inner tube.
 
Wound a piece of aluminum foil on the outside of the container and measure the capacitance between the inside tube and outside of the container. Should be pretty much the same for the outer and the inner tube. but take the inner as the good one.


I think that having other tubes inside having way to switch would be good so we could change the capacitance i think, however i'm not very sure cause as water is also a conductor i'm not sure if the area of the capacitor in the inside is limited to the tube area..


This outside of the contained will be the ground you see in the VIC. Than you will have the resonant frequency from tx5 and the container.


I think that you should not use a 100 ohm resistor in series, if you work from 12v. This would be good if you work with 200v to limit the current and i think you should not get more than 30ohm... you must think about the voltage drop. if you have 100 ohms and you are using 100 volts and 1 amp flow you will have less than 1 volt going to the primary.   


I think that ferrite is ok, I will try also with that, as i have interchangeable coil formers.


Br
Fabio


Ps i'm now only winding the tx5 tx4 chokes to make some tests as i already had a coil former having 200turns with taps every 50 for the primary and another with 600 turns for the secondary...


And adjusting the core laminations number and or gap i think will be easy to find the right configuration to  achieve the resonance..

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 12:56:49 pm
wfc capacitance is 1.8nF
I don't follow the 'ground aluminum foil' theory... (not tested) capacitance will be between the inner rod and the outer tube.
Dielectric between them is water.

The 100 ohm resistor is used to switch the MOSFET. When I lower the resistor value I don't have 50-50 PULSE square waves.
Lowering to 30 ohm could be possible, but it depends on the coils.
I know my current going into the primary is too low. I wanted to use a transistor as a switch for the primary but I can make it work. Maybe you know a good driver circuit. TIP120 doesn't work...or I'm doing something wrong.

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 13:58:33 pm
I bought this new driver witch is called IR4427 seems very good, it is also easy to find, you can drive with only one mosfet or in half wave bridge mode.
(this has an inverting and a non inverting output)


you should have a 100 ohms resistor between the gate of the transistor and the driver output,  and a variable 5kohm variable between the gate and ground so you can adjust the mosfet transconductance (on resistance), to not simply turn it to maximum on. (controlling the current or input impedance)


Maybe simply adding a capacitor in parallel with tx5 will be fine, however i think that the electric fields in the water bath would benefit if the capacitor is actually the container. Even the self capacitance of the coil could get it to resonance but the frequency would be very very high.


By the container capacitance i mean that being the container a dielectric and water a conductor (also dielectric) ( and being inside), If you just provide another electrode around (outside of the container) you form a second capacitor. (simple kitchen aluminum foil). Than you have the capacitance of the tubes ok 1,8nf and that of the container that will be in the pico to nano faraday range depending on the volume of water and the size of the electrode around the container (virtual isolated ground). (i think that as water is conductive to a certain degree, the only thing that matter is the volume of water and the size of the outside electrode.


I'm using now irfp460 mosfets, but i'm also planning to use tip3055 cause is bipolar and faster thus..


I think that if we want the driver to drive a bipolar we should make it in stages, maybe first one having a 5kohm resistor between the driver and the base and thereon reducing gradually in the following stages to have the desired current. I think that this approach is far better than my irfp460 cause the speed of switching of this transistors.  I'm going to make everything modular so i can change things like power supply, the vic, the chokes...


In the vic impedance network you see that he show the coils having a capacitance in parallel with them, witch can represent interwinding capacitance but can also represent what i'm proposing cause giving his own words, electrical insulated housing...insulated ground..., and his drawing of the earth reference in the drawing in the patent only confirm where my guess is going. 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 15:36:04 pm
I was winding some coils here and just thought of something, If we just copy the vic like he described, we will never succeed cause the vic is matched to the cell or water bath. So the only way to go is to understand how to match the resonance for the specific cell each one has. i think that in sequence with the charging choke tx5 a variable coil can be added in series just to tune. This can be made with insertable core, or moving wiper. But I think that the bigger part of this inductance must be on the vic as to perform the amp restriction, pulse doubling, coherent voltage transformation...


Thus not only 100 turns 200 turns ... but his goals were important like in the patent where he say the secondary should be designed to have a maximum voltage of 2kv...

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 18:51:38 pm
The driver I now use is shown on the right (MOSFET drive)
The other one doesn't work, should work. I think it needs a drive transistor for more current from TTL chip.

Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 21:15:28 pm
After years of testing, i prefer a transistor and NOT a FET.
Fets sometimes create some kind of bouncing resonance and transistors dont in comby with coils etc....

Not sure how to explain this in a better way.... 8)
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2011, 17:21:23 pm
Yes i have the impression that bipolar is better.


Yesterday was my first lecture.


I learned that any field has energy!!! and that there is vacuum and empty witch are two different things, the vacuum is full of quarks and anti quarks and the empty is empty, but has a certain mass and energy even being empty.


I learned that a field has a weight cause energy weights. A charged capacitor is heavier than an uncharged one just because of the field.


Inside protons you have 3 quarks each quark has a mass of 1 and empty has a mass of 7 and the rest 90% of the weight of the proton is pure energy kinetic or potential.


If boson particle really exist all this is than is bull shit.   


Any way,


Meyer sai Mass destabilized atom this mean charged!!!


I keep thinking here and man i think the vic will be for real very soon.





Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2011, 19:07:41 pm
You are on the right path
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2011, 19:37:41 pm
Yes i have the impression that bipolar is better.


Yesterday was my first lecture.


I learned that any field has energy!!! and that there is vacuum and empty witch are two different things, the vacuum is full of quarks and anti quarks and the empty is empty, but has a certain mass and energy even being empty.


I learned that a field has a weight cause energy weights. A charged capacitor is heavier than an uncharged one just because of the field.


Inside protons you have 3 quarks each quark has a mass of 1 and empty has a mass of 7 and the rest 90% of the weight of the proton is pure energy kinetic or potential.


If boson particle really exist all this is than is bull shit.   


Any way,


Meyer sai Mass destabilized atom this mean charged!!!


I keep thinking here and man i think the vic will be for real very soon.

Hmmm, thank  you sir. You surely didnt sleep on your first day...
I never ever weight an empty capacitor and after charging weight again.
The difference must be in the micro grams?

About destabilizing atoms and what Stan teached us all, is about two things, as far as i understand the man.
One: a stable H2 molecule is one in the Para state.
        an unstable H2 molecule is one in the ortho state. Accoording to many publications, the ortho has a higher energy state.
        That would confirms what your professor said.

Two: ionizing ambient air, meaning take away electrons from the oxygen atom so it becomes unstable. Not sure if that ripped oxygen atom has more energy?

Fabio, are you sure that that is the case with a ripped molecule / atom? Is the ripped one going into a higher state because he wants to compensate for the missing electrons?
Would be great to learn that part!

Steve
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2011, 17:47:01 pm
MaN I'M REALLY exited, just came back 6:37am morning, many things happening...


My answer when i asked my teacher was, same as meyer  said. _Energy can become mass and mass can become energy... he said i truly tell you whenever you have a field you do have mass you do have field energy, every field weights! Energy have A mass!!! Even if is very small change (and anyone calculate that) you do have a change in weight.


This tell me a lot of things.-


He also said and intended;


When you have 2 oxygen atoms and 1 carbon atom, you have a certain energy but when you have CO2 molecule you have not only less energy but than thus also less mass!!!


 I'll be discussing that with them next week, to give us an answer. HE will be my teacher = )
 
they are 150 physicists in this institute all them professors and researchers in many fields in this physics institute...


I was very bored today cause i wanted to be at home experimenting, however in few minutes i knew the people of the student movement, (those who had worked out to finish the dictators in Brazil)


I'm now in the most important university, they really care about the people and i'm happy about that.


I now want to take this movement and add to this project and add this project to the movement to change the things like my friends in Egypt are doing. To have a better information in the university and a better world to live.


I think that having 40.000 people stoping the most important avenue in brazil for one week can really make a big difference.


Thanks Jim and ste...




MAn the Vic i've being analyzing all day. And i tell you if the resonance is not in the tx5 coil and it don't restrict the amps cause of resonance and the electrical isolated ground is not the outside of the container i would eat my shitt-.


WHen the tx5 coil is in resonance it will not only restrict the amps but will also double the frequency... cause when you are restricting amps you are charging the "container" but when the pulse ends the resonance make the current change the way and this wiill induce on the other coils another pulse- (doubling the frequency)


I think that here square waves should go to the input of the vic cause i didn't found yet a good reason for unipolar pulses. and i also found that would be easy to get the resonance signal cause as tx5 will be in resonance with the container, the pulse indicator could be at the same core ( facilitating things than) or could be a current transformer....


tomorrow i will still have no time but this goes to you that has a vic


do what i'm saying (makes a lot of sense), i bet you will succeed. I will too!!


just understand what i'm talking about isolated ground. The rest in evident... and you already might have a working vic!!!




big hug to all





Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2011, 19:18:29 pm
The fields interacts with gravity, thats why it weights. This is very complicated concept... hope i will know more about this in the future...


For now i can say.


Stan talked aways about the vic! so the vic must be very important part of technology.


all of us here might have a vic at home, so all i'm saying is, add a sheet of copper or aluminum around your water bath (plastic housing) than connect just where stan say is the isolated ground in the vic, also being the tx4 choke fields aiding with the secondary and tx5 field subtracting...


Now adjust the frequency to close to resonance and


You will see:


full wave rectification like effect (frequency doubling)


You will see one of the electrodes in the water becoming positive and negative in relation to the ground,


And the other electrode will reach a very high voltage,


between the electrodes there will be high voltage with the pulse style meyer showed




(who read knows, in one of stans patents he say that the resonant frequency depends on the volume of water in the bath)


why?


cause the bath is the capacitor!!!!







Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2011, 23:01:25 pm
Sebos,


Its logic that a molecule has less energy then seperated atoms.
Water is the left-over so to speak, of the burning of hydrogen and oxydizer oxygen.
The difference between them is the energy we use to run engines.
But would an atom with less electrons then normal, because it has been ionized, have more energy then a stable atom?

About Meyer, he stated that water was a part of the capacitor.....Water between the plates fo sure.
You think he used that watertank as capacitor? He grounded the tank? For the rest, ill go with the pics of the highly insulated tubes in delrin........Meaning that there is water between tubes and water between tubes and watertank.....

Hmmmmmm, he did mounted the tubes IN the watertank................
So his metal watertank casing MIGHT be the capacitor where Fabio is speaking of....
Ok, Fabio...you tiggle my mind with this. Need to think this over for a while......
Thank you! I like good food for the brain. :)

Steve



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2011, 00:14:38 am
You are starting to understand...


Yes water between two electrodes forms a capacitor, but water is a conductive thing so it will be an electrode too. I didn't meat the tank, i mean the water bath... The plexiglass will be the dielectric.  One of the electrodes is the water, the other is outside of the plexiglass. This outside will be the electrical insulated ground.


You must understand that water become the electrode. This is where meyer fooled every one-


I'm finishing here the vic... and i'm going to add a circuit to my pll to be able to gate the pulses for control, cause i think could be really dangerous.


I will use a microwave diode. on the vic...




 

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2011, 02:03:22 am
this what is what i mean,


Now my cell is nicer i used some lace to fix the thing and added a copper strip to get the connection.


I was thinking here and maybe i'm going to use the copper foil instead of this aluminum cause this way will conduct better.


This capacitor will have up to 5 amps recirculating ...


The greater the amps the greater the field. The thinner the plastic, the greater will be the field.


Man i'm really exited, before the weekend end my cell will be fully operating. i could finish this work tonight but have to go now and tomorrow will not have much time to work on it. I guess that sunday i will be ready.- when is working i will show you a video of it.


If it work, man!!! I will make a party that will never be forgotten.



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2011, 11:21:38 am
Sebosfato,
This I didn't see but it was shown in my own picture posted a long time ago.
You can see a cable hanging out of the side of the main cavity for the cavity's connections to VICs (wire bundle?) and in the fig.170 the GND symbol for one cavity it's the inner rod. Their must be at least 22 wires coming out of the main cavity, you think? ::)
When we look at the main cavity, we see no outside electrode. Only + and gnd?

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2011, 13:42:48 pm
Hi webmug,


well i guess there should be 23 wires being one the ground.




In the Fig. 170 the ground is connected to the inlet of the water, well i tried that not too much also but i think that he placed there to mislead everyone. Notice how this ground form a capacitance in relation to the positive and negative voltage zones!!!


I know in his cavity we see no ground, i believe that he hid it. Inside all that Delrin. The ground actually can be so hid that it can only be the way he used to fix the resonant cavity on the dune buggy. You need a capacitance and it will have whatever the way you make it.


I just understood something that happened to me in italy when i was doing some tests. .


I had a prototype witch you can see in my youtube channel, that was composed of steel tubes inside a plexyglass tube, and water was only inside the steel tube. There was also a bolt in the middle that was my center electrode.


I was performing some tests, and something really weird was happening. I had a full wave bridge rectifier connected to the 220v in the wall, and when i connected for example the positive to one of the electrodes on water, just one wire, nothing happens. Than i disconnected this one wire and connected the negative, again only one wire. The result is that every time i change the polarity, the electricity of my house goes completely down. I mean that i need to go to the panel and restart all the breakers.


That was really really weird, but now i understand exactly what was happening. And it is exactly related to what i'm saying here. Water as a dielectric liquid in is in a isolated bath will take on an electric charge. So when i was changing the wire (changing the polarity), even if not connecting the two wires at the same time to close the circuit, the accumulated charge in the water kind of discharge all in one in my house line collapsing it. 


Interesting hun


So water have a capacitance for its own. And will take on an electric charge if in an isolated place.


I think that this makes clear what i'm saying.


Tell me what you think.


 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2011, 15:17:40 pm
In the picture above, 170, the ground wire is connected to the bottom of the negative rod.The negative rod goes all the way from the top of the delrin to the bottom of the delrin.It's one piece,not three.Look at my drawing of the tubes to the right.
 
As for the wires to the resonance cavity,the wires going into the side are for the water level system.The tube connections would be at the bottom.They weren't hooked up.You have only one positive connection that hooks to every tube in parallel,and the ground connection for each tube set goes to a seperate cell driver circuit.So that means there's 11 grounds and one positive wire going to the cell for a total of 12 wires,and not 23.Remeber the ground wire is the pulsed wire.
 
But for this cell there was only ten tube set used.
Don
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2011, 16:28:28 pm

Dynodon,

Thanks for pointing that. The reason of the positive being only one wire is now evident from my explanation. The positive will be static, thus all tubes can share it. Since i said that the "negative" tube will be in resonance therefore having AC, they need to have every one its own vic negative connection.


Everything matches you see.


The isolated ground like i said could be the own mounting of the resonant cavity. To keep it secret. So 12 + 1 wires. I mean the means to fix the thing in the car..


So again just to let very clear. The voltage zones are positive and AC and than you have a electrical ground reference that forms the resonant capacitor that generate the double pulse, restricts the amps together with the tuned coil.


Thanks a lot Man.




I decided that this was more important than what i had to do today so i'm going to work on this all the day long , i'm just fixing my multimeter to be able to do some readings. 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2011, 00:44:36 am
sebooooooo

I took and wrapped my  acrylic cell in tinfoil tightly and connected it to my negative plate and negative at the bridge rectifier.  Gas production was a thousand times more.

btw,  Connecting directly to a distant grounded water pipe made a gas producing circuit through the OFF variac.  interesting, I may have to run a tranny before the variac to get separation.

I'll be following you closely...  good luck
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2011, 01:41:05 am
Nice man, if you can make a video for us... I'm finishing here the vic, i'm just finishing the pulsing circuit with the gate... just need to overcome little troubles.,.. Tomorrow everything will change!





Did you used the chokes connected the way i said? Did the pulse double its frequency?


Thanks!!!
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2011, 02:46:26 am
for grins I made up three gallon size leyden jars and connected them all in parallel with the pos and neg plate...  another oscope probe shot in the butt for my effort, voltages easily in excess of 2kv

the mosfet stays cold to the touch...   having fun now

I don't run chokes at this time.   Just my iron powder EI core with a 100 feet of 20 gauge wrapped over about 2 feet or so, I don't recall, but one level across the bobbin of 16 awg.   I run the diode on the 20 gauge side before the coil.  It is in the 8xa circuit layout.  The bobbin is a typical magnetic wire plastic thing you get from the store. 

 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2011, 04:50:06 am
In the picture above, 170, the ground wire is connected to the bottom of the negative rod.The negative rod goes all the way from the top of the delrin to the bottom of the delrin.It's one piece,not three.Look at my drawing of the tubes to the right.
 
As for the wires to the resonance cavity,the wires going into the side are for the water level system.The tube connections would be at the bottom.They weren't hooked up.You have only one positive connection that hooks to every tube in parallel,and the ground connection for each tube set goes to a seperate cell driver circuit.So that means there's 11 grounds and one positive wire going to the cell for a total of 12 wires,and not 23.Remeber the ground wire is the pulsed wire.
 
But for this cell there was only ten tube set used.
Don


curious
are you saying the positive wire from each of the 10 vics were all connected together?
why would he do that?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2011, 12:28:13 pm
HEllo Donald,


He can do that cause all the positive zones are static in relation to the isolated ground, the "negative" voltage zone witch continually flips polarity in resonance than must have each one its own coil connection. Also as the connections are all in the same wire (for the positive) means nothing but there will only be DC current in this wire so no problem mixing frequencies or anything related...  Also could even help!


Water is or become part of the positive electrode.


The cell will have a positive_positive repelling than negative_ positive attracting fields acting intercalating.   


Again isolated ground not only become a reference but forms the resonant cavity capacitance.


I thought a way, that instead of making rolling a copper foil around the cell, you could wound copper wire and make of this coil part of the resonating coil, to impart also some magnetic fields to the water too. just a thought...


I'm finishing my VIC, i used Oriented grain laminations, I cores arranged to form a closed core. I than had an idea that Cd covers are made of acrylic, than i thought, why not to destroy all my cd covers to have a nice insulation under the vic and cell... =)


cheap way to get some plastic. 




I'm finishing everything here, later i will post a video of my lab showing you the all thing operating. hope so.




Would be good to use delrin for the cell or polypropylene cause would make the process even better.


(coming back to the experiment i told you in italy, the only ground of the cell was the real ground under the plexiglass, incredible isn't it?


So what i want to mean is that even if you just place your cell in the garden on the soil ad you make of the earth your "electrical insulated" ground, it means that you already have a capacitor.  Cool isn't it?


Well meyer showed his cell running the buggy and it was sitting in the soil wasn't it?


food for thought
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2011, 22:28:57 pm
Hello,


I finished my prototype and did the first run, but i blowed 1 fuse and 1 mosfet.. all i can can say is that no bubbles came off. The frequency range that i have the 27khz here is not working, i need to make a capacitor appropriated cause i'm not going out today to buy a capacitor. 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2011, 14:52:41 pm
Well this is the thing i'm working on. In this file you find the video showing the wave form in the gate of the mosfet, and a video showing the prototype. I mounted everything in the top case of my technics turntables, and you see in it, a variac, a transformer that is the power supply of the pulsing circuit, the pulsing circuit the gate circuit, the VIC and the cell and a crap but the only last multimeter. You see in the table also my lcr meter. Sorry for the video and pics quality, my cell phone has not a good camera and i don't have other. 


I have just wake up, and i'm going to work another 3 days without sleep again if necessary to finish this. =)


I slept over it while i was trying to add something to protect the mosfet.


I'm going to add a 1kohm resistor connecting the drain to the source, and also a 100nf cap i also have a diode in series with the mosfet.


I hope someone can give a hint here on how to make the circuit more stable and un-burnable.


Also in the pulsing waveform video you see that sometimes the logic remains high after the pulse so the mosfet maybe is not turning off, I don't know if is true or if is a problem of the pc scope visualization...


My pulsing circuit is pretty much the same in the patent. I was thinking to add a 10kohm resistor from pin 5 of the pll to positive but don't know if would help much. .


Well check this out!




Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2011, 15:22:19 pm
I think that i'm going to add the resonant feed back circuit, and i will also connect another coil in series with the TX5 so i can reduce the resonant frequency since my circuit seems to not working very well at high frequency, (not sure if is not the oscilloscope that is not able to measure well)
anyway i will use a coil in a flyback core... In this flyback core i will provide another winding that will be the feedback... I will do this cause i think will be a purer signal of the resonance.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2011, 14:32:42 pm


Just though of something, if i add a resistor between the ground and the source of the mosfet whenever the current raise there will be a voltage developed across the resistor therefore the voltage at the gate in relation to the drain will be automatically reduced. Now i just need to calculate the ideal resistor to acomplish this. I also added a diode in series with the mosfet that resisted the breakdown its rated 1200v 30 amps ultra fast.


I will also add a uf4007 diode in antiparallel with the 100ohms resistor that sits between the gate and the driver, i'm currently using tc4429 driver..
This will provide a faster turn off time. I also have a 1kohm wire wound precision 10 turn variable resistor between the gate and the ground, this form a voltage divider that i use to just input the right voltage at the mosfet to control the current rise.

I'm thinking about adding also a diode between the ground and the gate in just in case to prevent the voltage to not become negative i relation to the ground, this can turn on the mosfets again so i want to prevent this. I may want to use a diode with low voltage drop maybe germanium..




Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2011, 21:06:55 pm

Now the circuit works nicer, i added a 2 ohm resistor in series with the mosfet between source and ground. I added a diode in antiparallel with the 100 ohms resistor between the gate and the driver. I added a diode between drain and gate in parallel with the 1kohm variable resistor, and i added a 1khm resistor and a 100nf capacitor between the drain and source.


Obs the 1k resistor is 5 watts and works really hot, i'm thinking about using a bigger value resistor.


The noize of the vic is now very clear. no more false triggering..


Now i just need to hook up the feedback and tune into the resonance.


I'm going to add a variable inductance that i will vary turning a bolt to insert or take out the core of it, i made a very nice design. = )


Now university


Tomorrow never knows.


I think the thing is going to work.


i just think that i need gate generator that is more stable. I will try making it more solid. Any good diagram? Does anyone ever understood stan diagrams for the gate circuit?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2011, 04:48:24 am
I found here a schematic that use the same components i used for the gate circuit that i'm using but is a bit different... It also provide the calculation for the frequency... I will post both schematics here the first one is the new one i'm going to try!


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2011, 14:15:29 pm
Its really sad to come here and share all this and stay here talking alone. Seems to me like every one reads and download my theories but wont show any interest in help in anyway before the thing works..


If i was rude or anything else along my posts i'm sorry for that, probably is a misinterpretation cause i didn't mean to be, english is not my mother tong.
I say this cause in the past in other forums also people tend to think that i'm a kind of stupid person but i'm not, maybe i just don't communicate the way i was wishing...




Please come here, ask questions, comment, tell me what you think, criticizes, discuss, i'm here for that...


Fight for your ideas, you are the only one that can defend your self... 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2011, 15:51:58 pm
Sebo,

You are fine.  Don't take the silence so personal.  I've used the 555/393 circuit that you show.  I use two and have one gate the pulse stream from the first using a 4046 circuit with mosfet driver.  I've found using a mosfet driver solves a lot of problems at the switch.

I'm still playing the tinfoil angle.  I have three large gallon size leyden jars connected in parallel to the tinfoil covered plastic cell jar.  The negative and positive leads connect in parallel to each and the cell.  However, I'm reaching voltages now that are frying my bridge rectifier even a 1000v one.  Feedback to it may be the cause but I don't know.

I just bought a $40 stm32 controller with touch screen and GUI on ebay to move beyond the timers for switching.  I started to do this meyer thing a couple of years ago to learn simple electronics components and now want to move up so to speak.  I'm starting to think that very fine and stable control of the switching circuit is quite important.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2011, 16:37:54 pm

Hi kickbackemf, thanks for reply..

I think so too, we need very stable frequency to be able to maintain resonance. I already done work on that couple of years ago, and i could maintain resonance in the kilowatts range with low input power using the same kind circuit even not using the feedback circuit...  i'm not sure what is happening here, but i guess that today or the next days i will get on that again... I think that the coupling of the resonant choke with the core is too big and or my primary is too small... Actually in the past i never achieved resonance all in the same core... But probably is possible..


You should use higher rating diodes with high speed and higher amp ratings cause when the pulse is to short the current become too big...


In the past i made the resonance in a separated coil driven in parallel with high voltage and low amperage so not in the input transformer witch become than an easier task... So i'm going to add a coil in series with tx5 1° to lower the resonant frequency, and 2° to decouple the resonance from the primary a bit... I will put two coils in this core one for the positive and one for the negative... so the resonance can still induce voltage in the other side of the circuit... I think that the primary must have a higher impedance in the case we want the vic to resonate cause otherwise the pulses kill the resonance, by changing the core inductance too much...


I think that if i had a bigger cell would be easier cause the frequency would also be smaller..

This is the adjustable tune coil core that i'm going to use...  I used some springs i had here and a paper box that i make harder adding some wood glue... I'm finishing it just need to find a nice bolt...






Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2011, 17:04:52 pm
I just bought a $40 stm32 controller with touch screen and GUI on ebay to move beyond the timers for switching.  I started to do this meyer thing a couple of years ago to learn simple electronics components and now want to move up so to speak.  I'm starting to think that very fine and stable control of the switching circuit is quite important.
Nice, I use a STM32-103STK for Pulse and Gate signals.
Would be great to implement a SPLL (software PLL 4046 chip)  8)

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2011, 18:29:51 pm
I don't really think is needed to start with this, is very basic and simple the electronics that we need for making the resonant scanning circuit, the feedback and to tune the pll if analogical... Just need some practice...


We should simplify.


But if you're sure hope it works well for you guys..



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2011, 22:01:07 pm
Sebo, Webmug,   I'll be learning the stm32 as I play with timers.  It was so cheap for a cool computer on a chip that I couldn't refuse.

fyi...

I just put an ultrafast diode between the mosfet driver and the mosfet gate and have eliminated the signal feedback and produced a nice clean square wave without interaction with the HV pulses.  should have thought of this before....  really cleaned things up
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 04:12:20 am
But how can the mosfet driver discharge the gate of the mosfet with the diode there between?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 04:52:27 am
I found more issues in my pulsing circuit that tried to solve, one of them was the some fast connectors to change the capacitance easily, it was not soldered anymore, bad idea, so i just soldered two pieces of wire and soldered the capacitor i built for the pll 350pf made of polipropilene, i made it and work very well... =)


I now have the hope that adding that coil in the circuit i will achieve the resonance i want...


I will have two chokes in that variable gap core style, one made of 28awg and the other made of 24awg The last will be in series with tx5 and the other in series with tx4, i will also have tx3 in this separated core, witch will be my feedback coil. 






Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 05:00:13 am
hello sebosfato
 
i've been following this topic since you started it. I really like your theory and I cant stop thinking about it. I Have a few questions, How would you propose the circuit resonantes? basicly i'm asking which chokes would resonate with which capacitor?
I did some simulations and it seems like the circuit would resonante on the negative side if there is also a ground before the negative choke as stan shows in his circuits. Thanks for all the info so far. I hope to here of your results soon.
 
Dave
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 10:12:16 am
Helo Dave,



When stan showed the two coils being one adjustable and the other not adjustable, and called both resonant charging chokes, but one of them he also called tuned choke, this would mean that the coil 62 or tx5 must form a resonant tank...basically the coil that is in reverse direction, will only resonate if with the cell capacitance in relation to the ground so connecting the ground to the base of the tuned choke is the only requisite to make of it a tuned coil or clearly speaking a resonant tank.


The capacitance will be that of the cell casing not between the tubes therefore i would recommend incrementing this capacitance, to be easier to achieve the resonance, however if you add a capacitors in parallel instead of maximizing this capacitance, you will not have all the field on the water...


This capacitance will be relative from the inner tube therefore where the tuned coil is connected, and the outside of the acrylic housing so when you add a conductor around the cell thereto you increase the capacitance....


So basically that all...   


$ 1 5.0E-6 0.7389056098930651 45 5.0 43
c 688 368 688 272 0 1.0E-8 894.0930888253006
r 768 272 768 192 0 10000.0
c 688 192 688 272 0 1.0000000000000001E-7 -85.1028883763214
w 544 368 688 272 0
w 768 272 688 272 0
w 544 368 624 464 0
T 368 208 496 368 0 4.0 10.0 1.5481661429245648 -0.15499942621867285 0.999
v 368 208 368 368 0 2 2500.0 5.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
T 544 192 688 368 0 1.0 1.0 0.1549994262188145 -0.1048804806872442 0.99
w 768 192 688 192 0
w 496 368 528 464 0
d 496 208 544 192 1 0.805904783
s 528 464 624 464 0 0 true
o 0 1 0 299 2394.524282602951 0.37414441915671115 0 -1
o 2 1 0 43 320.0 0.4 1 -1
o 7 1 1 291 40.0 9.765625E-5 2 -1
o 12 1 0 291 7.62939453125E-5 0.4 3 -1


here you see why the dielectric proprieties are important in the right you see the tx5... everything is connected like should be the vic. Notice how tx5 close the resonant tank...


well i'm here work, hope soon i can show what i'm talking about...


Br
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 11:32:38 am
I was testing my circuit re-soldering here and there and i found that i was doing something wrong, basically the tc4429 mosfet driver is an inverting driver so the signal that is going correct in it is getting inverted, so i'm going to use one of the nor gates for inverting the signal than everything will be fine... This was completely killing the resonance cause the transformer remained on where should be off. 


Also i think that i will change the water here again so it will be a higher impedance load for the tank, helping the resonance to show up...




Now that i'm getting good in not burning components i think that i should construct the pll system with the high speed components. HTC. This will allow for a greater precision... I will do it in the fast prototype board so i don't lose much time... I will use htc 7046 cause i think i still have one here and will use high speed nor gates too.
 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 21:52:38 pm
Sebos and Kickback and others,

Sorry for the silence from my part here, but my job claims most of my time.
The time left, i spend on the IT part of keeping this forum away from many attacks.
This weekend, i have planned to start with alu foil wrapping around my Meyer tubecell.

Keep up the great work!

Steve
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 01:03:16 am
sebosfato
 
thanks for the explination
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 04:03:30 am
You're welcome Dave.


Nice Steve,


Hope they go well for you i wish you luck...


Do you remember you first tried my pll schematic?


Is pretty much the same thing.. but now is not only one coil single resonating, its about now a loaded resonant tank but the load is actually only magnetically coupled...


I would like to explain here again the following.


Resonance


What is resonance?


Resonance is an event that happen at a particular frequency witch the system tends to absorb all the energy, or maximum transfer of power..


The fact is that if a system have a quality factor greater than 1 it has the ability to store more energy than it can dissipate in the same cycle.


So if the Q factor is 10 and you input 10 watts this means exactly that the resonant tank will have 100 watts accumulated (potential energy) in it and also that it is dissipating 10 watts as heat in the resistances, being this the load it self or the series resistance of the wires and the parallel resistance of the capacitor. Normally you can consider the Q factor as the inductive reactance divided by the series resistance. Of course if you have a load magnetically coupled for example you will transfer this power without dissipating but still interfere in the Q factor. 


So basically i'm saying that stan used a parallel resonance electrically connected in series but magnetically coupled in parallel in counter phase, 180° therefore he created a high impedance electrical path that allow the voltage to become very high, as the resonance flips the polarity, the magnetic flux of the discharge of the resonance capacitor, will generate a second pulse in the secondary and the charging choke doubling therefore the frequency as required for it to work (stans words).


I'm still thinking how the other coil would be resonating but i think its only the receiver coil. Obviously it will help or aid the field of the other coil resonance when the current of the pulses are being applied to the water... Whatever.. there is many things happening all at the same time, but the principals are that it accumulates more energy than dissipate per cycle (step charging effect) and frequency doubling that creates the unipolar pulses...


Its also clear than the feedback to maintain the resonance with the pll, there is a ac resonance.


I'm finishing the things here i'm charging my battery so i can do some more tests until i go buy some more fuses for the variac...


I spent the day buiding on the fastprotoboard the high speed circuit consisting of hct7046 pll that i had since 2 years and i hold for this moment, it has the lock indicator build in. I will use also the sn74hc02 that is a high speed nor gate, i'm thinking about cause it seems to be ttl and i'm not sure if there is any problem, but anyway will start with that...


For the feedback i will use a lm741 or 411 i will check those cause i already have here but i'm not sure if is burned.. so i need to test them...


The driver is the ir4427 non inverting... and wil work at 12v


the rest of the circuit will work at 5v cause is a requirement of this high speed ICs...


The Hct7046 can go in the megaherts ...


I'm doing this with the intention to understand why i'm not able to drive the mosfet at high frequencies.


I think that the problem is the driver in the circuit tc4429 cause there still signal in the input side of it but at those frequencies and beyond nothing comes out of it...


I think that maybe the diodes could be the problem... I will double check that... anyway. 


I think that really soon i will solve all the problems.


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 04:53:17 am
all this tell me that if i add a coil in series with the coil that should be resonating in the vic, i can control the coupling to a certain degree of the resonance tank to the load in the tank. I think that anyway if you make a closed loop core will certainly help improve the coupling so increasing the load and diminishing the Q of the resonance. For example if water has a high resistance (pure water) the load in the tank will be smaller..


Thats why i build that coil with variable core gap. with the gap closed the resonant coil there is 104mh and with only air is 3,6mh... about 4ohms 


there is also another coil that i'm going to add serially also with the tx4 choke..


So now i'm going to have a lower frequency, and more room for energy...


I bet this will work already. When i add the feedback signal than... it will work very well..


Is incredible the precision of the circuit that meyer provided with those nor gates and the inhibit pin 5 of the pll for controlling the number of the pulses, it stills impacting me.   


Hope you understood guys.. this is what i'm working for.


I respect different ideas, but i hope to be correct according to my knowledge acquired with lots of experimentations with coils and capacitors in the last years... unfortunately i don't have any nice equipment for measuring the voltage and see the waveforms well but i guess that for me this will not be a limitation but a challenge = ).


Wish i could repair my nice multimeter, the numbers don't show up anymore... there is something wrong... Now only after carnival... next friday i will have Lab lecture, so i will have the chance to ask for some equipments or at least if i can go there during the day to use the equipments there.


I just want multimeters with frequency meters and an oscilloscope. I saw there, there was like 100 oscilloscopes in a room ... hehe


I'm very happy to be in the university i think this gave me all this clarity of mind to be able to arrive at this conclusion.




Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 05:08:15 am
Seb

Is the code you shared in the above post supposed to be copied and pasted into the circuit simulator to view?  I am learning so I ask sometimes obvious questions.

kb
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 05:16:46 am
Yes exactly that. You just need to import that code to the circuit simulator (copy paste). the capacitance with the resistance in parallel is the tubes capacitance... the other is the resonant capacitor.


sebosfato
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 08:01:14 am
Sebo,

thanks, that's is what I thought but my browser is not letting it happen..... yet

about the overunity page, yep that is the waveform I see, just that it caught my eye in a related article about shorting coils...  similar- you would agree?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 16:05:42 pm
I wanted to help you all understanding the pll vic i'm working on so here it is. So like they say in the university i used my time to produce knowledge.


The Tx5 or Tx4 is not only limited to those in the transformer so can be added also serially.


The feedback could be a current transformer coupled capturing the recirculating current or could be a coil in the same transformer or yet in the series added coil core... 


KB,


You could try downloading the simulator so you can run without the browser... 


Not sure about the waveform.. Is not what i see here... I think that the waveform you see when the coil is shorted is only the LR damped oscillation according to the respective time constant... not sure.-
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 16:27:55 pm
Just found this, webmug, and Kb, http://www.fujitsu.com/downloads/MICRO/fma/pdf/PLLapp.pdf


They have an evaluation for pll controlled by computer and software..  check this out...


http://www.fujitsu.com/global/services/microelectronics/product/assp/pll/
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 17:11:08 pm
Hello kali,


There is difference between Vcc and Vdd and Vee? in the patent meyer use the three, i would like to know if means only three voltage sources of different voltages or if there is another reason for the different names..


Thanks man
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 17:31:01 pm
I wanted to help you all understanding the pll vic i'm working on so here it is. So like they say in the university i used my time to produce knowledge.


The Tx5 or Tx4 is not only limited to those in the transformer so can be added also serially.


The feedback could be a current transformer coupled capturing the recirculating current or could be a coil in the same transformer or yet in the series added coil core... 


KB,


You could try downloading the simulator so you can run without the browser... 


Not sure about the waveform.. Is not what i see here... I think that the waveform you see when the coil is shorted is only the LR damped oscillation according to the respective time constant... not sure.-
Sebosfato, you left out the "Resonant Scanner Circuit" and the (internal) lock feedback from the PLL. It doesn't scan frequency up and down in your PLL bandwidth range (R1 and R2)?
So it wouldn't go to lock with the Pickup coil above max. or below min. frequency just like Stan his circuit.

But, I could be wrong and you are just making your own design.

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 17:48:12 pm
I think that the resonant scanning circuit is not very very necessary since also in stans design there was the manual scanning, and so as the lock in, as it was used as a logic stage to implement the resonant scanning circuit.


I know this pll will work cause is the same i used in the past for my resonance experiments and when you adjust the knob to the resonant frequency you can actually turn of the circuit and turn on and you will see that the circuit get into resonance automatically.


You can see this in my youtube channel. in the power video.. Is the same circuit but have some improvements now...

The pll senses the frequency and adjust automatically the frequency if it is in the lock range, so basically you need to adjust the lock range so it is able to lock to the resonance. Usually the center frequency should be the resonant frequency so the lock vary in higher or lower frequency depending of the variation of the resonance frequency...


I don't remember well now but i think that R2 define the lock min frequency, and R1 the max frequency so if you adjust the R2 you will change the center frequency...


Of course when we achieve the resonance we can tune the pll to improve its performance...


I think that the resonant scanning circuit is just to speed up the lock in.. Normally this min time  to lock would depend on the filter design, but if you disconnect the filter like the scanning circuit thru the logic of the lock indicator do, you are able to get around this min time, thats why i think stan implemented the resonant scanning. I think that he used a relatively big capacitor for the filter to ensure stability of the resonance what would makes this lock in time to be very big, for a practical use like in an automobile, for testing is not necessary. I believe...

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 18:08:14 pm
I forgot to add the series diode from the primary to the drain of the mosfet... 1200v 30 amps ultra fast is ok, but higher amp rating would be better.


!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: circuit sim help
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 04, 2011, 16:22:17 pm
Hi Sebo, others  help help

I'm having trouble pasting your code into the circuit simulator.  Is there a way to do it that is clear to understand.  The paste option does not highlight for use.  Maybe I could use a desktop  circuit simulator.  Is there one your recommend?  I use linux.

kb
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 04, 2011, 16:33:58 pm
In linux i'm not sure... cant you run like wine or something to run windows programs ?


Normally with this circuit simulator you should go to File/ import


but try this link maybe works
 http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+5.0E-6+0.7389056098930651+45+5.0+43%0Ac+464+272+464+176+0+1.0E-8+-1279.5876802217956%0Ar+544+176+544+96+0+10000.0%0Ac+464+96+464+176+0+1.0000000000000001E-7+127.93427837504532%0Aw+320+272+464+176+0%0Aw+544+176+464+176+0%0Aw+320+272+400+368+0%0AT+144+112+272+272+0+4.0+10.0+1.427991850804225+-0.142939937517941+0.999%0Av+144+112+144+272+0+2+2500.0+5.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AT+320+96+464+272+0+1.0+1.0+0.14293993751645795+-0.010527332189837674+0.99%0Aw+544+96+464+96+0%0Aw+272+272+304+368+0%0Ad+272+112+320+96+1+0.805904783%0As+304+368+400+368+0+0+true%0Ao+0+1+0+299+2394.524282602951+0.37414441915671115+0+-1%0Ao+2+1+0+43+320.0+0.4+1+-1%0Ao+7+1+1+291+40.0+9.765625E-5+2+-1%0A
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 04, 2011, 16:57:47 pm
Seb'

worked like a charm.. thanks for your quick reply, you are a solid resource....  much obliged partner
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 04, 2011, 19:02:05 pm




You are welcome KB.. What did yuo thought about the simulation... did you understood?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 04, 2011, 20:51:20 pm
That simulation is wrong... it only demonstrate resonance...


this is exactly what will happen: check this out


 http://www.falstad.com/circuit/#%24+1+6.3E-7+0.7389056098930651+45+5.0+43%0Ac+480+272+480+192+0+1.0E-9+745.0834336731613%0Ar+560+192+560+128+0+10000.0%0Ac+480+128+480+192+0+1.0E-8+400.22352878541653%0Aw+560+192+480+192+0%0Aw+480+272+368+368+0%0AT+112+112+240+272+0+0.1+10.0+0.01759136373751969+-0.0032564508825816884+0.99%0Av+112+112+112+272+0+2+25230.0+50.0+0.0+0.0+0.5%0AT+288+96+432+272+0+0.1+1.0+0.0032564508825986063+0.1329895631964313+0.99%0Aw+240+272+272+368+0%0As+272+368+368+368+0+0+true%0Ar+608+128+608+272+0+1.0E8%0Aw+480+272+608+272+0%0Aw+288+272+288+128+1%0Aw+432+96+432+192+0%0Ad+240+112+288+96+1+0.805904783%0Aw+480+128+560+128+0%0Aw+560+128+608+128+0%0Aw+432+272+480+272+0%0Aw+432+192+480+192+0%0Aw+288+128+480+128+0%0Ao+0+1+0+299+2394.524282602951+0.37414441915671115+0+-1%0Ao+2+1+0+43+640.0+0.1+1+-1%0Ao+6+1+1+291+80.0+9.765625E-5+2+-1%0Ao+10+1+0+43+2560.0+9.765625E-5+3+-1%0A
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 05, 2011, 04:19:38 am


Wish you all a good weekend and week. See ya..


$ 1 6.3E-7 0.7389056098930651 45 5.0 43
c 464 272 464 192 0 3.0E-10 725.106545679423
r 544 192 544 128 0 10000.0
c 464 128 464 192 0 2.0E-9 501.23298068701894
w 544 192 464 192 0
w 464 272 352 368 0
T 96 112 224 272 0 0.02 5.0 -0.3363872715023655 -0.07924727299947679 0.9
v 96 112 96 272 0 2 5150.0 100.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
T 272 96 416 272 0 0.2 1.0 -0.07924727298629879 0.0185840956887011 0.9
w 224 272 256 368 0
s 256 368 352 368 0 0 true
r 592 128 592 272 0 1.0E8
w 464 272 592 272 0
w 272 96 272 128 1
w 416 96 416 192 0
d 224 112 272 272 1 0.805904783
w 464 128 544 128 0
w 544 128 592 128 0
w 416 272 464 272 0
w 416 192 464 192 0
w 272 128 464 128 0
r 272 128 272 272 0 5.0E13
g 464 336 464 368 0
r 464 336 464 272 0 1000000.0
o 0 1 0 299 2394.524282602951 0.09353610478917779 0 -1
o 2 1 0 299 640.0 0.05 1 -1
o 6 1 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 2 -1
o 10 1 0 299 5120.0 9.765625E-5 3 -1
o 20 1 0 291 2560.0 9.765625E-5 4 -1



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 05, 2011, 13:21:46 pm


Wish you all a good weekend and week. See ya..


$ 1 6.3E-7 0.7389056098930651 45 5.0 43
c 464 272 464 192 0 3.0E-10 725.106545679423
r 544 192 544 128 0 10000.0
c 464 128 464 192 0 2.0E-9 501.23298068701894
w 544 192 464 192 0
w 464 272 352 368 0
T 96 112 224 272 0 0.02 5.0 -0.3363872715023655 -0.07924727299947679 0.9
v 96 112 96 272 0 2 5150.0 100.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
T 272 96 416 272 0 0.2 1.0 -0.07924727298629879 0.0185840956887011 0.9
w 224 272 256 368 0
s 256 368 352 368 0 0 true
r 592 128 592 272 0 1.0E8
w 464 272 592 272 0
w 272 96 272 128 1
w 416 96 416 192 0
d 224 112 272 272 1 0.805904783
w 464 128 544 128 0
w 544 128 592 128 0
w 416 272 464 272 0
w 416 192 464 192 0
w 272 128 464 128 0
r 272 128 272 272 0 5.0E13
g 464 336 464 368 0
r 464 336 464 272 0 1000000.0
o 0 1 0 299 2394.524282602951 0.09353610478917779 0 -1
o 2 1 0 299 640.0 0.05 1 -1
o 6 1 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 2 -1
o 10 1 0 299 5120.0 9.765625E-5 3 -1
o 20 1 0 291 2560.0 9.765625E-5 4 -1





Same, Sebosfato!

Thanks for all the info   :)


Steve
Title: What we should know about logic IC's
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 05, 2011, 20:37:54 pm
You're welcome bro.


I would like to explain some differences between TTL Ic's (those witch stan used) and CMOS IC's..


TTL IC's are very fast, they can work up to 35MHZ, being them normally composed of bipolar transistors this explain the high speed but at the same time the big hungry for power to work. Also the old ic's had open collector configuration, witch allows the used to select the proper pull up resistor for the application.


CMOS IC's (4000, 4500) series are very economic (energy consumption) cause they are based on mosfet, they don't need pull up resistors... But they are very slow compared to TTL, up to 30 times slower.


High speed CMOS (74HCXX) this have a good speed and are very economic (energy consumption), this is what i'm going to use from now.


H stands for high frequency


I'm going to use the following IC's in my new prototype,


74HCT7046 PLL 5v (This IC have the lock in build in, you just need to add a capacitor and led for it to detect the difference in phases you accept to tell you if is locked in...


Than high speed nor gates SN74HC02N 5V


Than for the resonant feedback circuit


LM741 or CA3140  or LF411 cause i already have here...


ANd i will use the ir4427 as the driver...


I will probably try using bipolar transistors for the drive stage but as worked already previously i'm going to use the irfp460 before.




Close to every IC you need to put a 47uF and 100nF capacitors to filter noize..


I still don't know what counters i will use... I still have some sn74ls90n but i'm not sure if they are not burned...


Anyway i think that i will try to find some from the 74hct series...


http://www.piclist.com/techref/logic/xtrapins.htm


http://www.fatter-keine.dk/electronics/toolbox/lookuptables/logic.html


http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/components/74series.htm
 




Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 06, 2011, 02:39:04 am
I'm here working on the new circuit.  :o  since this morning...
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2011, 22:31:07 pm


Now i'm finishing the assembly in the project...


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 00:28:24 am
Sebo,


nice waveforms, we've all seen them, however........


pudding time, as in proof..........   any more gas?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 02:22:18 am
Just wanted to show you, the circuit stability now, the fast prototype board is ok the problem i was having was with a potentiometer...


all the chips are running at 5v excluding the driver witch is running at 12v...


I didn't finished the pulse indicator yet, now i'm going to perform some tests and when i have the transformer working i will than regulate the feedback....


I made some modifications on the schematics..


I'm using the lm741, the ca3040 is good also but for having 100% duty cycle the potentiometer and resistors must be rethink. Anyway is good also cause you can regulate better in higher frequencies..


ANyway i'm using the 741 cause it give me full range and i didn't had any 339 or 393 available...


The wave form i presented mean that i learned how to mix up the signals using the nor gates and the inhibit pin. Now I can select the number of pulses that go in each burst and the frequency and duration of the bursts... All this being this pulses in direct response to the antenna so being able to catch up any signal and follow it automatically sustaining the resonance.


As you can see now i have a mean to measure the frequency, i'm using a program called visual analyzer, and a netbook i had here.. As the computer is new the oscilloscope now works much better than in the other old shitty computer... 


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 04:03:37 am
Seb,
Yeah I know, I was just breaking your chops out of frustration.  I wish you all the success and will be following along...


your frequency meter is a nice touch.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 04:29:09 am
Thanks for the energy input bro.


I'm finishing the connections here... last touches.


I repaired an old yellow multimeter i had here, so now i have two bad multimeters to measure too =)


I will add a 1kohm resistor across the primary.. .


Also i have a diode in series with the mosfet between the primary and the mosfet.


I think now is a question of hours...
 ;) ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 11:41:42 am
Almost ready to put it to work, oh boy much anxiety. Just woke up, cause today is gonna be a big day.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 15:28:38 pm



Did some tests, the circuit now is not working, it is singing =)

Unfortunately i'm not able to measure many things the multimeters i have are so bad that even the voltage in the tx5 coil i'm not able to measure, i think the high frequency mess around with the numbers and they keep oscillating   from 1v to 25 to 58 back to 1... I'm only controlling the amperage input even that goes crazy some times but i'm keeping under 2 amps cause my variac is 0 .- 250v 2 amps rated... The mosfet is getting hot at higher voltages. I added a 1kohm resistor across the primary... I thinking about taking the capacitor i added between the drain and source...not sure.. 

The circuit works very nicely anyway, and it works by subtracting pulses without changing the frequency, is very interesting the sounds that come out of it. I was able to drive it in harmonics of the line frequency and the sound was nice too.

The circuit is working pretty stable as i told you... Hope to make it sing today.

i think that the capacitance is too small thats why is being a bit hard to resonate...

In my resonance experiments i used to use >1mh coil and capacitors like more than 30nf   this capacitance 300pf complicate the things... I think that if i had a big cell with more water and tubes inside the capacitance would be bigger and would be easier to resonate. I thinking about buying an acrylic tube but is very expensive here and i don't know yet where to find...

Now is all about tuning bros.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2011, 19:40:11 pm
The 2ohm resistor between ground and the source is affecting somehow like a negative feedback and maybe is causing the driver to not drive the fet into the enhanced mode and during the turn off the voltage can go negative turning on the mosfet again...


I'm going to initially try reducing the driver impedance by leaving only a 20ohm resistor with the backward diode over it..


Well for many problems must come better solutions..
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 11, 2011, 04:40:25 am
hello


more problems here, i got my igbt module burned when the fuse fused. The variac caused a spike that destructed the igbt. AT first i didn't understood why than i tried the other and pushed and the fuse blowed and the igbt was destructed...




Don't know what to do. This is not acceptable. I'm afraid i have to go to the electronic engineer university next week and see if i find some help.




I was going to try more but i don't want to burn more components. The main problem is that i don't have the money to burn and replace transistor after another until i find a good design.


I will enjoy the night winding more turns in the primary, thats all i can do... 



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 12, 2011, 15:43:47 pm
Nothing like a night without sleep to find the ideas you need.


I think that i understood what is going on I think that the diode across the primary is a must have, cause it reduce the dV/dT transient, cause by the interruption of the current, If the diode is not there the "charged primary" will suck down electrons thru the capacitance between the drain and source charging the drain and source capacitance to up to double the supply voltage, and all this very fast. .


So i'm going to add a snubber circuit in the mosfet and across the primary, across the primary i will have a diode and some resistors, and across the drain and source there will be a capacitor and a diode with a series capacitor so we can discharge the drain source capacitance tension to change slower... I though about adding a 1nf capacitor and a diode with a 10k resistor in series...   


http://www.cde.com/tech/design.pdf


I though a way to protect against the fuse blow too, i'm going to add a capacitor and a resistor in parallel with the fuse so if it fuses it wont destroy the mosfet again...


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 12, 2011, 16:23:27 pm
I think that i finally understood the idea behind the resistive coil of wire... Is only for limiting the Q factor of the resonance and localizing power dissipation... If the Q is too high you are not able to tune to resonance. so i'm going to add a resistive coil of wire, i have a wire here that has 30ohms per meter so maybe 3 meters is ok. this will be added between the tx5 and the cell, to reduce the Q factor.


I think that the secondary also act as a load to the resonant tank what should reduce the Q factor too and also the resistors in parallel with the primary...


I'm going to build every thing that i will use from resistors and capacitors for the snubber, cause i don't really have any other money to invest. In my previous pll i had a hand made capacitor that i had to make 300pf , very easy with pp film and copper foil that i have here..




My numbers here i have 1,1H and 330pf in the tank and around 30ohm so i will add 100 ohms in series to reduce the Q with was around 2000 and the frequency around 8300khz i'm not considering deviation in frequency cause of the load so is not an accurate value probably higher than that if you think well. So if i reduce the Q to 440 by adding more 100 ohms will be far easier to tune in. And from my calculations dissipating 93watts in the tank you would reach 50kv with a recirculating current of 850ma between the cell and the tx5 coil.



I'm also not considering the capacitor losses..

I'm not considering also the reflected load of the secondary witch should also reduce the Q.


I'm thinking about winding up a new secondary with thicker wire so i have more current available for the cell but i'm not sure if is actually necessary. The resonance should induce in the tx4 coil already a nice impressed voltage. I think that i will need to add also coils for the positive side on the other core too to have more load in form of voltage to the cell.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2011, 05:55:54 am
I made the snubber components today, i made two 450pf capacitors and two non inductive wire wound 100 ohms resistors. And also a resistive choke having 200 ohms.. These resistances can be easily varied.


Now i need to test to see if the resistance wire will suport the power dissipation.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2011, 13:32:18 pm
Fabio,

I seen schematics adding zener diodes across the fets.
That is done to protect the fet against HV surges.
Have you looked into that?

Steve
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2011, 15:23:53 pm

Hi Steve

I thought yes but I could not find Zener that bear more than 200v, seems in the irfp840 that there is already a zener between drain and source. But I think the problem is happening cause the rate of change in voltage dv/dt is too high and together with heat this may cause a spark inside the mosfet, so i need to get around the transients, for this i will put a diode in parallel with the primary witch is one way to prevent that when the pulse is interrupted that the coil charge the drain source capacitance of the mosfet as result of the kick back effect... Actually when resonance happens i think there is not going to be any hard switching, cause the resonance will prevent the kickback (only at resonance) in the primary if you add an oscilloscope you will see the double frequency, also in the secondary and the tx4 coil, the tx5 coil will still have the same frequency you a re applying but ac.. 


I will also add a 450pf capacitor (hand made) in series with a 100ohms non inductive resistor (hand made) all this in parallel with drain and gate, all this with the hope to  stop burning mosfets.


I will try this simple snubber, if don't work I still have one other 840 so I will try another snubber diagram that uses yet a diode in it. Is called RCD snubber. Not sure if will be needed.


Other thing that concerns me is the fuse blow of the variac that is blowing also the mosfet. I'm going to add a resistor in parallel with the fuse but i'm not sure if the fuse develops a voltage in it before blowing. So i'm going to try this to see how much voltage it needs to blow. Than I will add a resistor that don't let to much current to flow.. . Is just one way i thought to be able to not have all that interrupted energy to discharge all in once in the mosfet


I'm wiling to apply up to 250v 2amps in the primary so I need to be 100% safe that the circuit will not interrupt functioning, so tests can't be stopped cause of this. This is important cause if I go to the university make the tests I cannot stop the experiment many times to change the mosfets or fuses... or the teacher will laughs me. 


Steve do you have any idea of the kind of zener? part number? I could try to find if you tell me...


Thanks


Sebs


(http://www.softwareforeducation.com/electronics/notes/AS/mosfet/switch.gif)
 

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2011, 21:10:36 pm
Hello guys, i'm working on the thing here and i have the following situation.


The snubber worked ok, the diode never gets hot, i burned a irf840 cause i wanted to try lowering to the maximum the gate voltage but it got burn so always should be driven at 10v min, but again seems to work ok now with the snubber.


Except that the mosfet seem to not completely switch block the 120hz from the mains rectified, like i also pointed before during 0% PW the mosfet still conducts..


I don't really know how to solve this. But i guess the only answer would be to try bipolar transistors.


Anyone any idea?


I now have only a 20ohm resistor between the driver and the gate. And seems to work fine. but still have the superimposed 120hz current.


Maybe PNP?


Any idea?


Please?










 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2011, 23:03:40 pm
Why don't you just use a mosfet driver? I use a FAN3121T.It will need to be mounted on a breakout board because it is a small surface mount IC.A place called sparkfun.com sells the board.
 
Why aren't you filtering out the 120 hz pulses from your vari-ac? Making it a clean DC voltage.You don't need the pulses on the positive side of your primary coil.
 
Don
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 00:03:46 am
Sebo,
agreed...
Use a car battery or something like it to power your pulser seperatley and connect it to your 120v variac ground after the bridge to the battery negative and your pulser negative.  A mosfet driver is useful as well and saves the rest of the circuit should things go bad.  The car battery works well for me.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 02:12:00 am
Hy don,


I'm using IR4427 driver but is not turning off the mosfet anyway maybe i will try to find another one with more current peak,,,


 Hi kickbackemf


thanks for the idea, the battery should filter the 120hz i think... Good idea.


Thanks don and kick

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 02:32:14 am
I think that my theory about the resonance, was wrong, but i was able to identify the problem.


I think that i understood the principle behind the unipolar coil that stan created.


Is just two similar coils connected to each other field add, thru a diode, in the bottom of the diode you put the connection to the outside of the cell, than each of the extremities of the coils goes to the tubes. All this must be pulsed by a primary coil and should be all we need. If all the wires are in the same direction thus having the same polarities, where the primary positive input the other wires will be negative aways. Unipolar pulses should be formed at the resonant frequency.


I think that we could add capacitors in parallel to reduce the frequency and Q.




The vic sink pulse Is about the same but has another coil that resonates so it is able to develop the resonance.


So only one diode is needed to make the resonance to be unipolar. The thing is that the diode select the coil that will receive the resonance discharge, so arranged to only allow unipolar pulses.





Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 08:15:12 am
quote:

I think that i understood the principle behind the unipolar coil that stan created.


Is just two similar coils connected to each other field add, thru a diode, in the bottom of the diode you put the connection to the outside of the cell, than each of the extremities of the coils goes to the tubes. All this must be pulsed by a primary coil and should be all we need. If all the wires are in the same direction thus having the same polarities, where the primary positive input the other wires will be negative aways. Unipolar pulses should be formed at the resonant frequency.


I think that we could add capacitors in parallel to reduce the frequency and Q.

Hi Sebos
Can you post scheme for this?
thank
andy
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 15:10:36 pm
Seb,


seconded, I'm off today and would like to better understand how your are connecting these two coils and diode...  I'll give it a try yet cannot seem to see it in my mind, a diagram would help


kb
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 15:40:57 pm
Here it goes...


The L3 coil is bigger, and as the other coils should support high current, Maybe 5 amps...


The thing is that L3 gets in resonance with Cr and alternately send or a positive pulse thru the diode or a negative pulse thru the other coil, this way the transformer will have only unipolar field.


One of the coils while receiving the pulse will induce a pulse in the other coil therefore doubling the frequency of the unipolar pulses.




Before the theory was wrong i think, cause if tx5 was wounded in contrary direction, when the resonance actually revert polarity it would induce a contrary pulse so not being unipolar.


What could be done to simply adjust that is to connect also tx5 field aiding and between the secondary and the tx5 to add a diode (yes a diode) in the same direction as the other (field aiding) but before the diode between the secondary and the diode goes the connection to a resonating coil that will be connected to Cr outside the cell...


This should make the transformer to work unipolar but the diode across the primary would kill in theory the thing cause a positive voltage would be induced and it would go into conduction all the time also... MAybe is part of the technology, only test will tell us. 

$ 1 2.1200000000000005E-6 0.3347900166492528 45 5.0 50
d 432 144 480 144 1 0.805904783
c 416 256 464 256 0 2.0E-9 0.0021259984363837248
c 480 368 400 368 0 1.0E-9 35252.321068059915
T 256 112 320 368 0 0.01 5.0 -3.6290586313735487 0.8051619180830033 0.9
v 192 112 192 368 0 2 4892.0 5.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 192 368 256 368 0
w 192 112 256 112 0
r 320 112 400 112 0 1.0
w 416 304 480 368 0
l 320 368 384 368 0 1.0 0.8051619180830032
w 384 368 400 368 0
w 432 144 400 112 0
d 336 144 384 144 1 0.805904783
r 416 304 464 304 0 10.0
w 464 304 464 256 0
w 416 256 416 304 0
T 384 160 480 208 0 0.01 1.0 -0.805161918083003 8.881784197001252E-16 0.99
w 480 144 480 160 0
w 480 224 464 256 0
w 480 208 480 224 0
w 336 144 336 160 0
w 336 160 384 160 0
w 384 144 432 144 0
r 352 256 416 256 0 10.0
w 384 208 352 256 0
o 1 1 0 299 20.0 0.0015625 0 -1
o 2 1 0 35 81920.0 1.6 1 -1
o 4 1 1 299 40.0 9.765625E-5 2 -1
o 13 1 0 298 18.707220957835556 0.7482888383134223 3 -1
o 2 1 0 41 40960.0 1.6 4 -1
o 23 64 1 35 20.0 9.765625E-5 5 -1
o 13 4 0 291 20.0 1.6 6 -1

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 16:48:48 pm

Notice the frequency doubling in the primary power consumption. I think that in the wfc there the frequency is also doubling but the simulation don't see it cause is kind of electrostatic..

$ 1 2.1200000000000005E-6 0.9891409633455756 45 5.0 50
d 432 144 480 144 1 0.805904783
c 416 256 464 256 0 1.0000000000000001E-7 -95.56112952231244
c 480 368 400 368 0 1.0E-9 -150.79088069151953
T 256 112 320 368 0 0.1 1.0 0.21468466618779294 -0.2567940735419827 0.9
v 192 112 192 368 0 2 4770.0 50.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 192 368 256 368 0
w 192 112 256 112 0
r 320 112 400 112 0 10.0
w 416 304 480 368 0
l 320 368 384 368 0 1.0 -0.2567940735419827
w 384 368 400 368 0
w 432 144 400 112 0
d 336 144 384 144 1 0.805904783
r 416 304 464 304 0 1000.0
w 464 304 464 256 0
w 416 256 416 304 0
T 384 160 480 208 0 0.1 1.0 -3.469446951953614E-18 0.25679407354198275 0.99
w 480 144 480 160 0
w 480 224 464 256 0
w 480 208 480 224 0
w 336 144 336 160 0
w 384 208 416 256 0
w 336 160 384 160 0
w 384 144 432 144 0
o 1 1 0 297 80.0 0.4 0 -1
o 2 1 0 35 20480.0 0.4 1 -1
o 4 1 1 299 20.0 9.765625E-5 2 -1
o 13 1 0 298 149.65776766268445 0.09353610478917779 3 -1
o 2 1 0 41 5120.0 0.4 4 -1
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 04:53:43 am


I think that i drop into something here check this out and tell me what you think.


What if we make tx2 + tx4 (mutual coupling) = to tx5 coil


(tx5 is field adding too)


So now we have two coils of equal length.


they converge where the tx5 meets tx2 and in the tubes.  (a diode could be used there to block the discharge in reverse polarity but maybe is not needed, however stan used this in the vic sink circuit.


If you make the outside capacitance to be connected to this point where tx5 meets tx2 you close a unipolar resonant pulsing core. And i explain to you why.


When the pulse is first applied there will be B+ in the cell and a B-  But the outside container will be at 0v relative to both potentials. Obviously will be more positive than the negative and more negative than the positive. Now if you think of the diode you will notice that when the pulse terminates I think that the positive will become negative source of electrons so they will go toward the 0v... creating another pulse of same polarity...


Would be useful to add another coil in a separated induction core between the vic and the outside of the cell so you can reduce the frequency while not changing the ratio between the tx coils. i think that would be what stan call the amp inhibiting coil. Also in the alternator.


I noticed some similarities...


I think that both chokes and the secondary acts not only as secondary but as a primary also during pulsing operations, inducing and being induced, the diode and the configuration allow the field to be unipolar therefore never changing direction if at resonance, varying the flux still by the pulses and resonance itself but never changing direction.


would be clear that a way to detect if there is bipolar pulses would be a good way to detect resonance. But i still think that this could be only used as a reset, cause the best way to have a nice feedback would be to get it from a current transformer, or a coil wounded in the bipolar resonating coil tx6 amp inhibiting coil.


The tx5 i supposed that should be little bigger than the other two cause this would encourages the discharge to come thru the other electrode. Well, i don't know, need to do more experiments. Tomorrow i will try some other things. Maybe thats why he talked about acomodating to the contaminants of the water. Maybe depending on the water the tx5 coil must be bigger or smaller than tx2+tx4 and also both this could maybe need or not other coil configurations....




So
tx1 primary
tx2 secondary (having its positive connected to a diode D1 and the negative connected to the positive of the tx5 choke thru a diode or not)
tx3 pulse indicator coil
tx4 resonant changing choke, (the diode D1 coming from secondary positive is connected to the negative side of the tx4 choke, the positive side is connected than to the outer tube )
tx5 resonant charging choke (have its negative side connected to the inner tube, and its positive connected to a diode D2 witch is than serially connected to the negative side of the secondary and to tx6 coil.
tx6 amp inhibiting coil (in a separated core) connected between the point where tx2 negative side and the diode D2 meets and also connected to the earth ground.
tx7 tuning variable coil (connected between tx5 coil and the cell)
 
The cell must have a copper foil around it to form the resonant capacitor. This copper foil is connected to earth ground to complete the resonant circuit. 


The tx6 coil could have a section of the primary wounded on it, this would help to neutralize the voltage for the next pulse.


thats all folks


BR

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 10:12:17 am
I think the outer tube must be the positive B+ cause if the inside tube is the negative one than if we have the positive 0v relative to the negative, we want this charge to be captured by the outer tube, i said to induce this condition maybe tx5 could be bigger than tx4+tx2 together or we could simply add the diode or a resistor so adjusting or tuning to the dielectric according to contaminants to the water.


The thing is that we need to keep unipolar, and not only in the sense of the magnetic field but also in the water the current always must flow in one direction. Think about that, this is what i'm talking about when i talk about controlling the path where the resonant energy want to discharge and recirculate be impedance or diiode.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 11:30:02 am
Hi Sebosfato, I just wanna ask a question to satisfy a curriosty i have you may be able to answer ok.... 
 
Say i charge a capacitor up and it maintaines a voltage of something like 1.86 volts when no  charging voltage is applied how would i be able to find resonance with inductor  and capacitor  so that the inductor puts out a resonate waveform with the capacitors maintained peak voltage? does that make since? what im saying is that im interested in the inductor resonating with the charged capacitor at the capacitors holding charge if its only for a very short time .
Do i need to measure capacity after i charge with 26v,100v, 600v?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 13:48:22 pm

Hi newguy

IF you mean the water capacitor, i think you should not consider it much, as you said globally it will not remain charged for so long, of course it interfere and the dielectric proprieties are what we are thinking about but when i say to charge the cell i might mean to charge the acrylic this will be the capacitor, one of the electrodes is the water itself and the other is the earth ground or whatever you have connected to the outside of the cell (acrylic). This will create the high energy field that will break the molecules. Of course all this must be in accordance with the resonance ad the unipolar pulses... this is what i'm trying now.


The acrylic will hold the charge well for some time, i think is a good dielectric.  I didn't tested yet how much time but you must also consider a high impedance ohmmeter to measure the capacitance losses would be needed my multimeters are really crap.


You should never measure any components value while there is voltage in it. never! you can damage your meter! (of course you can measure voltage across components but you must know that the  multimeter interacts with the circuit in some ways so or you can get wrong measure, or you can get the performance of the circuit affected, or even get the multimeter damaged. For example to measure the resistance the multimeter apply a voltage between the leads and than measure the current and determine the resistance, or vice versa.


I think that in the water there might be like 1000v between the tubes cause here i have very pure water... but maybe up to 2000v.


With tap water i think that maybe 26v like stan said...


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 16:59:11 pm
guys i'm not pretty sure cause all this i just said can work in the unipolar manner, but i think that my theory was right after all, i re-thinked today and took a look in the patent again.


So here it goes.


Is clear that the orientation of tx5 is contrary but i noticed something i overlooked before that is the fact that during the on pulse the diode work as a blocking diode (concluded by analyzing the diagram in the patent and primary coil orientation) therefore it works in what i will call resonant mode witch would be similar to kick back mode but instead of accumulating energy in the core it is accumulated in the water in the form of electrostatic charge, (resonant charging choke) so tx5 coil apply a negative pulse B- to the inner electrode in reference to ground (copper outside the cell (reference capacitance) and when the pulse terminates the capacitor discharges thru tx5 coil witch induces (acting as a primary) induces now in the secondary and tx4 coil a positive voltage B+ to the outer tube in reference to the copper, so as the current is returning in the tx5 coil to induce in the secondary and tx4 a high voltage pulse the current is therefore restricted cause cannot go in two directions at the same time in the wire so all the electrons (negative charge) are going to be deposited into the copper outside the container, witch makes of it highly negative and full of electrons. Now the primary came again with another pulse than send this electrons to the negative electrode over and over again. 


I think that is not bad idea to ad a capacitor in parallel with tx5 to reduce the frequency... or a coil in series with it.


In this case only tx5 resonates (tuned coil)


The positive and negative pulses are not applied at the same time.


The steam resonator is the same thing but he first make a sequence of pulses and than before breaking he flips the polarity with another sequence of pulses!!!! The voltage level is whats going to determinate the elongation of the water molecule, all this by induction and not conduction!!!


So i guess the theory was kind of right in the end anyway, except by the phase of the pulse.


Now i'm going to check if i can reach this condition.


 8)






 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 17:05:51 pm
Oh boy


I think that i understood why my resonance was not working. As the mosfet was not able to remain shut cause of the variac, the resonance got killed by the current that kept flowing.


solution, is to use the variac in parallel with the battery just to recharge it or maybe to keep the charge if possible.


well, lets go
Title: Blocking Diode
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 06:48:37 am
Blocking Diode
Blocking Diode (B) prevents electrical "shorting" to secondary coil (A) during pulse-off time since the diode "only" conducts electrical energy in the direction of the schematic arrow.

Switching diode (55) of Figure (3-22) not only acts as a blocking diode by preventing electrical "shorting" to secondary coil (52) during pulse off-time (69) of Figure (3-20) since diode (55) "only" conducts electrical energy in the direction of schematic arrow; but, also, and at the same time functions as a electronic switch which opens electrical circuit (60) during pulse offtime ... allowing magnetic fields of both inductor coils (56/57) to collapse ... forming pulse train (64a xxx 64n).


Voltage Intensifier Circuit (60) of Figure (3-22) (Memo WFC 422 DA) as to Figure (1-1) (Memo WFC 420) and Voltage Intensifier Circuit (620) of Figure (7-1) are specifically designed to restrict amp flow during Programmable Pulsing Operations (49a xxx 49n) but in different operational modes: VIC voltage circuit (60) utilizes copper wire-wrap to form Resonant Charging Chokes (56/62) of Figure (3-22) in conjunction with Switching Diode (55) to encourage and make use of "Electron Bounce" phenomena (700) of Figure (7-9) to help promote Step Charging Effect (628) of Figure (7-7) by preventing electrical discharge of Resonant Cavity (140 - 170) since Blocking Diode functions as an "Open" switch during Pulse Off-time; whereas, VIC Voltage Enhancement Circuit (VIC - VB) (620) of Figure (7-1) incorporates the use of stainless steel wire- wrap coils (614/615) to accomplish the formation of unipolar gated pulse-wave (64a xxx T3 xxx 64n) without experiencing "signal distortion" or "signal degradation" (preventing transformer ringing during signal propagation) as elevated voltage levels ( - xx Vc- xx Vd - xx Vn) while allowing the reduction of Capacitor-Gap (Cp) (616) of Figure (7-11) width spacing (57 of Figure 3- 25 ~35 of Figure 6-2) (typically .060 - .010) respectively. as illustrated in Tubular Resonant Cavity (170) as to Taper Resonant Cavity (620) of Figure (7-1).
Switching Diode (55) of Figure (3-22) prevents Bidirectional electron flow (current flow in one direction only) since Blocking - Diode (55) only conducts "current flow" in the direction of schematic-arrow while being placed in-line with VIC Circuit impedance interaction (R1 + Z2 + Z3 .•. Re), as mathematically extrapolated in Circuit Equation (Eq 9) ... Diode (55) being placed between Secondary Pickup Coil (52) and Resonant Charging Choke (56) to act as an electronic switch in open-position during pulse off-time (T2) of Figure (7-8) while preventing electron flow in reverse direction when Inductor (L1) collapsing electromagnetic field (FLl) produces another unipolar pulse wave-form ( 64a - 64b) ... producing unipolar voltage wave-form (64a xxx 64n) during repeated pulse-signal (46a xxx 46n) on-time (Tla xxx TIn) ... allowing the formation of an gated pulse- frequency pulse-train (64a/64b - T3 - 64a/64b) when pulse off-time (T3) is greater than time-period (T2) ... input-signal (49a xxx 49n) being a Pulse-Train where (T2) pulse offtime (T2) is adjusted to allows Unipolar Pulse-Train (64a xxx T3 xxx 64n) ... outputting Voltage-wave signal (64a xxx 64n) being a pulse-frequency doubler due to Inductance Reactance (FL) of Inductor Coil (56) of Figure (3-22) when collapsing magnetic field (FI) of Figure (7-3b) re-cuts coil-wrap (Ll) during each pulse off-time (T2) ... producing a second unipolar voltage wave-form (64b) during the rise and fall of magnetic field (71), as further illustrated in (620) of Figure (7-1).


Blocking Diode (618) functions as an "Electrical Isolator" that prevents electrical discharge of Dual Secondary Coil (616A / B) during applied Pulsing Operations (49a xxx 49n).

 Blocking Diode (52) of Figure (4-9) as to Figure (1-1) allows unipolar pulse-wave to go more positive on each pulse-cycle since the Blocking Diode (52) prevents the Resonant Cavity (Cp) from discharging during pulse off-time, as so illustrated in Figure (1-4) as to (60) of Figure (3-22) ... allowing the developed "Electrical Stress"(RU/RU' - ST/ST') of Figure (5-1/5-2) across Capacitor Gap (Cp) to go to the farthest point beyond the "State of Equilibrium" ... see Atomic Energy Balance of Water (WFC memo 424), once again. The programmable pulse-frequency (49a xxx 49n) of Figure (10-1) input is simply adjusted to tune-in to the dielectric property of the Water Molecule. The resultant Dynamic Electrical Charging Effect (612) of Figure (8-1) acts as a progressive energy enhancer (Energy Priming Stage) (500) of Figure (5-1) when Static State Space (790) of (8-3) is configured to Dynamic State Space (800) of Figure (8-4), as so illustrated in WFC memo (427) titled "Voltage Wave-Guide" ... whereby, the Voltage Wave-Guides forms Water Gap (Cp).



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 06:59:30 am
Water now becomes part of Voltage Intensifier circuit in the form of "resistance" between electrical ground (67) and pulse- frequency positive potential (66) ... helping to prevent electron flow within pulsing circuit (60) of Figure (3-22).
Inductor (56) and capacitor (57) properties of LC circuit (180) is therefore "tuned" to resonant at a given frequency. Resonant frequency (63) of Figure (3-19) can be raised or lowered by changing the inductance (56) and/or capacitance (57) valves. The established resonant frequency is, of course, independent of voltage amplitude, as illustrated in Figure (3-21) as to Figure (3-18). The value of inductor (56), value of capacitor (57), and the pulse-frequency (63) of voltage (Yo xxx Vn) being applied across the LC circuit determined the impedance of LC circuit (Figure 3-28).

Inductor (C) is made of or composed of resistive wire (R2) to further restrict D.C. current flow beyond inductance reaction (XL), and, is given by
(Eq 8)
Dual-inline RLC Network
Variable inductor-coil (D), similar to inductor (C) connected to opposite polarity voltage zone (E2) further inhibits electron movement or deflection within the Voltage Intensifier Circuit. Movable wiper arm fine "tunes" "Resonant Action" during pulsing operations. Inductor (D) in relationship to inductor (C) electrically balances the opposite voltage electrical potential across voltage zones (EI/E2).
VIC Resistance
Since pickup coil (A) is also composed of or made of resistive wire-coil (Rl), then, total circuit resistance is given by Eq9
Where, RE is the dielectric constant of natural water.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 11:12:23 am
what is the highest voltage you have read across a tube cell with pure water in it , it is the water atoms providing this " holding charge" is it not? maybe minus the metals work function?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 12:17:51 pm
Hello new guy


 i did some tests with pure water, my water had around up to 10kohm resistance for a tube cell like stan said with around 1,8nf


The thing is that the voltage was proportional to the current applied so if could apply 1 amp there would be 10kv but thats not the correct way.


Now I understand that we can put unlimited voltage fields if The fields are applied in distinct moments. So under resonance no current should flow.




I said B- is first applied than B+. Simple as that. Of course only with resonance you can have the right impedance to have such high fields with strong attraction. With only coils could be done I think but as the impedances would need to be very high I think that would not work really well.


The resonance is the easiest and most economic way to have high energy recirculating with minimum components stress, with the desired impedance and voltage current and frequency.


As the water forms a resistor between the positive and electrical ground whenever the resonance voltage become higher than the reflected pulse this will allow some backward conduction, but it has the current restricted cause it will need to pass thru the secondary diode and choke and is automatically inducing or establishing the field across the tubes. Remember induction charging? yes this is what happens between the voltage zones and the molecules and atoms.


Stan said and he only repeated what physics studied since a long time. When you have a charged particle that moves thru a field the result of this interaction is electromagnetic energy.


For example, you know that a generator works by moving a coil in relation to magnets or vice versa, the moving magnetic field lines crossing the coil induces a voltage field in the atoms according to the orientation. What i want to mean is, what if you take a very strong magnet and circulate water thru it? What happens? Seems that nothing happens, but inside the water the fields are interacting with the bound electrons witch receive this induced contrary voltage that makes the bound to switch off.


Of course the amount of magnetism is big to achieve this, and cause voltage field is much stronger than magnetic field, stan decided to work with the voltage. The movement will induce a high magnetic field in the molecules. But the magnetic field will be really high. 


When the negative field is applied the hydrogen atoms are attracted to the electrode while the covalent electrons are repelled this implies a very strong force that makes the net charge of the water polar molecule to diminish and sequentially as the fields alternates between positive in one electrode and negative in the other alternately up to the point where the covalent bound switch off. This is where the water molecule is in resonance, this mean that the oxygen atom gets dissociated from the water molecule and simply the shared bonding electrons migrate to the hydrogen atoms, and both the hydrogen and oxygen revert to net zero electrical charge this way the atoms are released from the water as a gas.

The field intensity will increase in step manner like stan said cause every pulse you add in the resonance accumulated more energy and this energy recirculate thru the next cycle and so on.


When the molecules dissociate into atoms there will be a time that it will suffer resonant action (defection thru the fields)...


I recommend you all to re read the tech brief again! I did it and do it every while and i aways find some good. 




Look that is not only me saying that the diode will work in the pulse off...


Stan words

"The blocking diode functions as a electronic switch which opens electrical circuit (60) during pulse offtime ... allowing magnetic fields of both inductor coils (56/57) to collapse ... forming pulse train (64a xxx 64n)."




If anyone here understand the minimum of electrical circuit will notice what i'm saying.


I used polimer filter to make the water pure, i only know that it has both positive and negative polimers together. But to make it for very high pure water i put all this in a long tube that support the water tap pressure so it filters very slowly but a very pure water.


To know how pure it is you just add a pair of electrodes apply a dc voltage and measure the current than you know the resistance of your specific cell-


Br




Notice how he makes distinction between water charge and the water capacitor charge


"The effect of the core is to isolate the water capacitor and to prevent the pulsing signal from going below an arbitrary ground and to maintain the charge of the already charged water and water capacitor."
Title: If theres a good soul that wants to help...
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 12:28:47 pm
If by any chance someone wants to donate some money or instruments (voltmeter, oscilloscope...)to help me in my project, please send me a pm and I will create a pay-pall where I can receive the donation easily or could provide a place where you can send what you want. I would really appreciate.


If i had some money i would fix my multimeter if possible and make more coils to test... if possible i would buy a usb oscilloscope and a nice clamp ampmultimeter..
I would also get some support from some engineering industry...


I just though that my cousin best friend is the manager of the institute of research and technology of sao paulo maybe i could get some help with the pulsing circuit there...

Thanks
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 12:40:09 pm
hi i think my idea of resonance may be diffrent is all as may be the elictrical polarization process.I read alot of Stans work and form an idea about how to understand to research published documents to support the ideas... the more of Stans work that gets released forms new ideas and so with research documents.
The idea im researching now is the possitive polarization of  water atoms  so more is attracted to negative side.It gets crazy because the nucleaus of water is all protons.
Title: The secret is achieving perfect unipolar pulses in the cell!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 12:55:57 pm
Yes they are all protons neutrons and electrons... What makes the proprieties of the oxygen and oxygen to be able to be manipulated by fields.


I think that you should read this thread from the start where i was talking about the water taking on a charge, i think this will still happen in this system but not as i thought before. is only about induction charging i think. The electrodes fields will induce in the water molecules a counter charge to the dipole so you lower in step function the electrical attraction of the atoms. Is because the respective fields will attract the atom and repel the covalent electron and vice versa.


This explain pretty much why meyer said that out of resonance there would be 40ma flowing and when in resonance it drops to 1ma. Cause in resonance the fields are exactly 180° out of phase so no current can flow. Isn't it very clear?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 13:05:04 pm
I think Steve Meyers showed us the rest of the story in his patent.What does electrical polarization process means to you?
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 13:21:52 pm

I think that maybe there is a reason for meyer to want the minimal possible capacitance to the isolated ground. This would allow ultra high voltage fields (40kv) with very low current therefore power consumption, cause the impedance would be very high.

So the circuit will have very High positive KV B+ AND negative KV B- relative to ground and 180° out of phase. Seems simple and stupid like he claimed.




I researched about this and found that there are 4 types of polarization.


The one we are interested in my opinion is net polarization to achieve ionized state gas atoms straight from the water, and electronic polarization witch is what I referred to as induction charging effect by the field alone.


But i think that the water bath will also take on a positive net charge cause of the way it is set.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 14:05:35 pm
why would the water bath b possitive? how would ur possitive electrode effect it if it was?  i thawt this was a neat link:
http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys03/apotdif/default.htm (http://regentsprep.org/Regents/physics/phys03/apotdif/default.htm)
 
seems simple .
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 14:34:13 pm

Nice link,


What lead me to think this is because meyer claimed that electrons would be ejected from the water bath, Will be positive in my understanding cause the secondary and diode and resonant charging choke tx4 allow the water to get up to high voltage positive as the current is being restricted, this electrons will now only see the water in the other field electrode.


As in the tx5 coil during the pulse off have the current flowing from B- to ground, while inducing the positive pulse in the rest of the vic, prohibit the current from flowing thru that wire in the other direction, this is the amp restriction, as the amp is restricted the cell will tend to get positive cause the positive electrode will only take the electrons from the water when the pulse off period reach half way the B- electrode is at 0v and up to the point where pulse is about to be reapplied it is high kv positive and the other electrode is at even higher voltage positive therefore. You understand?






Thanks for reminding me about stephen meyer. Now i had just took a look and fully understood what he meant.


He uses the alternator in resonance in each phase like i described. 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 15:15:06 pm
Man i think that i understood the working of the alternator.


The frequency of the resonance will be the three phase signal frequency there are two chokes connected to each phase with a diode conducting and the other with the diode non conducting, this chokes are connected to 2 capacitors serially connected, than the middle between the capacitors is the ground i'm talking about Ref. each phase have the same set of chokes having the same capacitors values...


This will be important cause the one choke will not resonate only with the other choke in its core but with the other phase sets and so on...


Thats why stephen meyer used a switch in each termination end that select to each cell tube goes the positive or negative goes respectively. Oh boy this is so simple, i'm asking my self why i didn't finished yet my project. I'm a kind that keep thinking...


The frequency seems to be 468 hz for the stephen patent and the impedance matched to 10 ohms (dead short almost)


 So the fields are applied in counter phases with a high voltage magnification cause of the resonance.
Title: professional coils
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 15:33:07 pm
I quoted how much would cost to have the coils professionally wounded, and i got this price, 30 euros per kilogram of bobbins and if high voltage insulation in the bobbins is require 50euros kg. ..


When i have some money i want to get some done for me.


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 16:22:09 pm
@Sebosfato
Question1: when you pulse the TX1 coil "0=off 12V=on" what do you get at TX2 coil on different frequency?
Stan said unipolar pulses. For example 12V in secondary 150V out.
What does this signal look like?

My guess: When we talk about "Resonant Charging Choke" is has to be DC pulse to charge a capacitor. So above zero.
The TX2 is stepping up the TX1 signal as PULSE so it is a PULSE transformer. Stan said just add windings on the TX2 to get more voltage.
When the frequency is adjusted into the TX1 the TX2 gives out the same frequency.
This makes sense because the TX4 and TX5 are "Resonant Charging Chokes" dual in line with the capacitor to restrict amps.
As a result the water capacitor would charge due "amp restriction"
Normal "Resonant Charging Choke" charges Vout=2*Vin the capacitor but an WFC cell has the
amp restriction (dual"Resonant Charging Choke" valve) and can not discharge.


Question2:What is the frequency to make the "Resonant Charging Choke" choke the amps?
What does this signal look like?

My guess: This is the PULSE frequency 50% duty cycle.
Should it go into resonance with the wfc (LC resonance) then it "Restricts Amps" or should it be adjusted on the wfc RC charge time?
Notice that the C is not constant so it has to be regulated to maintain resonance.
When resonance occurs AC is created (notice we must only use DC pulse).


Question3:What signal is the TX3.

My guess: DC pulse or AC, I have no idea because the TX2 pulse is the same frequency the TX3 picks-up?
Or on resonance ("Resonant Charging Chokes" and WFC) it senses a AC signal. But then we do not have DC pulse going into the "Resonant Charging Choke" or the blocking diode makes it DC pulse?


It doesn't make it clearer to me at this moment.

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 18:20:24 pm
Hello Webmug,


1 :


When Tx1 first turn on (pulse on) the diode will be blocking the current therefore the tx5 coil send a negative voltage field to the cell in reference to ground, when the pulse terminates there is no residual energy left in the core, so the cell discharges the negative field into the ground but while doing so it act as a primary, so it induce now in the tx2 and tx4 coils thru the diode (open during pulse off) a positive field in the cell in reference to ground. The current cannot flow thru the tx5 coil cause there is already another current in it flowing in the opposite direction so the cell get charged now positively or you have now a B+ high voltage field. When 50% of the off period has passed the B-field has reached 0v and start to get positive until the point where the next pulse is applied again.


As you got initially a first negative pulse (in relation to ground) and than 180° later you got another positive pulse (in relation to ground), you clearly doubled the frequency and you got amp restricted cause the positive and negative are not being applied at the same time and also because the circuit that induces the positive restrict the ability of the positive pulse to pass current thru its source so this fact takes voltage to the upper limits cause impedance is maximum. 


The secondary is being feed magnetically by a resonant tank and is connected in series with contrary polarity so the current cannot flow. Actually it can and it does but is only ma to charge up the cell as a whole.


So tx5 is tuned it resonates acts as a secondary during pulse on and primary during pulse off,


The tx2 coil and tx4 act also as secondary but during the pulse off, when the capacitor reaches 0v it start acting as a primary together with tx1 to induce in the tx5 coil the negative pulse once again during pulse on.


Is it clear to you? .


2


I think that the circuit is tuned to electrical resonance but at a certain high voltage field level water breaks down. The wave form will be exact what stan showed across the cell.


The tx5 coil signal should be ac so as tx3 at resonance. At resonance as the fields will be completely out of phase 0 current should flow thru the electrodes,thus become only static electric fields. However some losses must occur and as we are doing it dc the resonance must satisfy to restrict the amps to certain degree as to be able to maintain a dc offset. Is like the voltage between the plates never get 0 during the pulsing operations. 


My best guess is that we can do take the resonant frequency of the water like stan describe and design the electrical resonance in accordance with the frequency and impedance requirements but initially I believe we should go for a 5 to 10khz electrical resonance and than try to detect the water resonant frequency when the resonant action inside the cell takes place to trigger it only need the high voltage. Something tells me that maybe this resonant action is what need the amps to be restricted too...well i don't know...


Stephen meyer showed something like the resonance frequency was 500 Hz and the water resonance seemed to be 14khz... however if you analyze his graphics he had the unipolar pulse happening but the resonance occurs pulse yes pulse no. Than in the other graph he shows the fields in the water. This was sure for tap water. 




Again stan talked about secondary to charging choke ratio, and I think that here lies the deal.


If you take the primary to secondary ratio, it is not important cause it does not even have anything to do with the secondary.


we must follow this path


TX1 ___>TX5____>TX2    ->|  Tx4


1° we need to determine tx1 to tx5 ratio. This will be the increasing step voltage per pulse. But initially we should think about current!


I guess if we start from 12v 5 amps


If we have a 1:5 ratio being tx1:tx5 we should have 60 volts induced in the tx5 coil and a maximum of 1 amp can flow thru it.


Now we take this 60v and 1 amp. Under resonance the only parameter that will hold will be the impedance, the voltage will not be 60v under resonance but much higher cause the current will be 90° away from current and so voltage will be the product of the recirculating amperage times the reactance, so lets say if you have say 10kohm reactance and 1 amp flowing you will get 10kv across the coil, so the secondary will receive an ever increasing voltage according to the amount of energy accumulated in the tank. Actually the secondary if is even bigger than the tx5 coil an even higher voltage will be applied during pulse off. Basically as the diode implies that tx4 and tx5 become a current source if the current is restricted the voltage goes to infinity. This is certainly the deal.


If the resonance is too damped you need to get more voltage in the tx5 coil  from the primary
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 18:22:17 pm



Again we need energy accumulated in the cell, energy potential...

ahh
the vic have ac field but form unipolar voltage fields-

What you think about?

Br
Sebos


The Stephen  meyer patent is very smart in the sense that whenever the resonance signal is lost or mis-phasing it is readily taken in the reverse polarity in the 3 phase thing. If it do really lose resonance. Really is a very intelligent way it amused me that i never got a look in that patent with patience.

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 20:05:39 pm



Again we need energy accumulated in the cell, energy potential...

ahh
the vic have ac field but form unipolar voltage fields-

What you think about?

Br
Sebos


The Stephen  meyer patent is very smart in the sense that whenever the resonance signal is lost or mis-phasing it is readily taken in the reverse polarity in the 3 phase thing. If it do really lose resonance. Really is a very intelligent way it amused me that i never got a look in that patent with patience.


@Sebosfato
Thanks for the better explanation!

What I have tested is resonance of the coils and wfc connected. This was AC at the B- B+. My wfc cell has a capacitance of 1.23mF and resistance measured @200kOhms gap of 2mm in tap water! 40pF in air.
When I disconnect the wfc and pulse it with DC pulse (12V) it charge till 2.8V. That what it can hold due current flow.
I see slow discharge curve RC time. So it is a real capacitor.

My primary TX1 pulls 100mA at 12V DC pulsed. And get 160V @TX2. But no current!!! Or very little uA.
I think the magnetic field is not created enough to charge the wfc cell to create new PULSE at the OFF pulse.

When I pulse the TX1 and check the TX5 voltage it measures 15V just on the core.
Coils TX2,TX4,TX5 have 2000wnd, TX1 600wnd. All 30agw.

Guess my core is not good!

br,
Webmug
Title: Little news.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 20:40:46 pm
Little News.


I was performing some tests and i discovered the misterious problem in my thing here. My signal was inverted, now when the duty cycle is 0 the transistor turns off. Now is working ok. Perfect! Still not switching well because of the interference of the 120hz buts ok.


Cause i tell you i pushed the frequency up and found the resonance, the oscope canot see it but the voltage in the water came up to 250 v pushing some 100w power into the unity. But i guess is not yet tuned to resonance. Now i'm going to make the feedback circuit to be able to tune.


I'm not sure if the primary is in the right configuration in relation to the orientation need to check. But seems a good news to me.




@webmug


If the capacitance was in air 40pf cannot be bigger than 3,5 nf with the water inside of it cause the factor is 81.


You must mind the frequency and the primary orientation. The first pulse must go to the inter tube in relation to the isolated ground capacitance.


I notice that the cell reaches high voltages but than after the pulse is turned off that the inner tube always become the negative and the outer the positive.






And if i short the leads of the cell and then reopen there is still 2v there.




I'm using grain oriented but i think would work with ferrite however the ferrite has a saturation level much small- It could be not desirable if is to resonate..


I will chech the water resistance cause it is the since a while..


My primary and chokes has 24 awg wire. about 600 turns


the secondary has 28awg bout 1000turns


wish i could have yet patience to wind more turns... =)


got to go
see ya
Title: Re: Little news.
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2011, 22:19:03 pm
@webmug


If the capacitance was in air 40pf cannot be bigger than 3,5 nf with the water inside of it cause the factor is 81.
Yes, that's what I also thought. It is a mistery.
Dynodon and Donaldwfc has micro farad and not nano farad in water.
Quote
You must mind the frequency and the primary orientation. The first pulse must go to the inter tube in relation to the isolated ground capacitance.


I notice that the cell reaches high voltages but than after the pulse is turned off that the inner tube always become the negative and the outer the positive.






And if i short the leads of the cell and then reopen there is still 2v there.
I also have 2V after I short the leads of the wfc.

Quote
I'm using grain oriented but i think would work with ferrite however the ferrite has a saturation level much small- It could be not desirable if is to resonate..

I will chech the water resistance cause it is the since a while..

My primary and chokes has 24 awg wire. about 600 turns


the secondary has 28awg bout 1000turns


wish i could have yet patience to wind more turns... =)


got to go
see ya
Curious what your wfc cell specs are. Gap size, resistance, capacitance etc.


br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 17, 2011, 03:18:23 am
My wfc is close to the spec stan gave buts little bigger and also the gap. my gap is 2mm and the tubes are 4 inches i think, oh they are also of higher diameter, not very close to stan specs in the end hehe...


But now i tell you, before i went to the university i tested it again a bit and i could see the step charging effect, it happens when my frequency is set to the max of the pll.


And only between ground and positive choke just as i said it would be, the tx5 coil has probably ac in it. I see that it charges with steps and the step seems to be of a lower frequency, maybe in the audio range. But i think that i'm applying 160khz to the primary as the pll frequency, but i'm not sure cause the pc scope don't read it. I can only see the step charging cause it happens for some mili seconds..


Or i'm hitting a harmonic or the pll is already tuning to the water resonance, well only with good eq i can determine what is happening.


Tomorow i will call the teacher and try to set an apointment to try to get my hands into some equipments.. .











Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 17, 2011, 10:02:21 am
Man i think that i understood the working of the alternator.


The frequency of the resonance will be the three phase signal frequency there are two chokes connected to each phase with a diode conducting and the other with the diode non conducting, this chokes are connected to 2 capacitors serially connected, than the middle between the capacitors is the ground i'm talking about Ref. each phase have the same set of chokes having the same capacitors values...


This will be important cause the one choke will not resonate only with the other choke in its core but with the other phase sets and so on...


Thats why stephen meyer used a switch in each termination end that select to each cell tube goes the positive or negative goes respectively. Oh boy this is so simple, i'm asking my self why i didn't finished yet my project. I'm a kind that keep thinking...


The frequency seems to be 468 hz for the stephen patent and the impedance matched to 10 ohms (dead short almost)


 So the fields are applied in counter phases with a high voltage magnification cause of the resonance.

Ii think tho the resonate waveform Steve exampled was 13khz?I think in order to get the polarization we are looking will be a subharmonic of the natural atoms resonate frequency becawz its slowed down due to the alignment voltage being applied.WFC memo 424 explains alot about the resonate action im sure you have read ...  parts of it get simpler to understand the more you study.Im thinking ther must be a certain charge in order to get the action even with the correct waveforms.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 17, 2011, 11:10:39 am
Yes it is still puzzling me, i read about the resonant action but i have a theory about that, i think that the resonant action happens in the ions or dissociated atoms that remained ionized.. Why i say this? Cause the voltage fields do in fact perform work by accelerating any free charged particle to close the respective attracting electrode, so when the field phase the attraction zone will change. For example, i'm saying that you can apply each field 180° away from each other, so no current can flow as there is no potential, the field is unipolar in reference to a reference "ground". When this field phases changes i think it induces the molecular ringing that start a resonance of water and it might start to absorb energy till the point it breaks down, already energy enhanced.


Probably than what i'm trying to say is that the free ions will strike the aligned molecules. This would explain many things. The water molecules will always remaim alined as there is a unipolar field, however as the fields attraction are 180° out of phase the ions are free to oscillate. Stan says that we should design the circuit as to resonate at this frequency wavelength whatever, i need to learn about that. thats why i'm in the physics university. unfortunately for now we have only kinematics, vectors, geometry and calculus...


I think that a variable gap plate design would be a good way to find out the frequency of this oscillation to better understand the behavior so to be able to adjust the circuit to match to the wavelength of the gap using a formula...

Maybe if voltage fields are enough high there will be no need to mind this frequency... or not.. .
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 17, 2011, 13:10:18 pm
The pll with the gate is a single or harmonic frequencies generator, when you let only 1pulse to be. Dave lawton circuit wouldn't work very nice using the reset pin of the 555 he would do better if he used a nor gate to mix the frequencies this way one frequency don't change the other anyway there would be pulses being cut off at wrong position generating shorter than should pulses in the end or start of the pulse train. So only during the bursts the resonance would be maintained. I'm not so sure if he really succeeded... but is possible even with such crude circuit.


The gate harmonics are reversed. For example you have 10khz pulse and makes 50% dutycycle pulse trains at 1khz you will have 5 pulses so i think you will have a 5khz harmonic. Maybe is not exactly that. But i as a musician i could notice that when i change the pulse numbers i heard sounds like 5ths and 3ths 4ths ... so i guess they are perfect harmonics like. I think that as the are created in lower frequencies than pulsed they can add some noize to excite resonances of higher harmonics.


If the signal coming from the pll is not gated the current flow is almost 1/3 greater than if you just take one pulse off. Maybe the harmonics also helps the core to reestablish its initial conditions.









Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 17, 2011, 16:11:12 pm
variac primary burned!!!  >:(
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 17, 2011, 21:56:38 pm
variac primary burned!!!  >:(

Oh my.....
That happend to me also three months ago...
Thats very nasty.
How many amps did you pull?
Looks like a strait dc drycell test failure    8)

Are your tests now on hold?

Steve
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2011, 05:29:27 am
I think i solved the problem the variac wasn't burned it was in resonance, the fuse was gone and the capacitor was resonating with the primary at 60hz oh boy a noise that you can't imagine.




I had a 15uf cap in parallel with the fuse so if the fuse blow it don't burn the mosfet with the back pulse. Now i changed it to a 100nf capacitor, is just to prevent the variac to destruct the mosfet.


Now is working again.


I went to the university today and i talked with two teachers and explained to them the situation and they asked me to send some info so i will send the tech brief for them to read and understand more about what we are doing. This are all doctors and are all researchers from plasma to materials physics, this guys develop the new materials for the transistors and so on...!!!


Hope they can help...


Anyway i went to the engineering school library today and took 4 books to home, one called The electrical engineering hand book >2500 pgs, Richard C. Dorf. than other called Fundamentals of electrical engineering >1000 pages, Bobrow. and one called Electric and magnetic fields, Attwood,  and yet another called principles of inverter circuits...


In the last book i found many interesting things... Will spend some time now to try to understand how to improve my switching.


Steve i was pushing 250 volts at the peak and the tx5 coil started to arc all around... Than the noize started and i though it was burned.


Sebs
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2011, 14:30:58 pm
http://www.4shared.com/file/e88MegJD/Electrical_Engineering_Handboo.html


Electrical_Engineering_Handbook, university of california....its a bible 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2011, 15:44:38 pm
http://www.4shared.com/file/e88MegJD/Electrical_Engineering_Handboo.html


Electrical_Engineering_Handbook, university of california....its a bible
Thank you for the link!

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2011, 16:32:51 pm
Man all those books are wonderful for what we are doing here, i will try to track the link for this books, the electric field book has passage that says this: 

" pg118
5 consequences of current flow


1 heating
2 electrochemical effect (electrolysis)
3 magnetic effect
4 rearrangement of charge
5 radiation of energy!
Electric charge radiates energy in the form of electromagnetic wave when it is accelerated or decelerated. Around a circuit with AC there is regular redistribution of charge and, in the surrounding space, a continual time-changing electric field witch we recognize as a displacement current. But the latter creates a time-changing magnetic field and this in turn, by transformer action, induces in the insulating region a time-changing voltage or electric field. So the electric and magnetic fields mutually create and support each other and in interacting propel radiant energy out into space. This phenomenon becomes of great importance at the higher (radio) frequencies. "


so if we accelerate ions they release radiant energy as a wave (wave guide resonant cavity), if you think of the interactions of the electric and magnetic field the water pump as the hyper drive can be achieved. Just using fields to accelerate it doesn't cost me any does it?




just found it Electric and magnetic fields, stephen attwood  for this you need to get a program that opens it (probably) easy to find-
http://www.megaupload.com/?d=V43MYEZT


I tried to find the bobrow book fundamentals of electrical engineering for you too but this one i couldn't find, its from oxford university! of course in amazon there is, maybe google library


Br

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 18, 2011, 16:56:14 pm
It also says that a conductor is dielectric with almost infinite dielectric constant! This mean that the polarizability very very very very very very high and so as is a conductor it has free charges so electrons can come out of it! so a conductor is a dielectric with infinite polarizability.


In my experiment that the energy in my house went down while touching just one wire to the charged isolated cell siting in the ground. The water had sodium hydroxide probably. I don't really remember. So water can real get a real net charge. If right circuit means is provided. For example if you put a lamp in series with the cell and feed with a full wave rectified connected to the mains and in the cell having the rectifier in the positive side and the
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2011, 02:28:37 am
Sebo,


I read that you burned your variac.  I've learned that my variacs last longer if I run them at 110 volts most of the time.  Lower output voltages use the windings and they sing louder and louder after a bit.  Running it at 110 or whatever your house voltage is helps keep them quieter and live longer.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2011, 02:59:32 am
Hi kick I didn't burned it in the end fortunately.. was only the fuse and as there was a capacitor in parallel with the fuse to prevent the mosfets from blowing when the fuse blows, it got into resonance with the primary creating a very high noize... I just changed the capacitor for a 100nf 600v and so when the fuse blow a smaller amount of current is allowed during fuse blowed condition.


I cut my E laminations into L's so i could together with the I cores construct and form now the closed loop core. I'm cutting some pieces of cd covers to add between the bobbin and the laminations for insulate it...


There are 8 cm for the bobbins to sit in and a big window. The laminations have 2 cm wide very thin... Oriented grain... i was cutting it with a shitty scissor.


The bobbins will have about 3,8cm space each for the windings.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 20, 2011, 11:22:06 am
Guys i have some good news.


Well i will propose something to you.


I talked to the teacher and he told me that if i provide the raw material he can help me make in the ovens in the university for free the barium titanate ceramics to test tay he patent. In the moment i have no money to buy stuff so here is the deal if anyone is interest in know if the barium titanate can work somehow to dissociate the water i suggest you to make a donation to me so i can buy the barium oxide and tinanium oxide and other stuff needed to make this experiment... otherwise i will do it only when i can afford it.


To make the electrodes we need to fuse the barium with the titanium forming a glass than this glass is smashed and from this powder the piece is made and took to sintering (cook at high temperature oven again) to form the ceramic.


The idea is that this ceramic will provide the field to the water while restricting the amps cause of its own characteristics there fore than is all about applying the high voltage fields.


 I will also be able to make some ferroelectric ceramics if i want. Piezo ... any kind just need money, otherwise if we make like the teachers (with financing from government) we are dependent on time and than also all the project become their cause i'm just a graduating student and they are the doctors.


So here it is the proposition, i have the labs and the professionals. I have three teachers (all doctors) interested and they are talking to other teachers too. The students in the university also got interested i will also try to collect money from them or make them help me to collect money for the research.


I hope they don't try to steal the idea, would be a real shame for them. Cause all the document existing, but hopefully this is not something we should worry about. Cause i'm planing to act real fast.


Br
Sebs



ps: i don't think is too expensive the barium titanate ceramic materials if not very very pure, anyway in the next days i will quote with the teacher the price +- .




Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 21, 2011, 16:30:28 pm



check this out guys.


Voltage is = to current * reactance.. so if you get for say 1 amp recirculating  and a reactance of 25kohms you have 25kv.


The coils can be divided into two bobbins if very high voltage is to be obtained! Like dan danfor design.


Now i understand that is not only tx5 coil resonating but also tx4 too and there could be two diodes to achieve perfect 360° resonance. And no secondary should be needed. I'm still thinking about that...


The charge goes to the negative electrode during pulse on (negative pulse) than the pulse terminates the blocking diode don't allow the capacitor to discharge than the charge need to flow thru the water to the other electrode during the discharge of the capacitor thru the switching diode and so one. So the purer is the water the greater is the resistance than the lower is the Q factor. But this is good cause also makes that the water develop a highvoltage pulse during the transition of the electrode charge, therefore electrons might eject from the atoms. Probably thats why it become a self oscillating system.


The initial charge aways unipolar going to the negative electrode originally came from the positive electrode and so on.


I'm finishing my vic i'm using 28awg wire and i wound about 1200 turns there is 22mh in air. Adding the closed loop core it can get up to 2 or at least 1 Henrie i think.


I made 13 insulated layers and they have the same coil winding directions. This will be my resonant charging chokes.


I will use the primary that i already have and try to induce the resonance. I guess will be pretty much easier with this big coils. 



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2011, 13:04:05 pm
I finished the charging chokes they have around 700mh with the core in it, without the core they have around 22,7mh 26ohms i fine adjusted the inductances to be equal by adding more laminations at the side needed.


i'm going to make some tests with this...


with my cell capacitance (330pf) makes the frequency to be 10khz, so there will be 20khz dc field going to the water. The reactance will be 44,6kohms so for every 1 amp recirculating there will be 44,6kv fields...


My Closed loop core is made of L's and I's taken from EI core. Oriented grain. Each lamination insulated from each other.


The bobbins have 13 layers each insulated from each other.


 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 10:11:33 am
Now seems that i could put the circuit to work better, the diode in parallel with the primary now has 1kohm resistor in series!!! without it the transistor didn't worked so well. And is not perfect yet, but at least can get up to 50 75 v without the 120hz behind. Now only 100ma flow...


My oscilloscope wasn't working again (burned resistor of one chanel) already changed.


so the primary now has the correct orientation in relation to the bobins.


I could get up to 200 volts in the tx5 (i have no secondary connected yet... i was applying around 50v 100ma to that primary, the coupling seems to be low.


I don't know what is happening, when i raise the voltage the frequency gets dirtier.


I'm now using irf840 it runs absolutely cool for now. Up to the point where the snubber capacitor blows... The good thing is that the mosfet now is not burning since i started using the diode in parallel with the primary, but it was not good cause was blocking the resonance, and also making the transistor to behave strange, so i added a resistor in series with this diode and so both resistor and diode are in series, wired across the primary. .

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 10:24:12 am
Electrovalent bound.


when the oxygen atom accept the hydrogen electrons during water formation it will hold the hydrogen electrons while hydrogen will receive the oxygen electrons (pair sharing)
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 16:58:04 pm
Irf840 gate burned while working without snubber... The signal without the snubber were much better.. anyway not going to do this anymore...


I was thinking about using a 100k resistor between the gate and the variable dc voltage source, what you think about this? Could this help somehow? anyone?









Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 17:21:05 pm
Now seems that i could put the circuit to work better, the diode in parallel with the primary now has 1kohm resistor in series!!! without it the transistor didn't worked so well. And is not perfect yet, but at least can get up to 50 75 v without the 120hz behind. Now only 100ma flow...


My oscilloscope wasn't working again (burned resistor of one chanel) already changed.


so the primary now has the correct orientation in relation to the bobins.


I could get up to 200 volts in the tx5 (i have no secondary connected yet... i was applying around 50v 100ma to that primary, the coupling seems to be low.


I don't know what is happening, when i raise the voltage the frequency gets dirtier.


I'm now using irf840 it runs absolutely cool for now. Up to the point where the snubber capacitor blows... The good thing is that the mosfet now is not burning since i started using the diode in parallel with the primary, but it was not good cause was blocking the resonance, and also making the transistor to behave strange, so i added a resistor in series with this diode and so both resistor and diode are in series, wired across the primary. .
Why are you using 50V for input to the primary? Isn't 12V what Stan used?
The magnetic coupling could be low due too thick plates. Are they laminated iron plates?

Br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 17:24:04 pm
Sebo,
the resistor will help but try to keep the gate voltage at 5 volts or so.  I'm smelling lots of ozone from my tinfoil wrapped cell.  btw, do you have a user guide or instructions for using your pll?  I found some time and got it done and was wondering why not just pick up a signal from the 8xa coil by using another coil just sitting next to it?
I use a irfbc40 mosfet, the fastest one I could find and rarely burn them out.  11ns switching
your thoughts?
kb
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 18:45:44 pm

Hi webmug,
I'm using a variac with a full wave bridge rectifier as the source of the electricity, i found it is handy to adjust the input impedance up to the limit of the core saturation, for example, at different frequencies the core will saturate at different voltage per turn in the primary.. so you just adjust the voltage up to the noize in the core is clean, is where the max voltage is found in the induced coils...


I think that i was over saturating thats maybe why i was burning so many mosfets, now that i'm able to measure the secondary voltage i'm seeing what happens when i push up the volume..



I'm concerned about the fact that the source impedance must be high enough to allow the resonance to happen..


I think that this is the problem here, in my old experiments in italy the resonance wasn't in the transformer, i was using the transformer to drive the resonant tank in parallel, in series also worked and was much easier to design but in parallel worked better...


I had a vic like but only with the secondary and a small choke after the diode (i was using a toroidal ferrite core) the choke was about 30 turns..


The voltages went up to 10kv... that time...


I'm thinking about reducing the laminations number to try to improve the quality factor and reduce further the coupling of the resonance to the primary..


I'm thinking also about having a air core coil in series with tx5 to see if helps letting the resonance happens..



My laminations are oriented grain very thin. Those for audio transformer.. was the only i could get different from those thick ones intended for 60hz...


I understood but now need to think better about the reflected impedances of the secondary in the primary and tx5 coil, i think that now i know how to determine it, this would be handy to understand how much load is being felt by the tank. So how to determine the Q...


I'm using pure water now and when i measure the voltage for example the other electrode non connected in relation to the outside




Hi kickbackemf,

I had two tip35 transistors here and i have now burned one but i have a good news, it now works very solid with the last one having the diode in parallel with the primary having a 1kohm resistor in series than all across the primary like i described before... Oh it also need a diode between the emiter and colector, after i added this it didn't burned anymore.


I also have a variable 10 turn 1kohm resistor between the base and the emiter, and i noticed that if i take it almost to 0 the voltage induced is greater. So i'm thinking about adding a 50 ohms resistor in series with the primary to see what happens. To change the input source impedance....
 
I think that a high voltage bipolar transistor would be nice for this project. The tip35 suport 100v 25 amps, works a bit warm, buts ok, one thing i noticed is that when it get higher in frequency more current is flowing instead of reducing... this is somewhat strange but seems to be better to work at high frequencies you just need to turn the variac down a bit to control the saturation of the core...


You mean ozone in the tin outside the cell? Is it happening to you? the resonance? what are your voltage levels?


For the pll you can use this last diagram i just changed it again... The only thing you need is to add some capacitors in the boar that i din't represented in the drawing. you could use a fast prototype board is very easy...


Yes you are right just need to to pick that signal up and close the resonance loop. 




I will try adding more resistance to the base of the tip to try changing the impedance... The bipolars are very nice cause they will turn on at low base current but will only let a current proportional to the gate current to pass to the primary.- this is very nice. So you can adjust the impedance. I think we could use one to control the current in the positive side and the other just to switch. Like his analog voltage generator.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2011, 19:43:07 pm
Sebo,


Thanks for the updated circuit.  Let me ask a silly question.  Since I run at 110 volts all the time through the variac would there be a problem I'm not thinking about in just connecting my bridge rectifier directly to a 110 volt wall plug?  The stong ozone smell is coming off the water bath.  I'm running 1700 volts as peak to peak on the oscope.  My latest winner in my assortment of coils is an iron powder three inch toroid reading 2.52H using 21 awg wound per 8xa.


kb, snow blizzard today so I'm home with the kids.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2011, 03:23:18 am
Hey kick, nice to have ozone water bath =) I'm using the variac 1° cause it allow you to adjust the impedance of the input impedance of the circuit, 2° cause it kind of limits the current to the maximum it can handle...


Do you know the current that is flowing there?


Does it behave this way only at a specific frequency? or voltage is high at all frequencies?




I just came back from the universe city =) and the other tip 35 blowed strangely... =(


Tomorrow i'm going to buy some more transistors and resistors capacitors and stuff.


I'm going to make a sculpture of the so many transistors i'm blowing hehe



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 25, 2011, 05:01:51 am

Today i went to the engineering school, and talked to a doctor in power electronics, for about 4 hours.


He corrected my snubber diagram, gave me a snubber capacitor (68nf 1.6kv), told me that bipolar transistors would be worst than mos or igbts, and suggested me to use igbt since i work under 20khz cause as it is a combined mos and bipolar it has the best from both worlds it only need a field to saturate and have low conduction losses. He said that the bipolar transistors is not very good at high frequencies again. 


He explained me about the magnetizing inductance and leakage, and so i understood that the energy of the leakage inductance must go to the snubber, the diode in parallel with the primary should have no more than 10 or 20 ohm in series (not 1kohm like i had).


The snubber will than have a high speed diode, the capacitor and a 100ohm non inductive resistor. (this will not let the leakage inductance during off pulse to develop high destruction voltage between gate and source)


In parallel with the primary there will be the diode having a 10 ohm resistor in series.... (this is to prevent the demagnetization current of the primary)


About the diode between the primary and the transistor he said is useless unless you are going to make bipolar switching( half wave, full wave drive, to prevent reverse current)


If the secondary and primary are wound one over the other  the leakage will be smaller.


Now here goes something,




The oriented grain laminations is not only about the thickness of the material. The way i cut and made my close loop core is completely wrong cause the I laminations and the L's i made were not in the right orientation for the bobbins. He told me that there is a fabric here where i can have oriented grain core made in whatever configuration i want. So basically if you don't use the grains with the right orientation, you are not using it well, at that point he told me that would be better to use non oriented core. He told me that the best thing was than to use a flyback core as is not oriented.. .


He also told me that the the thing is working and i want i can go there to make the measurements on the unit using oscilloscopes and the equipments.


VEry very very nice pearson.


He also explained to me the positions where the fuses must go, oh boy many things.


He told me that the best thing was to use a flyback transformer as is not oriented.. .


sebs
k ai ser
cheers


I think the vic would benefit from having all the coils wounded one over the other. Cause this would minimize the leakage, losses and the resonance would therefore induce or exchange the energy with the other coils in a better way.


I'm going to try modifying my core to benefit from the oriented grain... And i'm going to try get to the point tomorrow or this weekend if possible.


Can't wait to see.


If any of you don't know where to get OG cores and or have intention to have a core made in the shape and orientation you want we could make an arrangement.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 25, 2011, 05:11:17 am
The leakage inductance is like a series inductor with the primary and the magnetizing inductance is in parallel.


The fuse should go after the filter capacitor (after the variac and bridge) but the diode i had should maintain to protect my house line so he told me that the cap in parallel with fuse is not needed.


Also, the transformer feeding the circuit, (electronic) should go before the fuse, cause this can never be off when the variac is on and the voltage should be applied so only after the circuit is pulsing..



Almost forgot, between drain and source there might be also a high speed diode if is not already internally build in into the transistor.


So 3 diodes. (one snubber, one parallel with the transistor and the other parallel with the transformer.



$ 1 2.6E-7 3.7524723159601 53 9.92 50
v 160 288 144 432 0 2 3000.0 20.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
r 544 192 592 224 0 3000.0
T 432 192 544 320 0 0.04 10.0 2.420068870404547 -0.1676025239313738 0.5
c 592 224 656 320 2 9.0E-10 2993.2624381511214
d 256 208 368 192 1 0.805904783
c 368 192 368 256 0 1.0000000000000001E-7 -0.010644594757621917
d 368 320 368 256 1 0.805904783
r 336 272 368 192 0 100.0
w 336 272 368 256 0
l 544 320 656 320 0 0.1 -0.1676025239313738
r 320 320 368 320 0 2.0
r 368 320 432 320 0 3.0
w 368 192 432 192 0
w 144 432 256 432 0
w 256 432 256 384 0
v 144 192 144 112 0 0 40.0 100.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 144 112 256 208 0
w 144 192 144 432 0
d 256 352 384 352 1 0.805904783
d 256 384 256 352 1 0.805904783
r 256 352 384 384 0 100.0
c 256 432 384 432 0 6.8E-8 -0.05356864303075781
w 384 352 384 384 0
w 384 384 384 432 0
t 208 368 256 368 0 1 0.7205879924013274 0.7738753198778348 100.0
r 160 288 208 368 0 100.0
d 320 320 256 352 1 0.805904783
c 80 112 80 448 0 1.0E-5 100.0
w 80 112 144 112 0
r 80 448 144 432 0 1.0E-4
o 1 64 1 35 160.0 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 1 64 0 297 320.0 0.2 1 -1
o 3 64 0 42 20480.0 0.1 2 -1
o 7 64 1 291 299.3155353253689 9.765625E-55 3 -1
o 15 64 1 291 2560.0 9.765625E-5 4 -1
o 19 64 0 291 320.0 9.765625E-5 5 -1
o 20 8 1 35 640.0 9.765625E-5 6 -1
o 5 64 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 7 -1


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 26, 2011, 16:22:29 pm
As now i understand more about the working of a transformer i decided to make the vic like the 6:1 fig, with the coils wounded one over the other, cause i want to maximize the coupling and don't want to have the leakage inductance energy lost in the snubber... And want to maximize the induced pulse by resonance. The vic that i made closed loop here have many air gaps so the coupling is only 0,5 this is good for one thing and bad for other. If the secondary and 56 choke at least was wounded over the primary would be a major improvement already!   


So my secondary and choke will kind of be my snubber for this energy, in kick back mode, so this will add with the right phase,.




So i'm doing this way, the first choke is the resonant choke, over it the primary, over the primary the secondary and than the other choke.


This will have only the central leg of the E cores that i cut out to made my closed loop core as core.


I arranged the primary there because will be the ground state, i could made the primary under all the coils but the negative coil would have high potential to the primary so there could leak some electrons.


Therefore the core will need to be very well insulated.


If the coupling of the resonance is too big i will than disconnect this coil and wound a coil having a spacing relationship around the vic in such a way that i can insert the vic in the coil to  adjust the coupling of the resonance to the load. (secondary)


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 28, 2011, 00:10:24 am
Ok now everything is up and running, i think the HEXFET i'm using now will not blow anymore, i'm using an irfpg50 now, running very nicely its rated 1000v 6 amps 2ohm rds on . The snubber made the difference.


I still get only a good behavior of the vic if there is a resistor in series with the diode (in parallel with the primary) (at high voltage levels this 1k resistor is frying and it is 5 watts ceramic)


Now i can switch up to 300v no problems. The snubber resistor get very hot, i have here 70 ohm wire wounded non inductively, (i made it around a ceramic non ferromagnetic core), as i said before the snubber capacitor is 1600v 68nf blue, and there is a 1200v 30 amp ultra fast diode in parallel with the resistor...


Well now come the interesting part, i'm not able to measure the voltage on the water, or the resonant tank, however i see the bubbles coming out like stan bubbles, very much like a fog, not very big production but is very strange. When i put the positive in the inner tube almost no bubbles come out of it but when i connect the negative inside, considerable bigger amount than previous configuration gas is generated.


So the negative must be the inner electrode.




The water was completely pure and generated the same gas as when i added sodium hydroxide, when little bit less but the same kind of bubbles.


The is also a water mist fog coming out of the water much like those for humidifiers.


I think that i'm in the right way.


The gate don't change much here, nothing perceptible. 


=) =) =)


My calculated resonance F is far higher than i can measure with my equipments here, 100khz, but i'm going to try adding some capacitors in parallel so to reduce the frequency and see what happens.


B.R.
sebs
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 28, 2011, 05:55:31 am
I think that the thing is working but at a low level, now i have to measure with a voltmeter that works, to be able to determine how to improve or where to tune.. The multimeter i have here show crazy voltages.


Now all i need to match is the vic.


I thought of making isolation transformer made as current source so i can input in the primary ever increasing voltage. This will prevent the high voltage developed in the primary.


I'm going to ask to the teacher what he think about that. I think that i'm going to take the prototype to the university to make some measurements there if possible.


I found the curriculum of the teacher, he is graduated in physics and electrical engineering and has master degree in power electronics and switches, and doctor in thre-phase...
hope he helps


If you are interested go watch the lessons in mit about solid state chemistry, there is a lecture where he explain the lone pairs and dipole-dipole interaction the hydrogen bounding and many other things. There are many interesting lectures.


If you watch it you will fell like stan also knew what he talk about in the lecture. So i think also about the inventor i know here.


He explain that the hydrogen bound is very strong in some cases cause the hydrogen being positively charged it will bound to form to the lone pairs of the oxygen to form liquid water. So become obvious where the electrons come from During the polarization. 


I have a very good felling about that.


The lecture about ionic bounds also is very cool so as the particle wave duality.


I watched 5 lectures yesterday
very cool
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 28, 2011, 14:30:41 pm
keep it up sebo.  i love reading about your progress.
Title: Good Bad news!
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 28, 2011, 19:13:49 pm
My crap multimeter burned during those crasy voltage measurements. I opened it to see if there was something carbonized and there wasn't than i thought why not to try again to see if i can make my good multimeter to work, i opened it again and though, what if i lost some of the tracks jumper during the time it was open around here... Conclusion, i found that one of the tracks was missing the jumper (those jumpers in the button you turn to select the multimeter functions) and than i used one of the burned multimeter in it and voila i got it to work.


As is a very good multimeter now i can see that bubbles start to come out from the tubes at around 20v with pure water, and i can push up to 200v for now.


very happy here,


the only thing that is not working is the continuity meter. it keeps bipping without anything connected...


Thanks idontsmellgood for take the time to read.


hope is worth in the end
Title: Resonance found close to predicted frequency
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 28, 2011, 19:25:52 pm
resonance found close to 108khz the voltage when to more than 1000v, however the production didn't changed much... woking on that.. .
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 30, 2011, 00:19:37 am
great results man i'm glad you got the circuit working properly. You've created the stress on the water and it sounds like your getting the small misty production that i am. Now its all about manipulating the molecule.
i'll be watching your progress
keep up the good work!! and thanks for everything so far
 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 30, 2011, 05:21:11 am
Hello Dave,


yes i'm getting a small water misty coming out of the water too, I have seeing this before in italy when i used the resonance in series too 2 or 3 years ago, but for me is very perceptible now cause i have a bright lamp over me to work, I think it happens due to some of the hydrogen bounds being broken so the water molecules becoming like a fog of bounded molecules, you know like those humidfiers.. Those use ultrasonic piezo to shake the water and brake the hydrogen bounds, the incredible here is that by only applying the voltage to the water we are already shaking it.


You are right, now is only about manipulate the molecules to do what i want them to do. At the right frequency.


I have just arrived from university, and now and tomorrow i will have some more little time for experimenting, hope doing some progress.


i went today to the engineering school but i had to talk to another professor, this one didn't understood fully the process of the resonance, so he couldn't help me design the lsolation transformer i wanted, buts ok i'm going to try it empirically. He suggested me to make simulation of the model of the transformer with psim. He told me however that would be better to well design the vic as only one unity. I just thought of this cause of meyer mentions to pulse shaping network, witch in my point of view would really help improving the design. I will come back there with some of meyer diagrams next time so they can identify something i couldn't as a musician. =)


Hope i will be able to use the winding machine in the university to make some more transformers. This would make my life easier.


My intention here is to let you know what i do wrong and right so you me and all can learn from my trials and errors wish all could do this.


I would like to buy some materials to make the cell having a delrin around it but got no money this time, so i will have to get what i have to work, otherwise no deal.


This makes things easier cause we got to do what we got to do. = )


B.r.
Sebs
Title: Vic and cell signal speechless
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2011, 14:12:30 pm
Speechless
Title: Re: Resonance found close to predicted frequency
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2011, 14:26:42 pm
resonance found close to 108khz the voltage when to more than 1000v, however the production didn't changed much... woking on that.. .
Hey sebosfato, I have more things for you to think about...

My quess why your gas production is low is because:
1. You do not "Restrict Amps";
2. "Resonant Action" is not started.
You know what Stan means with tunable inductor? Right?

Current will never be restricted when inductors are the same and "Resonant Action" can't be started because charge q and q' are not equal.

When you make a simulation and check the frequency response of the chokes you get lower voltage amplitudes!
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1305.msg19012#msg19012 (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1305.msg19012#msg19012)
Only equal and opposite voltages at the plates can result in resonant action and current is restricted that's why stan indicates "tunable choke" to "tune" to "Resonant Action"!

Think about it, what happens with properties of the choke when it's tunable?

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2011, 14:36:58 pm
Hi webmug,


I believe he meant tuned not only because is tunable, but because it is in resonance. However yes it must yet be tuned and i think that i understood how.


Basically to restrict the ams the induced voltage (red) by the resonance current must = the resonant voltage (across tx5) or be even be a little bigger than it, so in my understanding this mean that the secondary must have exact the same turns of tx5 and tx4 but the last tx4 must completely cancel the tx5 inductance, for this to be achieved, of course coupling is not perfect so i'm still thinking how to match it. 


I think that trifilar is the way, however i think that a triple coating wire must be used. to be able to ensure it can held maybe 10kv insulation. 


would be a good idea to have a variable secondary, and tx5 coil, and also primary...=)
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2011, 14:57:50 pm
Hi webmug,


I believe he meant tuned not because is tunable, but because it is in resonance. However yes it must yet be tuned and i think that i understood how.


Basically to restrict the ams the induced voltage by the resonance must = the resonant voltage or even be a little bigger than it, so in my understanding this mean that the secondary must have exact the same turns of tx5 and tx4 but the last must completely cancel the tx5 inductance, for this to be achieved, of course coupling is not perfect so i'm still thinking how to match it. 


I think that trifilar is the way, however i think that a triple coating wire must be used. to be able to ensure it can held maybe 10kv insulation.
Why not checking out the VIC BOX picture. All coils are separate mounted on that core.
Mostly the insulation coating for wire is 2500V when you don't go higher than that, the wire is good enough.
Don't know it how high it can get with step charge. Make sure you have the primary input voltage amplitude low for testing. 8)

Br,
Webmug
Title: Leading the world revolution
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2011, 15:05:47 pm
yeah I know, but that way the coupling can be really bad, with makes difficult to match the things. and also makes the transistor to hard work cause of increased dispersion (leakage inductance) (energy that is not couple or transferred) 


Maybe the step charging wont get so high I thought this too, I mentioned the tricoating to ensure the vic wont burn so the work is not wasted.


we are getting there!


When the coupling is to small or open circuit core, you have to use maxwell equations to be able to determine the transformer interactions.


The closed loop cores can help avoiding this mathematical problem.


Br
sebs
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2011, 18:29:12 pm
The imaginary pulse, is the doubled pulse, but it is also felt in the primary too if you put the oscilloscope across the primary under resonance you will see a square wave having during the off time another pulse of the same polarity.



Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2011, 19:31:48 pm
Sebo,


Here's something to try that I'm playing with to reduce amps.  It seems to work well.  I've reached over 2K volts with my 8xa inductors yet have about a 1/2 amp I can't get rid of with 110 volts off the variac.  By connecting a 150 watt light bulb between the negative plate and the neg lead in i've been able to reduce the amps on the gauge to nearly zero.  It does not reduce gas production.  The light bulb pulses on and off with the gating and is an fine visual indicator.  Now I'm trying to find that elusive and supposed special pulse train length and timeoff length to match my plate gap which is 1 MM.     give it a try for shits and grins............. 


kb
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 01, 2011, 04:50:44 am
thats interesting! i'm gonna try the light bulb thing too
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 01, 2011, 19:44:17 pm
Nice thought, will check that... thanks

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 03, 2011, 00:26:45 am
Every time my fuses blow my transistors burn.


I don't know what to do, i'm even thinking about using the alternator setup to generate the pulses. I think that the resonant frequency of the electrical resonance must match the water frequency somehow...
maybe ad some laser energy..

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 03, 2011, 00:37:20 am
I'm thinking about the fact that in one patent the resonant charging chokes use a thicker wire, and has only 100 turns, the fact that they can be bifilar tells us that there cannot be more than 2kv across the water...


So i have 3 theories, one is that the tuned choke is the only choke resonating, the other is that also the other resonant charting choke is in resonance with the water capacitance but in series.


So basically i'm going to adjust the resonant coil in respect to the other to form a parallel and a series resonance being the tx4 in resonance in series with the water and the other in parallel with the cell (plastic) capacitance.


The other is about reflected waves in the coils like in transmission lines. but i'm sure i don't know enough about it.
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2011, 04:02:35 am
I know I am late to input anything here, so sorry up front.


Your transistors seem to die because they are loosing power to the base, the resonance still stresses the collector and emitter.


So get a second supply for driving the base - also (for not seeing the setup) consider switching to mosfets and put a 12 volt ZD on the base ( edit base should say Gate) to ground.


I skipped most of this tread, as time is limited, I can see what you started saying about charging and discharging the cell itself.


Did you connect a wire to the outside of the cell (with foil around the outside cell?), I read the first few pages looking for a photo, then skipped to the last few pages, will get to the middle soon.


warj1990


Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2011, 02:19:35 am
Guys i have some good news.


Well i will propose something to you.


I talked to the teacher and he told me that if i provide the raw material he can help me make in the ovens in the university for free the barium titanate ceramics to test tay he patent. In the moment i have no money to buy stuff so here is the deal if anyone is interest in know if the barium titanate can work somehow to dissociate the water i suggest you to make a donation to me so i can buy the barium oxide and tinanium oxide and other stuff needed to make this experiment... otherwise i will do it only when i can afford it.


To make the electrodes we need to fuse the barium with the titanium forming a glass than this glass is smashed and from this powder the piece is made and took to sintering (cook at high temperature oven again) to form the ceramic.


The idea is that this ceramic will provide the field to the water while restricting the amps cause of its own characteristics there fore than is all about applying the high voltage fields.


 I will also be able to make some ferroelectric ceramics if i want. Piezo ... any kind just need money, otherwise if we make like the teachers (with financing from government) we are dependent on time and than also all the project become their cause i'm just a graduating student and they are the doctors.


So here it is the proposition, i have the labs and the professionals. I have three teachers (all doctors) interested and they are talking to other teachers too. The students in the university also got interested i will also try to collect money from them or make them help me to collect money for the research.


I hope they don't try to steal the idea, would be a real shame for them. Cause all the document existing, but hopefully this is not something we should worry about. Cause i'm planing to act real fast.


Br
Sebs



ps: i don't think is too expensive the barium titanate ceramic materials if not very very pure, anyway in the next days i will quote with the teacher the price +- .




I tried 80,000 volts on this setup, using epoxy.  It didn't do squat - that is why i went back to direct electrode design.  At 50 kv the water should have been separating according to my work and the patent.


 You can get hi purity powder form off ebay fairly cheap. 
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2011, 02:38:23 am
All right guys all caught up, my head hurts after all that reading. :P


Please post the latest schematic of your setup, I see the continued problem of mosfets, IGBT's, and transistors failing.


( I warn you I was never that great with transistors, but mosfets and IGBT's - bring them on!)


At resonance, parallel, your driving voltage will jump by PIE, so input X 3.14159 = mosfet drain source rating min.  The more Rds(on) you have the larger the heat sink needed.









Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2011, 10:57:59 am
I know I am late to input anything here, so sorry up front.


Your transistors seem to die because they are loosing power to the base, the resonance still stresses the collector and emitter.


So get a second supply for driving the base - also (for not seeing the setup) consider switching to mosfets and put a 12 volt ZD on the base ( edit base should say Gate) to ground.


I skipped most of this tread, as time is limited, I can see what you started saying about charging and discharging the cell itself.


Did you connect a wire to the outside of the cell (with foil around the outside cell?), I read the first few pages looking for a photo, then skipped to the last few pages, will get to the middle soon.


warj1990


You had 80K volts across your cell???????????

Steve
Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2011, 23:02:01 pm
Yes, 80,000 volts across this Tay Hee Hann (spelling ?) cell.


Also had a 20 x voltage multiplier inline with the X-former output.


Notice:
Epoxy coated secondary.
Epoxy built cell.
Alternating leads,
(Hot-Water-Ground)
(Ground-Water-Hot)
Etc...
also tried a single lead, (Hot-water-ground)


Silver wire connections.


1/16 inch water channel, stationary and moving water design/tested.


NOT one bubble produced.  So I built the cell in my projects section.
At 80 kv the field strength should have been 4.3 times greater than that of the water.


(not shown is my HV probe).

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2011, 00:14:08 am
Have you tried to use a bias voltage/current?
Meaning having the watermols aligned with 1amp and then apply the hv?

Title: Re: Stan Resonance finally cracked! by Sebosfato
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2011, 02:14:57 am
The direct water connected electrode idea was not tried.


I was having a difficult time keeping the gap even,  so I didn't want to mess up the setup.


I was planning on buying a milling machine for this project, but the "demo" failed, so I lost the need for it (for now).