Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!
Archive => Bob Boyce => Topic started by: hydro on February 04, 2008, 15:01:16 pm
Title: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2008, 15:01:16 pm
Hello,, After Living with and testing the alternator over a period of time great knowledge grows on you.
i have found the reason my alternator setup really works so well, it is because it uses 3 phase Harmonics, very much like the harmonics that opera singers use to break glass, but this type of harmonic that bustes water found by the alternator and bob boyces setup is intermingled, or 3 in 1.
to who does not build the alternator, atleast build the bob boyce circuit! Here is the link., http://pesn.com/2007/09/29/9500450_BobBoyce_Electrolizer_Plans/d9.pdf
Bob Tuned into the Harmonic Resonate Frequency Of Water!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! just like we did with the 3 phase harmonics from the alternator.
Harmonics is used to break things, and the high gas output i seen inside my cell did not come from amps and volts people, there was something else causing this high gas yield, "THE RESONATE FUEL CELL" where the harmonic waves causes the Water Molecule to Break Just like the opera singer causes the Glass to shatter.
The Resonate fuel cell is now understood(bob boyce) and Has been understood(bob boyce) and OVERLOOKED by ME for a long time now. after realizing why the alternator works so good, and comparing that to BOB BOYCE system, IT IS CLEAR ALL YOU NEED IS RESONATE!!!!!!!!
Anyone to work with Any resonate type cell please post your info here, 2008 brings to us a new year of understanding what is really going on here.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2008, 03:30:53 am
Hi hydrocars,
I did test the 3PH resonance drive circuit before but didn't measure gas output. I find it's a bit hard to tune the right frequency in three phases and ended up with blowing mosfets. I will go back to this circuit once I got some free time. I suggest you guys focus along this direction and probably can get results faster since the method already tested by Bob Boyce. There must be some hidden secret Bob never release to public.
If some effort put into this line, I'm confident that you guys can break the rule. Frequency 10.7kHz, 21.4kHz and 42.8kHz. Happy experimenting.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2008, 15:35:52 pm
nice info guys, well im not sure if the circuit works with or without electrolite, in the pdf link i posted it tells you, i just forgot. I NEVER USE ELECTROLYTE! I NEVER HAVE, i have used salts for test, but maybe 2 or 3 times.
the alternator is resonating with the fuel cell. you do get free hydrogen when you hit resonance, apararently the 3 phase harmonics does just that, but its not alot of free hydrogen it should still be taken to the next level.
im not sure if stan woke up one day and said hey, i want to hook my cell to a alternator to get 3 phase harmonics to super bust the water? or if he hooked it up by accident and seen that the harmonics could be used to cause a tremendous gas output and quickly forgot about the alternator and started on resonate frequencys.
we should take this further.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2008, 04:52:18 am
Would you say the main differences between your alt. set up and boyce's schematics is boyce uses an electrolite such as koh and you use just water? I've haven't seen any post where you use an electrolite.
Keep it simple. What ever information related to Bob Boyce method uses electrolyte (28% KOH) and what ever information related to Stan Meyer does not use electrolyte (just tap water with little conductive). I'm using Bob Boyce method now.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2008, 15:03:29 pm
It looks like we are all thinking about using 3 frequencies now. So do you think a 6 plate series cell should be used on our 12 V systems? Boyce also says 1.5 V per cell for a resonant system so hence Kumaran with his 8 plates. His system uses a plate cell like the ZooFFer cell
I had a go at winding a 2" TORROID with 30 metres of wire at the weekend and it took 4 hours to make a 2 to 1 ratio transformer. 10 metres primary and 20 metres secondary winding. I am not so impressed with the results of the transformer yet so intend to try the CCT output direct to the cell at first.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2008, 05:18:55 am
I found someone on ebay selling a Bob Boyce PWM3G Electrolyser Kit c/w PCB (http://i23.ebayimg.com/02/i/000/ca/cc/3969_1.JPG)
Would ya'll recommend this?
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2008, 11:37:42 am
Hi,
what are the critics on this ebay seller? If they are good, and you wanna make a Bob circuit...and electrics is not yr best point.... I would say go for it..unless the price is sky high.
br
steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2008, 08:26:54 am
I'm in the process of assembling a large cell with two rows of 61 plates, 6" x 7" 14 ga, but they're 304, not 316 SS.
Cross sanded one batch, but I think I'll polish the other set to compare.
ALready got the UHMW milled, but it bowed so I gotta relieve the back side.
This is heavy-duty stuff, with heavy duty turtlebucks spent so far.
It all takes lotsa time.
Turtle
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2008, 08:54:00 am
i cant wait to see it turtle!!!! and if you're going to run the boyce circuit id love to see that!
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2008, 09:42:06 am
Hi Keith,
That is a very very S-cell! Question: do you also do the "wrap a coil around the plates" treatment with your plates? This cell is made for with the bob boyce circuit, a think, or has Pneu Engine already a new type of circuit developed for you?
br bro steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 14, 2008, 06:05:05 am
There won't be any field generated around the outside, only power applied to the end plates.
I also have a 61 plate of 3" x 3" 22 ga 304 assembled to test, but I need to seal up the bottom with a perf plate for e-lyte flow. Hope to drive it with something Boyce as well.
Also, I'm gonna drive to meet Bob and take the cells with me to get his preferred driver. But that won't be till I git everything assembled and tested on straight DC so's I have a baseline.
P E is focused on Meyer stuff and I'm building four con tube cells for him. I'm also gonna spool up his torroids and VIC... that oughta be a challenge.
Pretty busy, and 60+ hours at work only heps the research budget, not time in the lab
Turtle
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 14, 2008, 09:24:46 am
Keith,
Nice to hear that you meet Bob. Bring him our regards! So, you are a NO sleeper as well........ That creates a bond!
br steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 16, 2008, 04:24:00 am
Night shift rules- while the rats are away the turtles will play-
I work alone.
Turtle
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2008, 11:26:39 am
yeah turtle, everone always says the talking to bob.... i cant never figure out how to contact the man? anyhow... if you havent already droven up there when you do get there, ask bob what does he think about using full rectified 3 phase harmonics with his torroide.
i have seen that when a coil changes polarity it creates a sort of magnetic field, i think of it as electric fields but others refere to it is potential magnetics. if it is these fields we're after then pulsing the primary of bobs setup with 3 phase till you get harmonics would be the way to go???????
harmonics is when all coils are changing states very rapidly in tune with each other, i say in tune, but each coil changes polarity one right after the other, this is a steady flow of potential magnetics or electric fields, whatever you want to call it.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2008, 11:30:42 am
just to help you understand, this is how the alternator works, the stator is constantly changing states when you hit harmonics. bob has 3 primary coils and one secondary, if you pulse all 3 primarys then the secondary will change states very fast, its clearly the fields we're after here "i think"
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 21, 2008, 15:36:05 pm
Hey Hydro,
Bob replied to me through yahoo water4fuel watercar group. That group has gotten so huge and I get 70+ e-mails a day from them, so I'm thinking about leaving the group. This is his yahoo e-mail: Removed by Hydro
This was his reply to me:
It's not worth continuing.
Steven Harris goes overboard to obtain products of math for typical poorly efficient Faraday style electrolysis, then tries to apply that math to everything. He is so off base when it comes to boosting with hydroxy gas.
Nothing in Stevens math accounts for the typically higher production efficiency of common ducted hydroxy gas generation, nor does he account for the much higher combustion energy obtained by adding hydroxy gas to hydrocarbon fuels. It takes far less than 5% per BTU to get a significant boost using hydroxy gas, unlike tank hydrogen. All of Stevens data and experience (what little there is as compared to the real expert, Roy McCallister) are with tank hydrogen, not hydroxy gas. At least Roy McCallister is honest about it, and will tell anyone that asks that he has no experience with hydroxy gas. Steven Harris cops an attitude like you're pissing in his ear or something if you bring up the subject.
Bob
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 21, 2008, 17:41:59 pm
thank you kevin, i'll try and get up with bob asap, my energy for today has escaped me :/
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2008, 20:03:54 pm
Bob replied to me through yahoo water4fuel watercar group. That group has gotten so huge and I get 70+ e-mails a day from them, so I'm thinking about leaving the group. This is his yahoo e-mail: REMOVED
This was his reply to me:
It's not worth continuing.
Steven Harris goes overboard to obtain products of math for typical poorly efficient Faraday style electrolysis, then tries to apply that math to everything. He is so off base when it comes to boosting with hydroxy gas.
Nothing in Stevens math accounts for the typically higher production efficiency of common ducted hydroxy gas generation, nor does he account for the much higher combustion energy obtained by adding hydroxy gas to hydrocarbon fuels. It takes far less than 5% per BTU to get a significant boost using hydroxy gas, unlike tank hydrogen. All of Stevens data and experience (what little there is as compared to the real expert, Roy McCallister) are with tank hydrogen, not hydroxy gas. At least Roy McCallister is honest about it, and will tell anyone that asks that he has no experience with hydroxy gas. Steven Harris cops an attitude like you're pissing in his ear or something if you bring up the subject.
Bob
Thanks a whole lot Kevin for posting my email address in the open in a public group. I have been deluged with spam since you did this, now I know why. Thanks to you I have to drop another perfectly good email address and obtain another one. You can bet this next one will not be given out to anyone in the groups!
Bob
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2008, 20:32:47 pm
hehehe
i recon u got quite a few mails and just as many question, im shure he didnt intend for this tho if ur the Bob im thinking of, i hope it was just releaving of some steam, and not that ur steping down from the HHO research btw do u know if pulses hawe been used on PEM cells or hawe u tried it?
BR
Mr Browngass
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2008, 01:04:55 am
i've taken the email down, even if it doesn't help.
from now on, any emails i find will be removed.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2008, 01:06:41 am
to all, i have been studying bob boyce's work for some time as well as many others. i have found a PDF file with detailed instructions about getting a car to run on water. this has the full construction of a 61 plate cell, with the electronics and many other components that he uses. I was wondering if anyone had experimented with his plate technology and have had any success?
Badnova
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2008, 10:51:21 am
Quote from: Login to see usernames
Thanks a whole lot Kevin for posting my email address in the open in a public group. I have been deluged with spam since you did this, now I know why. Thanks to you I have to drop another perfectly good email address and obtain another one. You can bet this next one will not be given out to anyone in the groups!
Bob
This e-mail is already open to 7,000 people in the watercar forum so adding it to a forum of 114 members should not have done what you claim. None the less I apologize for adding it to this forum.
-Kevin
PS: We could sure use another good brain around here so don't run off to quickley.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2008, 17:38:39 pm
http://waterpoweredcar.com/pdf.files/D9.pdf
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 18, 2008, 06:59:12 am
cars do run on water so does diesels! to run a diesel on water all you have to do is get the engine hot and switch over to water.. This has been tested and it worked. Even stanley meyer later own used a direct water injector to run his engine 125 psi directly into the cylinder chamber. The problem is when you run directly off water your engine does not hold up. from what i've herd from a local source is a diesel engine will only last about 3 months.
i'm unsure of what hydrogen gas will do to an engine but it want be no where near as bad as using pure water. Bob boyce uses additives and he conditions his cells well. it takes him many days to do this and Sometimes if you get a contaminated conditioning process you have to start all back over. bobs cell produces a crapload of hydrogen but his hydrogen is different than the hydrogen you would produce without using additives. it appears like there is a lack of oxygen when additives are used.
i've herd that bob said at a certain frequency the hydrogen does change but i'm still unclear of what the change may be, it still cant compare to clean hydrogen. When you condition a cell like that and you apply the right wave forms like bob has applied then you do get a burst of hydroxy but this burst requires additives, our enemy. so therefor there is certain area's where bobs setup is very benifitable over normal electrolysis.
bobs setup also requires neutral plates, without additives his setup would not work period. The reason bobs cell is so energy efficient is because when he applies the pure Dc power to the plates the take a great charge made possible from the additives, there's something odd happening with his cell when he does this, and it works. bob then applies another wave on top of that pure dc wave to break the bonds of water. Why cant this be done without additives? it can, you havent found the proper cell setup yet.
for this to be true with out additives there must be a no additive cell, meaning, a cell that is in series that will conduct and take a charge without additives.. when you find this cell, you can do what bob does without additives and your hydroxy will be clean. but producing the hydrogen and knowing what to do with it is another story. with bobs setup you produce it and use it directly after its produced. bobs gas is great on demand. each way has their advantages. but bob is real and has spent much time in doing this gas from water stuff. its understandable that bob uses additives, this is his way of doing things.
there's more to stans technology than what i' have offered to the public, and there's nothing wrong with mixing magic tricks into this technology like stan has done. my research is mostly done by me alone where my sidekicks gets lured away and sometimes i do get thrown but i always manage to pull things back together. it's like a weed that messes with your head but the buzz can go away if you put the pipe down, and the longer you let the pipe be the clearer things get.
it would be good for many of you to go back and learn how the atom was found and the history behind it. who and how the little atom was discovered anyways? how did they know electrons exist and who discovered that and how?
back to my hole lol.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 18, 2008, 07:45:02 am
Aloha, h2opower, Why do you use this name? You said "...Bob really is not on the right track" 50 liters a minute is not on track? Frequencies? Which have you personally been successful with? You made reference to Dr. X. For the first time I ever posted this anywhere, I believe that it was Marcel Vogel who made this discovery, as Dr. X. He was a famous and interesting inventor who did a great deal of research in water. The Gov was spying on him because of the results he acquired. I recently met a man who worked with him a great deal, and he told me a story very similar to the Dr. X story of water disassociation. You need to do more research on Bob, check out Patrick Kellys writings. You talk about puppets, these are the people who believe what they are told without questioning, like for example people who think petrol is an acceptable fuel. Read about the Illuminotii if you want to understand why we are not permitted to use water as a fuel. Dingle- same thing. After promises from his gov, he was dropped like an epidemic. Now he understands the reality of opportunities in water fuel. Bill
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 18, 2008, 13:50:38 pm
Hi guys,
The best thing is still doing. Run tests. Find out if sertain things work or not. I agree that there is a lot of crap out there. And some are delivered on purpose to mislead the people. I have seem many examples. Its very easy to do.
As long as people like Dingel and others dont share there info, its up to you and me.
Br Steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 21, 2008, 20:02:04 pm
i've never heard of the automotive x challenge. The reason i have not tried to contact dingle is because for one, i do not know how to contact him... another reason is i am unsure his car is even running on water. as i said in the the previous post running a car on water is not a problem, all you have to do is force the water threw a diesel injector and under the diesel compression something happens when the block is hot, Stanley meyers ran his car this way also. if anyone of you have a diesel engine that you do not care about, try it, get the block hot and switch over to water.. assuming this will destroy your engine after a period of time based on what i've herd about it.
about the additives im not sure how potasium hydroxide is different from sodium hydroxide, i know sodium hydroxide is 100% drain cleaner, not sure about the other. i know i would not dare drank the water because it makes me sick just smelling it, i paid 8 dollars for a bottle of sodium hydroxide, used it, and it cracked all my plastic containers, i threw almost a hole bottle away, i don't want it in my house ever again!
i think dingle may have been using gas before he switched over to water... if i could talk with him,, i would ask him.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 25, 2008, 12:34:27 pm
I am enjoying these discussions of hydrogen extraction in this and other forums. I just wanted to make an observation about the Daniel Dingle comment.
The question was raised whether or not he even ran his car on water or water and gas. I don't know how he did it, but I did notice that under the hood of his car were many chemical formulas and I tend to lean toward him using a variation of hydrogen alloys. Metal Hydrides if implemented correctly could easily supplement a liquid gas. Maybe as some have suggested even run a car. People have posed building the cars frame and other body parts out of the hydrides. Well any rate that is my two cents for now ;D
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 25, 2008, 13:54:16 pm
Aloha, From my research on Dingle, I have learned the following. It is said that his cell was a battery which contained salt water. Modifications internally were unknown. It does separate hydrogen from oxygen. It runs on high voltage, probably one or more auto coils. If these are fired by the ignition, then increased RPM should result in increased output. He did start the cell for a period of time before starting car. There is a good discussion group in Yahoo. Countless people have contacted or tried to contact him. Likely he has become justly paranoid after being repeatedly lied to, threatened, and abused. Like Mr. Boyce, who has run cars, boats, and who knows what on hydrogen. Bob has been the victim of unjust litigation because of his practices, and some expect him to jump out and get their cars running on hydrogen for them. See "A Practical Guide to Free-Energy Devices" by Patrick Kelly, Chapter 10: Automotive Systems, "137 pages waterfuel.pdf". There you will read that not only did Bob make 50 LPM, but 100 LPM in short bursts. I asked why you use the name h2opower because you seem very critical of the water fuel pioneers, and water for fuel itself. You must be aware Stan did his best, if his work remains misunderstood, it is unlikely that it is his fault. Bill
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 25, 2008, 15:02:26 pm
he is running a pancheo generator it uses aluminum , magnesium plates and bauxite ore which contains gallium mixed with salt water it creates pure hydrogen gas
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 02:27:33 am
Please i wish someone would lay something on the table, This could save me the trouble..
Gas is high, and its getting higher... you people are about to see a change in this world for the worse.. gas prices will never go down, they will go up until gas runs out or something takes over and thats the fact.
I pointed out to you a few post back what you should be learning, if you're unsure that you are right about something, then you probably don't know. if you are sure you know, then you know. Stan knew he needed a master patent way before he ever ever got his first patent, he was a business man! Stan told you CLEARLY that he used the KISS METHOD.
Stan did not Get a patent "running a car on water," Stan got several Small patents "it was thought out." ("you cant patent a car that runs on water") in the end when the master patent put all the small patents together, it was one big patent saying a car can run on water.. so all these patents put together runs a car on water! and stan then own the rights to this technology.
("stans goal was to slick the patent office") and thats just what he did! for that, he has the impossible patent, the patent it took him so long to get! he knew they would not give him the patent he wanted so he found a way to get it! he had this all thought out before he ever patented anything... he knew what he wanted.. if stan was alive and his technology was in use, he would be leader of the world! he would carry the most money. The people did not realize what stan had until the Master patent came along, it was then they seen what had happened, this is how it worked.
what does all this have to do with this post? well, you're picking a very small patent, the resonate water patent, and you're are trying to run a car on it ignoring all the other patents. there is more than 1 way to do the same thing, you don't have to use a hammer to drive a nail, the hammer can be substituted. The hammer is so simple and it works great! "it drives the nail right in," but its not your invention! so you create whats called a nail gun, and that is yours when you patent it! so now the nail gun shows another way it can be done and if you choose to use the nail gun then you can accomplish the same job!
my point is its hard to patent something thats so known, and simple, without new ways of doing something already done, there would have been no stan meyer patents, but stan is the one that brought forth Pulsed DC and took it up a level, but if you think water resonate and boil out of a cell then you're out of your flippin mind, stan will look you in the eye and tell you he has a resonate cavity, and he does, it does resonate, for that he wins this patent. but just because the water resonates doesn't mean thats what he used, in the way he did make the water resonate, but the fact is it was proved and used to gain the patent he needed.
in the end, you will see that every methode stan used was possible, and nothing he did was overunity or mind blowing. but he had to blow minds to get this technology where he got it.
a good example is: A man in an ice cube for 3 days, in this cube he is free to move around. Due to the weather outside the worker men has to keep the ice cold or it will melt. The man proves that he can stay in that tube for 3 days, you can see him in the tube shaking, he looks like he is going to die.
people watch, and they wait, 3 days passes and the cube is cut apart, and the workers pull the suffering man from the cube. the onlookers wonders if he will make it. The man lives and he proved that he "survive the cube." What you did not see is each time the workers blowed the cube to keep it from melting is his twin opened the door beneth his feet, as the ice was fogged by the workers you cant see in this cube, the twin brother would then rais up behind him as he makes his way down the hole, there is a room there with a refrigerator and tv where he gets to sleep and relax for 2 hours at a time, the brothers switch up every hour or so, so they dont freez.
Now, the man that was cut out from the cube, was he a liar? NO, he made it threw the 3 days.
the point is, you don't see everything, if it seems to good to be true, thats because it is.
you know the man was in the cube for 3 days, and for someone to tell you that he could not have been it would make you mad, because you sit there and you watched it! even though the skeptic "doctor" cant prove that he was not in the tube for 3 days he still has enough sense and knowledge to know its impossible.
so the doctor cant prove it, and the believer cant be skeptic from what he seen with his own eyes. But the fact is, The hammer method was used to fool you and make the doctor ask questions in which he can not figure out. The doctor knows this can not be done, but it was done right in front of his eyes, the doctor scratches his head and ponders in wonder. No lie was told.
But, it COULD resonate to infinity IF the electronics would allow it!
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 03:34:09 am
gone
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 04:18:05 am
i like your attitude, and i like you! all the circuits do tend to relate. it has to work and you have to show proof that it works to patent it the way stanley did. Stan showed his work and proved it because he wanted that patent, and because of proof his patents was not denied. You have to have a patent even though the patent is not exactly what you're using, its called patent protection! you are not required to to put your actual protocol schematics etc,, into a patent, however the protocol in the patent may have major differences to the unit the patent is for. there is no law that requires you to patent the actual device, its patent protection. Sure, you will see alot of patents with the actual device in the patent, but there is times you will see a device, compare it to the patent and say hey, the patent is not related to this device at all? whats going on here? patent protection!
its nice that you're looking very deep into one of stanleys patents and comparing it to others work, but i feel you are spending more time on that device than stanley meyers spent on it. he used it to get what he wanted, the resonate circuit hooked to a resonate cell will never produce that type of gas in a good time range, it is energy efficient! it had to be to get the patent! thats why it works for its size.
if you was to hook 2 chokes in series with a fuel cell, you would see that the chokes would Block Current from the power source, at the same time the chokes is being charged they form a magnetic field around the core. this magnetic core is what blocks amp flow from the power device. when the power source is turned off the Magnetic field within the chokes collapses, the chokes forms a series like boost threw the power source sourcing backwards threw the diode. and there will be times the transformer is also working with the fuel cell. This shows and proves the vic, it can not be denied, it works. But the Deviced used to gain this patent had nothing to do with what stan was after, due to the patent laws stan was able to patent something that worked, to use something other than what was in the patent. stan was a business man.
Since it is now public, and it is in the public domain, we now know that when stan ran his car on hydroxy he used 12.5 volts at 40 amps, 500 watts. He also stated that each tube was 12.5 volts 4.4 amps, 55 watts. he used 9 tubes meaning all 9 tubes at 55 watts adds up to be 500 watts. and this is the vic as you will also find in the documents that has been leaked into the public domain. The amount of gas produced was 7 liters in 1 min, 116cc's a ssecond, or around 12 cc's a tube, "that was no lie"
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 10:00:43 am
in your above circuit, it looks like you are trying to get very high volts across a conductor.
The high volts stanly talks about when he talks about the vic is the volts across the upper choke, L1 i think it is. Also the fuel cell takes a small charge. Stanley measures the volts just after the diode, and just before the cap on the negative side, so you would have L1 + C wich is greater than the input voltage. and you will find that the higher the voltage in this area means less gas, i have personally seen a vic that i've created go beyond 2 thousand volts powerd from a 12 volt source, where i was probably pulsing at around 5 or 6 volts.
Stan has also said that L1 was a Amp inhibiting coil, and Also he said this choke was a Frequency Doubler. So if you can applie the dave lawton circuit to a transformer to ring the chokes and pulse the chokes, you have chokes that is resonating double the freq that the transformer is resonating at, so this means there will come a time when the back emf from the chokes are in series with the transformer, if the chokes is not double the freq of the transformers output than you will never see this LC action happen, but you will see high volts. when the LC action happens the amps after L1 and before the cap is greater than the amps Before L1, this is true because when the chokes are being charged the cell is acting as a resistor because the amps are being restricted, when the source stops restricting the amps there is a collapse and then the Cap then acts as an conductor, and capacitor.
what everyone thinks is, the water fuel cell is a conductor, but stan hit a freq, the freq of water wich allowed high volts to be shown across the fuel cell. Stan did not say that the high volts was across the fuel cell, he talked in riddles, like for example, the voltage would go to infinity if the electronics would allow it. and he says that the water fuel cell takes on a charge. this leads you to believe that he is charging the cap and the cap has high voltage across it because he tuned into the resonate frequency of water. Nothing stanley says is a lie, everything works as stan says it works, and he explaines it well, the problem is people missunderstand what stan is saying, why? for one stan says it in such a way to confuse you because he wants it to confuse you. its all part of his protection.
alot of the problem is you guy's dont have the dvd's on stan, they are very very boaring to watch, but if you have these dvd's and you sit down and you watch them, the more he talks the more he tells on his self. he is a good guy and very very clever, but if you dont know what to look for and how to determine whats going on then theres no hope. alot of the truth is in the dvd's. but i picked up my knowledge on stan over a years period hardcore testing and using stan for a hero.
if you have built this circuit im sure there is somewhere you can use it in this system for a nailgun, so its not a wast of time. i have made many circuits and thrown them away time after time. it came to a point to where i was making so many circuits i had to learn how to start etching them, thats how bad it got for me. alot of effort is put into this hobby by many people and effort is what it takes to make us see the truth.
anyways this is my point of view of the situation, im very sure water does have a resonate frequency and if you find it and amplify it im sure water will just fall apart! maybe stan found this magic freq when he used just 12 volts 40 amps to the cell from the alternator. then again, if he found resonance dont you think he would have produced more than just 7 liters a min? again, stan said voltage across his cells was 12.5 volts, and he said that the alternator restricted amps, and it does! so i guess stan hit resonance at 12 volts 40 amps. i am talking about the setup that ran stans car, the one that got it going down the road!
the alternator does indeed restrict lots of amps. stan uses pulsed dc, he also has 9 tubes. its so great how he did this! the guy is amazing!
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 11:55:57 am
This is and example of the vic when the chokes are not double the freq of the input freq.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 11:59:34 am
and here is what happens when the chokes is double the freq.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 15:09:34 pm
Since it is now public, and it is in the public domain, we now know that when stan ran his car on hydroxy he used 12.5 volts at 40 amps, 500 watts. He also stated that each tube was 12.5 volts 4.4 amps, 55 watts. he used 9 tubes meaning all 9 tubes at 55 watts adds up to be 500 watts. and this is the vic as you will also find in the documents that has been leaked into the public domain. The amount of gas produced was 7 liters in 1 min, 116cc's a ssecond, or around 12 cc's a tube, "that was no lie"
Hydrocars
Are you basing your figures of 500 watts and 55 watts on page 60 of the test report? Also, what was your calculation to get to the 7 liters per minute? 7 lpm is not that much! I always thought that one need roughly 1 lpm to power a 1 horsepower engine. But if Stan powered his buggy using only 7 lpm, that is indeed GREAT news! It must be the quality of the gas making the difference....
Wouter
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 21:42:48 pm
Since it is now public, and it is in the public domain, we now know that when stan ran his car on hydroxy he used 12.5 volts at 40 amps, 500 watts. He also stated that each tube was 12.5 volts 4.4 amps, 55 watts. he used 9 tubes meaning all 9 tubes at 55 watts adds up to be 500 watts. and this is the vic as you will also find in the documents that has been leaked into the public domain. The amount of gas produced was 7 liters in 1 min, 116cc's a ssecond, or around 12 cc's a tube, "that was no lie"
Hydrocars
Are you basing your figures of 500 watts and 55 watts on page 60 of the test report? Also, what was your calculation to get to the 7 liters per minute? 7 lpm is not that much! I always thought that one need roughly 1 lpm to power a 1 horsepower engine. But if Stan powered his buggy using only 7 lpm, that is indeed GREAT news! It must be the quality of the gas making the difference....
Wouter
yes 7 liters per min, that is 116.6 cc's in 1 second. Its on page 60. i disagree that the measurements was perfect, but i do agree he produced around 7 liters a min. i say this because i think he produced 6.2 liters and not 7 liters. but he had 116 cc's of hydroxy per second, so in 1 second does all 4 pistons go threw the intake stroke? and also your ambient air mix, then you find that he used about a 1500 cc engine, somewhere around that line.
well, you divide 1500, if thats what it was, by 4. this leaves you with 375 cc's per cylinder you would need. Now is that 375 cc's per cylinder pure gas or will you need a gas to air ratio? so 375 - 116 = 259 and.. so does this look right? does 116 part gas and 259 part ambient air look to be a good ratio for hydrogen? EGR etc,, 116--259
then again, all pistons may have not seen 116 cc's of gas. im not sure how many times them pistons goes up in 1 second. i think 116 cc's of gas in enough to run 2 cylinders, that would leave you with 58 cc's a cylinder and it would work right out this way.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2008, 21:52:22 pm
Albert Einstein had dyslexia, Difficultys in reading.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2008, 10:18:35 am
Aloha, May I interject a different point of view which would contain the same components as we are already aware of, but with a slightly different goal. What if the WFC is not a capacitor? What if the WFC is a battery? Many scientists feel that Stans device got it's energy from an unknown source. Coils can produce a doubling of voltage surge when the field colapses, but what else happens? Why does Mr. Boyce build those big toroidals? Did Stan actually find a mechanical way to de-saturate the electrical component of the water? In the pulses between the voltage surges, was there an electrical desaturation of the stainless tubes, resulting in the electrical binding component in the water being vacuumed into the tubes, resulting in the forced decomposition of the water into the remaining elements hydrogen and oxygen? This is my belief. It is called an absence of energy. It is shared by some of our favorite researchers. Bill
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2008, 13:15:43 pm
OBIWAN where are you????
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2008, 17:14:25 pm
I am here, young Skywalker...:-)
Bill,
Its an interesting theory. Have you and your researchers already made any kind of testsetup to verify/confirm this? I can confirm to you that the wfc acts like: battery, capacitor, resistor and isolator. I also know that we can use any kind of circuit to power the wfc. Each of them will give you gas. One with less power and the other one with more power. The proces of electron extracting works. I confirmed it. You can extract current from a charged wfc. But only when you charged it first. If you wanna test with that, i can give you some tips, if you like.
br Obiwan Kenobi
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2008, 03:28:20 am
I would love to know how to extract electrons from charged water. Could you please give me and others the info we need to do this. Thanks.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2008, 04:49:52 am
Aloha,
Sorry, I thought that it was clear that this is what Stan was doing. I believe that the reason we are having so much trouble making progress is because, although we know what was done and what components were used, we don't understand where we are going.
If you can add current to break waters bonds, and if the three primary elements in water are hydrogen, oxygen, and electricity, why are not we considering the most obvious option? You believe that you can take oxygen from water? You believe that that you can take hydrogen from water? Why don't you know and understand that you can take electricity from water?
Do you understand the basic natural laws of electrical saturation? That law is that everything in our atmosphere, according to it's nature (wood, iron, rock, water) has electrical saturation. Anything with a surplus of saturation, say an iron pole in wind, will release that surplus at the first opportunity. Anything with a deficiency of saturation will decompose if it is not allowed to draw in more electricity from the plentiful supply all around us in the enviroment.
Of all substances that we know of, water seems to be the most willing to co-operate with it's decomposition and transmutation. At the slightest hint, water will become steam, mist, vapor, liquid, solid. It will become a fuel as hydrogen/oxygen and in spite of us just turn back into water.
Big coils and inductors do more than generate voltage spikes. They can also act as a current vacuum as part of their process. Have you not read that in pulsed electrolisis, it is during the off cycle that the hydrogen is generated? How do you understand this? How do you explain this? Bill P.S. My brother has written for Lucas on Star Wars projects. True.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2008, 09:55:48 am
Aloha, Here is a post of Bob Boyce (in Yahoo- group Hydroxy- from 04/30/08) which I consider of some interest in the current discussion-
In answer to the question of why the H- is not attracted to the anodes, it is because in a resonance drive system, the applied per- cell potential is intended to be kept well below that which flows substantial current. Only enough potential is applied to entrain the water so that the polar molecules line up. The attaction is small due to this low per-cell potential, still, some undesired interaction does take place, which typically results in about 500 mA of current through a well designed and prepared cell stack. I call this quescent current.
As far as the source of the electrons, at the points in the cells where these LEM standing waves collide, it appears that the high energy collision of these LEM waves results in copious formation of "new" electrons mid-solution. Tom Beardon was telling me that these electrons may be popping into existance from the "virtual particle flux", or some similar verbage. I am not as well versed on his theory as he is, but something odd is taking place that is very easy to replicate. The hardest part is getting the tuning right so that this takes place within the cells instead of in the wiring.
This exact same phenomonae have been observed to occur in the secondary winding of a properly wound and driven toroid. While observing the primary induced AC waveforms on the secondary of an un- biased toroid, there is a strong HV DC potential that appears to come from "nowhere" that can be used to directly charge up a capacitor or battery bank. It is exactly this odd behavior that has driven me and a couple of other researchers to continue researching this device as a direct power generator that taps directly into this environmental energy. This behavior is fully replicable with less than 2 watts of drive energy applied to a hydroxy gas wound toroid, if the drive waveforms are correct. Oh, and the polarity of the DC can be changed by altering the way the toroid is wound and / or driven.
As far as the oxygen being produced monoatomic, I have no way to verify one way or another. There is such a surplus of electrons produced by this process that everything that comes in contact with the hydroxy gas gets negatively charged. I refuse to use any metal components in the hydroxy gas flow path anymore, as I hate getting badly shocked by touching things that should not be shocking me ;-)
Bob
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2008, 14:32:14 pm
Sorry, I thought that it was clear that this is what Stan was doing. I believe that the reason we are having so much trouble making progress is because, although we know what was done and what components were used, we don't understand where we are going.
If you can add current to break waters bonds, and if the three primary elements in water are hydrogen, oxygen, and electricity, why are not we considering the most obvious option? You believe that you can take oxygen from water? You believe that that you can take hydrogen from water? Why don't you know and understand that you can take electricity from water?
Do you understand the basic natural laws of electrical saturation? That law is that everything in our atmosphere, according to it's nature (wood, iron, rock, water) has electrical saturation. Anything with a surplus of saturation, say an iron pole in wind, will release that surplus at the first opportunity. Anything with a deficiency of saturation will decompose if it is not allowed to draw in more electricity from the plentiful supply all around us in the enviroment.
Of all substances that we know of, water seems to be the most willing to co-operate with it's decomposition and transmutation. At the slightest hint, water will become steam, mist, vapor, liquid, solid. It will become a fuel as hydrogen/oxygen and in spite of us just turn back into water.
Big coils and inductors do more than generate voltage spikes. They can also act as a current vacuum as part of their process. Have you not read that in pulsed electrolisis, it is during the off cycle that the hydrogen is generated? How do you understand this? How do you explain this? Bill P.S. My brother has written for Lucas on Star Wars projects. True.
Hi Bill,
I like to read al this theory. But in practisch, what can we do with it. If you use 2 plates and push water thru it into a hose and then into 2 other plates, you have your setup. On the first 2 plates you put power, and you put a lightbulp/transformer on the second 2 plates. The theory is that you get ride of electrons in the water. No electrons, no covalent bondings.... I have light a bulp that way. So that works. I didnt measure correctly the amps and volts on both set of plates. I will in the near future..
No offense, but i have seen so many theory,s but nody proved it. Maybe a coil is a current vacuum. I believe what i and Brian have seen and have tested. A coil , when pulsed creates a magnetic field and when the pulse goes off, the magnetic field collapses and current flows from that. That change happens with help of something like photons. Its to complex to explain, but you can see it happening on a scope. The high voltage spike happens in the off time of the pulse and when the coil is correctly wired, the spike goed into the wfc. It is possible that that spike is hitting hard on the watermolecule. For sofar...
br steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2008, 13:34:05 pm
Aloha, Stevie- Did you say what happens to the electrons when you separate the hydrogen and oxygen in mass? Bill-Lea
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2008, 09:27:18 am
Hello fellow enthusiasts! This is my first post here and I would like to share my results. I am electronically challenged so please don't ask me to explain mathematical theories or why it works. I, like many others, have been using 302 plates from H. Depot. I learned, from a metal place here in FL. , that when the boaters use stainless (even 316) on their railings, it must be treated with acetic acid or it will corrode. I place the plates in tupperware container with white vinegar for a week before I use them. Before I do that, I sand the plates N & South and E & West, rinse them off in distilled water and then put them in the container. As Boyce said, wear gloves and keep your fingerprints off of them. After a week in the vinegar, I rinse them off with distilled water and let them dry. Next, following Boyces instructions, I bundle them all together and wrap 6 turns of copper wire around them. One end of the wire goes to the positive terminal of the battery and I quickly touch the other end to the negative end of the battery (a dozen times or so.) For some reason, my production is much greater than not doing this, and the plates don't show any sign of corrosion..despite that they're 302. I use 13 plates, one negative and one positive with all neutrals in between. Enjoy
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2008, 09:54:18 am
Please check out waterforfuel.com to see Kevin's alternator/ac to dc set-up. (YouTube). I think he's on to something with his inputting of d.c. volts into the alternator. I am working on a 61 plate Boyce-style plate system using Kevin's alternator design. One difference though, I will be adding a high input voltage, variable, mutliple bandwidth, d.c. pwm to the equation. So the setup would be this: 12vdc battery to 1500 watt dc/ac inverter to a 13 amp variac, to a bridge rectifier to the input of the variable pwm, to the pos.neg. terminals of a second, belt-driven alternator. Mod the alternator output to produce a.c.; leaving the neutral a.c. wires alone, mod the other wires with a bridge back to d.c., now send those three wires, pos. d.c/neg. d.c/ and neutral back to your cell. Please let me know if any of you have tried this setup.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 16, 2008, 21:52:46 pm
Hello fellow enthusiasts! This is my first post here and I would like to share my results. I am electronically challenged so please don't ask me to explain mathematical theories or why it works. I, like many others, have been using 302 plates from H. Depot. I learned, from a metal place here in FL. , that when the boaters use stainless (even 316) on their railings, it must be treated with acetic acid or it will corrode. I place the plates in tupperware container with white vinegar for a week before I use them. Before I do that, I sand the plates N & South and E & West, rinse them off in distilled water and then put them in the container. As Boyce said, wear gloves and keep your fingerprints off of them. After a week in the vinegar, I rinse them off with distilled water and let them dry. Next, following Boyces instructions, I bundle them all together and wrap 6 turns of copper wire around them. One end of the wire goes to the positive terminal of the battery and I quickly touch the other end to the negative end of the battery (a dozen times or so.) For some reason, my production is much greater than not doing this, and the plates don't show any sign of corrosion..despite that they're 302. I use 13 plates, one negative and one positive with all neutrals in between. Enjoy
Voltar X
Thank you for the information. Did you actually perform tests with electrodes not magnetized vs magnetized to compare the real time gas production? Did the soaking in the vineagr make any difference in the gas production?
Wouter
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 17, 2008, 01:22:34 am
Passion 1: visual only..water stayed cleaner, noticeably higher production..amps/volts stayed the same. Am not ready to due volumetric testing until I have worked out the alternator assembly. It's not just the vinegar treatment but also the magnetising of the plates that has increased production. Tap water only. Refuse to go the distilled-additive/high amps, low volts path. Tap water, high volts, low amps. Teeter-totter effect.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 15, 2009, 05:41:28 am
Hi steve and others,
I have been reading some of the stuff here, quite some fire works, see you made this site as well turtle ;D ;D well I will read some more, Steve post post any thing you like from the private I sent to you email all of it if you want, that should bring out some talk. I see some one agrees with me Bob is leaving some thing out, with the full information any one should be able to replicate the results, the Alternator one mentioned some where, well that the 'Archie blue, stuff, I like that set up as it closely goes with some of the stuff that i have done in the past. with three phases there s a phenomenon that happens it is some thing that in the electrical control, and with stand by power system's hate and try all ways to get rid of, but here on these project, is the stuff that you want. there is one particular 'thing ' that happens I will be trying to show this some time, get it right no 'magical extra power required' all explainable. there is a point where at the particular harmonic, the Voltage will be 85 times that of the fundamental. It is some thing that happens in the industry that is hated, but I think that could be used here. I am developing a different line, but it is pure power pulses with a lot of current but NOT MUCH FROM THE POWER GRID, this was something that in one of my jobs in the power industry we utilized, we used hundreds of amps, but took very little from the grid, if the power company found out what were doing they wold have tried to stop us. but it was a LEGAL. Well that's all for my first post I will try and post some pic later, more to read here first to get the 'feel of this forum' aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 16, 2009, 00:12:58 am
Welcome and revisit with your explanations and methods. Any help is appreciated. We try anything here.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 07:30:29 am
So, mate, is it a case of power factor, the Boyce circuit utilzes a phase-shifting approach that masks the actual power being drawn from the grid? I've heard of that, but not completely understood it.
Turtle
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 11:07:19 am
Hi there Turtle You on the right track again mate, yes we had to screw up the power factor, to what is normally not achievable. As you know the best you could normally get is about .98, we got to 1, and 1.05 it cost a bit but what is cost was small compared to the gains on the testing that was done, the circulating currents in the circuit were huge, hundreds of amps at 415v. Well I have been tied up with our 'Bob Boyce replication' we are doing the main test Sat 21st, every thing as been done as per the 'info', but there is a lot I think that is not being told, well we will see on Sat. Ian is a 'Joe Cell' expert and has a new book with his friend in South Australia, 'JMax' so 'unusual power' he is aware of. I am almost getting ready to start on the 'Oz Injector' again funds are getting better. All the research and testing around the 'BB Cell' l have been looking at some of my stuff, I have a 'new type of circuit' back to the large circulating currents and high voltage pulsing, it involves out of phase stuff and harmonics. well that's all for now. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 23:31:50 pm
Hi Aussepom,
Have you read this topic, yet? Its about the Bob replication of me and Electrojolt.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 18, 2009, 23:39:36 pm
Why do you even bother replicating , you can now buy one his cells for a couple thousand $. In fact , he named his company "the cell" ...
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 19, 2009, 04:32:32 am
Hi Dankie, Our idea is to replicate the original one that he supposed to have done all these magical things, but it seems the one that he has posted on the web is NOT the real original set up??, we here in Australia would find it more costly to buy form a 'Bob Boyce outlet, and why should we make him rich over something that from what we can find out NO ONE can really replicate from the information that is given out in the D9, a document that keeps changing. that is the reason that we have built the unit, and this Saturday we will see if what is in the D9 works or not. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2009, 14:34:20 pm
Why do you even bother replicating , you can now buy one his cells for a couple thousand $. In fact , he named his company "the cell" ...
Dankie
THE CELL is merely a 2 x 6 series cell brute force booster that generates hydroxy at the rate +- 1 lpm for every 10A, 13.8V. This is NOT a 101 plate cell for resonance purposes. At http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=423.0 we have been trying to replicate the 101 plate Boyce setup for the past 5 months but no luck yet. Are doing everything exactly as per Bobs specification and even have a Hex controller.... Best attempt by Watkykjy achieved an increased gas production effect that could have been resonance. Unfortunately he only achieved this effect once for about 5 seconds but could not maintain or replicate afterwards. Also, he could not do any gas measurements during this short period, so we cannot say for sure if it was resonance or not (Watkykjy is my friend and is really doing a good job! So if he cannot get it right, then it does make one think.... Maybe all information needed is not disclosed??) But we remain positive....and will keep on trying.....
Aussepom, please keep us updated about your own replication.....
Wouter
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2009, 19:16:05 pm
Hi there
The sealed unit 6 cell will do 2 lts per min for 15a at 12volts from one of our members, he has staked unit have a look for your self, the plans are available
[THE CELL is merely a 2 x 6 series cell brute force booster that generates hydroxy at the rate +- 1 lpm for every 10A, 13.8V. This is NOT a 101 plate cell for resonance purposes.] http://www.takeaction.com.au/hoh/hohnews/hoh_news_03_08.asp
quoted [we have been trying to replicate the 101 plate Boyce setup for the past 5 months but no luck yet. Are doing everything exactly as per Bobs specification and even have a Hex controller.... Best attempt by Watkykjy achieved an increased gas production effect that could have been resonance. Unfortunately he only achieved this effect once for about 5 seconds but could not maintain or replicate afterwards. Also, he could not do any gas measurements during this short period, so we cannot say for sure if it was resonance or not (Watkykjy is my friend and is really doing a good job! So if he cannot get it right, then it does make one think.... Maybe all information needed is not disclosed??) But we remain positive....and will keep on trying.....] it seems that some one else has come to the same conclusions as our group,
posted by me on waterforall [ Hi try looking at these, I have a couple more to post an explanation , the series of pulses were done, and strung together, now they were taken as the board was set up and a pic taken each time, there was a fault and it does show up then I traced it to a faulty connection on the Mosfet, then continued. The cell was done by Ian and last Saturday when we tried to do the big test, well the same problems happened again, even when the board was tuned, things happen very quickly, even though I was aware of the problem and was watching for it. there it went again 'BANG'. We had every thing in the circuit, but with the board off, we did the test for the flow rate, this was very poor. It was set up as per 'Bobs recommendation of by applying just enough voltage across the cell to get 4 amps DC flowing through the cell. This took 204volts DC. Now get that from you 110AC or even the 120V AC, with out the aid of a step up transformer. So I have 'trouble shooted' the problem, it was as I expected, so I will be making some recommended changes to the board, and this will not 'change the concept of the circuit', although I have found another possible cause to some of the problem in the tuning, that may be able to be overcome. I will give you some free advice take it as it is given, in good faith, if you have a 'F' board or are going to get one, get the HD version, and fit the heavier Mosfets, it can still operate the same way but you do have a better chance to set it up. there is a good side to this as well, if it does not work, use it as a heavy pulse unit. personally why bother. before the blow up, we did the volume test, we got 4.6ltrs per min!. so to get to 40ltrs per min there has to be some real 'magical things to happen', I don't think so. but I are going to repair the board, I will be putting the Mosfet on a different 'statalite board', it will also house the 'new chokes' that I think that should be there. then this will be the last try. the unit is NO GOOD FOR PUTTING INTO A VEHICLE, THERE ARE MANY PROBLEMS WITH AN 'OPEN TANK' DESIGN. SO WHY BOTHER WITH AN INVERTER.
try this address I will put some more on later. ] http://s565.photobucket.com/albums/ss94/aussepom/ well I will leave you to thing on this for awhile, there is more. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 23, 2009, 19:41:25 pm
Hi Steve guess what I have been banned from workingwatercar, must have been the last post I sent in, maybe they do not like is being found out, I expect that Hydroxcy, and the the others will follow, well I don't care it is what we have found out and that's bad luck if they do not like it. photobucket will carry more pic, the reason it was there is that one was a few megbytes long. I have more to go on there and there will be a continuation here if thats ok with you Steve. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 12:48:46 pm
One of recent Bob's posts (http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=423.new;topicseen#new)
The only time 4 amps is used is during the cleansing phase, during which time the cells are not connected to the toroidal power system. After that, the conditioning phase, which is done for at least several days, running at about 1 amp, and again, the cells are not connected to the toroid power system. Only when operated during resonance, (after cleanse and conditioning are completed) is the toroidal power system connected. At that time, entraining potential current through the cell stack is in the few hundred milliamps range. The primary current to all three toroid primaries combined is no more than a few hundred milliamps TOTAL!
I will say this again, if you are running enough current to blow FETs or burn traces, then you have your pulse widths set way too wide! This toroidal power system WILL NOT WORK if you are running enough current through the primaries to create collapsing magnetic fields (with BEMF) at pulse end. This is NOT an electromagnetic transformer, nor was it designed to be. It is designed for switched transitions of potential (voltage) only, and passing those transitions along to modulate another dipole of higher potential. Even though it uses windings, it is designed for its capacitively fluxing potential, not fluxing magnetic fields. If I wanted it to be a magnetic transformer, it would be wound with magnet wire, and the primaries would be beneath the secondary. Try to think of it as a 3 phase fluxing capacitor instead of a 3 phase transformer.
I use a variac to adjust the secondary voltage, this adjusts the density of the water between the plates. Also, the toroid windings ideally should be wound for opposite spin in the southern hemisphere. This would mean winding CCW going CW, and the 3 phases would be reversed in direction for CW clocking. This is to compensate for the reverse earths magnetic field south of the equator. Having it wound and connected for northern hemisphere will still work, but at a loss of production.
By the way, the 100 cell unit was never designed to be used in a vehicle. Nor do I recommend it to be used in that manner. It was designed for stationary applications, as in genset installations, or welding gas generation. I used one during the booster rally only because it was easy and available, and it needed to be given a good cleanse, which I did while on the road.
Bob Boyce
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 12:51:19 pm
Another useful pile of his posts from last few years:
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 13:06:36 pm
Hi Cowboyrx, Why don't you post the rest of the information that has caused this response and the post that I will be putting in reply, Sorry Steve but you have to see all the information, not one side. and Steve I will be posting the info that is relevant to the working and setting up of this 101cell, wouter on that site has asked me to continue. The big problem has been the lack of information that has been left out of the D9, and some of the information in it is not correct as well. Well Steve I have bought some more parts to 'repair the PWM3F board, and I will be adding some refinements, and doing a retest, and so it will be the last try. well I will catch up with this later aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 13:16:22 pm
Hi coyboyrx ok thank you for the 'old Bob Boyce OUpower stuff I haven't been on that site for awhile. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 13:42:55 pm
Hi Cowboyrx, Why don't you post the rest of the information that has caused this response and the post that I will be putting in reply, Sorry Steve but you have to see all the information, not one side. and Steve I will be posting the info that is relevant to the working and setting up of this 101cell, wouter on that site has asked me to continue. The big problem has been the lack of information that has been left out of the D9, and some of the information in it is not correct as well. Well Steve I have bought some more parts to 'repair the PWM3F board, and I will be adding some refinements, and doing a retest, and so it will be the last try. well I will catch up with this later aussepom
I am only posting the info we can use to understand Bob's resonance drive. To date, no one else but Bob has been able to produce high volumes of gas (75-100 LPM) using low Amps. I also have a smaller than 101 plate series cell built with the toroid, 3 freq board, chokes, etc. But don't have the electronics knowledge and experience like some of you. Bob is definitely keeping it a secret and recently mentioned that he declined a $300 million offer to 'shelve his resonance drive' by a major automaker. He is the only person alive that we have seen who claims 'resonance.' I don't doubt that his technology works.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 17:50:14 pm
Hi Steve guess what I have been banned from workingwatercar, must have been the last post I sent in, maybe they do not like is being found out, I expect that Hydroxcy, and the the others will follow, well I don't care it is what we have found out and that's bad luck if they do not like it. photobucket will carry more pic, the reason it was there is that one was a few megbytes long. I have more to go on there and there will be a continuation here if thats ok with you Steve. aussepom
Its a shame they banned you, Aussepom! I also have my doubts on the Bob setup. I know that Wouter and Watkij are trying their best on this and they have contact with Bob. I also produced all kind of waveforms with my circuits here..... The only thing from Bob that made sense was the idea of destablizing the water with multiple frequency's.... Looks like the more dirtier the signal from your circuit with coils, the better..... ;)
Well, if others want to come over here, to develope further the Bob system, its fine by me. I watched yr video's. You made a nice setup there. BUT please watch out with that big cell. There is a lot of space on top of it where hydroxy is stored....... Before you know it, you blow yr house up..
br Steve
Ps. Please use dots in your texts...Its much better to read it with those dots... :D ;)
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 19:52:47 pm
Hi there Coyboyrx, and you Steve Ok it seem that we all agree that Bob has been holding back, I have at the moment got his attention and I am backing him into a corner to answer some questions. It is being done for a reason on the warteforall site, wouter is on my side and has contacted me by private email, and I sent him the post that I think caused the problem. All I was doing was to offer advice to three new guys, who were not sure of any thing. I pointed then to Pat Perlies controller, that may have upset him, I also said some thing about 'his precious HEX controller" How with the right tools any one could get hold of them and programme in what ever they like. I did it many years ago BY HAND NO PROGAMMER TO DO IT. I have got some more info out of him and with the next post that is almost ready it should get him to answer some more questions, he needs to do it as he wants wouter on his side. I will be repairing the board hopefully this weekend, and I hope to run some more tests and try to may a better vid to explain things. Ok I will catch you later. Oh by the way how much concentration do you use ? with KOH or do you use the Na whatever? I have only use up to 10 % , the big 100 cell unit that Ian has got I am not sure what he has used. Any idea what Bob used? The reason is when we tested it at 4amps, the voltage across the cell was 204VDC, we only got 4.6ltrs per min. now in the last post on the wouter site, there seems some confusion. Bob Boyce is saying that "you only need a few hundred milli amps through the cell, but did not say any figure!! Then the following post a Mr Rowland, says that "to adjust the voltage across the cell to give you 1.5v per cell, so that comes out to 150v, and what ever the current is at that point is ok. I have an Idea that Bob Boyce goes as high as 25 to 30%, concentration, this is far to high, at 30% you will destroy the SS coating. Ok bye for now ;D ;D ;D aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 23:45:27 pm
I think Bob is already open with the KOH concentration: he says to use 1/3 by volume. His cell is by no means low current.
If you want a real low current HV setup try a half bridge circuit similar to rice cooker and induction hob circuits. The trick is a full wave AC.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2009, 23:51:14 pm
Why dont you just buy the dam thing , its gonna cost you the same exact thing to build your own anyways ... Not to mention the trouble you will go throught and all the unknown variables to frustrate you .
Seriously , you think he's gonna tell anything ? He has chosen to sell his product and rightfully so , revealing his secret will hurt his business .
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 00:18:00 am
Hi there Coyboyrx, and you Steve Ok it seem that we all agree that Bob has been holding back, I have at the moment got his attention and I am backing him into a corner to answer some questions. It is being done for a reason on the warteforall site, wouter is on my side and has contacted me by private email, and I sent him the post that I think caused the problem. All I was doing was to offer advice to three new guys, who were not sure of any thing. I pointed then to Pat Perlies controller, that may have upset him, I also said some thing about 'his precious HEX controller" How with the right tools any one could get hold of them and programme in what ever they like. I did it many years ago BY HAND NO PROGAMMER TO DO IT. I have got some more info out of him and with the next post that is almost ready it should get him to answer some more questions, he needs to do it as he wants wouter on his side. I will be repairing the board hopefully this weekend, and I hope to run some more tests and try to may a better vid to explain things. Ok I will catch you later. Oh by the way how much concentration do you use ? with KOH or do you use the Na whatever? I have only use up to 10 % , the big 100 cell unit that Ian has got I am not sure what he has used. Any idea what Bob used? The reason is when we tested it at 4amps, the voltage across the cell was 204VDC, we only got 4.6ltrs per min. now in the last post on the wouter site, there seems some confusion. Bob Boyce is saying that "you only need a few hundred milli amps through the cell, but did not say any figure!! Then the following post a Mr Rowland, says that "to adjust the voltage across the cell to give you 1.5v per cell, so that comes out to 150v, and what ever the current is at that point is ok. I have an Idea that Bob Boyce goes as high as 25 to 30%, concentration, this is far to high, at 30% you will destroy the SS coating. Ok bye for now ;D ;D ;D aussepom
I believe that I have the Brute force part down in large series cells and he doesn't appear to be holding much back on that one. The low output reason for your cell is low electrolyte. You need to have 28% of KOH by weight and dare not increase your voltage more than 2.5V per cell i.e, 100*2.5=250V or you will burn the surface on your plates and will have to start over with sanding/conditioning/etc. If you have 28% concentration, apply no more than 1.9V per cell and you will see the cell will pull a lot of current and will also produce a lot of gas. You should easily get 180% to 200% Faraday (12-15MMW) You water level must be more than 0.5" below the top of the plate. So, for active surface area, your current draw should not exceed 0.5A/sq. in ( 6x5/2=15A) Your gas production should be close to 190x15x12=~34LPM) This is for Brute force only, after the cell has been warmed up to 45-55 deg C and had been conditioned for several days.
You must read the d9.pdf for how to prepare the cell for resonance. PM me if you want specific details.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 20:09:16 pm
Hi Cowboyrx Well buying the big cell was not an option to get it here in one piece and the freight. Ours was all laser cut, and CNC made any how. It was all done to specs and conditioned etc. Ian ran is on 'brute force' up to 9amps at 190v and only got 13.5ltrs per min. the cell get very hot at 8amps. So I will be asking Ian about the concentration, here is most of our cell we only go to 10% concentration, we use pure stuff, in crystal form, weight it, so much per ltr. I think it is 40grams per ltr for 5%. My test cell as Steve may remember, there was a pic some where, it's a round sealed cell but mine is an experimental version. It has twin inputs, one feed the odd numbers and the other feeds the even, I have holes at the top and at the bottom, so the 22cell unit can be put into two 11's in parallel, if you want. Like this it can give 4.5lts per min at 27v 15amps. Just brute force, it is a convection circulation, I have added a modification, and extra header tank. That is on rainwater, that has been standing for a period of time, at about 8%. I am winding toroid chokes at the moment, one down two to go. 1.5mm wire, forgot to count the turns but I used 2 metres, came out to 222uH 0.633ohms, and impedance Z at 100hz was 0.1535 ohms. Out cell at 35D C is Rof full circuit at 100hz, the cell is 350uf.
{ 190x15x12=~34LPM } explain, I got the 190 that volts, the 15 is the amps, what's the 12? Is that Faraday. And MMW ? 190 x 15 x 12 = 34,200 190 x 15 = 2,850watts. Next ?
ok I will await the reply, I have sent the request in so Bob should read it soon. ???
aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2009, 00:20:09 am
Hi Cowboyrx Well buying the big cell was not an option to get it here in one piece and the freight. Ours was all laser cut, and CNC made any how. It was all done to specs and conditioned etc. Ian ran is on 'brute force' up to 9amps at 190v and only got 13.5ltrs per min. the cell get very hot at 8amps. So I will be asking Ian about the concentration, here is most of our cell we only go to 10% concentration, we use pure stuff, in crystal form, weight it, so much per ltr. I think it is 40grams per ltr for 5%. My test cell as Steve may remember, there was a pic some where, it's a round sealed cell but mine is an experimental version. It has twin inputs, one feed the odd numbers and the other feeds the even, I have holes at the top and at the bottom, so the 22cell unit can be put into two 11's in parallel, if you want. Like this it can give 4.5lts per min at 27v 15amps. Just brute force, it is a convection circulation, I have added a modification, and extra header tank. That is on rainwater, that has been standing for a period of time, at about 8%. I am winding toroid chokes at the moment, one down two to go. 1.5mm wire, forgot to count the turns but I used 2 metres, came out to 222uH 0.633ohms, and impedance Z at 100hz was 0.1535 ohms. Out cell at 35D C is Rof full circuit at 100hz, the cell is 350uf.
{ 190x15x12=~34LPM } explain, I got the 190 that volts, the 15 is the amps, what's the 12? Is that Faraday. And MMW ? 190 x 15 x 12 = 34,200 190 x 15 = 2,850watts. Next ?
ok I will await the reply, I have sent the request in so Bob should read it soon. ???
aussepom
Your cell with 4500ml/min is 4500ml/(27vx15a)=11.11 MMW. Not bad. That's 160% Faraday (100% Faraday is ~7MMW) 190V x 15A x 12mmw = 34,200ml = 34.2LPM 190 x 15 = 2,850watts At this power, considering 12MMW efficiency, you should get 34,200ml = 34.2LPM
Using distilled water with 28% KOH or 20-23% NaOH gives best MMW efficiency. You cell should not get over 55C, if you don't exceed 2v/cell and 0.5A/sq. in of active surface area (wet area) AND when you don't have any plate edge/hole leakage.
10% NaoH is only for conditioning the plates, not for full brute force or resonance. I hope your plate spacing between each cell is 3-4 mm?
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2009, 21:25:14 pm
Why dont you just buy the dam thing , its gonna cost you the same exact thing to build your own anyways ... Not to mention the trouble you will go throught and all the unknown variables to frustrate you .
Dankie
For the second time: ;) THE CELL is merely a 2 x 6 (or 4 x 6) series brute force cell producing +- 1 lpm for every 10A, 13.8VDC. THE CELL is NOT a 101 plate cell needed for resonance. The 101 plate cell together with Bob's Hex controller is said to produce up to 100lpm at low amps but we still could not verify this.
Wouter
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2009, 04:15:55 am
Hi Steve and Cowboyrx, in the post above wouter
quote The 101 plate cell together with Bob's Hex controller is said to produce up to 100lpm at low amps but we still could not verify this. end
Well as you know we here have not either, well here is some of the quotes that may be of interest, you can view them all at the http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=531.0 Now whether this will help I do not know, I doubt it, still I will try it again when the board is repaired, this is nearly done, and the 'new separate board' is partly done, one choke wound. I have to have both ready for the test as the 'cell' is some distance away from me at Ian's. I hope to do some tests here later.
well I would like to here some comments on the 'quotes' aussepom
From Bob Boyce I will top-post here due to the length of the quoted text below.
I simply do not have the time to read all of Patrick Kellys document(s) to see what is or is not disclosed. I have written so much over the years, at so many forums, that there is no way that I can tell you where every little bit of my information is published. But one thing is certain... I have disclosed everything related to my resonance drive systems, at least once, if not more, in the various sites that I post at. Patrick Kelly, after asking my permission of course, took it upon himself to attempt a compilation of my information. He did not ask for compensation from you or anyone else for this monumental task. As far as I am concerned, he did an excellent job. From time to time, it is brought to our attention that there is an error or omission, and that is corrected by Patrick, hence the continual updates he makes.
I can tell you this. The cell is not a capacitor, no matter how much you want it to be one. It is a load, one that we dissipate power into, in order to liberate a unique form of hydroxy gas. It may have some capacitance, as many loads do, but that has nothing to do with the sort of resonance that my system employs.
The resonance of the primaries has nothing to do with the frequencies (intervals) used. You are trying to compare sinewave (transverse) resonance at specific frequencies, to compression wave (longitudinal) energy. It cannot match due to the propagation velocity differences between the two types of energy. This is because compression wave energy flows at a much higher speed than that of transverse energy. Please try to ignore your traditional education when attempting to understand this technology. It has nothing to do with transverse electromagnetic waves, and everything to do with the compression waves of potential shock waves as they flow through the bi-metallic skin of the winding conductors. The behavior of the compression waves in the primary windings are directly related to the longitudinal wavelength of the wire vs the pulse widths of applied potential. Therefore, you will quickly discover that excess pulse width is a very bad thing when trying to get the maximum amount of energy gain from input power vs output power. At extremely short pulse widths, I have had input to output gains in excess of 200 X magnification. Tesla himself claimed to have reach 100 X gain in his magnifying transmitter at very low power levels as well. My improvements upon his technology should allow me to hit as much as 300 X magnification, but I have yet to see that much. I am still working at it of course.
The operating voltage of the 100 cell unit is typically in the 150 to 160 volt range. In a low leakage unit, the current SHOULD be about 200 mA, but yours may be higher or lower due to differences in leakage currents. We do NOT want electrolysis to occur, as this will interfere with the resonance. Primary current (all 3 combined) should not exceed 200 mA as well. In my own HexController unit, with very accurate windings, primary current does not exceed 10 mA. Of course the PWM3F or PWM3G will not offer the same performance levels (PWM3G is closest) as the HexController, but they are able to show gains of up to 3 X to 5 X if operated at minimum pulse width. By the way, minimum pulse width is determined by the minimum pulse width of channel 3 (10.7 khz repetition rate), and the other channels are to be set to exactly the same pulse width. Primary windings will require adjustment to match that pulse width. There was a reason I made a relatively simple calculation method for determining the number of turns for the primaries based upon secondary turns and cell idle current. It only takes 1 turn of error to make a big difference in performance, 2 turns of error will result in no joy. It's like tuning an antenna, if the VSWR is too high, the impedance mismatch will destroy the effectiveness of the antenna. This is no different, as it is an antenna array of sorts, just not electromagnetic in nature.
Bob Boyce
Quote from: aussepom on February 27, 2009, 02:50:40 PM Hi Bob, Mr Rowland and others Thankyou WouterFuel for creating this thread. Yes the cell was set up and all the procedures was strictly followed
{ The only time 4 amps is used is during the cleansing phase, during which time the cells are not connected to the toroidal power system. After that, the conditioning phase, which is done for at least several days, running at about 1 amp, and again, the cells are not connected to the toroid power system.}
{ Only when operated during resonance, (after cleanse and conditioning are completed) is the toroidal power system connected. At that time, entraining potential current through the cell stack is in the few hundred milliamps range. } How many hundreds?
Or do we follow Mr Rowland?
{ Now instead of the approx. 2vdc per cell the voltage is set at 1.5vdc per cell. With your 100 cell unit operating at 150vdc the amps will (or should be) be much lower.}
and what ever the current is at that stage would be ok??
None of this type of information is in the D9, that every one seems to take as 'the gospel'
Once the board is repaired and re-setup, will follow like to follow an option
{ The primary current to all three toroid primaries combined is no more than a few hundred milliamps TOTAL! }
Our coil Toroid P1 = 996uH, 0.319 ohms (DC resistance) Impedance, at 100hz = 0.703. at the working 10.7khz Z = 66.96 ohms, 13.8 / 66.96 = 206mA
Toroid P2 = 992uH, 0.323 ohms (DC resistance) Impedance, at 100hz = 0.703. at the working 21.4khz Z = 133.38 ohms 13.8 / 133.38 = 103mA
Toroid P3 = 992uH, 0.323 ohms (DC resistance) Impedance, at 100hz = 0.703. at the working 42.8khz Z = 267.57ohms 13.8 / 267.57 = 51.5mA
Total calculated milliamps by the three primaries = 360.5mA
Measured Total current after set up was 320mA this was as far as I was prepared to take it at that stage. How I see things So if at any time during the setting of the pulse widths this when any where near 500 to 800mA it was backed off. If you are not aware of this you can during this tuning you can send the Mosfets into 'full on mode', when this happens, the coil is no longer getting pulses just straight DC, and acts accordingly, the 'time on' period will 'see the DC resistance only' so do the sums Max that could be draw in this 'period of on time' is 13.8 / 0.319 for P1 = 43.2 amps FOR THAT TIME DURATION THAT PULSE IT IS ON FOR. That for these 510's is too much and before you can blink it is blown. This is why I have said to the 'learners' put the heavier Mosfets in with the coil open, so that you can get the 'feel' of the setting up procedure. You can then fit the 510's when you are happy with your results Why was not something like this stated in the D9, or by you Bob?
Pin five will give you the out put of the oscillator, set this first, on all three 556's with the frequency pots. R24, R 26, R28 Show pic of this
You can monitor the 'with pulse' on pin nine of the 556, as you then adjust the pot you will see the pulse start to increase. Show pic of this You must have done this Bob, Or you Mr Roland, simple thing like this help us all understand.
{ the toroid windings ideally should be wound for opposite spin in the southern hemisphere. This would mean winding CCW going CW, and the 3 phases would be reversed in direction for CW clocking. This is to compensate for the reverse earths magnetic field south of the equator. Having it wound and connected for northern hemisphere will still work, but at a loss of production. }
This has not been mentioned any where to my knowledge, if it was posted some where then please point me to the post.
Mr Rowland quote { if you are using 204vdc@4amps to get only 4+ LPM I think you may have some leakage between cells. A well cleansed and conditioned pack (without the high end tronix) should do more LPM.}
Well I do not think that there is any leakage, however there is one thing that could account for this, and I will ask Ian to check this before we do the next test. The 'elite mixture' percentage may be to low, but I am sure he has it correct but I will ask him, if this is lower than Bob used then it would account for the low output at 4amps. What is the required percentage amount, or the grams per litre, that you used or recommend.? I just want to double check this with you.
Our 'Cell' calculated at 100hz was 350uf, the measured at 390uf at 35 d C (95F) all our checks are done at this temperature. The 'Natural resonance' of our series circuit is 102hz. With a total DC resistance at this Rof (resonance) of 1.23ohms. I have not found that any one has posted a set of pic 'as it was tuned' similar to me, whether they are correct or not, there is even the part of a 'faulty connection with a Mosfet'. I would like to compare our toroid coil information, that I have posted with the one that you have Bob, the results should be similar. Or if any one else has any info similar would be welcomed. I hope to repair the board and re set it up for another test, any information is welcomed that will hell test this project. sorry I would have like to do shading but not sure how. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 01, 2009, 09:51:03 am
Hi to Steve and you all I will be placing this on the waterfuelforall site and the other sites.
IF YOU HAVE ANY OF THE BOARDS PWM3 'E' OR 'F' OR THE NEW ONE 'G'
Bob and wouter
I was doing some checks and I have found what I see is a major problem. It is on both the 'E' and the 'F' board. The circuit looks ok, but it is on the board it's self. T o explain, R12 goes from the supply rail to pin five then through C5 to pin 8 the trigger input of the second timer. This is ok on the circuit. Look at the board, on the tracks ( green ones) from the supply rail through R12 IT THEN GOES DIRECTLY TO PIN 8, THROUGH THE CAP TO PIN 5. R12 and C5 form a timing circuit to pin 8 of the trigger on the second timer. This CANNOT happen the way that the printed circuit board is.
A solution, CUT THE TRACK BETWEEN R12 AND PIN 8 THEN PUT A JUMPER FROM THE R12 TO PIN 5.
Now this board is the one Bob sent to us directly, so how could any of the boards be working 'as per the circuit'. I do not have a copy of the 'G' board so I can not see if it is the same. If any of you out there have any of these boards please check them.
I found this when I put pins in position to check the pulses on pin 5 and pin 9, there seem to be a problem, so checked the signal at pin 5 and at pin 8. then check the board, against the circuit.
Problem is how many more faults are there?
Why has this not been picked up before now, was it on the earlier boards??
Why is it left up to us to find these faults, I feel for all those people that have paid good money for these boards, including us. Sorry to go on but this is not good, why should we all be the guinea pigs to sort out these problems. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 07, 2009, 20:12:17 pm
Bob shut down his Hydroxy Yahoo group maybe because of this? http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=531.30 (http://waterfuelforall.com/forum/index.php?topic=531.30)
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 07, 2009, 20:18:30 pm
Hi Cowboy,
I think Bob wants to see some money from poor suckers who gonna buy his controller. Till this moment, NOBODY ever showed me a working device, doing what Bob claims. And now, he is even gonna tell us that we cannot use the word CONTROLLER? Hahahahahaha. Sorry. Just like somebody is telling me not to use the word WATER... ;)
br Steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 07, 2009, 23:10:03 pm
Did you guys see the oscilloscope shot there? Can we use it to understand what he might doing with his three frequencies?
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2009, 05:38:38 am
As expensive as THE CELL is, how many people can afford it? How about maintenance and getting rid of the brown stuff?
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2009, 06:42:16 am
Hi guys Oh dear he is not going to play the game any more, what would make him a much more respected man he has admitted the mistake, let him explain the outcome of what happens, if the bord is corrected to the schismatics. When he looked at it, as an electronics engineer, he would know what would happen, he has not posted any scope pics, that one was from some one else. He chose to take his bat and ball and go home and close the site. Have you read the last few posts, it is likely to be wiped off, but I will use controller , HEX controller, the make of the chip all I like. How ever I will be looking into using a PIC, wouter is as well. I will be testing three boards now, the unaltered one, that we made, the one that I have and will Modify, and the Les Banki one.
yaro ASK BOB BUT i DO NOT THINK HE WILL TELL YOU. AND OUR GROUPS SMALL CELL IS BETTER THAN HIS ANY HOW, MORE OUTPUT AND VERY CLEAN. YES STEVE THERE IS NOT ONE THAT I CAN FIND EITHER.
CowboyRX how you doing with yours ?
That’s all for now. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2009, 22:11:30 pm
I like your view on things, Aussepom!
br steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 05:27:51 am
hi Steve then check this out
Here is the link to the Utube clip, there was an splat there but that was the scope earth lead touching something that it shouldn't, always clip it back if you are not using it.
well there is not much more going to happen with this unit.
??? ??? ??? dankie what do you think?
aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 18:02:18 pm
Aussepom,
I know that the brute force method works very well in a large series cell and works exactly as described by Bob. The efficiencies i those cells are 150-200% Faraday. So, I was surprised by the brute force output of your 101 plate cell. If built properly, it should produce 33-50LPM @ 3300watts (220v and 15A) with 1/8" spaced 6x6" 316L plates, ~25% KOH by weight @ ~50 deg C.
Everyone is still waiting to see 'resonance'
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 21:02:07 pm
Hi well we did not take it past 204v that got 14lts per min at 10amps, it was getting hot quickly, and at the time we did not want to destroy it before trying the PWM3F on it. If the pwm was going to work then the high voltage is no good. Bob states it has to be at 1.5v per cell, 150v, and that is what we did, also he states at this voltage the current would be in the in the order of several hundred mA it was mentioned some where 200mA is what he had, and yes we got the same result. we know that the output of the toroid was working ok, as seen in the photobucket vid with the test circuit. Now all were looking for was a large increase in the output, this would have certainly been noticed with the few bubbles that we had. This then would have shown that there was 'something else' there but it did not. so we put out the challenge to Bob. I do not expect him to, if he does show us all how it is done with all the relevant details then I will take my hat off to him. however I will not hold my breath for it to happen. aussepom
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 21:18:48 pm
Just too difficult to replicate like Bob Says ...
I'm sorry , this is a real heartbreaker ... But somewhere along some tiny bit of evidence , an obervation or w/e has to pull you in a certain direction and narrow it down evr more closely ... It seems you never had that moment , I am sure you were really looking hard .
But this Bob Boyce story smelled fishy right from the start ... What kind of guy gets to understand this science but cant properly release a pulsing circuit that doesnt have this "ghost" in the circuit that makes things 100 times more complicated. And also , things like this dont just "happen" , he basicly lucked out on that boat because of some diode ?? Give be a break ... Impossible... If its so hard to tune then how can "gods luck" make it work with some "broken diode" lol ... Thats one a 99999999 chance
Bad shit again from panacea who always find themselves releasing absolute bogus .
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 22:59:31 pm
Hi Aussepom,
I seen your video message to Bob. I totally agree with you on this. Me too didnt have any sign of something mysterious, or big trick. Its all bogus of the first degree.
Maybe, if Bob has balls, he tell you what to do, but he probably will not. He just wants BIG money.
Steve
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2009, 19:32:58 pm
Hi, I had some conversations with Bob. I like to share them with you:
This part is about inductors. All 3 inductors are of the toroidal variety in the trucker system. I know there will be those that may not like to hear it, but the best results were observed with silver plated, stranded, teflon insulated wire. This can be purchased from surplus outlets. The stranded version of this wire does not work on the large 3 phase toroid itself, yet works great on the chokes used to prevent that energy from leaking out of those 3 phase toroidal systems. Heavy guage stranded and solid copper house wire, and solid magnet wire were tried, and did not have the same results. This is not to say that they may not be made to work, just that they did not work in the configurations tested.
In the trucker system, the common + connected toroid is wound full fill with AWG 4, and both of the - connected toroids are wound full fill with AWG 8. I tried different sizes of toroids, and compared the results. There was not much noticed increase from using larger toroids, other than it lowered the required frequency to be applied. The Q is low, so the peak is broad, and tuning is not super-critical. All pulsing used in the commercial application was below 250 Hz in this particular application.
Exact toroid specs are pretty much useless here, as the characteristics of the cell(s) this is connected to will dictate what works best. However it may be useful to note that the toroid cores used were MicroMetals 45 mix, the same as that used for the more recent chokes recommended for the large 3 phase toroidal systems. The smallest toroid cores tested were T157-45, and the largest were T400-45. I did try one of the large T650-52 as used in the 3 phase toroidal power system, but the result was just not worth the much higher cost and the space required.
Hope this helps Bob Boyce
Second part is on how that toroid of him should work:
Bobs system part2:
Pulsing dc into toroid on 3 primary's Chokes must prevent electron leakage when powerpuls is off. secondairy coil is hooked between dc and wfc. Voltage on the secondairy is must not exceed level that starts electrolysis. A Bias like voltage. Never let voltage drop towards 0 volts. The 3 primairy's must provide a signal waveform that provides enough power to start electrolysis in some way..?? BOB? 3 frequencys are capable of creating a stepup ramp. When freq 1 is pulsing you have a low step. When 2 frequency's hit the same time, the pulse on the secondairy will be twice as high then a single puls. And when all 3 pulses hit the toroid at the same time, the pulse on the secondairy will be 3 times as high then a single puls. The pulse it self is square. Play with Mark and space and with voltage levels to get optimum result.
If i miss something, please join in, Bob!
His answer: Sorry, I have been extremely busy providing customer support for those customers and dealers that have been left "out in the cold" so to speak by the manufacturer. I solved the problems by reflashing the controllers back to the original firmware that I had proven was working properly prior to me leaving. This removed all of the manufacturers malware that they had been updated with, and I corrected the calibration values back to original specs. The original units out there are now working as designed again.
The simplified pulsing system does not use the same multi-phase drive as the larger toroidal system. Though the description you gave does describe that larger toroidal system very well. The steps in pulsing levels are very effective in that system.
The simplified system also uses a choke on the power bus side to prevent EMI leakage through to the vehicles power system. How it differs is that each cell unit has a single choke in series with it that uses the pulses provided by the control devices (FETs or DC SSRs). The programming is such that pulses of the same repetition rate are provided at all times that the system is on. Pulse width is adjusted between 0% (full off) and 99% (full on) in 1% steps to control current. On any feedback type control system, the shunt must also be isolated from any EMI produced in order to function properly.
Bob Boyce
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2009, 21:00:16 pm
Stevie, can you get any pictures to go with that.
Does Bob provide some visuals anywhere of his pulse system and chokes other than whats available in the standard PDF's?
Such massive wire, must use a huge amount of current for his cell.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2018, 14:52:21 pm
His 101 cell did not work, and the is a faulty or was with his pulse circuit board, A group that I was with followed his direction to the letter and had a board from him set to the group, cost the group around $3,000, then they asked me to come and put my instalments and scope to work, that is when I found the flaw when asked about it he could not give a straight answer. So we challenged him to show us with his own 101 cell and put it on Utube. Next I was banned from a lot of forums. Ravis cell was the best and there is some other secrets that I can tell the group about this type of cell.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2018, 01:02:32 am
In Bobs defence....his circuit evolves continuously and adding the toroid onto the drive circuit is genious in my book...thats getting really close to perfect in my book :) I wish he would add a high impedance section as well tho if he aint allready.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 25, 2018, 10:53:14 am
here was also promlems with this toroid drive
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2018, 03:30:59 am
ok just found this
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 30, 2018, 17:59:08 pm
thats a bb aetup. Same as i did
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2018, 05:34:54 am
yes and it did not work I do have a vid that was put on Utube as a chalenge to him that chalenge was to him or any one that could demomstrate with information to back it up that chalenge has yet never been answered. that was the 101 cell some where I did show the fix to the pwm board to make it work the way it was intended by BB but the cell still did not perform.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2018, 07:14:13 am
yes and it did not work I do have a vid that was put on Utube as a chalenge to him that chalenge was to him or any one that could demomstrate with information to back it up that chalenge has yet never been answered. that was the 101 cell some where I did show the fix to the pwm board to make it work the way it was intended by BB but the cell still did not perform.
Did yall get the gold colored anode side and blue colored cathode side of ur plates after conditioning?
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2018, 07:25:37 am
I was notthere at the conditioning time but i asure you the groups main man did every thing by the book as per the scrip from BB himself.
Title: Re: Bob Boyce
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 31, 2018, 10:13:58 am