# Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

## Stanley Meyer => Stan Meyers demo cell system => Topic started by: sebosfato on August 21, 2010, 16:44:45 pm

Title: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 21, 2010, 16:44:45 pm
Hello guys i have just put my hands on an alternator witch i got from a mechanic friend here...

I was measuring the inductance and resistance with my lrc meter and got the following results...

the stator had 23,34mh 4,2 ohms

the armature windings had 62uh 0,2ohm 1-2 (left and middle)    2-3  (middle and right wire)

But the left and right were 61,2uh and 0,0 ohms

I would have a question... any of you have ever tried using the alternator without all the diodes???

Have you tried to pulse the stator with high frequency?

Regards

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 21, 2010, 16:48:55 pm
I also got a motor out of my cloths washing machine... It seemed to be broken but were only one wire inside the motor that was broken, i think that i fixed it up.. this one runs on 110v and i believe is about 300 watts....

I will use this to turn the alternator for some tests...

+

I made some calculations and found that 62uh with a 15uf capacitors would give +-5000 hz resonance....
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 26, 2010, 03:56:55 am
I guess meyer used the alternator as a high current low voltage generator, he probably modified the alternator to generate around maybe 10000 amps at around 0,1volts substituting the coils for copper bars...

I say this because today i went to the library where the only copy of the 60's tomlin's book is located here in Br. And i just found that the pump is one of the most important things on the circuit, cause it together with magnetic or electric fields are able to cause physical separation of the h+ and 0h- ions. The electron extraction circuit is nothing more than a way to short this "battery" and than you would need only the huge low tension charge to simply convert the h+ ions into h2...

I already know a way to do this generating the h2 separately from the o2 but i'm trying yet to figure out how meyer did the both gases together as it is way harder... I'm guessing that he used electric fields instead of magnetic but i'm not yet sure how..

Guys the solution was over there for more than 60 years in a book... Do you believe?

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 26, 2010, 23:15:13 pm
10,000 amps may be an overkill. A 100 amps or less is more likely. Lets face it, the cell is amp driven, more so for a parallel cell. I think Mayer kept stressing high voltage to throw people off the patent.

The only case I know of where voltage does work is in a neon or fluorescent tube. May be if you pass steam through a flourescent tube the voltage might crack it. That idea was floating around a few years back. It died a quiet death.

Do you care to post some circuits from that book?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 26, 2010, 23:46:10 pm
I guess meyer used the alternator as a high current low voltage generator, he probably modified the alternator to generate around maybe 10000 amps at around 0,1volts substituting the coils for copper bars...

I say this because today i went to the library where the only copy of the 60's tomlin's book is located here in Br. And i just found that the pump is one of the most important things on the circuit, cause it together with magnetic or electric fields are able to cause physical separation of the h+ and 0h- ions. The electron extraction circuit is nothing more than a way to short this "battery" and than you would need only the huge low tension charge to simply convert the h+ ions into h2...

I already know a way to do this generating the h2 separately from the o2 but i'm trying yet to figure out how meyer did the both gases together as it is way harder... I'm guessing that he used electric fields instead of magnetic but i'm not yet sure how..

Guys the solution was over there for more than 60 years in a book... Do you believe?

A 600 watt alternator could do 300 amps on 2 volts....

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 27, 2010, 00:20:14 am
But how would you make a cell that pulls 300 or 1000 amps?

Sebos?

The thing is that Garret and Horvarth both talk about pulses of around 300 amps.....
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 27, 2010, 00:43:17 am
Is because water will behave as a battery, it will be ionized (plasma like) and the charges will be maintained apart by the force from the pump witch makes the water to cross the magnetic field. The wood membrane will let only the ions to pass due to the very low voltage developed because of the flow of the water in relation to the magnetic field, than all this electricity charge the resonant capacitor and when it discharges you discharge also the ions, extracting electrons from the oh- ions and shorting them on h+ ions...

Actually it will be like charging a capacitor but instead of building up voltage you will only generate H2 you will only have a voltage when most of this ions are discharged as h2.

Will not be a too simple task

I'm trying to figure out the needed calculation for the forces acting on the ions ...

I'm trying to figure out the calculation V= Q/e^r witch stan show on the book, i think this is a way to find out what the hell capacitance really is...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 27, 2010, 01:37:39 am
I also got a motor out of my cloths washing machine... It seemed to be broken but were only one wire inside the motor that was broken, i think that i fixed it up.. this one runs on 110v and i believe is about 300 watts....

I will use this to turn the alternator for some tests...

+

I made some calculations and found that 62uh with a 15uf capacitors would give +-5000 hz resonance....

Thats a pretty high capacitance as far as WFC is concerned and to get that capacitance with a tube set with 1/2" and 3/4" tubes, the length would have to be 1368 meters or 4488 feet.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 27, 2010, 02:13:24 am
Hello Tony i'm not planing to use the tube but manny manny plates in parallel divided in two cells each one with a membrane... this cells are triggered by high power igbts to short the ions electricity into the capacitor for further usage. the electricity will be generated by using a pump to circulate the water into magnetic fields this will assure that the ions get the right side of the membrane than when there is enough voltage just shot it into the capacitor generating h2 and o2 as result and using the remained electricity to help the next cycle...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 27, 2010, 07:06:09 am
Well I think the frequency and the mixing of the frequencies is the most important . If Hydrogen ever picks up again it will be all about the research .

Brute force is just a waste of time and money , it cannot even save gas . There should only be mention of Hydrogen research efforts , high amps from w/e stupid alternator is just a waste of time and doesnt save gas , look @ Bob Potchek , he bankrupted himself because hygrogen dont work when high amps dc or bumpy dc is used , it dont save any gas money to be worth it .

People are gonna have to innovate and get smarter with Hydrogen , thats why I made the things I made , so people could get past hurdles that doesnt allow them to play around , cuz sometimes we have ideas but dont have the tools to test em out and just talk about them for years instead . Hope it works out so progress can be advanced .

Since I am incredibly busy and stressed these days I have made a gamble , I have bought this little water magnetizer from australia , I dont like my noisy 60HZ anymore  , dont think this is the right way . They have a try before you buy policy wich , they are not scammer americans , it sems Ie have seen hexagon type designs , worth the risk , 200 \$ is not much for something that my whole faaily can use , best thing is I dont even have to argue with them with this weird shit , heres a glass of water , s*t*f*u and drink it ... Some of you are stuck too much I know , but you didnt expand your mind when you had that job didnt you , that idiot box got you distracted ....

So I bought this to give me and my family an immune boost , and hopefully give myself a boost of creativity and vision , we know how the brain is just an absosulte mystery and is 90% water , our memory is in fact water , its funny when you try to remember things and suddenly it just pops up out of nowhere m its like the more you try the worst it is , you just gotta let it come to you ... Human brain is quantum .

I ordered that little 180 AUD model , few glasses at a time is all I need , If you got a farm or somebody you know has one I would start trying this , home gardening is picking up also . Also trying more meditation techniques at leats once a week . I have been mostly on a kiwi and apricots , trying to avoid american produce ,  and a bit of fish diet , some organic yogourt and some raw ornanic eggs about once a week , skipped supper often. I basicly went into purge and starvation mode , was constantly hungry but tahst how its supposed to be , your not supposed to be feeling full . I can tell it really helps my energy level and concentration even if I ate less . I am working 30 hours a week and going to school full time , its my last year now and we have tons of projects , but I still have energy for reading and working on my inventions .

http://www.waterforlife.net.au/ (http://www.waterforlife.net.au/)

Also I like this guy George4title , I am thinking of hiring him to promote my product if things work out , he looks like a nice guy , I appreciate the work he did for RT watched all of his videos religiously for about a year now , I simply love his no **  approach , just a few days now Georgie ...

What he said is real real real , theres a bunch of turtling video gamers out there wasting their unemployment on inefficient useless belongings that only brg them closer to absolute hopelessness and misery when they could be having fun with science , some of them are already lost , my advice is that they go for a walk to dc cuz its reaching that point .

. Yall should watch his videos and start seeing that this economic mysery is the new normal , but we gotta build positive things together and do things like a community , those other third world countries understand that and thats why they will see prosperity .

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 00:12:55 am
We are the peace!

I just really solved the problem behind meyer principle. In the end is the same principle on all the devices related. Be open minded to understand what is being said.

I understood why meyer used 9 transformers and 9 pairs of tubes and how he used them...

I understood also how to use the electron extraction circuit and why it is the base of the working principle.

For you to understand well keep in mind the following translation for Meyer's words.

Electron extraction circuit = short circuit = discharge electrons from oh- ions into h+ ions, allowing the ions to be discharged generating than h2 and o2 molecules. This discharge must be made wisely to not loose the energy applied on the polarization process. It thus must be discharged into a capacitor

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 01:39:21 am

Keeping the series of this mind blowing information:

The electrical polarization process = Charge up the water dielectric to create coulomb force witch will make each ion to go toward it's attracting electrode.

Steve do you remember what you called back emf of water after a pulse?

Is the ions electricity!!!!!!!

So you need to discharge the electrodes with reversed polarity into a capacitor!

Meyer was doing exactly what i was going to do with the theory that i got. But he instead of using permanent magnets and a pump to separate the charge, he used the vic coils.. Meyer also used the cells in series for the discharge so he could use rectifiers 10 times less rated in amperage than i would need with my design. However because of this the gas will need to be generated together witch is the price to pay...

I'm really exited, i feel like beavis and butthead when beavis eat a lot of sugar and coffee. hahahaha

Hope you are understanding what i'm saying....
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 06:42:07 am
Ok Sebos ...

Just dont ask us to send you another 100\$ for cigarettes Sebos ...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 07:11:42 am
HAHAHAHAHAHA

100\$ would be very nice =) Actually if you could send me a nice igbt module maybe 300 amps 1200 volts would be nice too =)

I already have a toroidal vic and i just need to get the 18 tubes and solder it...

I will make a drawing for you:
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 07:16:06 am
i will try to do the test tomorrow. i will work all the night to put the circuit to work and so i will check if it will work..  I just don't have oscilloscope so is bit difficult but i will do it.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 07:23:48 am
But I tought you had a 15000 euro lab Sebos , I think you forgot the scope , not very smart , I reckon these are 300\$ for a good tek model american built .

Quote from Sebos

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1216.0 (http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=1216.0)

You can believe whatever you want thats your choice. However i'm asking   for donation and that is not a scam i just need money to finish my   research i lost my job and just can't stop now as you see i'm too close.   I released an information that you and all the others even working for   years with this technology always had under your nose and never checked   it or never could understand it. However how much did you spent on your   research? I already spent in the last almost 4 years about 15.000 euros   on material not counting house rent food and bills because i passed   almost all my time in this years working oSo do you really think   is insulting? I think that is just a   possibility to have a kind of help   to make me finish before i normally   could with only my situation of   money now. So good that you   remembered me this. If any of you are   interested in help in any way   you can do a donation or buy from me pll   units constructed by me. Or   transformer, resonant inductors ... just to   help my project. I know   all of you have spent a lot of money and you   know as i that 90% of   that was completely useless, stainless steel wire   and the like 300\$...   tomorrow i'm going to spent 200 euro only for an   inductor and some   wire to further tests... You see, why money is needed?   do you   understand now?n this.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 08:08:34 am
Ok now just look and cry
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 08:31:03 am
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA  :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

Sebos is so smart that he mathematically analyzed the circuit , it works , it has been confirmed . Ion goes there , electron goes there , left to right , right to left , OMG I am a genius , it will work , I am sure of it . This is pure scientific genius . Cant you see that this works , it should be obvious that it does , it should be obvious to anybody .

let me save this pic and put it in my usb key , then insert my key in my faraday cage to protect it from EMP destruction .

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 08:34:54 am
Did you understood the principle at least?

The ions become electricity. Generated because of the force (voltage does perform work)!!! is like having two transformers with diodes in opposite directions, driving a set of 9 tubes in series (isolated ground)

I'm sure that anyone have never tried this!!! =)

Because there is no meaning, if you don't understand the ions, you will never consider this way.

There is a conventional current flowing witch creates the voltge field and at the same time in counter direction there is another current witch is the ions (they act like a back emf) If you create a path where they can discharge isolated from the first circuit you can turn of the back emf of the ions allowing huge current to flow. Now i understand also why meyer coated the outside of his tubes and inside of inner tubes...
(discharge the ions mean generate h2 and o2 molecules)
Turn of the covalent bounding ...

I'm really sure that this will work.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 12:18:34 pm
I am also very sure that nobody ever tried this... ;)
Are you gonna try this Fabio?

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 14:59:16 pm
yes man

i'm just figuring out how to make the cell with less money possible
Every time i think i get more absolutely sure...

I'm going to use only the alternator and a small motor to drive it...

When resonance start the alternator will rise its speed because i'll discharge the ions on one of the phase windings.

I just also need to figure out exactly how to connect the alternator exactly

i know that the alternator have the phases different by 120° i guess thus i need to choose the right winding for doing the job.. . still not sure hwo to do this...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 18:54:31 pm
yes man

i'm just figuring out how to make the cell with less money possible
Every time i think i get more absolutely sure...

I'm going to use only the alternator and a small motor to drive it...

When resonance start the alternator will rise its speed because i'll discharge the ions on one of the phase windings.

I just also need to figure out exactly how to connect the alternator exactly

i know that the alternator have the phases different by 120° i guess thus i need to choose the right winding for doing the job.. . still not sure hwo to do this...

Maybe the following helps to make up yr mind.
I seen the ion spike on my scope. I even made a picture of it.
As soon as you use that charge coming of the tubes for example lighting a bulb, you extract
the power from the water, which you just filled.
....

Steve

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 19:24:30 pm
Sebb,
I think you should try it with 2 sets of tubes first to prove the concept.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 19:47:46 pm
yes man

i'm just figuring out how to make the cell with less money possible
Every time i think i get more absolutely sure...

I'm going to use only the alternator and a small motor to drive it...

When resonance start the alternator will rise its speed because i'll discharge the ions on one of the phase windings.

I just also need to figure out exactly how to connect the alternator exactly

i know that the alternator have the phases different by 120° i guess thus i need to choose the right winding for doing the job.. . still not sure hwo to do this...

Maybe the following helps to make up yr mind.
I seen the ion spike on my scope. I even made a picture of it.
As soon as you use that charge coming of the tubes for example lighting a bulb, you extract
the power from the water, which you just filled.
....

Steve

Yes steve i remembered that picture when i found this...

I worked all night on the alternator to separate its windings and i've just finished to assembly it. First of all i will make it become a motor... Than i will use the other 2 coils for develop the coulomb force on the water.. _Than when it will be working i will add a motor to mechanically turn the alternator and than i will use that winding to discharge the feedback of ions!!! this will accelerate the alternator without consuming force from the motor. I believe it can get self running... not sure...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 21:06:38 pm
Occurred me that the discharge of the ions must occur in the 240° phase thus i will need something that make me create a PLL divided in 3 phase feed back loop to this frequency, and match the alternator speed for reach the resonant frequency. Than the power input will be controlled by the field coil and consequently also another adjust on the driver motor sepeed to reach the resonance and tune it...

Probably thats why he used the extra inductor...

Don't know yet
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 21:10:03 pm
can anyone help me with that 3 phase signal?

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 22:14:22 pm
you are showing 18 inductors when there are 9 in the stator.. there are 18 connections (begining and end of each wire)  curious to why you show 18?   im glad to see you are approching the alternator seb..

check out this picture.. it is how i see it.. i am only showing 1 phase of the whole picture..
controllable amplitude on positive side.. while you have a isolated ground "that can be switched to non isolated"  this one i think would be the resonance of the resistance of water.... while you have T2 which would be the 50 percent duty cycle and maybe resonance of the circuit.. then you have the switchable analog or constant.. this is where you can vary amplitude to vary production..

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/101_1025.jpg)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 22:28:46 pm
Outlawstc

Or better, something like this.
I would like to try something like this:

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 28, 2010, 23:50:25 pm
Memo WFC 422 DA
pages 3-6 to 3-7

Negative electrical voltage potential (61) of pulse wave (65a xxx 65n) of Figure (3-21) is
simultaneously applied to negative voltage zone (67) via Resonant Charging Choke (62) of Figure (3-
22) which is electrically linked to opposite end of Primary Coil (26). The resultant signal coupling ( 65a
xx 65n ) of Figure (3-21) is accomplished since primary coil (26), pulsing core (53), secondary coil (52),
switching diode (55), resonant charging choke (56), resonant cavity assembly (170), natural water (68),
and variable resonant charging choke (62) forms Voltage Intensifier Circuit (60) of Figure (3-22), as
illustrated in Figure (3-22) as to Figure (3-23). Negative electrical ground (61) of voltage Intensifier  circuit (60) of Figure (3-22) is electrically isolated from primary electricaI ground (48) of Figure (3-22).

pulse wave (65a xxx 65n)  is
simultaneously applied to negative voltage zone  via Resonant Charging Choke  of Figure
which is electrically linked to opposite end of Primary Coil

Negative electrical ground of voltage Intensifier    circuit is electrically isolated from primary electricaI ground

sounds kind of contradicting when u here isolated all the time..

i think i made a mistake on my first drawing.. the connection is from  the negative output to cell  to the negative side of primary while  having the cell driver circuit isolating them at the same time.. during  the on time of driver circuit.. it is dead short and primary will not  pull more then the load it wants 12 v.. when it is off the electrons  runnign though primary are forced without a choice.. (isolated) cant go  to ground and need to go somewhere..
will be making new pic
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 00:01:56 am
i think this one more relates to stans writing

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/101_1026.jpg)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 00:16:18 am
I believe that the concept is so simple that is very hard for me to express my plans.. .

Basically you charge the water capacitor with the vic (basic) than as the tubes are connected in series. And than you discharge the tubes thru the secondary as from electron extraction circuit...  (this will make it become a self oscillation circuit because energy gained during coulomb force (voltage performing work) enter in the circuit thus you will increase the force, increase the gain and so on (is exponential) watch again new Zealand house meeting 1° and 2°... And  think about this ions and dissociation of water... (pay attention when he say that 100 amps * 100v = 10kw power...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 01:07:38 am
I believe that the concept is so simple that is very hard for me to express my plans.. .

Basically you charge the water capacitor with the vic (basic) than as the tubes are connected in series. And than you discharge the tubes thru the secondary as from electron extraction circuit...  (this will make it become a self oscillation circuit because energy gained during coulomb force (voltage performing work) enter in the circuit thus you will increase the force, increase the gain and so on (is exponential) watch again new Zealand house meeting 1° and 2°... And  think about this ions and dissociation of water... (pay attention when he say that 100 amps * 100v = 10kw power...

I also try to understand it all, Fabio.
Your theory is that when you pulse a watercapacitor with a charge of electrons, the water will react by returning with more charge from water ions?
Why would that be? Is it no so that every action gives a similar reaction?

Ciao
Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 01:37:20 am
I believe that the concept is so simple that is very hard for me to express my plans.. .

Basically you charge the water capacitor with the vic (basic) than as the tubes are connected in series. And than you discharge the tubes thru the secondary as from electron extraction circuit...  (this will make it become a self oscillation circuit because energy gained during coulomb force (voltage performing work) enter in the circuit thus you will increase the force, increase the gain and so on (is exponential) watch again new Zealand house meeting 1° and 2°... And  think about this ions and dissociation of water... (pay attention when he say that 100 amps * 100v = 10kw power...

I also try to understand it all, Fabio.
Your theory is that when you pulse a watercapacitor with a charge of electrons, the water will react by returning with more charge from water ions?
Why would that be? Is it no so that every action gives a similar reaction?

Ciao
Steve

Do you remember the photoelectric effect? The electrons being accelerated in the electric field toward the positive electrode.

Is the same thing on the water fuel cell the positive electrode attracts the OH- ions that were attracted by coulombs forces like a magnetic force witch do not get consumed in the process and the negative pole attracts the H+ ions. Voltage Perform work (separating the ions). Than you need the electron extraction circuit witch is nothing more than shorting or discharging the ions extracting the electrons from the OH- ions generating O2 and simultaneously Discharging  this electrons on the H+ ions generating H2.

Is fantastically simple and easy now to understand the point on isolated ground.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 02:40:15 am
it is a little arrogant but come on dankie hes excited we all can get a lil arrogant sometimes it doesnt mean someone must be set in there place.. who are you to judge ones place and life like you know whats best? thats judgment based apon no obersvations other then whats on this site. one could be called ignorant for state what you state without seeing the total picture. the only progress you know of is what is shared by someone. doesnt mean its the whole picture.... as long as sebos is having fun thats all that matters.. and as long as he dont go loopy if it doesnt work
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 02:48:52 am
What do you want my friend? I came up with the solution for the thing, that also meyer said that were quite simple. Knowledge. This allow me to understand why it will work. I'm doing the calculations witch stan provided to us for the coulombs force witch he mentioned many times as voltage perform work.

I hope you try to understand what i'm saying and be glad that i'm sharing with you the work of 5 years.

I hope you open your eyes and stop throwing rocks when i just talk about serious things.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 02:55:44 am
Guys i highly suggest you to watch the 1° and second video of the new Zealand House meeting and read the 1° part of the Birth of new technology

Than think again what i'm talking about. You will get familiarized .

Even if is so simple.

Sorry if i seem arrogant, is not intentional, i'm just very very very happy and exited with my discover. I have finished to assembly the motor and the alternator today and now i',m going to make the list of components to buy to make all the circuitry... I will try to use the diodes from the alternator but maybe only one, i'm not sure...

I'm going to try with the transformer probably before playing around with the alternator
i need to construct a cell...

Hope someone with cell and pulsing circuit want to check out this theory too..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 03:00:39 am
Man, did you understood the thing about the ions being discharged ?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 03:11:59 am
Fabio, with all due respect, I believe you are having an epiphany.  :o
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 03:19:35 am
Certainly. And this is great.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 03:58:21 am
???
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 09:03:45 am
With so many important things to be understand and discussed, I feel like your are not realizing the big importance that have this discovery...

This is your great opportunity to collaborate with something big. I would like to express my feelings regarding this huge skepticism. You should thing to your self that if you daily use your computer to go to ionizationx forum than one day you are likely to see a thread where the true about how things really work to get free energy. So the first step to recognize this, is to see how logics behind the energy gain works exponentially. So You should get more involved to be able to want to understand. If you are really interested in free energy. I was wiling to share because is so stupid that i cant keep this for myself. Stan was a very controlled man for not let this information available. I needed to open a physics chemistry book and a fundamental atomic physics book, and many many many informations accumulated along this time, to understand this.

Hope you understand how much is worth understand what i discovered.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 11:43:27 am
This topic has been cleaned of all posts who didnt matter to the subject.
Keep it clean, people.
Please go on Fabio! Great topic  ;)
Thinking out of the box is what is needed!
Steve

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 12:36:19 pm
Thanks steve, i keep working 24hours i'm just finishing the plan of the circuit that i will build today if possible... Than i will do some tests...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 16:52:27 pm
"More advanced and efficient configurations involve atomizing the  water into a fine mist before injecting them into the tube. A make-shift  version of this type utilizes a motorized air humidifier commonly found  at Wal-Mart for \$15 during the winter season. A flexible, expandable hose  is connected from the humidifier to the pipe. At the molecular level, neutral streams of water are atomized by  the nozzle or humidifier into small droplets light enough to be suspended  in air. These droplets, by a well known phenomena, are ionized; when water  is split into smaller globules, charge imbalances occur."

Quoted from... http://www.montalk.net/cloudbusting/cloudbust.html (http://www.montalk.net/cloudbusting/cloudbust.html)

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 17:26:12 pm
And we are thinking with you, Mr. Brasillian casanova.. 8)

Now to the topic:
The gain of this new idea might be in the freed electrons of the electrolysis proces.
Step 1: charge up the water till a level that the water breaks down into H and O.
Electrons are freed in that proces, not consumend because you cannot consume electrons.
Step 2: take out charge of the water, which not make it a better system....
Step 3: take out the freed electrons.....hmmmmmm

Step 2 is putting an electron charge into the metal of the tubes / plates. The metal transfers the charge of the electrons towards the water in which the charge is carried on by ions.
If we start  extracting the charge of the water, then first we will get the charge back of the ions to the plates which will be carried futher as an electron charge into the wires who are hooked up the metal.

The question is then how we get the charge of the freed electrons back on the plates.
If the freed electrons are in contact with the metal already, then we might have a case....

Then we would make gas, which cost a sertain charge, and then we take the rest of the charge, including the freed electrons back and re-use it...

That way we might get a higher efficiency system

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 18:10:24 pm
Steve you are indeed starting to understand. But you got confused in that the water will not become H O atoms, but there are ions already in the water and this ions come exclusively from self ionization of water and they are OH- and H+ ions. Basically Stan created a self oscillating resonant circuit in witch he was using the transformer as a coupler that unite the energy coming from the discharge of this ions with the electrostatic energy being applied on to allow the separation of this ions " the voltage ".

So basically he used the transformer with two distinct circuits connected to the same water coupled magnetically.

The graphic of the voltage is ever rising because the more energy you apply the greater the voltage will be and thus the force acting on the ions separation will be increased with the square of the voltage increase. Thus the greater the voltage the greater the ions separation. Now comes the master part... : Is't charge separation = to voltage? Do they not wan't to bring back together and their separation does not mean that it can do work?

Well this is what the electron extraction circuit is there for:

To create a circuit (circuit of inductors transformer and water) that will discharge this energy from the ions back to the transformer each cycle.
During this discharge of the ions electricity that the h2 and O2 are generated  because as they want to recombine together and they are close to he electrode if you short the circuit the electrons will pull out from the OH- also because of the voltage that is working there still on the separation....  successively going to discharge the h+ ions thus forming H2 and O2. In chemistry book here it written as discharging the gases and that opened my mind for this new great idea.

Thats why stan said If you have 100 volts separation of the ions and 100 amps / sec for example of ions... you have 10kw of power of electricity !!!!!!!!!

Do You understand where the power is coming from?
(voltage performing work)

you see?

100 amps means that he is generating almost 4 mols of H2 per hour... and there is that much of energy available..

Did you understood now better?

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 18:31:13 pm
And is not just that, together with that 10kw there is yet the H2 you created too. .. So a hell of energy in a liter of water.

Things important to  consider:

A good way to maximize water ionization (from tomlin book i knew that magnetic field is able to do this) but i think that the electric field that we are going to apply already will supply for the least part of energy for the self ionization of water too... whatever i don't know. But now i'm more confident with the stuff stan said about any man with minimal skills in electronics would be able to construct the thing in his own garage. With readily available materials...

A mean for forcing the water to flow between the tubes. Witch i believe that is a must have feature.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 19:29:05 pm
The gas processor worked in similar manner. And thats how stan could have powered his rockets.

Do you see the hell of energy that there is there...

There were  a toy here in brazil called aquamovel witch as a car that you use to put water and a 1,5 volt battery and the car run for a very long time using that tinny battery... And water get consumed... My brother had one. Think to your self destiny irony.

I will explain more clearly another time with the components
too.

Transformer with primary maybe about 50 turns, the secondary (bifilar) about 150 turns, not thin wire, than 1 coil about 100 turns + another coil external witch is variable + A feed back coil to get the resonant signal to lock on the pll... Two igbt that are activated alternately, each one connected to one of the secondary in the manner i'm going to show with the drawing, Basically you create two circuits isolated from each other one for charging the water and the other to discharge the water. i guess is better for observing the effect to not add a load like meyer proposed.
the fact is that the electron extraction circuit witch he showed would not work because the diode shown under is at wrong direction. (misleading propose)

The secret, in the end is this. And also understand the polarity of the coils to correctly create the feed back of the energy...

I think that probably he added a capacitor in parallel with the secondary coil to allow for the discharge and set up the resonant frequency..
I'm not sure of this..

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 19:38:41 pm
I think that i have an old computer here and i will try to use it as my osciloscope...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 19:56:34 pm
if you sent the negative of all three phases to the primary  like my last picture.. you gain the oppourtunity of using the electrons to generate the magnetic field of primary...this i think you may consider simple pll for a forced oscilator (alternator)... it allows your magnetic field of primary coil to amplify during the peak of each phase.. if you connect negative output choke to primary think of how in tune primary will be with three phase.. the negative charge has 2 choices when primarys gate to ground is off.. it can cross water to the postive plate or it can run though the primary to produce magnetic field..  both of them having a resistance.. would the perpetual rotation of the rotor allow you to magnify a echo (the feed back that is in sync with the 3 phases)  so lets say you first have to gate a on time to connect ground to primay for a pulling initial magnetic field and then every time you gate on it allows the negavtie potetial to dead shot and fall to 0v this will prevent amp leakage into water..  you would tune into that specific frequency which dead shorts the cell threw ground.. the negative voltage of tube discharges to ground since it is the path of least resistance compared to traveling through primary and generating magnifying field??? this is all dawning on me clear as well i can see the posibilities of this.. but who knows until they experience.. i will find some time to try this approach in the near future.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 20:11:38 pm
I did not fully understood. but from what i've being thinking in one of the stan patents he just recharge the battery and drive the load

I think that stan did it more easy he probably used a dc motor to run the alternator than he used the alternator connected to 3 set of tubes and used the electron extraction circuit to accelerate the dc motor. this way he take the mains 110v and and his variac with full bridge rectifier and a capacitor this controlling the motor. With but he than use this capacitor as the discharge path from the electron extraction circuit witch in turn will accelerate the alternator with easy.

_The alternator to be self run i think is difficult because of the phase things, if it were biphase would be easier... or maybe the inductor stan used had the ablility of changing ths phase relationship.. well i'm not so sure but i'm sure that we all are going to succeed.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 20:48:44 pm
Check this drawing

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 21:02:10 pm

A Google of that aquamovel, shows a couple different cars. Can't find any info about the cars, though ??
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 21:29:04 pm
me too and i found it strange because they are not sold anymore. i could not find more info too. only my brother and my cousin also told me, it was very cool full of lights, there was the firemen truck and police cars ...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 22:35:20 pm
I thought i little better and i'm going to make a simple square wave generator and variate the frequency using the transformer i have here if i find some resonance i will than make the pll feed back.. . I will use just a square wave 50% generator... 4046 and a driver with the 2 optocouplers with its owns isolated power sources... and Those might be igbts i believe about 60 amps its ok to start, with the high amp diodes in series to ensure that the circuit keep closed  ... =)

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 22:51:28 pm
Check this drawing

What you do on this schematic is adding the voltage that you extract to the secondairy voltage? Like normally the secondairy produces 10V. By using the extracted voltage, you basically add a coil like battery to the secondairy.
When the extracted pulse delivers a 10V also, you end up with 20V?

Again, i just try to understand.. ;)

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 22:59:24 pm
Check this drawing

What you do on this schematic is adding the voltage that you extract to the secondairy voltage? Like normally the secondairy produces 10V. By using the extracted voltage, you basically add a coil like battery to the secondairy.
When the extracted pulse delivers a 10V also, you end up with 20V?

Again, i just try to understand.. ;)

I basically discharged the ions into a isolated circuit witch will discharge their energy in form of magnetic field (increasing the aways rising voltage across the water) Using the secondary coil as a second primary coil than there is another coil witch might or might not be coupled to the other coil on the top...

The extracted voltage will be equal to the input voltage but the amperage will be high i believe. I'm not sure if is actually needed to add a load, but i believe that the energy will be accumulated on the transformer and used in sequenced pulses to increase voltage every pulse.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 23:02:36 pm
I think i understand now pretty well what you mean..

I found the pic of the return spike of my tubecell...
Here it is..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 23:04:01 pm
This is exactly what i'm saying

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 23:07:26 pm
We must try to time this right, is it.
The pulse that trickers the primairy must start at the same time as the pulse on the extraction circuit...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 23:23:34 pm
Ok i got the old computer back to life today and now i have an oscilloscope. Thanks god. . Just need to find a mouse.

yes i think must be all in synchronistic than you just chose with how much pulses you want to put in turning on or of the pll... on pin 5

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 29, 2010, 23:52:47 pm
Hello guys i need your help to make this project to finish as soon as possible.

I need the following, if you can help me good, if not stay tuned and learn too.

I need a variable voltage supply that variate from 3 volts up to 14 volts up to 5 amps.  Any schematics would help.

I need a good program for using the pc as an oscilloscope. using the sound card. If you can help indicating me one program i thank you.

I need some information about how to drive a 3 phase motor.

I also need to find a good optocoupler with up to 5kv isolation that can drive igbts and or a driver to drive that igbt also...

That igbt..

The rest i get here already.

Well thank you everyone for reading. I believe that finally we found the answer.

cheers

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 02:12:19 am
Look this is what i think it should look like:

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 03:26:04 am
Again the basic idea:

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 04:41:40 am
Stephen did the same thing as meyer if he did succeed.

I can assure you that if you try to understand the principle i'm explaining to you, you will understand.. . And you will see that is the only way it could work.
.
Think with me, what stan aways said. Voltage does perform work and is not consumed in an electronic circuit.

You charge the water capacitor with voltage. This voltage on the plates will attract to them the oppositely charged ion. The greater the voltage the greater is the force of attraction. Electrostatic meaning of Voltage is = to opposite charges separated.. The greater is the separation, the greater will be the voltage, even if the charge remain the same. Now happen something, ions have a max speed in water and if the electric field is turned off in fact in a millisecond charges should have come back together to neutralize... As they are attached to the electrodes, if you just close the electric circuit the electrons from the OH- ions will jump to the electrode to go discharging in the other side the H+ ions because the electrical resistance of the coil will be lower than the resistance offered by the mobility of the ion...

So if you have there 10 coulombs of separated charges in the water capacitor per cycle, 1khz you will generate 1 gram of hydrogen every ten seconds.

Thus gas production increase exponentially with voltage because the force acting over the distance increase with the square relationship of distance, witch is not the case with faraday.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 05:07:48 am
I have just calculated the capacitance of each tube, being the internal tube 1,27mm diameter X 500mm long Than the capacitance is

199cm2 = 0,0199 m2
Relative constant of water 81
Absolute constant = 707 pf /m2
1mm = 0,001 meter

So (Area m2 * absolute constant / distance in meters

So 0,0199 * 707 / 0,001 = 14.069 pf or  +- 14 nf

If the gap is 1,5 mm the capacitance become

So 0,0199 * 707 / 0,0015 = 9,379 pf or  +- 9,4 nf

You see?

If this is the capacitance than to ring at 5khz the inductor must be around 100 uh witch is quite reasonable for a high current inductor.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 09:30:07 am
Dankie has become a guestmember from now on.
I mean there will be no posting by this person done on this forum, which he think is crap.

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 11:45:14 am

Thank You, Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 12:09:45 pm
Sebos,

Here is the schematic that I used. Warp came up with it, some years ago.
As you can see, the drawing is part me and part Brian... :)

If you take a look, you see No external powersupply for the rotor.
We took the power for the rotor from the wfc and it worked fine!
All you have to do, is to jumpstart the wfc with a battery and then it runs all by himself.

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 12:22:24 pm
Well, it seems great and even better if you are saying that it worked.... I Just didn't understood yet why the energy is feedback there. Could you explain?

How much gas it generated? What voltages? Amperages?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 13:48:33 pm
You have to understand that the rotor must have volts and current to create a magnetic field.
As soon as the rotor is charged and is moving across the stator, it will create power and powers up the wfc.
In the schematic, you see the power for the rotor coming off the wfc!

In your new theory, we must change some things to this schematic.
There must be an extra coil added to the STATOR. That should become your EEC coil.
The rotor must get a 50% squarewave on it. When the rotor goes down on signal, the EEC must pull the charge out the wfc into the extra coil on the stator.

If i remember well, Donald or Don told us that the alternator of Stan had indead that extra coil in the stator, btw......

Let me make a drawing...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 17:12:55 pm
i think im gonna join yalls ban wagon and try to feel what sebs trying to do...  i remember stans vids and from what i remember about eec.. it switches on during the off time of voltage to the cell and the discharge of current would be used to generate light (consume electrons ).. i didnt know there was another coil for the eec...i thought stan simply conumed the negative voltage as light... which in return was used in the cell..  when you have a series of leds wired up and connected as it they were the coil you speak of.. fill me in a lil more why u feel this is the way.. if you decide to use around 18 gauge for tha alternator i know 6 loop per inductor is a bit much.. will want somthin like 3-4 per loop... the thing is 3 loops is 6 because loops over lap in the cavitys of stator.. so with 6 per indunctor you get 36 in each cavity.. (realy tight with 18).. this is how i have my alternator at the moment..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 21:56:51 pm
The best one looks like a bedini circuit....A battery is used to power the wfc and the wfc is charging another battery..... :P :-X :'(

Not yet 1 schematic that is adding that charge up.....

Tomorrow another day
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 22:28:06 pm

Today i bought some stuff that i will need for doing the circuits

I got this for today
2 igbts
toshiba mg50q2ys40
http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/toshiba/1694.pdf (http://www.datasheetcatalog.org/datasheet/toshiba/1694.pdf)
The guy actually borrowed me this two it would cost here about 350 euro, this were already used...

4 tc 4429 inverter drivers     http://www.learn-c.com/tc4429.pdf
4 4n25 optocouplers     http://www.datasheetcatalog.net/pt/datasheets_pdf/4/N/2/5/4N25.shtml
5 cd 4046 pll
5 cd 4001 nor gates
3 pre perforated pcb boards
connectors for my new pc oscilloscope
I also got a 50 amp 1000v full bridge rectifier and other 2 1000v 10 amps rectifier

I will still need some more stuff... I have spent equivalent to 50 euros for this stuff...

Now i need to tell you

I was talking to my chemistry teacher this morning and i told him about the project and during our conversation i realized something.
When he told me that instantaneously if you switch between the two igbts the charges will not hold there on the electrode. (if we turn of the voltage) So i realized that maybe there is only one 1igbt and the other might only be a diode, because it will keep the capacitor charged not allowing it to discharge...

And also that maybe this pulse to the igbt must be twice the frequency of the transformer and should start 90° after the first pulse.

Because this way voltage will be at max when you allow the ions to discharge...

=)

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 22:53:32 pm
I think it all end up like Stan said it was....Man, hear me talking...
Most of his VIC schematics show 1 core.
Why? Its all about creating magnetic fields, which create volts and amps....Yeh, i know.

To understand it all a bit better, i have a video for you.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 22:56:48 pm
Fabio,

My current drawings also use 1 fet at the wfc side.....
Your teacher is right in this. Look at the Brian and Steve schematic....also 1 fet

More to come..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 30, 2010, 23:06:31 pm
What you mean by blocking? It depends. The 1 when he approach the magnet he create a current on the coil, when he move it again he create another current. If we were to try to compare would be like you approach the magnet and than you approach the magnet again. But in our case the second approach will be generated by the ions current.

I was starting to think if stan didn't use his tubes as the coil.. but i'm not so sure.

I will stop a bit with theory and see practically, if will work. I guess it will...

If it works will mean that my theory holds.

If not we must find the right phase and combinations of coils capacitors and diodes... And is done. Because certainly the energy come from the ions.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 01:04:16 am
Steve for me now is so clear =)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 10:53:22 am
Now lets talk about the alternator...

My alternator, have 60uh windings, for every rpm it will generate 4 hertz.

If i could have a coil that would totalize 5mh and i had the tube cell stan used 1° time witch second my calculations were around 150nf all tubes in parallel.

I would have 5,8khz as my resonant frequency, witch mean that i would need to drive the alternator stator field with this frequency as to self accelerate the alternator during resonance. I believe it can become self oscillating and thus probably dangerous... I will use breakers for 40 amp for safety...

I i would have much lesser capacitance i would like to pulse the field coil in phase lock with the resonance, this way i could have very high frequency at low Rpm.

Hope you understand what i mean.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 14:13:26 pm
Now lets talk about the alternator...

My alternator, have 60uh windings, for every rpm it will generate 4 hertz.

If i could have a coil that would totalize 5mh and i had the tube cell stan used 1° time witch second my calculations were around 150nf all tubes in parallel.

I would have 5,8khz as my resonant frequency, witch mean that i would need to drive the alternator at about 1,500 rpm...

I i would have much lesser capacitance i would like to pulse the field coil in phase lock with the resonance, this way i could have very high frequency at low Rpm.

Hope you understand what i mean.

The xc and XL i understand, but in your schematic i dont understand it..
Can you explain it to me?

Steve

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 14:30:47 pm
Here is food for your brain, Fabio.

Hope you like it.

As you can see, is the second battery, or capacitor, charged with the EEC...
So, every new pulse is done with a higher voltage on the primary coil...
Meaning, the wfc gets a higher shot and the EEC delivers more volts to the cap/battery.
So, it is step charging............

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 16:50:20 pm
seb i dont think you understand the alternator clearly.. or maybe i dont

the way i see it is  the alternators frequency is based of of geometrical shape..  if you look the rotor it has claw poles coupleing from front  and back of the rotor.. one is north and one is south...   6 north poles and 6 south poles.. one turn of the rotor in 1 second is 6 hertz.. swings up and down in 6 reps

2 turns in one second is 12 hertz and so on,,
1rpm would be .1hz..

if 1 turn in 1 second is 6 hertz then one rpm is 60 times longer then 1 second (the hz measurment)

ok i did the measurments on my alternator.. it has a 5 inch pully on a 220 volts 3450 rpm 2hp motor..
my alternator has a 3 inch pully..  this is a 3/5 ratio or a 5/3 depending on perspective.. is glass half empty or full?
you could say that the alternator turns the ac motor 3/5
or you could say the ac motor turns the alternator 5/3

5/3= 1.666
so for every 1 turn of my ac motor my alternator pully turns 1.666 times

if my motor is 3450rpm it is also 57.5 cycles per second.. (3450/ 60= 57.5)
57.5 x 1.666= 95.795
so my alternator is turning at 95.795 cycles a second which is 5747.7 rpm

if my rotor produces 6 hertz per turn then 95.795 cycles per second will produce
574.77hz signal from rotor to stator..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 17:25:44 pm
Questions to you all out there:

We have 2 battery's.
1. 2V and 100 amps
2. 12V and 1 amp

What happen if we hook them up in serie. (all components can handle 100 amps)
Might it be that we get 14V potential diff and 101 amps current?

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 17:38:06 pm
Questions to you all out there:

We have 2 battery's.
1. 2V and 100 amps
2. 12V and 1 amp

What happen if we hook them up in serie. (all components can handle 100 amps)
Might it be that we get 14V potential diff and 101 amps current?

Steve

you will end up with 14 volts 1 amp.

But if you have a battery of 12v giving 5 amp and other in parallel 12v giving 100 amp you have 105 amp.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 17:48:48 pm
Outlawstc you are right! i was confused there are 12 poles on my alternator thus 6 Hz per rpm. I also forgot to count that rpm is per minute thus 60 seconds. Thank you for pointing that!
=)
Sebos

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 17:50:12 pm
@ steve

100amp/ 2v = 50 siemens
1amp / 12v =  .0833 siemens

the 12v and 2 volt will gain the total of series being 14 volts they will superimpoise there resistive qualitys.. the one amp batter haveing higher resistance will regulate the voltage
you will have a total potential of 14 volts @ 1.1662amps

i think you would simply take the most resistive value and and times it by the series
14v x .0833 siemens= 1.1662 amps

seb and everone else

also with the 3 phases combine you are not getting a pulse frequency in the cell without gating... the 574.77hz my alternator is producing is rectified dc.. 3 signals superimposed (3phase) will give you dc ripple of frequency..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 17:58:07 pm
notice your mistake seb.. 1 amp is inacurate because you not accounting for the 2 extra volts being superimpsed onto the 12 volt battery!!:)  that 2 volts raised the amperage of the 12 volt 1 amp by .1662 amps! (volts out power resistance raising amps as volts go up in ANY material conducting)
man i feel like i gain the key to the universe lol
i can see the ratio for acceleration of signal in a medium now..

we must learn drift velocities of electrons.. we must refraim from the example of amps in reference to how may electrons pass a given point to how fast they travel in a medium under different potentials.. need to know how long the travel from a to b is in the cell gap..

if they were in parallel wouldnt your 12volt battery charge the 2 volt battery to the point where the 12v it dead and only holding 2 volts?  a negative 12v hooked to a negative 2 volts would that not create current of 10 volts @.833 amps flowing into 2 volt battery?  (10v x .0833 simens)

if you were to pull a load you would have 2v @ 100.833 amps?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 18:00:09 pm

Hope you understand what i mean.

The xc and XL i understand, but in your schematic i dont understand it..
Can you explain it to me?

Steve

Which one you are talking about??
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 18:06:31 pm
notice your mistake seb.. 1 amp is inacurate because you not accounting for the 2 extra volts being superimpsed onto the 12 volt battery!!:)  that 2 volts raised the amperage of the 12 volt 1 amp by .1662 amps! (volts out power resistance raising amps as volts go up in ANY material conducting)
man i feel like i gain the key to the universe lol
i can see the ratio for acceleration of signal in a medium now..

we must learn drift velocities of electrons.. we must refraim from the example of amps in reference to how may electrons pass a given point to how fast they travel in a medium under different potentials.. need to know how long the travel from a to b is in the cell gap..

Yes you are right! the resistance would not change...=) Yes they accelerate but mainly on conductive materials there are so many of them that they move very slow. There is a mit lecture about this on you tube electricity and magnetism...

We should be able to calculate yes the mobility of the ions in water too. Tonight i'm going to the university to consult a teacher specialized in atomic physics...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 18:16:20 pm
Here is food for your brain, Fabio.

Hope you like it.

As you can see, is the second battery, or capacitor, charged with the EEC...
So, every new pulse is done with a higher voltage on the primary coil...
Meaning, the wfc gets a higher shot and the EEC delivers more volts to the cap/battery.
So, it is step charging............

Steve

This is the spirit but i'm not sure if will work exactly like that.

Today i think that i understood the alternator operation. You will give to the field coil the the pulses at the resonant frequency, and than it will charge the water and make the current to pass... Being the field coil alternating current and the other coils direct current coming from the ions the alternator should almost self run. the alternator speed will not change the resonant frequency but i guess there might be an optimum rpm.
I will buy an analogue voltage reducer for my motor and finish to assembly it now.

The adjustable coil is just needed on the other two circuits connected to the other windings of the alternator, because as it is phase locked with one resonating circuit, he than need to fine tune the other two...

After the alternator i'm gonna use a 30amps 5mh bifilar coil  witch will be my resonant coil. It will be connected just like stan show on the electron extraction circuit.  But being the resonant chokes = to this coil (the secondary will be the alternator)

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 18:19:19 pm
Try this one...

12v at 100amps/hour
in serie with
2V  at 100amp / second

=
14V at 100amp/sec ??

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 18:44:13 pm
negative steve..

you cant compare time with batteries in series... doesnt make sense we are not viewing consumption we are viewing available potential at a given moment

12v @ 100 amp
2v @ 100 amp

we must know the siemens!!

100amp/12v= 8.333
100amp/ 2v =50
we take the highest resistance which is the lower siemens (8.333) and times it by the new potential in series

14vx 8.333= 116.662 amps!
14v @116.662 amps

the reason we choose the lower value siemens is because it has the highest resistance..

which sounds more resistive?
a gain of 8.3 amps per volt in a given material or
50 amps per volt?

its obvious a material that gains less amps per volt is more resistive..

now lets reverse the idea of resistance between the 2 batteries

a 12v 100 amp in series with a 2 v 1amp

this in series provides the following equation

100amp/12v = 8.333 amps per volt.
1amp /2v = .5

now we have a battery that es really weak and one semi powerfull in series

the difference is in the first example steve gave the higher potiental (12v) battery was that battery of most resistance which gave us the numbers to go by.. (14v x .0833siemens) gave us 1.1662 amps

this way we have a high power forcing 12 extra volts to flow through its resistance.. this i would think would over load the material of the battery to the point of burning up..  if the smaller batter could handle the current then it would be the following

you would take the simen of least value which represents the value with the  smalled vaule of amps per given volt..

it is .5 siemens for the 2 volt 1 amp battery..

14v series x .5 simens =7amps..

so the small lower power battery should try to maintain around 7 amps until a it burns up or B it can handle the load which may be simple a construction parameter to achive
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 19:38:52 pm
Try this one...

12v at 100amps/hour
in serie with
2V  at 100amp / second

=
14V at 100amp/sec ??

Steve
there is no unit of current per time.
12V with a charge of 100Ah and 2V with 100As would be 14V at 100A for 1s. After that 12-14V with <100Ah or even less, because the 2V battery will be charged probably.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 31, 2010, 20:09:24 pm
thanks....
Now i am depressed... ;D

How would you people re-use the charge gained from the wfc?

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 01, 2010, 05:36:21 am
it is clear that amps measure the quantity of electrons passing a given point..
we need to learn more about electrical current induced by perpetuation.. stan says in his videos thatr there is a self pumping action that occurs in the cell and for that reason they will remain clean..  amps are flowing 90 degrees out because the charge is not leaving the tubes (more conductive) with a high ring.. the sharp rise time creates the 90 out of phase because it the potental is shoot toward the end of the tube then leaking into water if potential persist (not terminated)..

the key to the electron extraction circuit is knowing its real job.. it was creates to switch the high potential of negative voltage into light.. another form of energy!.. he did this like sebs say but no coil just the resistance of light and resistors from what i understand he would switch the from igbt positive collector (extraction conductor tube) back to secondary...  this speeds up the fracturing of water by maintaining instabliity of the water even on the off stage of voltage pulse..  so he would create power from ions to maintain the imbalance.. this is efficency! you could say you are attacking water with 2 prosses that create 100 percent duty.. the lights also provide and maintain resistance..  the same time gives you the ability to consume electrons which higher the energy of water further then standard water polarization process.. so all in all it may not be a more efficent process from the transformer aspect but its gas energy state results make up for it?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 03, 2010, 17:06:04 pm
what do you think of this seb

(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/scrrelaxationoscillator.jpg)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 03, 2010, 21:29:34 pm
i TRIED TO BUT DIDN´T UNDERSTOOD... WHY THE FULL WAVE BRIDGE AND THE RESISTOR IN SERIES WITH THE CAPACITOR, I THINK YOU REPRESENTED THE 3 PHASES RIGHT?

I´M WORKING ON A SCHEMATIC, ACTUALLY ITS READY AND IS =TO THE ELECTRON EXTRACTION STAN SHOWED BUT THE SECONDARY IS ONE OF THE PHASES OF THE ALTERNATOR AND THE FIELD COIL IS FEED WITH THE AC RESONANT FREQUENCY..

tHE FACT IS THAT MY COMPUTER GOT BROKEN SOMEHOW SO I CANNOT MAKE ANY DRAWINGS AND I HAVE NO SCANNER OR ANYTHING THAT I COULD USE TO COMUNICATE BETTER WITH YOU...
]
]
bUT THE ALTERNATOR BEING CONSTANTLY PUSHED BY THE MOTOR WILL GIVE IT THE ABILITY OF ACCELERATE IF DIRECT CURRENT FROM FROM ITS SECONDARIES... iF THE FIELD COIL IS FEED WITH AC ... YOU JUST NEED TO FIND THE RIGHT POLARITY OF THE TWO COILS. AND REMEMBER THEY SHOULD BE COULPLED...

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THIS?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 03, 2010, 21:31:57 pm
DO YOU REMEMBER THE STAN HAND DRAWINGS, CHECK THEM OUT ANOTHER TIME.

oPEN AN OLD PHYSICS CHEMISTRY BOOK AND YOU SEE THE REPRESENTATION JUST THE SAME AS HE DID...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 03, 2010, 22:44:05 pm
DO YOU REMEMBER THE STAN HAND DRAWINGS, CHECK THEM OUT ANOTHER TIME.

oPEN AN OLD PHYSICS CHEMISTRY BOOK AND YOU SEE THE REPRESENTATION JUST THE SAME AS HE DID...

Can you Be more specific?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 03, 2010, 23:22:27 pm
im sorry seb this i think would go with the unit stan made that uses variable transformer not the alternator if you want me to move it i will

the drawing seb speaks of is the napkin drawing
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 03, 2010, 23:29:01 pm
what i think is the pic above would allow the cell to have direct connection to rectifier and the scr would gate positive  to ground.. i think there may be a way to allow scr to dead short to ground to allow cap discharge rather using scr to send charge to fuel cell.. i think there is a way it will improve switching with scr then what stan shows..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 06, 2010, 00:49:11 am
Hello guys

I´m finishing to construct the thing i created a new pll cd4046 circuit with 4429 driver and 4 divide byu 10 dividers cd4017 giving it a range of 150kz to 10hz very precise frequency. i´m using a irfp 250  as the transistor and i´m using simply a 60APU06 diode in parallel with the field coil of the alternator. This circuit is being supplied by 12v from car batery... and regulated by a lm7812...
obs nothing get hot

only the motor that is driving the alternator, is a 300 watts motor and is fixed speed, i´m getting 120hz out from the alternator witch indicates that the rpm is about 1200 i think, please correct me if i´m wrong...

Now i need to finish my coil its like this:
i used as coil former a pvc pipe about 10cm diameter  25cm long, i separated two pieces of 22 meters (one for each coil)  of 35amp wire (those for house wiring, I think is 6mm2 area,) that allowed me to make a coil of about 90 turns divided in two layers (well insulated with nomex (transformer HighV isolation) and resulted about 246uh of inductance... Now i´m going to coil the other coil on another pvc pipe witch is a litle bigger than the first one just got one here that matches perfect the size, so i can move one coil in relation to the other to be able to change the coupling... I will also make taps on it to change its transformer action ratio =) inductance...

than i will just need to make the circuits for the drivers of the igbts... but afer that i finish this coil i will try using only two diodes... to check if i get some resonance...

Oh my filtered water here connected to the alternator builded up only few bubles and at 3,8 volts...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 06, 2010, 04:48:10 am
I thought a way for doing the pulse for the igbts very quickly

i´m winding an inductor with thre coils very well insulated from each other 200 turns per coil 0,27mm diameter wire if i remember well... this is just for the gatesss

thus one coil will be connected in parallel with the field coil on the irfp and the two secondaries will be connected to respective igbts to mke them switch with the frequency perfectly matched...

than i just need to rebuild the feed back coil and circuit and the lockin indicator (just a led and a transistor and a couple of diodes and resitors) i will not add an resonant scaning circuit, i don´t think is needed for now...

I will use a toroidal bifilar coil (the same 6mm2 wire) witch i already have here ready and will test with a 3 inch tube cell on filtered water....  about 1,5nf and 22mh abouty 27khz

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 06, 2010, 12:52:33 pm
Sounds all like an experiment in progres to me... ;)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 06, 2010, 15:07:49 pm
Yes steve hopfully in the end of the day today i will get it to work. Cross your thingers too ... =)

I tried to make the pulse transformer on the ferrite core (antena rod) not very gud i think is because the permeability is low, i´m trying to figure out another way easy with no need to build more 2 driver circuits with also two new isolated power supplies...

if anyone can help, basically i need to send +- 15 v to the igbts gates at 50 ma i will than use some zener to limit the voltage... The main problem is that both igbts must be isolated from ground and each other.,.

thanks
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 06, 2010, 16:56:01 pm
This is exactly what i have here exept that i have 4x cd4017 divide by 10 and a 4 way switch giving me range from 150khz to 10 hz

The circuit as it is give you a range from 1khz up to 150khz, if you change the 1nf capacitor by a 10nf capacitor you will get from 100 hz up to 15khz ...

THERE WAS ONLY ONE ERROR IN THIS SCHEMATIC, THE POSITIVE GOING TO THE FIELD COIL DON´T COME STRAIGHT FROM THE BATTERY BUT FROM THE SWITCH... !  NOW IS CORRECT!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 06, 2010, 22:17:20 pm
I HAVE JUST ATACHED THE FIELD COIL AND ONE OF THE PHASES ON THE PCOSCOPE AND I NOTICED THAT DOES NOT MATTER THE FREQUENCY I PULSE ON THE FIELD COIL IT WIL AWAYS BE 120HZ ON THE PHASE COIL...

vERY STRANGE ISN´T ?

I´M THINKING ABOUT CREATING A SIMPLE FREQUENCY GENERATOR TO USE WITH THE MOTOR DRIVING THE ALTERNATOR TO BE ABLE TO CHANGE THE RPM... WHAT YOU THINK ABOUT?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 07, 2010, 14:50:51 pm
So, guys i would like to hear more about you all that is reading this thread.. what do you think about the voltage perform work theory that i came up with? Now that some time passed, i think that you are now more able to visualize what i´m saying. That stan talked about voltage causing self ionization of water and than performed work separating the charges on the dielectric using no energy from the conventional current... and that than discharged those ions generating electricity witch was applied instantaneously to the resonant charging choke and that by transformer action cause the voltage to build up even further! What do you think about the fact that the movable wiper coil was to be the primary that induce on the "secondary" resonant charging choke voltage, and for that reason it should be able to change its inductance value to perfectly tune to the dielectric and resitance proprieties of the water, and to get the rioght ratio between voltage and current, to maximize the resonant effect.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 07, 2010, 15:11:02 pm
I have to say that, stan was not a stupid he was very speciaslised scientist in contrary to what seemed, because he knew that anyone with enough knowledge would be able to understand and repeat what he was doing, the way he hided his secretes was a tentative to protect him against those with knowledge in the prior art;;; I aways knew that the knowledge was the way... I´m not a chemist not a physicist, not a mathematian, i´m a musician and a scientist, i studied so hard in this 5 years about hydrogen, water, energy...  that i can tell you, i don´t find anyone not even in the university that speek my language, they are aways busy with their lifes, i believe those are not scientists, they don´t even want to understand...

The only people witch can understand what i´m saying are you...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 07, 2010, 15:59:55 pm
Thats the good thing of a forum.
But still...
Its always hard to follows the steps of other people.

Have you tried to get voltage of the wfc/ions back into the circuit?
Like Warp and i did with the alternator? Charging the primary(rotor) with use of the wfc?

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 07, 2010, 17:05:19 pm
i JUST NEED TO FINISH ONE MORE OPTOCOUPLER DRIVER CIRCUIT FOR THE IGBTS AND SOLDERING EVERY THING... I´M GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO SOME TESTS IN THE END OF THE DAY...

i WILL TRY IT STEVE...

thANKS
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 07, 2010, 22:09:39 pm
Quote
I have to say that, stan was not a stupid he was very speciaslised  scientist in contrary to what seemed, because he knew that anyone with  enough knowledge would be able to understand and repeat what he was  doing, the way he hided his secretes was a tentative to protect him  against those with knowledge in the prior art;;; I aways knew that the  knowledge was the way... I´m not a chemist not a physicist, not a  mathematian, i´m a musician and a scientist, i studied so hard in this  5 years about hydrogen, water, energy...  that i can tell you, i don´t  find anyone not even in the university that speek my language, they are  aways busy with their lifes, i believe those are not scientists, they  don´t even want to understand...

seems most lack the mindset to approach such knowledge.. like you said they are to busy... in our minds we see it as if we dont try to change this now we are gonna be stuck in a life of resistance ..having to jump though corporate loops to maintain which is nothin more then lack of self sufficiency..  disconnecting all middle and lower from being sovereign beings!

keep going seb! im interesting in hearing your results!!! be patient and double check your work. sometime being in a hurry we can over look somthings which can lead to no results while having the correct idea..

best regards,
outlawstc
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2010, 06:23:18 am
Hello guys i´m almost ready to turn on the power. I just need to connect to the car battery and the igbt drivers to its respective power sources (two laptop 19v 4a ac adaptors)

Than i will check if the signal to the igbts are i expect them to be and than i´m ready. its 1 o-clok... the all thing is very impressive. i´m going to figure out a way to put the images from my phone to this computer...

I would like to make a live meeting on skype tomorow after 16:00  if any of you are interested send me a pm with your skype name and get online tomorow, do any of you know if is possible to mke video meeting with more than 2 computers tell me how please.

BEst Regards to All

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 09, 2010, 19:38:31 pm
~hELLO

I GUESS I DISCOVERED THE FUNCTION OF THE MOVABLE WIPER COIL

IT IS THERE TO ACT AS A PATH FOR THE IONS TO DISCHARGE THEIR ENERGY BY INDUCING FURTHER VOLTAGE IN THE OTHER RESONANT CHARGING CHOKE. hOWVER ITS IMPEDANCE SHOULD BE MAYBE MORE THAN 10 TIMES SMALLER THAN THAT OF THE WATER OTHER WISE CURRENT WILL LIKE TO DISCHARGE INSIDE THE WATER.. .

pICTURE THIS

yOU HAVE 1000 VOLTS THRU WATER

yOU DISCHARGE THIS THRU A COIL WITH 10 OHMS IMPEDANCE, YOU WILL GET 100 AMPS;

iF THIS 100 AMPS BY TRANSFORMER ACTION INDUCE A VOLTAGE IN THE OTHER COIL DURING PULSING OPERATION WITCH IS 10 TIMES BIGGER YOU WILL HAVE 10000 VOLTS BEING INDUCED AT 10 AMPS  AND SO ON

sO IF THE CONTAMINANTS CHANGE THE FREQUENCY WILL ALSO CHANGE BECAUSE WILL CHANGE THE SPEED AND THE AMOUNT OF IONS THAT WILL BE DISCHARGED IN RELATION TO THE CHARGE WITCH IS GETING IN THE CAPACITOR FOR EACH CYCLE.

baSICALY YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO COILS WITH RIGHT PROPORTION AND COUPLING TO REACH THE WATER IONIC RESONACE..

i GUESS THE FREQUENCY WILL BE DICTATED BY THE MUTUAL INDUCTANCE. . ALLONG WITH THE DIELECTRIC OF WATER AND ITS CONTAMINANTS;;;

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 09, 2010, 22:14:50 pm
Hmmm,

Could there be a test setup proving the theory, Fabio?
If you could prove just a small piece, then we could go from there.. ???

Steve
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2010, 03:55:13 am
Really,  you are talking about 100Kwatts being recirculated?

Are you high?

I will admit that I have not shown anything that amounts to a hill of beans,  but this is wacked out B.S.   You have not proved anything either except that you like to post a lot and  ask for money to support your whacked out theories.  I have an open mind not constrained to conventional theories and teachings, but...

I've been working silently and spending A lot of money SUPPLEMENTING MY OWN IDEAS AND NOT ASKING FOR DONATIONS TO SUPPORT ME, MY FAMILY, AND RESEARCH TO DO GOOD FOR THE BETTERMENT OF ALL MANKIND!!!

One more thing.  Sebosfao, are you  Dankie's long lost brother?
Again, sorry everyone, I'm not exactly sure what lit my fuse(probably Tequila hehehe), but I am tired of trying to read about progress and broaden my thinking, only to waste my time on stupid ideas.

There is no wiper on the coil!!!

His drawings are only representations, not real schematics!!!

AND.... the wiper only represents that the circuit is tunable.

How many tunable inductors have you seen that can handle 100Kilowatts?  I mean really W.T.F. ???

The real tuning is through the pulse width,frequency and gate time(number of pulses) of the primary of the transformer vs the value of the bifilar charging chokes.

Uhh, sorry, but I feel better now.

Mike
Edit:  I man'd up, I'm not sorry for posting this!!!

~hELLO

I GUESS I DISCOVERED THE FUNCTION OF THE MOVABLE WIPER COIL

IT IS THERE TO ACT AS A PATH FOR THE IONS TO DISCHARGE THEIR ENERGY BY INDUCING FURTHER VOLTAGE IN THE OTHER RESONANT CHARGING CHOKE. hOWVER ITS IMPEDANCE SHOULD BE MAYBE MORE THAN 10 TIMES SMALLER THAN THAT OF THE WATER OTHER WISE CURRENT WILL LIKE TO DISCHARGE INSIDE THE WATER.. .

pICTURE THIS

yOU HAVE 1000 VOLTS THRU WATER

yOU DISCHARGE THIS THRU A COIL WITH 10 OHMS IMPEDANCE, YOU WILL GET 100 AMPS;

THIS 100 AMPS BY TRANSFORMER ACTION INDUCE A VOLTAGE IN THE OTHER COIL DURING PULiF SING OPERATION WITCH IS 10 TIMES BIGGER YOU WILL HAVE 10000 VOLTS BEING INDUCED AT 10 AMPS  AND SO ON

sO IF THE CONTAMINANTS CHANGE THE FREQUENCY WILL ALSO CHANGE BECAUSE WILL CHANGE THE SPEED AND THE AMOUNT OF IONS THAT WILL BE DISCHARGED IN RELATION TO THE CHARGE WITCH IS GETING IN THE CAPACITOR FOR EACH CYCLE.

baSICALY YOU NEED TO HAVE TWO COILS WITH RIGHT PROPORTION AND COUPLING TO REACH THE WATER IONIC RESONACE..

i GUESS THE FREQUENCY WILL BE DICTATED BY THE MUTUAL INDUCTANCE. . ALLONG WITH THE DIELECTRIC OF WATER AND ITS CONTAMINANTS;;;
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2010, 06:10:54 am
Hello steve

I´m working on it to prove the concept, this weekend i can have more done. Everything is up runing, osciloscope the circuits the igbs... And i noted a strange effect witch a certain configuration... Outlawstc have see it on skype it kind of created a ring and the sound of the alternator get really strange and the wire sharing the ground of the two igbt circuits got really hot anything else did... // I´m trying to find the right configuration.. . I´m really sure about what i´m talking about.

@ mike i hope you feel better

Wake up for life;
i´m giving to you knowledge
you should be at least respectfull

BEst Regards

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2010, 09:20:37 am
there isnt much of a observation over skype my friend.. im not sure what you have going on over there completely just know ur using some igbt's and pulsing a alternator..  sure it made strange noise but this doesnt mean your on the right path.. yea i heard a noise but i didnt see any gas production.. so dont throw me in like you have accomplished somthing and i can back you up... right now seb you have what we call a hypothesis.. this means
a proposition, or set of propositions, set forth as an explanation for the occurrence of some specified group of phenomena, either asserted merely as a provisional conjecture to guide investigation (working hypothesis)  or accepted as highly probable in the light of established facts. keep observing and with experimentation you may be able to propose a theory..

seb you wanna prove yourself make clear drawings and clearly describe your ideas and dont go around saying you have somthing when you havent even got results yet.. funny noises dont count.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2010, 11:55:43 am
People,

Like you all, i had some bad days too. Working day and night at this water as fuel project costs much in money and mind. Doing everything like many claim and then come to conclusions that it doesnt work is frustrating. Doing 100 tests and just see 100 failures is not doing good as well.... >:(

But please keep respect for eachother. Thats really all i want here.
We all read Sebosfato's theory's. We all know by now that he try's to think outside the box.
Why? Because we tried everything thats inside the box. Try to see it as inspiration and not as BS. Who knows. He might tricker your mind and you might link something towards your own experiments.

Mike,
We would like so see more of your experiments, if possible. I seen you around on multiple forums for years. If you shared your knowledge here, we all could use that.
Like i do, for example. Willing to share it all. That way your goals can be reached quicker.
Alone it is not possible. I took some words out your post because i tought they where too much. I left the message in tact. (btw, i like whisky..)

To you all:
I know that many think that they are loonly testers and that too many are lurking.
I have that feeling a lot. I seen so many people reading this forum and just so little amount of info is coming back. Please share all your not working experiments with us. At least it can save others money. But you may share the working ones as well... ;) ;)

Steve

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2010, 20:36:42 pm
Hello guys

i did more tests today and i found again that strange effect.

I developed a schematic for the electron extraction that could work for the vic setup in witch the primary resonates with the water for the discharge cycle and the secondary charge the capacitor..

Basically i think that the secondary must have a diode and in series a coil with fields aiding, this will form an electron pump or a very high impedance and unipolar output, while for the next cycle when the pulse on the primary is reversed the coil is connected to the cell thru one igbt, (having alredy the positive from the battery connected to one of the sides of the cell) thus discharging the ion and restricting amps as the transformer will be full of energy from the discharge....  The coil alredy energyzed but with reversed polariti will than discharge the ions... The vic configuration (secondary with coil in series with a diode there between) with the primary being pulsed but than discharged inside the water instead of reversing the pulse..

Do you understand what i mean?

Now i´m trying to figure a way to do this with the alternator but i´m starting to think that is more complicated...

I need to make many many tests...

Oh mike, about the variable inductor, you could be right or wrong, however there are no limits for an inductor...

one thing that crossed my mind is that it could be there to cancel out the other inductor action as a mean for fine tuning the impedance of the secondary...

who knows..

Steve i´m going to check again your schematic...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2010, 21:37:54 pm
Important things:

The impedance of the water charging circuit must be high.

The impedance of the ions discharging ciruit must be low.

The frequency must double. as water will see a kind of full wave rectied current. being one of the pulses generated by the ions discharge...

I believe there are many ways of achieving the effect but stan tried to cover all them...

The best i belive is this to consume the ions energy to further increase voltage separation... and so on...

The restric current coil or amp inibhiting coil i thought of a coil witch will share both the currents going in oposite directions so closing the circuit but not allowing the electrons influx and also not allow the water to discharge;...

But this implie a center tap on the coils;;; or something else that i didn´t imagined yet.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 11, 2010, 02:25:01 am
Hello guys i today tested full wave bridge rectifier on the alternator and got 16volts (dc on the field coil) on my cell just few bubles, its filtered water with some rain water.

I discovered that my cell to maintain 12 v i need 200ma, with this values i will try to make some calculation. try to find the right ratio.. i don´´t know yet...

I tried the schematics i thought of and didn´t succed yet. However there were more bubles than with 16v ... but i´m not sure maybe the water is not enought ionized... maybe voltage is not enought...

So i will make this thing get power!!! i will make it the solid state way with the vic transformer ( i think will be easier) and the right principle... and than i will power it wiith 220v

I think that i will give my circuit a nice box and buy the transformers for the isolated power suplies... i need to think everything... (i´m feeding it with my notebook ac adaptors)

I believe that possibly my alternator is not being driven fast enough and i´m thinking that i don´t know how to make the alternator output become high impedance high voltage as i want, without further modifications..

i know how to do it with the vic and i saw in a store that is spetialized in transformers here they have C cores E cores ... with the coil formers so i will just get one of this.

=)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 11, 2010, 03:57:31 am
just figured this 12v divided by 0,2 amps = 60ohms

now i just puted some calculations and let the secondary be 60ohms if the primary is 6ohm i have about 3 of transformation factor... just what stan said. 12v 2 amps...

I think that if water reach more than 50 volts it will start to self ionize more and discharge on the primary creating a resonant charging effect that will take voltages up to kilovolts...

Notice that the primary being 6ohms while water is 60ohm... if water have 100 volts and discharge thru the 6ohm impedance and have a certain capacitance lets say 1,5 nf we will have a time that it will discharge... but initially would be a discharge of 100v divided by 6 ohm thus 18amps ... this being applied on the primary witch will induce this energy as voltage ... something like that

if the water was more pure i would have more ohms thus i could have greater voltage transformation ratios.

i thought like this the primary could be the path of discharge of the water... mutch like a RC oscilation... the secondary and charging choke, charges the water and the primary discharges it...

I will try it right now. with a toroidal transformer i have here already...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 11, 2010, 18:42:54 pm
Hello i just figure out something:

I said that my water was 60ohm righ

I calculated the capacitance to be around 1,5 nf so to charge it up to 12v should be only needed 18 nano coulombs witch is the same as 18 nano amps applied for 1 second...

This mean that my water here is way too much conductive...

I was thinking about the 200 ma / 18 nano ampere  is almost 10.000.000 times more conductive than is able to retain charge...

This mean that if i have a period of 1 ms i would need to apply 18 micro amp to charge up the water up to 12v but i would still have 200ua passing as a power lost

i hope you start understanding the impedance relation ;

I have just bought some demineralized water and i´m going to perform some test now...  if is not enought monday i will buy some bi distiled water.

I believe that this is one of the keys

than other important thing is to heat up the water to aid self ionization... maybe add laser energy too...

If all this don´t work i will try using another couple of electrodes (honey comb like) inside the tubes to act as the electron extraction grid stan mention...

many ideas

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 11, 2010, 23:59:03 pm
I discovered today that hot water will conduct 3 times more.

the water from the rain i had was the best one but i have no more...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 12, 2010, 19:36:37 pm
http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py106/ACcircuits.html (http://physics.bu.edu/~duffy/py106/ACcircuits.html)

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 12, 2010, 22:23:49 pm
Guys i just figured out how the circuit should be if i would like to trigger the EEC just before current start to flow in the inductor (vic).

I basically divide the frequency signal from the pll pin 4 by 2 using a 4017 ic and than combine this 2 diferent signals into a nor gate (4001) witch will create a third positive signal when the 2 signals happen to be both 0 logic. Having the vic the ability to double the frequency, its feedback will need no dividing to close the pll circuit...

This will allow me to have a pulse exactly after 90° from the first pulse trigering the vic because the 4429 driver i´m using inverts the signal... other wise i would need to use an and gate instead of a nor gate to have (theoreticaly) the right signal. (also the signal coming from the nor gate must pass thru a optocoupler and again the 4429 as to remain uninverted) as from the drawing

Don´t complain about the drawings, if is not good enough for you to understand, try drawing it yourself... If you still don´t understand, read the datasheets or google logic gates...

For the optocoupler part;

Must have its own isolated power supply
Regulator 7808 (doing good here) 8v
than
in series with the laser diode a 500ohm resistor (this must beconnected to the nor gate circuit grownd and output )

Than the emiter of the opto must go to the isolated grownd such as the 4429 grownd too

the colector from the opto should go to the pin 2 of the 4429 and from the same pin 2 should go a 1 or 2 kohm resistor to the isolated positive

Basically only the diode of the optocoupler should be connected to the first circuit

When the puse go to the optocoupler it will short the pin 2 from the 4429 to the ground making it to start conducting...

i´m going to build this circuit today for doing some tests

I´m trying to understand

Are you?

i Would not like to talk alone.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 12, 2010, 22:51:40 pm
Now

here the circuit Wave forms:

i´m making a study of the current lagging voltage graphics too, for me to understand better this phenomenom ...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 12, 2010, 23:49:52 pm
Usually output impedances should be low, less than a tenth of the load impedance connected to the output. If an output impedance is too high it will be unable to supply a sufficiently strong signal to the load because most of the signal's voltage will be 'lost' inside the circuit driving current through the output impedance ZOUT. The load could be a single component or the input impedance of another circuit.

the input impedance of another circuit

• Low output impedance, ZOUT << ZLOAD
Most of VSOURCE appears across the load, very little voltage is 'lost' driving the output current through the output impedance. Usually this is the best arrangement.

• Matched impedances, ZOUT = ZLOAD
Half of VSOURCE appears across the load, the other half is 'lost' driving the output current through the output impedance. This arrangement is useful in some situations (such as an amplifier driving a loudspeaker) because it delivers maximum power to the load. Note that an equal amount of power is wasted driving the output current through ZOUT, an efficiency of 50%.

• High output impedance, ZOUT >> ZLOAD
Only a small portion of appears across the load, most is 'lost' driving the output current through the output impedance. This arrangement is unsatisfactory.
•
This web site is very good, it have lot of info on electronics... from logic gates to power suplies ...

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/imped.htm (http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/imped.htm)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 13, 2010, 01:04:52 am
sO BASICALY

Inductor

current lags voltage or
WHen a voltage is applied to an inductor, it will readly start to drop while the current will start to flow acelerating electrons in "speed" toward the positive... and when voltage reach the 0 the current reach the maximun speed and than by the back emf created, it reverses its direction and start to accelerate in the reversed direction...

if you apply voltage to an inductor it will make the electrons flow thru its wire and this movement create a magnetic field on the inductor witch is oposed by the permeability of the free space and + that of the core... is mutch like inertia... thus creating bemf.
Like a spring geting compressed full of energy than liberating this energy...

Have current leading the voltage, because the voltage in a capacitor will be the result of the accumulation of charges so it need to accumulate before you have a voltage... ~so current leads voltage...

Is good to remember that voltage is not movement but potential, and current is movement and not potential...

So when all the potential is given to a body it will have its max speed and when this body climbs up the capacitor mountain it will have its potential back.

So when voltage is applied to a capacitor current start to deaccelerate until it reach the min while voltage reached the maximun...

In the inductor current start to accelerate until max speed is reached and just like a spring reverses the direction and start accelerating again in the other direction....

This make me think that meyer maybe was using the vic as a mean of apply voltage to the water ions while not allowing the water to charge than this current that were to start charging the capacitor is redirected to it some how... (probably at 90° phase)

or something like that

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2010, 06:45:32 am
I think i have already said this, but have you thought that the alternator was used to modify the frequeny over some unapparent magical force??? the electric motor was used to adjust the RPM of the Alternator to the desired output. Low voltage and amps meant little power was needed but he simply adjusted the primary on the alternator with a gated signal. Or if you like,
Gated input --- Signal alternator (first frequency) --- Frequency alternator (second frequency) --- Cell. This would line up with Phuriac's work, also why he only needed a small amount of voltage (1.2V per mm gap i would say). If this is true then neither of them birthed this technology simply the method.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2010, 07:50:13 am
ewok i like your idea.. the alternator provides a nice 50 percent duty on it own.. why not use its frequencys to drive resonance! then gate! i wounder if stan was able to vary the rpm continuely to maintain resonance? like the driving motor is speeding up and slowing down determined by a pll circuit that is detecting resonance?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2010, 07:56:34 am
You wait for the idea of self tuning of the first alternator using the conductivity of the water in the cell...
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2010, 08:50:30 am
bam like a bolt of lightning.. light bulb is lit on top of head...

genius!!! so simple it might just work ewok!

can you explain your approach to the task.. you adding salt slowly to a cell containing distilled water??
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2010, 09:13:29 am
If your using frequency to split the water then you will need a voltage range, being that salt water and distilled water will require different voltages in order to split. For a basic start a small gap (work with the same gap as the cell/s) then connect a static generator, the voltage will rise until it can travel through the gap, use the tail end of the connection at the signal wire to adjust input voltage (or ampere depending on wiring)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 14, 2010, 11:30:35 am
Hello guys

i didn´t understood very well what you saying...could you explain me better?

I tryed pulsing the field coil, however the frequency coming out is only dependent on the rpm

Do you guys now about the thane hein bitoroidal transformer?
He claim to be able to create energy by magnetizing a core and inducing this magnetism to another core for being able to use the energy whithout leting the back emf goes back into the primary thus primary have 0 power factor and thus almost 0 power loss...

What i´m saying about retarding the pulse of the secondary or to start its conduction only after 90° could acomplish that couldn´t it?

Think like this you pulse the primary, doing this you magnetize the core, if you have a shorted secondary you will have a very low inductance on the primary and thus you will have high amp consuming... However if you wait until the magnetic field become max or 90° later, you should be able to discharge the magnetic field without making the circuit hungry for amps...

And

I worked all night long on a schematic for the electron extraction circuit and i came up with something that will actually double the frequency as stan said and at the same time would allow the ions to discharge extracting the electrons from the oh- ions and in a separate circuit ( wiper arm coil) give electrons to the H+ ions... without discharge the water...

It would need the coil to be bifilar because you will discharge the magnetic field of one coil into the other;.;

and would restrict amps because the current will flow in oposite directions on the coils...

it would than need 2 or 3 diodes or 2 diodes and one igbt or tiristor i´m not sure...

I started by analising what happen during the pulse and during the of pulse with the voltage on theh coils...

I also figured that stan gave us the impedance calculation for us to be able to design the transformer for driving the coils and water;;

example

water 78ohms + 2 coils maybe 4 ohms + secondary maybe 10 ohms

than you have the impedance so you can chose the primary and secondary inductances of the transformer because you already knows the resonant frequency because you already know the capacitance and inductance....

So lets say you have a 100 ohm load
you design the transformer for this load ar its particular frequerncy

There is not a fit to all frequencyes transformer;;;;

it must be espetialy designed for it to work

Howver the idea is simple (forget the 90° stuff for now)

you apply the pulse to the cell thru the diode and the 1 coil.

when the pulse is of the coil will reverse polarity and the side close to the diode will become positive, there goes a igbt, witch is connected to the negative side of the cell

the negative side of the secondary is connected straight to the negative side of the cell

and also connected to the same negative side of the cell goes the other bifilar coil

The other side of this bif coil witch is coupled to the 1 one; is connected to another diode and than to the positive side of the cell... This would allow to have aN aways positive voltage applied to the cell...

BAsically the cell will have the exact púlse stan shown...

here is the drawing

the bif coils should cancel each other field

notice the polarity

red ones are the polarity during on pulse

and blue off pulse

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2010, 18:32:37 pm
Got some news on my alternator setup

got frequencies like 1250hz fundamental  and  overtones from positive of the bridge rectifier to the middle of the star connection

got 2450hz and harmonics from full bridge rectifier configuration...  up to 45v

i just have a problem my motor is weak and under load will reduce too much its speed.. i have only a 1/3 hp motor :(

however

got an interesting idea

What if!!! we oscillate the water with an inductor causing ac resonance, but we provide a dc off set synchronized with the resonance?

in my opinion the alternating current on the water will not have the 1,24volts limitation and so the dc off set will allow that half of the current of the ac voltage to be dc somehow... check this:

\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.20306040966347483 44 5.0 50
w 496 256 544 336 0
v 96 224 96 320 0 2 10000.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 96 224 192 224 0
d 496 336 496 256 1 0.805904783
T 192 224 288 320 0 0.01 30.0 -3.8312805302159054 0.1281279753822593
r 96 320 192 320 0 0.031
T 368 176 448 256 0 0.0010 1.0 -0.013280367480126981 -0.11484760790211884
w 448 256 448 320 0
c 352 112 464 112 0 1.0E-9 846.3556532423378
d 352 256 352 112 1 0.805904783
w 448 176 352 112 0
w 352 256 368 256 0
w 288 224 288 96 0
w 288 96 400 64 0
w 400 64 464 112 0
r 352 112 400 64 0 10000.0
c 352 256 448 320 0 1.0E-10 -1383.1095449913214
c 368 176 432 224 0 1.0E-10 -1383.0982502691068
w 432 224 448 176 0
l 368 176 464 112 0 0.03 0.026522563918445055
w 288 320 288 352 0
w 448 320 448 352 0
d 288 352 448 352 1 0.805904783
c 288 384 448 384 0 1.0E-7 -386.7594434274493
r 288 416 448 416 0 1.0E8
w 448 384 448 416 0
w 448 384 448 352 0
w 288 352 288 384 0
w 288 384 288 416 0
o 8 1 0 291 1280.0 0.2 0 -1
o 15 1 0 289 640.0 0.2 1 -1
o 9 1 0 289 1280.0 0.4 2 -1
o 5 64 0 33 0.078125 25.6 3 -1
o 19 1 0 35 1280.0 0.4 4 -1
o 15 1 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 5 -1

i added some stray capacitances and resistances
adjusting the inductor in series with the coupled chokes (witch generate the dc offset) you minimize the ac voltage or the negative peak...

jst an idea...

result 4 amps 12v

960v across the capacitor having 81v negative peak... would this make electrolysis???

oh and notice that i'm inputing about 50w peak and i'm getting 90w peak across the resistance...

the boton diode is not really needed but help a bit

this second circuit uses a capacitor instead of the inductor in series and get
6,5amps 12v peak 75w consume

but the resistor see a peak of 1,2kv positive and 100v negative with peak 140watts

\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.37936678946831776 44 5.0 50
v 96 224 96 320 0 2 10000.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 96 224 192 224 0
T 192 224 288 320 0 0.01 30.0 3.4891578105593046 -0.11781053490479582
r 96 320 192 320 0 0.1
T 368 176 448 256 0 0.0010 1.0 0.19521730092645329 0.12404826010594122
w 448 256 448 320 0
c 352 112 464 112 0 1.0E-9 51.92665902947
d 352 256 352 112 1 0.805904783
w 448 176 352 112 0
w 352 256 368 256 0
w 288 224 288 96 0
w 288 96 400 64 0
w 400 64 464 112 0
r 352 112 400 64 0 10000.0
c 352 256 448 320 0 1.0E-10 -59.84658654523578
c 368 176 432 224 0 1.0E-10 -59.790894328792
w 432 224 448 176 0
w 288 320 288 352 0
w 448 320 448 352 0
d 288 352 448 352 1 0.805904783
c 288 384 448 384 0 1.0E-7 -380.3310660406634
r 288 416 448 416 0 1.0E8
w 448 384 448 416 0
w 448 384 448 352 0
w 288 352 288 384 0
w 288 384 288 416 0
c 368 176 432 128 0 9.999999999999999E-5 -7.675582793168587
r 432 128 464 112 0 1.0
o 6 1 0 291 1280.0 0.2 0 -1
o 13 1 0 289 640.0 0.2 1 -1
o 7 1 0 289 640.0 0.8 2 -1
o 3 64 0 33 1.25 25.6 3 -1
o 13 1 1 291 160.0 9.765625E-5 4 -1
o 0 4 1 291 320.0 9.765625E-5 5 -1

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2010, 18:51:19 pm
With standard electrical  components (capacitors, resistors, diodes transformers and logics) it is only possible to get 8.5 volts in the water fuel cell without causing amps.. sure you can get 45 but there are amps..
Sure you could put a capacitor in series to restrict amps but then you are isolating electrically.. Sure you could connect a resistor in parallel with the capacitor but does it give the same effects as figure 7 under a load? no.

First comes understanding Stans plate resistor (uniquely made electrical component), then comes the rest of the  conventional parts.

Column 8 Row 65

"In generation of the hydrogen and oxygen gasses to an infinite limit,  as not yet fully appreciated, the upper level of voltage level is  removed WITH the UTILIZATION of the ELECTRON INHIBITOR of FIGURE 7"

The voltage level is 8.5 volts MAX with conventional parts without leakage of amps. So if you want to get higher then 8.5 volts it would be wise to take stans statement as true..

Its like the answer is in front of you but your still on a path ignoring this fact as if it weren't true..

A circuit simulator wont show you the answers.. It doesn't have the option of adding Stan's unique component into the simulator..
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 21, 2010, 22:15:34 pm
yes i agree with you that simulation is not going to simulate perfectly his strange components and its interactions... however on the simulation the capacitor with the resistor in parallel was the wfc ... i tried to substitute this by a small value 100ohm resistor and worked even better too... what i tried to show with this simulation is that i created a dc off set using the charging chokes mutually coupled and got higher voltage on the "water capacitor" load than the transformer was putting out...  the transformer should only give 360v and i was getting up to 1200 volts with the 10kohm water resistance... using only 70 watts.. well i think this is a good figure..

i have figured out another thing

while analyzing the harmonic frequencies coming out from my alternator i get this

Fundamental = 1,140 Hz
2° Harmonic FX2 = 2,280 Hz
3° Harmonic FX3 = 3,420
4° Harmonic FX4 = 4,560
5° Harmonic FX5 = 5,700

Do you remember his equipment electrical polarization process...  X, X2, X3, X4
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2010, 05:14:52 am
well got some nice frequencies coming out alternator... 55volts applying 12v to the field coil... however under load the speed change so as frequency... actually the motor don't stand not even to charge the battery(got a new battery today), not even using the voltage regulator... capacitor fries cause rpm drops with load and it drop a lot... got to get a 2hp motor...(my is 1/3 Hp)

however harmonic frequencies are multiples of the fundamental, like i described.. many harmonics...

strangely 3phase full wave rectified with the six diodes not on the neutral.. i get less harmonics and fundamental is 2,280khz (double)

now i think is about driving the vic and adjust the chokes to match the right frequency... Need to understand also the wavelength thing better too... I think that i'm going to the university today and find someone that can help... =)

i will try think of this device as it was a filter. taking the high frequencies from one side §(water) and low frequencies to the inductors side... band pass maybe.. while still having a dc offset

got to find a motor today too!

but i'm going to try this things about the harmonics here,...

I was reading something really interesting about dangerous torsional resonances on crankshafts of generators witch cracks the crankshafts. The document is in my language and is from serious university of electrical engineering...

it also explains very well alternator connections and phase power ... there is one type called zigzag hehe

from now i will use neutral for the center of the star...

i would like to rewound the alternator with smaller gauge wire to get higher voltage... hell of work...

the frequency of each individual secondary of the alternator is 380 hz so i think that i have +- 3,800 Rpm...

i believe that stan used a similar rpm or close too... maybe he had a bit bigger because the alternator pulley in the picture seems a bit less than half the driving pulley... mine is half ...

more will come
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 22, 2010, 16:55:58 pm
You will need to use frequencies in multiples of your flat output.
Example,
If you put a flat 12v through your rotor and you get 1250Hz, then you should hit your rotor with say 5000Hz (AC) this, when rectified will give you the wave form you are looking for.
Also if your motor starts to slow down this is because you are pushing out amps, if your doing this then your moving away from the method described. Alternatively you can send a FM tranmission through an AM transmitter, or visa-versa. This will give you greater control over your output frequencies and the amount of amps you want to use.
I suggest you look at 200-2khz for you primary then 20-200hz for your secondary (numbers based of the AP patent 4394230)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 23, 2010, 02:25:38 am
problem is that the motor is not able not eve to charge the battery... it turns too fast...

i went down town today to find a motor but didn't found a good one yet...

i will get one 1800rpm 2 hp so i can use the same pulley witch costed me already bit.. probably i will need to machine it again to adjust to the other motor..

Actually the alternator is putting out the unipolar pulses at 1140hz... when i pulse it it mix the frequencies... i have a distorted unipolar pulses...

I thought about making it resonant adding a capacitor so as to be able to reverse the polarity of the field poles,,, it has a reminiscent magnetism witch don't allow the field to reverse...

i found a variac like 1,5kw for about 120 euros... there are ten of this... they are used.. was from a fabric... i would like pulse the field coil with the unipolar too 120hz witch i think that is important because is a multiple (or almost) of the 1140hz

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 24, 2010, 18:24:02 pm
I tried pulsing the alternator and got the following results... (using the same 1/3 hp motor)

Battery will charge if i pulse the field coil and the driving motor fell very little change in speed... i can pulse it from 10hz up to 100khz ... pulsing at 10 hz i get the battery charging a bit charging more than is discharging.. the field coil at this condition have 11v and 260ma 10hz...

If i raise the frequency, the amps get down to almost zero..

when i'm higher than 10khz the amps start to raise and can reach up to 1 amp close to 50khz... at about 700ma(field  coil) the battery get 13,5 volts charging and the motor experiment a bit of force...(slow down just a bit) if i get up to 1 amp it experience big force...

Conclusion : will keep working =) with this motor for now.. .

Strange is that using the voltage regulator the motor will not keep turning... but pulsing the field it will..

I think that at higher pulsing frequencies the field coil or my pulsing circuit is not able to completely reverse the field thus maybe i'm getting dc on the field coil... but i'm not sure... my meters are bit crap...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 24, 2010, 19:30:14 pm
The rotor (field coil) has a certain resistance, say 3 Ohms for mine, so under a DC voltage the total impedance is just 3 Ohms

When you start pulsing the rotor (field coils) you create inductive reactance (impedance), which is proportional to the frequency. Higher Frequency = Higher Impedance.

The pulsed frequency effects both the rotor and the stator, increasing the impedance in both, and then reducing the amps.

If you find the self resonant frequency of the Stator then impedance will be a maximum, and you will restrict amps to a minimum.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 24, 2010, 19:57:00 pm
Yes i understand this... and i think that is what is happening here, up to a point... because things are behaving strange

lets say 10 hz

my field coil has 3 ohms also and 22mh

so at ten hertz the reactance impedance should be 1,4 ohms

so the impedance should be around 4 ohms this should make at least 3 amps flow having 13v, but i'm getting 260ma ..

Is very strange for me... Seems like the armature add a kind of extra impedance to the change of the current direction-- but i'm not sure if this is the case.. .will keep experimenting,

i'm going to try adding a capacitor in parallel or a diode to the field coil and check what happens!

Oh and the most stranger behavior is that at a frequency higher than 10khz the amps start to get higher... at 100khz i get 1,20 amps...

I don't know if is the meter witch is crap... i'm going to try with the other meter witch can measure dc or ac current...

Thanks Donald

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 30, 2022, 23:30:45 pm
My alternator  setup
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2022, 08:46:51 am
That was an strange behavior i still don’t know what was happening but still get that alternator here and is going to be put to test soon... it seems like yours but time consumed the wood i used as base..

You have a nice setup. compliments.. have you tried pulsing it?

i was looking about 3 phases and found something interesting

Disadvantages of Three Phase Induction Motor
The disadvantages of a 3-phase induction motor are given as follows −

The 3-phase induction motors are constant speed motors; hence their speed control is very difficult.
3-phase induction motors have poor starting torque and high inrush currents (about 4 to 8 times of the rated current).
They always operate under lagging power factor and during light loads, they operate at very worst power factor (about 0.3 to 0.5 lagging).

Its a kind of transformer with a shorted coil... it pulls the coil forwards and it keeps going...

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 31, 2022, 13:28:22 pm
My alternator  setup

Nice!
the bubbles escape your cell :-)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 12, 2022, 09:05:10 am
Multiphase has being in my Mind for days…

Somehow I think the alternator may be the easiest way to get good gas going

Along with infrared, pressure control or maybe vacuum

And probably capacitors to allow the resonance to come over

Meyer mention the tay he Han patent and most probably he used this tech into his and was likely one of the secrets

I think the cell must operate in very much like the way I did the tests 14 years ago but instead using two coils for the resonance at least

The reason is that is was not doubling the frequency… I had the coil and capacitors only on the outer tubes with the diodes back to back from outer to inner tubes in that two isolated cells prototype

So having another coil would let the frequency to double at each capacitor

Also I think the primary must have two sections and two drivers…

For the three phase may not be different but need 3 sets of electordes capacitors a motor to use as a coil conected to the belt and a driver 3 phase for it…

I was thinking of something of gas come out ionized there will always be a deficit of electrons in the cell and subtle capacitance is between the cell and secondary….  It depends if should Be in parallel or series…

The idea of multiphase seems to me like a way to get reactive power to be useful waking the fields thru the cells

I hope to get some time to get my alternator configured to test like this soon

Also want to try the Vic ideas…

Title: Why the outer tube is the positive?
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 12, 2022, 09:10:52 am
I was thinking about the water molecule and the way we imagine it is like a two hydrogen molecules and one of oxigênio and when it’s in gas phase they would have the same molecular size however in water molecule liquid the hydrogen may be just a small point near 8 times bigger oxygen atom

So the bigger atom need higher surface to align better?

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 12, 2022, 15:56:33 pm
Fabio, i dont understand your question here....
Can you re write it?
Bigger in sense of more mass?
And where did you read that in the gassious state, the hydrogen and oxygen atoms have the same size?

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 13, 2022, 07:10:26 am
All the gas molecules have the same volume at same pressure and temperature that’s what I mean… for example hydrogen is two parts and oxygen one although it’s 8 time heavier when we split the molecule

However in water molecule form the oxygen is much bigger so in liquid state the oxigên oxygen occupy a larger space and so maybe the radial configuration should be better with the positive from the outer electrode…just a guesss

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2022, 08:09:20 am
Interesting :)
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 22, 2022, 11:53:07 am
Pressure is equivalent to gravity force in a sense and so it is possible to convert this force  into work

Kelvin water drop is a manner to generate electricity using charging by induction principle

Is a low current high voltage power source and so is no so useful

Generating h2 generates pressure so the mass of h2 o2 x pressure equal to work… of course real world situation would prevent too high of pressure but from This we can conclude that work can be extracted back after generating the gas

Now…if we have pressure, and mass to flow, should be possible to use this in a feedback manner reducing the input energy required

My guess is that it could be using the kelvin mechanism to generate electricity and afterwards further causing ionization of the gas

There is aways balance so if we take electron from somewhere it will be in excess elsewhere so I’m not sure how far Meyer is from theory

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2022, 04:56:18 am
I always thought that the epg was powerd by the pressure of the produced hho gas....

Cheers
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 30, 2022, 15:20:35 pm
Back to the alternator idea, perhaps as the induction 3 phase motor is not synchronized it’s load in reference to the alternator if connected to a belt as load and as source of electricity will be equivalent to the rpm relation among the two… so if the induction motor is to run at 3600 rpm and the alternator is at 3000 it will be pushing the alternator rpm up with the alternator voltage…. I think it would need to be a multipolar 3 phase motor to get up with the frequency… or maybe the gate could do this job of converting to a lower frenquecy but it would need to be in sync to resonate or something
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2022, 08:15:58 am

In this links you see the electromagnetic force an electron will experience if a beam of light walks thru it….

Basically to increase the electric field you can focus the beam to a point and now this come to that movie about cold fusion with Morgan freeman

A focus beam of light interacting with high voltage fields

Basically the light may have enough energy to initially disturb the electron to a position where the electric field applied will be relevant to keep the molecule atoms apart

Because Meyer say there is no current involved it seems to me that the reaction may cause a sort of series discharge along the water thickness as it had hundreds of cells in series… that can only be possible if the point of resonance is achieved because the molecules within the volume is going to be polarized just like the molecules around the plates

Laser energy may be required or maybe focus sunlight could be used for tests… however of course is not practical

Meyer talk about infrareds and visible light

Infrareds are in the absorption spectrum of water as it causes stretching or vibrating and or combinations of it at specific frequencies

The reason why I believe it extremely necessary to really do any effect in the molecule is because of the order of magnitude of the electron field is kind of 1000fold of the obtainable electric field applied to water

If  we consider quantum mechanics it tells that there is energy there already and so there may be moments where the electrons are in a region where it is able to receive the electric field

Looking at it from a laser perspective if most of molecules are resting in peace than is not possible to achieve lasing laser occurs when all the energy of the molecules are trigered and released all at once

So we need to pump the molecules to that state to be able to get that triggereable reaction

My educated guess is that this energy would be released in the form of monoatomic molecules that secondarily forms diatomic molecules generating heat (vibration) or perhaps a burst of  same light  that may return the energy to surrounding molecules of water

If we have a piece of iron laying in the ground and we want a magnet to be able to pull it up it than it need to have a force greater than gravity to start any movement of the iron in the up direction.

Similarly if water is in the energy range where it has a rest state it will not be able to oscillate by the electric field applied if it’s not greater than the force holding the water together, however I imagine that any disturbance invalidates this already since it is not in rest state anymore than there may be interaction of the applied electric field to some extent even if very small.

Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 13, 2022, 08:53:52 am
Meyer had a spherical cell design with an opening for a laser

This tell me that the laser may only be needed for the starting of the reaction
As I described there is a possibility that when the electrons are recombined it creates a new photon that will keep going

Somehow it may become full of photons and that’s the point of gas on demand

Looking into the easer
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 08, 2022, 07:02:41 am
Laser cut

electro erosion

Light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation

co2 laser? Mirrors? Water laser?

From what I understand when the population is said inverted and a beam of light cross it it get amplified..

Would the same occur with water?
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 08, 2022, 09:58:56 am
The good thing is that the available lasers are way more powerfull then at the time Meyer was working on this...
If you make a shiny spherical cell, then you should be able to run some tests and see if the gas is powerfull that comes out or maybe the cell is more energy efficient.

My 2 cents.
Title: Re: ALTERNATOR
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 08, 2022, 20:06:43 pm
Yes man!

i think this is my goal... perhaps find a way to see if there is some EASING action could be an indication that it could be the way... water being the lasing medium under discharge, just like a co2 tube...

i think the tubes could be used too with two mirrors on both sides but having a way to let the laser light source get in...

From what i remember lasers have one mirror with 5% transparancy to get the laser out or something