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Projects by members => Projects by members => Mina => Topic started by: mina on July 31, 2010, 06:17:39 am

Title: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2010, 06:17:39 am
Welcome spectators and skeptics alike.  Please have a chair and get comfortable as this thread should be fun if it stays on course.  In order to foster this type of atmosphere and objective, please read the following guidelines in their entirety:

·   Please follow this general set of ground rules which only pertains to this particular thread before posting ANYTHING.
·   Please do not post in this thread if you have nothing to contribute.
·   Please do not use any derogative or otherwise defamatory remarks towards anyone posting in this thread.
·   Please stay on topic.

Now that we have that out of the way, let me begin by explaining the nature of the project being showcased in this thread. 
 
This thread is dedicated to Stanley Meyer’s demo fuel cell. The same one he used to convince the reluctant United States Patent and Trademark Office that his technology was actually legitimate. It was largely because of this demo cell that the USPTO finally granted Meyer his patent(s).
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2010, 16:38:47 pm
The reason I am making this my first project on this forum is because I believe this device (the tubular array demonstration water fuel cell or whatever you choose to call it) to be crucial in laying down a solid foundation concerning the discoveries of Stanley Meyer. If we don’t understand exactly how this device operates and how to build it, then there is really no need to dabble into more advanced concepts and related devices as this, in my humble opinion, would become just another classic example of putting the cart before the horse.
 
I believe you must be able to crawl before you can walk. Walk before you can run and run before you can fly. Until we are able to produce copious amounts of hydroxy gas, there is no need to start talking about water injectors, gas processors, plasma spark plugs or fitting our devices to internal combustion engines. This is a journey back to the basics of Stanley Meyer.
 
I’ve watched many other threads that attempted to tackle the demo cell in the past here and on other forums only to become convoluted and hijacked by experimenters trying to steer the direction of these threads away from their original purpose. I’m trying to avoid this happening in this one.
 
Let us now begin to crawl.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2010, 17:59:21 pm
I agree with you, that is why I started with the early systems, and studied the alternator and drew the connections between it and the VIC coil, and worked my way into a better understanding. The early systems are important to learn from. A nice demo cell will always be a nice demo cell to use for demonstrations after you have progressed.


(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v81/bigbuba/Picture38-2.png)



However, looking back now, after all the work I've done. I think a Variable Spacing Plate Cell would be more useful than a Tubular Array Cell. This is because you will be able to vary the capacitance over a large range and experiment with various coils and VICs.


Also, many have built nice tubular arrays, and failed because they didn't understand the requirements of the Control and Driver Circuit, and the VIC. The cell is ONLY one part.







Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2010, 18:48:03 pm
Please allow me to go over some of the specific objectives of this thread. The goal of this thread is to explain how to build Meyer’s demonstration water fuel cell step by step in detail. When we are finished building the cell correctly, we will be generating copious amounts of hydroxy gas in the same manner that Stanley did. In order for our objectives to be met, our resulting water fuel cell must:
 
·   Produce hydroxy gasses well in excess of Faraday’s Law regarding input power/gas production.
·   Remain cool to the touch without excess heat after running for hours.
·   Be as simplistic as possible to build and replicate.
·   Remain ELECTROLYTE and ADDITIVE FREE.
   
In preparation for this project, I have ordered materials to begin this build well in advance of starting this thread. I have also constructed a customized lab which is a stand alone structure that is 12 feet wide by 20 feet long and is 11 feet tall from the ground up. It has a 70AMP, 240 volt service complete with overhead fluorescent lighting inside. For anyone who is interested in building such a structure of their own, I will be starting an additional thread complete with plans and assistance at a later date located in my projects section.
 
This thread will be the first time that I have ever allowed anyone (besides my close friends and family) to look inside my lab and see my setup. I will be posting many color photos of my water fuel cell build as we go.
 
I have spent thousands of dollars of my own money and countless hours pouring over hundreds of postings to get to where I am at currently. I know many of you on this site have done the same if not much, much more. I only mention these facts to you in order to convey the seriousness and determination of my efforts here. Please understand that this undertaking is NOT all about me and it’s not all about being clever. It’s about our planet. It’s about our neighbors. It’s about our children. It's about making a change before it's too late. It’s about the future generations who will inherit what we leave behind.
 
Regards,
mina

    
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2010, 18:58:24 pm
Sounds Good, If you wish I can provide insight and drawings for how I replicated the construction of Stan's Demo Cell.


I'm just pointing out the most beautiful cell in the world is just a paper weight if you don't put the same focus and energy and money into the VIC and the Control and Driver Circuits.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2010, 23:15:23 pm
Sounds Good, If you wish I can provide insight and drawings for how I replicated the construction of Stan's Demo Cell.


I'm just pointing out the most beautiful cell in the world is just a paper weight if you don't put the same focus and energy and money into the VIC and the Control and Driver Circuits.

Hi Donald,
 
Yes, I would like that very much if you would post drawings on the tubal array as well as insight into construction tips in order to save time and effort in building the cell.  I respect your work and input very much as you have been a very instrumental person and key voice on this site.  Your help is deeply appreciated.
 
Anyone else who also has additional insight, experience and may have even worked with Meyer himself is also invited to share their input and expertise too.  It can only benefit the viewers of this thread and its objectives in doing so.
 
And to the rest of those reading and following this thread; feel free to ask questions.  ANY questions.  I will try to answer them to the best of my ability.  When I can not (or if I am mistaken), I’m confident that someone else more knowledgeable than I with Meyer’s demo cell will step in and address your inquiries.  You will not be slammed for your questions no matter how silly they may seem to you.  Here’s your chance to learn, share and participate. 
 
For those of you who have very little tolerance for the ignorant; I ask you to please show some restraint.  Please remember that you were one of these people at one time in your development that used to ask these very same types of questions. 

I’m confident we can all get to the finish line and complete this project.  The key is getting there together.



Sincerely,
mina
Title: The Reactor Assembly - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2010, 00:55:54 am
The reactor assembly is where we might as well begin.  I have right in front of me the stainless steel tubes that I have purchased from a vendor by the name of McMaster-Carr.  The outer tubes are 0.75” in outer diameter and their wall thickness is 0.035”.  The type of stainless steel is type 304 and is seamless.  My cost was about $140.00 USD.  You could probably find a less expensive source if you shop around.  I have yet to cut the tubes to size but to the best of my knowledge, they should be 18” in length, but I am getting ready to cut them each 24” long in order to make a tab extending from the bottom that I can form into an upside down numeral “7” shape as Meyer did.
 
If these dimensions are off, feel free to say so but the drawings I have from Meyer’s patent appear to be typos.
The reactor housing I am making is constructed of cast acrylic tubing.  The tube is 6” in outer diameter and 5.5” inner diameter making it .25” wall thickness.  It is 36” in length however I believe Meyer’s housing was only 24” long.  The tube cost me about $120.00 USD from McMaster-Carr.  Again, not the cheapest source but simply more convenient for me logistically.   

I am using a longer/taller reactor housing in order to use the extra space at the top as additional hydroxy storage to act as a buffer for gas production later on.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2010, 01:15:25 am
The outer tubes were 18 inches long and inner tubes 19 inches long. My best guess is the acrylic tube was about 30 inches tall.


The mounting tabs were welded on, not formed from the tube, that method will cause you some trouble.


If you are going to drill and tap the acrylic tube to bolt on the end pieces then you would want a thicker acrylic wall, 1/4 wall will likely crack and ruin the tube.


Here is a quick drawing of the base, the main idea is to align the tubes perfectly, and sealed without leaks
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2010, 01:44:20 am
Thanks for the correction, Donald.  I was just now setting up to cut the tubes with a fiber bladed cut-off saw.  Luckily I haven’t made my first cuts yet.  You are a handy guy to have around  :)

Because TIG welding is required, I’ll have to send the tubes out to be welded.  I only have a wire feed MIG welder here at my shop/lab.  (Nice cell of yours by-the-way)

As far as the outer housing acrylic tube; I had a different idea in mind for sealing the end caps.  I bought some rubber “O” rings that are 6” in outer diameter that I was going to place in a piece of .75” flat plastic sheet with an “O” shaped groove routered in the middle of it.  For ease of construction, I was planning to use 4 pieces of .25” all-thread the length of the housing with four winged nuts at the top for the seal. 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2010, 02:19:33 am
You may be able to Mig weld... maybe try it on some scrap SS and see how it turns out. And in any case, be sure the person welding is aware of the tubes warping due to heat. Especially with 0.035" wall thickness, you can melt right through that extremely easy. The tabs that hold my outer tubes up are 0.031" thick, they allow it to vibrate freely, and can't take too much power when welding.


The threaded rods are not as visually appealing, do you have a means of threading and tapping? Then you can use solid rods.
Acorn nuts look nicer than wing nuts.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2010, 12:34:42 pm
Hi Mina,
 
I will jump in as soon as i think i can add something usefull!
Good project!
 
Steve
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 00:58:31 am
Hi everybody,

I’m trying to upload some photos but this is my first time uploading photos here and I may need to upload them first to another host site.  Anyways, I hope to have them posted before the end of the day.

@Donald:
MIG welding causes too much distortion/warping so I’ll have to find a shop that can TIG weld them.  I’ll have them use a piece of scrap of mine first and see how that turns out.

The solid rods are a nice touch and much more aesthetically pleasing to the eye however I have already purchased the all-thread so I’ll use it for now.  The acorn nuts can be added once I have the overall length determined with the all-thread.  Later I can go back and make it pretty.

@Steve:
Thanks for the compliment.  All of us here on this forum owe a great deal of gratitude to you in return for providing us all with a place to post these threads in the first place.  Thank you for making all of this possible.  My hat is off to you.

Regards,

mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 01:22:05 am
This photo was taken today in my shop/lab.  It's the cast acrylic tube that will become the reactor housing.  It's 3 feet in height :o
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 01:37:16 am
This is just a close-up of the outer exciters (cell electrodes)  :P
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 01:43:34 am
This last photo is just the bench I use to assemble the electronics  ;) 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2010, 02:06:31 am
Looking Good mina!



Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 07:21:42 am
Hi everybody,

Today I located a shop that will do the TIG welding on the outer .75” diameter stainless steel tubes.  The owner of this welding shop is going to let me come down in 2 weeks from now and watch the pros at work.  He’s a little busy right now so I had to make an appointment.  He’s very interested personally in this project.  I’m bringing some scrap with me to see how that turns out first.

I decided to wait until the .75” tubes are welded before I drill out the plastic spacers/holders.  Instead of drilling 9 holes now and trying to match the tubes to the holes, I decided to wait until the tubes are welded first.  I’ll then be able to drill the holes to match the position of the tubes.

The guys at the welding shop suggested making a template and a jig for the figure “7” mounting brackets so that all 9 tubes end up the same for uniformity purposes.

My next post is going to be about my own theories concerning Stanley Meyer’s earlier stages of development.  They will only be my own personal theories and not necessarily fact.  Just a little warning in advance.

@guests:
If you are visiting this site as a guest, you will not be able to view any of the photos in this thread.  You must become a member to have this ability.  I just thought I would through this in just in case you were wondering why you can not see any drawings or photos as a guest.  This might be a nice excuse for you to register now and become a member  ;)
 
Regards,
mina
 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 03, 2010, 17:28:41 pm
When I made my outer tubes with the tabs I did this...


first drill the base-mounting hole in all the tabs while they are still straight, do your math to figure out where you want them, you want the hole to be inline with the center of the tube when it is bent and welded



bend all the tabs at the exact same time, using a rectangular metal bar and some clamps, clamp all the metal tabs to the metal table on the band saw, all exactly even in a line, then bend them all up against the clamped metal bar 90 degrees, then re-position them and bend them all 45 degrees, then re-position them and bend them 45 degrees again to make the right shape


then i had a piece of steel rod, made on the lathe, that would slide nicely inside the outer tube, 0.625", then it had a reduce diameter at one end to 0.250", this rod would slide inside the outer tube and the end would slide into the hole in the bent tab, thus aligning it correctly, clamp them together and weld them, use this rod to check all the alignment


if you don't want to use spacers you have to do a perfect job or the tubes will touch, of course using spacers is easy and probably wont change much for performance



Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2010, 06:52:47 am
@Donald:
Thanks for the advice regarding shaping/bending the tabs.  This will save me a lot of time and trouble in achieving uniformity.  I am going to go with your advice.  Friday after work, I’m going to buy a flat sheet of 304 stainless steel to cut up into strips that will become the figure “7” brackets.  Great idea!

While we’re on the subject of the tabs/brackets, can you tell me where you were able find the 0.031” thickness specification?  Also, should the strips be .5” wide or is there another specific width?
Title: Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 1
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 04, 2010, 07:50:17 am
Hi everybody,

Here are some of the theories I have formed concerning Stanley Meyer’s earlier stages of development.  Keep in mind that these theories may or may not reflect what actually took place.

Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 1:

In Stan’s early HHO research, he built many different cells with various different plate configurations to determine the ideal (most efficient) plate shape.  He determined the tubal array to be the most efficient design with regards to input power/gas production.  He also built a cell with adjustable plate spacing in order to determine the ideal plate gap/spacing between plates.  This is where I believe he came up with the spacing for his famous demonstration cell you can see in his videos that was powered by an alternator.

At first glance, the cell seems to be a straight forward version of what anyone can find in his early patents.  But then one day it suddenly dawned on me.  We were all being misled.  After extensive investigation, I started finding discrepancies in his patents verses what I saw in the videos. 

For example; in his videos of the demo cell, I noticed what appeared to be a wire clipped to the outside of one of the .75” stainless steel tubes.  However, in his patent drawings of the demo cell, not only were they not described but they were also completely omitted from the drawings altogether.

Then there was the time Meyer refused requests to look into his “black box” connected to the cell.  I kept asking myself why Meyer would refuse these requests if everything in the “black box” was fully documented in his patents anyways.  It was then that I started to suspect that things were purposely missing from his filed patents. 

(TO BE CONTINUED)
Title: Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 1 (CONTINUED)
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2010, 06:28:14 am
If you view the “Meyers Estate videos by Dynodon64” here on this forum, you will notice something very interesting in a couple of the videos.  As Don pans over the cell, you will eventually discover that the wire that used to be clipped onto one of the tubes in Stan’s videos before he died is now magically gone!  Vanished as in now you see it, now you don’t.  Where did it go?  Who removed it?  Why was it there in the first place?

Now let’s return to the patent drawing of the demo cell.  Let’s examine Meyer’s demo cell drawing labeled “EXHIBIT E2: TUBULAR CLUSTER ARRAY”.  Examining the part of the drawing in which the upper portion of the outer tubes are depicted, notice there are vertical slots cut at the tips of the tubes.  Also notice there are no lines drawn and description given as to what these slots are for.  Why is there no description given?  Why are there no dimensions (width and height) disclosed?  What are the slots for?  Some have suggested they are for tuning purposes (which I also believe) however, here again, they are never mentioned in the patents.

I’ve been told that tube “tuning” videos exist on how to tune the tubes but I’ve yet to see one.  If you have any information whatsoever regarding these questions, I’d love to hear them.  Please do tell or speculate.  If you have a link to where the video(s) can be located, please post the link.

With my demo cell build, I will be experimenting with many different components and combinations of components that to my knowledge have never been tried before.  I will then be posting my results with as much data as I can offer so you can all find out how these different approaches panned out.  I will also be making digital videos in which I will be posting on youtube.com for the world to see.  Implementation that show the most promising results will be followed up with further testing and design modifications. 

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 05, 2010, 08:36:53 am
a Volt is a Joule per Coulomb


V=J/C


if you apply a volt to a tube with 10 Coulombs of electrons in the metal atoms then how many Joules does each C get?


1 = J/10


J = 0.1


if you apply 1 volt to a different sized tube, which has 12 Culombs of electrons in the metal atoms then how many Joules does each C get now?


1 = J/12


J = 1/12 = 0.08333...


so both our tubes get 1 Volt, but since they are different sizes, they get different amounts of energy


so we should make them have the same amount of Coulombs, which means same amount of electrons, which means same amount of atoms, which means the same amount of mass, which means the same weight
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2010, 07:36:44 am
Now the idea is to build the cell as close as possible to Stan’s but since I’m missing information (such as the clipped on wire) I can only get so close to his.  Then I will be building his circuits (such as the VIC from his patents) and using them first simply as benchmarks.  When the initial stages of testing is completed, I don’t expect the results to far exceed that of the typical results achieved by most.  Keep in mind that I will only be using these results as benchmarks.

I can see that nobody knows (or wants to speculate on) what that wire was that was clipped onto the cell plate so I’ll leave that out until I get past my initial testing.  The other different components and combinations of components that I intend to implement will be experimented with at the conclusion of my initial testing.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 06, 2010, 10:08:01 am
Now the idea is to build the cell as close as possible to Stan’s but since I’m missing information (such as the clipped on wire) I can only get so close to his.  Then I will be building his circuits (such as the VIC from his patents) and using them first simply as benchmarks.  When the initial stages of testing is completed, I don’t expect the results to far exceed that of the typical results achieved by most.  Keep in mind that I will only be using these results as benchmarks.

I can see that nobody knows (or wants to speculate on) what that wire was that was clipped onto the cell plate so I’ll leave that out until I get past my initial testing.  The other different components and combinations of components that I intend to implement will be experimented with at the conclusion of my initial testing.

Regards,
mina

Mina,
 
There is a schematic in Stans documents that shows a third wire at the tubes.
That wire isnt going anywhere and might be exactly what you are talking about...
 
Steve
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2010, 04:53:21 am
Now the idea is to build the cell as close as possible to Stan’s but since I’m missing information (such as the clipped on wire) I can only get so close to his.  Then I will be building his circuits (such as the VIC from his patents) and using them first simply as benchmarks.  When the initial stages of testing is completed, I don’t expect the results to far exceed that of the typical results achieved by most.  Keep in mind that I will only be using these results as benchmarks.

I can see that nobody knows (or wants to speculate on) what that wire was that was clipped onto the cell plate so I’ll leave that out until I get past my initial testing.  The other different components and combinations of components that I intend to implement will be experimented with at the conclusion of my initial testing.

Regards,
mina

mina, any materials that are used inside the cell has to be stainless steel and preferably all pieces need to be of the same grade. Even using two different grades of stainless steel in close proximity to each other can cause a galvanic corrosion effect. With my setup, I used stainless steel quilting clips which are very much like money clips but alot cheaper. I did not weld them or attach them to the outer electrode(anode) since they are simply pressure clips. It also allows for slight adjustments.
"Pals Binding Clips"
(http://www.clotilde.com/images/products/closeups/5366.jpg)
These little gems are cheap, easy to drill, bend or make just about any shape and still retain a good amount of spring to them for the non-solderable clip attachment much like how batteries click into things. You could weld them on too or even use silver epoxy.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2010, 21:09:21 pm
Hi everybody,

To everyone who is contributing to this thread, I must say that I am very impressed!  I thank you for your input.  I assure you that your investments (your knowledge, time and effort) are not being wasted and are not only appreciated, but they will also lead to better returns for everyone who can benefit from Stanley Meyer’s technology.  Your input allows us all to make a collective effort towards the goal of this thread.  Two minds are better than one but a thousand minds are better still! We will all reap the rewards of this concerted effort.  It’s sort of like having you all beside me in my shop assisting me ;D

@Steve:
If you could please post a link or a source where I might find this document where this third wire is mentioned, I will study this schematic for further clues.  Great input!
 
@Bubz:
I will be searching for a local source that I can purchase some of these clips from to experiment with.  They appear to be very useful for lots of different purposes.  Thank you.  By-the-way, I believe I did see the video that you made of your cell that was powered by an alternator.  I am also looking to purchase the same variable transformer and full wave bridge rectifier that you used in your setup.  Would you be able to point me in the right direction for locating these items as well?

@Everyone:
The results I will be posting during various stages of this build will be as follows:

•   Gas production in LPM per watt of input.
•   Temperature of the water bath at room temperature (in degrees Fahrenheit).
•   Temperature of the water bath after various increments of run time.
•   Cell capacitance (in microfarads).
•   Wave forms being generated (oscilloscope shots).
•   Cell pressure being developed in real time (PSI). 
•   Resistance across the cell in OHMs.
•   Voltage readings at key locations from within and outside of the cell.

If you would like to see other parameters posted in the testing phase, please feel free to suggest additional ones to be included.  I’ll do my best to disseminate these as well.
 
Anyone who would like to contribute to this thread but is reluctant for ANY REASON WHATSOEVER can private message me here at this site.  I will keep ALL private messages and their contents in strict confidence.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 07, 2010, 23:16:06 pm
Mina,
 
Here is your third wire....
 
Page 178 of pdf reader in Stans waterfuelcell technical brief
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 07:15:11 am
@Steve:
Yes, I believe you are correct!  If the line drawn from the plate gap area/zone was intended as a description or reference notation, it would have been drawn as a diagonal or slanted straight line, thus it is indeed a conductor path reference.

I noticed that the line has its own slanted reference line drawn from it in reference (for one) to “85” which is the water bath reference number used throughout the brief.

It also gives reference to a negative ground however this can not be a chassis ground.  It can not be the cell ground either (which in this case is an isolated ground) or it would simply be drawn to connect to the cell’s negative inner electrode.  I believe it connects to one side of the alternator’s field winding (primary winding) and possibly to the other side of the “amp inhibiting coil” as well located on this same drawing.

If this line of thinking is correct, then that would mean that the clip would have to be insulated on the side that clips to (makes contact with) the cell’s positive electrode to prevent it from conducting thus giving us a very good possible explanation for the mysterious third wire! 

Very nice find Steve!!!

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 10:13:30 am
Your welcome!  ;)
 
 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 15:57:50 pm
The 0v marking on the primary winding should be marked as ground.

I'm pretty sure the 0v marking on the cell is connected to the water inlet(isolated from the cell's positive and negative plates or tubes).

That connection sets the incoming water to a neutral charge, referenced to the center tap of the resonant charging choke.

This will allow the neg and pos plates/tubes to pull equally on the water molecule since the waveform will be 180 degrees out of phase because of the water being referenced to the center tap.

Page 177 of the tech brief is the same setup using a center tapped transformer instead of an alternator.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 16:51:13 pm
Oh! I see now! What you are referring to in this case is usually called a "Voltage Divider" in classical electrical terms. It's quite commonly found on computer power supplies, although the current ratings are different for each polarity. Take a look at the markings on the power supply and it will most times list the power ratings for each wire.

I had tested this design some years ago and found nothing out of the ordinary or any increase in efficiency. I believe it's just another way of doing it and it was listed to deter working around the patents. No secrets to reveal, no hidden treasures... Just another way to skin the cat. What I do like about this particular design is the fact that his secondaries are bifilar. It's as if the chokes and secondaries are the same. Is there any other inventions or devices in the world that utilize a bifilar secondary? I have never seen one yet except in Stan's drawings.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 18:10:35 pm
Oh! I see now! What you are referring to in this case is usually called a "Voltage Divider" in classical electrical terms. It's quite commonly found on computer power supplies, although the current ratings are different for each polarity. Take a look at the markings on the power supply and it will most times list the power ratings for each wire.
Close.

A voltage divider is a network of resistors. 
In this case it's just a tap off the secondary of a transformer.  Center tap in this case.  To get different voltages, the tap is placed wherever the ratio of windings give the desired outputs.
 
I had tested this design some years ago and found nothing out of the ordinary or any increase in efficiency. I believe it's just another way of doing it and it was listed to deter working around the patents. No secrets to reveal, no hidden treasures... Just another way to skin the cat. What I do like about this particular design is the fact that his secondaries are bifilar. It's as if the chokes and secondaries are the same. Is there any other inventions or devices in the world that utilize a bifilar secondary? I have never seen one yet except in Stan's drawings.

In 24 yrs of work experience with electronics, the only time I have seen a bifilar secondary is on a very small RF toroid.

The most intriguing aspect of Meyer's technology is voltage with no current, and that is the basis for his method.  Otherwise current flows and it's everyday electrolysis.

The only K.I.S.S method that I know of to do this is a parallel LC circuit, and imagine that, it's right there with the bifilar coil. 
There is capacitance between the pair of wires that make up the choke.  That is the major reason for him writing spiral wrapped, to keep the capacitance consistent.

Twisting the wire also raises the capacitance, I've tested it with a pair of 10ft length 36AWG magnet wires.  The capacitance went from 186pf/10ft untwisted(held tightly  together with thread wrapped around both wires), to 272pf/10ft with the wires twisted together at about 5 turns/inch.  Same 2 wires each test.

Anyway, hope this helps and Mena doesn't think this is cluttering up the thread.

Mike
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 18:27:37 pm
Dynodon told me he saw a picture of that stator on a table with the ~18 or so 36 gage wires sticking out of it.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 08, 2010, 22:28:00 pm
...Anyway, hope this helps and Mena doesn't think this is cluttering up the thread.

Mike

@Mike:
No Mike, you are not cluttering up this thread.  I wrote the introductory “ground rules” (for the most part) to scare off people who come into a thread such as this one to say that Meyer was a fake or a fraud and his technology will never work and then proceed to bash everybody posting in the thread with childish name calling. 
 
Your comments are directed towards the underlying secret of the demo cell (and also the theme throughout Stan’s work in general) which is letting the voltage do the work without significant current flow.  This is completely relevant.  It is also what I hope to achieve as well.

Thank you for your input.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 09, 2010, 04:07:48 am
...Anyway, hope this helps and Mena doesn't think this is cluttering up the thread.

Mike

@Mike:
No Mike, you are not cluttering up this thread.  I wrote the introductory “ground rules” (for the most part) to scare off people who come into a thread such as this one to say that Meyer was a fake or a fraud and his technology will never work and then proceed to bash everybody posting in the thread with childish name calling. 
 
Your comments are directed towards the underlying secret of the demo cell (and also the theme throughout Stan’s work in general) which is letting the voltage do the work without significant current flow.  This is completely relevant.  It is also what I hope to achieve as well.

Thank you for your input.

Regards,
mina

Thanks mina

I don't want to post a bunch of B.S.  I'm tired of reading crazy theories that don't make sense.

Mike


Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2010, 16:55:09 pm
Hello everybody,

I just popped in to post a little update.  I purchased two single phase AC motors.  One of these motors really screams at 3450 RPMs :o   With this motor, I should be able to drive an alternator with a one-to-one pulley ratio.  Experimenting with various pulley combinations will allow me to test the cell with RPMs in the high 9000 range on down.  It’s an additional test parameter (the RPMs) I will be disclosing in my experiment results.  Once I determine the best RPMs, I can use my more efficient AC motor with the proper pulley ratio and find out if it can handle the load. 

I believe Stan’s motor was a 1725 RPM capacitor start motor with something in the neighborhood of a one-to-two or one-to-three ratio.  I just want to try higher RPM ranges to see if there is any noticeable increase in performance.

I will be having my tubes TIG welded this weekend and I plan to take some pictures at the welding shop.  I will be posting more pictures some time next week.

Later this week, I plan to post “Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2”. 

Thanks again for ALL the input everyone has been giving.  I really can’t thank everyone enough :)
 
Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 17, 2010, 22:43:34 pm
Good stuff!


The rpm will effect the alternators output frequency only, and since Stan also superimposes another frequency into the input of the alternator, I expect this frequency to be of the prime importance, for turning and matching, while the natural frequency from rpm is of secondary consideration, although they clearly interact with each other.


Another factor is the inductance of the alternator, which depends on the amount of turns, and the size of wire you use to rewind it.
All of these values being match to the cell...

Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2011, 05:27:12 am
The "L" bracket figure verses the figure "7" figure for the bottom of the outer .75" tubes:
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2011, 07:20:08 am
Clip and Wire Present...
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2011, 07:22:47 am
Clip and Wire Missing...
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2011, 07:26:21 am
There were more tubes in the cell!
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2011, 08:12:41 am
I dont see the clip, or is it just me?
Sebos, there are no more tubes. Its just the magnifing effect fooling your eyes, i think.

Steve
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 26, 2011, 08:34:49 am
If there are not more tubes i think the clip might be also an optic effect.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 27, 2011, 16:57:23 pm
All I see is the notch in the tube,no clip or wires
Don
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 28, 2011, 01:58:09 am
@Steve & Dynodon:
 
It is quite possible that I am mistaken but isn’t there a hollow bolt (or post) that protrudes down through the bottom of the cell?  Could this hollow bolt/post have had a double purpose?  Could not a “feedback” wire have been routed through the hollow bolt/post to hide it from plain view?
 
A mystery wire is depicted on page 178 in Stan's waterfuelcell technical brief in which the wire appears to be physically located in between two plates (in the water bath) according to the drawing in question.  It's labeled as a ground wire but not a chassis ground.  It appears to connect to one side of the charging choke and the other side of the alternator field winding.
 
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 28, 2011, 03:24:59 am
The negitive tubes had nuts tack welded to their bottoms.Then there was bolts coming up through the base plate,and all the negitive tubes were bolted to it.There wasn't any holes through any bolt,and there were no signs of any extra wires ever being inside the cell assy.
Everybody is always trying to find things that aren't there.
Don
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 28, 2011, 03:33:13 am
@Don:
 
The mytery wire is in fact in the drawings located in between the plates in the water bath.  Steve was the one who discovered it.  It may not have been in the cell but Stan did draw it into one of his schematics. 
 
It appears to connect to one side of the charging choke, one side of the alternator field winding and of course in between two plates in the water bath.
 
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 28, 2011, 04:11:38 am
That schematic is not the one used for the demo cell.Your mixing up system,just as I have said many times before to others.The schematic your talking about was for a different setup,that was probably never built.There never was more than the one demo tube cell.Stan had three or four different alternator setups,but he only showed the one we're all fimiliar with.
Don
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2011, 01:15:32 am
I think the new zealand video answers this questionable ground wire :)
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2011, 02:28:54 am
I think the new zealand video answers this questionable ground wire :)

@Dave:
 
Which part of the New Zealand video are you referring to?  Part 1, 2, 3 or 4?
 
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2011, 02:53:02 am
sorry i dont know what part it is; i always watch it on tonys site where its all in one peice.
Basicly, he says that he was replacing missining electrons with the ground wire.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2011, 05:54:11 am
I used this method ONLY to determine that my initial estimate of the .75” outer tubes that I posted earlier in my thread (which was 18” in length) was WRONG...
 
 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 12, 2011, 16:27:58 pm
Sorry about saying 18 inches and being wrong. I had read this somewhere else and never thought to look closer to verify. If you bought super long tubes then you can cut them down and have left overs for another cell, later on. I hope it didn't cause you too much trouble.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 13, 2011, 04:29:39 am
@Donaldwfc:
 
I don’t think the lengths of the outer tubes were common knowledge at the time the tube lengths were posted.  18” does seem like a very reasonable estimate given that photography and videography does tend to distort the appearance of objects (even people). 
 
I was temporarily sidetracked with another project which did not pan out thus I’m now free to complete my project here.  Too long is quite alright.  To short is another story.
 
I was mistaken about the “mystery wire” that I thought was placed in between two cell plates/tubes which were not.  My thanks to Dynodon for setting me straight on the feedback wire.  I now know it was never actually used in the cell so I can eliminate it from my plans.
 
That’s what makes this build so much fun for me.  It’s challenging at times and I love challenges. 
 
I thank you, Donaldwfc, for your much valued input.  I hope it continues as I make my way towards the goal line.  Many hands make little work.
 
 
Sincerely,

mina   

 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2011, 01:31:22 am
@Everyone:
I decided to start a separate thread for a detailed parts list in my projects section.  In one of the following digital pictures I’ve uploaded here, I have labeled the parts to correspond with my parts list item numbers.  I just did this to make it easier for anyone deciding to start this build to be able to know what parts were used, where they can be purchased, and roughly what their cost is. 
Item #1 in this first photo will not have the smooth finish on either side of the disc when you purchase it from McMaster Carr.  I had both sides of both discs machined after receiving it. 

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2011, 10:25:01 am
Nice Mina,

I see a proper tubecell in progress here...   ;)

Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 20, 2011, 16:57:23 pm
@Everyone:

Next week, I’ll have the .75” recessed groove in both end caps and I’ll post a picture of the cell with the o-rings in the bottom of the groove with the cell housing tube on top of it for the seal. 

I used the cast nylon discs for end caps (as opposed to the Teflon discs I was originally going to use) due to the dramatic price difference between the cost of cast nylon and virgin Teflon.   Both materials are excellent electrical insulators so I made the more economical choice in selection.   
 
@Steve:

Thanks Steve.  I’m having a lot of fun putting this cell together. 
 
I am looking for a special material that I have been unable to locate.  I’m looking for the “quenching tube” that Meyer shows in one of his diagrams.  If you happen to know where I can purchase some, please point me in the right direction.  I realize that it may not exist on the market because Stan may have been the one who custom engineered it solely for his technology.  If it can not be found, I’ll use conventional hydrogen flashback arrestors instead.
 
 
Regards,
 
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 21, 2011, 07:10:58 am
capillary tubing, you'd have to custom order, expensive, there are some more details (and link) in a topic in my projects section, forget which one though
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 07:07:12 am
@Donaldwfc:
After searching through your projects section, I believe I located the link to the site that sells the “capillary tubing”.  The link was posted in one of your threads by Dynodon. 
 
The following is the link:
 
http://www.paradigmoptics.com/structures/fiberstructures.html
 
I’m going to get some further material and pricing information from the company that Dynodon has provided.  Thanks again, Donaldwfc.  I looked all over for this stuff the other day and I didn’t even have the name right.  I was searching for “quenching tubes” when in reality they are “capillary tubing”.
 
Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 08:02:09 am
@Everyone:
So far, this is my understanding of the Demo Cell construction thus far:

• The .75” tubes and .5” tubes are separated at the top with cross drilled holes filled with plastic doweling.
• The .75” tubes and .5” tubes are separated at the bottom with inverted figure “7” brackets only.  There are no spacers at the bottoms.
• The inverted figure “7” brackets are 304 stainless steel .75” wide, 0.030” thick.
• The negative hub is supported by SS stock (and not a tube) that is tapped on top and bottom and contains an o-ring on the bottom for a seal. 

Now the only thing I was still wondering was what the size of the cross drilled holes at 90 degrees at the tops of the half inch tubes is?  Anyone care to speculate or provide this hole size?
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 10:16:38 am
This would be nice, for the quenching tubes, however you must mind that the quenching tube work cause also he mix the combustible gases with non combustible gases prior to transporting it, this allow you to use bigger holes in the quenching tube while still avoiding spark to come back thru the tube...  The gas must be made safe as natural gas prior to transport it to the engine.


http://www.paradigmoptics.com/structures/fiberstructures.html#fiberlike


very nice steve
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 10:27:44 am
Fabio,

The find is Mina's... :)

I just tried to get the link proper.
As you can see, all links can be copied now. But they dont show up as hyperlink anymore.
This solves the empty posts for now...
Still working on it....


Steve
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 12:48:37 pm
Nice one, thanks man. And thanks mina nice link!


Br
Fabio
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 15:26:26 pm
Mina,
the cross drilled holes were less than .125 inches.
 
sebosfato,
Stan didn't add non combustible gasses to the gasses coming from the resonant cavity.It was added in under the throttlebody.He said you would add non combustible gasses to it for transportation in pipe lines.
Don
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 15:30:22 pm
Yes, I think your right. But the intention was to eliminate flash back right?



Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 22, 2011, 15:39:52 pm
Yes,to eliminate flashback by slowing down the burn speed of the hydrogen,by slowing down the the linking up of the hydrogen and oxygen molecules because of the non combustible gasses getting in between them.
Don
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2011, 03:52:45 am
@Dynodon:
Thank you for the doweling hole size.   Now that I know they are 1/8”, locating the plastic doweling shouldn’t be that hard.  You have really helped out quite a bit.  Thanks again for your input.

@Everyone:
I just picked up my cell caps today and the 6” O.D. x .75” deep grooves came out very clean.  I’ve attached some pictures of the caps and the cell put together. 
 
I cut the all-thread columns a little long to double as legs for the cell to stand on to afford clearance for the electrical posts.  I need to find some rubber caps to put on the bottom of the legs.
 
Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 24, 2011, 05:37:30 am
you better get a solid base on that to prevent tipping!


also from an aesthetic perspective, i think threaded rod looks bad (personal opinion) for a little more cost and effort you could get some solid aluminum rods and have the machinist thread the ends, or drill holes in the ends and tap them so you can use bolts into the aluminum rod, then these will look nicer, with even more effort, they can be sanded and polished to a mirror finish, which doesn't take long with a lathe and a range of sandpaper up to 2000 grit, maybe something to consider some months down the road when you have it working great and want to start showing people, of course :)


personally i went with a large SS rod right through the center of the cell, so i don't have any rods on the outside, Stans looks the nicest with the ends bolted to the acrylic tube, but the 3/8 thick tubes are big money


nice work
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 25, 2011, 01:30:15 am
@Donaldwfc:
You are correct about the solid rod as opposed to the all-thread.  The solid rod with threaded ends look very professional and I will be changing my all-thread out to stainless steel rods later on.  Now that I have the length of the columns established, it will be a cinch to cut the solid rods to the correct length.
 
A base is also another excellent suggestion to improve the cell (and keep it upright) so I’ll be adding one shortly.  I’m thinking now about going with possibly a plastic base about 12” x 12”.
 
@Everyone:
I just bought some more material and when it arrives, I’ll add it to the parts list thread in my projects section. 
 
Another big THANK YOU to everyone who has been contributing to this thread.  I could NOT have gotten this far without you as this has been a continual learning experience for me.   
 
Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2011, 23:46:40 pm
One frame from a video that Stan’s wife shot of the first time Stan successfully ran the dune buggy on water (via the demo cell sitting on the ground behind the vehicle). 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2011, 00:37:16 am
I see the same as you.
Title: Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2011, 03:04:44 am
@Everyone:
I will repost this little disclaimer (as I did back in reply #19)
 
Here are some of the theories I have formed concerning Stanley Meyer’s earlier stages of development.  Keep in mind that these theories may or may not reflect what actually took place.

Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2:
 
Meyer claims to have built his demo cell in his own lab/garage.  After getting the cell to produce phenomenal amounts of hydroxy gas, he connects the cell to his now famous dune buggy and removes the gas tank. 
 
His dune buggy had a carbureted engine and made it easier for him to run (idle) the engine off the demo cell.  The last photo I posted in my previous reply (reply #69) is a frame I extracted from his first video of the dune buggy actually running (idling) on water.  It appears that Stan originally took everything that was on his lab/shop bench and mounted it on the rear of the dune buggy.
 
The cell only produced enough gas to idle the dune buggy engine so he would add additional cells together to make one large one to mount on the back of the vehicle.  He simply moved the alternator, electric AC motor (which drove the alternator), and a larger scale tubular array from the lab to the back of the dune buggy. 
 
He also mounted the variable AC transformer in a larger electrical enclosure and groups of 9 sets of tubes were represented by their own column of toggle switches which were also mounted on the giant electrical enclosure vertically.  There were 5 vertical columns of 9 toggle switches so there were a total of 5 sets of 9 tubes needed (or five demo cells put together) to run the engine at full throttle.  They were all powered by one alternator which was driven by a 120VAC capacitor start motor.
 
(TO BE CONTINUED)
Title: Re: Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2 (CONTINUED)
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 27, 2011, 18:03:30 pm
Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2 (CONTINUED):
 
I updated the reply #71 photo which now indentifies the gauges as well.  Here is a frame extracted from the news coverage video which shows the 120VAC capacitor start motor driving the alternator (just like he did on his lab bench) with a fan belt...
 
(TO BE CONTINUED)
Title: Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2 (CONTINUED):
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 28, 2011, 00:25:24 am
Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2 (CONTINUED):
 
Now many of you have seen some of these pictures before but I wanted to group them all together in this thread for those who haven’t seen them.  Some things I’m presenting are new (like the toggle switch/multiple tube set controller theory) and some things are only new to new arrivals.
 
Here’s a shot of the GIANT cell where Stan combines them all in this huge flanged container...
 
(TO BE CONTINUED)
Title: Re: Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2 (CONTINUED)
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 06:22:31 am
Meyer’s Preliminary Stages Part 2 (CONTINUED):
 
The dune buggy ended up fitted with everything from his lab/shop bench, only scaled up to enable the WFC system to fuel a 4 cylinder internal combustion engine.  This was his former WFC system and not the later “injection” style system that can be seen in the 1992 interview video.
 
Now two parts of the system required 120VAC in order to operate.  These were the single phase capacitor start 120VAC motor and the variable transformer.  To power these items, he would obviously need an onboard AC power supply so Stan also installed such a system called a Redi-line electric generator.  It requires 12VDC input and delivers 120VAC @15 amps output.
 
Some have speculated over the years that Stan could NOT have used an inverter because of the efficiency problems but many believe Stan chose the Redi-line alternative in order to insure smooth sine wave AC as the inverters often tend to put out flat square wave AC in contrast.
 
The redi-line electric generator was mounted at the rear of the vehicle on the passenger side as shown in the snapshot below... 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 10:37:23 am
Hi mina you mean that he had a motor, an alternator and also a generator in the buggy?


I think the combination motor and generator is the easier way to have a controlled frequency source... So you can have a given coil and capacitance and tune to it..





Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 02, 2011, 16:36:15 pm
the rediline generator is a rotary-converter that turns 12VDC from the battery/conventional alternator into 60 Hz AC to run the Constant Speed AC Motor, which drives the Alternator which is also fed with rectified and pulsed AC into the field windings
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 01:25:34 am
Hi mina you mean that he had a motor, an alternator and also a generator in the buggy?


I think the combination motor and generator is the easier way to have a controlled frequency source... So you can have a given coil and capacitance and tune to it..

 @Sebosfato:
Yes, you can see all three components in the previous snapshots I’ve posted recently in this thread.  The Redi-line is also in the snapshot of (Reply #71) the giant control panel.  It’s on the left hand side of this control panel and is partially cut off.

It’s just as Donaldwfc stated in his last posting.  Stan opted for the Redi-line as his preferred way to convert 12VDC into 120VAC.  I’ve seen these Redi-line units hooked up to RVs before and they work beautifully.  They do not engage until they are loaded.  This is built into the unit’s design.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 05:00:58 am
Nice thanks,


I wish i could put my hands on it to try understanding whats happening.


But if this is true. Why the alternator and the other electric motor ?


Or you mean that he used only for the electric pumps...?


Regards
Fabio
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 03, 2011, 07:38:32 am
Nice thanks,


I wish i could put my hands on it to try understanding whats happening.


But if this is true. Why the alternator and the other electric motor ?


Or you mean that he used only for the electric pumps...?


Regards
Fabio

@Sebosfato:
If you look closely at the documentary “It Runs on Water”, you will see the same 120VAC motor driving an alternator which in turn powers the electronics that pulse the cell.  So all Meyer really did was to move the same AC motor and the same alternator (which is driven by a fan belt) onto the back of his dune buggy.  There is no pump.

If you watch the news clip where Meyer drives down the highway in the dune buggy, pay close attention to the very beginning.  The video shows Meyer filling the cell with water.  If a pump were involved, he would be filling a water tank that was separate from the cell and a pump would automatically keep the cell full of water (float switch or level indicator). 

The pressure build up in the cell was the force that delivered the gas (hydroxy) to the carburetor.  No pumps of any kind were used.  He may have added pumps after the video but you can see they weren’t there at the time the news crew shot the piece.

Regards,
mina
 
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 04, 2011, 06:42:52 am
@Everyone:
The attached photos are the parts that have recently arrived for this project.  Now the 24”x24”x16” hinged enclosure is definitely NOT necessary for the demo cell build but I am planning ahead so I can upscale without having to relocate all of the electronics later on.

The cast nylon 6 will become the top outer tube supports.  The 12”x12”x0.030” 304 S.S. sheet will be cut into .75” strips by a sheer and will be formed into the inverted figure “7” brackets.  The 12”x12”x0.120” 304 S.S. sheet will become the negative tubes’ hub after being cut into a circular plate.

Regards,
mina   
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2011, 01:46:11 am
@Everyone:
The attached print is my interpretation of the inverted figure “7” brackets.  They are made of .75” wide strips of 304 S.S. that are 0.030” thick.  The print is only a side view depiction and may not be exact duplicates of the originals but I did the best I could with the information I had at the time...

Regards,
Mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2011, 07:38:05 am
@Everyone:
In an earlier post, I stated that the spacer doweling holes were 0.125”, however, that is NOT what Dynodon stated.  He said that they were < 0.125”.  This was a misunderstanding on my part and so I’m stating now that the exact size of the holes and doweling are unknown.

If I had to guess, a strong possibility would be 3/32” or 0.09375”.  Since I don’t like to guess, I’ll check for the next common size that is < 0.125” in my material catalog.  This may yield a more accurate result as I can not imagine Stan machining or lathing small plastic doweling that small.  I believe he would have used a standard and readily available size doweling.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 08, 2011, 08:17:19 am
you could put your motor and alternator inside that big metal case too, then section it off with acrylic for safety, thats what i'd do with it
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2011, 01:37:54 am
@Donaldwfc:
I might just mount the motor in there if I have room left.  Besides the electronics going into the box, I first must mount a PLC to the backplate using din rail inside.  I want the ability to change my control parameters on-the-fly by simply editing a PLC program I’m writing for the WFC system.  I am going to fully automate the system so I won’t need a guy standing up facing backwards (like Stan had to do) making adjustments as I drive down the road.  I want to be able to run everything hands free without a second party always having to come along for the ride.

The PLC will be able to safely and more accurately automate the entire WFC.  Rather than having to make massive wiring changes, I can simply modify the PLC’s program to change control functions.

@Everybody:
I searched through my material catalog and could not find a smaller diameter plastic/teflon doweling than 0.125” so I will have to go with this size.  The virgin teflon seems ideal for this application as it is a very low friction material in comparison with alternative insulating plastics/materials.

This is the doweling/rod for the plate spacers at the top of each tube set.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2011, 01:59:30 am
If your looking for some smaller plastic for your seperators,try looking at weed eater string,that comes in small diameter sizes.
Don
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2011, 02:12:40 am
@Dynodon:
The weed eater string is easy to find and I'll give it a try.  An excellent suggestion! 
 
Thanks,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 05:54:46 am
@Everyone:
I attached a photo of one of the motors I purchased a while back.  It’s a dual capacitor start 120VAC, 3450 RPM motor.
 
I’m using this motor for experimentation only and it will be replaced by a more efficient 1725 RPM motor when I’m finished trying out various RPM ranges first.
 
These are the known specifications concerning the alternator driven by the motor with pulleys and fan belt:
 
•   The motor is a 120VAC, 1725 RPM, capacitor start type.
•   The pulley ratio is 2:1 thus the alternator RPM is 3450.
•   The alternator is a Wye wound and external voltage regulator type.
 
What I don’t know is the make and model of the alternator Meyer used.  Does anyone know which one he used?
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 21:10:20 pm
The alternator was an older style ford from a van or ambulance.It like a 60-70 amp.Very common.
Don
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2011, 22:49:00 pm
@Dynodon:
I’m going to the auto parts store to get one.  I’ll post a photo of it before the end of the week. 

@Everyone:
The variable transformer should be here by the weekend.  I ordered it online because the local electronics store didn’t carry them. 

The inverted figure “7” brackets are being fabricated and should be ready to pick up next week.  Slowly but surely things are coming together.  I thank everyone who caught my mistakes and offered corrections for this build. 

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 03:45:50 am
Hello mina, good luck with the alternator, ...


I have to tell you two things one is that an alternator driven by a fixed speed motor can be a very nice stable source of frequency.


The other thing is that if you can't change the frequency to find the resonance you will need to change the resonance to find the frequency. So you will need to have a series variable inductor.


I made some drawings here for the alternator and would say is pretty much like what i think about the vic.


in the drawings i made each of the phases of the alternator resonate with a pair of coils and a cell to form the unipolar pulses. I though about this cause if you think well, if electrical resonance is to be reached the load in the motor will be minimal.


Good luck

Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2011, 08:11:38 am
@Sebosfato:
I agree with you about the variable inductor.  I also agree with you about minimal loading of the motor as when resonance is reached, peak efficiency should follow.

To understand why I am going to be using a broad range of RPMs to drive the alternator, you’ll have to view a small segment of a video interview with Bob Boyce where he reached an astounding anomaly that involved an alternator he was working with. 

For those who want to understand fully, you can view the following video from 5:20 thru 7:30 where Bob explains the anomaly.  There’s too much to post everything here so the video will suffice.

The video is located here:
world wide web dot youtube.com/watch?v=rxko4jjVMyQ&feature=mfu in order&list=UL

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2011, 03:41:32 am
@Everyone:
Here’s just another update of the project.  I’ve attached two photos of my lab bench where everything is going to be mounted for extensive testing and data intake. 

I chose a 12VDC PLC so that adapting it to an automobile’s electrical system will not be a problem.  I also wrote the PLC program to automatically start running as soon as it is powered up off of the ignition system of a car or an auxiliary switch for testing purposes in the lab.  It is fully equipped with an EPROM thus eliminating the need for a hard drive to maintain the program.  The program will remain even when all power input is removed from the PLC ;)

The PLC is now programmed to control the entire demo cell configuration with plenty of extra room later on for ICE controls for automating fuel delivery, maintaining optimal reactor water level, etc.

As you can see from the photos, I have addressed the cell platform issues by using the extra long columns to mount the cell solidly to the bench for stability.

I left an Ionizationx.com plug in the remote PLC display module for Steve.  If you look closely at the close-up of the control panel, you’ll see it.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2011, 04:35:46 am
good work, what are the bolts down the center of the metal case?
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2011, 13:34:03 pm
@Everyone:
Here’s just another update of the project.  I’ve attached two photos of my lab bench where everything is going to be mounted for extensive testing and data intake. 

I chose a 12VDC PLC so that adapting it to an automobile’s electrical system will not be a problem.  I also wrote the PLC program to automatically start running as soon as it is powered up off of the ignition system of a car or an auxiliary switch for testing purposes in the lab.  It is fully equipped with an EPROM thus eliminating the need for a hard drive to maintain the program.  The program will remain even when all power input is removed from the PLC ;)

The PLC is now programmed to control the entire demo cell configuration with plenty of extra room later on for ICE controls for automating fuel delivery, maintaining optimal reactor water level, etc.

As you can see from the photos, I have addressed the cell platform issues by using the extra long columns to mount the cell solidly to the bench for stability.

I left an Ionizationx.com plug in the remote PLC display module for Steve.  If you look closely at the close-up of the control panel, you’ll see it.

Regards,
mina



Hahahahahahaha.......
Mina, you are the best!

Steve
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 25, 2011, 04:27:10 am
@Donaldwfc:
Thanks Don.  The center items are toggle switches but since I took the picture almost dead on, they appear to be bolts.  I’ve attached a semi-profile shot of the enclosure so you could see them better. 

@Steve:
I can see that your site is continuing to grow rapidly.  I’ve never seen so many users online at the same time :o   Keep up the great work.

Regards,
mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 21, 2011, 05:59:40 am
@Everyone:
I just popped in for another quick update.  My inverted figure “7” brackets are completed and ready to be attached to my outer plate walls. 

Also, I purchased a brand new capacitor start motor (1725 RPM) for my initial testing.  I want to do all my initial testing with as little power input as possible as even the motor’s amps will be added to the .5 amp alternator field winding load.  Now I realize that Stan always touted the .5 amp figure but he never factored in the draw of the alternator drive motor.

I’ve attached some pictures of my most recent progress below.

On a side note, I would just like to urge anyone who hasn’t purchased the new Meyer estate photos and information from Dynodon to do so now.  I was NOT disappointed with this treasure trove of never before released Meyer photographs and other miscellaneous additions.  I’m still studying this new cache of information which is filled with hidden gems in the form of details never shown before.

Regards,
mina   
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 03, 2012, 08:08:49 am
Image
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2013, 03:57:51 am
@Everyone:
Today I have released my completed demo cell photos in honor of Stanley Meyer Day at the following link:  http://www.energy-shiftingparadigms.com/index.php/topic,2308.new.html

Happy National Stanley Meyer Day!

mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2013, 18:21:16 pm
They are wonderful photgraphic images of your work and a fitting tribute to Stan on this special day

regards
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 25, 2013, 18:38:40 pm
Thank you Jim.  I was very glad to pay tribute to the memory of Stanley Allen Meyer.  Stan risked his life to better his country and the world.  He was stopped by his own government and denied any credibility in the ensuing cover-up.  They not only assassinated him physically, but they also assassinated his character as well.  We must all risk what Stanley risked in order to finally make obsolete the corrupt people in power.  If they can murder JFK, Michael Hastings and Stan Meyer without any justice served, then nobody has a "real" life in reality.  For without freedom, you are dead already even though you are still breathing.  What do you really have to lose?


mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 15, 2013, 04:09:19 am
I agree 10,000%
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 10, 2015, 06:30:03 am
I just wanted to say that I have decided to continue my project here.  Today I made some adjustments to my cell.  I have attached a picture of the cell disassembled for adjustment purposes.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 10, 2015, 06:34:29 am
Just a close up shot...
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 10, 2015, 09:51:57 am
Hey mina

seems just like mine... all the inner tubes connected together... i wish i could split my appart to get independent inner tubes...  and covering up all with epoxy makes pretty much a resonant cavity

in my point of view somehow i think the inner plates of stan wasnt connected to each other directly
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 10, 2015, 14:33:45 pm
Hey mina

seems just like mine... all the inner tubes connected together... i wish i could split my appart to get independent inner tubes...  and covering up all with epoxy makes pretty much a resonant cavity

in my point of view somehow i think the inner plates of stan wasnt connected to each other directly
Hi Sebosfato,

I built this cell working with Stan's patent drawing.  Stan did not give all the details in that drawing, so I have had to take educated guesses on some of the features.  It may be that the inner tubes were not connected, but it was the only way I could figure the circuit could be completed.  Without a connection, the negetive electrodes have no way of conducting.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2015, 10:04:50 am
I just wanted to say that I have decided to continue my project here.  Today I made some adjustments to my cell.  I have attached a picture of the cell disassembled for adjustment purposes.

Welcome back!

You have build a beautifull cell !
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2015, 15:18:57 pm
Thank you Steve.  It's good to be back.  I'm excited about the prospects of having a breakthrough possibly in 2016.  I'll be trying all sorts of new approaches until Stan's secrets begin to emerge.  I love a challenge and this one (the fuel cell) has been just that. 

Your wonderful site is where it all started for me so it only seems fitting to showcase it here where I started. 

Happy Holidays to all,

Joe
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2015, 16:32:15 pm
Here's just a shot of the variable transformer and misc. electrical components mounted to the door...
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2015, 01:51:35 am
Just popped in to post an update.  I am running a leak down test after fixing a minor pressure leak.  It is holding pressure great now!  I put 13.5 PSI in 20 minutes ago and no more leak...
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2015, 04:05:28 am
beaultifull
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 06:19:33 am
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.youtube.com/watch%3Fv%3DAzvvmhlBvac&ved=0ahUKEwjM0uKws4_KAhULzGMKHVZTB8sQuAIIHDAA&usg=AFQjCNEplopNu1gjI_5sWev-eoRX3RU0ug&sig2=cnfv8opajBG68pNA2L-DlA

Stan Meyer is solved.  It took me over 4 years but today I had a major breakthrough.  The link above is where I posted the video. 

mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 08:41:38 am
sorry mina how is it solved?

dont see much gas...
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 08:49:10 am
sorry mina how is it solved?

dont see much gas...
Look at the Meyer video.  It is just as much as Meyer got.  Keep in mind this is at 2amps, 6 volts and the water temp. Does not change.  I have a way larger cavity so the gas it takes slightly longer to build pressure but the gas flow is there.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 10:00:37 am
Good job Mina as these are the small steps that lead to success. Most people sit back and do nothing and others do something but get it all wrong as they haven't the smarts to do thing close to what Meyer actually did. These people can't do the math no matter how simple it seems at times. Lets take Meyer's VIC the first choke reads 76 ohms and they turn around and only wind their VICs with 33 turns of wire for the chokes when the math says Meyer used 736.43 feet of wire for the first choke. These same people run around making claims that make Meyer out to be a lair.

Just keep learning and tweaking the technology to improve upon your results as that is what it takes to get this technology solved. Now that you have it all set up I can tell you a bit of what I learned about it. The RPMs are used for finding resonance with that set up so if you haven't already get a strong PWM to drive the motor so you can change speeds and observe the results of the waveform at different drive speeds on an oscilloscope. If it has a gating it is used for finding standing waves I kinda forget as it's been a long time since I have use that setup so I'm a little rusty on it, okay?

With this set up you can start to learn more about the tech first hand just hone your observation skills and take notes.

Have fun!
TGS

P.S. They gave me a lot of flack talk about this video but only one person has surpassed my results with the 8xa circuit as the gas production is just over 1 LPM with a cell that only has three tubes in it. I learned a lot from this and was able to observe some really interesting results as the bubbles are charged and will dart off in different directions and not just go straight up to the surface as expected they would do.
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 13:38:06 pm
TGS have you ever look at the stan documents where he says there is 24 turns or 33?

he yes have chokes where there is less turns in the state you can see it

why

well i dont know exactly yet why but i have found a reson for it... so we people thinking and working and not just only copying have a hard time designing and thinking of thigs that will have a understandable result...

after all this years, getting in the university and learning and training how to think, why should i get blind and copy?

i rather prefere to develop my theories and test them... one will work one day maybe.. theres not so many possibilities of connection...

i wish stanley meyer was here to defend himself he would have laught over what we wrote about him and sure not feel like a lier...

when i suspect someone does not tell the true i´m not calling him a lier i just say that he has his reason to say that in that way and it may be mislead you ..  this is called neuro programed language its very used to let you be convinced of something without even understand it ,.. like all this non scientists believe blindly in stan... its a feeling caused by the sequence of words he chose to explain this... and by the greed of the men

so lier is who say to have something and than dont have,  this could be: a theory, a working cell, the only right theory...

who say that know something and dont knows for me is a basic lier

who say is doing a hard job and keep posting all day on internet is a gigantic lier

i could be a part of this

i know i would be a lier if i tell you that i´m physicist and my theory is correct and you should tried because i´m sure of it... right?

yes


etc...

until someone show a cell working and explain it for real there is no right way...

for me only thing that is important is to respect mina results and hope it has some explanation why it suposed to be working... ok?

and all.. .




Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 14:00:17 pm
Beautiful replication  with attention to details. A truly professional construction!!

Great job !!!
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 14:22:45 pm
Yes, Mina.
Beautifull setup.
5V and 2 amps on the rotor is exactly what Meyer did.
How much power is your electro motor pulling?
If you add that plus the 10watts on the rotor vs gas output, then we know how good yr setup is in efficiency.

cheers!
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 04, 2016, 18:50:07 pm
@Everyone:
Thank you for the kind words and support.  I never had these kind of results in the past.  The cell suddenly started emitting this volume of hydrogen when I hit resonance with my new setup.  If you'll notice, the cell takes about 9 to 10 seconds to find resonance and then lock onto it.  Then it takes off like a rocket ship. 

Meyer was correct!  I know now that he did not lie to the world.  He really did have the goods!  He was for real.  No doubt about that.  He was a genius, flat out.

My suspicions became apparent after trying many different setups with poor results.  I think some of his patents have been scrubbed or simply secretly redacted because there is a lot missing in the patents.

My work has only yet begun.  I have to take MANY different measurements, run lengthy trials.  I even need to do some more tuning to get maximum results.  This is far from over, but now I understand what he and Puharich were doing and why it is so unique to standard electrolysis. 

My O-scope can't handle this wave form correctly so I need a modern one.  It will help me with tuning as well. 

My cell is now completely covered in a brownish tan color and is no longer very pretty.  I have to clean it up a bit. 


Thanks again to everyone,

mina

P.S.  @Steve: I'll get those measurements on the motor posted at the end of my running trials.


Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2016, 15:31:07 pm
@Steve:
I have some results for you.  The alternator drive motor under load draws 7.2 amps. 
116.5 volts x 7.2 amps + 10 watts = 848.8 watts total.

I posted a video of this run at:

and:

Enjoy,

mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 07, 2016, 16:45:53 pm
Thanks Mina,

Almost all data is now known, except the amount of hho gas per minute....
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2016, 15:27:59 pm
Thanks Mina,

Almost all data is now known, except the amount of hho gas per minute....
@Steve:
What flow meter would you recommend for taking LPM gas production measurements?  Maybe someone here has one for sale?  I know I could always use a 1 liter plastic bottle in a 5 gallon bucket method (displacement system), but would that be a valid and accurate enough way to take production readings?

Stan was completely honest about the temperature not rising in the water bath after long running intervals.  I checked the water bath after my own testing with a "K" type thermocouple attached to a digital meter and the temperature was 72 degrees F.  It's hard for me to fathom, as with conventional methods the water temperature would have been MUCH higher (say, maybe 100-120 degrees for short runs and 120-212 degrees F for long runs).

@Everyone:
My trial periods will be very lengthy, as I am still tuning the cell and need to check performance before releasing all the data.  The data is (keeps) changing because of these changes and I have already made significant improvements in gas production as a result.  I have been playing with the frequencies in the pulse train, the durations of the pulses and pulse sequences.  This makes a BIG difference in test data results all the way around.  I have found more than one "sweet" spots too. 

Up until now, I have not introduced ANY electrolyte to the water bath.  I may try this (maybe KOH) after I find my most efficient settings and tuning of the cell (and record them, of course, so I can return to them).  All the videos I am making are straight tap water out of the faucet of my house.  Obviously, tap water already has some conductive elements/chemicals in it.

The 1/4" clear plastic tubing coming out of the bottom of my cell is how I fill and empty my cell.  I can't just tip it over because that is a lot of work, as it is bolted down to my test bench.  Later on, I intend to use this drain hole to circulate the water and filter out all the solids that are left behind after gas production.  I will also use this same drain/fill tubing with a "T" in it that will go to a water level indicator, which will automatically add new water as needed. 

@TGS:
Thank you for the constructive input.  Adding a VFD to the alternator drive motor will allow me to adjust overall input frequency on the fly.  WHAT AN EXCELLENT SUGGESTION!  I will be purchasing one soon!   Thank you  ;D


Cheers,

mina
Title: Re: Starting at the Genesis of Stanley Meyer's Work - The Demo Cell
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 08, 2016, 17:52:18 pm
Your welcome Mina,

I've been working on this technology for a while now and understand the science behind the technology. Do not put any type of acid, base, or salt in the water as this technology needs a high resistance in order to work correctly. Those that would tell you to do so have no understanding of just how this technology actually works so it's best to just ignore them. The formula that we are dealing with is the voltage V in volts (V) is equal to the square root of the power P in watts (W) times the resistance R in ohms (Ω). Thus getting the resistance up is why it needs to be run at resonance as the atoms that make up the water molecules are the targets we are wanting to ionize.