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Stanley Meyer => Stan Meyers system 1 => Topic started by: outlawstc on May 19, 2010, 05:59:10 am

Title: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2010, 05:59:10 am
i think this is a good subject to bring up at the moment..   stan claimed to tune into the dielectric properties of water right?  and he says that the dielectric properties are 78.54.. i have searched here and there for deeper meanings in the past but everytime i got caught up in topics like permability.. this time i had a spark in the noggin.. i have been meaning to look up the dielectric properties of ambient air and kept forgetting.. this time i did and i came across this

"Tipler, Paul A. College Physics. Worth, 1987: 467.     "This phenomenon, which is called dielectric breakdown, occurs in air at an electric field strength of about Emax = 3 × 10to the 6th power V/m."     

this calculates to 3 × (10 to the 6th) (V / m) = 3 000 000 m kg s-3 A-1
in SI terms..   

stan says natural waters dielectric properties 78.54  at around 25 degrees C.

in a video stan says that dielectric value is based off ambient airs dielectric and that natural water is 78.54 times more passive then air..

ok so if its 78.5 times more passive that means that it is 3,000,000 / 78.54 =  38197.09702

now thats for a meter of distance.. break it down to mm its 3kv so 78.54 times more conductive then  air we have the equation 3000kv/ 78.54= around 38.2 volts..

so you would think your first pulse should be based off that.. how quick can you ring 38 volts.. in the capacitor and from there you should base you freq?  i think if we focus hard on this subject we will understand the goal of the circuit better..

feel free to speak your minds on this topic
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2010, 06:38:47 am
(http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j243/outlawstc/designparameters.jpg)


this is out of " Process and apparatus for the production of a fuel gas....." patent
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2010, 17:27:10 pm
Sure we join in M. Law.

A dielectric is an electrical insulator that may be polarized by the action of an applied electric field. When a dielectric is placed in an electric field, electric charges do not flow through the material, as in a conductor, but only slightly shift from their average equilibrium positions causing dielectric polarization.

The whole issue with Stan Meyer is that water is a conductor.......
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2010, 18:23:21 pm
yes water is a conductor only due to the elements of the contaminate witthin.. other then that it still has its own resistive quality that still remains in the equation of the whole..

stan says that natural waters dielectric value is 78.54 @25 degrees C  since he says natural he is speaking of water with a ppm's of contaminates.. which i think he based off rain water..

so if natural waters dielectric break down is around 38 volts  i see traveling standing waves in the tubes of around 38.. i think you have to have a circuit that can hit 38 volts almost instantanious,, then you create a traveling standing wave of 38 volts.. its traveling standing waves of didlectric break down  its not breaking down in the parallel  capacitance ..  it is traveling up the parellel in wave format just like the flat plate demo cell shows.. 

now if its 38 volts then does that mean you split it to balance out for the negative and positive potentials? if so the you would have +19 and -19 totaling 38 volts to start the reaction of resonanting water into higher states.
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 19, 2010, 22:16:08 pm
Mr. Outlaw,

Can you specify for me please what you mean with dielectric break down of watermolecules? What happens accoording to your theory in the water?

Steve
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 20, 2010, 02:14:43 am
i see it as there is a point of chain reaction like lightning in a cloud.. sure a constant 12 volt source can cross water making one assume that 38 volts is not true as a dielectyric barrier for water.. but that electric field is of low voltage range and will try to covey a distributed capacitance within the whole tube.. i think when potential is delivered in this fashion theres amps because the parallel surface have a lower break down rate... when voltage is applied in a 50 percent duty aka frequency.. you are sending wave sets to the tube and it is not a constan potental being distributed.. this process is based offl based of a high ring type circuit sending a wave format into the capactor rather then pure dc.. that is not a wave guide.. in order for a wave to be seen by water of amplitude yoiu have to be able to send bursts of potential becausde that makes the traveling wave up the tube present to tg water as a electric field..  stans tube has wave sets of 38 volts total for a 1 mm gap to  start the reaction of resonance..  imagine a circuit that hits 38 volts  on 1mm gap tubes in ms range and is on 50 percent wave cycle

alowing for return to 0 ground state before it releses the catlized event that could occur which would be the breackover voltage where you hydrogen ions falls back toward the oxygen as if the neg oxy was  the earth ground and the separated h is the cloud that needs to release energy.. that event would be the break over of the potentials of the 38 volts and it turns in to a dampening effect causing amps to be created in the process as well as heat..

an i dont mean that in all cases its 38volts.. just for a 1mm gap so as gap increases and decreases that will change for example 2mm gap is 76v  3 is 114..  this concours with stans ideas of water being resistive as gap increases. and decreases..

 since it is 38 volts for 1mm you are trying to tune into just right under that barly avoiding the cataclysmic event of break over
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 20, 2010, 22:59:27 pm
ok so this is what i see now.. his patent for the process for producing fuel gas.. the one which shows the electron extraction circuit hooked to the circuit is where the copied writing came from..

notice how it says incremental levels of electrical and wave energy required to produce resonance in each set up.. what is everyones take on this? frequency or amplitude or both being variables of adjustment for tuning in... im gonna be reading more on stans eqautions today and see if i catch any perspective i have missed
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 20, 2010, 23:15:08 pm
Well, in Stans patent, which Donald placed here, today, he doesnt talk about the EEC.
Just simple using voltage pulses from 650V till 2000V on a 3 inch tubeset.
The idea of getting HV pulses across a tube in water can only be done if you use very very tiny small pulses. You must stop pulsing as soon as current starts running.
Amps follow volts in a conductor with a 90 degree delay.
So, just use a duty that is around 25%?

Well, if it was all that simple. ;)

Steve
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 21, 2010, 01:11:39 am
EEC was not part of that patent because it's in the other patents.
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 21, 2010, 12:19:47 pm
Using 38.2 volts on a 1mm gap? Why did Stan talk about Amplitude.
"Higher Amplitude (voltage) has no effect on the resonance action, only faster water splitting?"

When natural water (contaminations) is used at a x temperature it has a dielectric value (can be calculated). So using this water as a dielectric between tubes it has effect on WFC capacitance.

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 21, 2010, 18:23:02 pm
waters has 8 electrons in oxys  L orbit when it is water..   L orbit has a capacity of 8 electrons.. it dont want anymore electron nor does it want to exchange electrons.. which means it opposes the movement of electrons 78.54 greater then air

i think this contradicts my last perspective and need to look into it more.. this statement above is true from stans point of view since most of it is right from his mouth out of the switzerland video

this is the key to understanding i think is how this information complys to the design and pulsing parameters

Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 21, 2010, 21:34:51 pm
page 60 of water tech breif

as step-charging voltage-wave (65) increases in voltage amplitude from several millivolts to several hundred volts during each pulse train (65a xxx 65n) which, in application, causes water molecule (210) of Figure (3-27) charged atoms (76/77) to elongate (increasing distance between unlike atoms 76/77) to the point where covalent hydrogen electrons (84) of Figure (3-27) breaks away from electrostatic force (qq'). Repetitive duplication of voltage pulse (65a xxx 65n) continues to separate or split apart other water molecules(85a xxx 85n) which, in turns, forms hydrogen (86) and oxygen (87) gas-mixture (88) of Figure (3-24).Dissociation of water molecule (85) by way of voltage stimulation (65) is herein called "The ElectricalPolarization Process", as illustrated in (160) of Figure (3-26).
Resonant Action

it says it increases from millivolts to hundreds of volts during each pulse train.. ...

also keep in mind that stans set up was not confined to a specific dielectric value of water.. it was variable and depends on a variable/ or variables to be met to incline the charging effect where electrons are not circulating like current

page 15 of the water tech breif

Attenuating and adjusting the "pulse-voltage-amplitude" with respect to the "pulse voltage
frequency", now, produces hydrogen gas on demand while restricting amp flow.
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 22, 2010, 00:34:27 am
ok now we are on the path of enlightenment... read this


In physics, the term dielectric strength has the following meanings:
Of an insulating material, the maximum electric field strength that it can withstand intrinsically without breaking down, i.e., without experiencing failure of its insulating properties.

# the maximum electric stress the dielectric material can withstand without breakdown

The theoretical dielectric strength of a material is an intrinsic property of the bulk material and is dependent on the configuration of the material or the electrodes with which the field is applied. At breakdown, the electric field frees bound electrons. If the applied electric field is sufficiently high, free electrons may become accelerated to velocities that can liberate additional electrons during collisions with neutral atoms or molecules in a process called avalanche breakdown. Breakdown occurs quite abruptly (typically in nanoseconds)., resulting in the formation of an electrically conductive path and a disruptive discharge through the material. For solid materials, a breakdown event severely degrades, or even destroys, its insulating capability

Factors affecting dielectric strength

    * it increases with the increase in thickness of the specimen. (Directly proportional)
    * it decreases with the increase in operating temperature. (Inversely proportional)
    * it decreases with the increase in frequency. (Inversely proportional)
    * it decreases with the increase in humidity. (Inversely proportional)


the dielectric strength of air is 3 mv/m

so if thats tru then natural water is 78.54 more resistive so 3x78.54  = 235.62 millivolts...


resources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dielectric_strength
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 23, 2010, 00:22:56 am
the number that is 38 volts is for break down of a capacitance i beleave.. its where  you have a failure in the insulator allowing for current of elctron to pass though the medium like a lightning strike..
two opposite potentials dicharging... which air has 3kv a mm.. thats where i got the 38 based off the 78.54

the dielectric strength i think is for deflection of electrons of a material not a discharge..... so what if stan didnt focus on deflecting them with exsessive force he simpley added little bits of energy keeping up with the max it can handel allowing you to work out of equalibruim sequentialy rather then brute potential from the get go.. when stan say attenuating voltage what does he mean?
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 23, 2010, 01:40:22 am
Voltage attenuation is nothing more than turning a dial. Wiki says..."In electrical engineering and telecommunications, attenuation affects the propagation of waves and signals in electrical circuits, in optical fibers, as well as in air (radio waves)." A variable voltage can be attenuated.
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 13:27:48 pm
waters has 8 electrons in oxys  L orbit when it is water..   L orbit has a capacity of 8 electrons.. it dont want anymore electron nor does it want to exchange electrons.. which means it opposes the movement of electrons 78.54 greater then air

this is what we are tuning into when stans speaks of dielectric properties...

so my question is when amp are present in the circuit are the electrons creating there own holes accross the gap or are the electrons forcing other electrons out of there hole to take there place?

either or approah seems like the invasive manner which seems like it would be the wrong idea..

in stans work it says each pulse train goes from millivolts into hundreds of vole.. there is only 1 spot in stans whole water fuel tech brief were he mentions that..

so what do i think is happening?

i think that stan is hitting water with pulses that do not allow for deflection right of hand for each pulse train.. . when i say deflect i mean liberate a electron from its whole just to replace with another.... instead you try to add energy to it little by little just ringing that thresh hold.. this mean you will not be contribution to a current within the circuit.. each step pulse is elongating little by little in time by adding energy slowly you are giving a chance for all the waters to get on the same oscillation of elongation...  once thats met i think its considered polarized...
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 14:34:05 pm
Not sure what you mean with creating holes.
IF you use a charge (current), then you talk about electrolysis.
In Stans case, as far as i have understand it, he talks about voltage fields and not about current or charges.
So NO electrons travel towards the wfc.
Because there is no charge traveling thru the water, there will be no alligment of molecule, and so you keep the basic water situation.
Molecule clusters of watermolecules.
Hold together by covalent bondings of the H atoms with O atoms.

Lots of questions.....
No answers yet.

Steve
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 15:19:06 pm
Quote
I have a good news

I learned the other day that atoms have holes that can be filled with electrons every atom have a different configuration.
Oxygen have 2 holes.

When oxygen burn together with h2 the output tend to be h2o because each H fill one of the holes.
If we could charge this oxygen negatively, we would fill this holes. If we was to burn this oxygen with the h2  than water molecule would not reform again. Meyer said that he was avoiding the water to recombine.

this is a quote from seb off of your 102 dry cell thread.. which i been meaning to say very nice steve!


the alignment of water is possible i think when going from very low volts progressivly to higher volt..

think about it this way. when a signal is produced into the tubes... their electric field lets say is 250mv  that little exterior field will deflect what ever electrons that are close enough to be effected.. so lets say that little pulsed field was strong enough to effect the first layer of atoms/ molecules in contact with each tube.. if you impose the slightest difference  without destablizing the water completely which i mean the plucking of the electron right off hand.. even though you didnt pluck any you made them electrons time share rate change by the slightest.. by that i mean the electrons were foced to over shoot there casual orbit.. so if the first layer was able to do that then that means its own personal electrons are intruding  on the neighboring layer..  so all in all its a traveling wave of orbital displament occuring that is progressivley being achieved and cannot just be forced.   

the unipolar pulses allow for this to occur because it creates the step charging effect.. 250mv, 500mv, 1v, 2v, 4v, 8v, 16v , 32v, 64v, 128v, 256v, 512v,  1024v,  2048v,  4096v,  8192v, 16384, 32768v gate for 18 steps to continue again..
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 16:37:20 pm
What Sebos tried to say, is that the outer orbit of a single oxygen atom has 6 electrons in orbit and has room for 8.
As long as the oxygen atom has 6 electrons , it will always look/hunt for 2 extra electron, because with 8 electrons it will have a stable state.
See picture.

Steve
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 18:28:05 pm
i understand that steve.. so lets say we have distilled water in a fuel cell... the two holes  are filled correct since we do have water and not gas..   this means atomicaly the only way for electrons to get through the water is how?

these words in quote are stans words from his own mouth on one of his videos

"waters has 8 electrons in oxygens  L orbit when it is water..   L orbit has a capacity of 8 electrons.. it dont want anymore electron nor does it want to exchange electrons.. which means it opposes the movement of electrons 78.54 greater then air"

when stan says "movement of electron" what does he mean? does he mean the force of moving an electron out of orbit L?... 
"nor does it want to exchange" is another key term defining the resistance hes tuning to..
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 19:09:29 pm
Hello guys,

I discovered another mean for resonance... in quantum physics the electrons that bounds the molecules together move from molecule to other molecule all the time and this is also called resonance. Example you have a aromatic Hydrocarbon molecule witch is closed and witch have 3 double bounds and 3 single bounds, the electrons (cloud) in the bounds are known to change position inside the molecule all the time.

I was guessing today if stan was not meaning by resonance only the self ionization of water induced by voltage...


Hi outlawstc

He meant the resistance of the movement of the ion. As water have 10 electrons and all them are bounded there is no free electron to move.

the 78,54 is the dielectric constant, witch dictates the rate of electrons or coulombs of charge it need to hold to build up 1 volt.

The water molecule have 10 electrons and this is the reason why its so polar. As the oxygen aways want electrons this electrons get closer to him actually in its orbit and it leave the hydrogen as tips glued on him.

By holes i wanted to mean that when you have oxygen gas and you ionize it negatively you fill one of this two holes, lets say it start having 9 electrons instead of 8, thus every oxygen would want to link up with one hydrogen. Otherwise what i was trying to say also was that if you could instead ionize it positively lets say taking from it 1 electron making it have 7 instead of 8 electrons, it would like to link with 3 hydrogens, and this would lead to not reform water entirely as you see below.

Example (the extra oxygen come from atmosphere):
If you take 2 moles of hydrogen and 1 mole of oxygen you have 1 mole of H20    Reforming water normally 18g per mole
If you take 2 moles of hydrogen and 2 moles of oxygen you have 2 moles of OH-  Reforming more water than H2 would normally happen 34g per mole of water
If  you take 3 moles of hydrogen and 1 mole of oxygen you have 1 mole of H3O+ Reforming less water than H2 would normally happen... 19g per mole of water
Thus i guessed that what meyer intended by re energize the water was actually to allow the water to cool down and by action of the sun and the difference of the charges to bound together and rain again.

More things i learned:

Oxygen love electrons.
Electrons or charge can't stay inside a conductor (tube) always outside. (i was thinking about how the delrin in the outside of the tube could influence in this) didn't concluded nothing yet.
Neutrons exist inside the atoms to keep the protons from "touching"each other. And neutrons can be converted into 1 proton and 1 electron.
Water have a certain +- 5% of deuterium witch is hydrogen with 1 neutron inside.

Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 20:28:41 pm
i understand that steve.. so lets say we have distilled water in a fuel cell... the two holes  are filled correct since we do have water and not gas..   this means atomicaly the only way for electrons to get through the water is how?

these words in quote are stans words from his own mouth on one of his videos

"waters has 8 electrons in oxygens  L orbit when it is water..   L orbit has a capacity of 8 electrons.. it dont want anymore electron nor does it want to exchange electrons.. which means it opposes the movement of electrons 78.54 greater then air"

when stan says "movement of electron" what does he mean? does he mean the force of moving an electron out of orbit L?... 
"nor does it want to exchange" is another key term defining the resistance hes tuning to..

The holes you are referring to are the ions present in the water in the form of salts and such. The ions accept the electron from the cathode making the ion net negative and will also have an attraction the the positive plate. When the ion touches the positive plate it gives up the charge(electron) it took from the cathode.

Remember, dielectric values are based on pure substance which water almost never is even close to pure.  Also, a dielectric value is based upon a medium with little or no ionic content. Since ions are natural charge carriers, the presence of them in water make the conductivity overcome any dielectric resistance. So using the basis of 78.XX ohms as an arbitrary point of measurement is mute, that number will not calculate with your real results.

Electrolysis is by far the opposite of ionization. What I see many do is try to put them in the same comparative group. What should be realized is the current in electrolysis is to be the process we do not want to happen. We want liquid to gas ionization with normal tap water or any available water. But all available water has a good amount of ionic content forcing us to find a solution allowing us to attain high voltages without letting the ions take electrons from the cathode. Hence the need for chokes or a capacitive/resistive ground. Think of it this way... The ground is a vast sea of free electrons. If we charge a plate positively, the electrons from the ground will be attracted to it, depending upon the voltage level and the space between the positive plate and the ground. What we are trying to achieve is keeping the free electrons from leaving ground by means of resistance and magnetism or any method that works. That allows us to raise the positive voltage to a higher potential without drawing current from ground and yet bring the positive plate as close to the ground as possible. I like to call it a "capacitive resistive ground". Now, being able to have this high differential between the plates, the medium in that space, whether it be air or water, will be polarized and or ionized from the conditions set forth. It is easily proven with an "air ionizer" experiment to demonstrate one possible method, although air has very little ionic content where as, water has quite a bit, making circuit design less of a challenge.

How much energy does it take to strip one electron from hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen? What is the most efficient means of ionizing a medium to force it to eject electrons from their orbits?
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 21:22:48 pm
Hello guys,

I discovered another mean for resonance... in quantum physics the electrons that bounds the molecules together move from molecule to other molecule all the time and this is also called resonance. Example you have a aromatic Hydrocarbon molecule witch is closed and witch have 3 double bounds and 3 single bounds, the electrons (cloud) in the bounds are known to change position inside the molecule all the time.

I was guessing today if stan was not meaning by resonance only the self ionization of water induced by voltage...


Hi outlawstc

He meant the resistance of the movement of the ion. As water have 10 electrons and all them are bounded there is no free electron to move.

the 78,54 is the dielectric constant, witch dictates the rate of electrons or coulombs of charge it need to hold to build up 1 volt.

The water molecule have 10 electrons and this is the reason why its so polar. As the oxygen aways want electrons this electrons get closer to him actually in its orbit and it leave the hydrogen as tips glued on him.

By holes i wanted to mean that when you have oxygen gas and you ionize it negatively you fill one of this two holes, lets say it start having 9 electrons instead of 8, thus every oxygen would want to link up with one hydrogen. Otherwise what i was trying to say also was that if you could instead ionize it positively lets say taking from it 1 electron making it have 7 instead of 8 electrons, it would like to link with 3 hydrogens, and this would lead to not reform water entirely as you see below.

Example (the extra oxygen come from atmosphere):
If you take 2 moles of hydrogen and 1 mole of oxygen you have 1 mole of H20    Reforming water normally 18g per mole
If you take 2 moles of hydrogen and 2 moles of oxygen you have 2 moles of OH-  Reforming more water than H2 would normally happen 34g per mole of water
If  you take 3 moles of hydrogen and 1 mole of oxygen you have 1 mole of H3O+ Reforming less water than H2 would normally happen... 19g per mole of water
Thus i guessed that what meyer intended by re energize the water was actually to allow the water to cool down and by action of the sun and the difference of the charges to bound together and rain again.

More things i learned:

Oxygen love electrons.
Electrons or charge can't stay inside a conductor (tube) always outside. (i was thinking about how the delrin in the outside of the tube could influence in this) didn't concluded nothing yet.
Neutrons exist inside the atoms to keep the protons from "touching"each other. And neutrons can be converted into 1 proton and 1 electron.
Water have a certain +- 5% of deuterium witch is hydrogen with 1 neutron inside.

Stan sometimes talked about doing the opposite of electrolysis.
That self ionisation effect might be the thing.
So Stan must have thought on how to stimulate that effect, is it...



Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 25, 2010, 22:08:06 pm
I purpose a simple experiment to help explain what I mean when I talk about a capacitive resistive ground. I can maybe upload pics later today. The experiment requires a high voltage source, and a burnt out light bulb. In my personal setup, I use a plasma ball circuit and a burnt 12V bulb. I am able to carefully touch the bulb to the out put wire of the circuit which is about 10Kv and see an array of sparks from the anode to the glass, much like the plasma globe itself. This demonstrates the "capacitive resistive effect" the glass and I add to the circuit. Me touching the glass of the bulb, makes the glass of the bulb itself the negative plate in the circuit. Notice no measurable current is drawn from ground. So where does the arcing come from? Ionization of the medium in the bulb? The glass?

feature=related
feature=related
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 26, 2010, 05:11:52 am
today I was thinking that meyer didn't generated too much hydrogen.
I was thinking about the numbers meyer gave to us and was relating it to cold fusion. 

I think that he was transforming the neutron on the deuteron percentage in the water into helium and energy by creating a fusion reaction. I think that this is why he didn't reused the water.

I think that he created a plasma (hard X rays) and ionized positively the oxygen atoms up to the point where it has got up to the threshold where the forces of attraction between oxygen and hydrogen is stronger than forces between the protons to start the chain reaction where the neutron of the deuteron is released and collide with other molecules of water causing instant explosion or detonation. _I think that he did it very precisely and controlled, and very concentrated in a very small amount of water.

His exhaust maybe was helium and h3o+ or h4o+ maybe thats why he said it need to be reenergized. Actually maybe it need photons and more oxygen to stabilize and become water again. ...
Regards
Title: Re: the dielectric property of water
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 26, 2010, 06:54:18 am
ok i am going to chime in here since you all seem to be dancing along my notes. but first some facts from common science.
Dielectrical breakdown of water happens at approx 70Mv/m (thats 70 mega volts per metre) That is the voltage required for "water" to conduct. Scale this down and its about 70Kv per mm.
If you look at my project you will see that there is a phenomenon known as the avalanche effect (i'm pretty sure i put it in there :P). One of the few known processes of overunity. This has only been noticed on the nano level and is hard to consistantly replicate.
Dielectric avalanche happens at about 30% over the dielectric breakdown point of a substance. <note at this point the 100kv supply in my project>.

Other observations and readings that could be implemented sideways to help, Electric fields (these are produced by voltages, *WINK*, *WINK*) can accellerate/excite the electrons around them. Point in theory - if you could stablize an electric field at just under (or maybe over) that of the avalanche point of water this would excite/accelerate all of the loose electrons and those in the molecules them selves, to do most of the work for you.
Introducing a flood of "loose" and charged electrons (laser maybe) to the effected area would be like "multi-ball" in a pinball game.
Draw backs, your electrodes loose their charge with the transfer of energy (in other words the "loose" electrons rob you of your field very fast), every tried to generate 100kv from 12v. Its not that easy or safe.

Possible thoughts to help - PVC coating on electrodes. By increasing the gap to 150% (the voltage also) you can cover the plates in a 0.25mm thick coat of PVC which has a much higher breakdown voltage (400MV/m i do believe)

Please remember that the "conductive" voltage of water is the point when electricity will flow through the "substance" (hence why adding a nice electrolyte lowers that voltage). And breakdown voltage is the point where the non-conductive part breaks down and conducts.

This has (to me) explained a lot about the misconceptions in the way Stan Meyers describes what he is doing (please note these are my own interpretations of what has been said and i am not saying that they are right). Voltage doing the work - ie the electric fields produced by high voltages. Why it doesn't matter what sort of water you use. Why, how and process for the modifications to the alternator and the explanation with the small voltage increases to get more. etc etc

I'll leave it there before i create more of a wall, If you want me to elaborate on anything please don't fill this post unless it is relevant, just link either into my project area where i am happy to answer question or start a new thread :)