Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Stanley Meyer => Stanley Meyer => Stanley's Vic => Topic started by: hydro on January 09, 2008, 05:53:36 am

Title: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2008, 05:53:36 am
I cant tell you everthing. i can tell you its not hard, all you need to do is read and put the puzzle together. forget the VIC schematic that has been flooding the internet and start over, START HERE if you intend on running a vic

the first thing you should see is this

Great, now you have some kinda ideal of whats going on!

Check the picture i've included out. Great, now you're starting to understand a little better.

download "The REAL VIC" as i have included as a PDF file.

i bet you're wondering about the chokes? OK THEN, Great! i will include yet another picture to show you how small they're!

if you want to make a vic, get off ya but and do it. i will work on the vic, but not any time soon. meanwhile, learn how it works, learn just because it is called a steam resonator doesn't mean it isn't The VIC. LOL, you got to get EXPLOSIVE WATER from somewhere, and this is the PATENT YOU SHOULD SLEEP WITH!

good day.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2008, 06:01:15 am
here is a picture of the CHOKES.

I would like to add, don't rely on others to tell you what to do or how to do it! the fastest way is to read the pdf i have included, sleep with it. PRINT IT OUT.

Do your on work, don't rely on others to do it for you, if you do that it will never get done, and it will turn into CAOS with Blah Blah just like the Internet has been offering for years. it only screw with your head.

so if you want to replicate the vic stick with this pdf, follow the links i have given and have fun!
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 09, 2008, 06:02:39 am
OK, i may have left this out or you may not understand.

you should have 2 cells. they should be in different containers not in the same water.

The vic makes EXPLOSIVE WATER NOT HYDROGEN.

Happy Testing.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2008, 09:40:43 am
b. If you try to cook an egg in a microwave oven, the egg may explode. Compare this result to the process of cooking popcorn in a microwave oven.

      Answer: The yolk will boil and the increasing pressure inside the membrane can cause it to explode. In popcorn, water inside the kern boils and the increasing pressure inside the hull can cause it to explode.
      Why: The microwaves heat the water molecules inside the yolk without overheating and damaging the tough membrane
      around the yolk. While conventional cooking usually weakens the membrane long before it makes the yolk boil, that is
      not so with microwave cooking. If the yolk overheats and releases large numbers of gaseous water molecules, those
      water molecules can create an enormous pressure inside the membrane. When the membrane finally bursts, the steam
      throws gooey yolk all over the inside of the oven. Not a pretty sight.








Both gaseous CO2 and solid-state Nd:YAG lasers are used for cutting, in addition to welding, drilling, surface treatment, and marking applications.[2]

Common variants of CO2 lasers include fast axial flow, slow axial flow, transverse flow, and slab.

CO2 lasers are commonly "pumped" by passing a current through the gas mix (DC Excited)or using radio frequency energy (RF excited). The RF method is newer, and now more popular. Since DC designs require electrodes inside the cavity, they can encounter electrode erosion and plating of electrode material on glassware and optics. Since RF resonators have external electrodes they are not prone to those problems.

In addition to the power source, the type of gas flow can affect performance as well. In a fast axial flow resonator, the mixture of carbon dioxide, helium and nitrogen is circulated at high velocity by a turbine or blower. Transverse flow lasers circulate the gas mix at a lower velocity, requiring a simpler blower. Slab or diffusion cooled resonators have a static gas field that requires no pressurization or glassware, leading to savings on replacement turbines and glassware.






if you Super heat the water DROP with a freqeuncy it will cause it to become unstable with the infrared radiation, i will release thermal energy or GTNT as stanly calls it.

get you your cutting lasers!






Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2008, 09:41:59 am
you should have learned that microwaves heat water, not microwave ovens. also see magnetron
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2008, 09:44:49 am
http://home.cvc.org/microwaves/history.htm

When food was placed in the box and microwave energy fed in, the temperature of the food rose very rapidly
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2008, 23:21:25 pm
There will be 2 signals, think of it as 2 vic's and not 1. more on this later.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 10, 2008, 01:15:50 am
Is the VIC the basis for Stan's water fuel injector?
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 10, 2008, 02:01:16 am
not sure what you mean, i read in the patents that the vic is used to make thermal explosive energy on demand without the use of a fuel cell. i strongly doubt that the vic you see in the patent is the actual vic.

thermal means HOT. i ran a test on super heated water, i can say that with high sparks it does make balls of flames, but the flames come and go, i really didn't see how it would be useful, i didn't have it under compression either though.

i think stanley still has me confused, the way he uses the steam resonator is alot like the kelvin water drop generator, but also he has his vic mixed in with it, then again he dont, he is very confusing!  im still kinda lost, but it would be good to compare the steam resonator to the kelvins water drop generator.

i have used a high voltage TV coil and a coke bottle cap full of water, i managed to get a flame under water for some time, and i noticed the water got so hot it started to steam, i've tried to do it again several times with no succes, i was using the lawton circuit to pulse the transformer with both timers in use, from the best of my memery i hit the frequency with the cap labeled 103k, and the first timer just made slower pulses.

after i got the flame under the water and removed the coil, the water turned white, and it had what looked like toilet paper in it, hrmm. 

EDIT: OH yes, i see what you're asking now, yes the vic is all that is needed to run a car on water according to stan, he will screw the vic into the car, it replaces the plugs, he has a water line going to the vic as well as a coil wire, and i think he has an external device hooked to the vice, not to sure. you should see the video, try youtube, i forget what its called but it tells you alot about it.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 11, 2008, 06:33:18 am
I wish you remembered what utube vid it was ...
He also used ionized gas dont forget that
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2008, 09:06:53 am
A control and driver circuits for a hydrogen gas fuel  producing cell

International Publication Number:  WO 92/07861

Figure 1

Re: voltage intensifier circuit, phase lock loop, resonant scanning circuit, pulse indicator circuit.

I have not seen any of these things when looking at the Lawton circuit.  Maybe I'm missing something.

Meyer claimed that these combined circuits with others per Figure 1 would convert 5 gallons of water in an hour using a 0.5 inch in diameter stainless steel rod and a 0.75 inch inside diameter cylinder that together extend concentrically about 3.0 inches with respect to each other.  page 12

Patent filing date 2 november 1990
Publication date 14 May 1992



i have seen this also. The only conclusion i can make out of this, is that he used a resonance tank circuit. That would have included the wfc as a capacitor. Because of changes in the wfc meaning temp changes, the capacitance changes as well. To monitor those changes and to keep the circuit in resonance, you need a pll locking circuit to control those variables and auto adjust the frequency.

br
steve





Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2008, 11:52:08 am
Yes I am working on a PLL circuit now to keep the Water Fuel Cell in resonance all the time.
But I can not talk about it as an open source.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2008, 14:04:41 pm
Resonance of a circuit involving capacitors and inductors occurs because the collapsing magnetic field of the inductor generates an electric current in its windings that charges a capacitor, and the discharging capacitor produces an electric current that builds the magnetic field in the inductor, this process is repeated. When the inductive and capacitive reactance equals, we have resonance. You can not calculate resonance without first, knowing the inductance of the inductor, and the capacitance of the capacitor. In your case, the capacitor or capacitors, are your pipes, along with what they are submerged in. The total capacitance depends on variables. The pipe length, thickness, type of metal, spacing, and the water used.
Every fuel sell, of this type, will have a different resonant frequency. Remember, Stan reported, it does not matter if you use rain water, tap water, salt water, or snow. That was one of the reasons he used a PLL. Each of these will change the capacitor value, therefore, changing the resonant frequency. I stated in a earlier post, FREQURNCY GENERATOR QUESTION, why a PLL is necessary. Check it out! If you like, i`ll provide more on the PLL, and a means to provide resonant lock. Interested?
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2008, 15:14:06 pm
Yes I am working on a PLL circuit now to keep the Water Fuel Cell in resonance all the time.
But I can not talk about it as an open source.

Hi Plasma,

Welcome to Ionizationx.com!
Its good to have somebody here who is bussy with the resonance concept and also with Tesla stuff
For me, its going to be time to prove some concepts.

There are 3 options:
1. parallel coil and wfc
2. serial coils and wfc
3. resonance in "resonance chokes"

Remember that water starts to "ring" above 1500V.
The most logic tank circuit is a parallel tank circuit because that gives in resonance a high voltage and low amperage.

Important: normally a tankcircuit CANNOT work with a diode in it!

Thats it for this time.
C u laters

br
Steve
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2008, 11:37:56 am
Hi Tim,

Thanks for responding. I already have all patents of all major people in this field and also from Stan the man.
I know this VIC drawings out of my head and on a bad day, i even have nightmares from them... :D

I don not know what you field of expertiece is, but I am from education level a High frequency electronic engineer. It not my job anymore for 20 years, but i do still enjoy some of that knowledge.
And as a child i rebuild cars too......So this hobbie is fitting me quite well.

The reason I asked, is because there is something in those patents of Stan that doesnt make "normal"sense.
For once, is the diode in his circuit not ok, if you talk about resonance. You can use one for doubling voltage in a dc step up voltage doubler.

Secondly, the other strange thing is the core of the VIC.
Not the material, but the way all coils are on it.
It means that all coils are getting the magnet pulses of the primairy coil. That coil is the first coil who is getting magnetisd. The reaction is that all other coils are getting a magnetic field and when that field collapses, you will have a BEMF reaction, so you have a current running throu ALL the coils!

But any way. Its time to figure that out and to setup some high voltage resonance circuits.
I orderd 2 neon circuits who are putting out a 7kv unloaded, and the will put out a 1.5kv with load.
I got my LCR meter last week and I will have a HV probe next week coming.
It s time to prove LC resonance with a wfc.

br
steve

Ps.
I also continue my alternator/steam setup....That setup proved it self already!
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2008, 20:23:47 pm
I think you waist time here

Steve
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2008, 06:32:17 am
The first thing you read when you look at stanleys vic patent is "Thermal Explosive Energy" or HOD on demand! also he has a video where he says and demonstraights the small vic injector, he says its all thats needed to run the little car.

Patents are just saying, hey i have something, patents do not show or bring detales for the actual device, so the vic really doesn't even exsist, or if it does then it works nothing like you see in the patent.

What stanley is saying about the vic is that the inductor "C" will UP the Frequency that the Transformer "A" is producing, so the inductor C acts as a Frequency Booster. So inductor C does changer polaritys, 2 times or even more for every 1 time the Transformer A takes a cycle.

So Inductor C is what you're trying to get resonate here, when you get inductor C to resonate, the capacitor has already taken on a charge, with that said and known in electronics Inductor C has Also taken on a charge, From the Front of Inductor C to the back of the capacitor Negative lead forms a series BOOST. so you ADD the voltage across the cell to the voltage across the inductor and it is INDEED higher than the amount of voltage powering the system because the Capacitor not only has taking on a charge but is no combined with the inductor C "at inductance resonance """""threw the diode""""" "

Wiper are inductor D is biffilar wraped with resistant wire, as for inductor C and transformer A as well. all biffilar. Inductor D Changes the Resistance of the Fuel cell, thats its job. If the water conducts in stanleys world then no electric fields will be produdced so the wiper arm also helps to PREVENT amp flow since it acts as a tunable resistor not to mention that all the inductors used is resistant SS wire.

if it is possible to send high voltage threw water without the water itself conducting then the volts will remain high, the cell would take on a charge and it would be the electric fields that pulled the water molecule apart and NOT power from a battery source. The problem is it has been proven not to work.

Also, During resonance of Inductor C after the water fuel cell has taken on a charge, the water itself Tends to start resonating or oscillating Caused by the electric Force From Transformer A and Inductor C.

When a opera singer breaks a Glass she finds resonance of The Glass, This is Clearly NOT what stanley was doing, he was Claiming to Use Electric Fields, the whole reason of Restricting AMP FLOW.


STANLY MEYERS is the man that said to use Pulsed DC, not pure DC, he is the guy that caused me to understand that PULSED DC does work better. as i recall in one of his patents he said he used unfiltered unregulated Pulsed DC as well.

He was producing Gas with Pulsed DC, You can get burst of gas this way, and it will continue to burst. But as he described the VIC the Blockind dioded would allow the Inductor C to resonate with or Threw the WFC, so yes there is a reason for that diode allthough no gas is produced at resonance only Very high volts, This also proved that the vic didn't work. I think Dogs from waterfuelcell.org is also learning about this as i have heard he found resonance but no gas, you drop under resonace and you gain gas.

Stanly wasn't using anything overunity at all, there is nothing special about his way of producing hydroxy, however what is special is that he knows something that we do not, he is mixing his own gas some way or he is using a PEM te extract electricity to produce even more hydrogen. The man has everone on a wild goose chase and me and a few others have already confirmed the man is a liar,, and we also agree we would have done the same to protect the work he has protected if it was ours. but the cats outta the bag now, its just a matter of time.

there is few that understands the process and now has moved on to the next level, how did he do it with the gas that he was producing? the journey has begun!

EDIT,,,, Well,, i didn't really mean he was a liar, what i meant to say is patents are not true, they're just saying hay, i got something here,, i dont think anyone shows there actual device in their patents,, anyways sorry for my slopy typing on the fly tonite, it is 1:05 am
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2008, 06:55:52 am
The reason i have not posted to the internet my gas production is people do not understand at all, they just want to know what you produce.

i will now post what is being produced with cells, before i do i would like to explain This.

Over a period of 1 year hardcore testing it was learned that pulsed DC can out perform pure DC. You have the ones that use KOH and other additives that can compete with Pulsed DC.

The problem is when you use KOH or additives you consume amps and this cost heat, power and more money. when you compare my gas output to someone elses gas output that is using Koh and DC then of course there output is going to be better, but they're severely paying to do this.

using no additives with pulsed dc, you can get away with not consuming amps, but only with the alternator. the hydrogen output from the cell when driven by an alternator, "unregulated unfiltered DC" is untouchable by a DC source of the same voltage. DC does not produce gas, its a wast of heat.

water is effected;  from over time of testing, Pulsed DC grabs the water and it lets go of it where DC just grabs its and turns to heat, SO you solve this with KOH. OR use just Pulse. but pulses are just more efficient.

if i was to tell you My total Power Consumed was 950 Watts to put out 270 CC's a min or around 1.4 or so liters in 5 mins, then who's cell can compete with that? and did you notice the power consumed? what i mean by this is 950 watts is what should be used to run a driver motor, such as the one stevie runs. no matter if you even have an alternator connected to the driver motor it will still be 950 watts. Under very strong loads you will see it go over 1000 watts. It is very hard for me to explaine this, its not something easily understood, its just something you have to learn and then step back and look at.

the thing is, Pulsed DC verses Additives, you're choosing this, Should i get lots of batterys and use Koh for short runs "where this will cost you"
or should i use pulsed dc to generate a fair amount of gas, "this doesn't cost much" more units can be added. "ITS MORE POSSIBLE THIS WAY THAN THE ABOVE"
i would assume you want this in a car, and not in a tank?

The output of my setup is not what you should be looking at here, it should be learned that Pulsed DC on the right cell is very possible to be installed into a car where Normal DC, its not possible, It could happen but it would be so clunky and heavy it would need servicing rapidly and would not be worth the hassle. this is what stanly knew. his reall cell setup and real way of delivering pulsed dc i am not sure of, but the man made a good point that makes lots of since.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2008, 17:04:11 pm
I don't have a working super efficient   (meyer) WFC, but I can understand what is being being done, and said.

The VIC is a "solid state" alternator, and the alternator is a ROTARY VIC (+ pulse frequency generator) ..  You can see this right here:  http://ionizationx.com/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=205.0;attach=588

pg. 16 ...   And pg. 15 shows the solid state version.


"Thermal Explosive Energy"    I believe is, the affect you get either during combustion of Hydrogen (when the H H O tries to reform bonds)   or when you disassociate the H2O,    AND somehow keep the Hydrogen (and/or oxygen?) atoms in an 'excited state' (with pulsed light, pulsed current, etc),  The energy  Meyer's refers to, i believe, is spontaneously  created (pulled from another dimension, etc).  Meyer's explains this in a video.

Just my 2 cents.


I
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2008, 17:47:37 pm
as i said cells with additives can compete, heres what ya do, go get the exact same tubes i am using and get a battery that is = to my voltage,,, try and keep up with my production without any additives... you will see it is not possible only if you pulse it or use additives to consume more amps


This is why i didn't want to post my production... people don't understand how to compare efficiency, i think the 950 watt motor kinda threw you a little, it can be mechanical power and i have been learning that the motor doesn't need to be so big as well. there is still things being learned here each day.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 16, 2008, 22:17:52 pm
Hi Tim,

Thanks for responding. I already have all patents of all major people in this field and also from Stan the man.
I know this VIC drawings out of my head and on a bad day, i even have nightmares from them... :D

I don not know what you field of expertiece is, but I am from education level a High frequency electronic engineer. It not my job anymore for 20 years, but i do still enjoy some of that knowledge.
And as a child i rebuild cars too......So this hobbie is fitting me quite well.

The reason I asked, is because there is something in those patents of Stan that doesnt make "normal"sense.
For once, is the diode in his circuit not ok, if you talk about resonance. You can use one for doubling voltage in a dc step up voltage doubler.

Secondly, the other strange thing is the core of the VIC.
Not the material, but the way all coils are on it.
It means that all coils are getting the magnet pulses of the primairy coil. That coil is the first coil who is getting magnetisd. The reaction is that all other coils are getting a magnetic field and when that field collapses, you will have a BEMF reaction, so you have a current running throu ALL the coils!

But any way. Its time to figure that out and to setup some high voltage resonance circuits.
I orderd 2 neon circuits who are putting out a 7kv unloaded, and the will put out a 1.5kv with load.
I got my LCR meter last week and I will have a HV probe next week coming.
It s time to prove LC resonance with a wfc.

br
steve

Ps.
I also continue my alternator/steam setup....That setup proved it self already!

My knowledge is quite limited in electronics.  Nothing like yours.

I've just been reading the patents.  When I see something like Hydrocars state that the VIC was the spark plug replacement and then see it listed in WO 92/22679 Figure 6 as the HFP Injector, I get confused as to which is which.  Also if the Patent information is not correct then this could just be a big waste of time.  I mean where would you start?

I think I read in one of your post lately saying you thought Meyer was trying to hide his setup in the Patents.  Maybe so.  I think if it were me, I would write the Patents as plain as day so that if someone were to duplicate, it would be clearly seen that it was my patent.

Concerning your alternator setup.  What would be the application for such a setup?  Would you use it to heat water and air? What is your output-LPM?  Does your setup remain in resonance automatically? 

What do you think of Stephen Meyers two alt setup Pat US2005/0246059?

Tim



Hi Tim,

I understand the confusion. First, you have to understand that everybody is learning. So is Hydrocars and so am I.
What we like to do here, is to help you guys out with what we know and vica versa what we can learn from you!
Stan explains it better then anybody, why he did what he had to do with those patents. He wrote many options to protect his finding. Like the use of resistive wire for a trafo or coil. In this video he explains that it was for being sure that nobody else could make a same sort of patent with other sort of wire in it.

The fun thing is that you have to understand to, that Stan had a development timeline.
He started with an alternator and ended with the sparkplug replacements. Thats a periode of 20 years or so.

The question were to start is for us a simple one. I can speak for Hydro as well in this case. Go use the alternator.
Thats the one that works. You have seen it working.
The second question for you is what your endgoal is with this stuff.
My endgoal and Hydro's endgoal is to get an engine running on this stuff.

Cell efficiency's is important, but not leading in this stage of development. First you have to prove the concept.
Even if it took you a 4kw to run a 0.5kw engine.........
As you have seen on the forum, we think that you can run an engine with 10cc hydrogen. On other sides you read different stuff. Until the moment that we proved the concept, we cannot say what we actually need..!

Your question about my gasoutput is very simple: its on its best, without the use of chemicals, a 0.35ltr per minute.
My alternator setup does not have trouble of getting the resonance state or to stay in that.
The word resonance is used for many different possible behaviours. Thats also tricky with Stans patents.

The question about Stephen Meyer is as follows: My 2 cents are that Stephen use a circuit that optimises the powertransfer for the alternator to the WFC. Its no more then an impedance adapting circuit.
As you may have noticed, is the behaviour of the WFC part capacitor and part resistor.
The more tubes in parallel, the lower the resistance of the WFC. There is an ideal point of what the alternator like to see as resistive load. There is also a ideal point of the WFC of getting power. You can match those two with a circuit. Thats what Stephen did, as far as I understand it. Its a good thing! But its not what Stan wrote in his patents.

I hope that i answerd your questions...if not, just ask again.

br
Steve
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 17, 2008, 12:50:23 pm
What is it what we see when we look at the VIC.
Is there something magical in the design? Are we hoping to find a miracle in it?

Last night I was thinking about this component for the 1 milions time in my life.
Just figuring out what Stan did. I have learned so many things of Stans patents, last months.
I think i can say that Stan was a smart man.
Now you all are asking: Tell us the secret of Stan.
I will and i will do it now. Stan found a way to make hydrogen with voltage.
Thats it.
The other thing of Stan is that he had a masterplan. He wanted to try to get as many patents as possible for electrolysis processen based on voltage. All stuff you see in those patents works.
Ok, it doesnt produce lots of hydrogen, but they do work.
The real thing that produces lots of hydrogen with almost no amps is still the holy grale of Stans work. We can assume that it workd on voltage and not on amps.

The VIC is such a part of Stans brainwaves.
What is it and what does it do?
Look close. What do you really see there.
We have a core and we have coils on it.
A Primairy coil and 3 secondairy coils. Thats what you see.
If the Prim coil is excited, the other coils are getting a magnetic field.
When the secondairy coils are connected in serie, and thats what I see, you just simply add the voltage outputs of those 3 coils together. Thats what it is.
Stan patented a normal transformer. And it produced bubbles at the Patent office, so he was granted his patent on a simple transformer. He was as surprised as anybody to get it.

Any search for resonance or other interesting stuff has to done outside the VIC.
So, you go and play with chokes and coils. Thats good research.
But the VIC is a simple transformer.

Hopes this helps.

br
steve
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2008, 03:02:05 am
Wow H2O, those coils look awesome!

Don;t worry weather anyone thinks you are out there or not. We all have ideas, but not all of us are able and some are not willing to try them out. The worst thing that can happen is it doesn't turn out to be a discovery. The best thing that can happen is it does!

Let us know how you make out with that. It makes sense to me, who knows...
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2008, 06:14:53 am
wow, and color coded!!! way to go man, i like it!
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2008, 12:44:55 pm
H2Opower,

Can you tell us how you measured capacitance of you wfc?
Can you publish a picture of that 0.1uF wfc?

Would be great!

br
steve
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2008, 17:18:29 pm
Those are very nice coils. What equipment do use besides a lathe?
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2008, 17:30:08 pm
a cell in direct contact with water does not behave as a good capacitor. more 10%capacitor and 90%resistor. You would not be able to get a steady reading of the value.

if there is no direct contact of water with the electrodes of the cell(coating of some sort maybe), then it would perform as a good capacitor. One would be able to get a  steady capacitance value reading with an LC meter.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2008, 20:47:06 pm
a cell in direct contact with water does not behave as a good capacitor. more 10%capacitor and 90%resistor. You would not be able to get a steady reading of the value.

if there is no direct contact of water with the electrodes of the cell(coating of some sort maybe), then it would perform as a good capacitor. One would be able to get a  steady capacitance value reading with an LC meter.

What about the tube conditioning?  Thats a coating.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2008, 23:22:59 pm
H20power. Can we see a picture of the wfc? are you using conditioned tubes?
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2008, 03:36:08 am
I know that microwave ovens and treadmills have some very interesting parts, but not at the values you are looking for.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2008, 05:04:04 am
Aloha,
Electric weed eaters have some nice bridge rectifiers.
There is a surplus electronics warehouse in the San Fernando Valley called Apex, I think. Anyone live near the valley?
This place has parts and components stacked to the ceiling, and the prices are CHEEEP, some things are sold by the pound. I have never been there, but my brother went there for me and picked up some goodys. There is a lot of military and industrial surplus too. It's a lot of hunting though, expect to spend the good part of a day, as there is only help at the counter, and stuff is scattered all over. I am tempted to take a trip over just to go there.
Bill
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 30, 2008, 08:37:22 am
Aloha,
I recommended the sources I did because of time and availability (as well as cost). All to often we see people say that they ordered this or that, and are waiting for something, or after a long wait were shipped the wrong thing. You will find the weed eater diodes as well as most other electronics specifications are clearly marked  thereupon.
In Hawaii, finding components is especially difficult. Shipping can be insanely priced and can take very long.
Besides, what if you ordered something, and it did not work? Or it did not work for your application?
Bill
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 30, 2008, 10:27:10 am
When you turn the wall switch on the light bulb will emit heat as it restricts the amp flow from the utility pole. The wires connecting normal household lighting and other electronic devices is also called conductors, we just use the term utility wire.


The point being made to this is that when you turn the light on current will flow threw the conductor to its source, where the source is where energy is released in the form of heat. The source is always the most resistant part of the circuit.

Take the headlights on your car for example, if you was to remove the lights from your car and short circuit it with a pair of plairs the wires would either Blow or the battery would blow. The conductor wires would become the most resistant part of the circuit. Never arc a car batteries terminals, my grandpa almost lost his eyesight when a car battery exploded in his face from arcing the terminals, he was rushed to the hospital.

Point being made that energy finds its way to the most resistance component of the circuit in the form of heat, light or some other kinetic energy source, and it finds its way to the most resistance part of the circuit threw conductors. without conductors the energy can not reach its resistance target.



Now that you understand that energy flows threw conductors to try to find its way to the most resistant part of the circuit we can applie this to the water fuel cell. Take a light and place it between the wfc and the car battery, you'll notice the light will shine and no hydrogen will be emitted from the fuel cell. Also don't forget that you're using conductors to make these connections.

why does the fuel cell allow the light to light but not emit hydrogen? well The fuel cells resistance in the circuit is not great as the resistance of the light, so the light wins the resistive war and the fuel cell has to surrender into being a conductor, if you was to remove the light and wire the conductive wires together in that very spot then you would see hydrogen because the fuel cell would become the most resistive part of the circuit. 


Now that you understand that by placing a light in series with the fuel cell this will cause the light to light and the fuel cell to become a conductor just like the wires used to connect the components. Now that you understand that the light is a resistor it is good to look at how chokes work. Chokes restrict current!

When you apply power to a choke, or coil of wire you're simply charging up the magnetic core or field around the choke. When this field is at its strongest the choke is restricting the most amount of current flow. Also when the maximum amount of current is being restricted by the choke the choke has its maximum magnetic charge. When a choke restricts amps it is acting as a resistor. Due to the previouse test, when a choke is being pulsed and restricting amp flow we now understand that the water fuel cell is a conductor just like the conductive wires making the connections.

What happens when the chokes are discharging? well the polarity of the transformer is not seriesed up with the Collapsing of the chokes, meaning this is where most people fail in getting the vic to work. In the dave lawton circuit dave would pulse the chokes then add a crowbar diode, this diode would allow the chokes to make connection to the cell on its pulse off time.. Unfortanitely there is no crowbar in the meyers VIC circuit so the VIC transformer must act as a crowbar. Buy simply pulsing the transformer you will not see this crowbar action take effect in the transformer.

you have to pulse the chokes, and before the chokes collapse you must add another pulse of the same polarity, this is where it gets confusing. More on this later, i just gotta run, darn.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 30, 2008, 11:30:23 am
sorry for the way i ended that, but i had an instant message, but anyhow... if you place a 100 ohm in series with a 100,000 ohm resistor and you hook that directly to a power source wich one would blow first?? well, the 100,000 ohm resistor would try and resist more current, and the 100 ohm resistor would act as a conductor at this point, so the 100,000 ohm resistor would blow.

so it is also clear that the light is resisting more than the wfc when in series, the light is conducting heat where the water fuel cell is hardly resisting at all.

if you was to applie a light bulb across the fuel cell what would happen? again put your resistors in parallel. the 100,000 ohm resistor would blow first, what does this mean? Well if you hook a light bulb in parallel with a fuel cell, due to the resistance of the light bulb vs the fuel cell, hydrogen will be produced, but given the fact that there is a light there, the fuel cell has to give up some of its energy to the light. so the light is lit by the battery and not the fuel cell lol. Most people have problems understanding this, All this relates back to common sense! stuff people hardly use anymore.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 18, 2008, 01:52:49 am
i can't seem to find a steup toroidial transformer....i dont know if my searches are right or anything but i am going to build the vic on 2 seperate cores instead of all windings on one.....but i just don't know where to find a toroidial core that meets the patents requirements (isolated and step up) it seems i cant find both of those factors in one toroid....if i were to wind my own toroid how would i go about winding the secondary??? would i just be able to wind it directly over the top of the primary?? if so i will jump on this immediately.....as of now i am getting a custom made laminated steel core for the bifilar coil to be wound on.....
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 18, 2008, 02:04:19 am
 kinesisfilms


Try micrometals.com for a powdered iron core.

here's were I built a bob boyce toroid  / step up transformer

Spike
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 18, 2008, 02:13:45 am
ok so if i were to wind the primary onto the core as you did that insulate those already insulated wires with tape as you did then begin to wind my secondary with more windings of a different sized wire...this would be a working step up isolation transformer?? and yours did work? and if so what was your ratio of input ot output??? thank you!!
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 18, 2008, 02:50:22 am
For your ss 430 wire just do a search of custom wire companies, Here's a good one that can provide any conductor, any size with teflon insulation!!! There not trying to keep people from selling the items, you just have to know where to look...Oh and You shoudl probably call them as they rarely respond to emails....There website even states "No job too small"!!!

 http://www.phoenixwireinc.com/index.html

    -good luck
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 18, 2008, 03:17:27 am
kinesisfilms

Actually, This coil is a little different. the secondary is wrapped first(180 wraps), Then three primaries(48 wraps each). Your initial power is routed negative to the cell, positive to the secondary, then secondary to the cell. the three primaries are pulsed at three different frequencies. boosting the positive secondary up to 40 amps over what it was. Also piggybacking it with a carrier wave of the three frequencies to create the harmonics.

Spike
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 18, 2008, 07:54:03 am
spike i know your coil was different and uses harmonics....but i understand hte general idea of what makes an isolated transformer....have you hooked up the vic transformer the way that most everyone else considers it to be hooked up...this is what i am going to attempt to do..

i know there is no blocking diode...
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/connection-1.jpg)

all my confusion seems to be around connections
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/toroidial.jpg)

is the toroid connection correct?? and is the overall connecting correct???
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2008, 21:31:00 pm
For your ss 430 wire just do a search of custom wire companies, Here's a good one that can provide any conductor, any size with teflon insulation!!! There not trying to keep people from selling the items, you just have to know where to look...Oh and You shoudl probably call them as they rarely respond to emails....There website even states "No job too small"!!!

 http://www.phoenixwireinc.com/index.html

    -good luck



alright so i just found out that it cost 180 dollars for 100feet of bifilar 24 guage wire which compared to everyone else this is very good......the phoenix wire inc is a good source. thank you!!
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2008, 22:07:25 pm
This $180 price seems way to high.  I got my 28 awg off e-bay in 200 foot spools for much cheaper than that.  I think it was $10 per spool.  It was new but military surplus.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2008, 23:11:30 pm
smallparts.com has cheap bifilar
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 09, 2008, 03:00:53 am
Dudleyengineering,

Thanks for the link.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2008, 03:03:07 am
Dudley,
Do you have the part number or the keyword to search for? Most places will not call it bifilar.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2008, 03:41:55 am
i bought it from them 6 months ago i would have to search their again

their is also another  place  http://www.surplussales.com/Wire-Cable/Wire6.html (http://www.surplussales.com/Wire-Cable/Wire6.html)
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2008, 17:54:31 pm
the wires at the coil are not connected bifilar. is this a mistake or not?
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 10, 2008, 18:35:04 pm
no mistake the vic is the transformer and the bifilar coil.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 18, 2008, 23:44:24 pm
i bought it from them 6 months ago i would have to search their again

their is also another  place  http://www.surplussales.com/Wire-Cable/Wire6.html (http://www.surplussales.com/Wire-Cable/Wire6.html)


thank you dudley this was such a huge help....i have order 50 feet of 24 gauge copper magnet wire! now on to finding a core!

the other website suggested "smallparts.com" no longer carries bifilar it seems.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 05:22:26 am
This is a very interesting find.
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 26, 2009, 06:10:38 am
This is a very interesting find.

this is just fearjar's topic he posted over at waterfuelcell.......
Title: Re: How To Construct & make a working VIC
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 27, 2012, 11:43:50 am
hydro...to be continued?the construction of the vic..and thanks for the explinations so far