Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Engines On Water => How to run your car on hydrogen or water => Topic started by: Steve on March 22, 2010, 14:21:16 pm

Title: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 14:21:16 pm
Facts:

Burning velocities of hydrogen-air and hydrogen-oxygen mixtures.
The burning velocity is a function of the fuel and the oxidizer and the mixture ratio.

Hydrogen = fuel
Oxygen = oxidizer

Burnrate of hydrogen+oxygen = 10 m/s till like 36.8 m/s
Burnrate of hydrogen+ air      = 1.8 m/s till like 4.4 m/s
Burnrate of unleaded petrol = 0.34 m/s

http://www.faqs.org/faqs/autos/gasoline-faq/part4/preamble.html

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXXXXXXX

Now back to our subject here.

Hydrogen does NOT burn without use of Oxygen.
The amount of Oxygen dictates burn velocity of the HHO and air mix.

By adding electrons to this mix of gasses, we will eliminate (neutrilizes) the oxygen atoms. We neutrilize till a level that the right burnrate velocity has been achieved.

Because we need a sertain amount of gasvolume running thru the engine, we need the ambient air. So, the output of a Wfc, mixed with ambient air provides the amount of volume needed in the engine.
The addition of electrons makes the gas mix similair to petrol by neutrilizing a part of the Oxygen atoms (aka oxidizer).


CASE SOLVED (i think :) )

Steve
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 14:39:07 pm
Now think futher:

What would happen if you where able to create an airflow with lots of "extra"electrons and make that air buble into the bottum of a waterbucket.
What could happen here?

Because there is always a jumping of hydrogen atoms and oxygen atoms, it would be very possible that the oxygen atom will bond with the free elctrons and we will get pure hydrogen out of the water without electrolysis......

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
My mind is getting crazy now...... ::) ::)

Steve

Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 14:40:12 pm
Thats what i would call "charging up the water "      LOL

Steve
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 14:42:29 pm
Use the exhaust air flow and ionize it with lots of extra electrons and feed that into a bucket of water.....
Of use an airpump....


Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 15:18:56 pm
did you try it?
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 15:22:29 pm
did you try it?

Not yet.
Ionizer is on the workbench, blowing lots of cold ionized air in my face...
Doing a 12Kv on a single needle.

Steve
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 15:57:43 pm
Now think futher:

What would happen if you where able to create an airflow with lots of "extra"electrons and make that air buble into the bottum of a waterbucket.
What could happen here?

Because there is always a jumping of hydrogen atoms and oxygen atoms, it would be very possible that the oxygen atom will bond with the free elctrons and we will get pure hydrogen out of the water without electrolysis......

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
My mind is getting crazy now...... ::) ::)

Steve

I did try this last year, it was one of my last tests and didn't work.

my set up was:

TV Fly back transformer
Air compressor
sealed glass container with water.

I had plastic tube going to the bottom of the sealed glass container connected to the air compressor. I could regulate the amount of air flow. also the tube inside the container was plugged and I punctured several little holes in the tube so the air bubbles would be smaller.

the container cap had an second plastic hose for the air to exit.

filled the container with water.

then I tested it, HV coil generating over 25kv, feeding air from the compressor, at different air flow rates.

I cold smell the ionized air exiting the exit tube,

so Ionized air was going in and going under water, but it had no effect at all on making any sort of hydrogen.

now that I'm typing this, I though of one thing I should have tried but didn't think of and you may want to try, and that is using hot water. vs just cold.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 16:16:54 pm
Hi Jolt,

What do you think of that first statement? Adding electrons to slow down the burnrate of the HHO and Air mix?

Steve
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 18:21:26 pm
Hi Jolt,

What do you think of that first statement? Adding electrons to slow down the burnrate of the HHO and Air mix?

Steve

I do agree with that statement and I had 1st hand experience with it.

when I tested ionizing hho, I would notice a change in the color of the burning hho when ionization was turned on.

one problem is we still need very large amounts of hho.

the other problem is to get the correct balance without causing a unwanted explosion while ionizing hho.

Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 18:31:01 pm
Hi Jolt,

What do you think of that first statement? Adding electrons to slow down the burnrate of the HHO and Air mix?

Steve

I do agree with that statement and I had 1st hand experience with it.

when I tested ionizing hho, I would notice a change in the color of the burning hho when ionization was turned on.

one problem is we still need very large amounts of hho.

the other problem is to get the correct balance without causing a unwanted explosion while ionizing hho.

There is one more issue...

I think that in order for ionization to make an effect, the engine it else would have to be isolated.. as soon as ionized air/hho enters the engine, it would loose or gain electrons and return to its original state.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 22, 2010, 20:09:08 pm
Its nice to see some discussion on this.
My 2 cents:

The point where you create the ionization or static field should be an enclosed body where all the mixing takes place also, depending on what you are trying to accomplish.
In other words you don't want the field of the static or ionization to travel to another point far away to mix it or not to use the whole field up.

If you ionize air its to create an effect. Lets say you want some exhaust recirculated with this air and maybe some H2.
All of these would go into a mixing manifold with a easy needle valve or control point to create the fuel and use the whole effect of the charged energy.
That would be one type setup. Easier to start and understand this than doing it all in a injector that needs to be developed anyway.
I see a lot more safety in doing this with just the injector.

Depending on the strength of the ionization lets say of air, the static field can saturate the ground frame metal of the vehicle and that static field will shock you every time you exit the vehicle as you are in the surrounding ambient air. It will discharge through you the moment your hand is removed from the door.
I have seen this is why I bring it up.
Because of this in my opinion if you make a large static field in whatever embodiment you should use it all up to create your chosen effect.
If there are many charged electrons find a way to use them so they don't saturate the ground plane, as you will end up anyway trying to find a way to discharge a saturated field you made.

A point of how much is needed and control it so no excess is going unused.

The only way to find this out is to make something and test it, so koodo's to Steve for getting started on the high voltage.
There's most likely a big difference from a table-top setup to a vehicle setup. 
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2010, 12:52:48 pm
Jolt, Komtek,


The basic principle of quantum mechanics is that the biggest atom always wins from the smaller one.
The oxygen is in mass the biggest.
The oxygen atom that we have after the electrolysis proces is an atom that is missing 2 electrons in his outer shell.
So, if you add electrons in the gas mix, the oxygen atom will fill his outer shell up with the free electrons and if there are no free electrons, it will bond with the electron from the hydrogen atoms.

Jolt, if the oxygen atom has filled his shell up, it will not change back into anything. There is no need for or proces that is doing that.
What is left in the mix is hydrogen with 1 electron and nitrogen with some electrons missing.
So, what happens next?

Some hydrogen atoms will bond with nitrogen and we will get Ammonia, which is good, because it levels on the same burn velocity as petrol.
We also have hydrogen atom with a certain amount of oxygen atoms that will bond in the burn proces at the same level as petrol too.
We end up with a much higher efficiency use of the hydrogen we produce.

Steve










Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2010, 12:58:37 pm
The question left is:

How do we get electrons in our gas mix?
Do we get electrons from electriciity, like HV?
Or do we rip off electrons by ionization from nitrogen/oxygen  (air)?


Steve
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2010, 14:44:52 pm
Try the electron extraction circuit
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2010, 15:21:40 pm
Why do you want to lower the burning velocity in complicated ways instead of altering the spark plug, so that the position is right for instantaneous burning instead of the delayed gas burning?
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2010, 15:27:43 pm
Why do you want to lower the burning velocity in complicated ways instead of altering the spark plug, so that the position is right for instantaneous burning instead of the delayed gas burning?

Because the explosion of hydrogen in stochimetric mix with oxygen is like PFF and no piston got the time to move downwards
Petrol does like this: PFFFFFFFFFFFF. Enought time to start moving downwards and thats what we need.

Thats why you need a slower explosion.....



Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 23, 2010, 17:41:10 pm
alright, thanks.
i thought the explosions weren't continuous but precisely timed when the piston is at the right position.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2010, 00:42:49 am
Why do you want to lower the burning velocity in complicated ways instead of altering the spark plug, so that the position is right for instantaneous burning instead of the delayed gas burning?

Because the explosion of hydrogen in stochimetric mix with oxygen is like PFF and no piston got the time to move downwards
Petrol does like this: PFFFFFFFFFFFF. Enought time to start moving downwards and thats what we need.

Thats why you need a slower explosion.....

Stan spoke some on dvd about how the ambient air didn't support a flame, he stated that he used that to slow down the burn rate, and that he could go as low is a piece of paper burning if he wanted because of the non combustible support of the ambient air.

I haven't read the previouse post of this thread, just thought id drop in and respond.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2010, 00:51:28 am
Ok, I went over the first of the thread.

As you all know I had a big claim of ionizing the hydrogen and oxygen, And I failed misserably at replicating it. Later on I finally figured out what I did wrong. When I went to post my findings, As usual it was debunked and overlooked.

I have put an entirely lot of effort, and time into describing how to properly do it, But again its overlooked. I've posted instructions time after time, Still nobody listens.

It is possible you don't have to have any ionizer to alter the gas. In fact, I posted instructions on how to do it about a week ago, And still to this day it is overlooked.

Perhaps eventually somebody will stumble upon how to do it, The realize all this time I already had it posted right in front of your face.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 24, 2010, 09:19:12 am
Warp,

Can you explain yourself?
Just a short, plain suggestion on how you would get electrons into the gasmix?

Steve
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 25, 2010, 00:13:12 am
Warp,

Can you explain yourself?
Just a short, plain suggestion on how you would get electrons into the gasmix?

Steve

Right off the top of my head,
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1338.msg15047.html#msg15047
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1201.msg12616.html#msg12616
http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1201.msg12676.html#msg12676

Most of what i've posted was under my old name which has been deleted.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2011, 08:46:27 am
Using waterfuelcell with engine has many important advantages such as its helps in reducing pollution, it has greater efficiency then diesel and gas engines and as compared to other engines they are quite silent.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 24, 2011, 09:21:34 am
Yes, indeed sir.

Thats the purpose of this forum.
To change the world from fossil till water as fuelsource.
Title: Re: The truth on how to run your engine on a Waterfuelcell
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2011, 07:03:02 am
Does run a car on water really work?