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Paul Pantone => Create electricity by usage of magnetic field => Topic started by: sebosfato on January 29, 2010, 23:04:28 pm

Title: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2010, 23:04:28 pm
I suggest to change this topic name to Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields.

I'm going to post something that you all have overlooked. Its a patent called Energy conversion system and Stanley meyer cited this on his patent called Gas electrical hydrogen generator. It basically shows and clearly explain how stan run his buggy.

Ok i'm saying this just to make you read it!!!

It explain well how the epg principle works!

So now you have an energy source.

Just need to figure out constructing the device and testing.

Steve check it out is only pressure that can do this.

Regards
Sebosfacts
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 29, 2010, 23:24:51 pm
I suggest to change this topic name to Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields.

I'm going to post something that you all have overlooked. Its a patent called Energy conversion system and Stanley meyer cited this on his patent called Gas electrical hydrogen generator. It basically shows and clearly explain how stan run his buggy.

Ok i'm saying this just to make you read it!!!

It explain well how the epg principle works!

So now you have an energy source.

Just need to figure out constructing the device and testing.

Steve check it out is only pressure that can do this.

Regards
Sebosfacts

Very very nice!

Steve

Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 03:00:56 am
seb,
are u suggesting the method which stan uses positive charges gasses (electron deficient) to draw current of electrons to gasses from earth ground?? i know stan explains this method in one of his videos..
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 03:32:02 am
The ionized gas have to do with it the rest no its not related to this

He uses the pressure developed from the cell to generate electricity (or doing work)

He magnetizes the gas and harvest energy from the movement of the continuos expanding gas. (basic principle of dc generation) Generating electrical energy that is used in closed loop (resonance) with the cell, generating more gas and consequentially generating more electricity and so on.

The multiplication factor will depends on how efficient will be the generation of electricity from the expansion. If you can have 80% efficiency you will have a over unity factor of 5. if you have 99% efficiency you will have over unity 99.

To calculate this you need to remember the Q factor calculation in electrical resonance.

Lets take the first example

if you input 1000 watts  you have
80%= 800 watts that will generate more  gas than
80% from 800= 640 that will generate more gas
and so on...
Than you have 1000+800+640+...= 5000watts output in h2 02

in the second example

if you input 1000 watts  you have
99% = 990 watts that will generate more  gas than
99% from 990= 980 that will generate more gas
and so on.
Than you have 1000+990+980+...= 99.000 watts  output in h2 02
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 04:02:14 am
can u post the sited document u speak of so i can read it?   i understand that there are some perspectives to  overunity that deals with linking the expansion of the gas to drive the generation of electric power... one must make the vic work to make the magnetic gas.. if u are saying stan uses the fuel gasses as the magnetic field can u post some documentation explain this.. that perspective i have not come across if thats what your refering to i would like some reference..

little off topic.. stan says that the vic is used to encourage particle oscillation.. particle oscillation means that they themselves are oscillating and i see it as the orbital electrons being the oscillating particle while the denser proton matter is also being effect but are more or less just being stablized during the lighter more mobile electrons oscillation... in order to make a electron move in a orbit this means you not only have to encourage it to go towards the positive but u must also encourage it to go the opposite direction of the positive plate toward the negative... this doesnt mean the negative needs to become positive to pull the oscillating electrons back toward the negative.. it just need to drop in potential back toward the positive direction (0v)... water it self will want to naturally balance and will encourage its own movement in that direction as the neggative pressure drops back toward 0.. and the postive having a fall time as well  will weaking its attration force that is pulling on the electron... at the same time the positive choke being isolated from the return of electrons from the secondary can step up each oscillation as it does so the negatives potential in the negative choke due to the bifilar mutiual magnetic attraction will gain and appear as 0..  so lets say it oscillates up to 1000 volts.. then u stop pulsing  you then have a high positive plate that isnt oscillating to rip electrons  its ionizing them without the need of oscillation until electrons make it back into the positive choke.. like a leaky cap..
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 04:33:09 am
The patent stan cited is in the first post

http://www.angelfire.com/ak5/energy21/electrodynamicgas.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MHD_generator
http://www.authorstream.com/presentation/samstudd99-74951-magneto-hydrodynamic-system-mhd-education-ppt-powerpoint/
http://www.linux-host.org/energy/smhd.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field

Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 05:53:31 am
nice find seb.. i now see what you are speaking of... so do u think that stan uses the non combustables as his neutral gas? i need to wrap my mind around this more.. thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 07:14:05 am
I don't know if the nitrogen is involved that much, in this principle. Nitrogen is important only as flame retardant to reduce the combustion speed second my thoughts.

I believe that he had constant pressure from his cell so he just mixed the gas switching with a butterfly valve between air and exhaust to control acceleration. Air for maximum acceleration and exhaust for idling. Obviously he might have limited also the resonant action to a certain degree in somehow as to have a increase in gas production in relation to rpm. I'm still working on that to find some more answers.

I'm happy that you enjoyed!
 

Stevie I was reading this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnetic_field and found that charged particles have a magnetic field. Ions... Ionized gas...

Probably we need to ionize the gas before it pass thru the tube. Or maybe only the magnets will do the job. I'm happy to say that I don't know yet.

Lets find out!
 


Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 13:08:55 pm
Sebos,

The test i ran here, showed NOT 1 voltage rimple whatsoever.
I used a strong magnet around my HHO output and on the same hose, i had multiple coils.
I pulsed the gas, etc etc.
Again, not 1 rimple.

So, if the option is to ionize gas, because that state can be magnetized, then my test would have shown some rimples too.
The gas from a WFC has always some ionized atoms in it, as far as my theory knowledge goes.

I prever to think that Stan might have used the gas and put that thru a magnetic liquid, like Ferrofluid. If you charge the ferrofluid with a magnet and make it move by use of the gasflow, then you have a moving flux and your coils will detect current.

Just my 2 cents for the moment.
Lets all keep looking into this, because it makes a lot of sense!

Steve






Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 14:34:24 pm
Yes the ferro fluid moved by the bubbles is very much simpler i guess, and i think is easier to replicate too. I was trying to guess what meyer was doing if using only with the gas.

I though about another possibility.

Maybe we could use the photoelectric effect to gain energy and to have a better ionized gas inside the tube. By having a sodium electrode illuminated  by a lasers about 400nm. This would give us some oxygen very ionized. I think.

did you tried the plastic tube thing man?

Have you seeing a vortex electrolysis when in presence of magnetic field?

Maybe with the resonant tank we can have enough high voltage to ionize the gases, just guessing again...

I was thinking about The resonant cell meyer used, he had the tubes isolated from each other.

In your design you might have some losses, some ac passing thru the tubes. Because they are not isolated from each other. What do you think about?

Maybe you could try to have one resonance for each individual pairs of tubes, what do you think about? I was trying to think about and thought that meyer used 11 vics so maybe he had different resonance for each tube. I will Still thinking about.
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 15:13:30 pm
steve,
gases coming out of the cell are still neutral having no field until they go through the hydrogen fracturing.. after hydrogen fracturing  the gas will be electron deficient and will have a positive vacuum field... its the same idea as the epg but it relies on energy from the vacuum to generate current (the highly unstable gas...

seb,
im still thinking about what u were saying about maintaining a constant fuel pressure while just regulating the non combustable and ionized ambient air.... im gonna have to disagree at the moment because in stans video when he first starts running the buggy he specifically states that in order to increase rpms all one must do is vary the voltage being applied to the cell.. so i would say voltage variates acelleration due to increases of quantity and pressure..

Quote
Maybe you could try to have one resonance for each individual pairs of tubes, what do you think about? I was trying to think about and thought that meyer used 11 vics so maybe he had different resonance for each tube. I will Still thinking about.

stan had 10 tubes cells hooked up as dynodon said.. it has 11 holes but one was not active.. each tube had its own vic and each tube had its own pll circuit (resonant tuner)  they have to because as stan mentions that resonant varies during gas production do to the gases exhisting in the gap... there is no way that each tube will be changing there dielectric resistance equally simotaniously.. each tube will experience its own distinct variablity during production..... that when it comes to resonant tube cells.. the rotary version going to multiple tubes doesnt appear to have that capability so i would say that may be one major distinction between a resonant cavitiy and the rotary vic
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 15:30:26 pm
Hi,

Its a challange to find out what or which components Stan used in his device.
Maybe Don can add something here?

Here are some links on ferrofluids:
http://www.popsci.com/diy/article/2009-09/making-ferrofluids-work-you
http://www.supermagnete.nl/eng/FER-01

You can make it yourself. Thats much cheaper.

Sebos,

My resonant circuit has been setup with 5 tubes of the 10 tubes in parallel.
5 for each direction.
I also tried single tube setup, like you have.
My theory is correct that more tubes in parallel will lower total resistance and that way, more current will be consumed (leaked) in the circuit.

Steve



Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 15:47:57 pm
http://www.physlink.com/Education/askexperts/ae493.cfm


Question

Why is liquid oxygen magnetic?

Asked by: Mitchell

Answer

Actually it is not magnetic but paramagnetic. That is that it is attracted by the magnetic field but does not remain magnetic once it leaves the field. Gaseous oxygen is paramagnetic also but is moving too fast to be affected by the magnets. The reason that it is paramagnetic is because the oxygen molecule has two unpaired electrons. Electrons not only go around the atom in their orbitals, they also spin, which creates a magnetic field. Unpaired electrons spin in the same direction as each other, which increases the magnetic field effect. When the electron in an orbital become paired with another electron in that orbital, the new electron spins in the opposite direction and this cancels the effect of the first electron. Note that according to Valence Shell Electron Pair Repulsion theory (VSEPR), O2 has no unpaired electrons but according to Molecular Orbital (MO) theory it does have unpaired electrons. Since liquid O2 does stick to a magnet, MO theory is better at explaining the behavior.

Answered by: Mark Lockhart, B.S., High School Chemistry Teacher


Firstly, let us define the properties of the oxygen we'll be talking about. O2 has, in total, 12 valence electrons (each oxygen donating six).

For something to be magnetic (we say 'paramagnetic'), it must have an inequality in the total electron spin. The quantum number ms represents the magnetic spin of an electron. It can have values of 1/2 or -1/2, and is an important number when dealing with bonding and the Pauli exclusion principle. When an atom or molecule has an equal number of 1/2 and -1/2 spins such that they cancel each other out, it is not magnetic (we say 'diamagnetic'), and this can be determined from how the different electron shells are 'filled up' by the electrons.

The VSEPR & Valence Bond theories do not explain O2's magnetic nature. However, experiment reveals it most certainly is! Molecular Orbital Theory (MO Theory) is needed to understand how O2 is magnetic. Teaching the basics of MO Theory would take far more time than can be devoted here, so I'll supply a link or two at the bottom for anyone who wants to learn more. :)

Anyway, the valence electrons fill the molecular orbitals in much the same fashion as in other bond theories, and the Exclusion Principle still holds, but these orbitals have different names. The order in which O2 will fill the orbitals is:

sigma2s, sigma2s*, sigma2p, sigma2p*

Two electrons can occupy each s orbital, while 6 electrons can occupy each p orbital. Following the Exclusion Principle, two electrons will fill both the 2s and 2s* orbitals, 6 electrons will fill the 2p orbital, and that leaves 2 electrons to fill the 2p* orbital. These two electrons will only partially fill this orbital, and will have parallel spins. Since the rest of the electrons are all paired, the remaining two electrons in the 2p* orbital give the diatomic molecule a net total spin (it does not matter if they are 1/2 or -1/2 spins, they will both be the same). Since there is a net spin, O2 is paramagnetic.

Since this isn't really the place to learn MO Theory, if you wish to learn more, see the following site:

Molecular Orbital Theory
by Purdue

Answered by: Philip Johnson, Physics Undergrad, Memorial University
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 16:13:31 pm
The fun thing about the last article, is that it confirms Stan Meyer technology.

So, maybe ionization is the next step. That should make the HHO paramagnetic, so to speak. Then test and see if we get a voltage rimple of a coil.

Hmmmm.
Back to my roots...ionization

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doubly_ionized_oxygen
http://www.physics.uq.edu.au/people/ross/phys2080/ael/saha.htm
http://www.physicsforums.com/archive/index.php/t-336089.html
http://www.scienceclarified.com/Io-Ma/Ionization.html

Steve
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 16:25:29 pm
Steve this explain why ionized gas would have a magnetic field. thanks a lot. Probably using magnetic electrodes to generate the gas we can also have parahydrogen as we were talking about the other day...

have you seeing this ? http://www.rexresearch.com/ehrenhaf/ehrenhaf.htm

About the cell, I think stan isolated his tubes that way in the resonant cell as to not have Ac current leaking thru the cell before the diode if you understand what i mean. Think about... For sure as the area of the cells are greater the resistance will be lower and efficiency will grow up. So loss less high voltage capacitors and thick wire to reduce losses in the tank and you should see more efficiency. Maybe thats why you had more than 1,4 volts between the cells ? ??

outlawstc i'm just considering the cell must operate at a maximum pressure or at least have a limit.
and that air mixed with the gas would give higher rpm than exhaust mixed with it. I was just considering a an acceleration differential or incentive. Off course as the rpm goes higher or you need more power you need to apply more power too. Is the same as gasoline at high rpm will consume more theoretically because on a motor losses increases for each cycle right!
 



Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 16:30:11 pm
Ionization energy
Electrons in an atom are attracted to the atomic nucleus by electrical forces. An electron is negatively charged; the nucleus is positively charged. Since opposite charges attract each other, an electron tends to stay with its atomic nucleus.

In order to remove an electron from an atom, then, energy must be provided to overcome the force of attraction of the nucleus. That energy is called ionization energy.

The energy needed to remove an electron differs from atom to atom. Consider the difference between hydrogen and sodium. Hydrogen has only one electron, located fairly close to its nucleus. A good deal of energy is needed to overcome the attraction of the hydrogen nucleus for its electron. Sodium has 11 electrons, one of which is at a relatively great distance from the nucleus. The force of attraction by the nucleus for that outermost electron is small, compared to the force in a hydrogen atom. The outermost sodium electron can be removed with a relatively small amount of energy.

This comparison can be confirmed by looking at the first ionization energy for both hydrogen and sodium. The first ionization energy is the amount of energy required to remove the first electron from an atom. For hydrogen, that number is 1,312 kilojoules per mole, and for sodium it is 495.9 kilojoules per mole. (A mole is a unit used to represent a certain number of particles, usually atoms or molecules.)  


Read more: Ionization - body, used, water, process, energy, oxygen, substance, change, Ionization energy http://www.scienceclarified.com/Io-Ma/Ionization.html#ixzz0e6tmbLYz
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 16:39:51 pm
Yes and thats why i mentioned sodium sodium tends to oxidize in presence of oxygen (the principle of the electron extraction circuit) This reaction produce electricity. If you use this electricity to drive a laser to ionize the sodium you will release the oxygen without its electrons... does it cost you any?

I'm going to watch steorn.com presentation live right now they will how the over unity principle and explain it right now in few minutes.
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 18:34:43 pm
i had one of the coolest 8th grade science teachers.. he taught me much about atoms.. he was the second teacher in line for the challenger mission that exploded at lift off.. lucky for him he wore glasses or he might of been the one in the shuttle... anyways he had pure sodium and we had the chance to see how it reacts.. sodium is highly unstable in ambient air due to moisture in the air.. he kept it in a glass jar filled with kerosene to keep it away from water.. it looks kinda brown and is like a block of cheese...  he would put small pieces in a pan of water and it would sizzle.. it was breaking down water and making hydrogen..  after a few seconds it would make a loud pop from igniting..  u could hold it between your fingers and feel it get warm as it sucks moister from skin...
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 30, 2010, 20:16:00 pm
It reacts with the air too.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium_oxide

This patent http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090010837 talks about use laser to reduce sodium after it released h2 from water.
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2010, 18:29:17 pm
I'm going to watch steorn.com presentation live right now they will how the over unity principle and explain it right now in few minutes.
I missed the show and i'm waiting for the videos to be uploaded tomorrow. Did anything impressive happen? It was probably not the best idea to simply short the coil which acts as a heater instead of applying a lightbulb or something like that. Would have been more impressive.
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2010, 19:33:30 pm
Yes haitar i think it would be more impressive if they could light a bulb too. They showed a kind of aways rising signal on the oscope to demonstrate ou. It seemed to me like stanley meyer aways rising graphs. They talk about collapsing the fields ...

If this graph was Current circulating in the shorted coils and voltage. They could have cheated on power factor. I'm not sure but is what it seems. If they used a light bulb they would have a power factor close to one and thus wouldn't work. They had a kind of resonance between mechanical and electrical circuit.

They stated that when you have the magnet closest point to the toroidal coil it has very low inductance (because the magnetic fields saturates the permeability of the core. And that when the magnet is moved far away the inductance increases 99.99% so basically is like if they would not count the back electromotive force when inputing energy on the coil and have a gain from this energy inputed on the coil of 99.99% 

I'm not sure if this holds true because you will need to do work to move the magnet away from the coil so i'm not able to do calculations on this yet to prove them are right or wrong.

However they stated also that efficiencies can become greater than 327% with bigger unities. 

I think is very possible but i'm not sure.
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2010, 19:40:50 pm
Ok, Stan Meyer says:

Hydrogen fracturing process
He talks about ionized mix gasses, but on the second hfp picture he is more specific. Just ionized OXYGEN and energized hydrogen.!!!!

The electrons of the hydrogen atom are much closer to the nucleus then the electrons of the Oxygen atom.
I think we can translated that to the power he used for this process.
High enough to kick electrons of the Oxygen atom and not off the hydrogen atom?





Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 31, 2010, 19:45:24 pm
seb,

stan explains that its really hard to ionize hydrogen.. but it is not hard to ionized oxygen this is most likey due to density i believe..  stan says when you ionize oxygen the hydrogen is present but the voltage stimulation doest effec the hydrogen. electron . he says that once oxy is in high positive state it will steal hydrogens electron leaving it a proton which is highly unstable...
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 00:13:35 am
All:
Water is an conductor, is it?
So, if a pulsing current is passing a conductor, there must be a magnetic field.
Right?

Does anyone have measured that?


Steve
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 00:22:48 am
water isnt a conductor but the elements withing water make it conductive... its resistive properties are determined by the amount of contaminates within the water.. there is a magnetic field i would say being forced on water because if you watch dynodons 3rd video when he bring the video camera  withing a certain area behind one of the plate the audio starts to pick up the pulsing field..
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 01:23:49 am
The magnetic field will depend on the inductance and the current that is passing thru the water. and will be relatively small. the capacitance of the water would higher than the inductance so water behave as a capacitor...

Steve the pictures you upload shows how the thermal energy is obtained.

Stan explains that the oxygen missing 4 electrons ... being a big atom and positively charged (potential energy added) will want to stabilize and when the spark start the explosion (chain reaction) what happens is that oxygen missing electrons attracts the hydrogen that is relatively small and having only one electron, with more violence releasing thermal energy = to the impact of the atoms. The gain is in kinetic energy. Or heat. Theoretically this holds.

YEs to ionize the h2 is harder because its electron seats on the first orbital thus is very strong attracted by the nuclei.

If you use magnetic field you can slow down or raise the velocity spin of the electrons making it to come closer to the nuclei or far from the nuclei. laser energy can do it too in somehow. He says the nuclei absorbs energy, meyer pictures shows it... 
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 01:28:24 am
if you note the fig 6

the electrodes are drawn in a certain way witch in other patents are described as permanent  magnets (with the lines in 45° inclination. And it indicates attracting force. If you look to all other drawings is the same. _The only different is the steam resonator ones...

So again something that talks to me and say he used magnetic electrodes (maybe)
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 01:31:02 am
i was just thinking. when stan ionized oxy into higher state this has to make the gas go into a more expanded state appearing as more in volume since if all the gas is potiviely charged and missing the balanceing electrons they have to repel more.. so if they repel more then when they do go to stablize they will have more of a collapse.. thermal energy is produced from the collapse of imbalance right??.
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 01:42:39 am
I think wont expand that much if the energy goes into the oxygen as electrical attraction form if it was heated it would expand for sure. But being o2 or oo should not give very big difference.

The thermal energy comes from the burning. The gain comes from this greater attraction that creates a bigger impact.

If you would just heat the gas you would give it energy but it would have expansion and thus you could have less energy coming out from a motor as the density would be lower...

Anyway i think we should just focus now on the energy source for now.

The thermal energy he invented was to need less water to do the same work. But the energy to add this thermal energy to the water must come from somewhere and thats the subject of this thread.

Regards

Another source of energy is the heat produced on the engine. this could give us a better efficiency when leading with the work done by the movement of the gas...

I calculated to boil one liter of water you only need about 100 watts. So we need to understand well the expansion thing and how many energy it can create.

I was thinking on how to calculate the magnetic field per charged particle we could harvest but is very hard to work with some formulas Maxwell...

Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 13:00:30 pm
Yeh, those extended Maxwell formula's are terrible!

But back to the principle of ionizing HHO gas into whatever gas output, who probably can be paramagnetic.
Stan used a transformer (VIC) to create HV at certain frequency.
He used a specific space between his electrodes and the electrodes had a specific lenght.

So, i wanna try something.
Outertube: diam. 2.5cm
Innertube: diam. ?  depends on how much HV (7kv?)(frequency?) and possible sparking. HHO conducts very good, so lots of space is needed.  Maybe 1 cm space?

So, lets us build something

steve




Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 13:21:29 pm

Stan explains that the oxygen missing 4 electrons ... being a big atom and positively charged (potential energy added) will want to stabilize and when the spark start the explosion (chain reaction) what happens is that oxygen missing electrons attracts the hydrogen that is relatively small and having only one electron, with more violence releasing thermal energy = to the impact of the atoms. The gain is in kinetic energy. Or heat. Theoretically this holds.

YEs to ionize the h2 is harder because its electron seats on the first orbital thus is very strong attracted by the nuclei.

If you use magnetic field you can slow down or raise the velocity spin of the electrons making it to come closer to the nuclei or far from the nuclei. laser energy can do it too in somehow. He says the nuclei absorbs energy, meyer pictures shows it...


I still have my LEDS laser array, which cover 4 frequencys of the hydrogen atom....
Maybe we need some frequencys of the oxygen, because we want to shoot the electrons of them, is it.

Another question raise: If the oxygen atom looses 4 electrons, it still wants, maybe even more, to mount the hydrogen atom with his single electron.
 What kind of molecule do we get? Some kind of instable water?

Steve
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 13:33:54 pm
Found some explanation:


Ionic bonding
Consider now a more difficult situation, one in which two different atoms compete for electrons. One example would be the case involving a sodium atom and a chlorine atom. If these two atoms come close enough to each other, both nuclei pull on all electrons of both atoms. In this case, however, a very different result occurs. The chlorine nucleus has a much larger charge than does the sodium nucleus. It can pull on sodium's electrons much more efficiently than the sodium nucleus can pull on the chlorine electrons. In this case, there is a winner in the battle: chlorine is able to pull one of sodium's electrons away. It adds that electron to its own collection of electrons. In a situation in which one atom is able to completely remove an electron from a second atom, the force of attraction between the two particles is known as an ionic bond.



Read more: Chemical Bond - examples, body, used, water, type, form, energy, system, oxygen, parts, History, Covalent bonding, Ionic bonding, Electronegativity, Polar and nonpolar bonds http://www.scienceclarified.com/Ca-Ch/Chemical-Bond.html#ixzz0eHsjkOIW
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 13:44:09 pm
Atoms are the smallest individual units of an element that retain the chemical properties of that element. They contain protons, neutrons (in most cases), and electrons. By definition, all atoms are electrically neutral, meaning that they have the same number of protons as electrons. If an atom acquires an electric charge by gaining or losing one or more electrons, it's called an ion.

Ions are atoms that have gained or lost electrons. An atom that gains electrons acquires a negative charge and is called an anion (pronounced AN-eye-on). An atom that loses electrons acquires a positive charge and is called a cation (CAT-eye-on).

"Element" is an umbrella term for all of the atoms that have the same atomic number. For example, every atom that has 8 protons belongs to the element called oxygen. The term "isotope" is slightly more specific, referring not only to atoms that have the same atomic number, but also the same mass number. Oxygen-16 refers to every atom that has both 8 protons and 8 neutrons. Oxygen-17 is part of the same element as Oxygen-16 (and has the same number of protons) but is a different isotope because it has a different number of neutrons and therefore a different mass.
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 01, 2010, 20:05:40 pm
the reason why the hydrogen is rejected from bonding when they high energy state oxygen grabs the electron is because the proton mass of the oxy is repelling the proton mass of hydrogen while pulling the electron
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 02, 2010, 15:10:06 pm
the reason why the hydrogen is rejected from bonding when they high energy state oxygen grabs the electron is because the proton mass of the oxy is repelling the proton mass of hydrogen while pulling the electron

Does it grap the electron, or does it make a bond?

Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 02, 2010, 15:44:21 pm
i would say 8 proton oxy having only 4 electrons would hold electrons twice as close then a balanced oxy unless being acted on by an external force that will accelerate the orbital electrons to maintain a further orbit

the oxy tries to balance it self due to the fact its missing to many.. its all simple math.. 8 protons 8 electrons = 0 neutral.. 8 protons 4 electrons= +4 electrical electrical charge....  the oxy will not want the proton of hydrogen to amount to 9 protons and 5 electrons.. i will say that once hydrogen looses it electron oxy going from having  4 electrons to 5 it will appear to the hydrogen as +3 and will not interact with it until a chain reaction occurs..   water we know has 2 protons for hydrogen and 8 for electrons =10  so and has 10 electrons =0 net charge... the wounderful thing about water is its a dipolar and can be alligned between opposite polarity fields.. this means its able to be stableized while exciting into higher state which i believe is where u are oscillating the orbital electrons as stan calls particle oscillation.. just as if the moon was to speed up it would fall into further and further out orbits due to the fact that its speed and velocity is beating the gravitational attraction of earths density... right now you see maintream working on particle accelerators trying to make antimatter (real vacuum)  there is density in all the universe even space.. light is a elementray particle therefore it is density.. to make a vacuum is to have the weight of the entire universe trying to concave it in.. they are focusing on accelerating higher densitys (protons) we are focusing on accelerating way smaller density called electrons.. which one seems easier to generate acceleration in a bigger mass or smaller?
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2010, 01:18:14 am
I think that watching to these two videos you are going to be able to understand what meyer meant by particle oscillation as energy generator. And probably how his gas got exited...

This principle can help us to understand how to accelerate the gas inside the epg. How to maintain it ionized and if you come back to resonance also how to do it economically... Remember that stan said that he multiplied the frequency by 2 so full wave bridge rectifier. For this case...  I believe it can really work and that can be too dangerous so attention working on this...
 


http://techtv.mit.edu/videos/1049-conducting-ping-pong-ball-between-capacitor-plates

feature=related

feature=SeriesPlayList&p=C2CEECFD938FD494
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 03, 2010, 04:22:50 am
If you remember the wave guides he shown WWWWWWWWWWW   it is = to the movement of the ping pong ball

So basically the frequency of this wave (and acceleration of particles) will depend on the water or gas density spacing between the plates and the ion current that will flow. I see application for this only with the injector, steam resonator and or his hyperdrive technology. Don't believe it can do other than hot water in a cell under water... 

I can be wrong...
 
It is useful in the epg and gas processor too.


Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 04, 2010, 05:34:41 am
If you remember the wave guides he shown WWWWWWWWWWW   it is = to the movement of the ping pong ball

So basically the frequency of this wave (and acceleration of particles)

That is a most remarkable theory .

I have tought the same and that is the only possible wavelenght that can ever be even remotly related to a makeable size cell .

A tuning fork has their resonant wavelenght in the audio ranges in all makeable size cell , thats in air .

Roughly ,  matching an electrical signal to a stainless steel tube   will have a propagation speed be a bit lower than speed of light . . Same for electromagnetic waves .



Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 03:53:21 am
Yes dankie it is...

The acceleration of the particles depends on the voltage. I learned this when I studied about the photoelectric effect. And collision.

Basically  An electron will gain kinetic energy when it fly towards a positive electric field. The gain in ev ( speed in meters per second) will be equal to the electric field voltage. It will gain 1 ev per volt in the electric field. Is like gravity acceleration (force) so ^2 squared.

I believe charged particles do the same but as they are atoms not only electrons they polarize second to the voltage field is close to it. I mean like the ping pong ball. When it charges positively its repelled by the positive field and attracted by the negative field, when it comes closer to the negative field it again change its polarity and is repelled by negative and attracted by the positive. As it have a bigger mass probably the acceleration will be less than 1ev per v. Will depend on the charge of the particle and its weight.

This would be the principle behind particle oscillation as energy generator

So i though time ago if i can accelerate the articles or electrons up to high ev i could ionize the oxygen like meyer said by collision.

To obtain free electrons i plained to use laser and a low working function electrode.

As i had no money to test this i didn't proceed to test it.

What i'm not sure is, if the electrons or charged particles touch the electrodes or the electric field, the voltage will discharge to some degree or not.

Stan stated an electric field could do work while not being consumed.

i don't know if the charged particle will change polarity when touch the electrode discharging it or if this transition of charge will happen like between the electrodes....

The wave guide stan showed us i believe that is the same as the particle movement during its travel in between the voltage zones. it goes like this because or of the movement of the flow of the gas or water or whatever he was using.

Now thinking about how could this work in true system we need to understand how many charges we need to have to do to achieve what he was doing. I think is a very big number from my calculations.

Charged particles are also influenced by magnetic field...

somewhere i read the particles would start to spin in a certain condition. Like a vortex that meyer showed.  I don't remember where is the document (it was an university document).

so here some info on particle acceleration and a simulator very nice.

http://agni.phys.iit.edu/~vpa/dcacceleration.html
http://www.pelletron.com/tutor.htm
simulation:
http://phet.colorado.edu/simulations/sims.php?sim=Photoelectric_Effect

Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 05, 2010, 05:20:07 am
More very good info in this wapedia:
 info is much better than wiki

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Particle_accelerator

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Ion_source

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Ozone

http://wapedia.mobi/en/Sonic_spray_ionization
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 05:25:21 am

Its clear to me now what kind of system this really is , the phonon effect explained to me by an awesome professor with clear and beautiful notes . So this is what Stan meant by a resonant cavity , same as puharich . A hydrophone or a listening device is a very useful instrument for this project .

That video of the ping pong ball , the quotes from Stephen and Puharich , the ac , the alternating 3 phase triple tube setup , and this video makes it all come to light  on what I should be looking for for maximum vibration . Still have many questions but I am norrowing it down . Its pretty easy to see why people people are hitting a wall . Low skills , extreme complexity and misleading information mixed together .

I will be dealing with this as a stricly acoustical device and deriving proper empirical studies and maximum power tuning from there .

Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 05:30:45 am
nice that you enjoyed man wish you good lucky .


I'm not sure what the phonons can do to the gas but he clearly described that the velocity of sound in a gas depends on its temperature and its mass. Velocity in meters per second = square root of temperature/mass 

in common air is 340 meters /second
Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 05:56:30 am

See that tuning video @ 42 minutes .

Here is an quote  from Stan's brother .

Just as tuning fork rings when struck by a hammer , so does  the waveguide elements immersed in hydroxyl generating liquid when struck by electrical signals from impedance matching circuits .

It looks to me as if there could be two oscillations here , the water acting as the ping pong ball , the tubes simply shaking @ a much lower frequency .

That 440 is like 4-5 inches long , speed in water is 1500 m/S . About 4.3 times faster

This means about a 16 inch long cell to match the wavelenght

Title: Re: Generation of electricity by usage of moving magnetic fields
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 18:26:04 pm
http://www.alliancesforhumanity.com/books/Keely.pdf (http://www.alliancesforhumanity.com/books/Keely.pdf)
http://www.artofhacking.com/IET/NEWTECH/live/aoh_puha1.htm (http://www.artofhacking.com/IET/NEWTECH/live/aoh_puha1.htm)
""In molecular dissociation one fork of 620 is  used,  setting
          the chords on the first octave.

         "In atomic  separation  two  forks, one of 620 and one of 630
          per second; setting the chords on the second octave.

         "In the etheric three forks;  one of 620, one of 630, and one
          of 12,000, setting the chords on the third octave.

As a matter of further clarification, Keely states that you cannot
    DIRECTLY dissociate a single level of aggregation due to the shell
    structure of matter.
                                  Page 2





    In other words,  if  you  wish to dissociate the Atomic level, you
    must first dissociate the molecular  to  be  able  to  get  to the
    atomic.  That follows also if you wish to dissociate  the etheric,
    you must disrupt the molecular AND the atomic, THEN the etheric.

    Keely refers to this technique as progressive dissociation.

"
br,
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