Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: kickbackemf on January 22, 2010, 05:02:34 am

Title: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2010, 05:02:34 am
Hey Sebofato,

thanks for the pll circuit...  I follow your ideas somewhat..

I read how you are winding coils with trials for acitivity and response.  Maybe you can explain this to me, or maybe someone else can who's reading this...

I've wound dozens of coils, rods, air, and toroids with various effects when pulsed with 130 volts rectified from my variac.

How is it that the best coil I've built for gas and back emf spike voltage is buit with a 4" toroid-iron powder mix 28 with an inner secondary wound of two wires in parallel as a single layer using 16 gauge stranded teflon wire with a primary wound over that of four layers of single wire 20 gauge stranded teflon wire.

They are both wound completely around the donut.  I don't use chokes.  Just the toroid alone currently.

Conventionally I would think it would step down the voltage yet it shows the same voltage in as out.   My spikes are ranging between 640 and 680 volts with four similar but not exact toroids.   oh, at 12.5Khz  I've also found 100s of spike volts difference between different mosfets.  The current leader is the 600v, 6A, IRFBC40.

If you can explain this.. well,  I'd be obliged and impressed...
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 22, 2010, 12:34:44 pm
I think i understood your question.

If the secondary is an open circuit or if you leave the least open you will have this kind of spike.

Voltage in the secondary is = to the current induced * secondary reactance

having a load adapted for the impedance transformation you should read the calculated value. If its resistance is lower than that ideal the voltage will be lower.

Voltage is also = to amps * resistance

If you have 100 ohms resistance (load) and 5 amps in the secondary you will see 500 volts.

hope i helped
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2010, 02:34:36 am
Sebosfato,

I understand what you're saying, yet what explains the primary with six times the turns as the secondary with no step down voltage effect from the toroid?  that was the real question, I could have asked it better...
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2010, 05:19:47 am
Voltage must always be measured under load or it has no meaning for just an open secondary. I hope you understand what i mean.

Did you measured amperage?

Are you using any diode on the secondary ?
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 23, 2010, 12:33:59 pm
In the Electronic testing voltage under load is agreed!

However, When you enter into the world of trying to alternate a "molecule" with voltage the goal is preventing any current flow. This is because the voltage is allowed to increase due to no conduction. The voltage applied should be "altered" to perform work,,,,, Only when current flow is "completely" Prohibited these applied voltages can be "digitally" controlled threw the transformer, am amplifying device which is,, "Mirrored" by chokes in speed.

Once the voltage tingles the molecule at the right, Waveform, whatever that may be,, The molecule surrenders and gently comes apart.

Something to think about... A heat pump can consume 3k watts from the electrical Grid. At that same time,,, We know that 3k watts is equal to 10,236 Btu's, thats what the pump is consuming, 10k btu's. However the heat applied to the home is much greater, 40k btu's for example!

Ask yourself,,, How is it possible for a heat pump to consume 10k Btu's, But yet Give back 40k? It is said the heat pump is NOT an overunity device, It simply takes the Heat from the ambient air and applies it inside the home. It's not that the pump is Producing more than it consumes but simply using energy to "Transfer" the heat from the outside ambient air to inside the home.

If this is confusing, Air at 0°F has no heat, where there is available heat in a temp of 1°F.


Much like the water molecule,,, Do not try to force it into going into its gaseous state, Simply ask the molecule to do so, "It is the molecule that will perform when properly ask to do so."

If you can ask the heat in the outside air in the winter to come into your home, Why not ask the water molecule to separate in a language it can understand, which is voltage communication.

I have nothing else to do at this moment,, so I thought id drop in and apply some to this thread..
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2010, 03:02:46 am
Sebosfato,

Thanks for the reply..  this is during load conditions

The load is my 8 x 8" test cell with two positive outer plates gapped as a sandwich about 1/2 mm with a center negative plate.  Voltage  probe at the positive lead after the 25ns diode jumps to 350 volts at .1 amp and peaks and levels off at 650 spike volts at .8 amp with 130 volts off the variac, wide open.  Simple coil driver 555/lm393 pwm is used.   

I know I could understand why the toroid should not step down the voltage if someoine would point me in the right direction.  The base pulse amplitude is 130 volts on the osccope with the 650v spikes.
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2010, 17:05:59 pm


If this is confusing, Air at 0°F has no heat, where there is available heat in a temp of 1°F.
 


I disagree with this statement . There is still heat to be taken from air untill it has reached absolute zero -459 F .

But when its that cold the price to get the heat out is too much .

I also studied AC and heating .

In fat I can setup a control loop with nothing but a thermocouple , an comparator , 2 resistors and a relay .
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2010, 17:32:09 pm
Hi Kickbackemf

i'm not sure.

Is your water distilled?
What is the secondary resistance?
Are you using a diode? (you mention positive and negative)
Is the secondary getting hot?
What wire is used on secondary ? in mm or awg
Any gas on the cell?
How may amps on the primary?
Frequency?
PRimary voltage?
Primary and secondary inductance?

Please answer all this questions as i can valuate whats happening.


If is distilled water could be a kind of resonance or your circuit behaving as open circuit
If the water is distilled and wire is small you may have what i call voltage transformation according to ohms law in the transformer or in the wire.

If you are stepping down the voltage you are stepping up the amperage. And more amps * resistance = voltage.

wait for your answer
 
 
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2010, 23:40:49 pm

i'm not sure.

Is your water distilled?

yep


What is the secondary resistance?

1.1 ohm, primary is 2.2 ohm

Are you using a diode? (you mention positive and negative)

ultrafast diode after donut before outside plates

Is the secondary getting hot?

donut heats after five minutes of over 2 amps at 150v dc pulsed at any frequency, stays cool under one amp at 150dc pulsed, 1/3 lpm by bottle displacement at 2 amp & 150vdc

What wire is used on secondary ? in mm or awg

16 awg silver plated stranded one layer 360 deg

note, 20 awg silver plated stranded as four layer 360 degree primary over that


Any gas on the cell?

see above

How may amps on the primary? 

variable, max voltage is reached at around one amp


Frequency?  12.5khz

PRimary voltage?  150vdc

Primary and secondary inductance?

PI is .7mH

secondary inductance is 17.2mH

Please answer all this questions as i can valuate whats happening.


If is distilled water could be a kind of resonance or your circuit behaving as open circuit
If the water is distilled and wire is small you may have what i call voltage transformation according to ohms law in the transformer or in the wire.

If you are stepping down the voltage you are stepping up the amperage. And more amps * resistance = voltage.

wait for your answer
 
 
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 24, 2010, 23:50:45 pm
Seb,

It may be that and I'm not so sure that regular 50hz type transfomers with regular sinewave inputs should be used to evaluate what happens when you dc pulse a transformer with a diode following it before the load.   

The pulse goes through the donut unchanged yet now with a really nice uniform ringing of about a dozen or so swings before damping.
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 00:14:28 am
Didn't you connected in step up configuration ?

the primary you said have .7mh and secondary 17mh
for obvious reasons as you said it was step dow transformer you should see primary inductance bigger than secondary.

from my calculation you have a 5 transformation factor

because .7 * 5^2 = 17  or ,7*25=17mh
 
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 00:41:50 am
Seb,

I suggested it would step down because the inner secondary has one fifth the turns of the outer primary.

Powered in reverse it doesn't perform worth a damn.  Eats amps with no real gas output.

I wondered when you'd suggest running it the other way.  LOL,   The input and outputs each are 180 degrees from each other across the donut...
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 01:26:14 am
Man is not very clear for me, but it seems that you are driving the transformer in the wrong winding. If you made the 17 mh windings to be the primary you willl see lower voltage on the secondary for sure.

check well that
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 02:07:52 am
OK Seb,

it is not clear for me either and right in front of me.  I just did as you suggested so I wouldn't mislead on a public forum.  I connected the inner primary to the pwm and the outer secondary to the diode.  I used four different wire combinations for input and output wires, switching positive and negative on this donut.  They all failed compared to the wrong way around, so to speak..

The step up configurations were all crap, lower spikes, sucked amps, no step up effect and little gas. 

Again, as I said, the donut powered with the inner single layer secondary and four layer outer primary has much better gas, doesn't suck amps and runs without much effort compared to the other way around.

I just did it again to be sure.

maybe this is too simple and I'm looking over it...
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 04:18:03 am
man primary is where you input electrical energy

What do you want?  the highest possible voltage ? step up voltage?

If is that what you want, in this case you need to use the winding with less inductance or.7mh as you said  like a primary. and the other as a secondary.

"Again, as I said, the donut powered with the inner single layer secondary and four layer outer primary has much better gas, doesn't suck amps and runs without much effort compared to the other way around."
it is quite not clear

Please be clear or i can't do much for you ok
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 21:29:02 pm
S,

to be clear, this is a four inch toroid, with a primary winding (which in this case is wound around the toroid 360 degrees as four layers, (over a secondary winding of one layer wound 360 degrees).  the primary accepts power from the source at 150vdc, pulsed at 12.5kz, at .5 amp.   The inner seconday connects to the diode and on to the plate.

As you can see the primary is larger than the secondary yet there is no step down effect.   My puzzle question was and still is, why does it not step down the voltage measured at the plates.  No big deal it just is something I wanted to know and understand.

no need to reply with more questions for me, I'll give it a break...

Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 25, 2010, 22:57:05 pm

Man So you are saying that you can maintain 600v across your plates with only 75watts ok very nice.
Can you measure the secondary current?
Sorry if i made many questions, was just to understand well what is happening there.
If you can, make a video and or photos of your setup.

Regards
Title: To kickbackemf
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2016, 19:30:46 pm
Hey kickback did you found the answer?

i think i may have found it...
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2016, 21:32:56 pm
No real answer yet.  I've been reading about the negative resistance effect.  That's when I tried one and it brought voltage up and amps down so I was quite curious.

I've read some more yet I am interested in what you've found.  The 650v was with RO water.  My well water won't allow over $250v and doesn't make gas.

Do you mean secondary current next to the cell?  It is 15ma next to the cells.

kb

Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 11, 2016, 23:37:39 pm
Very nice.. we started talking about it 6 years ago..

i was thinking that maybe your secondary gives a higher voltage because your pulsing ckt allow the primary to collapse...maybe... i was thinking about ...

What is the resistance of your cells? how many in series?

i dont remember welll

is it a full bridge rectified? you still use this transformer? have?


Nice =^D
Title: Re: to Sebofato
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 13, 2016, 16:52:35 pm
seb,

I came across a couple dozen 3/4 inch x 4 inch ss centrifuge tubes so I made a set of 10 cells.  They are mild steel for stainless, annealed and passivated.    I wanted to observe the effect of 4-6 pounds of pressure on the production of gas on 10 cells.  It is interesting to see the system voltage climb and the amperage drop as you add cells in series.  Now when I crank up the voltage the meter slowly sweeps up to the maximum while I charge the system.

Anyone with observations to share regarding adding pressure to the systems would be welcomed to jump in here....

kb