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Projects by members => Projects by members => CrazyEwok => Topic started by: CrazyEwok on December 16, 2009, 04:25:19 am

Title: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 04:25:19 am
Well been posting here for a little while now and i though that i would post some details on my plan.

Anyone who read my guff on "ou".com would know I rescently had a smoker destroy more than a small portion of my lungs... My project, about a grand worth of equipment and a meter in diameter in my roof. Good news is i am all done on repairs to the roof and replacing the tools is coming along nicely.

As for my project...
Before the demise of my previous work i was experimenting with a few things on a tube cell array. This is what i have come up with;
Test cell of 7 set of SS 316L tubes at 140mm ea. Gap between inner and outter tube is approx 1mm. Bottom of the outter tube has a semi circle cut on opposite sides, This is to allow waterflow from the bottom. These are set out and connected in paralel inside the old PVC piping. Nothing new. Note - Spacing between the sets must exceed 1cm from all other sets. There is a brace twards the top of the sets to hold the them in place, This is also where the connection to the out tubes will take place.
At the base a plastic disc will be set to create a water tight chamber. Holes cut to snugly fit the inner tube in then sealed so no water can pass. Inner tubes to be sead approx 2-3cm from base with a water tight sealant to allow room to make the connection to the inner tubes from under neeth.

Process:
With this all set out and only using 12 - 14.8v (car voltages) at a max of 15 amp (aiming for 10amp) i intend to mark out and post HHO output with these variables. This i hope will help people in their larger builds.
Straight dc from the battery :- 14.8v & 12v @ 10amp and at 15amp (control numbers)
Pulsed using a modified PWM :- Still only using 14.8v & 12v with different duty cycles and possibly different frequencies (budget dependant)
HV conversion :- Boosting the voltage up to 100kv difference in a stepped manner also cycling through different duty cycles and frequencies (dielectric breakdown of water occurs at ~70Kv per mm, avalanche effect should start at ~80-85Kv per mm) This will wipe out most of my Amps by converting them into Volts.
If the HV field application shows promise i will further my experiments into this idea with the addition of using 1mm thick fibre optic strands as the seal at the bottom of my cell and "fireing" laser lights into the cell directly to attempt to "flood" the field with excess electrons.
Other advancements considered have been an ultra this layer of teflon on the reactive sides of the tubes to prevent electron transfer between the plates and the water, The hope here is if a chain of diodes can maintain the massive voltage field to accelerate the electrons in it to do the work then the input energy would only be the laser and small bursts to maintain any losses in field strength.

With the small scale of my experiment i should be able to eliminate any useless ideas, also i may be able to illuminate possible ways to increase the production of current cells.

Will update as i proceed...


Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 04:29:20 am
Sounds like a great project Ewok
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 09:43:47 am
Well been posting here for a little while now and i though that i would post some details on my plan.

Anyone who read my guff on "ou".com would know I rescently had a smoker destroy more than a small portion of my lungs... My project, about a grand worth of equipment and a meter in diameter in my roof. Good news is i am all done on repairs to the roof and replacing the tools is coming along nicely.

As for my project...
Before the demise of my previous work i was experimenting with a few things on a tube cell array. This is what i have come up with;
Test cell of 7 set of SS 316L tubes at 140mm ea. Gap between inner and outter tube is approx 1mm. Bottom of the outter tube has a semi circle cut on opposite sides, This is to allow waterflow from the bottom. These are set out and connected in paralel inside the old PVC piping. Nothing new. Note - Spacing between the sets must exceed 1cm from all other sets. There is a brace twards the top of the sets to hold the them in place, This is also where the connection to the out tubes will take place.
At the base a plastic disc will be set to create a water tight chamber. Holes cut to snugly fit the inner tube in then sealed so no water can pass. Inner tubes to be sead approx 2-3cm from base with a water tight sealant to allow room to make the connection to the inner tubes from under neeth.

Process:
With this all set out and only using 12 - 14.8v (car voltages) at a max of 15 amp (aiming for 10amp) i intend to mark out and post HHO output with these variables. This i hope will help people in their larger builds.
Straight dc from the battery :- 14.8v & 12v @ 10amp and at 15amp (control numbers)
Pulsed using a modified PWM :- Still only using 14.8v & 12v with different duty cycles and possibly different frequencies (budget dependant)
HV conversion :- Boosting the voltage up to 100kv difference in a stepped manner also cycling through different duty cycles and frequencies (dielectric breakdown of water occurs at ~70Kv per mm, avalanche effect should start at ~80-85Kv per mm) This will wipe out most of my Amps by converting them into Volts.
If the HV field application shows promise i will further my experiments into this idea with the addition of using 1mm thick fibre optic strands as the seal at the bottom of my cell and "fireing" laser lights into the cell directly to attempt to "flood" the field with excess electrons.
Other advancements considered have been an ultra this layer of teflon on the reactive sides of the tubes to prevent electron transfer between the plates and the water, The hope here is if a chain of diodes can maintain the massive voltage field to accelerate the electrons in it to do the work then the input energy would only be the laser and small bursts to maintain any losses in field strength.

With the small scale of my experiment i should be able to eliminate any useless ideas, also i may be able to illuminate possible ways to increase the production of current cells.

Will update as i proceed...

Nice to hear that you are back in business, Ewok.
Keep writing your progress. We like to read it!

My personal opinion is that only HV will not work.
My theory is that you need some amps flowing to align the watermolecules and then hit it with HV.
That way we should we able to ring some molecules.

Steve





Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2010, 06:33:41 am
As i have started to be active with posting again i better update on this.

Since initial post my trusted electronics shop has managed to order in the wrong kit 3 times... (note to everyone on this site if the new guy stuff up your order talk to the manager, don't give him another chance...) These kits come in via sea and has items in them not stocked on the shelf... sigh

I have gone through 3x trials of the HV diode set up, i am left with some serious arcing or blown diodes... but still pushing along.

I do have some interesting points to contribute though. HHO gas has a higher dielectric breakdown point than air itself, this is also dependant on the quality of the water. (do not put tap water in greater than 60kv/mm, you will need to replace your cell, or at min the electrodes) I have been advised by "Anonomys" not to bother with the coating on the electrodes, with this thought i am looking into the price of teflon coating closely. I have also been enquiring with local powder coaters and electrical engineers as to alternatives. Seems that 100kv is an unusual request !!! :o

Also i am looking into new possible HV power supplies as my parter has voiced her concerns with my Tesla coil array. At some point she researched it and saw all those pretty discharge photo's and got concerned... ATM i am considering something like the Ignition coil set up with some modifacations. Anyone with any ideas would be welcome, note that large amounts of transformers or 1 large one are out (as per the Tesla Coil setup).

HHO Production has been good, nothing to report on amounts as even at 15 V there was almost 0 production, and PWM is still in the process. To those about to correct me or to advise electrolyte adding, I am using home distilled filtered rain water. As its composition is not set it is also extremely non conductive (till you hit about 70kv as expected then it isn't all that spectacular)...

More to Follow...
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 14, 2010, 10:23:54 am
Thank you for the update Ewok  ;)
Welcome to the club of blowing up components and the Inventor club of finding 1000 ways that will not work as we hoped for..... ;)

I can understand your partner feelings about a Tsla coil setup too....

You be carefull.

Steve
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2010, 07:19:24 am
Well as an update i have to relocate outside as the kids were caught playing with the min VDG machine and zapping each other with static electricity... So with this in mind (and the winter season upon my country) progress is slow...

More to come as i need to verify some findings that destroyed my "Teslar coil" generator.
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2010, 11:28:12 am
Well as an update i have to relocate outside as the kids were caught playing with the min VDG machine and zapping each other with static electricity... So with this in mind (and the winter season upon my country) progress is slow...

More to come as i need to verify some findings that destroyed my "Teslar coil" generator.

Ok, man. Keep yr kids save at all time....
However, playing with a VDG is fun for them as well.... ;)


Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2010, 06:27:38 am
Ok hit a small snag... or could be a blessing in diguise. Cell works nicely. Not done any actual production testing but phenomenon and a theory that you can all disect rip apart and then tell me what has really happened.
Ok set up is the same as described above and there is a whopping HV converter coutesy of an electronics nut friend of mine, he claim max out put at about 150k volts, i think its closer to 110kv maybe 105kv, still far more than i need!!! hook the cell up nice steady production for about 30secs, then there is like a wave where production goes up about 5 fold (caught me by surprise the first time!!!) then nothing for a few secs.
Now the first few times we completely destroyed some Diodes (and HV diode arrays). I have been informed that i will be paying for those and it was cause by BEMF. Using his and my observations and knowledge of what is happening we have come up with the following. The steady production is the plates charging and charging with the  amount of leakage causing the production. Then when the tubes/water can no longer hold anymore charge there is a cascade of power that flows from one to the other (massive flow of power is where my "5x" production came from) now the then nothing is the plates recharging to cycle again. I got my avalanche effect in the bag.

Now to make this a serious find i need to get atleast 5 LPM from no more than 120 watts right? From some improvements and some possible modifactions i feel i can blow this number out of the water with no electrolyte. Well that is the current standing anyway.
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2010, 09:23:57 am
Ewok,

You would become a hero if you could do 5lpm at 150watts...:-)


Steve
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2010, 09:44:05 am
did say "havn't" measured!!!
5 litres maybe getting over excited but why aim for the ceiling when the moon is so much bigger!!!!
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2010, 12:49:53 pm
did say "havn't" measured!!!
5 litres maybe getting over excited but why aim for the ceiling when the moon is so much bigger!!!!
[/quote


LOL, amen.
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2010, 18:08:13 pm
Ok hit a small snag... or could be a blessing in diguise. Cell works nicely. Not done any actual production testing but phenomenon and a theory that you can all disect rip apart and then tell me what has really happened.
Ok set up is the same as described above and there is a whopping HV converter coutesy of an electronics nut friend of mine, he claim max out put at about 150k volts, i think its closer to 110kv maybe 105kv, still far more than i need!!! hook the cell up nice steady production for about 30secs, then there is like a wave where production goes up about 5 fold (caught me by surprise the first time!!!) then nothing for a few secs.
Now the first few times we completely destroyed some Diodes (and HV diode arrays). I have been informed that i will be paying for those and it was cause by BEMF. Using his and my observations and knowledge of what is happening we have come up with the following. The steady production is the plates charging and charging with the  amount of leakage causing the production. Then when the tubes/water can no longer hold anymore charge there is a cascade of power that flows from one to the other (massive flow of power is where my "5x" production came from) now the then nothing is the plates recharging to cycle again. I got my avalanche effect in the bag.

Now to make this a serious find i need to get atleast 5 LPM from no more than 120 watts right? From some improvements and some possible modifactions i feel i can blow this number out of the water with no electrolyte. Well that is the current standing anyway.

Hey sounds fantastic! keep going!!
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 14, 2010, 07:02:19 am
Update time again,
Cell is on hold as i am trying to design my power supply. So far i have a variable voltage "Tesla coil" that has a nice output but is not as stable as i hoped. On top of that i need some HV diodes. Now that voltage i need we are talking $30 to construct it and there is no guarentee that it will work. Someone has pointed me toward Vaccuum tube designs and has suggested that i may not need to make them a vaccuum to work in my application... Also there have been suggestions of collecting the fly back to "re-pump" back into the power supply. Nice idea but we'll see. Right now i have found some interesting things happen when you use inductors connected to the plates of your cell... but you need the output in waves to use the "tank circuit" effect :)
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2010, 06:50:19 am
I won't bore you all with the woes of my HV power supply build instead Just noting down an idea for furtherment on my project. I read somewhere that the more intense the electric field the easier it is for current to flow. This intrigued me to the point of the below possible upgrade to my cell design.
 
Plates set out in at I+I+~~-I-I configuration where the "I" is a coating of HDPVC or other such high electrical resistant polymer (looking in the 400kv/mm range) then the outter "+" & "-" are the likes of a HV Capaciter (simply 2 plates connected via vacuum tube, coil, vacuum tube setup then pulse the coil with a magnetic field creating a high voltage displacement and using the vacuum tubes as a low tech diode) This creates a stable HV field that "should" have almost no degredation (much like a charged capacitor) Then the "+~~-" is connected as a step-down transformer converting the power supply into as much amps as can be used before it won't flow through the water ("~" is water).
 
As the HV field will still have some degredation it will need mild maintenance, but aslong as the field strength is about (or exceeding) 100kv/mm the process should be extremely efficient.
 
As usual please pull my theory apart and explain to me why this won't work. But first i am going to remind you that high voltage electric field speed up the movement of the electrons in their field.
 
(I am also working on other such projects using the same theory but they are not HHO related and thus not going to be listed here unless they become relevant)
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2010, 09:57:31 am
so the idea is to have the electrolysis cell within a separate high strength constant static electric field so that the amps flow through the water easier?


the +I+ part and the -I- of the cell will have electrical repulsion, and the electric field from the outer plates wont travel through the inner plates? unless maybe the inner plates had slots or holes in them


i suggest this concept of configuration, symbols are the same as yours, the + side and - side might be 6"x6" for example, with 1"x6" strips, alternating high voltage and low voltage, where the high voltages are insulated from the water gap, while the low voltages are bare, and the water gap may be 1/8th inch or so


+HVI~~~LV-
+LV~~~IHV-
+HVI~~~LV-
+LV~~~IHV-
+HVI~~~LV-
+LV~~~IHV-


here you have the high voltage electric field zig-zagging across the water gap, giving your theoretical boost to current flow, as the current flow zig-zags between the low voltage plates


it might not work, but i'd like to see if that theory has any merit, science is all about testing your hypothesis
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2010, 07:40:45 am
I will keep your suggestion in mind but i am hoping that with the voltage differences (150kv for the HV and 1-2v on the electrodes) that repulsion won't be an issue (well it is a factor but not an issue!!!)
 
 
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2010, 10:08:07 am
the electric field will not travel through the plate, you can't overlap them
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 29, 2010, 07:29:30 am
i hope the field doesn't go through the plate. i hope the repulsion/attraction effect works as i theorise it will.
If your not following ask and i will elaborate.
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 13, 2010, 07:22:03 am
I have been thinking over and over your statement of the electric field not traveling through the plate. While this, i'm sure, is an electronics given then why is it not implemented into our current set up and step down generators? Also from memory i believe that the plate absorbs the field? so if i have a field that can not arc to a charged plate then the electrons will be effected by the field (attract repulsed dependant on charge) much like magnetic fields. Just a physics thing i remember (i have been known to get these things wrong but it is only a proposed upgrade). There is nothing to update atm as i have been working some serious hours lately. Will try to fit some work in on the weekend.
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 08, 2010, 07:22:45 am
Update,
Tried a few alterations to my cell construction and to the transformer. All i managed to do was burn out 3 bench top power supplies and short my hand wound transformer. No improvements on my HHO production.
As a note to others the electrical tape bought at hardware stores, though it says PVC, it has impurities in it. I estimate approx 5-15kv per MM before it breaks down. Don't count on it doing the 400KV per mm that PVC is meant to withstand. Mind you 5KV per mm is more than enough when your dealing with household electrics. So i guess its one of those design flaw acceptable losses...
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on September 16, 2010, 07:11:03 am
This alone will not work, it has the desired effect, but there is follow on effects, eg arcing inbetween your plates. The HV has one of 2 effects, causes arcing in the reaction area i theorise that it causes the electron "jump" in the shortened gap between the gasses once they form, hence spark and no more reaction chamber. The second effect is nothing, the HV has a point where it is non-effective on the cell, i don't have the equipment to tell you the field strength but its around the 70kv mark.
 
This idea may be able to be used in an alternate way perhaps but not in this manner.
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 17, 2010, 15:10:36 pm
Something keep sdrawing me back to this. Its rolling around and around and i came to this theory,
Stans didn't say anything cryptic. Infact he tells you simply things that are already known but explains them in a way that i think misleads everyone. His whole setup is a large HV tank circuit. His inductors are used to "pump" (for lack of a better word) the voltage up to the KV point of dielectric breakdown. Yes yes we covered this, then you have 2 overcharging plates that, at worst case, arc over and ignite your generated gas, WRONG!!! if the High Voltage is only obtainable in the circuit at "circuit resonance" (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_6/2.html (http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_2/chpt_6/2.html)) then as the capacitance changes in the cell the frequency also has to change to match the point of resonance. Thus the applied voltage goes down, down, down and no over arcing. FANTASTIC ITS CRACKED!!! nope sorry, his true genius is his bottom variable inductor, i am guessing this is adjusted or is used to adjust the resonance point (the inductance could be used as a signal?!? to adjust the frequency up and down??? to match resonance) If figured out this could explain alot and make replication easy and adjustable to your own aplications. His frequency of 66khz would of been for his set up, matching the inductance to the capacitance to push the applied voltage on the cell acting as a capacitor, as the capacitance changes you need to adjust the frequency to match the new capacitance. His quote about letting the water "recover" could simply mean allowing the water to push the gas out to "reset" the capacitence. I put this forward as my theory on Stans meaning to his invention and how he explains it. All I need is a way to measure capacitance of my test cell. Find the value of used inductors, do the equation and blamo back to blowing up desktop power supplies.
 
Note to everyone wanting to know about the work electric fields do, listen to his lecture he points out some already known facts.
1. electric field increase the speed of moving electrons with-in the field.
2. electric fields have some magnetic properties (like fields repulse, opposites attract, fields can travel down some connected materials etc etc)
 
 
Now disect what i have said and tell me why i am wrong please!!!
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 17, 2010, 18:21:14 pm
You are right Crazyewok,


I also think is about this. however not exactly the way you said. Stan used the electric field to break the water yes. But before this he used the electric field to generate enormous amounts of electrical energy.


By this i mean. Take for example 40kv at 1ma. If you could amplify this 1ma to 1 amp using only the fields, you would get 40kw of electrical power.


Than he ingeniously used also the heat of the ambient to run his engines. And made it in a very cleaver way using water to convert heat into expansion. 


Do you remember Thermal heat he talked about?


 I think that he made this to use voltage only to drive his transformer.


The spark gaps have a capacitor in parallel making of it two tank circuits tuned and coupled magnetically.


Than the diodes acts as switches allowing only the field to be applied, however as the reverse current of the diodes are quite small he made the electrons on the wire to move to the holes on the tank. The way i draw one tank is pushing and the other is pulling the electrons alternately on each cycle.


I'm very busy now studying for the university but within one month i want to build this and check my theory.


I'm saying that he din't used only h2 to run the engine probably just a little, but ambient thermal heat, expanded by the water incompressibility and heat capacity proprieties.


Important is water temperature to extract the energy.


Probably he created only hot steam using a dc "ions acceleration arc" under water. using the same principle that electric fields accelerates electrons. Some h2 is consequence however you get great deal of heat. I'm telling since long time that i was able with dc to boil 4 liters of water on 600w 200v... This is way less energy than is required using heat. 
Title: Re: The Ewok Method
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 06, 2011, 06:10:38 am
Not where i was going Seb but something that maybe of note and looking into :)
 
Ok i have my parts and my meter (3rd one now, to anyone still reading don't have kids the term "no" means little).
 
now the math, I have looked through Stans notes/patents/videos etc etc. I have a project in the works now, 1 set of 2x SS316L tubes approx 4in that have a 1mm gap when one is inserted into the other. They have approx the same surface area on their facing sides. i will measure capacitance and resistance with only and air gap, then measure it again once it is submerged in water. Using these number I intend to create a LCR circuit at resonance. utilizing the numbers and adjusting the frequency according to estimated changes while production is happening to attempt to maintain resonance. If this shows promise i will attempt to do the math to increase the efficientcy of this method.
As per usual i will post any findings.