# Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

## Projects by members => Projects by members => Steve => Topic started by: Steve on December 11, 2009, 16:52:11 pm

Title: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 16:52:11 pm
Hi folks,

Here a small update.
I have a working resonating setup with 2 tubes, like Sebosfato showed us, but a bit more simplified.
It resonates  at 136khz and both tubes are making gas.
When the resonance is gone, so also the production....Hmmmmm where did i hear that before.
Tried some other coils and caps....
Voltage peaks across the tube is around 120Vp with 12V / 1A  input in the circuit.

This is very funny stuff.....
Need to do some thinking on this and bring it to a KV level, somehow.

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 17:33:47 pm
use copper cables with a higher diameter and a larger inductor.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 18:28:49 pm

The good thing about resonance splitting is that you can add more tubes or plates to get more gas without using more amps!
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 19:47:40 pm
Try to vary and lower the duty cycle.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 19:48:54 pm
Very nice steve that you tried

Is all about being able to recirculate the current.

I discovered that the voltage will be multiplied by the factor of the Q or by also the recirculating current * by the reactance of the coil.
and also that the complex impedance i discovered is equivalent to the parallel impedance the circuit develops while recirculating and accumulating energy however I also discovered that it depends matters if you want to use the source of energy in series or parallel than if you just consider you may find the best configuration the one i explained is easy to understand but there is a quite easy other way to go with simple calculation and construction. Is all up to you now you just need to find the energy source to make the system works.

I already build a big inductor to try around this 7kg of copper about 50mH and voltage really build up a lot. However Resonance is just the trick to be able to recirculate energy.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 21:13:53 pm
Thanks you all... :)

I will make some adjustments and continue to play with this.
Sebos might have a good point here. Recycling of energy is possible.
I see it here on my desk.

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 22:04:47 pm
@steve
When you have resonance, you could change the water gap size and see what happens to voltage. Also adjust the signals on this new gap. By changing the gap, you can now also tune in on the choke for max. potential, right? You could now test your choke bandwidth for the best gap size.

I'm building a small adjustable plate cell right now for my VIC setup.

br,
webmug

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 22:46:37 pm
@steve
When you have resonance, you could change the water gap size and see what happens to voltage. Also adjust the signals on this new gap. By changing the gap, you can now also tune in on the choke for max. potential, right? You could now test your choke bandwidth for the best gap size.

I'm building a small adjustable plate cell right now for my VIC setup.

br,
webmug

Hmmm, sadly enough i run with 2 sets of tubes.
Maybe i can raise the inner tube and see what that does...

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 23:11:05 pm
"The phenomena that the spacing between two objects is related to the wavelength of a physical motion between the two objects is utilized herein. A relatively small increase in amplitude will yield an output several magnitudes greater when the motion of the water molecule is moving to and fro with a repetition rate to match the resonant length of the spacing between the pair of exciters. "

Only works on watergap size. Plate / tube size doesn't matter.

br,
webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2009, 00:56:42 am
So what is different with this compared to all the other things you tried Steve .

What made this work and not the rest ?

Random cell tube and random chokes and you just toggled the frequency untill you saw a peak in voltage wich = gas production .

If that is the case then I believe you have a working Meyers method or w/e we should call it , no matter the gas output , Stan never said there was more gas than electrolysis being produced , only that it wasnt a self-destructing process .

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2009, 07:10:39 am
So what is different with this compared to all the other things you tried Steve .

no matter the gas output , Stan never said there was more gas than electrolysis being produced , only that it wasnt a self-destructing process .

Hi Dankie what you mean by self destructing ?

However i do believe meyer had more than 100 times more gas output than the related electrical energy inputed on the system.

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2009, 10:36:19 am
So what is different with this compared to all the other things you tried Steve .

What made this work and not the rest ?

Random cell tube and random chokes and you just toggled the frequency until you saw a peak in voltage which = gas production .

If that is the case then I believe you have a working Meyers method or w/e we should call it , no matter the gas output , Stan never said there was more gas than electrolysis being produced , only that it wasn't a self-destructing process .

Actually, its NOT random coils and capacitors.
Hope to present the math soon.

I agree that this is close to SM setup.
My goal / end theory is that Stan indeed needed some amps.
I mean like 0.5 amps in my case. That aligns the water molecules.
Then you hit the water with a voltage spike like at least 1500V to make them ringing.

In meantime, you can recycle inputpower as well.
You must know that in a parallel RLC circuit, the charge is flowing from cap to coil and backwards.
You can achieve that with one shot of power and take the power off the circuit.
The resonance keeps on going, till it dies because of leakage.
So, if you can achieve resonance with a wfc in between it, count out your provide....

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2009, 11:10:12 am
in the first post you talk about 120VDC from 12V input so that must be a series resonant circuit. now it's a parallel circuit?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2009, 14:51:32 pm
Great experiment Steve! Yes, it is said that resonance is the bouncing of something from cap to coil but, I'm not so sure that is accurate. If it is, then it is not explained very well. Even though the water cap and coils make an LC circuit, there is still distributed capacitance and inductance throughout the entire circuit. And then we have several different types of resonance, even with just a coil. The way I imagine it is, the entire circuit should be seen as an RLC network that can be resonated in either parallel or series which is dependent on the frequency of the signal. The coils can resonate without the water cap just fine for this very reason. Adding the water cap will only change the parameters of the circuit and you will need to find where the resonant frequencies have shifted too. I am curious, does just your hand being close to the coil or RLC circuit affect the resonance in any way?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 12, 2009, 17:25:12 pm
Getting your hand close wont change very little or about anything however if you touch the coil you will have a change in capacitance however is too dangerous to touch you can get hurt like me. However note that a permanent magnet will change the flux and you can get more voltage output at least here it happens with a certain coil i have. tryout steve. Don't touch the coils with the system turned on is very dangerous there are Kwatts of power there recirculating i arrived at 10kv 5 amps witch is 50kwatts... Turn it off and you will see how much heat is dissipated on the capacitors and coil. The cell do not produce heat only hydrogen and oxygen.

If you got any other nice results contact me i would like to know.

good luck my friends i like to see the interest of all of you, you are going be the first soldiers of the future.

Believe in me, because i believe in anything
Because I want to be someone who believes
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 16:06:27 pm
Hi college's in HHO crime.

Because i do love you all and because i believe in sharing technology and because i believe i cannot change the world on my own, is here my first step schematic with who i made resonance in a circuit with a waterfuell included.
:) ;) ;)

The second drawing is a schematic done with a VIC like setup which also ran in resonance.

I think you all have some of these components in you house and making a replication should be pretty easy to do.

Steve

Ps.

This double tube setup idea came from 3 people. All members of this great forum.
They are: Electrojolt, Jose and Sebosfato. They all had and shared with me this idea seperatly from eachother.... ;)
Thank you guys!
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 16:18:42 pm
So what is the purpose of that capacitor , the RLC is calculated for that caapacitor ?

What  is the  purpose of the d3 diode , is this your 'recirculating current' ?

All in all great creativity with the meyers modifications and such , I can 'almost' understand whats happening .
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 16:26:09 pm
So what is the purpose of that capacitor , the RLC is calculated for that caapacitor ?

What  is the  purpose of the d3 diode , is this your 'recirculating current' ?

All in all great creativity with the meyers modifications and such .
The diode by the powersupply is not really needed with my current PS, but some will need it.
C is the capacitor needed for the resonance, Dankie.
The 2 tubesets are the R in the RLC. Of course they also have some capacitance, but they are mainly very leaking and the act as resistor, such as Stan also said.

I think you can make this work without a capacitor, but then you must use a big Bifilair coil, which will take the place of the capacitor in my schematic.

The voltage across the tubes are pretty high compared with plain electrolysis.
I measure now a 150V Peak and that must go to KV's.

Join in, Dankie. Make something nice and tell us what you measure.

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 16:27:39 pm
you're welcome steve i can say that this is the first step understanding it and what is resonance all about for all applications. Remember the energy flow from capacitor to the inductor and than it reverse direction and come back to the capacitor. This is what i mean by recirculating current or electric field.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 16:47:46 pm
you're welcome steve i can say that this is the first step understanding it and what is resonance all about for all applications. Remember the energy flow from capacitor to the inductor and than it reverse direction and come back to the capacitor. This is what i mean by recirculating current or electric field.

Hi Sebos,

Yes, you are right. This is the first step. It works. You and i know that.

Steve

Ps..

Here the picture of my sweet little double coil...2 times 2.4mH
Works like a charm.
Came out a powersupply from an old server... :)
Yes, the financial crisis hit my pocket too.... ???

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 17:10:59 pm
Sorry for taking so much time , I tried to make a product with all my circuits on it but its just too expensive and not enough interest from the public .

Its not like you guys absotutely needed it anyways .

plz ask further questions to my pm box.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 17:43:38 pm
Here a circuit simulator example of the first circuit, as stevie said i did disregard the tube-capacitor.

\$ 1 5.0E-6 10.20027730826997 50 5.0 50
R 80 192 80 256 0 0 40.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 80 192 80 32 0
w 80 32 400 32 0
w 400 32 400 64 0
w 400 64 320 64 0
w 400 64 480 64 0
w 480 64 480 80 0
w 320 64 320 80 0
l 320 80 320 256 0 0.0024 0.08272617691301952
l 480 80 480 144 0 0.0024 -0.08272525742922969
c 480 144 480 208 0 4.7E-8 -8.165649264514485
w 320 256 320 304 0
w 320 304 480 304 0
R 272 336 224 336 0 2 10000.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 272 336 352 336 0
f 384 352 448 352 0 1.5
w 448 336 480 304 0
w 384 352 352 336 0
g 448 368 448 400 0
r 480 208 528 208 0 5.0
r 560 208 592 208 0 5.0
w 592 208 640 208 0
w 640 208 640 304 0
w 640 304 480 304 0
d 528 208 528 160 1 0.805904783
w 528 160 592 160 0
w 592 160 592 208 0
w 560 208 560 256 0
d 560 256 480 256 1 0.805904783
w 480 256 480 208 0

the resistor values and frequency is not steves. maybe it helps someone to see it all clearly drawn with the components.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 19:27:07 pm
So what is the purpose of that capacitor , the RLC is calculated for that caapacitor ?

What  is the  purpose of the d3 diode , is this your 'recirculating current' ?

All in all great creativity with the meyers modifications and such .
The diode by the powersupply is not really needed with my current PS, but some will need it.
C is the capacitor needed for the resonance, Dankie.
The 2 tubesets are the R in the RLC. Of course they also have some capacitance, but they are mainly very leaking and the act as resistor, such as Stan also said.

I think you can make this work without a capacitor, but then you must use a big Bifilair coil, which will take the place of the capacitor in my schematic.

The voltage across the tubes are pretty high compared with plain electrolysis.
I measure now a 150V Peak and that must go to KV's.

Join in, Dankie. Make something nice and tell us what you measure.

Steve

Hey Steve,
are you thinking now of building a adjustable plates cell? Make smaller gap (lower resistance), then you would have more volts I guess. ::)  Or build a bigger HV power-supply (more current used).

More questions:
What's your gap-size right now, are the two tubes identical ?
How many amps are you consuming (in mAmps range...) ?
Are you seeing more,less or the same gas production, when electrolysis with same amps is used?

Thanks!

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 13, 2009, 19:37:36 pm
Steve , if it works or  not I thank you for your sense of teamwok and openness.

I think theres a catch that I do not see , nothing is too good to be true .

I will continue with my ideas of resonating tubes and go from there , I will wait for confirmation on this before .
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 14:33:33 pm
Hi steve,

what is the sine wave amplitude on the capacitor when you are having 120v accross each cell?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 15:27:41 pm
steve,

your second drawing with the idea of a vic incorperated...   im looking at maybe a different approach for the power supply and pulsing..

im looking to use a variac powering a vic supplying the chokes...  stan shows the use of a scr on the positive side of the supply..    and he connect strait to ground... i know  we have spoke about the scr not being able to turn off when being applied to chokes, but what about the scr being applied to a vic...would the charging of the toroidal reach a point where current stops in the primary? due to the fact that this circuit is condensing electrons to the back side of d4... then since you use the coil to build a isolated load then once the scr switches off the toroid will collapse and provide a pulse to the circuit.??
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 16:44:26 pm
Stan used a variac only to control the speed of the motor that drove his alternator setup. And when he was inputing more voltage to be able to higher the voltage output because of the high impedance but when you have it set up well you can actually go for 12v you better to use a high amperage diode straight from the 12v positive with a choke in series before the primary that has the same inductance of the primary of your input transformer. I use irfp250 diodes with 200nf snubber connected from source to drain. This makes it work very cold. Try using 3 times more turns for the secondary and connect it in series with your choke and capacitor and drive it to resonance. You have to use iron powder core Note that the secondary wire and chokes should be thick. You want a good coupling here.

You have to become a genius to follow and understand the genius simplicity.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 18:15:33 pm
I actually have all components except the diodes. 0,1µF 1000V cap, bifilar 1,16mH coil, tubes probably.
Since i'd be very surprised if steve's little coils would survive more than a few watts i guess it's save to use 1000V/1A diodes?

did you use a sine wave or square wave?

also excel sheet for calculation with circuit 1. adjust orange boxes.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 19:06:52 pm
USE 20 OF THEM
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 19:15:33 pm
do you think there will be 20kV?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 20:59:06 pm

As far as i can see it will not even be a half kW.

I can explain some, but not all yet... When you split by Volt, there is close to no current. The resonance is a kind of cold fusion in a self splitting reaction.
A bit current will be measured, but more like milliamp @ with the Volt you have designed the circuit for.

This is the needle in the haystack "we" are looking for.

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 22:15:32 pm
what resonance is everybody talking about by the way? i only see a series resonant circuit, but having this in resonance is kinda useless  ???
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 22:44:38 pm
I mean in parallel because of the current... you could use mosfets internal diodes too aways on condition.

Is a resonant circuit you are right.

A resonant circuit develops high voltage accordingly to the recirculating current multiplied by the inductive reactance. Thats why stan said '' i'm going to use 4 amps, big deal'' where about power consumption he was giving us the parameters of the circuit because he said 40 watts so you have a series resistance of about 2,5 because 4^2 =16*2,5= 40 watts this is the dissipated power on the coils and capacitors and also water itself . He also repeat continuously restrict amps and let the voltage take over in a dead short condition. Isn't it the same as A resonant circuit develops high voltage accordingly to the recirculating current multiplied by the inductive reactance.  Lets say one have at 10khz an impedance of 10.000 and have 4 amps recirculating you will have 40kv or about 160kwatts of recirculating power. If the series resistance is = to 2,5 you are consuming only 40 watts. With no losses on transistor and the transformer and internal losses of the battery. So you can say if you got about 90% efficient input circuit you will consume about 45watts.

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 14, 2009, 23:07:56 pm
how would there be any resonance in steve's circuit? which impedances would match? i calculated it through a few times, always without plausible results.

XL of the left path == (XL + Xc) of the right path?
that's never the case
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 15, 2009, 11:59:34 am
Hi all,

I will reply to you all, as soon as i  find a moment.....My job is eating all my time at the moment.

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 12:52:32 pm
Here a circuit simulator example of the first circuit, as stevie said i did disregard the tube-capacitor.

\$ 1 5.0E-6 10.20027730826997 50 5.0 50
R 80 192 80 256 0 0 40.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 80 192 80 32 0
w 80 32 400 32 0
w 400 32 400 64 0
w 400 64 320 64 0
w 400 64 480 64 0
w 480 64 480 80 0
w 320 64 320 80 0
l 320 80 320 256 0 0.0024 0.08272617691301952
l 480 80 480 144 0 0.0024 -0.08272525742922969
c 480 144 480 208 0 4.7E-8 -8.165649264514485
w 320 256 320 304 0
w 320 304 480 304 0
R 272 336 224 336 0 2 10000.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 272 336 352 336 0
f 384 352 448 352 0 1.5
w 448 336 480 304 0
w 384 352 352 336 0
g 448 368 448 400 0
r 480 208 528 208 0 5.0
r 560 208 592 208 0 5.0
w 592 208 640 208 0
w 640 208 640 304 0
w 640 304 480 304 0
d 528 208 528 160 1 0.805904783
w 528 160 592 160 0
w 592 160 592 208 0
w 560 208 560 256 0
d 560 256 480 256 1 0.805904783
w 480 256 480 208 0

the resistor values and frequency is not steves. maybe it helps someone to see it all clearly drawn with the components.

Its more like this. You will get 132volts AC across the capacitor.

\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.20306040966347483 71 5.0 50
R 32 208 32 272 0 0 40.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 32 208 32 48 0
w 32 48 352 48 0
w 352 48 352 80 0
w 352 80 272 80 0
w 352 80 432 80 0
w 432 80 432 96 0
w 272 80 272 96 0
l 272 96 272 272 0 0.0024 0.2271882621204687
l 432 96 432 160 0 0.0024 0.19853182203672715
c 432 160 432 224 0 8.3E-8 128.49189556108044
w 272 272 272 320 0
w 272 320 432 320 0
R 224 352 176 352 0 2 10000.0 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 224 352 304 352 0
f 336 368 400 368 0 1.5
w 400 352 432 320 0
w 336 368 304 352 0
g 400 384 400 416 0
r 432 224 480 224 0 5.0
r 512 224 544 224 0 5.0
w 544 224 592 224 0
w 592 224 592 320 0
w 592 320 432 320 0
d 480 224 480 176 1 0.805904783
w 480 176 544 176 0
w 544 176 544 224 0
w 512 224 512 272 0
d 512 272 432 272 1 0.805904783
w 432 272 432 224 0
o 10 1 0 35 160.0 0.8 0 -1

Simulator:
http://www.ionizationx.com/circuit/index.html
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 13:00:39 pm
Hey Steve,
are you thinking now of building a adjustable plates cell? Make smaller gap (lower resistance), then you would have more volts I guess. ::)  Or build a bigger HV power-supply (more current used).

More questions:
What's your gap-size right now, are the two tubes identical ?
How many amps are you consuming (in mAmps range...) ?
Are you seeing more,less or the same gas production, when electrolysis with same amps is used?

Thanks!

br,
Webmug

I have a gap of 1.5mm between my tubes.
The 2 tubessets are identical.
Webmug, i am not gonna make a variable cell. Stan writes about small tubes of 3 inches, and those i use.

The results is gas production is expected.
The results with this setup depends on the current flowing thru the tubes.
If we can get amps circulated, like Sebos is doing, you will gain more gas.

My circuit is the start of something new. Of course its not finished, yet.
If we all make a replication of this and develop it futher, we might get a very nice performing system with lots of gas and less input power.

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 13:01:58 pm
Hi steve,

what is the sine wave amplitude on the capacitor when you are having 120v accross each cell?

The sinewave across the cap is 2 times the voltage across one tubeset.
240volts to be excact.

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 13:11:06 pm
steve,

your second drawing with the idea of a vic incorperated...   im looking at maybe a different approach for the power supply and pulsing..

im looking to use a variac powering a vic supplying the chokes...  stan shows the use of a scr on the positive side of the supply..    and he connect strait to ground... i know  we have spoke about the scr not being able to turn off when being applied to chokes, but what about the scr being applied to a vic...would the charging of the toroidal reach a point where current stops in the primary? due to the fact that this circuit is condensing electrons to the back side of d4... then since you use the coil to build a isolated load then once the scr switches off the toroid will collapse and provide a pulse to the circuit.??

The use of a SCR is the same as using a sold state relais, or FET or transistor.
You have to know how to switch it on and off. Thats the whole idea of creating pulses. There is no magic is the choice of components, as far as i have seen the last couple of years.
Stan used the variac with scr to create a pulsed half rectified signal. I have seen it, because i replicated that 2 years ago. Because resonance is independed on voltage level, it doesnt matter if your voltage is fluctuating.

Every coil will stop pulling amps as soon as it is saturated. That means also for the primairy coil of a VIC.
Whats left is the resistance of that coil against the powersupply. You will notic a high amp peak of charging the coil and then it will level out.

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 13:16:38 pm
I actually have all components except the diodes. 0,1µF 1000V cap, bifilar 1,16mH coil, tubes probably.
Since i'd be very surprised if steve's little coils would survive more than a few watts i guess it's save to use 1000V/1A diodes?

did you use a sine wave or square wave?

also excel sheet for calculation with circuit 1. adjust orange boxes.

My values of the components are very hugh. You do not need that.
Start small. Get it to work.
My circuit pulled 12v by 1 amps.

Important: use 2 coils on 1 core.

Yes, i used a 50% squarewave

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 13:20:23 pm
how would there be any resonance in steve's circuit? which impedances would match? i calculated it through a few times, always without plausible results.

XL of the left path == (XL + Xc) of the right path?
that's never the case

i got resonance at 138khz...

If you use the simulator and the settings as i have posted here above, then you will see tru resonance accoording all math.

Keep in mind that the tubes are acting as somekind of slow acting resistors.
Watch you wfc. How much time does it cost, before you see gas?
At least 3 seconds..!

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 16, 2009, 18:13:17 pm
Steve ,  you should try my pwm  for your experiments .
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 17, 2009, 11:36:20 am
Steve ,  you should try my pwm  for your experiments .

Well, just send one over... ;)
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 19, 2009, 17:14:56 pm
New concept.
Mucho gain here....because of resonance
Just keep the current flowing between coil and capacitor and when the leakage takes away the charge, then hit it again with a puls... ;)

Steve

4 pulses for one shot

\$ 1 5.0E-6 14.841315910257661 46 5.0 43
l 560 64 560 336 0 1.0 -0.0781630048627695
d 416 96 464 96 1 0.805904783
w 416 48 416 96 0
w 352 64 416 48 0
c 352 64 352 336 0 1.4999999999999999E-5 -35.25787110516211
d 464 304 512 304 1 0.805904783
d 528 352 464 352 1 0.805904783
w 528 352 560 336 0
w 416 304 416 352 0
w 416 352 352 336 0
w 512 304 528 352 0
r 416 304 464 304 0 0.5
r 416 48 464 48 0 0.5
d 512 48 464 48 1 0.805904783
w 512 48 512 96 0
w 512 48 560 64 0
d 240 336 352 336 1 0.805904783
R 240 336 240 224 0 2 40.0 36.0 0.0 0.0 0.15
w 352 64 304 64 0
g 304 64 256 64 0
r 464 96 512 96 0 0.5
r 416 352 464 352 0 0.5
o 11 64 0 35 0.14615016373309028 0.18707220957835557 0 -1
o 12 64 0 35 0.14615016373309028 0.18707220957835557 0 -1
o 20 64 0 35 0.078125 0.2 0 -1
o 21 64 0 35 0.15625 0.2 0 -1
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2009, 08:27:18 am
steve,

as i sit here and ponder on your circuit it brings me to similarities of past ideas on the operation of 6-1 coil...     the mosfet thats controling the choke i think is  also controlling primarys negative side in 6-1 both conected to same mosfet... he refers to it as signal 49a-49n... he mentions it as a signal in primary and then shows in diagrams that signal 49a-49n is electrically connected to one of the chokes...  it makes me think its how he could of had the system in a resonance meaning chokes and primary on same freq???
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2009, 10:51:51 am
steve,

as i sit here and ponder on your circuit it brings me to similarities of past ideas on the operation of 6-1 coil...     the mosfet thats controling the choke i think is  also controlling primarys negative side in 6-1 both conected to same mosfet... he refers to it as signal 49a-49n... he mentions it as a signal in primary and then shows in diagrams that signal 49a-49n is electrically connected to one of the chokes...  it makes me think its how he could of had the system in a resonance meaning chokes and primary on same freq???

Hi Outlaw,

Can you post a pic of the text where you have read that?

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit; inductive kickback resonance
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2009, 13:11:11 pm
Resonance from inductive kickback.....

\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.32112705431535615 66 5.0 42
v 128 240 128 64 0 0 40.0 5.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 128 240 176 240 0
w 288 240 240 240 0
s 176 240 240 240 0 1 false
w 240 240 240 272 0
w 176 240 176 272 0
c 176 272 240 272 0 5.0E-10 -4.944443424422517
l 128 64 288 64 0 1.0 -5.222308521471173E-14
d 384 96 384 144 1 0.805904783
d 336 144 336 96 1 0.805904783
r 384 144 384 176 0 5.0
w 336 176 384 176 0
w 336 96 384 96 0
w 384 96 288 64 0
w 384 176 288 240 0
w 336 144 336 176 0
o 7 4 0 35 0.625 9.765625E-5 0 -1
o 6 4 0 35 40.0 9.765625E-5 1 -1
o 10 1 0 35 7.62939453125E-5 9.765625E-5 2 -1

Simulator: see News banner

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2009, 16:03:43 pm
Cell Driver Circuit (90)
In either case, the resultant or varied pulse train (47a xxx 47n) (calibration of 44a xxx 44n)becomes incoming gated pulse signal (48) of figure (3-5) to cell driver circuit (90) of Figure (3-5)
which performs a switching function by switching "off' and "on" electric ground being applied to opposite side (48) of primary coil (26) of Figure (3-19). The resultant pulse wave form (49a xxx 49n) of Figure (3-18) superimposed onto primary coil (26) is exact duplicate of proportional pulse train (47a xxx 47n). However, each pulse train (47) (49) are electrically isolated from each other. Only voltagecross-over from regulated power supply (150) of Figure (3-6) to battery supply (28) occurs, asillustrated in Figure (3-6).

i think we can say that 44a xxx 44n is the signal coming from the pulse generator
while the signal being created in the primary coil becomes identified as 49a xxx 49n
i would say that the reason (47) and (49) are isolated due to optocoupler..

this explains the pulse generators function..
Gated Pulse Frequency generator (80)
Gated Pulse Circuit (80) of Figure (3-5) switches "off' and "on" sections of incoming clock
signal (42) to form gated pulse (45) which is, in turn, duplicated in succession to produce gated pulsetrain (46a xxx 46n) of Figure (3-17). Together pulse train (44a xxx 44n) and pulse offtime (43) forms gated pulse duty cycle(45). Pulse train (44a xxx 44n) is exactly the same as pulse train (41a xxx 41n)and its established pulse frequency (number of pulse cycles per unit of time) changes uniformly when pulse generator (70) of Figure (3-5) is calibrated and adjusted for system operations.Newly formed gated duty pulse (45) is proportional to the physical change in pulse train (44axxx 44n) when circuit (80) is adjusted for calibration purposes. Pulse train (44a xxx 44n) becomes widen while pulse off-time width (43) becomes smaller, simultaneously. Conversely, opposite pulse shaping occurs when circuit (80) of Figure (3-5) is calibrated in reverse order.

now after reading the explanations of 49a xxx 49n look at all the drawings of the chokes down in optical thermal lens and see what signal he in incorperating to the choke..
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2009, 22:48:05 pm
steve,

your second drawing with the idea of a vic incorperated...   im looking at maybe a different approach for the power supply and pulsing..

im looking to use a variac powering a vic supplying the chokes...  stan shows the use of a scr on the positive side of the supply..    and he connect strait to ground... i know  we have spoke about the scr not being able to turn off when being applied to chokes, but what about the scr being applied to a vic...would the charging of the toroidal reach a point where current stops in the primary? due to the fact that this circuit is condensing electrons to the back side of d4... then since you use the coil to build a isolated load then once the scr switches off the toroid will collapse and provide a pulse to the circuit.??

The use of a SCR is the same as using a sold state relais, or FET or transistor.
You have to know how to switch it on and off. Thats the whole idea of creating pulses. There is no magic is the choice of components, as far as i have seen the last couple of years.
Stan used the variac with scr to create a pulsed half rectified signal. I have seen it, because i replicated that 2 years ago. Because resonance is independed on voltage level, it doesnt matter if your voltage is fluctuating.

Every coil will stop pulling amps as soon as it is saturated. That means also for the primairy coil of a VIC.
Whats left is the resistance of that coil against the powersupply. You will notic a high amp peak of charging the coil and then it will level out.

Steve

@Steve
Trying to improve this circuit...more questions:

Is it correct that you only use pulse frequency for LC resonance to create AC signal on tubes?

When looking at the configuration of the diodes connected between the tubes, you are only using half rectified AC signal on tube one and the other half rectified AC on tube two.
If you replace diode to full rectifier bridge, then you doubled the frequency and using all AC signal on tube one and tube two?

Do you see a solution for gate signal, to restrict more current?

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 20, 2009, 22:57:59 pm
i have been thinking on current and how we need to match the impeadance of the chokes to meet primarys..  i think i have a good perspective to consider with current...  i think it can be seen in a basic way and in a more complex...

simple way is how a amp meter works.. its function is to tell you how many electrons are passing a given line in a local space (the wire) the count a amp meter will give doesnt consider the parameters  of the wire confining the traveling charge...

the more complex view would be to consider how many  electrons are passing a given point in a wire.. when i say a given point i mean considering the interaction from the perspective of one copper atom in the circuit and the  count of its exchange of electrons in its unipolar direction (DC).. once figuring that out you know the actual speed of moving charge and you match that perspective of exchange for your primary and choke then can couple ground through its arbitrary connection (mosfet) along with primary to me this seems like a way to take out signal degration factor during pulsing..
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 11:51:39 am
steve,

your second drawing with the idea of a vic incorperated...   im looking at maybe a different approach for the power supply and pulsing..

im looking to use a variac powering a vic supplying the chokes...  stan shows the use of a scr on the positive side of the supply..    and he connect strait to ground... i know  we have spoke about the scr not being able to turn off when being applied to chokes, but what about the scr being applied to a vic...would the charging of the toroidal reach a point where current stops in the primary? due to the fact that this circuit is condensing electrons to the back side of d4... then since you use the coil to build a isolated load then once the scr switches off the toroid will collapse and provide a pulse to the circuit.??

The use of a SCR is the same as using a sold state relais, or FET or transistor.
You have to know how to switch it on and off. Thats the whole idea of creating pulses. There is no magic is the choice of components, as far as i have seen the last couple of years.
Stan used the variac with scr to create a pulsed half rectified signal. I have seen it, because i replicated that 2 years ago. Because resonance is independed on voltage level, it doesnt matter if your voltage is fluctuating.

Every coil will stop pulling amps as soon as it is saturated. That means also for the primairy coil of a VIC.
Whats left is the resistance of that coil against the powersupply. You will notic a high amp peak of charging the coil and then it will level out.

Steve

@Steve
Trying to improve this circuit...more questions:

Is it correct that you only use pulse frequency for LC resonance to create AC signal on tubes?

When looking at the configuration of the diodes connected between the tubes, you are only using half rectified AC signal on tube one and the other half rectified AC on tube two.
If you replace diode to full rectifier bridge, then you doubled the frequency and using all AC signal on tube one and tube two?

Do you see a solution for gate signal, to restrict more current?

br,
Webmug

The idea is to shoot one puls into an LCR circuit.
That circuit will start resonating and keeps on resonating till all charge has leaked.
To prevend that this proces stops, the circuit keeps on pulsing into the LCR with some time delay = gated pulse
So, one pulse, provides many after shocks, so to speak.

The tubes are half rectified, so they always see an unipolar puls and not AC.

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 13:32:15 pm
this would be a good example of matching impeadance i think...

lets say you have 2 wires.. 1 is 10ga. the other is 20ga..
this means that one wire is twice the size in diameter then the other...

if the 10ga current is lets say 4 amps, then the 20 ga. being half the dia of 10ga.. only needs to pass 2 amps of current to match the speed of traveling charge in the 10ga.  so if this holds tru then as you can see as the wire gets smaller it doesnt have to carry high amps to beable to match and couple primary to a choke... the other choke being connected to the secondary with a diode.... (the choke labeled ground in schematics)
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 13:43:32 pm
You are getting too complicated  try to keep it simple stupid make it, work on it and you will understand where to go. my thread is good start.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 13:58:49 pm
i see your system and i understand that you have reached a form of resonance within your system... im trying to look at your set up as well as steves drawing and tryng to make it work with what stan has written...

when your trying to match a signal within a system primarys and secondarys off different potentials  you would think this would be the way to do it.....  it would make sense for the speed of electrons moving in a circuit  to be matched to keep distortion out of the signal...   you would think that the change in speed of electrons would be proportional with the changing of potential.. this would allow dual resonance of 6-1 maybe
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 14:30:14 pm
Is simpler than that,  a coil and a  a capacitor, and a transformer for 10khz few turns on the primary and 3 times more on the secondary with 3,5mm wire. Connect everything, secondary, choke, capacitor, cells and than close again in the secondary what you get is a parallel resonance, use a capacitor between primary leads and a capacitor from source to drain of our mosfet, Use a diode in series from positive side of the batery to the primary... Resonance simply . connect an Ameter in series with the circuit and on the primary. and a voltmeter and frequency meter between the choke sides.

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 15:32:07 pm
can you like draw that with a circuit simulator or something like that?
i'd want to see where the parallel resonance is exactly.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 15:41:22 pm
Man draw it yourself

Follow my words secondary connected to a choke, choke connected to two tubes cell configuration with back to back diode, than connected to Ammeter and than connected the capacitor and again on the secondary. It like stan drawing but on the place of the diode you use the two tubes cell.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 16:04:36 pm
Have you seeing this?

Some say that this is hygienic paper and that stan found the solution when he was at his bathroom, what he had is his bath room that lead him to discover it? think about don't ask me
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 16:15:29 pm
i havent ever seen them pics.. thanks for sharing
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 16:45:49 pm
Man draw it yourself

Follow my words secondary connected to a choke, choke connected to two tubes cell configuration with back to back diode, than connected to Ammeter and than connected the capacitor and again on the secondary. It like stan drawing but on the place of the diode you use the two tubes cell.
That description and the tissue-paper-picture would be series resonance, not parallel. To understand where there could possibly be parallel resonance i have asked you to draw it. If i could do it myself i would have done it. i'm sorry if you understood that i am simply to lazy to do it myself.

i'll do it myself and you could tell me if that's what you were talking about or not, if that's easier.

\$ 1 5.0E-6 10.20027730826997 50 5.0 50
R 128 128 80 128 0 2 40.0 5.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
T 128 128 224 128 0 4.0 1.0 0.001830467222900975 -0.015273866088988878
g 128 160 128 192 0
l 224 128 352 128 0 1.0 0.0152738660889887
d 352 128 384 80 1 0.805904783
r 384 80 432 128 0 100.0
w 432 128 496 128 0
d 384 176 352 128 1 0.805904783
r 384 176 432 128 0 100.0
c 288 256 464 256 0 1.0E-5 10.809893082965203
w 496 128 496 256 0
w 496 256 464 256 0
w 224 160 288 160 0
w 288 160 288 256 0

this?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 17:00:52 pm
Exactly that!

Yes you understood well sorry if i said parallel the way i proposed because in any way the current will recirculate it will be a tank circuit with the energy source in series. You could do also with energy source in parallel too the way i proposed first witch was the vic meyer proposed.  I differentiated explaining that tank circuit definition because there is also the series resonance witch go from positive to ground and finish there without possibility of recirculation of the current.

I just said for you to try yourself because you will fell much better when you reach the objective and because is very important to read and understand, the way i described is very simple isn't it?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 17:34:01 pm
okay thanks sebosfato.
well we all know that stan meyers vic circuit is nearly identical to this: http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html (second with de-q-ing diode) where a tank capacitor is charged. the spark gap functions similar to a pulsed source voltage right?
There is one way i could see current recirculating in the tank cap only, that is when you see the tubes as a very leaky capacitor (that's what it is right?).
The equivalent circuit of that would be a cap with a resistor (our leakage/electrolysis) in parallel. so the cap is charged to twice the input voltage and loses all the charge as current through itself (electrolysis).

or simply the fact that in your circuit current goes unidirectional through the resistors?

edit: nevermind, i think i got it now.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 18:00:11 pm
Yes because meyer said you could use sea water.

the Richies site when he talk about the de-q-ing diode is different thing because the charging choke he meant is only an impedance matching thing, instead meyer used the chokes on the same transformer making it to become a charge pump, to be used as energy source in parallel configuration thats all the confusion he Stan created to confuse people. i say charge pump because it will pump electrons in the tank. I can say this because in an experiment i charged a normal capacitor with the diode before the choke and after the choke and i saw that the voltage the capacitor was able to build up was much higher the way meyer said. Is a kind of very high impedance output.  The choke in the same transformer ok this is the voltage intensifier circuit witch has thin secondary and was connected in parallel with a resonant tank.

I don't use any spark gaps on the circuit IS just for safety limiting the max voltage in case of a circuit error avoiding components to be destructed.

AVOID LIMITING THE PULSE FOR NOW YOU DON'T NEED TO CONTROL THE GAS PRODUCTION UNTIL YOU WILL HAVE SIGNIFICANT GAS PRODUCTION !!!

ONLY SIMPLE FREQUENCY GENERATOR IS NEEDED.
KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID. K.I.S.S.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 19:30:23 pm
Have you seeing this?

Some say that this is hygienic paper and that Stan found the solution when he was at his bathroom, what he had is his bath room that lead him to discover it? think about don't ask me

I believed this drawing was made at a cafe by Mr Meyer and given to a journalist or a friend.I clearly remember i found it on a web page with that kind of explanation, and posted it here a year ago :

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,665.msg7182.html#msg7182

Kind regards

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 21:39:26 pm
I tried to do a simulation to create opposite voltages of equal size, works as a charge-pump.
Used a center-tapped transformer.

Maybe I got it mega wrong! ::)

code:
-------------------------------
\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.41233529972698213 42 5.0 50
g 736 368 800 368 0
l 464 256 560 256 0 0.2 0.46392002014487865
d 592 256 656 256 1 0.805904783
169 400 336 464 336 0 0.2 1.0 0.45006014272370953 -0.4639200201448792
c 592 256 736 368 0 2.8E-7 1403.6467632373617
d 656 480 592 480 1 0.805904783
w 464 368 736 368 0
r 736 368 736 256 0 1000000.0
r 736 368 736 480 0 1000000.0
w 736 480 656 480 0
w 736 256 656 256 1
g 352 448 352 480 0
w 528 480 592 480 0
w 464 336 464 256 0
w 464 400 464 480 0
c 736 368 592 480 0 2.8E-7 1402.6533236931011
l 528 480 464 480 0 0.2 0.4567661576538239
R 272 336 208 336 0 1 672.552 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 352 448 352 400 1
d 352 400 352 336 1 0.805904783
w 560 256 592 256 0
w 272 336 352 336 0
w 352 400 400 400 0
w 400 336 352 336 0
o 8 64 0 35 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
o 7 64 0 295 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
-------------------------------

br,
webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 21:42:25 pm
Is simpler than that,  a coil and a  a capacitor, and a transformer for 10khz few turns on the primary and 3 times more on the secondary with 3,5mm wire. Connect everything, secondary, choke, capacitor, cells and than close again in the secondary what you get is a parallel resonance, use a capacitor between primary leads and a capacitor from source to drain of our mosfet, Use a diode in series from positive side of the batery to the primary... Resonance simply . connect an Ameter in series with the circuit and on the primary. and a voltmeter and frequency meter between the choke sides.

Hi Sebos,

You use 3,5mm wire? Man, thats very thick!

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 21:50:58 pm
Have you seeing this?

Some say that this is hygienic paper and that Stan found the solution when he was at his bathroom, what he had is his bath room that lead him to discover it? think about don't ask me

I believed this drawing was made at a cafe by Mr Meyer and given to a journalist or a friend.I clearly remember i found it on a web page with that kind of explanation, and posted it here a year ago :

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,665.msg7182.html#msg7182

Kind regards

Yes, and at that time i had a discussion with some people on what all components could mean.
I just forgot about it, because that capacitor was confusing..
Now, the world is different....

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 21:57:15 pm
I tried to do a simulation to create opposite voltages of equal size, works as a charge-pump.
Used a center-tapped transformer.

Maybe I got it mega wrong! ::)

code:
-------------------------------
\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.41233529972698213 42 5.0 50
g 736 368 800 368 0
l 464 256 560 256 0 0.2 0.46392002014487865
d 592 256 656 256 1 0.805904783
169 400 336 464 336 0 0.2 1.0 0.45006014272370953 -0.4639200201448792
c 592 256 736 368 0 2.8E-7 1403.6467632373617
d 656 480 592 480 1 0.805904783
w 464 368 736 368 0
r 736 368 736 256 0 1000000.0
r 736 368 736 480 0 1000000.0
w 736 480 656 480 0
w 736 256 656 256 1
g 352 448 352 480 0
w 528 480 592 480 0
w 464 336 464 256 0
w 464 400 464 480 0
c 736 368 592 480 0 2.8E-7 1402.6533236931011
l 528 480 464 480 0 0.2 0.4567661576538239
R 272 336 208 336 0 1 672.552 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 352 448 352 400 1
d 352 400 352 336 1 0.805904783
w 560 256 592 256 0
w 272 336 352 336 0
w 352 400 400 400 0
w 400 336 352 336 0
o 8 64 0 35 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
o 7 64 0 295 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
-------------------------------

br,
webmug

Nice setup, Webmug.
You use 1mega ohm resistors as wfc.
I think that a little bit high... ;)
In my tests with tubes, i found resistance between 0.5 till 10 ohms..

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 21:57:53 pm
the thicker the better, as you have higher Q. Didn't your coils heated up? My ones burns while the vic works cold. The series configuration heat up a lot the input transformer that here is a iron powder one.

Actually i used up to 5 mm the coils become very heavy and big than doing that i discovered something i'm going to tell you now

Stans choke was so big and so in front of us all this time look at the buggy. In the video
was that big thing behind him when he talks that it can works with snow. Is at least a 200mh air coil under vacuum.

I know because i went to a transformer fabric and when i proposed 40kv 5 amps he said you will need to go to vacuum. And showed me something just like that.

On the other meyer video
you see it in another way connected straight to the cell Is on the right side of the car something Round and big.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:06:37 pm
seb are you talking about the blue electric motor looking device?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:10:25 pm
I tried to do a simulation to create opposite voltages of equal size, works as a charge-pump.
Used a center-tapped transformer.

Maybe I got it mega wrong! ::)

code:
-------------------------------
\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.41233529972698213 42 5.0 50
g 736 368 800 368 0
l 464 256 560 256 0 0.2 0.46392002014487865
d 592 256 656 256 1 0.805904783
169 400 336 464 336 0 0.2 1.0 0.45006014272370953 -0.4639200201448792
c 592 256 736 368 0 2.8E-7 1403.6467632373617
d 656 480 592 480 1 0.805904783
w 464 368 736 368 0
r 736 368 736 256 0 1000000.0
r 736 368 736 480 0 1000000.0
w 736 480 656 480 0
w 736 256 656 256 1
g 352 448 352 480 0
w 528 480 592 480 0
w 464 336 464 256 0
w 464 400 464 480 0
c 736 368 592 480 0 2.8E-7 1402.6533236931011
l 528 480 464 480 0 0.2 0.4567661576538239
R 272 336 208 336 0 1 672.552 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 352 448 352 400 1
d 352 400 352 336 1 0.805904783
w 560 256 592 256 0
w 272 336 352 336 0
w 352 400 400 400 0
w 400 336 352 336 0
o 8 64 0 35 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
o 7 64 0 295 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
-------------------------------

br,
webmug

Nice setup, Webmug.
You use 1mega ohm resistors as wfc.
I think that a little bit high... ;)
In my tests with tubes, i found resistance between 0.5 till 10 ohms..

Steve

Strange circuit :o, where is the potential coming from if you have max. 10 ohms cell, from inductor and choke???
My plate cell has 0 ohm but when its charging it rises to 7k ohm or more. My 6 parallel tubes cell has 1M ohms 1,5mm gaps? :-\

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:12:11 pm
not the motor what suppose to be the cell in the first video

In the other is different if you look at it
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:23:29 pm
in the same video he is putting water into that cell.. it shows a preasure gauge with rising preasure on that cell how did you conclude that is was under a vacuum? or is do u think the chokes are some how incorporated into the fuel cell?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:28:08 pm
I tried to do a simulation to create opposite voltages of equal size, works as a charge-pump.
Used a center-tapped transformer.

Maybe I got it mega wrong! ::)

code:
-------------------------------
\$ 1 5.0E-6 0.41233529972698213 42 5.0 50
g 736 368 800 368 0
l 464 256 560 256 0 0.2 0.46392002014487865
d 592 256 656 256 1 0.805904783
169 400 336 464 336 0 0.2 1.0 0.45006014272370953 -0.4639200201448792
c 592 256 736 368 0 2.8E-7 1403.6467632373617
d 656 480 592 480 1 0.805904783
w 464 368 736 368 0
r 736 368 736 256 0 1000000.0
r 736 368 736 480 0 1000000.0
w 736 480 656 480 0
w 736 256 656 256 1
g 352 448 352 480 0
w 528 480 592 480 0
w 464 336 464 256 0
w 464 400 464 480 0
c 736 368 592 480 0 2.8E-7 1402.6533236931011
l 528 480 464 480 0 0.2 0.4567661576538239
R 272 336 208 336 0 1 672.552 12.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
w 352 448 352 400 1
d 352 400 352 336 1 0.805904783
w 560 256 592 256 0
w 272 336 352 336 0
w 352 400 400 400 0
w 400 336 352 336 0
o 8 64 0 35 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
o 7 64 0 295 2239.7447421778043 0.002734063405978765 0 -1
-------------------------------

br,
webmug

Nice setup, Webmug.
You use 1mega ohm resistors as wfc.
I think that a little bit high... ;)
In my tests with tubes, i found resistance between 0.5 till 10 ohms..

Steve

Strange circuit :o, where is the potential coming from if you have max. 10 ohms cell, from inductor and choke???
My plate cell has 0 ohm but when its charging it rises to 7k ohm or more. My 6 parallel tubes cell has 1M ohms 1,5mm gaps? :-\

br,
Webmug

If you put 12V on your wfc, and it pulls 6amps.....How large is the resistance? 2 ohms!
The higher the voltage, the lower the resistance, and more amps are flowing...

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:33:53 pm
Because was perfect to hide. yes you can use the magnetism too to change the things within the bound of water molecule but is not the most important. however i believe that were his coils on his car. I mean the choke is under vacuum because the isolation for the high voltage.

Have you heard about electromagnetic electrolysis?

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:49:19 pm
interesting perspective seb.. so u believe stan hid the chokes within the vessel the fuel cell is in and is in a separate chamber under a vacuum environment to eliminate the wires interaction with outer environment potentials such as noble gasses.. does this eliminate the heat factor?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 22:56:32 pm
Not the heat but the corona discharge that destroy the coil
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 21, 2009, 23:00:47 pm
Theres alot of new posts , great !

I hate a postless day .
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 12:01:06 pm

If you put 12V on your wfc, and it pulls 6amps.....How large is the resistance? 2 ohms!
The higher the voltage, the lower the resistance, and more amps are flowing...

Steve
Thinking out loud:

Am I thinking wrong here? We do not want current to flow through the WFC!  We want to prevent this because we do NOT want dead-short-condition (conventional electrolysis). If we use current we are creating heat (losses).

The only current that flows, is feeding the primary of the transformer to power the charge-pump circuit.

Just as you explained, this circuit is charging itself with BEMF due to the AC resonance (give it a little low power push at a fixed period and amplitude is rising). Just like in nature all is in balance (oscillating circuit). If we do nothing, the system eventually dies.

In the simulation we can see the STEP-CHARGE, first low potentials then rising to a maximum value the components can handle. At low frequency (672Hz) the potential is rising very slow but it is rising, so higher frequency can be used to charge it faster. The component values are much smaller at higher frequencies.

Stan explained as we all know, that he used opposite potentials (of equal value) for PULLING the water molecules at the di-poles.

Yes, there is little current necessary to polarize the water for the fist step, to charge it to a min. of 2V (this value is obvious a fixed threshold) If we do not have current flowing, water is not responding (polarizing). We can polarize water with the CHARGE-PUMP for a fixed time period.

When this threshold is reached, we want to prevent dead-short-condition (gap-sparking). If this occurred, polarization must be done again from the beginning.
He prevented this with a gate-signal. When gating (no pulse) water is regaining its dielectric strength (more/less resistance) when we gate (pulse) there is even more potential because the charge-pump is already charged (EMF is cycling through the circuit). But the dielectric is changing (resistance) due to gas production, so the gating signal must also be compensated to prevent dead-short-condition.

Also this PULLING only works with min. of kV potentials, because the water molecules only wants to interact on this potential level.

Do circuit simulations yourself and see the CHARGE-PUMP STEP-CHARGING...

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 12:12:57 pm
when meyer said oh we have to use 5 amps big deal he meant this because of the losses 5 amps flowing tru a resonant circuit of 2 ohms series resistance consumes 50 watts you see?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 12:27:14 pm

If you put 12V on your wfc, and it pulls 6amps.....How large is the resistance? 2 ohms!
The higher the voltage, the lower the resistance, and more amps are flowing...

Steve
Thinking out loud:

Am I thinking wrong here? We do not want current to flow through the WFC!  We want to prevent this because we do NOT want dead-short-condition (conventional electrolysis). If we use current we are creating heat (losses).

The only current that flows, is feeding the primary of the transformer to power the charge-pump circuit.

Just as you explained, this circuit is charging itself with BEMF due to the AC resonance (give it a little low power push at a fixed period and amplitude is rising). Just like in nature all is in balance (oscillating circuit). If we do nothing, the system eventually dies.

In the simulation we can see the STEP-CHARGE, first low potentials then rising to a maximum value the components can handle. At low frequency (672Hz) the potential is rising very slow but it is rising, so higher frequency can be used to charge it faster. The component values are much smaller at higher frequencies.

Stan explained as we all know, that he used opposite potentials (of equal value) for PULLING the water molecules at the di-poles.

Yes, there is little current necessary to polarize the water for the fist step, to charge it to a min. of 2V (this value is obvious a fixed threshold) If we do not have current flowing, water is not responding (polarizing). We can polarize water with the CHARGE-PUMP for a fixed time period.

When this threshold is reached, we want to prevent dead-short-condition (gap-sparking). If this occurred, polarization must be done again from the beginning.
He prevented this with a gate-signal. When gating (no pulse) water is regaining its dielectric strength (more/less resistance) when we gate (pulse) there is even more potential because the charge-pump is already charged (EMF is cycling through the circuit). But the dielectric is changing (resistance) due to gas production, so the gating signal must also be compensated to prevent dead-short-condition.

Also this PULLING only works with min. of kV potentials, because the water molecules only wants to interact on this potential level.

Do circuit simulations yourself and see the CHARGE-PUMP STEP-CHARGING...

br,
Webmug

I think you hit the nail right, here, webmug.
Amps work. In this topic, we talk about re-using amps and volts.

The deadshort condition is in case of the resonance circuit not inplace.
You only have a deadshortcondition if you hook a wfc directly to a powersupply.
In case of above mentioned circuit, the current flushes back and forward!

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 12:42:39 pm
when meyer said oh we have to use 5 amps big deal he meant this because of the losses 5 amps flowing tru a resonant circuit of 2 ohms series resistance consumes 50 watts you see?

Hi sebosfato,

Yes, but was he only talking about a transformer (variac)?

Where is the 2 ohms series resistance located? Inputing 50 watts of power is nothing, compared what you get in return (aka Meyer setup).
If you want HV then you must input more current in the transformer.
When I simulate this circuit with input of 110V, you pulling about 8Amps (depending on transformer design) and CHARGE it to 4kV.

I only want to figure out how the CHARGE-PUMP is operating.

br
webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 12:51:18 pm

I think you hit the nail right, here, webmug.
Amps work. In this topic, we talk about re-using amps and volts.

The deadshort condition is in case of the resonance circuit not inplace.
You only have a deadshortcondition if you hook a wfc directly to a powersupply.
In case of above mentioned circuit, the current flushes back and forward!

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 13:41:16 pm
Hi webmug

You can't just input 50 watts in a circuit is the circuit that draw the current accordingly with its resistance and supply voltage. The Power you are putting in is the power that is being consumed in the Losses of the circuit. If you higher the voltage obviously than you will allow more current to flow. I found a constant that is simple is like ohms law. If you input lets say 12 volts in a 3 ohms resistor you will draw 4 amps ok. Now dealing will resonant tank circuit i discovered that input voltage will be multiplied by the Q factor witch is The inductance reactance divided by the series resistance of the inductor + capacitor and load. Lets say if we have a reactance of 10.000 our Q factor from the first example will be 10.000/3 ohms  = 3.333 *12v = 40.000v  I discovered from many calculations and experiments than Another way to know what will be the voltage you just have to multiply the reactance by the current. So 10.000 * 4 amps = 40kv and now
Again if you have 4 amps recirculating and 3 ohms of resistance you will dissipate 4^2=16*3 ohms  =48 watts

Ok all meyer did is to create a 12v transformer that transformed the impedance 3 ohms on the primary to 40 megaohms of the secondary with the diode. I mean 40 megaohms right because this is the complex impedance witch you have with the circuit i proposed for inputing the energy with the source in parallel. The impedance is aways relative to " something" the source. In the case of meyer he used the vic and gated the pulses to limit the voltage to go higher than certain top. but any way is all about control the amount of accumulated energy.

IN meyers case he said 40kv 1ma because was what the resonant tank was drawing from the vic but on the tank there was 4 amps recirculating. 40Kv 40mega ohms = 1ma
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 13:45:26 pm
Who knows if the voltage theory is right, i built the water fracture apparatus with > 10kV and it didn't work, probably because my gap was to large, but likely because it does not work.
also the test report claims there were several amps for each tube.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 14:03:22 pm
Who knows if the voltage theory is right, i built the water fracture apparatus with > 10kV and it didn't work, probably because my gap was to large, but likely because it does not work.
also the test report claims there were several amps for each tube.

Have you used opposite potentials (of equal value) for PULLING the water molecules at the di-poles?

br
webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 14:06:18 pm
Hi webmug

You can't just input 50 watts in a circuit is the circuit that draw the current accordingly with its resistance and supply voltage. The Power you are putting in is the power that is being consumed in the Losses of the circuit. If you higher the voltage obviously than you will allow more current to flow. I found a constant that is simple is like ohms law. If you input lets say 12 volts in a 3 ohms resistor you will draw 4 amps ok. Now dealing will resonant tank circuit i discovered that input voltage will be multiplied by the Q factor witch is The inductance reactance divided by the series resistance of the inductor + capacitor and load. Lets say if we have a reactance of 10.000 our Q factor from the first example will be 10.000/3 ohms  = 3.333 *12v = 40.000v  I discovered from many calculations and experiments than Another way to know what will be the voltage you just have to multiply the reactance by the current. So 10.000 * 4 amps = 40kv and now
Again if you have 4 amps recirculating and 3 ohms of resistance you will dissipate 4^2=16*3 ohms  =48 watts

Ok all meyer did is to create a 12v transformer that transformed the impedance 3 ohms on the primary to 40 megaohms of the secondary with the diode. I mean 40 megaohms right because this is the complex impedance witch you have with the circuit i proposed for inputing the energy with the source in parallel. The impedance is aways relative to " something" the source. In the case of meyer he used the vic and gated the pulses to limit the voltage to go higher than certain top. but any way is all about control the amount of accumulated energy.

IN meyers case he said 40kv 1ma because was what the resonant tank was drawing from the vic but on the tank there was 4 amps recirculating. 40Kv 40mega ohms = 1ma

sebosfato,
I will take a look at this.

br
webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 14:19:15 pm
The electric field theory meyer proposed was right but there is something else in the juice. Meyer patents weren't protected because he didn't mention on them the real functionality of the system. Resonance has aways being very known subject However he made every one confuse about it to lead people to think that was the only key, just to protect the technology. The truth is that there is only one way to do it or more specifically one principle ! This principle can be done in few different ways but all them have the same principle. I wish i could have loads of money to be able to release this to the world but is much harder to raise funds than the technology it self.

webmug why do you talk about dipoles?
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 14:25:33 pm
they must be of equal potentials so the speed of the waves meet in the middle of the cell..  from both pos and negative... its like a collision of vacuum and pressure.. potential determins the speed of the signal across the cell from one plate to another due to the fact voltage (potential
) can cause action to occur (motion) in our relative environment... if one were to be higher then the other then the timing of impacted would not be symetrical and would be considered off balance from a physics perspective.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 14:33:58 pm
On the cell you will need to have a current and current will come from one side to the other side DC. Is not sensitive if is 40kv and -40kv is not about it.

Is all about the electron extraction circuit and no other in the world understood how it works. Don't worry about it, worry about understanding and being able to understand, and if you can raise funds, this is the most difficult part.

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 14:34:36 pm
The electric field theory meyer proposed was right but there is something else in the juice. Meyer patents weren't protected because he didn't mention on them the real functionality of the system. Resonance has aways being very known subject However he made every one confuse about it to lead people to think that was the only key, just to protect the technology. The truth is that there is only one way to do it or more specifically one principle ! This principle can be done in few different ways but all them have the same principle. I wish i could have loads of money to be able to release this to the world but is much harder to raise funds than the technology it self.

webmug why do you talk about dipoles?

Different components in the circuit have di-poles... inductors, capacitors, WFC.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dipole

br,
webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 14:59:26 pm
they must be of equal potentials so the speed of the waves meet in the middle of the cell..  from both pos and negative... its like a collision of vacuum and pressure.. potential determins the speed of the signal across the cell from one plate to another due to the fact voltage (potential
) can cause action to occur (motion) in our relative environment... if one were to be higher then the other then the timing of impacted would not be symetrical and would be considered off balance from a physics perspective.

Correct outlawstc, unbalancing the water molecules.

br
webmug
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 15:12:23 pm
Yes, but I think you can leave this idea because is not practical believe me. Is not that the principle, the principle it is basic and elementary.  If you watch carefully the new Zealand he talks briefly about the principle while not explaining how to use it. And he do the same thing when he talk about resonance. Restrict amps while allowing voltage to take over in a Dead short condition bla bla bla. Believe is simple and stupid like he said K.I.S.S. thats why he took so many time explaining things that is related to the principle while not explaining it. Thats why he decided to go for a injector. I believe the injector had problems being released because of the durability problem. And that, he got that cause lost because he couldn't reveal this secrete to the investors and probably they had teams for constructing the unity for parallel comparison and they found that was impossible to do with the information he provided. So he got the cause lost. And problems patenting it. Thats why he invented that theory about voltage witch has to do with but don't work like he proposed.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 15:33:42 pm
The magic thing is that i discovered all this by myself. Lot of work alone 3,5 years everyday almost ... And got confirmation from german and south America physicists that i'm correct. They were amazed about my understanding...
I Believe i got this mind expansion so drastically pronounced because of a kind of accident i had when i was 18, when i was 20 i was already in europe and started to work on this, i learned the italian in 3 months and also english by myself too at home working on this. I started researching about this because a friend that was very much like Forest Gump, told me that one friend of him have a friend of a friend that had a water car. This was at 2006, We laughs a lot about it but when i got at home i found on youtube stan, and i believed. And started working on it by myself and has always being like this until now.

I found the answer while i was talking with a friend that started helping me about 3 months ago to find a financing nothing until now but talking to him and talking and talking i just said something and think to my self ohh boy it can't be other thing than this. K.I.S.S.

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 16:47:37 pm
you must polarize the water molecule with voltage first
then you must raise the voltage amplitude until you have reached the liquid to gas ionization stage
only when you have caused electrons to be pulled right out of the water molecules with high voltage, such as in (neon) gas ionization tubes will you have any electrons to extract

the electron extraction circuit pulses exactly opposite to the main pulse frequency, and during the eec pulse it places a load between a positive voltage and the water bath.

The water bath acts as a "ground" source, or an electron source, and the electrons and pulled out by the positive voltage and the energy from them absorbed by the load so they can not enter back into the water bath.

You can not use the electron extraction circuit until you figure out the electrical polarization process.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 17:03:23 pm
I have replicated this setup with the two tubes. Yes, it is resonance. The water temperature does not change. The only problem is only one of the tubes produces significant gas. The next step is how to extend it to six tubes without applying 3 circuits.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 17:31:15 pm
I have replicated this setup with the two tubes. Yes, it is resonance. The water temperature does not change. The only problem is only one of the tubes produces significant gas. The next step is how to extend it to six tubes without applying 3 circuits.

It will depend on how much energy your coils and capacitor are consuming and your driving method if is half bridge etc can you give us your configuration details

Donald about the electron extraction circuit is very trick much simple but very trick and it don't need high voltage to work and it works not only on the gas processor it works also on the cell basically is the principle of work of the cell. I believed for last year that was a question of push it to a limit where water release more electrons than are coming in like a chain reaction, the chain reaction exists but is more about balancing than pushing. water cracks it self.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 17:38:45 pm

Had been nice to know if anyone here can claim overunity?..

YES or NO will do...  :)

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 17:41:32 pm
Yes, I have a half bridge setup in a series resonance circuit. My coil is a huge 13 gage 4.7mh choke.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 17:55:41 pm
very nice yaro thats the way tryout this use a 300 nf cap and drive it into resonance and check if you get better results does the inductor get hot?

WAYtoGO YES we do
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 19:11:50 pm

Good, then i am a not alone... :)

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 19:23:38 pm
very nice yaro thats the way tryout this use a 300 nf cap and drive it into resonance and check if you get better results does the inductor get hot?

WAYtoGO YES we do

The 16 gage coils got hot but the big 13 gage coil does not get hot. The diodes get hot too.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 19:55:34 pm
people talk about how its to hard to bring it to the people due to the fact of funds to do so, very true but if there is one thing i have learned from this whole ordeal and time spent learning is that there is not one path to success but many and only limited to the creativity (variablility)  of ones mind and willpower.. for this knowledge to reach the world it will not be done by creating and giving for the price of a product in the form of money... it will only come threw the teaching  of the truths we have learned to others and allow the roots to grow to bring forth the growth of a new born technology..

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 20:15:29 pm
Its hard because it could be economically compatible only if mass production takes place. Other wise if every one should build one we would continue the bad distribution of money and people would spent more than 50 times their money. And we will need to work forever, if this technology comes out instead as a method for free people and we allow it to go to every one or to become popular price than we are going to change the world. Is not the question of the profit is about control or have the power to do things to change things to make people thinks and start a new life in peace...

YES 100 times must be good
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 20:44:07 pm
and money allways follows popularity since popularity seems to pay off in todays society (sponsors)  due to monoistic views of the sheeple, i mean people.. following unworthy dictatorships....... we are gonna need someone to get a car to run on water then some how become a icon. (famous)... how??? takes a act of genius... one must be able to apply a senario to reality that plays out for the better good.... for example.. one may find a way to sneak a highly advertised water power car on the race track during daytona 500 right before the  race. to get the acknowledgement of the people and  of the media.. under high attention environment.... one must fuel the hope and belief to the people..  they will catalyze action by greater magnitude then me and u alone... ideas of mass production begining soley from u or me in some type of economical view based on money is non existant....
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 20:45:56 pm

Wonder if government's will tax water or the use of water fuel cells, when people starts to use them?..
Free clean energy and at the same time healing the planet is like a dream..

In my oil producing country they recently shut down a new biodiesel plant, without saying why they did that... maybe they was afraid for the competition...

I think we have to claim this energy for free world wide to be able to use it.
So far it is not an issue, for many do not believe that this is possible, but when it is known, i really hopes nobody stops us.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 23:15:57 pm
I have replicated this setup with the two tubes. Yes, it is resonance. The water temperature does not change. The only problem is only one of the tubes produces significant gas. The next step is how to extend it to six tubes without applying 3 circuits.

Maybe you have not hooked the 2 diodes properly on the 2 tubes?
You might also choose to use 1 tube and 2 diodes.
Somehow, i think thats how Stan did it...

Steve
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 23:23:32 pm
very nice yaro thats the way tryout this use a 300 nf cap and drive it into resonance and check if you get better results does the inductor get hot?

WAYtoGO YES we do

The 16 gage coils got hot but the big 13 gage coil does not get hot. The diodes get hot too.

Yaro, can you share your setup, and post a schematic?
Thats what Sebos did and what i did.
That way, we can learn from our mistakes and take it to a higher level.

Steve

Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 22, 2009, 23:55:20 pm
My setup is the same as yours, the only difference is the half-bridge circuit.
I also found out that when I hooked up the capacitor in series the two tubes produced evenly. Visually, it seems like the production is higher without the capacitor.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 04:52:57 am

If you put 12V on your wfc, and it pulls 6amps.....How large is the resistance? 2 ohms!
The higher the voltage, the lower the resistance, and more amps are flowing...

Steve
Thinking out loud:

Am I thinking wrong here? We do not want current to flow through the WFC!  We want to prevent this because we do NOT want dead-short-condition (conventional electrolysis). If we use current we are creating heat (losses).

The only current that flows, is feeding the primary of the transformer to power the charge-pump circuit.

Just as you explained, this circuit is charging itself with BEMF due to the AC resonance (give it a little low power push at a fixed period and amplitude is rising). Just like in nature all is in balance (oscillating circuit). If we do nothing, the system eventually dies.

In the simulation we can see the STEP-CHARGE, first low potentials then rising to a maximum value the components can handle. At low frequency (672Hz) the potential is rising very slow but it is rising, so higher frequency can be used to charge it faster. The component values are much smaller at higher frequencies.

Stan explained as we all know, that he used opposite potentials (of equal value) for PULLING the water molecules at the di-poles.

Yes, there is little current necessary to polarize the water for the fist step, to charge it to a min. of 2V (this value is obvious a fixed threshold) If we do not have current flowing, water is not responding (polarizing). We can polarize water with the CHARGE-PUMP for a fixed time period.

When this threshold is reached, we want to prevent dead-short-condition (gap-sparking). If this occurred, polarization must be done again from the beginning.
He prevented this with a gate-signal. When gating (no pulse) water is regaining its dielectric strength (more/less resistance) when we gate (pulse) there is even more potential because the charge-pump is already charged (EMF is cycling through the circuit). But the dielectric is changing (resistance) due to gas production, so the gating signal must also be compensated to prevent dead-short-condition.

Also this PULLING only works with min. of kV potentials, because the water molecules only wants to interact on this potential level.

Do circuit simulations yourself and see the CHARGE-PUMP STEP-CHARGING...

br,
Webmug

This is always how I imagined it myself webmug , pull a bit but not  too much with the gate .

Is it really that simple ??
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 13:11:19 pm
Check out
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 14:23:19 pm
nice work seb... seems to be a resonable approach for trying to get sponsors.. but most people want to see proof or they aint hearing it... just because u say 100 times over faraday doesnt mean they will beleive...
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 23, 2009, 14:57:52 pm
Yes and thats the problem i'm having that i said is even more difficult than the technology it self
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 12:02:24 pm

Personally i think Mr Sebosfato have found an other method than Meyer did... It can actually be patented and he could  had been richer than Bill Gates lol.......

However i don`t understand how you will be able to get sponsors/ investors in this tec. while you are charing it on internet for free...

But i am not complaining at all....... Thanks :D

To all of you : MERRY CHRISTMAS!
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 12:54:32 pm
this tech isnt meant for getting rich its meant for setting we the people free from the chains that bound us on a daily bases (need for money to survive)  me my self would do the same thing as seb if i came across good results...  this tech is like a exodus it can be the movement of the people.. i dont know about most but i dont want to even have to think about money in the future.. i want a world that is set up to benifit all and if i want to chill on at the beach for a week without a worry in the world such as bills.. thats when one may start to live.. patents and rights are boundries that create unfair growth in the form of early monopolization.. sure a inventor should have some rights but to allow a inventor to hold all right allows for greed to take advantage
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 13:22:35 pm
I don't think it would work to patent a groundbreaking technology. Think of the oil standard and the importance of oil for the whole economy (not only US but for the whole world). Just as Obama cannot pull all troops out of Iraq even if he wanted to one cannot simply patent a free energy technology and sell it.
The only way it would work in my opinion is gathering precise and detailed information on the technology and put it with a General Public License on as many sharing channels (web, ftp, email-lists, usenet, torrent, one-click-hosters,. ..) as possible. But be sure to make it precise enough that people can actually replicate this and it works.
To make profit the inventor can then start selling working units. Because many people would rather buy then build it themselves and the inventor has the most experience he'd be selling plenty of units.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 13:31:52 pm
Man i just believe from what i have seeing in this world that until we need to pay for things like water, energy, food, medical, ... there will be wars. I want to get rich? Yes but my mission is to make this things become a basic human rights. And it will be possible only if  we could become bigger than certain big guys in this world. Monopolization is not a problem if our mission is work for the people benefit. Example if the quotes of the society is distributed to the population in a certain manner. Another thing i want to stop is the slaving system we live where most people work for having the money to survive every month. We can change this only giving the example to make people understand that is possible. If you stop to work you don't eat so thats why they pay you the less they can, because you are going to need to work next month. This is wrong. I'm going to change this and all of you are going to help us! I hope! Today we have the technology and logistics to make all this things possible. Yes, we can!!! Is not socialism is not communism is just INTELLIGENCE used to make people lives good and HAPPY! Picture your self in a world where the money you earn serves only to buy a car or a television or maybe travel and have fun!

Wouldn't it be nice to live together
In the kind of world where we belong
You know it's gonna make it that much better
When we can say goodnight and stay together
Wouldn't it be nice if we could wake up
In the morning when the day is new
Maybe if we think and wish and hope and pray
It might come true
Baby then there wouldn't be a single thing we couldn't do

You know it seems the more we talk about it
It only makes it worse to live without it
Wouldn't it be nice
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 13:33:53 pm
Believe me is impossible to make it your self you would spent 100 times more than it would cost in mass production man is not that easy unfortunately

Happy Christmas to you All
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 13:44:51 pm
well yes i believe you sebosfato. i'm just talking about the information which would be more secure if 10% of the people had them and not only one person.
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 24, 2009, 14:10:49 pm
When people understand this, it will be a new subject on high school for sure. But until there the secret must remain because think if a big company had the secret too? they will eat your business and no change in the world will happen. Do you understand how profound is the thing? The technology is at safe now because i'm not the only one that will have it and there are mechanisms to release it in worst case... until there we work to do it ourselves, all of you can help as i said the problem is getting the money we are talking to presidents and ministers, artists but is very hard because or they don't believe or they just don't care. What can you do? Think about and do it carefully. Without help i'm not going to get anywhere! Is up to all of you the most interested people in a nice world for living!
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on January 16, 2010, 14:40:33 pm
here a sim of a resonating transformer

10V and 4 amps input at 25khz
10KV and 4 amps output.......

\$ 1 5.0E-6 3.046768661252054 77 5.0 50
T 336 160 400 240 0 4.56 1.0 2.7700275863221955 -2.7718562715689097
v 336 160 336 240 0 1 24999.999999999996 10.0 0.0 0.0 0.5
c 400 240 480 240 0 4.0E-9 8737.203243007772
r 480 240 480 160 0 1.0
d 480 160 400 160 1 0.805904783
d 400 160 480 240 1 0.805904783
o 2 1 0 35 20480.0 12.8 0 -1
o 3 1 0 35 10.0 12.8 1 -1
o 1 1 0 35 10.0 12.8 2 -1
Title: Re: Working resonance circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 25, 2013, 16:44:15 pm
Hy Steve,today i build this circuit,got 180v AC on the cap,but no bules at all...whats the catch?