Ionizationx: a clean environment is a human right!

Projects by members => Projects by members => Steve => Topic started by: Steve on November 21, 2009, 23:15:42 pm

Title: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 21, 2009, 23:15:42 pm
Why i think, we need to pre-heat HHO before using it in engines.

Here is a document from BMW. Its in German..... ;)
It has to do with the fact that hydrogen has fine cooling property's and thats not what we want. So they also heat up the gas, before it goes in their engines.

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 00:12:47 am
Hydrogen is supposed to expand a lot with a slight temperature increase, it is used as an expansion fluid in some sterling engines for this reason.
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 10:31:02 am
Hydrogen is supposed to expand a lot with a slight temperature increase, it is used as an expansion fluid in some sterling engines for this reason.

Doesnt that make you think?

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 13:44:43 pm

 Steve, have you tried separating the H from the O and using it straight ??  AS you already mentioned, it's diluted before it gets into the engine ??
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 13:51:23 pm

 Steve, have you tried separating the H from the O and using it straight ??  AS you already mentioned, it's diluted before it gets into the engine ??

I have made a testcell which separates H from O, but thats less efficient then a normal HHO cell.
If anybody finds a way to separate H from O from the output of our drycells, then he will become a hero!

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 18:16:22 pm

 I posted how to do that, a long while back. Bubble the HHO through a liquid, and, it holds or absorbs the O.  Can't remember the liquid. Think it was an acid ???  Interested?  I will look it up ??
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 18:20:29 pm
Hydrogen is supposed to expand a lot with a slight temperature increase, it is used as an expansion fluid in some sterling engines for this reason.

Doesnt that make you think?

Steve

I'll think about it, Stan doesn't mention heating the fuel before using it.

If the reason for heating it is to increase it's volume or pressure, then I'd wonder if this is required.

The BMW people probably do not use exhaust gasses to modulate the burn rate, so i assume they design their engines to run on simple hydrogen, and this is why they need to heat it up to manipulate it's volume and this might have an effect on it's mixing and burning... but i would think it would make it mix with oxygen faster, and then burn faster. So they would even be redesigning their engines to run on the properties of hydrogen.

You have to realize than when Stan got all his patents to make hydrogen a reasonable fuel source he solved ALL the problems with using hydrogen as fuel, and all the other companies are NOT using his patents, so they have to bullshit their way around and still make the systems work.

Every company working towards the "Hydrogen Economy" is ignoring all of Stan's simple solutions.

They are NOT using quenching circuits

They are NOT modulating the burn rate and temperature with non combustible gasses

They are NOT producing hydrogen on demand

They ARE doing stupid things like compressing hydrogen, cooling and liquefying it in heavy tanks.

They ARE doing stupid things like making Hydrogen gas stations

All of this new hydrogen technology coming from the big companies is all over complicated, fancy, futuristic looking bullshit, and they are doing it all the hard way.

Stan says "it doesn't matter what type of hydrogen system you develop, you are going to have to go through Stan Meyer's Blue Zone to render it safer than natural gas" and guess what? They are working around Stan's Blue Zone, and it's causing them a lot of problems. (See the Switzerland Video)
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 22, 2009, 18:29:02 pm
That patent says they are taking frozen liquefied hydrogen from a tank at -250 degrees C, and heating it up to +50 degrees C before sending it to the engine.

Can you imagine how much energy is wasted by cooling the hydrogen from the temperature it was created, say 30 degrees, down to -250, then heating it back up to 50 degrees, they are putting all that energy into the gas to change it's temperature by 580 degrees all because they are too proud to develop an on demand system, or to respect Stan's system.


Sorry for taking this a offtopic, I agree that sending the hydrogen into the engine at 50 degrees C may be more efficient than at 25 degrees C, and this could be a useful factor in tuning the system.

Another point is that if you mix the fuel gasses with exhaust gasses, you could eliminate the need for a heat exchanger  depending on the temperature of the exhaust gases - if the exhaust is warm, it will raise the temp of your fuel mixture, you could use this to your advantage if it is useful.

How would you normally heat your fuel? waste heat from the exhaust... so mixing it directly eliminates the heat exchanger, if you can control the temp and mixing ratio suitably.

Also hotter fuel has more energy per mass, but if it expands a lot, it may have less energy per volume, or you could heat it to raise the pressure, and then you're messing with the compression ratio, all fun things to get the engine to run the way you want it.

The best thing to do would be to design a system so you have control over all the variables you want to look at and adjust, and then run experimental trials, adjusting each parameter individually to note the results, and then tuning into the proper mixture/temperature/pressure based on those experiments.
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 06:52:33 am
I have made a testcell which separates H from O, but thats less efficient then a normal HHO cell.
If anybody finds a way to separate H from O from the output of our drycells, then he will become a hero!

Steve
I saw an interesting video that showed that oxygen is actually attracted to magnetic fields. he proved this with liquid oxygen, a nice light blue color, poured it through a magnet. could you not just magnetically channel the oxygen???  have a branch off from your main line that magnetically "pulls" the oxygen into the pipe. Mind you this only works on the principal that hydrogen is not magnetic...
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 11:45:06 am
Hydrogen is supposed to expand a lot with a slight temperature increase, it is used as an expansion fluid in some sterling engines for this reason.

Doesnt that make you think?

Steve

I'll think about it, Stan doesn't mention heating the fuel before using it.

If the reason for heating it is to increase it's volume or pressure, then I'd wonder if this is required.

The BMW people probably do not use exhaust gasses to modulate the burn rate, so i assume they design their engines to run on simple hydrogen, and this is why they need to heat it up to manipulate it's volume and this might have an effect on it's mixing and burning... but i would think it would make it mix with oxygen faster, and then burn faster. So they would even be redesigning their engines to run on the properties of hydrogen.

You have to realize than when Stan got all his patents to make hydrogen a reasonable fuel source he solved ALL the problems with using hydrogen as fuel, and all the other companies are NOT using his patents, so they have to bullshit their way around and still make the systems work.

Every company working towards the "Hydrogen Economy" is ignoring all of Stan's simple solutions.

They are NOT using quenching circuits

They are NOT modulating the burn rate and temperature with non combustible gasses

They are NOT producing hydrogen on demand

They ARE doing stupid things like compressing hydrogen, cooling and liquefying it in heavy tanks.

They ARE doing stupid things like making Hydrogen gas stations

All of this new hydrogen technology coming from the big companies is all over complicated, fancy, futuristic looking bullshit, and they are doing it all the hard way.

Stan says "it doesn't matter what type of hydrogen system you develop, you are going to have to go through Stan Meyer's Blue Zone to render it safer than natural gas" and guess what? They are working around Stan's Blue Zone, and it's causing them a lot of problems. (See the Switzerland Video)

Well, we dont know what Stan did in totall, is it.
One thing i am sure. BMW engineers are definitly not stupid.. ;)
What i noticed, is that the HHO was cold on the skin...So, HHO is cooling down the engine too much when not pre-heated.
Now i have to find out how warm HHO must be, before an engine is gonna like it.
And, yes, maybe that was one of the reasons why Stan used exhaust gasses too.


Steve



Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 11:47:49 am
I have made a testcell which separates H from O, but thats less efficient then a normal HHO cell.
If anybody finds a way to separate H from O from the output of our drycells, then he will become a hero!

Steve
I saw an interesting video that showed that oxygen is actually attracted to magnetic fields. he proved this with liquid oxygen, a nice light blue color, poured it through a magnet. could you not just magnetically channel the oxygen???  have a branch off from your main line that magnetically "pulls" the oxygen into the pipe. Mind you this only works on the principal that hydrogen is not magnetic...

Ewok,

I have tried that with big magnets. The issue is that only liquid oxygen is magnetic and not oxygen gas.
Good suggestion, btw.
Hope you have more idea's!  :)

Steve



Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 11:58:31 am
BTW, you all seen the video of Stan standing besides his bug screaming how wonderfull is was that the bug ran on water, with that democell of his and the alternator besides the car.

Look at the beginning of that video....Stan removes something from the bug..very quickly.
My best gues is that he removed a small bucket with petrol for the startup procedure. That way he makes the engine do some revs to heat up a bit..

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 23, 2009, 21:16:34 pm
If BMW goes wth 50 C; I would go with it.
The bottom radiator pipe on watercooled engines should be around that temp.
Perhaps an exhaust heat exchanger for cold starts , then the above?
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2009, 15:38:47 pm
steve is easy to have h2 output and oxygen output. you just need a membrane between your electrodes. leather could help you...
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2009, 15:51:52 pm
If BMW goes wth 50 C; I would go with it.
The bottom radiator pipe on watercooled engines should be around that temp.
Perhaps an exhaust heat exchanger for cold starts , then the above?

yes, thats my idea as well. 50 degree C is a nice target.

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2009, 15:53:19 pm
steve is easy to have h2 output and oxygen output. you just need a membrane between your electrodes. leather could help you...

Leather? How resistance is that against NAOH or KOH?
What type leather?
Good idea, btw!

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2009, 18:31:38 pm
Percursion instruments type
I know it is resistant against naoh  ;D
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 24, 2009, 20:48:19 pm
Percursion instruments type
I know it is resistant against naoh  ;D

Ok, thanks, musicman... ;)
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2009, 16:25:41 pm
Well,

Here is an example on what doesnt work well.
This easy way out heatexchanger reached a temp of 50C, but the gasrate output is so enormous, that there no change in temperature of the HHO.

Arggggg. ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 27, 2009, 22:49:09 pm
Well,

Here is an example on what doesnt work well.
This easy way out heatexchanger reached a temp of 50C, but the gasrate output is so enormous, that there no change in temperature of the HHO.

Arggggg. ;)

Steve


Put the coil behind the pipes and simulate some wind!  :)

Seen this?
http://www.fintube.com/ (http://www.fintube.com/)
http://www.indiamart.com/badrin-industries/heat-transfer-equipment.html (http://www.indiamart.com/badrin-industries/heat-transfer-equipment.html)
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 28, 2009, 11:03:55 am
Well,

Here is an example on what doesnt work well.
This easy way out heatexchanger reached a temp of 50C, but the gasrate output is so enormous, that there no change in temperature of the HHO.

Arggggg. ;)

Steve


Put the coil behind the pipes and simulate some wind!  :)

Seen this?
http://www.fintube.com/ (http://www.fintube.com/)
http://www.indiamart.com/badrin-industries/heat-transfer-equipment.html (http://www.indiamart.com/badrin-industries/heat-transfer-equipment.html)

Nice websites...

Steve



Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on November 29, 2009, 23:30:28 pm
I think you are giving up on heating the HHO too soon Steve.

If you place your coil directly in the exhaust gass streem behind the tailpipe it should work well.

Then through a UV pool  bacteria killer to try get some monatomic H and perhaps O3 ...
Or perhaps this info may be helpfull:
http://www.rexresearch.com/leach/leach.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/leach/leach.htm)

Remember how a wet face-cloth is air proof?
Any wet ?cotten? type fabric should do to seperate H and O in a cell if you just want to radiate just hot H2 and not the O2.
Then the O2 and Air can cool the mix to 50C again.

'Aanhouer wen!'
 :)
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 11, 2009, 21:15:03 pm
I think you are giving up on heating the HHO too soon Steve.

If you place your coil directly in the exhaust gass streem behind the tailpipe it should work well.

Then through a UV pool  bacteria killer to try get some monatomic H and perhaps O3 ...
Or perhaps this info may be helpfull:
http://www.rexresearch.com/leach/leach.htm (http://www.rexresearch.com/leach/leach.htm)

Remember how a wet face-cloth is air proof?
Any wet ?cotten? type fabric should do to seperate H and O in a cell if you just want to radiate just hot H2 and not the O2.
Then the O2 and Air can cool the mix to 50C again.

'Aanhouer wen!'
 :)

Ja, meneer. Aanhouder wint.....Ik zal winnen.....Althans dat hoop ik.

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 17:23:57 pm
As far as separating Hydrogen from Oxygen maybe there is a machine out there that could be modified. People that need oxygen have a machine that concentrates Oxygen from air. I am not sure how they work but it may be a simple modification.
    Nick Landherr
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 18:59:14 pm
As far as separating Hydrogen from Oxygen maybe there is a machine out there that could be modified. People that need oxygen have a machine that concentrates Oxygen from air. I am not sure how they work but it may be a simple modification.
    Nick Landherr

Hi Nick,

I know that there are machines capable by using cold to make the oxygen a liguid and that way you can remove the oxygen..

We are still trying another way. It might be possible to ionionize the HHO and in that form the oxygen gets magnetic propertys...But thats still a theory...

So much to try, so little time and money... ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 19:11:12 pm
hello steve I re-read the thermal energy patent from meyer again

and thinking about seems he use the high voltage to cause atom aperture to allow the atom to absorb external energy.

I was Thinking that maybe if you try to use a heat exchanger together with the kind of high voltage exposition meyer proposed you could obtain what he calls thermal energy gain.

what do you think about?

Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 19:50:57 pm
pg 121 water fuel tech

Energy Aperture (7) of Figure (5-8) exists in all atomic structures (individual atoms) and functions as a
one-way energy valve when the Incoming Energy Vortex transfers a given or discrete amount of
"Universal Energy" (having higher energy potential) into the Energy Spectrum of the Atom to
compensate for and maintain "Atomic Energy Equilibrium" during either "quiescent" or "active" state of
tickling panicle oscillation as an energy generator (example, bouncing electrons in a sinusoidal-wave
form to its orbital path to cause electromagnetic wave oscillations) ... allowing the influx of "Universal
Energy" (Light Energy) to vortex inwardly toward the centre part of the "Gyroscopic" orbital spinvelocity
of nucleus panicles being displaced about a common axis of rotation ... the resulting
"Gyroscopic Action" regulating the inward flow or flow intensity of "Universal Energy" in direct
relationship to the orbital spin-velocity of the geometrical particle-structuring (interlocking particles
grouped in space relationship to each other) set in orbital motion, as illustrated in (570) of Figure (5-10).
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 20:29:03 pm
pg 121 water fuel tech

Energy Aperture (7) of Figure (5-8) exists in all atomic structures (individual atoms) [color=]and functions as a
one-way energy valve[/color] when the Incoming Energy Vortex transfers a given or discrete amount of
"Universal Energy" ([color=]having higher energy potential (hotter)[/color])into the Energy Spectrum of the Atom to
compensate for and maintain "Atomic Energy Equilibrium" during either "quiescent" or "active" state of
tickling panicle oscillation as an energy generator (example, bouncing electrons in a sinusoidal-wave
form to its orbital path to cause electromagnetic wave oscillations) ... allowing the influx of "Universal
Energy" (Light Energy) to vortex inwardly toward the centre part of the "Gyroscopic" orbital spinvelocity
of nucleus panicles being displaced about a common axis of rotation ... the resulting
"Gyroscopic Action" regulating the inward flow or flow intensity of "Universal Energy" in direct
relationship to the orbital spin-velocity of the geometrical particle-structuring (interlocking particles
grouped in space relationship to each other) set in orbital motion, as illustrated in (570) of Figure (5-10).

Look at the evidenced point

I think this could be a way of making the atoms absorbs chemically or atomically, heat energy or same as infrared energy.

Maybe the high voltage can cause the said atom aperture...

Maybe a gas treated this way don't heat up even being exposed to the heat because maybe energy goes straight into the atoms... making what stan said gaining thermal energy...

A heat source could be the engine heat losses or a turbine heat losses.

Collisions can cause heat... Particle oscillation as energy generator

High voltage dc can cause collisions too...

well it seems to have much to do with it.

I believed that the photoelectric effect was the responsible by the thermal energy gain but maybe i'm wrong. Heat can do work too. And can cause an electrode working function to be even lower. 



Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 20:47:20 pm
i think there is somthin here seb.. i was reading this paragraph right before i read ur latest post "thinking about seems he use the high voltage to cause atom aperture to allow the atom to absorb external energy."

its not thermal though i dont think.. on off time when light (laser) energy is being pulsed it allows a higher aborbtion of it i think..  stan describes it a little different verbally.. he says that on light time it keeps the electrons from collapsing.. and will allow a geometrical increase in state of energy.. and i beleive he speaks of the hydrogen atoms specifically
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 20:59:17 pm
I think yes there is something here.

maybe the gas processor makes the gas to absorb thermal energy from its own previous explosion. And probably you are right that the light and hv could cause this aperture to absorb the energy. And release a bigger than normal explosion.

We should work on this...

In the energetic forum users believing that only the laser and high voltage could do the job. (i believe that he is wrong) because he is only applying energy.

Re reading the patent i believe it could be the road to reach the thermal explosion increase, by not the energy applied but by the energy absorbed from the aperture in the atom caused by the energy applied.

In this case
Heat from losses will be needed as condition for this theory to hold. Maybe would not work in a heater application.


This would cause a resonance between the gas and the heat generated by the gas.

Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 22:17:33 pm
nice input!

at this moment, i am more thinking on how to apply hv to the hho, without getting blownup.....
Then see if we can get some magfields from the gas...

steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 06, 2010, 22:18:42 pm
Nice beat steve
Title: Re: Heat exchanger HHO
Post by: Login to see usernames on February 07, 2010, 17:53:09 pm
Quote
maybe the gas processor makes the gas to absorb thermal energy from its own previous explosion. And probably you are right that the light and hv could cause this aperture to absorb the energy. And release a bigger than normal explosion.

this may be a good possibilty with stans injector model reactor....  since it ejection port is linked to a thermal energy chamber (the cylinder) there is plenty of thermal radiant energy being released, i dont see why not if the high voltage acts as a primer for taking on radiant energy to the proton mass of the atom  which is allowing the electron to reach further orbits... stan says highvoltage  makes light travel inwardly why  couldnt it be abpsorbing the heat dissipating all throughout the block and tap into it..