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Engines On Water => How to run your car on hydrogen or water => Topic started by: Steve on October 25, 2009, 15:23:30 pm

Title: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 25, 2009, 15:23:30 pm
Some info on adjusting burnrates.


Steve
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 27, 2009, 18:50:20 pm
Good find Steve

The octane rating of H is around 130.
This means that the chances of it igniting from the heat of compression are MUCH lower than with Gasolene.
Increasing the compression ratio of the engine dramatically, or higher turbo boost, will be possible.
This will improve the efficiency of a hydrogen engine, or partial H engine, a lot!
(Increasing compression will allow the use of less H; something that has not been tried or tested in this type of community)


The energy required to ignite H is dramatically lower than that of gasolene however:
This means that any hot spots that were not issues in a gasolene engine may well become issues in a H (or partial H) engine.
Extra care will be needed to round off any sharp edges in the compustion chamber.

This goes hand in hand with the quench distance described in your document, that keeps metal surfaces from melting.
The quench distance of H is about 40% that of gasolene:  0.5mm as opposed to 1.2mm approximately.
This will increase the chances of hot spots dramatically.
It will also cause more heat to make it into the sleeve and head etc, which means that a bigger radiator might be required.


One also has to consider the extra Oxygen that will be in the cylinder from HHO:
This O will displace air; which is  about 78 % Nitrogen, and 2% other stuff.
So  if you displace 1 litre of air with O2 you will have 800 cc more burnable O2!
Nitrogen combines with air during the combustion stroke in an endothermic reaction. (heat used up)
This robs power from the engine, but also keeps temps within design specs.

The best way to get HHO to act more like air in a std. engine is probably the addition of water mist, as already used in Turbocharged  Gasolene Engines, etc.


Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 27, 2009, 19:43:29 pm
Its a subject that needs more investigation.... ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 30, 2009, 01:53:38 am
Its a subject that needs more investigation.... ;)

Steve

The info on octane rating, ignition energy, quench distance etc, is not sucked out of my thumb Steve.
I will find the info and link it, but not now.
Need to get a car running 1st anyway!  :)
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on October 30, 2009, 13:50:21 pm
I have done a test with a bottle of hydrogen and i ran my engine perfectly.
So easy too. That was H2.

The thing with HHO is that it is already in a perfect mix, but it doenst have the perfect volume...

Steve
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 07, 2010, 08:16:18 am
you say "Perfect mix" now it is perfect to make water (assuming no other gases are generated) But is that the best mix for power output???

The injection of water mist is a double edged sword. While it will quench hot spots on entry into the engine if an engine is left unsed oxidisation will happen ( this is reduced by the introduction of petrol and oils, maybe an oil additive sprayed with the water mist maybe more benificial)
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 07, 2010, 08:54:41 am
you say "Perfect mix" now it is perfect to make water (assuming no other gases are generated) But is that the best mix for power output???

The injection of water mist is a double edged sword. While it will quench hot spots on entry into the engine if an engine is left unsed oxidisation will happen ( this is reduced by the introduction of petrol and oils, maybe an oil additive sprayed with the water mist maybe more benificial)

As HHO the mix is the most powerfull. As soon as you start to change the amount of oxigen or hydrogen, you will have a less powerfull explosion.

HHO as additive to petrol is a totally different story.
Adding water to petrol engines running on petrol is also a different story.

My info is just based on running an ICE on Hydrogen without petrol.

regards
Steve
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 07, 2010, 15:09:05 pm
In the Stephen Meyer Radio interview he says stan started with running a 12 hp motor, then worked his way up, he says it took him years of trying, to get the ratio right

Are you still using your home-made carburator?
Title: Burn rate adjusting. How Nasa does it with SR-71 bomber plane
Post by: Login to see usernames on December 17, 2013, 15:10:40 pm
Using hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen and water mist.
Does that sounds familiar?

Have a look at this document, if you want  :)
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2016, 13:48:10 pm
Hey i'm new here but this place looks like a good place to get educated online input.
I'm thinking of converting a car to run on HHO. the car in mind has dual fuel injection system i.e Petroleum in one mode and LPG in the other. i'm wondering about how plausible is it to use HHO in the place of my usual LPG instead and what affects would i expect... I'm not sure if it''l perform poorly or simply kill the engine instantly and end up exploding or something...  :/
I know the basics of making HHO by making a generator and i have a gas tank (LPG run car), i guess i'll need another component to pressurize the gas into the tank???

input is appreciated. thanks in advance...
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 09, 2016, 14:02:19 pm
Hi and welcome.

Good to read that you want to try things with HHO.
First things first is safety, as i can speak from my own experience.
NEVER EVER EVER EVER PUT HHO UNDER PRESSURE IN A TANK. NEVER EVER STORE LARGE AMOUNTS OF HHO ANYWHERE.

So, now you know.
Thats the reason why we like to build a hydrogen on demand system.

Secondly, adding HHO to petrol makes sense, as we all know that the element in petrol that makes a car run are the hydrogen atoms.
So, it is better to inject the HHO into the airintake manifold .
Cheers!
Title: Re: Burn rate adjusting of HHO to the level of petrol
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 10, 2016, 06:44:38 am
Hey  Phenix and Steve,

i´m doing a big cell to make some tests with it too...

i´m doing a circuit that will get the rpm sensor signal to provide hydrogen proportional to the gasoline injected respecting the maximum it can generate...

also another thing that could be intersting is to study the injectors signal and see if make sense to use it instead as triger or control for the hydrogen production in demand.

the main idea is to increase the detonation of the gasoline raising the pressure/temperature gradients therefore theoretically reducing the energy in fuel to produce the output by increasing the efficiency of the burn... causing reducing in consumption theoretically..

about storage there is a guy using solar pannel to regenerate an hydride tank with special electrolyte/materials and acumulating hydrogen... when hydrogen is to be released just few heat is added to liberate hydrogen from the hydrides.. he ran a car with the tank..