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Projects by members => Projects by members => Webmug => Topic started by: webmug on June 09, 2009, 21:27:00 pm

Title: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 09, 2009, 21:27:00 pm
Work in progress!!! ::)

Completed upgrades:
- New motor 3 phase / 1.1kW / 50Hz / 2876rpm
- Pulley 1:2 alternator max 5752rpm
- WFC version 2 / 6 cells / 10 cm length
- Frequency regulator (for stable rpm regulation )

New tasks to preform:

- Need to find stable RPM, GATE and PULSE frequencies.
- HHO gas production measuring
- Calculating efficiency
- WFC current sensor
- Microprocessor PWM, GATE signal generator
- Booster diodes

Need some help from you guys to find resonance...

Made a screengrab of the signal over the WFC @3600rpm.

br
Webmug
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 09, 2009, 22:38:33 pm
looking nice and clean, Webmug!
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2009, 00:58:16 am
step number 1,

buy some heavy coat 26 awg.. take the alternator and open it up. remove the stator core and winds (the outside ring) cut and remove heavy gauge copper from the core... find somthin 1.25" in dia like some pvc or somthin.. you are gonna use that to hand wind some new stators.. i would try to make like 50 winds per loop or more, there should be 3 seperate sets with i think 13 loops a each.. put those on the alternator stator core.. you will find more induction, smaller gauge (less amps) and will have way more volts then a stock alternator..
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2009, 01:16:34 am
dont waste any $

thatll help
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2009, 10:43:18 am
step number 1,

buy some heavy coat 26 awg.. take the alternator and open it up. remove the stator core and winds (the outside ring) cut and remove heavy gauge copper from the core... find somthin 1.25" in dia like some pvc or somthin.. you are gonna use that to hand wind some new stators.. i would try to make like 50 winds per loop or more, there should be 3 seperate sets with i think 13 loops a each.. put those on the alternator stator core.. you will find more induction, smaller gauge (less amps) and will have way more volts then a stock alternator..

 Warp aka hydrocars aka Brian done that. So he can advise you in that, if you like.

br
Steve
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2009, 13:15:42 pm
If the blue line is the charge on he wfc, then it still sees the alternator pulses when the gate is off.
I'd first take a look at that?
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2009, 16:39:44 pm
Some more screenshots:

@3589Rpm on the Alternator.

First with long duty on the gate signal (the WFC fully discharged in gate off period)
Second shot with shorter duty (the WFC does not fully discharge in gate off period)

br
Webmug
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 10, 2009, 17:15:24 pm
If the blue line is the charge on he wfc, then it still sees the alternator pulses when the gate is off.
I'd first take a look at that?

Yes, you are right! Thanks for that... The yellow one must be the EEC driver signal. It must be the inverted gate driver signal on the FET (N-type ;D) to switch on the rotor.

br
Webmug
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 14, 2009, 11:46:10 am
(http://)
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2009, 19:45:30 pm
Hi All,

Continuing testing.

The following movie demonstrates the setup, currently using a kick start (switch) because I run it on low rpm for now (1720)
Only using 125 Watt (230V) in loop mode on the motor.

Continuing working on stable freq generation with micro controller to get resonance.

br,
Webmug
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2009, 22:09:47 pm
Hi webmug,

Great video!

I have a question. I see a step-up ramp sinewave.
Do you use any bifilar coil, or chokes in this setup?

br
Steve
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 15, 2009, 23:15:43 pm
Hi webmug,

Great video!

I have a question. I see a step-up ramp sinewave.
Do you use any bifilar coil, or chokes in this setup?

br
Steve

No coils, chokes are currently used.

It looks like the alternator is amplifying itself through the loop.
When I use less power restriction going through the loop the volts go higher and higher (stepup) over the WFC [100+Volt] (never tested higher because of some components) but the motor also uses more power to compensate to the requested rpm.
In this video I used only 10% of the motors ratings.
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2009, 08:58:37 am
@Webmug
Depending on how much load is actually on the alternator (higher load=more resistance seen by the power motor)...you can use a larger pulley on the motor to change torque to higher RPMs. Of course a limit is reached where the shift from torque to higher RPM will not allow the motor to start up...so the limit would be reached experimentally, or you could calculate it if your math is excellent :D
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 16, 2009, 13:57:00 pm
Beautiful set up webmug :)

If you are looking for some chokes to try, consider a bobbin with cavities, and the chokes wound bifilar in the cavities, I am convinced this is the proper way to make resonant charging chokes because of the "distributed inductance and capacitance" this design provides, which allows the greater storage of both electric energy and magnetic energy, and one look at the Lorentz Force equation and you know that is going to have a huge impact on some electrons.

I'll be testing this myself once I get some things together, but since you are all set up it could be a good idea.
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 17, 2009, 00:31:34 am
You have phases in the alternator, Each coil is wrapped 120 degree's from the other. Each alternator is different.

Alternators have anywhere between 6 to 8 poles on the rotors, Stators vary to matching the rotors. At 3500 rpms with the right pulse train, in my case about 700 to 1000 hertz you get this effect. The frequency depends on the hardware of the alternator. If you have no load after the cell i've recommended then your water could be less conductive, try more in parallel.

The highest voltage you should ever read across any cell is 35 volts, Ideal is around 20 volts, you can also Full wave without the use of 6 diodes, you can full wave with only 2 diodes, This gives you even lower voltages and higher square waves. The setup is not that easy to most, If you have an eye for what to do its a cake walk.

Good luck, It looks like plenty here understands my and stevies setup, assuming you're trying for the waveform i posted.
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 17, 2009, 01:00:40 am
What I dont like about an alternator is the obvious power requirements and frequency limitations , it is 50% inneficient right from the start

But what If we could emulate the alternator by means of a sin wave amplified and phase locked signal it well enough so that is is identical in function ?  I am currently investigating this possibility .
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2009, 18:55:45 pm
I'm adding a couple of  diodes to the setup, called "booster diodes".

In theory they deliver 10% more power to the WFC when any third harmonic occurs.

br
Webmug
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2009, 19:25:17 pm
@Webmug
Very nice setup!  What are you using to generate your GATE and PULSE frequencies?
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 09, 2009, 19:56:50 pm
Right now I'm building this improved setup.

br
Webmug
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 10, 2009, 07:16:10 am
For the same number of turns and wire thickness: DELTA gives 1.73 higher power and amp draw than STAR
DELTA Kv (RPM)  = 1.73 higher than STAR Kv while the Kt (torque) = 1.73 lower
With a STAR connection, 1.732 more turns need to be wound to get the same power (and Kv) as with DELTA
In case you're wondering: 1.73 = sqrt(3)

Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 10, 2009, 15:47:43 pm
if you do delta then you have no neutral to connect to the negative tube? what do you do instead
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 10, 2009, 16:05:36 pm
looks good webmug

that looks like a good sim you got there .
Title: Re: Alternator setup v2.0.0 (looped)
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 10, 2009, 17:11:12 pm
Have been working the alternator for some time now.
Also did some rewinds and practiced on the small cores.

First one I like the best, cut the standard winding at the half way point around and tapped that for neutral.
That will work with Wye or Delta.

Larger alternators come with bifilar windings.
I have the diesal alternator coming and the core will be near twice as large.

For testing purposes I pull all the wiring outside the alternator and make the diode and connection terminals outside.

GM si10 alternator is 42 poles. Kevin West does a lot of neat things and on the si10 used only 36 complete wells and the last 6 are just half the winds.
Meyer used a Ford diesal alternator large core and large case 36 wells and rotor is 6 magnetic poles each side, 6 N 6 S.
The one in the picture is a small case Ford, 36 wells and poles.

WEBMUG sorry to post this in your projects, I will remove it if you want.