Author Topic: The hole in the tank  (Read 1248 times)

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The hole in the tank
« on: June 22, 2012, 16:47:34 pm »

I'm suspecting of something:

There is a paradox in physics that explain how energy disappear when you connect two capacitors of same value being one previously charged and the other not.

Since Q=V*C and E=0,5*C*V^2

The energy that was originally in the first capacitor becomes only one quarter when the charge is shared between the two capacitors.

Charge conservation is aways valid, and the ability to transfer charge between systems must follow energy conservation.

Is the same for Momentum conservation, When a mass collide with another mass of equal amount at a velocity V the momentum of the first is given by p=m*v as the momentum must conserve and the masses after the collision becomes double, the final velocity must be half. So if the kinetic energy is given by Ek=0,5*m*V^2  the energy of the system decreased just like in the capacitor case because although the mass-capacitance increase the voltage-velocity decrease with a square factor. The charge than is the equivalent to momentum halved in this case.

An example that can explain the idea of the energy disappearing in the two capacitor example is the following. Take two tanks one full of water, and other empty where the water is analogous to the charge, now on the bottom of the tanks you connect a tube between them, (lets say is large enough and long enough to behave just like the inductor (inertia) so when you open the valve the 1° tank will discharge the water into the second one however when both tanks have exactly the same amount of water, the water inside the tube still get speed so it continue to send water to the second tank making its level of water become higher than the first. If there was a one way valve there the second tank would end up with more water than remained at the first tank. However our tube wasn't a one way valve and so when the water speed inside the tube became 0 the pressure differential between the two tanks will make the water from the second tank come back to the first and so on until the amount of water in both tanks become equal.
Being the potential energy Ep = mass*Gravity*H   and the kinetic energy Ek=0,5*mass*velocity^2

This explain exactly what happens in the case of the two capacitors.   

Let's return to the 1° case of the two capacitors, but now lets put a coil and a diode between them. What happens now is that almost all the energy in the first capacitor goes to the second and the first remain almost discharged. So almost no energy lost. The diode only lets electricity to flow in one direction so there won't be that oscillation observed on the example with the water tanks.

Now i would like to raise the following question:

An analog example of resonance is to swing a pendulum against gravity, its equilibrium position will be where the heavier side of the pendulum point toward the ground because of gravity force.

When you have a resonant tank (1 capacitor and 1 inductor) LC network, it is a system out of equilibrium because if you stop inputting energy into it the energy accumulated tends to go towards 0. Like the pendulum example where it returns to the position of equilibrium. This mean than that every time you want to charge it you got to start from 0. There is no net charge into the system. Is like the example of the water tanks but you get two empty tanks to start with.

Now lets suppose you get two capacitors and a coil closing a circuit, it became now a series resonance circuit where the effective capacitance is equal to the half of each capacitance assuming they where equal, (because they are in series). Now in series you add a square wave frequency generator with the frequency F and voltage Vt. And lets assume the impedance of the tank circuit is Z at resonance and its reactance XL.

Where Z^2=R^2+(Xl-Xc)^2 at resonance Z=R and XL=XC


And XL=2*pi*F*L

The current flowing I = Vt/Z   while the resonant voltage Vresonance=I*XL 

From the equation for the voltage as a function of the charge for a capacitor we get that it depends linearly on charge, while from the energy equation we find that as a function of voltage the energy depends on the voltage squared.

So now we got two capacitors and a coil on the tank. Now lets fill the capacitors with Dc say up to 10kv (analogous to have those two water tanks half full)

The greater the voltage (charge) applied to a capacitor the greater is the amount of energy required to keep adding charge to it.

Now if we resonate this system with a current enough to make the resonant voltage = to 10kv there will be alternately 20kv at time into each capacitor. And none of them would surpass an arbitrary ground.

If the capacitors were initially empty, the Z would be the same, so as the applied voltage, current and resultant voltage.

I don't know if you already understood my point so i will stop here and wait for questions.

I think that i created in theory a kind of maxwell demon.

And i think it could be just what tesla did
 donald L smith did
scott mckie
maybe also stanley meyer ...
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 19:36:20 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: The hole in the tank
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2012, 08:02:53 am »
I many of the drawings of tesla, there are two capacitors and interruptors...

Scott Mckie uses two tanks with lots of switches.

Donald L smith uses high voltage capacitors, coils ...

Stanley Meyer ...

Paul brown...

I'm talking about a method not for converting energy from one form into another... But to create organization in the same way a maxuel demon works.

In the case of the maxwel demon it selects molecules with higher kinetic energy and let them to pass trhu a portal...

In the case here, it seems its possible to charge two capacitors and than put the charge of the capacitor one into the second by use of resonance instead of using the convention that says you can't transfer the energy from a capacitor with lower voltage to one having a higher voltage. Simply impossible. hum

The thing is that when i create a resonance within this system the energy on the capacitors alternate 180° so when all the energy (voltage charge) goes to the capacitor having the higher voltage the other is disconnected, re-charged and reconnected to transfer once again more charge,,, 

So if for setup this resonant oscillation i'm able to spend less in terms of energy than would spend to really charge the second capacitor to a given voltage over unity condition is created.

Scott mckie says he can rotate the referential frame of a system only using a potential. I was reading his patent this days than i got this idea... Actually i thought of this before some time ago but i wasn't able to understand well this mechanism. Nor the idea of an empty tank...

If every cycle i add for example a given voltage fixed, the energy in the end would be a aritimetic progression within the number of cycles...

I'm saying that if you start with 1 joule the second cycle you get 2 than next will become 4 joules the next 9 joules the next 15 joules
as you can see first i added 1 than 3 than 5 than 7.... and so on. And ever cycle i'm only charging the first capacitor with the same 1 joule.

I'm expecting that using resonance to provide for this oscillation to send the voltage from one capacitor to the other i'm not limited to power input x power output like stan says. Because at resonance an oscillation Amplitude or voltage depends on the Vt applied and the resistance of the coil and frequency. so i can get for example 1v 100khz and a resistance of 1ohm and the _XL being 10000 I have 10kv across the components and still i'm spending only 1 watt. much better figures can be obtained so i'm pretty interested and betting its possible.

In terms of operability the pll adapted to a H bridge gated, using the gate to act on the switching between charge and discharge cycle...

During the charge cycle the ac is turned off. leaking resistors across the capacitors must be totally avoided.

If don't work as ou device it will at least generate high voltages..

« Last Edit: June 23, 2012, 09:53:21 am by sebosfato »