Author Topic: Magnetic particle accelerator  (Read 5182 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Login to see usernames

  • Administrator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 4541
    • water structure and science
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #8 on: April 20, 2012, 22:50:23 pm »
Muller motor, romeroUK replications, Bedini SSG etc etc.
Oneof the lenz beating up option is coil shorting.
I know its a lot of reading, but give it a try, Sebos...

http://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/shorting-coils-circuits


http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8344-coil-shorting-techniques.html

http://www.overunity.com/3842/muller-dynamo/5490/

Konehead is the member on that forum who can explain it well.


http://www.overunity.com/9720/fuelless-car-prototype-by-ismael-motor/msg275031/




Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3634
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2012, 16:43:29 pm »
I will take the time to check it out...

Take a look at this simpler design... probably could be done with a bicycle wheel...

I think the big deal here is that is possible to use the attraction which increase as it approach the center while still use the repel force, that diminish increasing the distance...

Normally motors use repulsion or attraction or both but aways in a separated manner.. for each field.
« Last Edit: April 21, 2012, 18:11:03 pm by sebosfato »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3634
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2012, 19:31:24 pm »
i think this is easier design...

Adding a secondary over all primary coils with fields adding, would make of it a rotary core transformer... what would be the output?
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 19:17:02 pm by sebosfato »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3634
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2012, 07:32:43 am »
Hello again,

I think i need  to remake the question.

When we input energy in the coils, the coils are creating a magnetic field that goes to the secondary set and also sets up the motion of the magnets, attracting one and repelling the other.
Does the approximation of the magnet induce in the coil a magnetic field in the opposite direction, canceling the initial field or would it compose with that field increasing its intensity?
Anyone know it?



Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3634
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2012, 19:15:27 pm »
Thinking about the back electromotive force in a transformer, its a field that is generated when you extract energy from it with a second coil, and that field, cancel the other, so as the opposition to the variation of the field... and therefore reduce the effective inductance of the primary, by mutual induction coupling...

So a magnet approaching a shorted coil is repelled by it so there is what is called a BEMF


However in the situation here where the magnet is attracted to the center of the coil by the primary, while it is repelled by the secondary load... i think the key might be there... to cancel the BEMF from the secondary with the MMF of the magnet being attracted... because as the secondary is creating an opposing field, as long as the load BEMF is not heavier than the MMF attraction between primary and the magnet the magnet is allowed to move forwards...

I'm still not sure if attracting a magnet inside a coil consumes energy or not... I mean the same Steorn talked about... If you input energy into a coil you put it in form of amps, the lower the resistance and inductance, the lower is the energy you need to put amps into it (volts = joules/coulomb).. How many joules you need for each coulomb you pass thru it) But now, with the moving magnet as you input amps the inductance increases, so the energy accumulated into the coil should increases,,,

If that is so...

'Could it really be that simple?
'
If so a super conducting material and a way to pulse high amps low volts thru the coils would do the job?, to create energy... wouldn't

I'm not sure how the efficiency of a motor is determined... i think the losses in the wiring could be around 30% maybe not... in transformers can be less than 10%...

Stan said the problem with over unity is to avoid this BEMF...

Design the idea,.

You have a coil shorted.. and a magnet close to it... now you put a piece of iron at the other side of the coil so the magnet is attracted to the iron, pass inside the coil and generate a EMF on that coil which makes current flow... what happened there

If the experiment is repeated with coil not shorted, the time it take to the magnet get the other side is much smaller....

This tell me that the greater will be the load the lower will be the frequency...

So the magnetic potential in this configuration analogous to the gravitational potential energy is the same in both configurations but the it time takes to the first case is different... some how the energy conversion involve thereto a time relation...  The slower the magnet flow the greater the energy is being consumed...

Interesting...
« Last Edit: April 23, 2012, 19:31:39 pm by sebosfato »

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Sr. member
  • ***
  • Posts: 349
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #13 on: April 24, 2012, 03:55:50 am »
Sebs, I just read through everything and I can't say I understood everything (over my head) but it sounds like this is going to be a very complex build. Also, I think friction is going to come into play here. Maybe if the tube was filled with oil it would help. But I would imagine it would still have to be accounted for for the coil timing. What kind of magnets are you planning on using? I'll reread the parts I didn't understand when I have more time.

Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3634
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2012, 06:01:42 am »
hello dave,
i agree with you... not simple...

Today i discovered a possible flaw in the theory... Because i think that while the magnet is attracted into the coil it would induce a contrary flux so basically there should be low or no EMF at the secondary... In theory.

In practice i don't know... Stan was not stupid so if his epg worked like this it might be a light in the end of the way.. otherwise it would mean that his epg worked with different principle..

I plan to use small cylindrical magnets or couples of sphere magnets


Offline Login to see usernames

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero member
  • ****
  • Posts: 3634
Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2012, 17:55:15 pm »
Today i understood something more about the impedance of generators..

a generator uses a magnet transversing a coil or vice versa... this generate an EMF at the coil ends.. this EMF is AC thereto the current coming out of it depends on its impedance or inductance...

I had a trouble developing a eolic generator that only used neo magnets and coreless coils... because the impedance of the coils increase with the length of the wire so as the EMF and similarly with the frequency does not matter the diameter of the wire...

I though of something...

If we have a capacitor in series with this (fixed speed) generator coil there will be a frequency where the Z will be zero so all the EMF generated goes to the resistor... but current will be 90° de-phased from the EMF... and thereto there will be energy accumulated in the system, and the voltages across the components will be greater than the EMF, Q times...

could this de-phase of current EMF help avoid the BEMF or the component would be even greater since the impedance don't exists anymore and the load is receiving ohms law current related to the EMF generated?