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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on July 20, 2015, 15:46:45 pm

Title: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2015, 15:46:45 pm
I was thinking a way to prove that work could be extracted from voltage if we prevent electron from flowing... what does it mean...

i analized xray or tv tubes to see why meyer mention them every time...

the idea is to use a voltage source to induce in a circuit a certain potential from one source where also charging in parallel a coil system like with lower resistance to dc... and having both connected to ground on one side and a xray bulb filament on the other side... when the voltage source is applied (pulse forming network, secondary, whatever) the coil in parallel is charged to the same voltage... but as it has a lower dc resistance it allow to keep the filament emiting the electrons flowing a current in a direction contrary to the current on voltage source that may include diodes that will increase the resistance of the  source...so as the current is in the opposite direction it can't consume power,,, while you still releasing electrons at very high neg voltage... i think the secret is to not create this voltage drop...

i now seem to have understood that and may now be able to apply...


i analyzed the vic from this new point of view and found that 16 different connections could be made with the coils with my theory..

basically are 4 different configurations but than double to invert chokes polarities and inverting the cells doubles again... so 16 possibilities..

i reduced one by one trying to seek what was going to happen but now i'm going to start trying it..

Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 20, 2015, 21:11:45 pm
Great start!!
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2015, 01:17:25 am
in the common meyer drawing there are 8 different drawings possible...

i'm checking wich configuration should behave the way i believe correct for the reaction for happening... i'm looking into ckts where high electric fields are present...

i ended up with a conclusion that if the chokes where connected the way meyer draw it should create a high voltage at the cell at a phase angle related to the diference between the coils... meaning that if the coils are connected in series with oposing fields the high voltage will be negative ahead of current depending on the coils ratio or positive...

if the coils add the high voltage is on contrary to one another... so the potential is low.. also the core is more subject to saturation...

so i think the wiper arm could be the secret...

and i went all the way to the maximum configuration of course not shorting it like the drawing propose...

here i came up with this 16 ways of looking at it..

to make this possible i divided the ckts into

positive inside=pi

positive outside=po

choke outside=co

choke inside=ci

(wiper arm choke)

so i called them

co/po ci/pi co/pi ci/po

inverting the choke polarities you get more 4... co/po ci/pi co/pi ci/po 's

and inverting the primary another 8 so 16....

co/po ci/pi co/pi ci/po
co/po ci/pi co/pi ci/po
co/po ci/pi co/pi ci/po
co/po ci/pi co/pi ci/po
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2015, 11:51:01 am
Hope to join in soon......
Still working on my PWM.....
VIC is ready. Cell is ready....

Good stuff, Fabio!
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 21, 2015, 18:45:26 pm
I'm happy you like

wish we were a big team working here we would solve it in one day maybe..

I'm ready to go test wish me luck bros

my idea is to use the chokes as a mean to modulate the electric fields applied by the secondary to the cell.. .

for that i just follow meyer diagram and observed the wiper arm and analyzed in some positions... max min if you get me...

i mean in some cases could seem like theres only one choke in series with the cells and diode..the other...do what? where?

modulate what?

well i get my theories.. i think that the cell works like a tv set..

or maybe that is a cell that actually amplifies energy if you follow a sequence of steps.. and i mean joules..

the idea is simple if we could charge a capacitor and make it in such way that when we charge it up to very high voltage fields and is allowed to discharge at the very high voltage field.. something is going to happen..

initially there was no charge on the capacitor.. than you apply charge across it and it will have yet net zero charge... than you charge one side to very high voltage... what happens inside? than you discharge this capacitor....isnt it possible to discharge it in this condition? would it lose the net field?

the fields add
yes
no

is a matter of timing i guess...


Title: Ok here it is!
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 23, 2015, 13:12:59 pm
after a good restoring sleep of 2 hours.. i woke and started to try remembering my theories when i first start...

i remembered my old setups and many things i did...

i have to tell you.... n0w i now how meyer break the bound,,, is not that hard.. but i needed the sure of years of information to simple have the discernment to judge this is what he did.. and horvath too.. probably dingel and danfor and my dear friend in south too.

it didn't worked yet, but its a theory that has come in cord with my theory of the fields and i have thought it way long time ago and discussed also in the forums here.

the problem is... it is so plain stupid...and about timing and polarity

i won't tell here on public what it is.. for those with pure heart will understand why i do that.

so i will just tell you one thing

Meyer called it the electrical polarization process.

Because?

What do you know about it?
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2015, 17:22:14 pm
http://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/estatics/Lesson-1/Polarization
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 26, 2015, 20:26:11 pm
so what these are just dielectrics..
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 27, 2015, 13:58:14 pm
yes steve this is the way!

i'm testing my theory but yet didn't worked.. but i'm damn sure is all about timing...

I think the important thing to understand from your source is that a polarized object is not a charged object.
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2015, 14:24:33 pm
yes steve this is the way!

i'm testing my theory but yet didn't worked.. but i'm damn sure is all about timing...

I think the important thing to understand from your source is that a polarized object is not a charged object.

Hi Fabio,

I have here a vandergraaf generator and i ran some tests with it.
Not one buble sofar.
I tried several setups. Two electrodes in the waterbath. Also one electrode in the bath and the cup with water on the metal hood....

Maybe somebody else have ideas on how to get the charge from the VDG into a waterbath?
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2015, 15:57:07 pm
Are you going back to the grounded capacitors ? The timing is important, if there are 2 cylinders in series ground/+ -/ground the capacitors are formed when charge flows through ground to outer electrode but this way current comes from the battery, if you cut the battery when you open the ground, charge and current comes from the ground , maybe if you find ultrafast electronics it will work but you have to reach speeds close to speed of light. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_electricity
Title: Re: voltage perform work? - VdG
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2015, 17:16:58 pm

I have here a vandergraaf generator and i ran some tests with it.
Not one buble sofar.
I tried several setups. Two electrodes in the waterbath. Also one electrode in the bath and the cup with water on the metal hood....

Maybe somebody else have ideas on how to get the charge from the VDG into a waterbath?

You have to use an Intermediate Electrode (IE).  A small cymbol from a drum set works quite well, but the lid from a sauce pan might also work.  The IE is centered and suspended a short distance above the top of the VdG.  This will cause thin little sparks to discharge from the VdG to the bottom of the IE.  With an unconnected IE, after a while a heavy yellow spark will shoot from the top of the VdG to the middle of the IE, and a lot of yellow sparks will shoot out from the edge of the IE.  Every pair of these rim sparks will fork together, kicking the cymbol off to one side or another.  (Just like a flying saucer, but without enough energy to lift.)

The connection wire from the IE to the Cell should have around eight losely spaced windings around a half inch air core, to prevent the main discharge from going to the Cell, should it happen.  Other wise, pulses to the Cell will occur with the little sparks between the VdG and the IE.  With more than one Cell, each should be connected to its own region of the IE.  The cell's other electrode should be grounded.
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 28, 2015, 22:59:36 pm
Hey Steve, oh boy thats pretty nice!!!

is it positive or negative one? i guess negative right?

i'm not sure but you could use it as a source of pulsing high voltage if you get a proper spark gap right?

what frequency would it generate?

at this point i would polarize the cell and shot with it... of course you need some chokes on the polarization part..
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 29, 2015, 13:51:00 pm
picture of the device
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 30, 2015, 02:45:35 am
Wow!  THAT's a Van de Graaf generator.  That one looks like it'll produce 500 kV to 750 kV.  I've read that the frequency of the little sparks it makes is around 100 kHz.  Just right for electrolysis.
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 30, 2015, 23:15:29 pm
good work man

i'm working into something here too.. i guess it will can go up to 200kv in a less than a use

does it creates those sparks on water? how about salt water?
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 30, 2015, 23:22:05 pm
Thanks for the input, my friends.
I will try it all soon.
And no. No saltwater has been tried.
Also the interim electrode not.
The goal was to see if a high potential difference would be capable of doing work on the water mol.
Maybe i should use a glas electrode and a nylon one?
The trick of bending water with a ballone was leading for me to try this vdg machine...

Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on July 31, 2015, 15:51:32 pm
i also have being thought a lot about building one!

however i also think that maybe stan didn't used one... but after seeing those sparks i wanted to give a shot too... that why i had those ideals of what to do with it..

i'm working on multistage lc vector generator and on spiral too....

i guess the idea is if voltage perform work how does it accomplish it and where!

i was thinking can you think a way to get around those 1,23v of the cell to make electrolysis?

i was thinking about inverting the vectors with a couple of sandwich cells to see if could cancel this electrostatic minima...

you may know that the main problem on electrolysis is this build up of charge, in the end it is a capacitor...

 
Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 01, 2015, 19:07:12 pm
the capacitance of my spiral was 63nf in air now i'm filling into oil so it should raise 3 fold.. i'm just finishing the vacuum chamber for it... it was two sheets of 9 meters of copper and two layers of paper giving around 0.3mm space and pressing the core would give more than 4mh.. i didnt counted the turns but i will try to find by calculating.. from measured value... an oil capacitor...

Title: Re: voltage perform work?
Post by: Login to see usernames on August 02, 2015, 06:58:41 am
due to some humidity after i left it drying on vacuum for 3 hours the capacitance decreased to 53nf... after adding oil it raised and after 5 hours of vacuum to 115nf but it still decrease to 105 while the pump is on so theres some air that don't want to come off from there... my vacuum may be insufficient for that but probably is just enough.. i need to improve the seal.. the chamber was one of my acrylic tube cells so there was some air in leaks... i hope to solve with more teflon tape...