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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on March 12, 2015, 20:16:20 pm

Title: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 12, 2015, 20:16:20 pm
The voltage intensifier circuit works as follows..

the primary step up a pulse to the secondary coil... the pulse passes thru the diode and goes thru the two chokes to the water charging it. When the pulse terminates, the chokes reverse its voltage so across the diode and secondary (input) another positive pulse will come out, however there is a time with no voltage potential present to little negative . If the inductors are allowed to collapse to a higher voltage than the secondary the diode will conduct during pulse off too..  doubling the frequency

the frequency doubling can be seeing from the capacitor perspective too...

the higher the voltage the secondary collapse the higher the inductors will be allowed to collapse..and so on...so         During the collapse the capacitor and inductor voltage initially subtracts from each other although not changing the polarity of the cell or current flow since a coil resist the change in current with a voltage... thereto the pulse doubling... the choke acts as a modulator...

Since there is moment where the cell plus coil become zero volts my impression is that we can keep adding charges to the water during this time... here is what meyer talks restricted current allow voltage to take over and do the work...
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2015, 14:57:24 pm
well thats my point of view... wold you give yours?


in addition... during the first pulse no pulse is seeing from the cell side... guess why...

plus when the choke must collapse the vic act as a sort of load so the primary is part of that... and thats why there should be those resistors and diodes...

I would like to know if you maybe see something in my description different than that what meyer have described... 

All this i simulated on my mind because the circuit simulator does not have the asymmetrical capacitors... so i had to follow step by step analyzing whats going on with the potential over the circuit...

Remember that the sum of the potential around a closed loop is zero!

I thank Mr Ronnie Walker and team for the inspiration and for the coffees that didn't let me sleep!

We hope their team can share with us mortals the all points behind this.. 
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2015, 15:38:16 pm
the water cell is a variable capacitor capacitance depends on voltage

all these electrical circuit theories and nobody says where the energy will come from... it has to come from somewhere it can't be created or destroyed bla bla bla
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2015, 17:01:50 pm
Hello Geon

I guess the energy come from the electric potential action just as him said we are just relocating the atoms... i don't think we are breaking any rules doing this...

If the capacitor is already charged how can you add current to it?

i think the energy come from inside the atom as according to meyer words we are just releasing it.

the capacitance that changes if you change the voltage is the double layer capacitance... in series with it there is a much much lower capacitance in series (the water) having a resistor in parallel)... I'm not sure we are trying to hit that capacitance... rather i think this capacitance is what acts to restrict the current...

Also if the water is very pure it lacks the ions required for the double layer capacitance to exit..

My cells here has around 600Ohms at 60v applied dc..water around 7 or 8 PPM now... i'm doing graphs of the impedance of the cell as function of applied voltage..and ppm.. (purity) .and doing some other data analysis that should help understand more about it too..

I just found something very interesting... when first connected the cell initially consume more amps and this consume decay after the cell is charged.. .for example

it would draw 200ma and than reduce to 100ma with 60v applied... after its charged i can interrupt the circuit and it won't consume 200ma again it goes from 100ma...

the same happen if the cell is charged and i reverse the connections.. actually it takes few seconds to the cell get charged...


My best guess is that the gas bubbles forming on the electrodes reduce the current... but not only that.. because it wouldn't explain why it takes so long to charge and wouldn't explain the high current when reversed the wires.. my best guess is that i reverse the wires the gases entrapped on the electrodes acts as fuel cell..

Aoother thing i found is that the resistance is very high at very low voltage but rapidly decrease and than  increase again as i raise the voltage. 

i tested from 0 to 60v for now..
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2015, 21:02:59 pm
The capacitance can vary also with pure water probably. Water acts as variable resistor because of dipole moment. 
If  there's no current then it's not electrolysis.
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 13, 2015, 23:57:13 pm
I think thats a very strange behavior... on the data acquisition graph i can clearly see an exponential just like if it were a capacitor of huge value... i think the resistance is reduced by the bubbles but this huge charge that flows seems to go to charging this double layer capacitance since it should be a quite high value...

I think i can track the capacitance value with the values of the graph.... i will try this graph for different voltages to see if the exponential is different... 

If my water has 7ppm now and around 600ohms per cell how much would it be if the water was 0ppm ?

i'm going to check that now..
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 08:51:23 am
You need hydrophillic electrodes and a radiant energy source preferably in the OH stretch region IR and UV.  That is if you want double layer with pure water.
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 14:32:49 pm
The voltage intensifier circuit works as follows..

the primary step up a pulse to the secondary coil... the pulse passes thru the diode and goes thru the two chokes to the water charging it. When the pulse terminates, the chokes reverse its voltage so across the diode and secondary (input) another positive pulse will come out, however there is a time with no voltage potential present to little negative . If the inductors are allowed to collapse to a higher voltage than the secondary the diode will conduct during pulse off too..  doubling the frequency

the frequency doubling can be seeing from the capacitor perspective too...

the higher the voltage the secondary collapse the higher the inductors will be allowed to collapse..and so on...so         During the collapse the capacitor and inductor voltage initially subtracts from each other although not changing the polarity of the cell or current flow since a coil resist the change in current with a voltage... thereto the pulse doubling... the choke acts as a modulator...

Since there is moment where the cell plus coil become zero volts my impression is that we can keep adding charges to the water during this time... here is what meyer talks restricted current allow voltage to take over and do the work...

I already made reference to this.   
Take a look at these two sections under the following link:  http://www.richieburnett.co.uk/dcreschg.html

Extinction Frequencies

De-Q-ing the charging circuIt
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 16:12:46 pm
well ts that makes a kind of sense but as i'm saying here this system seems a little more special... in that there is no spark gap from what i know...

i will aways try to ressume it for i can understand better and possibly all other... recapitulation

i did more tests yesterday i achieved up to 3500kohm (@ 0 ppm), of resistance per cell! isn't that nice ?

today i re-filtered the water i'm about to test again....

the meter won't show less than 0 ppm so i guess the idea is to actually measure the dc resistance will be a good indication for you all

i already verified this.. the purity can be brought to the maximum if a pumped filter is implemented recirculating the water to the filter and cell...
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 16:17:06 pm
i was wandering if meyer used the double layer capacitance as a mean to restrict  the current like in the tay hee han patent...probably is a bad idea to have straight dc across the cell, otherwise this capacitance gets charged and current can flow... the current depends on the electric fields and resistance of the material
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 16:22:43 pm
well ts that makes a kind of sense but as i'm saying here this system seems a little more special... in that there is no spark gap from what i know...

i will aways try to ressume it for i can understand better and possibly all other... recapitulation

i did more tests yesterday i achieved up to 3500kohm (@ 0 ppm), of resistance per cell! isn't that nice ?

today i re-filtered the water i'm about to test again....

the meter won't show less than 0 ppm so i guess the idea is to actually measure the dc resistance will be a good indication for you all

i already verified this.. the purity can be brought to the maximum if a pumped filter is implemented recirculating the water to the filter and cell...

While an interesting experiment, I'm not sure this is practical. Meyers indicated that all forms of natural water can be used.

I am presently experimenting with inline resistors in the VIC.  While not desirable in the end result, it has amplified the resonant effect I have been getting.  At resonance, the transformer sounds  like it is producing static and you will see higher peaks in the voltage waveform associated with this "static".  I believe this is where the step up is occuring.
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 16:30:25 pm
Goon the double layer seem to still exist but to smaller extent the capacitance seems bigger or its resistance makes it a longer time to fully charging...

Ts i think it should work with water of any kind too.. i just guess is pretty much easier if we get the water most pure possible... meyer mentions in the patent 1ppm to 20ppm operation... but is not hard to have this thats what i'm saying... tap water here has 110ppm

the rain water range is from 2ppm to 4ppm depending on the rain... to get zero takes very small filtering effort... i think its worth for me.. by the way i use just cationic and anionic mixed resin... it works like the electrostatic filter meyer described... it capture the ions from the water reducing the ppm...




Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 16:42:49 pm
My own opinion is that I don't think this is what's going to do it.

My experiments have shown that currents of even 8 milliamps may be sufficient to produce electrolysis. So obviously we need to have current less than this. The coils will continue producing a current that is induced in them by creating the necessary voltage to do so because this is the nature of coils.  Therefore the goal should not be to create resistance in the water. The goal should be to produce high resistance in the rest of the VIC while tuning appropriate reactance on the coils and WFC at the desired frequency.  The resistance of the rest of the VIC circuit at resonance should be higher than the resistance of the quality of the water being used.

Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 17:05:43 pm
My own opinion is that I don't think this is what's going to do it.

My experiments have shown that currents of even 8 milliamps may be sufficient to produce electrolysis. So obviously we need to have current less than this. The coils will continue producing a current that is induced in them by creating the necessary voltage to do so because this is the nature of coils.  Therefore the goal should not be to create resistance in the water. The goal should be to produce high resistance in the rest of the VIC while tuning appropriate reactance on the coils and WFC at the desired frequency.  The resistance of the rest of the VIC circuit at resonance should be higher than the resistance of the quality of the water being used.

by resistance  i meant a complex capacitor (sandwich ) like proposed by tay he han cited by meyer as he has the patent for the generation of h2 from collision and HV.. what i mean is that as the double layer is high value capacitance... it acts like the barium titanate to restrict the current since the electric fields will distribute thru the dielectrics (capacitances) accordingly... but once you have a region of low electric field and high resistance, this allows to apply high electric fields with (current restricted condition) eccles also comment tay he han saying that tay he don't show any way of getting ride of the screening of the charge.. .

of course i'm assuming that the water in the double layer has the same breakdown voltage than the series capacitance..or higher... if not its all trash what i just wrote

according to eccles (fracture cell) stan system is complicated and expensive to restrict the current so they went to plastics as insulators for the goal..

well i just ran the tests with the re purified water... i got 6kohm per cell now! that means applying 60v i get 10ma  again 0ppm positive on the outer tube... i cant see any bubble with this config

i believe the vic work with the cell in a manner to modulate the electric fields present to completely eliminate the current flow... somehow..

its being some years and the sensation and my impression about it turned a lot but aways around the same points... some new come but only to realize old ideas..
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 14, 2015, 23:13:52 pm
In my analysis we should equilibrate the vc to allow the pulse to collapse correctly...the damn question is what is it? i think the vic could be split into only two coils ... to simplify.. .the diode goes to the outer tube and the choke on the inner tube.. possibly..

If the coils get charged to resonance up to 1 amp/...having my cells in series would easily give me over 20kv... question is how to get it in there?
Title: Re: Voltage intensifier circuit
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 15, 2015, 00:46:48 am
In my analysis we should equilibrate the vc to allow the pulse to collapse correctly...the damn question is what is it? i think the vic could be split into only two coils ... to simplify.. .the diode goes to the outer tube and the choke on the inner tube.. possibly..

If the coils get charged to resonance up to 1 amp/...having my cells in series would easily give me over 20kv... question is how to get it in there?

See the last three posts in my current topic.

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php?topic=2946.msg27422#msg27422