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Projects by members => Projects by members => Sebosfato => Topic started by: sebosfato on April 16, 2012, 17:37:04 pm

Title: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 16, 2012, 17:37:04 pm
Hello

I want to share with you, my new idea of magnetic accelerator, which can help understand the principle behind stan EPG

I believe that a transformer where its core is subdivided into sections of opposing magnets inside a circular copper tube, where the magnets are spaced between each other by their repulsion force and are free to move...  will be able to amplify the energy applied to it by selecting when to input energy and where and when to release energy.

With the magnets opposing each other they remain spaced apart. If you now put a coil between them and energize it, both magnets will be accelerated in the same direction, because one is being attracted to the center of the coil and the other is being repelled given the like polarities, while they also still repel each other...

According to the speed of the magnets the frequency needed to be applied is determined. So as they increase the speed the frequency is increased.. the drive coils arranged around the ring also with opposing polarities.

The output wave form will be like two positive pulses followed by two negative pulses for each cycle of the applied frequency...

The copper tube; Is there to perform like a shorted turn in a transformer, this lets you to design the primary of this special transformer, to determine the magneto motive force (amperes in the shorted turn) limited to the power dissipation of the tube... The secondary can be between the drive coil where it would tap only the induction derived by the magnet passing, or over the primary where its relation of impedance will need to balance with the current flowing into the tube...

The magnetic particles; This are small magnets arranged in a way that they can't spin inside the tube, only flow linearly. They oppose each other so there is a space relationship between them. 

Where the energy come from? If you start applying energy into a coil and the magnet is inside it, you have a permeability, as the magnet goes out you lowered the inductance, so higher current flow, now as the other magnet gets inside the coil the inductance is now increased again. Energy stored in a coil is = to  E=I^2*L/2 So if you input a big current at low voltage and than takes out the same current at a greater voltage you get more energy out than in...

The magnet aways want to go to the center of the coil when you energize it with dc, that happens because the center of the coil is where the magnetic field of the coil is divided. I started this experiment making a toroidal coil, and inserting a magnet inside it and applying dc, the result is the magnet wont go anywhere because in a toroidal coil anywhere is like the center of the solenoid in terms of where is north and south division.

Frequency: If a lower frequency than ideal is applied the magnets will only go back and forwards, at the right frequency they will get the max speed, and much above it they stop. Probably will depend on the load, so the goal is to determine the frequency range and look after it...

I'm using 1/8 inch copper tube...

The diameter of the ring, number of coils and number of magnets are correlated...

A full wave H bridge driver is needed i guess... 

Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 17, 2012, 02:39:17 am
I think is similar to what steorn thought it could be... the increase in energy should be proportional to the frequency and permeability increase..

Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 18, 2012, 03:54:27 am
Meyer talked about avoid lenz law would be the solution..

Tesla stated that aluminum was going to be the revolutionary material...

I was thinking about the difference of diamagnetism and paramagnetism...

copper is diamagnetic this mean that in the presence of a magnetic field it creates another magnetic field that opposes the original-

aluminum in turn is paramagnetic, which mean it compose the field creating a field in the same direction of the original field...

If we use an aluminum wire at the secondary would the induced emf be the same? or maybe ss wire? could this be the reason meyer used it?

I was thinking about and maybe the output could be the same frequency because as the fields of the magnets don't compose might become uniform so could be much like a sine function...
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 18, 2012, 17:07:18 pm
I forgot to say that the frequency flips the polarity of the coils at the exact moment when the magnet is at the middle of the coil, so the force keep aways in the same direction. As the magnet is closer to the center the force is maximum.

In a transformer you have a coil and another coil, the field generated in the first will couple to the other...

In this case, the field of the first induce a field in the second (short turn) which allows to input energy in the primary easily, this second field composes with the field of the magnet which in turn is moving therefore there is a time varying field related to it, so if a third coil was to be there it would couple not only the field of the primary but also the time varying field of the magnet moving, so the primary is not responsible for all the field that the output coil will receive.

The energy is coming from the space time i guess. straight from the magnetic potential field, doing work. 

Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 19, 2012, 15:34:23 pm
Yes guys, thats exactly what i'm saying...
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2012, 08:32:20 am
I forgot to say that the frequency flips the polarity of the coils at the exact moment when the magnet is at the middle of the coil, so the force keep aways in the same direction. As the magnet is closer to the center the force is maximum.

In a transformer you have a coil and another coil, the field generated in the first will couple to the other...

In this case, the field of the first induce a field in the second (short turn) which allows to input energy in the primary easily, this second field composes with the field of the magnet which in turn is moving therefore there is a time varying field related to it, so if a third coil was to be there it would couple not only the field of the primary but also the time varying field of the magnet moving, so the primary is not responsible for all the field that the output coil will receive.

The energy is coming from the space time i guess. straight from the magnetic potential field, doing work.


Dear Fabio,

To avoid Lenz law, there is also a technique that uses the coil shorting option.
On top of the raised sinewave, you short the coil.
Are you building a test setup for this?

Steve
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2012, 18:39:10 pm
Helo Steve, yes i'm building it, i'm very busy with the water project and still have my left hand broken, but a friend is going to help me complete this project too. i'm developing a variable voltage h bridge system that i'm going to use for this and other projects. its very complex indeed, i couldn't find anything like it on internet. i use three transformers, optocouplers and mosfet drivers.. the important is that the theory holds, because is clear to anyone that if operated in the way i described will at least make the magnets move in one direction only which seems to me related with the epg described by meyer.  more to come
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2012, 21:35:58 pm
 Steve, why you believe shorting the coil only there would avoid lenz law? i don't understand. the copper tube is already a shorted section. not sure what you mean.
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 20, 2012, 22:50:23 pm
Muller motor, romeroUK replications, Bedini SSG etc etc.
Oneof the lenz beating up option is coil shorting.
I know its a lot of reading, but give it a try, Sebos...

http://sites.google.com/site/alternativeworldenergy/shorting-coils-circuits


http://www.energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/8344-coil-shorting-techniques.html

http://www.overunity.com/3842/muller-dynamo/5490/

Konehead is the member on that forum who can explain it well.


http://www.overunity.com/9720/fuelless-car-prototype-by-ismael-motor/msg275031/



Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 21, 2012, 16:43:29 pm
I will take the time to check it out...

Take a look at this simpler design... probably could be done with a bicycle wheel...

I think the big deal here is that is possible to use the attraction which increase as it approach the center while still use the repel force, that diminish increasing the distance...

Normally motors use repulsion or attraction or both but aways in a separated manner.. for each field.
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 22, 2012, 19:31:24 pm
i think this is easier design...

Adding a secondary over all primary coils with fields adding, would make of it a rotary core transformer... what would be the output?
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 23, 2012, 07:32:43 am
Hello again,

I think i need  to remake the question.

When we input energy in the coils, the coils are creating a magnetic field that goes to the secondary set and also sets up the motion of the magnets, attracting one and repelling the other.
Does the approximation of the magnet induce in the coil a magnetic field in the opposite direction, canceling the initial field or would it compose with that field increasing its intensity?
Anyone know it?


Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 23, 2012, 19:15:27 pm
Thinking about the back electromotive force in a transformer, its a field that is generated when you extract energy from it with a second coil, and that field, cancel the other, so as the opposition to the variation of the field... and therefore reduce the effective inductance of the primary, by mutual induction coupling...

So a magnet approaching a shorted coil is repelled by it so there is what is called a BEMF


However in the situation here where the magnet is attracted to the center of the coil by the primary, while it is repelled by the secondary load... i think the key might be there... to cancel the BEMF from the secondary with the MMF of the magnet being attracted... because as the secondary is creating an opposing field, as long as the load BEMF is not heavier than the MMF attraction between primary and the magnet the magnet is allowed to move forwards...

I'm still not sure if attracting a magnet inside a coil consumes energy or not... I mean the same Steorn talked about... If you input energy into a coil you put it in form of amps, the lower the resistance and inductance, the lower is the energy you need to put amps into it (volts = joules/coulomb).. How many joules you need for each coulomb you pass thru it) But now, with the moving magnet as you input amps the inductance increases, so the energy accumulated into the coil should increases,,,

If that is so...

'Could it really be that simple?
'
If so a super conducting material and a way to pulse high amps low volts thru the coils would do the job?, to create energy... wouldn't

I'm not sure how the efficiency of a motor is determined... i think the losses in the wiring could be around 30% maybe not... in transformers can be less than 10%...

Stan said the problem with over unity is to avoid this BEMF...

Design the idea,.

You have a coil shorted.. and a magnet close to it... now you put a piece of iron at the other side of the coil so the magnet is attracted to the iron, pass inside the coil and generate a EMF on that coil which makes current flow... what happened there

If the experiment is repeated with coil not shorted, the time it take to the magnet get the other side is much smaller....

This tell me that the greater will be the load the lower will be the frequency...

So the magnetic potential in this configuration analogous to the gravitational potential energy is the same in both configurations but the it time takes to the first case is different... some how the energy conversion involve thereto a time relation...  The slower the magnet flow the greater the energy is being consumed...

Interesting...
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2012, 03:55:50 am
Sebs, I just read through everything and I can't say I understood everything (over my head) but it sounds like this is going to be a very complex build. Also, I think friction is going to come into play here. Maybe if the tube was filled with oil it would help. But I would imagine it would still have to be accounted for for the coil timing. What kind of magnets are you planning on using? I'll reread the parts I didn't understand when I have more time.
Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2012, 06:01:42 am
hello dave,
i agree with you... not simple...

Today i discovered a possible flaw in the theory... Because i think that while the magnet is attracted into the coil it would induce a contrary flux so basically there should be low or no EMF at the secondary... In theory.

In practice i don't know... Stan was not stupid so if his epg worked like this it might be a light in the end of the way.. otherwise it would mean that his epg worked with different principle..

I plan to use small cylindrical magnets or couples of sphere magnets

Title: Re: Magnetic particle accelerator
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2012, 17:55:15 pm
Today i understood something more about the impedance of generators..

a generator uses a magnet transversing a coil or vice versa... this generate an EMF at the coil ends.. this EMF is AC thereto the current coming out of it depends on its impedance or inductance...

I had a trouble developing a eolic generator that only used neo magnets and coreless coils... because the impedance of the coils increase with the length of the wire so as the EMF and similarly with the frequency does not matter the diameter of the wire...

I though of something...

If we have a capacitor in series with this (fixed speed) generator coil there will be a frequency where the Z will be zero so all the EMF generated goes to the resistor... but current will be 90° de-phased from the EMF... and thereto there will be energy accumulated in the system, and the voltages across the components will be greater than the EMF, Q times...

could this de-phase of current EMF help avoid the BEMF or the component would be even greater since the impedance don't exists anymore and the load is receiving ohms law current related to the EMF generated?