Electrolysis > Tube Cells

Most efficient tubelar cell from Wouter Oosthuizen waterfuelforall

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Steve:
4. What models are available and what is their pricing?

We manufacture two models:

WaterfuelForall Standard max 25A, 20A continuous, 1.5-2.0 lpm @ 20A - USD 195 WaterfuelForall Deluxe max 30A, 25A continuous, 1.9-2.5 lpm @ 25A - USD 295 WaterfuelForall Super Deluxe max 35A, 25A continuous, 1.9-2.5 lpm @ 25A - USD 395

This price includes the electrolyzer with a 1 liter HDPE water trap/bubbler and the necessary hoses.

A "heavy duty" bubbler is available at an additional cost of USD30. All units are fully assembled and individually bench tested for a period of at least 2 hours. AWG 8 cables with soldered connectors, a 30A relay, amp meter and in-line fuse is available at an additional USD 50.

5. Which shipping options are available?

Two shipping options are available:

Americas Asia, Canada, China, Australia Europe Delivery Time
Air mail USD 100 80 70 +- 7-10 days

Surface mail USD 35 25 25 +- 35 days

6. How do you manage such competitive prices?

We had several e-mails from individuals telling us that they cannot beat our price if they want to build it them self, and the reason is simple: we buy our materials in bulk and have designed a manufacturing process that is very cost efficient. Our goal is to provide the public with a reliable booster but at an affordable price so that it make more sense for someone to rather buy a professionally built unit from us, instead of trying to build a unit them self, with all the related problems.

7. Which unit do you recommended for my car?

If your car's engine size is larger than 2500cc, we recommend the Deluxe model otherwise the Standard model should be fine.

8. How difficult is it to install?

Detailed installation instructions goes with every unit sold, but the procedure is pretty straight forward and should not take longer than 1.5 hour to install, if so much.

9. Where must the booster be placed?

Anywhere in the engine compartment but preferably in a place where it will have a constant airflow (just like the radiator) so that it can benefit from the cooling effect of airflow.

10. How is the hydroxy injected into the engine?

The hose coming from the water trap is connected to the air intake before the air breather, so that the gases introduced into the intake are first filtered by the air filter. We

are not interested in a vacuum because the manifold has greatest vacuum at the wrong time and no vacuum at the worse time. Also, we want the hydroxy gas filtered of any mist, which may carry traces of electrolyte. As an additional benefit, the air filter serves as a first line of defense protecting against a back flash coming from the engine.

11. Where do you buy your tubes?

We are situated in South Africa, and are buying our tubes locally. All tubes are grade 316 ISO certified.

12. Do I need an EFIE?

If the vehicle has fuel injection, it is likely that you will have to use an EFIE together with

your booster, before you will notice optimal mileage improvement.

Examples of EFIE circuits available on the internet is:

http://www.fuelsaver-mpg.com/

http://www.madcosm.com/

In cooperation with Panacea, a reputable alternative energy research organization in

Australia

we will within the next few weeks be conducting in depth tests in this regard, using the

WaterfuelForAll booster. Panacea will be testing various models of EFIE's as well to assist

us in finding the best solution.

13a. What is the maximum amount of amps that my engine can handle for optimum mileage?

Every engine has a sweet spot where the net energy gain because of the addition of hydroxy is the biggest. If your booster is pulling too much amps, your engine may need more petrol just to supplement the drag from the alternator (just like an air conditioner causes higher fuel consumption). To answer this question, the following procedure is suggested:

Remove the hydroxy gas outlet from the intake and start your engine without the booster. Listen to the engine or watch the rpm's. Next turn on the booster, but do NOT feed the hydroxy gas into the intake. If you notice a change in engine pitch, then that is a sign that you are pulling too much amps. Next, turn off the booster, put the gas hose back into the air intake and turn on the booster again.

Listen to the engine pitch. If the rpm went down, then your booster is not offsetting the amps you are pulling, in other words, it is pulling too much amps and no/little mileage improvement is to be expected.

13B. How much Hydroxy is needed for optimum mileage improvement?

I do not have the answer yet, but Panacea, a reputable alternative energy research organization in Australia will within the next few weeks be conducting in depth tests in this regard, using the WaterfuelForAll booster. Hopefully these tests with advanced computer equipment will be able to answer all our questions in this regard.

14. How do I refill with water and how much?

The booster has a removable cap for easy refill. Just add the water until it wants to overflow the edges of the inner tubes. If you by accident fill up a little bit too much, then its not such a big problem.

Yes, there will be much more current leakage initially, but this will only last until that first bit of excess water has been used up, which should be rather quickly. If the water/electrolyte overflows, it will simply be caught by the bubbler/water trap.

15. What electrolyte should I use?

We recommend lye (also known as caustic soda, chemical symbol NaOH).You can also use KOH but it is usually more expensive than lye and not so easily obtainable. Do NOT use baking soda since it might damage the electrodes (tubes) which may lead to reduced gas production.

16. What kind of water should I use?

Distilled is recommended because tap water may cause sludge to build up and short the electrodes.

Should you decide to use tap water, you do so at your own risk and in such case we advise that you should regularly open up and clean out the electrolyzer, at least once every 3 months. If your water contains too much impurity, it may contaminate the electrodes which may lead to reduced gas production.

17A. How do I control the current draw (amps)?

Amps are controlled by how strong the electrolyte solution is, and to stabilize at between 15-18A you need to add +-30ml (6-8 teaspoons) of lye to 1 liter of water initially.

If you are driving less than 2 hours at a time, then you do not have to be too much concerned about the amps, and then you may add up to 50% more lye, and the current draw should not go above 30A within 2 hours. Thus, for usage less than 2 hours, you can start with 9-12 teaspoons of lye to 1 liter of water. Note that once you have reached the minimum required lye concentration (+-6 teaspoons), the current draw increases very fast with every additional teaspoon of lye added. So rather start with too

little lye, than too much. You can always add another teaspoon of lye if you see that your booster does not get close to 25A within 2-3 hours, but if you have added too much lye initially, you may end up with the current draw increasing too quickly and after an hour you may be forced to switch off your booster.

17B. How do I prevent freezing in sub zero temperatures?

Electrolyte concentration needs to be high to prevent freezing. Alternatively you can put a heating/cooling coil around the unit (engine coolant driven)or wrap the booster with fiberglass foil backed insulation. NaOH (like KOH) at "moderate" (20%) concentration makes a reasonable anti-freeze. It will freeze at about -10 F. KOH at 28% will not freeze even in Norway. The bubblers can contain some antifreeze.

18. How do I / Should I condition my booster before using it?

Some successful commercial boosters do not recommend any specific conditioning procedure. On the other hand, Bob Boyce strictly prescribes the following procedure for electrode cleansing and conditioning:

Plate Cleansing -"During this stage, we are operating in submerged plate condition, where the liquid level is maintained just over the plates. Run this cell stack at full power for several hours at a time, which can be 4 amps or more. As the cell stack runs, the boiling action will loosen particulate from the pores and surfaces of the metal. Be sure to do this in a well vented area. Shut down and pour this solution into a container. Rinse the cells well with distilled water. Filter the dilute solution through paper towels or coffee filters to remove particulate. Pour the dilute solution back in and repeat this cleansing process. You may have to rinse and repeat many times until the cells stop putting out particulate matter into the solution. Optionally, you can use new solution each time you cleanse, but be forwarned, you can go through a lot of solution just in this cleansing stage. When cleansing is finished (typically 3 days of cleansing), do a final rinse with clean distilled water."(Not that Bob's system use a 101 plate cell, thus full power is only 4 amps. For the WaterfuelForAll booster, full power would imply 20-25A)

Plate Conditioning - "Using the same concentration of solution as in cleansing, now fill the cell stack with dilute solution. Monitor current draw. If current draw is fairly stable, continue with this conditioning phase straight for 2 to 3 days, adding distilled water to just replace what is consumed. If the solution turns color or skims over with crud, the cell stack needs more cleansing stages. After 2 to 3 days of run time, pour out the diluted solution and rinse well with distilled water."

My recommendation would be to try and stick as close as possible to the procedure prescribed by Bob, for best results. Best would be to connect your booster to a

regulated power supply during the break in period. (I'm using a PSU rated max 32A) But at the same time I have to confess that I have experienced little difference between different conditioning methods tested by myself. While we are not trying to achieve resonance (we are merely performing brute force electrolysis), and while we are using a good quality grade 316 stainless steel, I suspect that the exact method used for conditioning does not matter so much, as long as the plates are never touched by bare hands or any other chemicals than NaOH or KOH.I think the most important point is to stick to using distilled water and just know that your booster will not start out at maximum gas production, but gas production will gradually increase during the first +-30 hours of operation.

During assembly we only handle the tubes with rubber gloves, so you do not have to be worried about contamination for a start. For simple brute force electrolysis for purposes of boosting I will simplify Bob's procedure to: Connect your booster to a PSU and run at +-20 amps for +-24 hours before fitting to your vehicle. Interrupt the procedure every time when the cell gets to +- half full of water and replace with new water & electrolyte. If you do not have a PSU, just borrow your friends'! (I'm sure one of your friends will have one!)

tektrical:
That's interesting how a multi tube cell has different current, based on the tube diameters.

I just finished a new plate cell using two ss electrical handy box covers.  The plates are slightly curved, so when they're facing each other I suppose the current will vary at different points.  I'm quickly making a second cell, for comparison, with the plates stacked, with uniform spacing.  With this arrangement the plates could be spaced much closer.

Not sure what the alloy number is.  And cleaning them with lighter fluid reveals there is some oil on their surfaces.

Steve:
Hi Tek,

Watch this video...
I want to know your thoughts on this.

Steve:
I am building me a new tubular 6 cells wfc.
Then i want to add two bublers. One with water and the second with acetone.
Feed that gas into my small generator and see if i can make it selfsustaning.

Its actually something i wanted to do in 2010 with tirpetine, but i failed....

Seeing this video, i had to use acetone in those days...

Cheers

Steve:
Not to forget: i will use browns gas.
Meaning, that i will not use strait dc but a 100hz pulsed powersupply.

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