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Projects by members => Projects by members => Radiant_1 => Topic started by: Radiant_1 on May 24, 2009, 00:19:58 am

Title: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 00:19:58 am
I believe that the "Atomic Hydrogen" reaction is one of great importance. It is most likely the key behind Meyer's Water Fuel Cell.
Basically if  we impart enough energy into molecular H2 (The kind we get out of Electrolysis Cells) it will separate into "atomic" or single atoms of Hydrogen..H1

Anytime an Atom changes phases there is a release of energy. In refrigeration the expanding or evaporation of liquid coolant to gaseous coolant creates an intense cooling. In the case of Atomic Hydrogen the arc's plasma core supplies heat energy which expands H2 to single atoms of Hydrogen...they are HUGE compared to molecular hydrogen (Much like liquid to gas ratios are huge)...when the single atoms of Hydrogen...hit something, subjected to certain catalysts, or other means are used to "bump down" the energy absorbed from the arc...A phase change will occur from H1 down to H2 (H2 is much physically smaller then H1)...the shrinking releases a LARGE amount of energy.

I believe this is what Meyer was working with...and in fact is the phenomena he called "Atomic Decay of Hydrogen"

Here is a theoretical use for this process...and a view of the life cycle
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled-6-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 00:25:32 am
Here's a couple patents that all use "Atomic Hydrogen" to release HUGE energy gains!!
In fact...the last one shows us that the process can be done to MOST NOBLE GASSES too! Hydrogen releases the most energy though...Helium is the second most energetic.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 00:35:48 am
Here's a good one to try and wrap ur mind around
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 11:37:26 am
Thanks radiant.,

Nice docs and theory's!

Steve

Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 13:53:44 pm
http://jlnlabs.online.fr/mahg/index.htm
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 24, 2009, 16:18:45 pm
This comes back to what Stephen Meyers was saying .

'' You dont have to produce alot of gas '' Then he talked about how you can ''destabilise'' helium and release energy 10,000 to 1 .

So Radiant, how was Stan doing it with the injector  ???



Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 26, 2009, 08:23:42 am
For those who would like to try it out...
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled-2.jpg)
The electrolysis cell here could also be a tank of Hydrogen...or a pressure vessel to react lye and aluminum to make H2
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 30, 2009, 19:44:24 pm
@Dankie
It's actually a bit complicated...I will attempt to explain it.
Stan made ionized air in his gas proc. that we all know...well, reading his patents I found that the ionized air IS HIS EEC (in the water plug patent)...see ionized air is mostly ozone. Ozone destroys germs and stuff by stripping electrons. By using the ionized gas mixed with water vapor and "non-combustible" gasses what happened when the molecule was elongated is that the water molecule's split because the ozone stole electrons from the stretched water molecule.
My theory is that the gasses allowed the oxygen to bind away to form other molecules (Nitrogen oxide, O2, etc) , yet allowed the hydrogen to remain unattached and that is what he was saying by stating "Cannot form back to water"....and the I believe the "Atomic Hydrogen" process is what Stan was talking about when he said "Atomic Decay of Hydrogen"....IT ALL MAKES SENSE NOW!!!
It's the Atomic Hydrogen process....it creates a VERY HOT FLAME/HEAT WAVE....or as Meyer called it "Thermal Explosive Energy"...
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/Untitled01.jpg)

I cannot stress enough how important this phenomena is....It's what makes the energy output OU!!
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2009, 10:54:03 am
Can O3  be created by voltage without arc over and without UV rad.?
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2009, 11:14:04 am
Yes Alan
There is three ways to make ozone

1.Hot Ozone...where two HV areas are near and the arc creates O3
2.Ultra Violet bombardment (takes a long time)
3.Cold Plasma Ozone...where coronal discharge from two insulated electrodes creates ozone


My friend has an original cold plasma ozone generator....it is just a HV neon sign xformer connected to four  one terminal bulbs filled with gasses. Two bulbs on one lead...two on the other, they are spaced apart about 1/4"....there are little purple coronal arcs that appear between the bulbs. That is the most efficient HV O3 generator because there is no short.

I drew this for u
(http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w152/Jdub6d9/coldplasmaO3.jpg)
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2009, 13:54:13 pm
Thanks, this could be very possible.

h20power also mentioned corona discharge and why and the ionization energylevels of oxygen, somewhere in this topic:
http://energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3217-stanley-meyer-explained.html


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corona_discharge
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2009, 14:41:44 pm
i made a ozone gen out of a neon transformer like 1 year ago it worked good.. i dont know how good but you sure could smell the ozone in the air...  all i used to make it wat a 7000 volt neon, a glass jar, and some aluminum windo screen.. i took the screen and cut 2 separate pieces and shaped them into cylinders. one was on the jars inner wall while the other was on the outter wall.. the war insulated them from earth other, the i took 2 aligator clips and hooked then to the neons high voltage lines to i could clip them onto the screens.. when the lights were off you could see a blue glow.. the glass seemed to let some through the glass.. if i were to use it long periods i think the glass would need to be replaced..
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2009, 17:20:48 pm
Thanks, this could be very possible.

h20power also mentioned corona discharge and why and the ionization energylevels of oxygen, somewhere in this topic:
http://energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/3217-stanley-meyer-explained.html


Hi Alan,

Just curious, have you seen anything, like a picture of video of H2Opower? He was a member here, but when i asked him to show some prove of his work, he never showed anything. I just want to say, becarefull believing people who do not show any prove, results, or such things.

Steve
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 31, 2009, 21:15:35 pm
Hey Steve, I dont think he has done anything yet - hes mainly theorizing, like many of us are doing. ;
(edit: I stand corrected: /www.energeticforum.com/54948-post441.html  )
His basic stance is correct: how did Stan manage to run his buggy with only 7 lpm? By "freely" + ionizing air so more energy is released when the mix is  ignited. 'Free' as in "particle generation as an energy generator".

a bit offtopic:
I find this techbrief quote affecting Stan's credibility:
Quote
The Radiant-Intensity (Rei) of the-
coherent wave-energy (919) being  released from the quartz tube (918)  [?] is, further, enhanced when
emitted energy-wavelets (Ers) given off by the activated hydrogen atom are allowed to oscillates
(back and forth movement) at an ever increasing "difference of potential" between the end plates
(915/916).
lightwave energy amplified by oscillating it with electric fields?

Many didnt understand coil 10-4, I think I discovered that it is 6-1, but:
without primary;
6-1's secondary copper wraps on outer bobbin are now copper bifilar wraps, each wrap wound as 10-3B;
the last wrap at the end is connected to the first SS bifilar wrap, parallel to first copper wrap, SS also wrapped as 10-3B.

I think 10-3b is correct and does indeed create [non oscillating?] opposite spikes on the rising and falling edge of the pulsetrain.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 01, 2009, 00:43:00 am
Please see "Stanley Meyer Explained" thead at www.energeticforum.com for an example of H2OPower's application of theory to practice.  He has photos posted of his hydrogen gas gun.  Very impressive to me.  I hope it works.

I was at the alternative energy expo 2009 in Waldorf MD this weekend.  The most impressive demonstration to me of all was the Tesla Hairpin Circuit.  Karl was very helpful in explaining what was going on.  There are videos of his on youtube (search tesla hairpin circuit) and a thread on energeticforum.com.  The sparks were amazing and thought provoking.  There were other demonstrations and presentations as well covering everything from solar and wind power to zpe.  Keep an eye out for videos of the event.  It was all recorded.

Regards,
Andy

Btw this is an interesting topic.  It's interesting that the atomic hydrogen behaves similarly to hho with regards to melting temperature of the metal to which the flame is applied.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 01, 2009, 11:00:20 am
@Alan
Quote
lightwave energy amplified by oscillating it with electric fields?
I think first you need to familiarize yourself with analog gaseous lasers....Then I think you should read it again very carefully! And remember that "coherent wave energy" could be any spectrum. And, if you read the Blacklight Power patent I have attached to this response...you will see that they have fully defined it and now use a "Novel Atomic Model" to explain it and the anomalous emissions of "soft x-rays" from deep space (not empty...instead filled with hydrogen) as well as the sun (composed of hydrogen)...
Also when you "carefully read it" you will notice Stanley says
Quote
given off by the activated hydrogen atom
...aka "Atomic Hydrogen"...aka ionized single atoms of Hydrogen
I suspect the "waveguide" is calibrated to the wavelength of the hydrogen creating a resonant oscillation between the electrodes....because the atoms will gain charge, travel across, release charge,  and, gain the opposite charge. Happens over and over, the atoms traverse back and forth between electrodes...and I suspect if you calibrate the distance to some harmonic of the frequency of the atoms oscillation you will get results that blow ur mind ;)
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 01, 2009, 13:29:59 pm
My preliminary thoughts are that the hydrogen resonator "easer" is functioning as a hydrogen laser.
you are right, I am not famiiar with lasers. Gonna read about it.

for starters:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_construction
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Population_inversion (posted his before, in a diffeent context)

cool
http://astro.unl.edu/naap/hydrogen/animations/hydrogen_atom.html
from energeticforum

awesome stuff in the blacklight patent  - fractional quantum energies, below ground state - because it is below ground state, is this aka ZPE?

I read some of it, I don't understand, how does stealing the electron by the "energy hole" bring hydrogen to a fractional quantum state, below ground state? Shouldnt the energystate be higher.
Perhaps my misunderstanding.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 01, 2009, 20:38:13 pm
http://stedjee1.infinology.net/Velocity_Orbit_Electron/Velocity%20of%20Orbiting%20Electron.htm

this site has some math on it for ionizations state oh hydrogen... alot of equations..  should be useful to someonegood with math..
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 18, 2009, 10:25:09 am
Here is "Atomic Hydrogen" in action...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUHeBPBzca0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUHeBPBzca0)

Notice the color of the plasma...then notice it happens on only one electrode...

Then look at this..
(http://www.chem.uiuc.edu/Chem103/spectroscopy/images/tube1.jpg)

That's all I'm gonna say right now...
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2009, 03:03:26 am
We need to focus on the physics...the physical is after all, the only real truth.
We need to then keep in mind the key truths of the physical (eventually you need to learn all physical truths). Those being...

1. Anything can be scaled up or down to infinity (infinity goes microscopic and macroscopically)
2. There are 4 states of matter; Solid, Liquid, Gas, and Plasma
3. All Mater IS made from "atoms"...the atom is composed of spinning orbital "electrons" that surround a dense "proton/neutron" core. These elements possess electro-magnetic atributes that get stronger the closer you get.
4. "Opposite Charges" attract each other...."Like Charges" repel each other.


Using these "truths of physics" (I avoid using the word law...because they are "truths" as best we can tell, not laws) you can begin to see what Meyer was actually doing. He was using voltage potentials (and light) to energize the atoms. He then used the accumulated energy to separate the molecules using the larger "electron" orbit (Both water molecule...and then H2 molecule)
He did this by using the potential energy across the molecule (which translates to a larger charge differential across the molecule) to a "floating" electrode...by pulsing the EEC there is a chain reaction between all atoms that the electricity deems "path of least resistance"...this chain reaction is the flow of electrons. One must understand that "electrons" are present everywhere...in fact static electricity is the transfer of electrons from one source to another. For example...rubbing PVC with rabbit fur actually transfers electrons from the fur to the PVC...rubbing PVC with cellophane takes electrons from the PVC. The WFC does that in reverse...Using an already high voltage static field (Static as is in "Standing Wave" to polarize the water molecule....a separate drain circuit is provided to pipe away one side of the charge. Creating an ionized Atom(s), and a neutral atom(s)

My study into "Atomic Hydrogen" has brought it together. Meyer was making it...for a fact. In fact in his whole "Earth Spaceship/Biosphere" paper he wrote how we could do the same thing to air to pull out solids (carbon, sulfur, etc) and clean our environment. It's how "Voltage does work"...Hydrogen is special because of it's immense size, yet minuscule mass...when it separates into singular atoms the size of the "electron" orbit enlarges, this is possible in common practice by pushing Hydrogen (H2) into a AC arc...in the arc the Molecule absorbs heat energy that energizes the orbits of the electrons to increase in size, then break apart. The blast of hydrogen is so fast that the atoms take with them an extra electron (Arc is an electron sea)...this extra electron allows the Hydrogen to have a relatively "stable" orbit. In common practice the "Atomic Hydrogen" hits a solid metal object and in the inelastic collision, loses the extra electron. Without the extra electron the atom must now collapse back down...it then links with another collapsing hydrogen atom and creates molecular hydrogen.

When a gas expands it cools the local area (refrigeration)...when it shrinks it heats the local area...(Atomic Hydrogen Welding)

Here is a crude atomic hydrogen water reactor...
feature=related

Meyer ultimately created a hydrogen plasma torch that heated all the "incombustible gasses" to expand and push the piston down.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2009, 07:35:01 am
im on the same page and what it all falls down to is just using the voltage and potential fields of the plates to drum in amplitude on the water.. looking at it from the physic side you will see how the opposing polarity have opposing effects in force of direction on the protons and electrons of water... deflection and attaction happening in 4 different ways during one pulse... for instance the protons are being affected in 2 ways... 1  the protons being deflected by the positive plate and the proton is being pulled by the negative plate... while at the same TIME the electrons actions are vice versa in force of direction.. meaning the electron moves toward the positive and away from negative plate. this leaves 2 variables.. timing and change in amplitude.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2009, 09:20:43 am
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2009, 14:47:23 pm

Here is a crude atomic hydrogen water reactor...
feature=related

cool experiment, you should make an amplifier connected to your soundcard output, with or without modulation, in combination with sine mixing software.

How are you so sure is atomic hydrogen in this video?

Quote
Meyer ultimately created a hydrogen plasma torch that heated all the "incombustible gasses" to expand and push the piston down.
His gas gun is also atomic hydrogen, since it has an air processor on top of it.
The flame is invisible and not eplosive, but don't know if the temperature is above normal hydrogen combustion, guess so, that's the function of he air processor..

(http://www.chem.uiuc.edu/Chem103/spectroscopy/images/tube1.jpg)
These pdf's are important, great find.
What kind of laser or plasma is shown it in the picture?
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2009, 17:16:33 pm
Radiant_1 that was a very enlightening post(s)

I am curious to your perspective on the electrical pulse generator, i know it seems unrelated, but we don't have much in the way of a physics lecture from stan, other than the videos, but each of his inventions and writings are a clue into his thought process as he tries to use what he knows about physics and electrical to apply the physics to accomplish the task. There are dozens of bold clues in that patent for those that know what they are reading.

Cheers


Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 20, 2009, 22:10:02 pm
Quote
electrical pulse generator
  do you mean electron particle generator? if so it is mentioned in some videos with much clarity.. ... it is like a big transformer.. except the core is tube  glass  closed looped... he puts the magnetic gas in the tube..puts a mirror finish on the outside making the inside a mirror.. and he hits it with coherent light... i say he uses the vic with a hydrogen laser to power it because it is the most effecient way to produce the coherent light in frequency and altering high amplitudes... the numero uno key to using light to energize  the magnetic gas is that it ups electron volts without current... you got to think of how light is able to pass threw empty space without influence a wave of current.. it just slips by upping the magnetic gas with its aborbtion and reflective properties... no current generated in the core means no amps consumed. but yet, you are able to resonate the magnetic gas into higher potential differences.. stan says that it could be built no bigger then the size of a hot water heater..
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 03:12:28 am
@Alan
Quote
How are you so sure is atomic hydrogen in this video?

Atomic Hydrogen is the plasma state of Hydrogen...I know it's Atomic Hydrogen because of the emission spectrum and the anomalous heat. Every gas emits a different color...Hydrogen is this
(http://www.chem.uiuc.edu/Chem103/spectroscopy/images/tube1.jpg)
[
Notice that low energy Hydrogen ions are blue..


Now here's oxygen
(http://www.windows.ucar.edu/earth/Magnetosphere/aurora/images/atom_oxygen_emit_spect_aurora_2.jpg)

I also know it's Atomic Hydrogen because it's all laid out in Blacklight Power's patent (attached)
See also the second attachement...it's good too...makes the connection of why Stan used "laser" energy in the gas proc.


Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 03:30:21 am
no outlaw, i mean electrical pulse generator, the very fact you assumed i might mean electrical particle generator enforces my perspective that it is a much overlooked invention.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 03:48:00 am
very much indeed..  it would be the steps approached for household electric from stans perspective.. the patent explains the concept.. but stan in some videos goes into detail what is happening inside the device and why is so special.. i wish i could remember which video he spoke about it on.. im leaning towards the switzerland vid for some reason... but first is the vic because you need the vic to make the magnetic gas that is inside the tube... then the vic can be used to produce laser energy very effeciently and power the particle gen..
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 06:30:40 am
@Outlaw
He is not talking about the particle accelerator generator...he is talking about the attached patent...I haven't overlooked it ;)
It is a very efficient analog pulsing generator...much the same as an alternator (in that it's all electromagnetic action...no perm magnets)..and the physical action of the device is superior to most digital components. It's really nothing more then a variable speed magneto...it's just tapped in many spots so you can do what u need with the waveform. Changing the rotational speed changes output frequency...physical dimensions determines duty cycle (50/50)

The key features are this
"an improvement of the state of the art in power isolation and power transfer and particularly the conventional alternator...has no contacts and no opposing magnetic fields...the voltage output is variably dependent on several controllable features."
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 11:32:47 am
See also the second attachement...it's good too...makes the connection of why Stan used "laser" energy in the gas proc.
May you  need a laser, disassemble an old optical disc drive.
search Youtube on laser hack, it shows the laser energy being amplified so it burns, quite cool.

But, instead of atomic hydrogen, couldn't it be electric sparks or electron discharges instead on the electrode?
I guess it would have arced through the water to the other electrode then ?

Once again, great find, it only confirms Meyer's technology more and more.
Remember the Danny Klein video from fox, in which temperatures of the sun where reached instantaneously when recombined on the surface of the material?
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 18:48:37 pm
now when you speak of using laser energy in a fuel cell, are you speaking of the introduction of light energy such as designed with the hydrogen fracturing gun, or do you speak of another type? ...   the way im  seeing it is spectrum is not whats of concern but more or less frequency and amplitude being sent into the process.. and i understand how it is being done on the off time of the pulse to keep waters electrons in the further out orbits and not allowing them to collapse during pulse  off time...  from the way i see it stan would power this device threw the eec and use it to consume the liberated electrons and turn them into photon energy instead of letting them populate in the choke. this is where he is producing electric power through the process.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 19:14:52 pm
Yes outlaw that is correct...however, there is a point where Stan says "Energizes the Hydrogen and weakens the Oxygen"....Every atom will absorb frequencies from it's own emission spectrum the best...also, you must read Tesla's patent on the Utilization of Radiant energy (attached). There you will find that DC light photons have a charge...and, that it will raise a capacitors charge if shined on the + terminal through a dielectric.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 21, 2009, 23:06:39 pm
thanks for the patent..

this is kinda off topic... but im tryiing to relate 2 views of physics as one (fractal dualitys?)check out this video... it is a very good 2012 video with the explanation of whats going to occur... i think we may be able to closely relate it to what we are learning... about cycles... but to really step outside the box  try to relate it to atoms.. and what happens to them when they are pulsed... earth has one strong pulse every 26,000 years... it has 13 phases.. we know them as ages as well as the zodiac signs. people think there are only 12 zodiacs but that is false there is one called ophiuchus...it is the only one related to a man and he is considered the serpent holder.. he is between sagitarius and sqorpio.   these ages we go through are around 2000 years a piece.. resulting in figure of 26,000 years since 13 x 2000= 26,000... well imagine this.. our moon circles our earth.. our moon and earth circle our sun,, our sun moon and earth circle in our milky way.. and our milky way most likely circles around somthing up to our universe proble circles around somthing... 2012 is when we are passing through the galactic center of the  milky way at the exact time as the sun and are on the same plane.. the eliptic plain aka galactic center is like the 0 volt line in our milky way... picture a clock having the plain crossing at 9 and 3 o clock.(horizontal)   we know the bottom half of that clock in electronic cycle definition would be in negative polarity. the top half would be positive..  imagine our sun and planetary system our located at the tip of the second hand.  and traveling clock wise.... at 2012 it marks the 26,000 year (1 cycle) point.. well this point is at 9 oclock on the scope.. so you see it is a time for a new cycle and new begining and it can as well be called the end.... we are ones lucky enough be apart of what we have to come... which should be the golden ages. 


http://100musicalfootsteps.wordpress.com/2009/05/14/2012-fact-or-fraud/
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2009, 15:10:31 pm
ever seen this pic?

unreadable label
"DA ----- [?]
with [?]
Votage Intensifier Circuit"
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2009, 19:41:24 pm
That appears to be the Gas Processor to me....the label reads...

 Danger
   High
 Voltage
Intensifier
  Circuit

Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2009, 21:41:08 pm
yea i think its a weird wfc design because it is bolted to the hydrogen fracturing gun in one pic i have seen.. you would think the hydrogen gas gun would be the gas processing part???
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2009, 22:04:03 pm
hi that was quick
   well I am progressing slowly with the "Oz Injector" or better name   'energy conversion unit'  this will if successes full will see if some of Langmuir work will actually do some thing.
  well if the 'discovery' can go into orbit on water why do they disbelieve what I and others are trying to do.  after all the 'Oz Injector'  could have a pressure of up to 3tons a square inch.  and after all that is all it really will be.
time will tell.
aussepom
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 25, 2009, 22:22:12 pm
meyer fantasy?

What do you all think of the components lying around the cavity?
magnet? ultrasonic resonator?
This text was added by thebuzz, he thought it was used for cavitation, but since this is the air processor, and cavitation happens in water, its function isn't intended for cavitation.
Maybe Dynodon can locate this thing.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 21, 2013, 19:23:11 pm
Be careful, this process creates a plethora of "soft x-rays", inside of a grounded engine would produce no ill-effects as the engine shields...however, messing with it unshielded is dangerous.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on March 21, 2013, 20:54:10 pm
hmmm lasers? so you wanna crack H2 ? where are you going to get H2 from? why not crack N2?
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 08, 2013, 16:43:59 pm
Be careful, this process creates a plethora of "soft x-rays", inside of a grounded engine would produce no ill-effects as the engine shields...however, messing with it unshielded is dangerous.

Can you explain, please?

I want to know more on this... :)

Steve
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 08, 2013, 21:04:05 pm
Well, when working with voltages at <100 it isn't really an issue. However, as the voltage potential increases as does the ionizing power of the subsequent rf produced in the discharge.
There was another man besides Meyer who developed a water plug for use in ICEs, his name escapes me at the moment...however, he was a lead engineer of skunkworks, and so the government said "Due to the "soft x-ray" radiation released during (what he labeled) "radiolysis", they would not allow production for civilians, but, due to "his" extensive background, they would allow him to continue to drive his car". The whole time knowing that, the electro-negative engine block would ground out all radiation.

We all want to directly observe our experiments, however, a lot, if not all discharges should be shielded...do an experiment, run a simple discharge through air next to a speaker with a bias power of a couple volts (just enough to make the electromagnet energize and float the cone)...it will pick up that spark gap as noise (it's all radiation). Physically we are essentially micro and macrocosms of RLC circuits, we pick up all that radiation just like the coil...the problem arises when you start subjecting yourself to discharges of higher than 100volts, around 5kv and there is serious risk of cellular degradation. The danger is inversely related to distance and directly related eV...the problem isn't that we take on too much charge or anything...it's due to the fact that light is a particle-wave, and its particle characteristic is like a cannonball to our DNA.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 09, 2013, 05:23:33 am
Herman Anderson was his name.
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 09, 2013, 09:02:35 am
so my question is:
What kind of hydrogen does an electrolyser produce?

H1 and HO or H2?

The other question is if there is a difference between nascent and atomic hydrogen.

Last question for you radiant is if you have tried to create H1 like Andersen did?

Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 09, 2013, 10:37:28 am
H1 would exist for a fraction of time whatever you do you must do it inside the engine or very close to it..actually there is something that most people dont know that is HOH or HHO disintegrates radioactive materials.. what if you make D2O or H2O "radioactive" for a moment and mix it with HHO?
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 09, 2013, 18:44:46 pm
Two electrodes are wired to the electrical source and immersed in a container of water. When electricity is applied, the water molecules begin to split, forming unstable ions of hydrogen (H+) and hydroxide (OH-).

The hydrogen ions, which are missing an electron, are positively charged. They migrate toward the negative electrode where free electrons are flowing into the water. Here the hydrogen ions gain an electron to form stable hydrogen atoms. Individual hydrogen atoms combine to form hydrogen molecules (H2), which bubble to the surface. This reaction can be expressed as: 2 H+ + 2 e- → H 2.


These are the basics....


So what can we do the get H1 and not H2?

Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 09, 2013, 18:57:34 pm
Could it be possible to push to H1 away from the negative electrode, so that we prevent molecule forming H2?
Like brownsgas, pulsing the dc source? Aka, switching of power, so more H1 remain in the gas?

Other option, is the ionize ambient air into Nitrogen and push that thru the waterbath with all H1 atoms? Instead of reacting with electrons from the negative electrode, H1 will react with N into ammonia....orso...

What are your thoughts, dear members of this great forum?

Steve
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 10, 2013, 02:40:26 am
Its aways a good idea to try figure the reaction... but is too impossible without being a very expert in chemistry or physics...

Since this is a consuming task, i avoid it as it consumes my time... and hardly any conclusion would be decisive...

Tutanka use to talk about this mix of nitrogen and hydrogen but i don't know if this is really a good idea...

I think that the only way to keep the hydrogen from forming diatomic molecules is to maintain it ionized.. but this is a very big problem since the greater is the collection of atoms so will be the collection of charges... if they are in a can for example than the potential would grow ... 




Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 10, 2013, 08:23:07 am
if you want to stop hydrogen recombination you must constantly ionize it otherwise it will either react with itself to form H2 or form other compounds depends on the environment.. if you want to ionize it you can form rf plasma ..

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/64720/sonca_1.pd
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 10, 2013, 08:57:22 am
if you want to stop hydrogen recombination you must constantly ionize it otherwise it will either react with itself to form H2 or form other compounds depends on the environment.. if you want to ionize it you can form rf plasma .. 5Watts rf is sufficient for small reactor.

Tell me more Geon.
How should something like that looks like?

Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 10, 2013, 09:00:19 am
if you want to stop hydrogen recombination you must constantly ionize it otherwise it will either react with itself to form H2 or form other compounds depends on the environment.. if you want to ionize it you can form rf plasma .. 5Watts rf is sufficient for small reactor.

Tell me more Geon.
How should something like that looks like?

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/64720/sonca_1.pd

extremely_valuable_information!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

for hydrogen not to recombine you must also use exact frequency and that is the frequency of the hydrogen bonds.. any frequency will improve electrolysis efficiency ..
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 10, 2013, 20:18:47 pm
Very nice thanks
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 10, 2013, 23:46:42 pm
for improving electrolysis it's useful to increase the reaction rate of water..
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 10, 2013, 23:58:45 pm
hmmm, i cannot see the website...

Resource not found, it says...

Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 11, 2013, 03:06:21 am
http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstream/handle/2027.42/64720/sonca_1.pdf

there was a f missing in the link

now it works
Title: Re: Atomic Hydrogen
Post by: Login to see usernames on June 17, 2013, 19:20:24 pm

Preliminary Experiments with Flames of Atomic Hydrogen




To try out the possibility of blowing atomic hydrogen out of an arc, 20-ampere arcs from a constant-current transformer were passed between two tungsten rods 6 mm in diameter mounted transversely in a horizontal alundum tube (10 cm diameter) through which a stream of hydrogen flowed. With voltages from 300 to 800V, arcs could be maintained with electrode separations up to 2 cm. The magnetic field of the arc caused the hydrogen to move transversely so that it became fan-shaped. Iron rods 2 or 3 mm in diameter melted within 1 or 2 seconds when they were held 3 to 5 cm above the arc. By directing a jet of hydrogen from a small tube into the arc, the atomic hydrogen could be blown out of the arc and formed an intensely hot flame. To maintain the arc in a stable condition the electrodes were brought close together (1 to 3 mm), but the arc did not remain entirely between the electrodes, but extended as a fan to a distance of 5 to 8 mm. The flame of atomic hydrogen, however, extended far beyond the arc. At distances of 1 or 2 cm from the arc molybdenum (m.p. 2900oK) melted with ease. Near the end of the arc tungsten rods and even sheet tungsten (m.p. 3660oK) could be melted. The use of hydrogen under these conditions for melting and welding metals proved to have many advantages. Iron can be melted without contamination by carbon, oxygen, or nitrogen. Because of the powerful reducing action of the atomic hydrogen, alloys containing chromium, aluminum, silicon, or manganese can be melted without fluxes and without surface oxidation.Temperature of Atomic Hydrogen Flame Compared with Other Flames Let us suppose we could obtain atomic hydrogen in bulk at atmospheric pressure and room temperature and that we could then let this burn to the molecular form in a flame. What would be the temperature of this flame and how would it compare with that of other flames? Taking the heat of reaction (for 2 grams) to be 98,000 calories and taking the specific heat of molecular hydrogen (for 2 grams) to be 6.5 + 0.0009 T, we find that the heat of the reaction would be sufficient to heat the hydrogen to 9200oK. The dissociation of the hydrogen, however, would prevent the temperature from rising to any such high value. If x is the degree of dissociation at the maximum temperature reached, the available heat of recombination is only (1-x) 98,000. Langmuir plotted two curves based on his accumulated data . These two curves intersected at T = 4030oK and x = 0.642. Thus atomic hydrogen at room temperature and atmospheric pressure would heat itself to 40300K and the degree of dissociation would then be 0.642. There is another factor which tends greatly to increase the temperature of the atomic hydrogen flame even above the calculated value of 4030oK. The atomic hydrogen, instead of being originally at room temperature, is already at a high temperature at the moment of its escape from the arc. The conditions are analogous to those in an oxyhydrogen flame in which both gases are preheated. Thus the upper limit of temperature is fixed only by the degree of dissociation of the hydrogen and the rate at which heat is lost by radiation or contact with bodies of lower temperature. Rate of Surface Heating by Flames Although the high temperature of the atomic hydrogen flame is of great importance when it is desired to melt substances of very high melting point such as tungsten, a factor of even greater importance in for example ordinary welding operations is the speed with which heat can be delivered to a surface per unit area. If a Bunsen burner flame delivers 51 watts per sq. cm to the whole surface of a black body, it would thus heat it to a maximum temperature of 17300K. If heat is applied by the flame to one side of a plate-shaped body and the heat is radiated from both sides, the maximum temperature reached would be 1450oK. The fact that the Bunsen flame does not heat bodies so hot as this indicates that the rate of surface heating decreases as the temperature of the body increases. The heat reaches the surface from such a flame by conduction through a relatively stationary film of gas. The decrease in the temperature gradient when the body becomes hot would explain the lower rate of surface heating. With 1330 watts per sq. cm delivered by the atomic hydrogen flame, the temperature of a black body would rise to 3900oK. The power radiated from tungsten at its melting point is 395 watts per sq. cm, and 1330 watts per sq. cm should heat tungsten to about 5300oK. At such high temperatures, however, the rate of surface heating by an atomic hydrogen flame must decrease because of the fact that the hydrogen remains partly dissociated so that the recombination is not complete. With surface temperatures below 2000oK, however, this factor would be negligible. It is probable that the rate of surface heating would be dependent not so much on the temperature gradient in the surface film of gas as on the rate of diffusion of atomic hydrogen through this film. Thus we may expect the rate of delivery of energy to a metal surface to remain nearly constant until the surface reaches a temperature of at least 2000oK.It now became of interest to determine what fraction of the total energy in an arc or a flame could be delivered to a large flat surface against which the flame was directed. For this purpose a cylinder of copper 10.5 cm in diameter and 9.8 cm long was used, which weighed 7950 grams. The flame was directed against one of the flat polished ends, and the rate of temperature rise was measured. An atomic hydrogen flame was produced by a 60-ampere a.c. arc using a torch like that shown here: The voltage across the electrodes was 70 volts. A wattmeter showed that the power consumption in the arc was 3510 watts, which gives a power factor of 0.84. The electrodes were tungsten rods 3.2 mm in diameter which made an angle of 55 degrees with one another. The rate of flow of hydrogen which bathed the electrodes was 14.2 liters per minute (30 cubic feet per hour). From the temperature rise of the copper block the heat delivered to the surface was found to correspond to 3100 watts when the electrode tips were 3 to 5 mm from the copper surface. This decreased to 2800 watts at 13 mm, 2500W at 25 mm, and 2200W at 35 mm. With the arc turned off but the molecular hydrogen burning in the air, the rate of heating corresponded to 250 watts with the electrodes 6 mm from the surface. Subtracting this energy delivered by the combustion of the hydrogen in the air, we find that the energy carried to the metal by the atomic hydrogen ranged from 2850 to 1950 watts. Thus with the electrodes 3 mm from the metal 82 per cent of the power input into the arc was delivered to the copper surface. This efficiency became 78 per cent at 6 mm, 71 at 13 mm, 65 at 25 mm, and 55 per cent at 35 mm. The power corresponding to the complete combustion of 14.2 liters of hydrogen per minute is 2360 watts. Actually, only 250 watts or 11 per cent of this reaches the copper. The total energy of the arc and the flame of molecular hydrogen is 5870 watts, of which 3100 watts or 53 per cent is delivered to the copper. An oxy-acetylene flame from a standard welding torch consuming 30.6 liters of oxygen per minute (64.8 cubic feet per hour) and 28.6 liters of acetylene per minute (60.6 cubic feet per hour) delivered energy at the rate of 4400 watts to the copper surface. A smaller torch consuming 13.7 liters of oxygen per minute and 13.0 of acetylene (29.0 and 27.5 cubic feet per hour, respectively) gave energy to the copper at the rate of 3900 watts.Application of Atomic Hydrogen Flames to Welding of Metals The high temperature of The Atomic Hydrogen flame, together with its powerful chemical reducing action and the avoidance of gases containing oxygen and nitrogen, render it particularly useful for welding, not only for iron and its alloys, but for such metals and alloys as contain aluminum, magnesium, chromium, manganese, etc. The previous figure illustrates one of the later forms of torch used for welding. Two tungsten rods, as electrodes, are held at a definite angle to one another by easily adjustable clamps, and a jet of hydrogen is directed from a small nozzle along each of these rods near its end. The hydrogen thus bathes the heated parts of the electrodes and forms a gentle blast of gas which passes through the arc between the electrode tips, and blows the atomic hydrogen away from the electrodes so that these are not unduly heated. Other torches were also built suitable for automatic welding using machine feed. The electrodes were ordinarily separated 3 or 4 mm and the arc assumed a fan shape extending 6 to 10 mm from the electrodes. Alternating current was generally used. To utilize the atomic hydrogen flame for the welding of metals it became important to have easy and complete control of the flame. Many different forms of welding torches were constructed and tested. The electrodes between which the arc passed were mounted at a convenient angle to one another and were adjustable so that they could be brought into contact at a point which was exposed to a blast of hydrogen from one or more orifices. Thus the atomic hydrogen was blown out of the arc in a definite direction and formed a flame which could be brought into contact with the metal to be welded. The jet of hydrogen also served to bathe all the heated parts of the electrodes and the work, thus preventing oxidation and the introduction of impurities such as nitrogen into the weld. The hydrogen was supplied by a tube which passed through the handle and then by flexible tubes was delivered to each of the electrode holders and escaped through the annular spaces between the electrodes and the lava insulators. Sufficient hydrogen was used not only to surround each of the electrodes to their tips but to form a blast which blew the atomic hydrogen against the work and bathed it in hydrogen.
Both the striking voltage and the arc voltage were higher for an arc in hydrogen than for the ordinary welding arc since there was no appreciable amount of metallic vapor generated in the arc. The standard arc welding equipment of those days was therefore not suitable as a power source for operating the atomic hydrogen torch. If direct current was used the arc could be stabilized by a series resistance or a specially designed generator of the constant-current type could also be used. With series resistance a line voltage of 250 was found to give good results. Alternating current was more convenient and, since the arc could then be stabilized by reactance instead of resistance, greater efficiency was usually obtained. A line voltage of 350 to 400 gave satisfactory operation. Voltages as high as this were needed solely to give stability and to enable the arc to be started at any time by separating the electrodes even when these were cold. A number of tests were made to determine the voltages required to strike an arc by means of the lever mechanism of the torch. With cold electrodes an open circuit ac voltage of 320 was needed for striking the arc. After the arc had been started and the electrode tips had reached the operating temperature a line voltage of only 150 was sufficient to restart the arc as long as the electrodes remained nearly at the operating temperature. These lower voltages could also be employed to start and maintain the arc if the electrodes were first raised to high temperature by a high current while separating them very slightly so as to have a high contact resistance or by bringing a thin tungsten rod between the separated tips of the electrodes. It was more convenient, however, to use open circuit voltages of approximately 400V rather than to employ these special means of starting the arcs. In normal operation the drop across the arc was in the neighborhood of 80 volts. To avoid danger to the operator the entire arc circuit was preferably insulated from ground. A motor-generator was used to give either direct or alternating current for the arc, but it was usually more satisfactory to use a specially designed transformer. The connections that were used in most of the work to be described are shown in Fig. 3. When the arc was not operating the electrodes were in contact by the action of the spring attached to the control lever, so that there were no voltages on the electrodes and the torch could be laid down on any material without danger of flashing the operator's eyes. To strike the arc the electrodes were merely separated by pressing the lever. Should the open-circuit voltage at any time be impressed across the electrodes when separated, or the operator break the arc by spreading the electrodes too far apart, a relay in the arc circuit (contactor B as shown in Fig. 3) would trip the feeder circuit, in which case it was necessary for the electrodes to be brought in contact again before the main feeder circuit could be restored. The voltage drop across the arc while in operation varied from 60 to 100 volts, depending on the amount of opening between the electrode tips. This voltage was nearly independent of the current, between the limits of 20 and 70 amp, although a slight decrease in voltage was usually noted when the current was increased. Repeated experiments showed that the lower voltage arc (60 to 80 volts) obtained by separating the electrodes only 1/16 or 1/8 of an inch had a more concentrated working zone and was the most efficient arc for most kinds of welding. By bringing the arc closer to the surface of a larger mass of metal it was found that the metal melted very rapidly. For welding, the maximum rate of heating was desired and this was obtained by bringing the torch so close to the metal that the lower portion of the fan shaped arc was just about in contact with the metal and this caused the arc to change its shape somewhat. The tips of the electrodes were then usually about 3/8 to 1/2 in. from the metal. Portions of the arc could at times become short-circuited by the metal so that the tracks of cathode spots on the metal could be seen,but this seemed to play no important part in the welding process.



Conclusions




The above is a general account of the course of events that led to the development of the atomic hydrogen arc welding technique. Although Langmuir himself had many ideas for other applications of atomic hydrogen, such as using it in melting furnaces, and although General Electric themselves were aware of the vast potential of atomic hydrogen (as expressed by the editor of the General Electric Research Laboratory Publication.The point of inception of many important practical processes can be found in researches in pure science. Following Dr. Langmuir's discovery of atomic hydrogen, conclusion was reached that flames of this gas make possible new applications of far-reaching importance), no subsequent effort was made to develop neither the welding method nor any other application using atomic hydrogen. In spite of the obvious value of the process, industry's excuse for laying the process aside was that it had been replaced by better processes such as Heliarc, TIG, and MIG welding, though plasma arc welding is rarely mentioned which has also almost disappeared from the market. Since plasma arc welding is merely an extension of the atomic hydrogen process, the reasons are undoubtedly the same. As a welding process, atomic hydrogen arc welding was obsolesced by MIG and TIG neither of which compare to its welding efficiency and uses. Considering that atomic hydrogen arc welding hardly got of the ground before it was replaced, it is not a far fetched thought to assume that the interests of welding suppliers and electric power companies were being nursed so that more archaic tanks, transformers, gauges, torches, electrodes, gases, fluxes, power etc. could continue to be sold at profit. The reader is reminded of the fact that Langmuir's experiments and findings were taking place almost 100 years ago. Since then, technology has progressed dramatically in many fields. If Langmuir had at his disposal the know-how and technology of today, our world may have looked different. However, we are now in the fortunate situation that we do possess the data of Langmuir's findings, which can be combined with today's technological know-how. The obvious direction in which to look is the same direction that seems to have been the fundamental reason for Langmuirs discoveries having been swept under the carpet: CLEAN AND ABUNDANT ENERGY. If anyone looks up to find any information on atomic hydrogen arc welding, only a few lines will appear, simply informing that the arc is maintained between two metal electrodes in an atmosphere of hydrogen. Shielding is obtained from the hydrogen. Pressure and/or filler metal may or may not be used. Although the process has limited industrial use today, atomic hydrogen welding is used to weld hard-to-weld metals, such as chrome, nickel, molybdenum steels, Inconel, Monel and stainless steel. Its main application is tool and die repair welding and for the manufacture of steel alloy chains. Also used in special military welding requirements. Nothing is mentioned of the extraordinary properties of atomic hydrogen, nor of its potential for the use as energy to drive the wheels of mankind. However, and quite surprisingly, in one edition of Van Nostrand's Encyclopedia of Science it was stated Hydrogen molecules dissociate to atoms endothermically at high temperatures (heat of dissociation about 103 cal/gram mole) in an electric arc, or by irradiation. The hydrogen atoms recombine at the metal surface to provide heat required for welding. What is surprising here is that the actual energy value needed for the dissociation of the hydrogen molecule is given, but the calorific value for the recombination of the atoms into molecules is strangely omitted. From Langmuir's experiments and findings we know that the minimum calorific value for the recombination of atoms was agreed to be in the region 90.000 cal/gram molecule. In other words we have an input energy of 103 cal/gram molecule and an output energy of 90.000 cal/gram molecule. In conventional science this seems to be violating the law of conservation of energy. Langmuir explained this (however, not very convincingly) by the heat being carried forward from the arc to the metal surface. One area which certainly deserves the attention of modern science, is the replication of Langmuirs experiments using high-tech measurement equipment.