# A green and clean environment is a human right!

## Projects by members => Projects by members => Kinesisfilms => Topic started by: kinesisfilms on April 23, 2009, 04:49:59 am

Title: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 23, 2009, 04:49:59 am
i have talked with Dr. William Gerard Hurley......the reason why my signal and power are not being dumped into the cell is becuase the coil and wfc are not matched.......stephen meyer has spoken about impedance matching.......

so this is a section dedicated to impedance matching between the coil and wfc.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 23, 2009, 05:08:36 am
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impedance_matching

Impedance matching is the electronics design practice of setting the input impedance (ZL) of an electrical load equal to the fixed output impedance (ZS) of the signal source to which it is ultimately connected, usually in order to maximize the power transfer and minimize reflections from the load. This only applies when both are linear devices.
The concept of impedance matching was originally developed for electrical power, but can be applied to any other field where a form of energy (not just electrical) is transferred between a source and a load.

Matching is obtained when ZL = ZS*.

Terminology

Sometimes the term "impedance matching" is used loosely to mean "choosing impedances that work well together" instead of "making two impedances complex conjugate". The looser interpretation includes impedance bridging, where the load impedance is much larger than the source impedance. Bridging connections are used to maximize the voltage transfer, not the power transfer.
With modern audio electronics, impedance matching degrades audio performance;[1][2] impedance bridging is used instead.

hmm... maybe we want impedance bridging instead... this is a voltage process, and it is in the "audio range" as stan says in the NZ video

More to learn... it never ends
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 23, 2009, 05:25:12 am
I'd say its impossible for your enginer guy to know what exactly you were talking about .

what is happening here is something relating to vortexes , and shapes , space , geometry , opposing fields .

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 23, 2009, 06:03:34 am
he builds circuits for solar panels.....he designs tracking systems and says the problem with a signal degrading would be lack of matched impedance between the inductor and capacitor.......

just telling everyone what i have been told.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 23, 2009, 07:22:53 am
at resonance the impedances match.

Zl = Zs*
<=> jwL = -(1/jwC)

which is what you are looking for.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2009, 04:53:42 am
yes but the problem is is that i have sweeped and have gotten no success in finding "resonance" which lead me to believe it was something else that was still not right....i still have to try the last bifilar configuration.....hopefully.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2009, 15:30:32 pm
what do you mean with no success?
there are several ways to find resonance, i'd calculate it and then search in the frequency range for current and voltage to be in phase.
that must happen sooner or later  ???
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 24, 2009, 15:57:06 pm
You shorted your wire thats why , if you pumped 60 volts in the input you shorted your wire , since 5 volts gave you 1 kv ... What you need now is to fuckin pay attention dude .

The coils should be wound red/green/red/green  anyways .

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 25, 2009, 08:10:46 am
haithar.....i have calculated it.....it still doesn't make a difference......something is still not right.

trust me i have tried a wide variety of approaches.

this is how john has it wound....bifilar windings in seperate sections as in this figure.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/johnbifilar.jpg)
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 25, 2009, 19:18:19 pm
Because you fried your coil duh ...

Now you have to re-wind those chokes
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 26, 2009, 11:49:18 am
i have talked with Dr. William Gerard Hurley......the reason why my signal and power are not being dumped into the cell is becuase the coil and wfc are not matched.......stephen meyer has spoken about impedance matching.......

so this is a section dedicated to impedance matching between the coil and wfc.
I think you want all your power dumped into the chokes _only_, as a result all power gets converted to magnetic energy, induced voltage becomes highest and will be seen by the open circuit cell.
I still believe the frequency you want must result in a max choke imp. and min cell imp. (contrary to what you'd thnk by reading the first sntence)
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 00:56:33 am
i know i always go back and forth between Xl>Xc and XL=XC.....but here is this......why does meyers use the resonant frequency equation in the intro to the tech brief....that only means XC=XL!!!
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/mathematics2.jpg)
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 02:58:33 am
Kinesis why are you so lost .

Theres no way those 2 can ever be matched .

And theres no way the impedance between the coil and cell can ever me matched .

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 03:00:55 am
if Xc = Xl then Xc-Xl is zero, so Z series is zero so in the ohms law equation...

Vt = I*Z

Vt = I*(zero)

... or realistically, Z series "approaches" zero (as related to limits in calculus)

... thus I must "approach" infinity as Z approaches zero to maintain any sort of voltage

series LC resonance will yield maximum current and low voltage

what we really want is parallel LC (or RLC) resonance...

in parallel LC resonance you get maximum current impedance, and infinite voltage.

Look at the VIC matrix circuit, you will see the self capacitance of the resonance charging chokes are in parallel with the inductance giving you a parallel RLC circuit

Note that the capacitance of the resonant cavity has to be small otherwise it would get in the way of the parallel resonance because the resonant cavity is in series!
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 03:28:08 am
donald i have been where you are now in parallel and series but i have realized that it is not the case here.....we want maximum magnetic field inside our coil.....maximum magnetic field produces maximum output and holds current back......so in fact we are looking at series resonance....maximum current flow into our coil maximum energy output and current held back......that jump in current does not pump into the capacitor......it is held in the coil and coil only due to wire materials and magnetic field.

and since xc-xl=0 then Z=R......so this is exactly what stan is doing stan got 40,000 kv from this coil with a 12 volt input......12 volts divided by 11,600 ohms equals .001 amps and if we started with an input of 12 volts at 3.3 amps totaling 40 watts....the conversion while maintaining our 40 watts would yield 40,000 volts at .001 amps.....everything does add up.

so it is ok for XC=XL.......then Z=R.....and mathematically that is exactly what stan was doing.....or else we would be getting different numbers rather then 40,000 at .001 amps.

sticking to the papers and info.....and your an idiot dankie.....quote: "there is no way those two can ever be matched"....how about you learn how old radios work.....a frequency can match any inductor capacitor combination.....HENCE RESONANT FREQUENCY.....oh please.....EQ 4......THAT SAYS THEY CAN BE MATCHED......you are lost......you most likely haven't even finished your physics classes yet....ugh.....
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 04:04:44 am
hmm, also makes sense...

ok, dream with me for a minute here, what would happen if you hit the parallel resonance and the series resonance at the same time?

(if the self capacitance of the coil was the same as the capacitance of the resonant cavity?)

would that even work, or is that an impossible idea, i have no idea what would even happen, maybe it would send maximum current into the chokes and maximum voltage out of them, to the cell
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 05:32:59 am
peak a boo
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 05:57:28 am
ok donald to your first tpoic on this page.....i think that is happening on the inside of the coil as well.....but in the end it comes down to series once you "zoom out" of the picture.....

and to your second post.....see there are the conflictions there....this is why i always keep going back and forth.......i just don't know yet.......the one resonant equation (4) says that xc=xl.....while the screengrab you posted says otherwise......it will either be a standing wave (eq 4) or a moving force into the capcitor via (eq 24)

so until the time comes again it once again comes down to a confliction......maybe stan made it work in 2 different ways in order to cover all possible ways around the patent.....but that sounds like a horrible idea.....maybe it works both ways....maybe not.....i really haven't a clue.....and this is what alan and i keep coming back too......this statement you have provided conflicts the 3 equations in the beginning of the tech brief (F, XC, XL)

so until we have a signal in a tube cell we won't know.

but these are great posts donald....thank you for screen grabbing that...i couldn't remember where i read that.

and a while ago i posted the math for the situation when inductor must be larger then capacitance in terms of reactance.....but one thing happens.....the frequency is different for the inductor and capacitor when it comes down to the reatance equations maybe that is a clue or trick.........then if that was the case all the equations would fit perfectly in those situations......hmmmm.....wait a minute this might actually have something to it.

i can write this out later....but i have to study!
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 06:15:48 am
yea it's lots of fun isn't it, i am going to have to spend a lot more time tearing the tech brief apart, as well as the patents and videos... and some non-stan electrical info... but learning new stuff each and every day is a great way to go

i've been thinking there could be a lot to learn from taking the example from the fuel gas patent, with the 4 inch cell, 100 turn inductors, and 200:600 toroid, and just hammer out every possible calculation for the circuit to understand the simplest form of the system

then i'm thinking it is a different process, a lot more action going on in the VIC Coil...
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 16:51:00 pm
Impedance is the resistance to AC in relation to frequency .

Ok kinesis . If  you think you can ``match the impedance`` of your coil to the impedance of your water cell than do it ... You are gonna need an RLC meter for this and see .

Remember to use very very pure water when you do your tests , perhaps they will be =  at certain frequency .

I say this because we know that the resistance of water will be low , this is a parallel resistance and some capacitance . The isnt the same kind of capacitor that acts like a open circuit with DC , thats why I think your ``impedance`` wont match .

Haitair , Stevie , plz help us out here .

We measure the ''impedance'' of positive choke coil 56 and our cell . Can the ''impedance'' of these 2 seperate components ever be matched ?
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 17:39:20 pm

We measure the ''impedance'' of positive choke coil 56 and our cell . Can the ''impedance'' of these 2 seperate components ever be matched ?
Yes, because the impedances are dependant on the frequency of voltage the circuit is pulsed with.
As Meyer states, the impedance of a coil is XL, while the impedance of a capacitor is -XC, this is due to the complex numbers.
XL = jwL = j 2*pi*f*L
XC = 1/jwC = 1/j 2*pi*f*C ) = - j/wC

the whole resistance of a RLC series circuit is: Z = Rohm + XC + XL = Rohm  + j (wL - 1/wC)
|XC| and |XL| match at the resonant frequency of the circuit where the resistance is lowest, therefore power consumption is the highest, voltages at coil and cap are 180° out of phase and the voltage at both parts is the highest.
the grade of voltage amplification is determined by Q = Uc / U where Uc is the voltage at coil/capacitor and U the voltage which is put in.
Q is: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/math/0/7/e/07e52d56b2b580c4acb409744f69142e.png), as you see it's ~ 1/R. The thing with stainless steel wire is that because of it's massive resistance the quality of the circuit is extremely low and thus the voltage amplification.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 18:36:57 pm
well i have to study for a full 12 hours today......2 exams one day 30 minutes apart......so after everything is done i will write up the math behind what is going on.......when it comes down to the XL reactance and XC reactance worked into XL>XC and our resonant frequency is found for the overall system it should be noted that the frequencies inside the capacitor and frequencies in the inductor are two completely different frequencies.

take equation 2 equation 3 equation 4 the concept from equation 24 and you will see what i am talking about....make the reactance larger for XL then XC......find the resonant frequency using eq 4 and then take the same information and input it into the reactance equations and you will see that there are 3 completely different frequencies.......these 3 different frequencies are ( the frequency in the inductor, the frequency in the capacitor, and the overal resonant frequency or combination of the other frequencies of the entire system).......there may in fact be harmonics going on here....but i have no time to work out the real numbers.......i will after wednesday.

this might be a huge part to our unsuccessful trials.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 19:11:08 pm
To test for your resonant frequency , just connect one of the chokes to your cell and pulse with an AC signal , perhaps use an ampli if your signal gen lacks power .

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 19:23:00 pm
well i have to study for a full 12 hours today......2 exams one day 30 minutes apart......
yeah that sucks, this term we have to do practicals which are 4 hours long each week, next week is "measurement of non-sinusoidal voltages/currents". at least it's of use for the whole wfc thing ;)
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 27, 2009, 22:20:19 pm
the resonant frequency of the resonant cavity is most likely the gate frequency, and the resonant frequency of the chokes is most likely the pulsing frequency (or the doubled pulse frequency)

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2009, 08:03:01 am
the resonant frequency of the resonant cavity is most likely the gate frequency, and the resonant frequency of the chokes is most likely the pulsing frequency (or the doubled pulse frequency)

fuck yeah donald.....this is exactly what im thinking......hell yes......i'm glad you have thought that.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2009, 11:21:53 am
the resonant frequency of the resonant cavity is most likely the gate frequency, and the resonant frequency of the chokes is most likely the pulsing frequency (or the doubled pulse frequency)

*  yeah donald.....this is exactly what im thinking......hell yes......i'm glad you have thought that.

Nice thinking, but i think its not the case.
The resonance frequency of the cavity. What do you mean with that?
Mechanical resonance?
Electrical resonance?

If it is the last, are you looking for wavelenghts? Well in that case you need mhz or ghz waves.

br
Steve

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2009, 14:29:28 pm

it's not an electrical resonance such as that between a capacitor and an inductor, where the waves propagate at the the speed of light, i am not exactly sure how to describe it properly, but it is closer to a mechanical/acoustical/physical resonance of the electrical stress induced in the water that causes them to oscillate, more like an atomic resonance between the covalent bonds as the fluctuate

why doesn't straight high voltage DC work in the cell? well it might, but stan describes this as a static electrical stress on the water, while pulsed DC is a dynamic electrical stress on the water

just think of tesla's earthquake machine, it was the size of a cigar box or something, you set it on a bridge and it does nothing (static), you turn it on and have it vibrate at the right frequency and it'll destroy the bridge (dynamic)

also the term resonant cavity is not Stan's technology, it is something he learned about and put to use, (it's in the dictionary right next to resonant charging chokes too) ... i haven't found many other sources of information on them, but i'll be looking and i bet there is a big book all about them somewhere :)
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2009, 15:06:28 pm
which patentnr again?  :-[
Quote
it's not an electrical resonance such as that between a capacitor and an inductor
what gives the wfc its capacitive properties?
the disability of water to allow current and storing separated charge on the ss only, or all the watermolecules each being a separate capacitor, serially and parallel interconnected, giving it a single resonant frequency?

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2009, 16:37:54 pm
I think this gating hypothesis being a resonant frequency is farfetched .

It will be tested tho .
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2009, 19:09:20 pm
the patent is attached

the resonant cavity is a capacitor in that it has two conductive opposite charged plates with water as a dielectric in between, and he also talks about the water molecules being individual micro capacitors, however i don't know too much about this or how to use this fact

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 28, 2009, 21:21:15 pm
farfetched......your one to talk...nonwaves and watchmen.

alright how will a capacitor be in resonance when it is receiving a unipolar train???? it can't it has to be gated......so it is gated when the capacitor reaches full energy storage....then the voltage is dropped to ground level and re built back up......hence teh "tidal wave" wave forms.

now teh inductor will be pulsed at a certain frequency.......that frequency upon leaving the inductor is doubled (via double pulse) now forming a unipolar DC power.

DC cannot be in resonance between a capacitor and inductor unless it is switched on and off.....hence gating.

hell no it is not farfetched.

ask any professor if you can use dc power in resonance and they will reply "yes if you pulse it on and off"

it mimicks ac but is not ac......it is unipolar.....

i will gladly throw up some numbers.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2009, 00:49:17 am
the resonance in the cell that stan speaks of is not as much of a electrical resonance but the frequencys at which production is most effecient.. all being determined by the chokes gated frequency.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2009, 00:55:14 am
The "capacitor" will never reach the point where it reaches "full-energy storage" , thats the problem .

The gate is as Meyers says , relaxation time , I believe him in that aspect . Makes sense to me , gas has to leave and new water must fill the space .

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2009, 01:14:35 am
relaxation time  when gates open or closed?
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2009, 03:12:39 am
outlaw:

quote "the resonance in the cell that stan speaks of is not as much of a electrical resonance"

every one of those equations in the patent are for electrical resoanance....and i bet if i went through stans videos i would come across a point where he actually says "electrical resonance."

dankie:
quote "The "capacitor" will never reach the point where it reaches "full-energy storage" , thats the problem"

actually it will.....or else there would be no difference between 30 ft capacitor and 3mm capacitor.......you will learn about something called farads......a a 3 inch vic can only hold a certain charge of energy regardless.

so yes there is a point in which it will reach "full-energy storage"

dankie sometimes you are the worst.....please educate yourself on the basics before diving into theoretical works......im sick of statements like "capcitors will never reach an energy capcity limit......A CAPACITOR HAS A CAPACITY AND IT CAN AND WILL BE FILLED!....take a sine wave and full wave rectify it....send it into a wfc capacitor.....you will get bubbles and see stepcharging on your scope.......it will reach a definite limit.....adn you can start it all over again after gating.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2009, 03:51:17 am
outlaw:

quote "the resonance in the cell that stan speaks of is not as much of a electrical resonance"

every one of those equations in the patent are for electrical resoanance....and i bet if i went through stans videos i would come across a point where he actually says "electrical resonance."

dankie:
quote "The "capacitor" will never reach the point where it reaches "full-energy storage" , thats the problem"

actually it will.....or else there would be no difference between 30 ft capacitor and 3mm capacitor.......you will learn about something called farads......a a 3 inch vic can only hold a certain charge of energy regardless.

so yes there is a point in which it will reach "full-energy storage"

dankie sometimes you are the worst.....please educate yourself on the basics before diving into theoretical works......im sick of statements like "capcitors will never reach an energy capcity limit......A CAPACITOR HAS A CAPACITY AND IT CAN AND WILL BE FILLED!....take a sine wave and full wave rectify it....send it into a wfc capacitor.....you will get bubbles and see stepcharging on your scope.......it will reach a definite limit.....adn you can start it all over again after gating.

The capacitor has a low resistance and in parallel and will never reach its total Coulombs capacity , it is always loosing its charge and will never reach its maximum point .

We all know the problem with this capacitor is that it cant hold a charge for squat , this "breaking point" theory never gets reached . I dont care about bubbles and what you claim to be a step-charge , show us this step charge  .

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 29, 2009, 18:47:56 pm
I dont care about bubbles and what you claim to be a step-charge , show us this step charge

i will show you the concept idiot.

you are highly uneducated.

i will show you the scope and the capacitor reaching its LIMIT.

then you will STFU for being a dumbass over and over.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 30, 2009, 04:27:29 am
god damnit the a time / div is too fast for my camera it has to trace the step charging wave form and i cannot get it in a photo.

so dankie instead of being some handicapped baby asking for people to prove it why don't you grab

1. full wave bridge rectification diode.

2. 2 metal objects

3. water

4. mosfet

5. a fucking battery.

take your little signal generator at a 50 percent duty cycle pulse and run it through the mosfet which draws it's power from the battery and full wave rectify it......I use an audio frequency transformer in between the mosfet and diode rectifier to isolate the 2 circuits and not damage anything.....

the bridghe rectifier will create your unipolar pulses. aka double frequency.....run that into your capacitor......now connect the positive lead of your oscope probe to the positive tube and the negative tube to the ground clip of the probe.

you will see the capactiors LIMIT CLEARLY EXISTS......

hence these statements.....there is a limit.....hence the terminology called FARADS.....a capcitor can only hold so much energy between it's plates.....there for the energy you put into the cell will reach it's limit.....if you are pumping in 99.9% potential energy it will hold that......but never more......there is CLEARLY A LIMIT......LEARN AC RESONANCE, READ....educate yourself in meyers before running off to higher levels of thought that you yourself are incapable of understanding at this moment.....you try and take these advanced theories and apply them to stans work when you haven't even educated yourself in stans theories yet.

BABY STEPS FOR BABIES.

i want you to read these.....NOT JUST THE UNDERLINED WORDS....but READ AND COMPREHEND....i know you have atleast gotten through your eng 1,2 and spc.....hopefully.
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/4301.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/4302.jpg)

outlaw:
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/4303.jpg)
(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/4305.jpg)

the equations he gives are for electrical resonance....the thing though is that eq 4 is not as simple as it seems.....yes it is in fact the resonant frequency......but there are 2 frequencies inside the one final frequency.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 30, 2009, 19:50:20 pm
So a single period of Pwf is the step charge from ground to peak voltage to ground again? Never seen it like this.
I considered T3 / gate as relaxation like Dankie pointed out, to discharge the cap unto itself.

Does (or should) energy from the battery get stored in or go to the wfc?
I believe not: no energy from the circuit should enter the wfc from the circuit.
But if voltage steps up, energy enters the wfc. From the water perhaps?
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on April 30, 2009, 19:55:26 pm
So a single period of Pwf is the step charge from ground to peak voltage to ground again? Never seen it like this.
I considered T3 / gate as relaxation like Dankie pointed out, to discharge the cap unto itself.

Does (or should) energy from the battery get stored in or go to the wfc?
I believe not: no energy from the circuit should enter the wfc from the circuit.
But if voltage steps up, energy enters the wfc. From the water perhaps?

hmmmm
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 01, 2009, 08:38:37 am
So a single period of Pwf is the step charge from ground to peak voltage to ground again? Never seen it like this.
I considered T3 / gate as relaxation like Dankie pointed out, to discharge the cap unto itself.

Does (or should) energy from the battery get stored in or go to the wfc?
I believe not: no energy from the circuit should enter the wfc from the circuit.
But if voltage steps up, energy enters the wfc. From the water perhaps?

alan by far this is the worst thing i have heard......the vic and cell draw 40 watts clearly stated in THE TECH BRIEF and will use up a battery as stated at the end of the tech brief.....it draws energy from the battery.....god damnit.....this forum is falling to kooks.

the energy doesn't magically come from water......the batteries energy is stored in the capacitor as the water takes on the energy....the energy itself begins to split the water apart....a dielectric breakdown.....IE gas production.....really i would love it if more people are hands on......this will stop all the wondering and magic energy vortex spiraling ether potential nonwave water life force drawing capacitor cell.

YES HALF OF THAT SHIT DOES EXIST......BUT.....MEYERS TECHNOLOGY IS K.I.S.S.......neutrinos???? next will be radiation spiraling of neutrinos which activate the water molecules magical bonds to alleviate there shackles of existence......

PLEASE ALAN IF YOU ARE TO MAKE SUCH POORLY BOLD STATEMENTS AS THE ABOVE STATE YOUR EVIDENCE....SHOW ME WHERE IN THE PATENT IT SAYS:

"Does (or should) energy from the battery get stored in or go to the wfc?
I believe not: no energy from the circuit should enter the wfc from the circuit."

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 01, 2009, 12:13:02 pm
Ideally current should be 0ma?
well yeah the concept of infinity is only a mathematical one and not working in the real world. there's always a little bit of current left if there is voltage.
theoretically even with open clamps there is some little current, but we can only measure it to 10^6A so we see it as nothing.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 01, 2009, 12:22:29 pm
The open clamp current is or should be equal to the current when the wfc is connected, there, that is what I meant :)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Th%C3%A9venin_theorem

If the open clamp current is close to zero - no matter what the properties of the cell are, no more than this current will flow to the cell.
This exact current is limited by the VIC.
Or am I making a huge mistake here?
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 01, 2009, 14:53:10 pm
Kinesis , why dont you brg us some coherent test results of something . Alot of confusion and incoherence and shorted coils is what you achieved .

And I am not appreciating your moronic tone ... Neutrinos duhhhh Meyers says K.I.S.S ...

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 17:07:11 pm
lol
I think you get me wrong: my suggestion was that none of the 40 watts reaches the WFC to charge it (amp inhibitor), it only gets dissipated in the VIC, creating 'lightning' seen by the WFC, where "voltage takes over".

the techbrief states 40.000V @ 1ma, 40kv after the chokes, meaning 40W indeed goes 'into' the wfc.
Ideally current should be 0ma?

so, ideally, no current should flow into the wfc, right?
If so, ideally, no energy to the wfc.

Don't forget driving a car using only 40W is magic in itself.

alan i see where you are mistaken but 40 watts still does reach the vic as you have said.....40,000 volts at .001 amps is 40 watts as you've noticed......it works the same way powerlines do (they step up voltage to incredibly large amounts of KV and very low current so there is no heat loss when transferring to homes and buildings then right before entering hte building they re-step it down to 120 volts very very efficient compared to dc current and edisons model).....very little is dissipated......it is all converted magnetically.....just like a transformer would do in it's magnetic field and coil windings.....ENERGY IS ENERGY.....40 watts of ENERGY IS STILL going into the cell just at 99 percent potential and 1 percent kinetic.....now that 40,000 volts of potential energy DOES CHARGE THE CAPACITOR......the charge builds up in the water molecule itself until it reaches a high enough point where the water molecules charge is larger then the covalent bonding and the molecule breaks......then that gas would continue to hold a charge......the dialetric just changes mediums but always holds a charge.....so in fact since energy is energy be it potential or kinetic energy is still stored and thus charges the capacitor.....in the earliest of patents you had to dissipate the power via a resistor causing heat in the resistor at a certain power dissipation......but in the vic nothing is dissipated but rather far more efficient by the use of conversion and a bouncing of the energy.....the energy never leaves the system since it begins to collided amongst itself charging the water to higher and higher levels until the dialetric breakdown of water equals the energy input.....and since energy is never leaving the system there is no dissipation.....the only way the energy CAN leave the system is via the seperated oxygen and hydrogen molecules.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 17:14:14 pm
Kinesis , why dont you brg us some coherent test results of something . Alot of confusion and incoherence and shorted coils is what you achieved .

And I am not appreciating your moronic tone ... Neutrinos duhhhh Meyers says K.I.S.S ...

i'm sorry if my moronic tone offends you, but your lack of simple understandings and outrageous claims is far too obtrusive for someone with lack of elementary understandings.

when your done with physics 2, and chem 2, and have actually used electricity to split water then come talk with me.

coherent test results???

im constantly on the grind.....you are always on the internet doing god knows what......i am working on this atleast once a day for an hour or more HANDS ON...and reading things over and over for a better understanding each time atleast another hour a day.....then i come on here and post what has been happening and you want to tell me that the secret to meyers is f-cking neutrinos......quit jacking off and reading topics which do not apply to this system at this current point in developement.

READ MEYERS WORK IF YOU WANT TO SOLVE MEYERS.....everytiem you propose the "real" theory it is 180 degrees from meyers.

we are working on MEYERS.

everything i do IS COHERENT.

you are the fool who brings a baseball bat to a football game.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 18:40:29 pm
Its ok Kinesis , we dont have to listen to you anymore . We know you were wrong .

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1027.msg10259/topicseen.html#msg10259

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 02, 2009, 20:48:50 pm
hahah that doesn't even work like that.

nice try though.

outlawstc is wrong in his amplitude from 0-12 in a step manner there are no sawtooth shaped wave forms going into the system......they are naturally formed inside the capacitor.....step charging naturally happens when you charge a capacitor......look it up.

if you were to do it as outlawstc says in a sawtooth manner then there would be a complete failure in the magnetic field of the inductor.....a square wave holds more energy then a sawtooth....a sawtooth wave hits it's peak at the very last second then instantly drops......a sqaure wave instantly hits its peak then drops after it's pulse is over.....thus the magnetic field in the inductor is activated instantly and charged on the square wave at a much much much better efficiency then a input sawtooth.....all a sawtooth will do is skew the entire system to be inefficient......TRY IT AND SEE FOR YOURSELF.

YOUR JUST RUNNING FROM THE INEVITABLE YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT UNTIL WHEN YOU TRY IT AND SEE THAT I AM RIGHT.

so please show me where i am wrong once again.

this is not a game.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 02:26:29 am
this is what stan has to say.....notice is says across the water capacitor plates.....not the primary or the inductor.

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/stepcharging.jpg)
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 02:40:09 am
that also matches up with this picture you posted in the other thread, it says positive voltage potential

it also lines up with the vic drawings that show the bottom choke separated from the secondary and connected to it's own ground

and on a similar note to polarity of pulses, check out this circuit too, say each of those load resistors showing the opposite unipolar pulses were each side of the wfc... and it looks like a voltage sync
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 16:44:30 pm
Quote
webers (or magnetic energy) increases, with each pulse more energy in core, as a result voltage steps up on output. In this case, the step charge could be seen on the output without a wfc connected:

this is not how inductors work.....it would be lovely but hte magnetic field reaches full strength then drops creating a second pulse......then on the next on pulse creates the same magnetic field and then drops the magnetic field again.

it doesn't consistantly increase it's magnetic field strength each time there is a pulse.....the inductor acts as a pump.....up and down up and down at a certain frequency.

think of it like a flat board in a pool of water going up and down.....it creates waves......those waves are reflected back and if it goes up and down at the right time it will create larger and larger waves ...this is RESONANCE.

inductor is the static pump.

capcitor is the dynamic increasing reflections

play with a circuit program and make the circuit in resonance....you will see.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 17:01:04 pm
Ok, how do you interpret the compounding effect in the above quote?

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 18:01:23 pm
well when dc current is sent into a capcitor via pulses (unfiltered dc) it will naturally step charge the capacitor.....so let's say that you have 5 pulses of 650 volts per pulse train.

the first pulse will go into the cell and take the cell from 0 volts to 130 volts.

the second pulse will take it from 130 votls to 260 volts.

the third pulse will take it from 260 volts to 390 volts.

the fourth pulse from 390 to 520.

and the fifth and final pulse will be from 520 to 650.

then the pulse train is gated off and the capacitor discharges it's stored energy and does work on the off stage also.

now at resonance although your input pulse may have a max amplitude of 650 volts reosnance may take it much higher.

you could continue with more pulses say 8 pulses per train......but every pulse after your 5th pulse having a max amplitude of 650 volts will still be 650 so the 6th pulse will be 650 the 7th will be 650 andthe 8th will be 650.....this is hte limit.....the limit depends on the energy in the pulse and the water itself.

SERIOUSLY THIS IS NO MYSTERY IF YOU WANT TO SEE IT FOR YOURSELF......take a 50% square wave.....step it up through a transformer full wave rectify it and put it into your cell once you see the signal on your scope then begin to gate it........you will see step charging.....DO THIS SO THERE WILL BE NO MORE CONFUSION.

a capacitor doesn't jsut magically jump to a number.....it has to charge......and it does it in incremental steps.......it is in so many youtube videos on peoples meters......if you look at that visually on a scope you will see the step charging waveform.

hence capcitor chargeing and discharging equations.

becuase capacitors don't just go poof 40,000 volts.

LOOK AT THE IMAGE

(http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y2/kinesisfilms/stepfcuhcakrging.jpg)

the pulse train in the background is what goes into the cell but the waveform that is created across the plates due to the dialetric is the step charging effect.......a capacitor chargesssss damnit.......and it does it in steps.

and if you hook up your 2 probes one to hte input and one to the tubular plates you can actually recreate this exact image.

you need to make the effort to learn this for yourself.

start experimenting......you will never understand if you don't physically do it.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 19:11:42 pm
Alan i think that is a comment directly on the bifilar principle

the bifilar wires yield a stronger magnetic field then just a single choke, or two single chokes, so the two chokes "compound" each other  when wrapped bifilar... my best guess
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 19:20:04 pm
exactly donald.

teslas patent clearly states this.

i would just control F (search) "step charging" in teh tech brief and read those sections.

you are confusng the concepts.

read teslas patent on bifilar inductors....it states exactly what you quoted.

a bifilar coil simply increase the magnetic field strength much more then a normal inductor would due to it's distributed capcitance between wires which allows higher energy storage...aka larger magnetic field so the more turns of bifilar wire there are each one is basically compounded on one another like mini capacitors going -+-+-+-+-+ then it will have a greater inductance then a normal single wound coil......this is why meyers says over and over again if you want to increase the votlage potential going into the cell just add more turns to the resonant charging choke....they are directly related.

teslas patent explains it quite well.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 03, 2009, 20:52:20 pm
this to me smells like 'step charging' the flux density.
inductors, like capacitors don't reach stationary charge instantly.

this is good thinking.....but the flux has a much much easier time building up it's "charge" then a capacitor......the inductors magnetic field is created very very quickly......this is why stan can use frequencies such as 5khz pulses which can be doubled......that means that the inductor charges so fast that it can create an equal pulse on the off pulse of 5,000 pulses a second at a 50% duty cycle....a capcitor cannot charge to full energy with one pulse out of 5,000 unipolar pulses...it needs many to achieve the level do to the dialetric material and spacing......and remember we are not using XL=XC.....we are using XL>XC.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 02:27:36 am
exactly donald.

teslas patent clearly states this.

i would just control F (search) "step charging" in teh tech brief and read those sections.

you are confusng the concepts.

read teslas patent on bifilar inductors....it states exactly what you quoted.

a bifilar coil simply increase the magnetic field strength much more then a normal inductor would due to it's distributed capcitance between wires which allows higher energy storage...aka larger magnetic field so the more turns of bifilar wire there are each one is basically compounded on one another like mini capacitors going -+-+-+-+-+ then it will have a greater inductance then a normal single wound coil......this is why meyers says over and over again if you want to increase the votlage potential going into the cell just add more turns to the resonant charging choke....they are directly related.

teslas patent explains it quite well.

Ok lets imagine that the coil does work like you think , the winding is wring .

The coil shorts out too easily , thats a problem , so that meant this was wound in sequential order , not bifilar .
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 04:24:43 am
it did not short out easily.....it shorted out when i applied over 150 volts amplitude at the primary.....jolt's shorted out instantly.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 04:28:52 am
did you short your vic coil?

ouch :(
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 04:48:13 am
yes then i successfully rewound it.

but then the beginning end of the secondary snapped to short to reconnect it......and that was unfixable in my current supply of wire.

when you are working with hair thin wires it is a huge pain.

so forcing huge amounts of voltage amplitude into the primary is a no no.

and seeing that i do everything by hand with a stainless steel tube..2 toilet paper rolls....2 coffee mugs.....and counting everytime i see a red mark come around......tends to get tiring.

well it's good to know that you should not input more then 100 volts amplitude into the primary...
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 04:50:41 am
aye, best to stay in the 0 to 12 volt range i guess? is there much advantage to going past 14 volts? since you would not get that in a car...
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 05:08:37 am
aye, best to stay in the 0 to 12 volt range i guess? is there much advantage to going past 14 volts? since you would not get that in a car...

i would say 26 volts at most.....but i think around 40 votls would also be beneficial since gas production is directly related voltage amplitude.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 13:44:32 pm
differences aside if found this thread very informative.
Thanks,
burntwire
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 16:41:42 pm
now i do believe that the magnetic field intensity will slowly increase between each resonance set of pulse trains.....that means after gating the next set will be higher then the next.....and so on and so on.....hence how resonant voltage will exceed pulse voltage.....

now i still can't see that clearly enough in my head due to the dialetric breakdown......but from stans work it is resonance with dialetric breakdown...this means that not all the energy is pumped back and forth between the capcacitor and inductor....some of it is dissipated into the water.....but once the energy is too low to seperate water that little amount left is what is used for the resonance energy increase over time......so it still makes complete sense that the system will achieve higher and higher voltages even though the water is consistantly being seperated over and over again with each gated set of pulses.

if i can remember this....and i wish i had my books still i think that the time constant for capcitance relies on R and C

where Inductor's time constant is L over R.

the greek T is just a variable not a constant so T (tau) =L/R for inductors and T (tau) =RC for capacitors.

so there charging times are completely different.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 16:43:02 pm
it did not short out easily.....it shorted out when i applied over 150 volts amplitude at the primary.....jolt's shorted out instantly.

yeah, my chokes shorted when the VIC hit resonance pulsing with 12 volts.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 16:47:46 pm
jolt what wave form were you sending in

and how much current did the vic draw.

was it hooked to a wfc?
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 16:59:41 pm
it did not short out easily.....it shorted out when i applied over 150 volts amplitude at the primary.....jolt's shorted out instantly.

yeah, my chokes shorted when the VIC hit resonance pulsing with 12 volts.

So there you have it Kinesis , it shorts out .
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 04, 2009, 17:02:34 pm
I was sending 12 volt square 50% duty and yes I had it connect to a cell.

I had the scope probe sitting right under the VIC and it picked up a perfect sive wave like RF. then the VIC started to make the typical noise when you have arcing. and the sine wave got distorted. there was never any gas produced.

Jolt
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 18:17:02 pm
agh alright....now that i have realized the coil was connected magnetically against the bifilar this might be why there was no "pumping" action against a load......the magnetic field from the secondary was canceling out the bifilar's magnetic field.

also the coil itself hits audible harmoonics around 40-60khz depending on the load it is attached too....but there is a waveform bounce inside it.......this happened when it was connected incorrectly.

i have no time today to mess with the coil.....but tonight i should have plenty of free time.

this might work!!!!!

today could be the day

i find myself far too optimistic.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 18:26:53 pm
agh alright....now that i have realized the coil was connected magnetically against the bifilar this might be why there was no "pumping" action against a load......the magnetic field from the secondary was canceling out the bifilar's magnetic field.

also the coil itself hits audible harmoonics around 40-60khz depending on the load it is attached too....but there is a waveform bounce inside it.......this happened when it was connected incorrectly.

i have no time today to mess with the coil.....but tonight i should have plenty of free time.

this might work!!!!!

today could be the day

i find myself far too optimistic.

why kinesis ?? Are you saying what I think you are saying ? Are you imcompetent to this point ?

All coils  must be in clockwise . there is no rogue coil setup thats clockwise while others are not , or vice versa ...

+clockwise array of coils- cell
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2009, 23:14:03 pm
you don't even know the difference between counter and clock wise or it's effects on transformer efficiency so hush hush and run along.

first off john winds his coils all with the same orientation......so it is either all North oriented towards the cell or south oriented towards the cell.

in john's windings his outputs can be vice versa......but in this case the diode is the only thing that has to be moved and the input nad output have to be switched in order to switch magnetic orientation.

so dankie tell me the difference if NORTH oriented coil windings go into the cell rather then SOUTH oriented windings going into the cell...

let's see how competent you are.

you don't even know the laws of magnetics yet.....or let alone how you are going to wind your acclaimed chokes.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 06, 2009, 01:18:34 am
You optimistic ?

You have basicly been doing this like a bufoon , everything I said you ignored , every proposition you do otherwise ,  and accidents and still you defy me...

Just quit reporting your findings for a while will ya ... Its painful for me to watch this stuff .
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 06, 2009, 02:04:23 am
thank you for avoiding my question to prove your lack of education and understanding.

you have never even wound one transformer in your entire life.

nor do you have anything to show.

keep sitting on the side lines and trying to act like your apart of the team.

i enjoy every absurd comment you make.

:)

Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 09, 2009, 17:06:12 pm
From Stan's favorite dictionary.
Title: Re: Impedance Matching
Post by: Login to see usernames on May 05, 2016, 11:23:55 am
peak a boo

As frequency goes up, inductive reactance goes up and capacitive reactance goes down.