Author Topic: Retry N1001  (Read 6270 times)

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matching impedance
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2018, 12:31:41 pm »
matching impedance is how antenas are tuned to transmit the power it receives without having reflections

inductors and capacitors can be used as matching impedance to make just the same thing on water capacitor

water capacitor however will have a reflection because its a capacitor not an antena

well lets back to impedance matching

to impedance match you need

define frequency ex 5khz

define the load impedance (dc impedance of the load for ex)

find and inductor and a capacitor that has this reactance at this frequency

put them in series with input transformer and a full wave bridge rectifier with water as dc load and apply the power to the resonant circuit

at the matched condition meyer waveform will appear ... Q factor will be 1 so no overheat of the coils meaning maximum power can be applied into it

this is the simplest it can get

L=XL/(f*2*PI)
C=(f*2*Pi)/Xc
Zo=sqrt(L/C)




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    • water structure and science
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2018, 23:36:44 pm »
i believe you want to read this paper entirely

450kv in a watercapacitor and no bubbles...
Bang....Meyers patents are blown away

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2018, 04:11:05 am »
i believe you want to read this paper entirely

450kv in a watercapacitor and no bubbles...
Bang....Meyers patents are blown away

in my way of view not necessaryly but it tells us a very different story about how the water capacitor work!

i found out that when meyer mention in the patent the resonant charging choke having 100turns he was actually meaning it

i found that the calculated cell is around 100pf capacitance maybe a little lower

in my records i got some readings of cell capacitance over 2000ohms using pump and filter recirculating the water in the big cell with 11 electrodes

this mean that if i want it to get 40kv pulse into it i need to give 20amps to it somehow

the cell will be charged with the same voltage as the pulse forming network that is a coil in parallel with it

the lie in the patent is about the 36awg secondary wire because we need to get amps into it otherwise the timescale is very slowwww

in those documents it became clear to me that if we want to really make a damage to water we need to discharge it with high voltage pulse very sharp to get the ions balistical collision

so say you get 100 turns in sequence... if the wire wistand up to 1kv per turn it could reach 100kv without discharge in itself 

lets say with 100 turns is possible to reach 20kv with safe

with 250uh and a repetition rate of 10khz with 50v as charging input source

the circuit will discharge 10k 50miliJoules pulses to water and also charge water to 50v during the rest of the step for example makes

50v / 2000 Ohms =  25 ma

it would be the leakage current on water for example while the inductor will act as a short circuit and within 100us will rise the current up to 20amps

the input circuit will need to collapse to get the voltage real that high

when the switch is open the current will change direction at the secondary and the diode wont let the choke to see the transformer as a nice small impedance so it will develop real high voltage as the secondary will follow it

the main idea is to use both sides of the coin

when we apply power to a flyback transformer it will deliver the power only during the discharge cycle

in meyer charging choke he charge them during the pulse on and when the pulse interrupt the secondary and choke works side by side to discharge into water the energy

i believe is necessary in this case to use a bunch of tvs diodes in parallel and a high voltage high amperage diode together maybe up to 10 to handle 40amps and a good high voltage and amperage diode too to split the job

the tvs will only start conduct when the voltage of the secondary collapse is higher than its value in the closed circuit between the secondary and choke (in parallel with the cell (both after the diodes) )

the idea is to use the secondary energy to form the high voltage pulse...

the chokes must handle the amperage

i believe 14awg would be good start

also for the secondary

the chokes may be air core maybe a good idea to make a toroidal resin coil former without core! or with powerder iron core

ferrite core will not discharge as fast as needed for this applications

air core is the best choice toroidal even better

so for the input transformer is ok to use ferrite as it will reduce the number of required turns the input frequency ex 10khz is a good starting point as is easy to design a transformer for this operation

but is probably nicer to use maybe two transformer or complete two choke systems to have continuous pulse during pulse off

multiphasing like biphasic for example

triphase is possible too and multiple phase

so lets say we pulse it with 12v and have a step up of 4 it gives 48v 20amps so20  times 4 is 80 amps so the primaries will be seeing 80 amps during the charge time as the charge cycle is linear increasing and only half cycle the average will be less than 40 however the peak is 80 just before turning it off .. this makes clear that making the primary part of the pulsing circuit as well is a hell of a good idea if used wisely

its certainly better than waste it on the primary side

is possible to wire the primary in series with the secondary in boost mode

this reduce the need of the secondary to make the all conduction of the amps thru the core who knows

of course is possible to use regenerative feedback and may be used for help protecting the switch but ideally the power we want in the water not burning components or heating them elsewhere in the circuit

im sure that those patents have lots of inconsistencies on purpose as many as possible  i read too many and after all he was patenting something he already new was already patented and he only improoved it but could not patent the numbers again so he mention all the patents he improved

i would like to be in more confort situation to make this tests but i´m with no money at all and currently without water pump on my filter

i´m working hard to get finances better so i can have some peace to work on it







 



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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2018, 20:16:56 pm »
at the drawing 6b of this patent https://patents.google.com/patent/US5149407A/en

there is no diode so the transformer apear to be in parallel with the cell

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2018, 20:56:49 pm »
Hello Fabio.

Let me express my opinion about all of that:

We have to stick to the things that are for real, look to the pictures of the estate.
The diode is right there.

Do you have MULTISIM on your  computer?

I will like to challenge you and everyone here who wants to, to show a simulation of the VIC  achieving high KV on both coils but without the cell being the capacitor and only the 78.54 ohms...

Rules that you must do on that:

- 1:5 transformer with input up to 12v
- 2 coils
- 1 diode

I experienced a "special" condition where there is a resonnant rising on both coils up to some KV.
I was able to find and predict this situation.

If people are expecting to get high voltages on the cell without extreme current flow they dont know for real what ohms law is.

In my opinion and after all the experiments I have done, the will be a +B and -B voltages who may do the work. I was not able to get it up from 1KV without the coils started to burn.
High voltages will be present on both coil terminals.


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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2018, 21:12:26 pm »


If you got this working on multisim and understand what is happening here you could be at something new that could be (or not) part of the answer.
I dont know if it is possible to achieve that voltages on real life but it was taken from a similar experiment i had done some months ago.

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #46 on: June 16, 2018, 21:18:46 pm »
This gave me more air to breathe.

Now I am  buying new equipment for my lab, I bought a new digital oscilloscope at a good price with a built in function generator, and next step is to get a non evasive current probe, high voltage probe and I am building an isolation device for the scope inputs.

Then I will test it again.

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #47 on: June 17, 2018, 13:09:24 pm »
yes man i worked hard at it on the computer simulating but as you already said to get 1kv into water you need to provide the amps according with the resistance it have

i constructed a cell with a filter and pump that keep filtering the water the water get up to and beyond 2kohm resistance

is indeed possible to get high voltage across the coils if the load is low but this high voltage is not on water but only at the coil ...

now we know  a coil will fight any change in current so if its charged to 20amps it does not mather how small or big it is it will give 40kv pulse to the 2kohm load

i worked a lot with that testing and saw any effect i could measure on water

so i went to the meaning of the words and there is it

resonant charging choke

now if you know the science and filter the parts meyer used to complicate the things and study a little all the patents he mention you see a connection point

two patents he mention is the tay he han and the other is the horvaths

so what

horvath clearly stated that his process used a depolarization púlse

tay he han used high voltage but never show any of the ckt

meyer says that the electrons will momentarily get distorted and weakening the water bound