Author Topic: Retry N1001  (Read 4444 times)

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new pll modular design
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2018, 09:10:32 am »
i decided i will create a modular design for the pll, this way it will be easy to get it done really fast and get it very organized

the pll board will have the pll chip and the feedback input and signal input only it will have an output chip too ir4427 or such

it will have a copper shield into the board covering the chip and components

i will try to use the best pll i have that is very high frequency one is 5v

outside this shield its going to be the freq dividers and the other connections

i will use a dual layer board so under the shield there will be some holes for the connections that need to get signals from outside for example.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:48:33 am by sebosfato »

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2018, 10:09:50 am »
i found is possible to change the cristal frequency by adjusting it or manipulate the frequency with external components like a variable inductor.. this will give a tremendous precision on the frequency and it can be used with the pll too so interfacing will be easy

also there are cristals to work from 1khz up hundreds of megahertz

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2018, 14:17:17 pm »
This is the ckt i Will do

the L3 coil is responsible to give a low impedance during the pulse doubling time... working as a secondary dumping the power flowing tru L2 straight back into the power source
the pulse doubling is totally dependent on this! because otherwise the secondary work as a very high inductance during the discharge of the chokes energy not allowing the pulse to reach water it stop on the high resistance...

a diode in parallel with the primary would take the funtion of L3 but would also be a way to have minimum impedance as possible during off time
the resistor in parallel with L1 in meyer ckt is there for this to equilibrate the primary impedance when the secondary work as a part of the circuit during pulse off .. in my ckt i will probably add it too but i guess this arrange will not necessarily need it because of L3 function

L3 it also to clamp the voltage during the collapse

another function i gave to L3 is to provide the feedback for pin 3 of the pll this will allow the pll to sync in phase with whatever signal at 90 from it

the ratio between L1/L3 gives a multiplication factor so Vsecondary is = Vin * (L3/L1) *(L2/L1)   if the primary is in series Vout=Vin * (L3/L1) *(L2/L1) + Vin

the multiplication only occurs at the collapse of the field..


 
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 18:09:36 pm by sebosfato »

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    • water structure and science
Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2018, 16:55:25 pm »
Allright....
Give it a go!

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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2018, 18:11:31 pm »
i´m going to

i´m first deciding what i will do and how making some drawings and will take some hours to arrange the tests..

the ckt will take more time as i need to go getting some components and i dont have any mony but i will give it a try with what i have here



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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2018, 22:38:37 pm »
i think i found  how to get the resonance on the pll direct with the current signal that must be 90degrees off from the voltage input

when the current reach zero it switch off basically

 so to do that maybe we could add a simple current transformer and directly send this signal to pin14 feedback

phase comparator of the pll is very sensitive i believe meyer may have used the opamp to get the signal cleaner and stable so it going to be necessary too...

it appears to me that meyer went to the simple stupid way and tried to reduce much components as possible by improving the design on the transformer and ckt..

meyer design apear to me as if he simplified it as much as possible but the feedback coil as it is makes absolute no sense to me

i tried in the past and i was remembering that i had to use a coil in series with the feedback coil that was on the core to get the current signal 90 off and this way resonance came out nicely with capacitors also work but was not so good as with inductor

i think i was not geting the right signal into the pin 3 of the pll and because i was not geting on the transfomer side ,, and instead on the circuit part





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Re: Retry N1001
« Reply #14 on: May 19, 2018, 11:19:50 am »
i had an idea about multipacting and it gave me another idea...

i was thinking how could we detect somehow the multipacting frequency to be able to tune into it ... and basically this frequency will be dependent on the voltage applied, distance, mass of the atoms and the drag resistance ... there are many variables,,, but one thing that happen when the atoms hit the plate that is that it may emit electromagnetic energy somehow that we can possibly detect! this way is possibly easy to make the atoms lose the electrons for good.. or another way to detect is when current change because when the atoms hit the electrodes it will liberate electrons with it

for example take the oxygen atom if its neutral it will have the form of O2 it can be ionized once and still remain a diatomic molecule
however as i explained elsewhere a neutral atom is attracted to an electrode by electronic polarization so it is attracted to the closest electrode possible... so a neutral atom close to positive electrode will be attracted to it and if the voltage is high enough it will be able to strip one electron from the molecule turning it into a positive ion when this ion is directed toward the other electrode the "negative" one its going to strike it with even greater energy that will cause the atoms to lose electrons and liberate further electrons from the electrode but this electrons is going to be atracted to the positive side while the atoms positively charged will remain at the electrode surface until it get electrons out of it 

i think meyer double choke system raise the potential of both electrodes in such way as to get the atoms to hit two electrodes being at high voltage positive potential and this causes the atoms to be striped off from the electrons when bouncing between this two electrodes
because of image charges when you have two electrodes charged with same polarity it will present zero voltage inside first because the electric field cancel out inside! this is important when you not using a tube for example but in the cilinder case it will not cancel
and this is what meyer is doing

the energy aquired by the atoms by the electric field must be enough to ionize it when it hit the electrode surface..

he even wrote the equation

so for this we need a double system like two secondary coils making high voltage pulses charging the inside and outside electrodes and perhaps have a external circuit for the electrons to flow when they hit the electrodes

the magic must be than to eject those electrons from the circuit such that it dont need to pass thru the high voltage coils because it would consume lots of power...

another thing to notice is that the water cell had the output ofgases on the middle of the inner electrode



« Last Edit: May 19, 2018, 13:40:05 pm by sebosfato »

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ECC
« Reply #15 on: May 19, 2018, 15:43:34 pm »
i think im reaching the conclusion that the main idea of meyer design is to indeed generate the hydrogen in the same method or similar to what is done with the ecc and for that reason is necessary to make a complicated analysis of what happen when and how or why..

i found out that if we can charge the water bath capacitance fast enough such it maintain it for a while when current is not flowing or is stable the current will have a slight change when the atoms cross the gap and reach the other electrode...  if the charging event is just fast enough and we can mantain the charge and look for a current peak we should find it

this will tell us exactly the transit time for the pulse configuration used...

we just need to ask the right questions meyer says

so here it goes how do we get track of a very small change in current when current is already changing ?

if the change is in the opposite direction we can have a chance  to look at it right?

my idea is to monitor the current and get track of any change like that and in my analysis its going to be used into pin 3 of pll as its a positive edge triger phase comparator

coming back to the ecc

i believe to get a diferent level exitation the ecc pulses must have increase voltage programaticaly withing the pulses so every pulse has a diferent voltage level which must be programed accordingly so is not a easy task

to do that we need a voltage source for each pulse and a system to connect each voltage to the primary individualy such to vary the pulse voltage

or maybe with microcontroler is possibly to do it digitaly seting the level of the current with bipolar transistor for each pulse and this really makes a lot of sense to me!

so we need a esp32 because it has analog output than we need to create an interface signal to control the bipolar transitor with it

we can than simply use the program to set each pulse voltage easily and independently by setting a counter and specify a voltage level for each pulse!!!!!! 

it would be important to create a section here in the forum if it does not exist for this microcontrolers and we must get more activeabout it
this is what is going to improve our abilities to get measurements we never took before