Author Topic: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........  (Read 8656 times)

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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #96 on: June 06, 2018, 16:04:41 pm »
Hello mr

I have never tried the ecc after i have learned some physics... maybe now its just time as its much clearer to me

yesterday i wrote here but it went wrong on server

when we charge the water say positively it will give electrons to the high voltage we are applying and those electrons will go to ground if we dont allow them to go back to water (one wire)

the higher is the voltage and the gas flow the greater will be the high voltage current or ionization current so is best to have voltage levels and frequency for each ionization step

the ionization may be achieved by high voltage discharge on water and its electron extraction depends on the high voltage potential the cell is referent to ground

another way i see it happening is the electron extraction circuit being a kind of circuit that boils off electrons from the filament passing thru a grounded tube such that the electrons cannot make thru the circuit so ionizing but not consuming as much as power

basically it will form something like a tube diode so electrons will go one way but wont return



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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #97 on: June 06, 2018, 16:08:57 pm »
its not an easy task since the current must be enough to boil the electrons out


the way xray tubes do is to use chokes or a transformer for the filament current

so basically we need some current to flow

we need that when the current is passing thru the filament it get repelled by it!

we need high voltage positive on cell bath side to take electrons out of it

and at the same time is necessary to revert the polarity to pull electrons out of the filament


it requires a transformer secondary wired to a diode in series with this diode will be the amp consuming device ( a tube diode possibly with a small capacitor in parallel with it ) after it go the cell anode and after the cell a coil that close the circuit with the secondary

at this circuit point i added a capacitor and a diode connected to ground to allow the cell potential to be positive referent to ground during the pulse but when the voltage reverses the capacitor will allow enough current to just revert the polarity of the cell and amp consuming device to boil electrons out of it more easily when the polarity of the cell is negative it will repel electrons allowing to take them out of it



« Last Edit: June 06, 2018, 17:56:12 pm by sebosfato »

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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #98 on: June 06, 2018, 18:00:38 pm »
Hi Fabio,

I updated the servcr , yesterday. The forum software is also updated... Took me some hours in totall.
It seems to work fine now.

cheers

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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #99 on: June 06, 2018, 18:02:25 pm »
The question is: Does the EEC bring something. If it does, what does it bring.
Can i measure or see it?


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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #100 on: June 07, 2018, 17:50:15 pm »
The question is: Does the EEC bring something. If it does, what does it bring.
Can i measure or see it?

It appear to me that what it bring from the electronic point of view is a current in the high voltage line (referenced to ground) ... this current can be measured and compared with a test current of the neutralization of the gas

for example if we hold the cell at 40kv dc using one transformer we add a ammeter to this transformer connection to ground

on the gas output we add a metal tube to allow the gas pass thru it and discharge its charge on it ... if we ground this tube and add other ammeter there is possible to evaluate if there is ionized gas output and its polarity

the greater is the gas production the greater should be the current as it will be bringing charge with it as its bubbles  breaks water surface tension

this is the first step to get on the eec

the next step would be to improove this ionization current but first we need to get any current to start with to know that we are on the right way

is important to have the amp metters that read rms values not peak otherwise wont be a good reading

also it would be great to connect to the oscilloscope and compare the waveforms since the gas ionization output theoretically will look more like dc while the trasnformer will have a pulsing caracteristics

than is possible to add a resistor on the gas side and see what voltage is possible to develop in it with such a discharge

for example we add a resistor of 10kohm if the current was 1ma it should result in 10v on the resistor

at a certain higher resistor value it wont be able to discharge the gas fully or even partially


the only way i see possible to determine the gas quality improvement would be a setup where the gas can be directed to a torch and to heat some water cup over it while measuring the temperature rise of the water relative to time it will be possible to determine weather the ionization is helping or not improve to some extent the gas quality




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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #101 on: June 07, 2018, 18:03:33 pm »
the temperature rising setup can be arranged with a nodemcu esp8266 or esp32 using a db18s20 temperature sensor and simple program for display it on a web interface

also the ammeters and other stuf can be build around those chips too allowing to display all info on the same place

in this case for the ecc i would go for having a ammeter for the hv

one ammeter  for the ionization current

a voltage metter for the gas current

the temperature rise metter

is already 4 meters with only a 2 dollar chip

the greatest problem is the torch and steady gas production

in my mere opinion we could use a simple full wave bridge design with low voltage to achieve the gas output required for testing ... must be isolated and properly protected as we are applying high voltage from elsewhere

the best way to do it is using a pair of mutual chokes and some capacitors at the input sides of the chokes connected to ground this is where one ammeter goes

the high voltage is to be applied straight to the cell and ground 


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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #102 on: June 07, 2018, 19:32:41 pm »
i had a setup that were simply a pair of concentric tubes that were into a acrylic cup having a copper foil on the outside of the acrylic cup

than i had if i remember well a high voltage coil connected to the foil and on the other side i had two diodes one connected to the inner electrode and the other to the outer

the result was bubbles of gas being generated that when arrived the surface of water it was clearly moved toward the cup sides.... meaning it was indeed charged,,,

another way that worked was to have one diode connected to the central electrode and a coil conneted from the foil to the outer electrode

basically this circuit alowed to use the acrylic as a capacitor being the water the other side of the capacitor

the water was very pure on this tests so the gas output was very small but clearly charged


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Re: 6watts and 8 liters HHO per minute...........
« Reply #103 on: June 07, 2018, 19:43:10 pm »
today i would improve this setup with new knowledge i have

i would sand paper the outside of the acrylic cup and add a coat of pencil graphite this allow for increasing 3 fold the capacitance...

the acrylic must be as thin as possible.. would be even better polycarbonate or polipropilene PP

even glass should work and probably would be thinner and more heat resistant in case of some arching .,.. i would not skip the sanding paper part with the glass either

a becker could work very well

is necessary to understand the properties of the glass material as some will be low in resistance

something like 10cm diameter should work nice

i think the purer is the water the higher will be the chance to get it ionized as its splited  but i can be wrong

we know that if we place one test charge inside a conductor it will necessaryly be attracted to the conductor and goes toward it unless its in a equilibrium situation

for example if we charge the inside of the water bath positive the inner wall of the bath capacitor (glass) will be positive so it would reppel positive charges it would attract only if the charges were negative... but as the water is somewhat a conductor the positive charges wont be able to stay still too...