Author Topic: Imagine the Physics  (Read 2734 times)

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Imagine the Physics
« on: January 31, 2012, 18:28:37 pm »
I want to create a a discussion here where we try to imagine every aspect of the inter-atomic, inter-molecular, forces, energies, vibrations. I want to imagine the molecules twisting and turning, being pulled and distorting their own electric fields, the electrons spinning around and being passed from molecule to ion.

I want to figure out what is in the water, what is in the stainless steel, how the charges are transported, how fast the ions move, how fast the electrons move, what are the numbers. How many atoms between the plates in a 1/16" gap. what is the electric field like at the surface of the plates. What kind of crystal clusters do the water molecules form, what is the thermal energy that fights the alignment of the water with the electric field, when you have a strong electric field across the water, how many molecules actually line up.

What is the parts per million of the contaminates, what is the pH of the water and how does it change during the process. What effect does the silicon and other components of the stainless steel alloy have on the process. What is the current density on the plates when the cell is charged up. What stops the electrons from crossing the water gap. When two hydrogen atoms connect and become a gas, what is going on when they expand 1840 times, what does that look like in a cluster of atoms, how does that change the local electric fields of near by atoms, how does that change the vibrations between the molecules.

What is auto ionization of water, how many bonds are broken and ions are they in normal equilibrium, what makes this happen, how does the applied electric field make this equilibrium shift. When you break the bonds are photons released into the other molecules, what kind of energy can we work with that doesn't cause the water to simple heat up. What does the magnetic field of the electron have to do with the strength of the bond, how does it's spin up and spin down characteristics effect the bonds. What is the shape of the water molecule and how does it flex and bend when it vibrates, what are the limits of these vibrations, how does sound travel through the water, how does light travel through the water.

And so on...


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Re: Imagine the Physics
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2012, 22:05:55 pm »
When atomic orbitals interact, the resulting molecular orbital can be of three types: bonding, antibonding, or nonbonding. (Molecular orbital (MO)).

Bonding MOs:

    * Bonding interactions between atomic orbitals are constructive (in-phase) interactions.
    * Bonding MOs are lower in energy than the atomic orbitals that combine to produce them.

Antibonding MOs:

    * Antibonding interactions between atomic orbitals are destructive (out-of-phase) interactions.
    * Antibonding MOs are higher in energy than the atomic orbitals that combine to produce them.

Nonbonding MOs:

    * Nonbonding MOs are the result of no interaction between atomic orbitals because of lack of compatible symmetries.
    * Nonbonding MOs will have the same energy as the atomic orbitals of one of the atoms in the molecule.

As a simple MO example consider the hydrogen molecule, H2 (see molecular orbital diagram), with the two atoms labelled H' and H". The lowest-energy atomic orbitals, 1s' and 1s", do not transform according to the symmetries of the molecule. However, the following symmetry adapted atomic orbitals do:
1s' - 1s"    Antisymmetric combination: negated by reflection, unchanged by other operations
1s' + 1s"    Symmetric combination: unchanged by all symmetry operations

The symmetric combination (called a bonding orbital) is lower in energy than the basis orbitals, and the antisymmetric combination (called an antibonding orbital) is higher. Because the H2 molecule has two electrons, they can both go in the bonding orbital, making the system lower in energy (and, hence, more stable) than two free hydrogen atoms. This is called a covalent bond. The bond order is equal to the number of bonding electrons minus the number of antibonding electrons, divided by 2. In this example, there are 2 electrons in the bonding orbital and none in the antibonding orbital; the bond order is 1, and there is a single bond between the two hydrogen atoms.

The bond order, or number of bonds, of a molecule can be determined by combining the number of electrons in bonding and antibonding molecular orbitals as follows:

Bond order = 0.5*[(number of electrons in bonding orbitals) - (number of electrons in antibonding orbitals)]

The smallest molecule, hydrogen gas exists as dihydrogen (H-H) with a single covalent bond between two hydrogen atoms. As each hydrogen atom has a single 1s atomic orbital for its electron, the bond forms by overlap of these two atomic orbitals. In figure 1 the two atomic orbitals are depicted on the left and on the right. The vertical axis always represents the orbital energies. Each atomic orbital is singly occupied with an up or down arrow representing an electron.

Application of MO theory for dihydrogen results in having both electrons in the bonding MO with electron configuration 1σg2. The bond order for dihydrogen is (2-0)/2 = 1. The photoelectron spectrum of dihydrogen shows a single set of multiplets between 16 and 18 eV (electron volts).[9]

The dihydrogen MO diagram helps explain how a bond breaks. When applying energy to dihydrogen, a molecular electronic transition takes place when one electron in the bonding MO is promoted to the antibonding MO. The result is that there is no longer a net gain in energy.

MO treatment of dioxygen  is different from that of the previous diatomic molecules because the pσ MO is now lower in energy than the 2π orbitals. This is attributed to interaction between the 2s MO and the 2pz MO.[11] Distributing 8 electrons over 6 molecular orbitals leaves the final two electrons as a degenerate pair in the 2pπ* antibonding orbitals resulting in a bond order of 2. When these unpaired electrons have the same spin, this type of dioxygen called triplet oxygen is a paramagnetic diradical. When both HOMO electrons pair up with opposite spins in one orbital, the other oxygen type is called singlet oxygen.

Water (H2O) is a bent molecule (105°) with C2v molecular symmetry. The oxygen atomic orbitals are labeled according to their symmetry as a1 for the 2s2 orbital and b2, a1 and b2 for 4 electrons in the 2p orbital. The two hydrogen 1s orbitals are premixed to form a A1 (bonding) and B2 (antibonding) MO.

C2v    | E    | C2   | σv(xz)  | σv'(yz) |       |
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A1    | 1    | 1     | 1          | 1         | z    | x2, y2, z2
-----------------------------------------------------------------
A2    | 1    | 1     | −1        | −1        | Rz    | xy
-----------------------------------------------------------------
B1    | 1    | −1     | 1          | −1       | x, Ry    | xz
-----------------------------------------------------------------
B2    | 1    | −1     | −1        |1        | y, Rx    | yz
-----------------------------------------------------------------

Mixing takes place between same-symmetry orbitals of comparable energy resulting a new set of MO's for water. The lowest-energy MO, 1a1 resembles the oxygen 2s AO with some mixing with the hydrogen A1 AO. Next is the 1b1 MO resulting from mixing of the oxygen b1 AO and the hydrogen B1 AO followed by the 2a1 MO created by mixing the a1 orbitals. Both MO's form the oxygen to hydrogen sigma bonds. The oxygen b2 AO (the p-orbital perpendicular to the molecular plane) alone forms the 1b2  MO is it is unable to mix. This MO is nonbonding. In agreement with this description the photoelectron spectrum for water shows two broad peaks for the 1b2 MO (18.5 eV) and the 2a1 MO (14.5 eV) and a sharp peak for the nonbonding 1b1 MO at 12.5 eV. This MO treatment of water differs from the orbital hybridisation  picture because now the oxygen atom has just one lone pair instead of two. In this sense, water does not have two equivalent lone electron pairs resembling rabbit ears.

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Re: Imagine the Physics
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2012, 22:39:02 pm »
Here are some related images from Puharich's research showing the spin-spin of the Water molecule.



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Re: Imagine the Physics
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2012, 09:57:53 am »
Hi Donald, I wanted to reply sooner, but, I have been busy. Great topics, I just don't know how to add to the discussion quite yet. I wanted to bump this thread and get back to it soon. Any other thoughts?

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Re: Imagine the Physics
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2012, 03:27:20 am »

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Re: Imagine the Physics
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2012, 01:07:34 am »
Hydrogen is the lightest element in the known universe. Even in liquid form, hydrogen's volumetric density is much, much less than gasoline vapor. So, even if it were true that Stan Meyer had a secret method for converting water to gases with lower power and greater speed than normal electrolysis, then he would have still been plagued by the low mass of hydrogen. The combustion of either HHO or even the diatomic forms of hydrogen and oxygen, will result in a much less energy conversion compared to gasoline. Anyone who has had the luxury of working with hydrogen as a fuel for motors and engines designed for gasoline will tell you, "it doesn't work well".

Ever heard of "nascent" hydrogen? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nascent_hydrogen

Quote
Atomic hydrogen (or nascent hydrogen)[3] is the species denoted by H (atomic), contrasted with dihydrogen, the usual 'hydrogen' (H2) commonly involved in chemical reactions. It is claimed to exist transiently but long enough to effect chemical reactions. According to one claim, nascent hydrogen is generated in situ usually by the reaction of zinc with an acid, aluminium (Devarda's alloy) with sodium hydroxide, or by electrolysis at the cathode.[citation needed] Being monoatomic, H atoms are much more reactive and thus a much more effective reducing agent than ordinary diatomic H2, but again the key question is whether H atoms exist in any chemically meaningful way under the conditions claimed. The concept is more popular in engineering and in older literature on catalysis.[citation needed] Atomic hydrogen is made of individual hydrogen atoms which are not bound together like ordinary hydrogen into molecules.

Quote
It takes 4.476 eV to disassociate ordinary H2 hydrogen molecules. When they recombine, they liberate this energy. An electric arc or ultraviolet photon can generate atomic hydrogen.

Atomic hydrogen can be formed under vacuum at temperatures high enough (> 2000 K)[citation needed] to thermally dissociate the molecule, or equivalent excitation in an electric discharge. Also, electromagnetic radiation above about 11 eV[citation needed] can be absorbed by H2 and lead to its dissociation.

Oxygen also can be in nascent form and is much more reactive. So, it would seem through research and experimentation, lower masses of the respective gases creates an increase in reaction giving us more heat and light. And the more mass(electrons) we can take from the atoms, the more reactive the the combustion will be.

It takes a fraction of the energy to process the gases compared to the energy it takes to split water. If we have the ability to increase the energy output of the reactions, then we have basically taken away the need for a more efficient water to gases conversion. Not that it matters how much we can make anyway.

Am I too off topic, or should I continue?