Author Topic: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values  (Read 20151 times)

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My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« on: November 20, 2011, 06:33:23 am »
Recently I've been thinking about the L1 and L2 choke different values. I have come to a 2nd theory on why Stan made the L1 choke a larger value than the L2 choke. Ideally the chokes would be of equal value, but realistically this is not so. The reason i think the choke were made of different values is due to the voltage drop across the blocking diode. Typically you will have a voltage drop across a diode of 0.25v - 1.5v depending on the type. The MUR1550 has a voltage drop of around 1.5v. So this voltage drop would cause a lower voltage output of the L1 choke at resonance and therefore the L1 chokes voltage wouldn't be the same amplitude as the L2 voltage. So Stan had to make the L1 choke bigger in value to compensate for this voltage difference and make them equal in amplitude.
Someone suggest to balance the circuit by placing a 2nd diode between the secondary and the L2 choke, but this wouldn't work because the diode on the negative side wouldn't allow the positive voltage cycle from the negative side to pass to the cell. I have tested this and it screws up the sine wave signal at resonance.

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Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 07:25:05 am »
Tony,

According to my calculations, stan might have used different kinds of systems.

Nothing makes more sense to me than use frequencies up to and beyond 200khz...

The high frequency allow the Quality Factor of water capacitor to be greater than one allowing resonace, so first requirement for resonance to exist match.

This is achieved by lowering the inductance. The higher the frequency the lower is the capacitance reactance. The lower the reactance, more precisely you get a Zseries close to zero at resonance (perfect cancellation). As Z approach zero line Current and resonant voltage approach infinity as circuit components allow it to happen.

The coil is tunable due to the need of actually tune the circuit to a fixed frequency source. The PLL simply reduces this critical point, and allow for perfect balance of potential, so allow the tuned choke to have further functions.   

An alternator is great Vt source of low z... high short cut current, which is what maters in the end. 

The dealership shows the chokes has 18 turns like... The rest is *  misleading info.

We need to find the triple phase boundary of the water fuel cell.
« Last Edit: November 20, 2011, 08:19:33 am by sebosfato »

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Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 08:19:11 am »
Considering the VIC circuit as a series circuit the sums of the voltage drops across each component will be the total voltage, so I tend to wonder if a 1.5V difference would change it that much. Then there's all of Stan's talk about the chokes being bifilar wound of equal length....

I would not rule out the possibility, what your saying does make sense in the fact that it's important to have an equal voltage between turns in a HV transformer to help prevent dielectric breakdown of the coils. But at the same time if you take a 1.5V difference across the 3,000 turn choke you get a very small voltage difference between turns of 500uV...


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Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 15:24:16 pm »
Actually at resonance voltage across components are = I*XL or I*-XC and its sums equal zero cause one is opposite to the other

If you apply 1volt into a Z of 1mili ohm you get 1000 amps  1000watts

Now if your XL is 10ohms you get 10 kvolts across circuit components... _XL = 2*PI*f*L    10MW

Only the sum of the imaginary sides cancel out... remaining on the real series resistance the applied Vt...

If you input energy in parallel you can only get the high amp recirculating after many many cycles...

How to let voltage take over in a dead short circuit condition? Resonance

When you study the mechanism of ionic conduction you see that the atoms goes back and forth exchanging (gaining and loosing) electrons at the electrodes at a certain speed for a given applied dc.

so the greater the frequency the greater the amps get restricted anyway. However at a certain applied voltage frequency, the atoms (hydrogen) we need to focus on the lighter cause its speed is much higher, will not be able to exchange charges with the electrode, cause it changed polarity at the exact moment the atoms arrived so reversing the atoms speed in the opposite direction.

So we need a fixed voltage and frequency mapping of a given WFC (current as function of frequency), and around that frequency found as a strange current (low) condition, a variable voltage at a fixed frequency...and plot the current again as function now of voltage. This graphs will let us understand more about the process.

So the right modulation of voltage with respect to the right modulation in the frequency would give aways a high Quality factor in the WFC capacitor.


 

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Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2011, 16:11:55 pm »
Tony and everyone else,

When I took the VIC coil readings, I only measured one coil pack.To get those measured reading of mine,
I had to take apart the coils.They were all soldered together.Now I didn't even want to do one let alone several of them.
So what I'm trying to tell everyone here is to not make too much of just one set of coil readings to mean that
they were all the same for every VIC coil set. As you can see by all of the photo's I took,all of these coils were
hand wrapped.I seen Stans crude coil winder there and it was just a small motor turning the coils and the wire was
feed by hand.

So knowing this,my best guess is that they were meant to be the same size.Because they were hand wound,
and LCR meters weren't availible back then, it was just close enough.So I make mine with the same number
 of turns like Stan probably did.When winding coils this way,you can end up with differnt readings from one coil to another.

That's why I'm now making my own CNC coil winder.I should be ready to do a test run today.It took me most of the day
yesterday to get the Gcoil code set up on my system to count properly.
Don

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Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2011, 20:17:51 pm »
Yea Don I can see what you are saying there. The coils values can vary quite a bit. From testing that I've done, it looks like the main resonance takes place between the L1 coil and the cell. The L2 coil will act as a resistance to current while having virtually no voltage drop across it like a resistor would and while at the same time increasing the voltage applied to it and making the voltage 180 degrees out of phase from the L1 coil. Do you agree with me on this?

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Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2011, 20:22:25 pm »
Another thing that brings me to this conclusion is that in Stan's papers he shows the formula for calculating the resonant frequency and only includes the L1 coil and the cell. Also at resonance XL=XC which will give you a resistance close to zero and that would allow current to be very high, but the L2 chokes XL along with the magnetic coupling would provide an impedance to restrict the high current flow.

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Re: My 2nd Theory on VIC Chokes of different values
« Reply #7 on: November 20, 2011, 21:25:16 pm »
If you have something increasing the Z value is pointless to call it resonant charging choke. What stan say is that he restrict the amps and allow voltage to take over in a dead short condition.

A series circuit is a dead short condition.

If you short circuit a battery you have internal resistance that limits the current to a certain value.

Similarly stan reminds you secondary resistive wire... The source has an impedance that must be taken into account.

to have an ideal voltage source, many batteries in parallel would fit. Alternator... anything with high short current ability.

The bifilar choke is needed to act as a switch, my best guess... This way he uses the magnetic energy derived from the resonant line current into forming the other pulse by letting the field to collapse just after the total discharge of the wfc when current is a maximun. As diodes don't allow the current to change direction the other choke will catch the field and recharge the capacitor with the same polarity. Basically the bifilar choke allow a mechanism where you maintain resonance on a capacitor inductor system but you only charge the capacitor in one direction... You need a switch for that... two of them... stan hided all... and there are other way to connect things other than stan showed consequently.