### Author Topic: Maybe using both hho and water......  (Read 6645 times)

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##### Maybe using both hho and water......
« on: July 24, 2011, 20:32:57 pm »
What if we use a little bit of HHO in an engine to heat up a drop of water, which expands in volume and so run an engine?
The amount of HHO needed is much less, then if you ran it fully on HHO.
Just a plasma sparkplug, a bit of HHO for getting a high temp rockets boost flame to heat up a waterdrop.....

Here some more theory on this:

A significant feature of the vaporization phase change of water is the large change in volume that accompanies it. A mole of water is 18 grams, and at STP that mole would occupy 22.4 liters if vaporized into a gas. If the change is from water to steam at 100°C, rather than 0°C, then by the ideal gas law that volume is increased by the ratio of the absolute temperatures, 373K/273K, to 30.6 liters. Comparing that to the volume of the liquid water, the volume expands by a factor of 30600/18 = 1700 when vaporized into steam at 100°C. This is a physical fact that firefighters know, because the 1700-fold increase in volume when water is sprayed on a fire or hot surface can be explosive and dangerous.

One way to visualize this large volume change is to note the volume of 18 ml of water in a graduated cylinder as the volume occupied by Avogadro's number of water molecules in the liquid state. If converted into steam at 100°C this same mole of water molecules would fill a balloon 38.8 cm in diameter (15.3 inches).
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So, maybe the injector of Meyer was indead a waterinjector/sparkplug.
By adding a bit of HHO on the air intake, he had the HHO needed to vapourize the waterdrop...

Steve

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##### Re: Maybe using both hho and water......
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2011, 06:35:05 am »
There is very little thermal energy(heat) output from the combustion of HHO in it's normal ground state. Hence the need to positively ionize the gasses, not only to control the volatility of the mixture, but to increase the thermal output of the combustion. And there are other factors such as HHO needing to be an almost perfect 2:1 ratio for combustion to occur. I believe Stan figured this all out through his works and came to the final conclusion that in order to ensure no misfires or mishaps, he would have to design an injector that would do all of the needed processes and reactions to happen in the injector and cylinder. 1st, inject a mixture of water, positively ionized air, and exhaust through the high voltage zones of the injector into the cylinder, 2nd, compress the mixture in the cylinder with the upstroke of the piston, and 3rd, detonate the compressed mixture at the optimal time of the cycle. Any water not split in the reaction will definitely result in added torque from the water flashing to steam.

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##### Re: Maybe using both hho and water......
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2011, 10:49:28 am »
Hi Bubz,

Maybe its even more simple then we think.
If you have a HHO flame and put it against metal, then you will notice a very high temperature.
So high, that even Steel turns into liquid in no time.
So, the reaction in and around a sparkplug would be similar, i suppose....

« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 11:32:31 am by Steve »

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##### Re: Maybe using both hho and water......
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2011, 17:02:49 pm »
Hi Steve!

Very good point! Although, the water itself will prevent that from happening. For example, a pot of water can be heated with temperatures high enough to melt the pot, but the pot will not melt until all the water has boiled way. If you have ever had the luxury of owning a vehicle with an aluminum head and have had a sudden loss of coolant from something like a radiator hose rupture, you will find very quickly that the aluminum will warp when the vehicle is allowed to run without any coolant. Water has a lower boiling point than aluminum, and aluminum has a lower boiling point than steel. Point being, heat will remain at the level of the lowest boiling point of used materials until that material has boiled or burned away, then climb to the next level of the remaining materials in succession with the respective boiling points.

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##### Re: Maybe using both hho and water......
« Reply #4 on: July 26, 2011, 13:46:15 pm »
Good point, Bubz.

But might there be an turning point on that?
Meaning that if you have soo much metal and just a tiny drop of water, this law doesnt apply fully anymore?

Steve

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##### Re: Maybe using both hho and water......
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2011, 01:40:57 am »
It's a conundrum to me. I split the water, then mix the HHO with water vapor or mist, then burn the gasses back into water, while the heat generated from that burn is absorbed by the "already mixed in" water vapor/mist and expands rapidly by flashing to steam? Finally, it is assumed there will be enough energy to effectively run a certain type of motor/engine? Is that the gist of it?  I suppose anything is possible, and I won't know till I try it. Something about it just doesn't seem right.

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##### Re: Maybe using both hho and water......
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2011, 06:31:12 am »
it is assumed there will be enough energy to effectively run a certain type of motor/engine? Is that the gist of it?
I believe the point of the added water is to turn some of the energy converted to heat during the detonation of the gas into pressure. This is not as far fetched. In WWII this idea was used extensively to conserve fuel.

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##### Re: Maybe using both hho and water......
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2011, 22:32:51 pm »
I am not saying it can't be done, it may be doing it already for all I know. It's just weird to think of heating water with something that turns into water. The opposite would be akin to, fighting fire with fire...