Author Topic: KOH and SS resistance  (Read 5385 times)

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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #8 on: July 16, 2011, 03:05:20 am »
Wanted to add another chart.

Large surface area allows lower voltage and more current draw. 

Kind of already knew this one, but again documenting some tests.

This again had lots of KOH added.

One disappointment is on the single cell 3 volts @ 20 amps, 4 volts @ 40 amps. 
An exact double - the offset results I had when I first started this did not appear.


LATE EDIT - an exact double in voltage would allow exact double in amperage - this only increased by 1 volt and doubled the amperage.
If the effect was not here voltage would have been 6 volts for 40 amps, not 4 volts.

The results are in the 2 and 3 cell tests.

I am pushing the limits of the variac - it is rated at 130 volts @ 20 amps - but keep in mind I am pulling up to 64 amps out of it.
(the overall power is under 250 watts, but really not intended for so many amps drawn at low voltage)
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 03:14:00 am by warj1990 »

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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #9 on: July 16, 2011, 03:34:33 am »
Here is tap water with a single cell.


Gas production rate seemed correct to current flow.


Around 80 volts the graph moves slightly higher as the water is heating up. 


My data collection was for every volt, however I did not find a significant resistance change as I have in my other experiments.
 

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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #10 on: July 16, 2011, 16:28:24 pm »
I believe Stans circuit with the chokes was to limit the current.

This is looking and related to the KOH and series cell.

At 2 volts the system is drawing between 2 and 5 amps.

At 3 volts the system is drawing between 20 and 45 amps.

The inductor (choke)/ resistor time constant allows the voltage to rise - without the massive amp draw.

It takes time for a choke to allow amp draw to pass through. It also drops the voltage as the current is limited.

So using a choke, verifying the time constant with the cell, and selecting the correct frequency you can apply whatever voltage you wanted and keep the amp draw low.
This prevents the massive current flow with a 1 volt change in the cell.

Here is an example for some clarification.

I have a voltage supply of 0 to 12 volts.  I can pulse it on and off 50% duty cycle.  The cell will draw 10 amps at 12 volts, but I want the amps to remain lower.

One choke time constant = L / R,   inductance / resistance.
Each time constant allows 63.2 % change from total.

We tune the frequency to match 1 time constant of the system. So the choke will have power applied for 1 time constant and off for 1 time constant.
(the time constant (aka frequency) is variable with water resistance and choke size).

Here is the data for the frequency (on/off) and current in the cell (resistor).

Start 0 time.
On 6.32 amps
off 2.32 amps
On 7.18 amps
off 2.64 amps
On 7.29 amps
off 2.68 amps
On 7.3  amps
off 2.69 amps
On 7.31 amps
off 2.69 amps
On 7.31 amps
off 2.69 amps
On 7.31 amps
End.

This shows with the choke time constant and a 50% duty cycle the current will stabilize between 2.69 amps and 7.31 amps.

Remember in some of my experiments the water is a variable resistor - so to keep the current from climbing as we really crank up the voltage we need a pause or break in the cycles.  Now we have Stan's pulse wave form.

Keep in mind my system with KOH is going to draw much more amps at 12 volts.

This is all still Faraday based, you apply 12 volts (on and off) but the choke only allows the cell to get 3-4 volts depending on the time constant, etc...

The only boost you may get is from the bifilar choke - I strongly believe this was just done to amplify the choke value more than 2 separate chokes.

I am about 2 weeks from getting the parts for experimentation on this setup, in the mean time comments are welcome.

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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2011, 11:33:09 am »
Hi WJ,

I also done tests with pulsing and chokes.
You noticed the same as i did.
If you have the right frequency in relation with the bifcoil and the wfc, you will see amps being restricted.
But here also, i could not find more efficiency in the electrolysis proces.
I didnt find any " extra" power kick from the coils.

So, yes. More volts, less amps and no better results.
The only theory i can share was the fact that maybe we can use larger surfaces of electrodes, without shorting the powersupply.
More surface does have better efficiency....

My volts tests stopped at 300volts. Maybe i should have taken it up to 1kv.......


Steve

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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #12 on: July 18, 2011, 00:39:23 am »
I think I need to look over your projects more.

At least we have some independent verification, as our results seem to be matching.

I am going to run the natural water tests again up to 130 volts and see if I get the resistance change on a different tube. 

Maybe the first tube connected does not have the effect of less resistance with voltage ?

Maybe the water flow rate is what lowered the resistance ?

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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #13 on: July 18, 2011, 02:01:04 am »
Here is a chart of each of the cells.


4 different tubes in my current design.


I started with cold water on each test.


Tube 2 shows a little better performance, current draw.


Current draw seems to lower by 1/2 amp with negative in the center and positive on the outside.


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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2011, 02:23:04 am »
I notice the chart is still not a strait line, for current increase.  I attributed this to the water heating on the past experiment.

This graph shows the last results with a single cell and I started with cold water at 130 volts, then tested at 50 then at 10.

They are the same current draw - so the lower resistance at higher voltage is not due to heating water - while it is true it is not the effect seen here.

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Re: KOH and SS resistance
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2011, 02:36:17 am »
Looking over my past work in this topic I notice the resistance drop around 3 amps on all the tests.

So the 3 amps of gas production is allowing the water to flow, causing a drop in electrical resistance.

So to make our cells more efficient we need to circulate the water (more amp draw for same voltage).

Here is a chart of the last experiment and resistance.

I would consider this to be voltage dependent, however with different water, KOH and Tap, I am seeing different voltage levels(3 volts vs 70 volts) for the effect.  While current is showing a pattern, therefor allowing water movement as the gas is produced.


The chart should say "Resistance Ohms - could be associated with water flow/movement"
Not on the current graph.


Wanted to note a late edit on reply # 8 where the voltage raised 1 volt and amperage doubled.


Added Water Resistance VS Voltage, natural tap water.

« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 06:04:28 am by warj1990 »