Author Topic: Different kind of VIC Circuit  (Read 12704 times)

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #24 on: June 19, 2011, 13:31:04 pm »
Hi WJ,

What is the type of SK diode do you use at the moment?

Again , great stuff, with all that high power circulating around!!

Steve

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #25 on: June 19, 2011, 17:49:21 pm »
Steve,
I am using this at the cell: HFA15TB60, 600 volt rating, 15 amp, ultra fast/soft recovery
I ordered MBR2030CTL, 30 volt, 20 amp Schottky diodes (since the cell is conductive the voltage across it is small)

Some tests today was trying to figure out how to bypass the diode, trying to sync the signal to a parallel set of Mosfets (more like thoughts not tests).

Using an opti-isolator/coupler  the signal would be out of sync (allowing for rise time of the device and rise time of Fets).

IGBT's transfer current in only one direction, but have the voltage loss problem also.

The SSR's I purchased use SCR's as final output - which again have voltage drop.

I am not sure if the voltage drop is killing the current, or causing it to be out of sync (diode shutting down before 0 crossing / reversal of inductance).

I moved the diode array to the end of the coils, connecting one leg to the cell and the other to the secondary cap.  Only got 0.5 amps into the cell.
I checked the connection between the chokes and it showed the high amperage again, 5 to 10 amps circulating based on input voltage.

I then switched my meters to verify they were reading correctly - no change.


I think I matched my goal of co-equaling the series cells current for current. 


The new problem is achieving DC across the cell, keeping it in sync (kiss method) and maintaining the efficiency needed.
If anyone has any ideas please speak up, the keys "gole"(aka google) are being warn out on my computer.

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2011, 19:46:36 pm »
I tried using 4 mosfets as a means to direct the current (ac switch)
No luck - I think the freq. is too high for the internal diodes.
Secondly I tried an external inductor(377mh) and a diode to bypass the inductor in one direction Still a no go.
The inductor presented a reactance that was off the resonate frequency of the xformer - therefore it just created a very large resistor in the circuit.
Still scratching my head on this one. 
I can still get high current and high voltage as long as no other components are in the resonating path.
Can we use AC, untouched no rectification to do electrolysis?  Maybe I need to build a 20-50 kv resonate circuit and find out.

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2011, 20:12:18 pm »
with the tube cell connected:


input current(amps)         cell voltage(AC)
1                                          50v
2                                          69v
3                                          105v
4                                          125v


No gas production.

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2011, 22:54:59 pm »
I figured I would try something that requires AC to work, a light bulb.


input volts        input amps            output volts         output amps         bulb            resistance(bulb)
25                        3.5                         1.97                       1.43               100w                 10.5
25                        2.65                       1.265                     1.23               60w                   18.8
25                       1.9                          65                          9.04               direct connect wires.
25                       10.5                        16                          1.5                 **See note        11.8
 
**Tried 4x  100 watts and 1x 60 watt in parallel (notice resistance only slightly changed)
A light bulb is a coil of wire so it does have some XL however the primary power draw is in the form of resistance.

All light bulbs are lighting up, but I have no way to establish the intensity of them. I would guess 75% and better on intensity.

« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 11:06:14 am by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #29 on: June 20, 2011, 00:46:44 am »
Resistor check, since the light(inductor) didn't go so well.

At 25 volts in and a 10 ohm resistor I got to see the resistor explode (1/2watt rating)

Here are the rest:
Input voltage        input current           output voltage        output current      Resistance       Notes
5                                2.5a                         na                            0.5                     10                 Smoking hot in a few seconds.
5                                1.9                           12.47                       1.1                     3.3                warm to touch in a few seconds 3x 10 ohm.
5                                1.08                         15.7                         1.6                     1.25              8x 10 ohm parallel

This configuration works backwards of a standard electronics circuit.
The higher the resistance the less efficient the system is.
If/when you achieve 0 resistance it should only draw power to the driver circuit, which means my amp meter is working correctly 10 amp draw with only the wires and wfc connected.

Standard circuits: 5 volts / 1.25 ohms = 4 amp draw from supply, burn out resistors. This circuit allows lower resistance to achieve higher voltage, therefor more current flow.

Still the question remains how to get this AC to DC efficiently for the highly conductive water.

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #30 on: June 20, 2011, 02:06:45 am »

Follow up of the week.

Any resistance on the tank circuit draws power out of the tank into the component.

This is why Stanley made the VIC in the manner he did.
(my thoughts on this setup as I see them now)

1, the secondary has several turns to boost the chokes(tank) voltage.
2, the chokes are low turns to allow the tank to operate(resonate) several times without all the wire resistance from the secondary.
3, there is an optimum ratio of secondary and choke turns, based on the core design, secondary capacitor, basically energy transfer from primary to secondary/chokes per cycle) More details on this in another section soon.


Basically voltage is read at both ends of the tank(at the capacitor).  The voltage in the middle of the chokes will always read whatever the losses are in the system.

If I take a 9 volt battery and connect positive to negative on another 9 volt battery I have a total of 18 volts.  The voltage between the positive of battery 1 and negative of battery 2 are the losses in the connection.
With a wire the losses are small, close to 0, with a resistor the losses are greater, thereby causing the total voltage to be lower as well(when the positive and negative terminals are connected to an outside source-so current can flow).

That is the example we are doing with the split chokes.  Of coarse no current flows in the battery idea because the two ends are open.  In our VIC the 2 ends connect to a capacitor allowing the charges to move back and forth (inductor/capacitor/water-resistor)
 
I still need to split this AC resonance to feed 2 cells DC only.  I have connected the cells directly with AC (above posting) and the efficiency still remains in the system (several amps AC passing through the water). 

On placing a set of rectifier diodes in the chokes the system quickly looses efficiency.
loosing 0.7v x 2 = 1.4 volts per cycle @ 40khz/second.  The primary supply is replacing this lost voltage every cycle causing the load on the primary.

Any external choke (off the resonating core) will kill the system, as this becomes a large resistance (xL).
I am using distilled water and 25% by weight KOH in the system (about 2lb KOH to a gallon of water)
Again wanting the lowest possible resistance in the water.

Meyer used natural water, but the video of him running the buggy shows a lot of trash in the system (green "stuff" floating in the water).  I want to keep the electrodes clean so I am experimenting with distilled water.

(sorry to edit every post, but my single space keeps turning to double space once I submit the information)
« Last Edit: June 20, 2011, 04:00:21 am by warj1990 »

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Re: Different kind of VIC Circuit
« Reply #31 on: June 21, 2011, 00:59:08 am »
I figured out why the current drops so bad in DC, thanks to some friends at work.

First up, the diode is a clipping diode, so from AC to DC cuts the voltage in half (half the current flow due to have the voltage).
(The other half of the voltage / current is being directed to the other diode - which is not connected to the meter.)

A little more than half drop is expected as this is not a full rectification, there is dwell time in the circuit as the current flows in reverse through the other diode, again not where my meter is connected.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2011, 03:48:51 am by warj1990 »