Author Topic: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO  (Read 6212 times)

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2010, 01:37:43 am »
One of the Anton group said something about modifing the engine into a way that the explosion and implosion mustnt work against eachother....
So i went reading.
 
This i found:
 
 
 
"Does Brown's Gas implode ?"

Among the "wonderful" properties of "Brown's Gas" is that when ignited it doesn't explode, it implodes. That is, the reaction product has a smaller volume than the initial gas mixture. Is this true? Is it remarkable? The answers to these two questions are "Not exactly" and "No." Brown's Gas is that you get if you electrolyze water and keep the resulting hydrogen and oxygen mixed together. Let me make two important comments at this point. One is that it would be extremely hazardous to store any large quantity of Brown's Gas, either at atmospheric pressure or in compressed form. A spark, or the presence of any material which catalyzes the hydrogen/oxygen reaction, will cause a devastating explosion. The second comment is that all the energy which comes from burning Brown's Gas was put into it by the electrical energy used to electrolyze the water. In a loose sense, since Brown's Gas could be used as fuel for an engine and, since Brown's Gas is made from water, one could say that one was running a car on water. However, the power driving the car is coming entirely from the electrical input, not from the water. A car "driven" by Brown's Gas would either have to carry a large tank of compressed gas (see my point one) or drag a long power cord behind it. If you had electrical power available you would be much, much better off driving the car with an electric motor than fooling around with a gas generator and a gas powered motor.
   So does Brown's Gas explode? Yes, of course it does. As it happens, in my foolhardy youth I once filled a polyethylene bag with a mixture of hydrogen and oxygen and lit it from a safe distance. It exploded very satisfactorily and made a very loud boom. Many of NASA's rockets, including the Space Shuttle, burn hydrogen and oxygen. If Brown's Gas always imploded, the rockets would be sucked into the ground.
What you may have seen, and I have seen, is some Brown's Gas being put into a cylinder and then being ignited. The piston in the cylinder is sucked in with a thump. However, if the piston was free to move outwards it would fly across the room. Brown's Gas would be great in spud guns. When ignited, Brown's Gas explodes, that is it burns rapidly, generating hot, high pressure gas, in this case, water vapor. Because it is inside a long, narrow, room temperature cylinder the water vapor rapidly condenses into liquid water, heating the cylinder as it does so. Since the water has much less volume than the hot vapor the pressure inside the cylinder drops suddenly, pulling in the piston. The cylinder heats up in the process, the heat energy from the burning Brown's Gas has to go somewhere. If the experiment were to be repeated, for example in a continuously operating engine, the cylinder would get hotter and hotter and eventually the internal pressure would blow it apart. So the answers are: Does Brown's Gas implode? No, Brown's Gas explodes like any other combustible gas mixture. Is this remarkable? No, except that in this case the combustion product, water, readily condenses to a liquid.

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2010, 01:42:07 am »
Long story short:
 
When the H and O explode, you will get watervapour back, which has less volume.
So, if the piston is too slow after the explosion, it will be slowed down more by decrease of pressure on the re-combination of the H and into vapour.....
 
Maybe i can adjust the valves even more, like open the exhaust valve as early as possible orso.
Or the timing of the piston and the crank...'
http://www.animatedengines.com/otto.shtml
 
Anybody suggestions? Need some now, please.......
 
Steve
 

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2010, 02:09:31 am »
Steve what is happening? Isn“t the motor runing with only hho?

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2010, 05:31:42 am »
the only way i can imagine doing what stan was doing is the full process.. ionized air mixing with fuel gas.. i think stan could *  the flame long enough to condese at the state of exiting the cylinder..

stan says it will continue to release thermal energy until balance is met.. so that means it will contiune to realase a expansive effect until balanced.. thermal energy is expanding energy..
you just need to expand the duration of release by retarding the fuel which i realy beleve is the ionized gas.

i would find it quiet interesting to experiment with a stor bought ionizer hooked to intake with fuel gasses being introduced right after the ozone and send right into intake. just as stan was doing.. although i dont know the quantity of ozone stan was creating to run the buggy..

 heres a example of what i would try maybe steve..

http://www.aquasythe.com/Products/Gen-X-Ozone-Generatorbr-0-250-mlh__OZ-GX250.aspx

you probably can find one cheaper but im looking at 150-300mg/hour runs from 99- 300 bucks this one has a built in pump!

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Re: 6.5hp generator made ready for HHO
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2010, 09:13:52 am »
Hi Steve,
i have grappled with the explode implode terory for many years. I once saw a demonstration of an engine (modified GEO) which was converted to an engine that was best described as a detonation engine rather than an ignition ehgine. I was able to take advantage of the immediate explosion and also with the use of water vappour any excess heat.
I feel there is something into what the =Anton people have said and they have a pretty powerfull ignition system.
To me if you can capture the explosion then the implosion you could take advantage of both. however the way the valves are timed now and the distance the pistion has to travel this is not possible. The question is at what point does the explosion become the implosion.
If you did not want the implosion slowing the piston down i would have the exhaust valve openning almost imediatly after ignition has taken place. However I am only guessing here.
Putting the above aside it would be a good experiment to see how much fuel you need to make yours a self runner and compare this with normal consumption under the same load.
Mark