Author Topic: Tube cell reloaded  (Read 17726 times)

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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #16 on: April 05, 2010, 15:23:34 pm »
Okay i had two hours time today.

The dc resonant charging circuit from richieburnett didn't work the way it's shown there.
the cap and diode have to be in parallel with the switch (mosfet). after i had figured that out i got 50V voltage pulses from a 12V dc without the transformer and with one coil (not bifilar).
next step was to insert the transformer (12V:230), i had 800V peak pulses without anything connected to the high side of the transformer, when connecting everything it was around between 200V and 500V at the cell (measured with oscilloscope, you could clearly see the fast cap charging and slow discharge pattern), changing with use of components (bifilars, single coil, frequency, primary voltage).
resonance wasn't hard to find, the voltage at the cap was double the voltage at one coil (when using bifilar). but i think the resonant charging part didn't work correct with the transformer in the circuit.
Anyway, i saw bubbles! A steady stream of very tiny bubbles coming out, was euphoric of course because i had the oscilloscope showing the voltage peaks of several hundred volts. Unfortunately my (non rms) amp meter displayed a current of 0,1Amps, which would be enough for the hydrogen created there, which makes me think it's normal electrolysis.
On the other hand one tube was wrapped in saran wrap and the current COULD have been the displacement current. Don't know as of now what it was.

Next steps are:
- altering the frequency generator yet again (0 to 100kHz in 100Hz steps)
- prove resonant charging with transformer in place (will probably substitute the watercap with a regular one first)

I'll keep you updated :)

edit: Oh i see that Steve has made a thread with a similar resonant charging circuit, so he has encountered the problem too.

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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #17 on: April 06, 2010, 17:42:02 pm »
Today i tried the bifilar coil alone with the diode and without the cap. At the right connection pattern the coil created 85V spikes from 12V at 300kHz (frequency can be significantly lower), 50% duty cycle, current 0,1A. Other connection draws way more amps and not this high voltage spikes. Incredible.

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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #18 on: April 06, 2010, 17:52:15 pm »
good news, keep at it!

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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #19 on: April 06, 2010, 21:10:22 pm »
Okay i had two hours time today.

The dc resonant charging circuit from richieburnett didn't work the way it's shown there.
the cap and diode have to be in parallel with the switch (mosfet). after i had figured that out i got 50V voltage pulses from a 12V dc without the transformer and with one coil (not bifilar).
next step was to insert the transformer (12V:230), i had 800V peak pulses without anything connected to the high side of the transformer, when connecting everything it was around between 200V and 500V at the cell (measured with oscilloscope, you could clearly see the fast cap charging and slow discharge pattern), changing with use of components (bifilars, single coil, frequency, primary voltage).
resonance wasn't hard to find, the voltage at the cap was double the voltage at one coil (when using bifilar). but i think the resonant charging part didn't work correct with the transformer in the circuit.
Anyway, i saw bubbles! A steady stream of very tiny bubbles coming out, was euphoric of course because i had the oscilloscope showing the voltage peaks of several hundred volts. Unfortunately my (non rms) amp meter displayed a current of 0,1Amps, which would be enough for the hydrogen created there, which makes me think it's normal electrolysis.
On the other hand one tube was wrapped in saran wrap and the current COULD have been the displacement current. Don't know as of now what it was.

Next steps are:
- altering the frequency generator yet again (0 to 100kHz in 100Hz steps)
- prove resonant charging with transformer in place (will probably substitute the watercap with a regular one first)

I'll keep you updated :)

edit: Oh i see that Steve has made a thread with a similar resonant charging circuit, so he has encountered the problem too.

Yes, i made it working.

http://www.ionizationx.com/index.php/topic,1355.0.html

The key to production with HV is that you have to have a basic current flowing.
The current creates from water a conductor. Then you can hit it with HV.
The HV MUST be HF as well. Try to keep it higher then 10khz.
Electrons will travel on the OUTSIDE of the conductor, aka watermolecule path.
Google on tesla's skineffect.

Steve





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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #20 on: April 06, 2010, 22:23:00 pm »
Yes i know the skin effect. So the current at high frequency will travel on the outer layers of water and not right through, together with the vic the current will be limited this way and not much current through the water.
Now the important question is, does pure voltage split the water?

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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #21 on: April 08, 2010, 11:22:24 am »
Yes i know the skin effect. So the current at high frequency will travel on the outer layers of water and not right through, together with the vic the current will be limited this way and not much current through the water.
Now the important question is, does pure voltage split the water?

Yes pure voltage spits water!!!!!!!!

Do you understand the meaning of my publishings? ((" It was to show you how to get voltage across the water, ")) Now its your job to take that information and make it work.

Now you can see voltage across the water do nothing, It just sits there. You know there is voltage there so why is it not splitting the water molecule? Go find your answer as you've been given the path.

When you succeed in Kv across your cell, Make them Kvolts do something and forget amps and current, Get current out of your head, Forget it. Alter the voltage not the current. How can voltage be altered? How must the molecule want the voltage to perform???

Take for example the microwave oven, Why does the water become heated?
Take for example the Vic, Why does the water become seperated?

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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #22 on: April 08, 2010, 11:28:16 am »
Taken from the internet www

When your fingers are close enough to the door handle, a spark jumps. Or in other words, the intense electric field in the space between your fingers and the metal handle will tear the air molecules apart. First the field stretches the molecules by attracting their alike charges while repelling the unlike ones. Then finally an electron pulls loose from one molecule. This electron takes off at extremely high speed, driven by the e-field. It quickly strikes another air molecule, which liberates more electrons, which then repeat the process. It resembles a landslide, where one pebble strikes another, freeing it to strike others. This "electron avalanche" glows violet, since some electrons are recaptured by air molecules, and they emit violet light typical of ionized nitrogen/oxygen mixtures. Some of the light is ultraviolet, and this light knocks electrons off neighboring air molecules. Also, the region of space that's filled with electrons and positive ions is a conductor, a plasma, and so it distorts the flux lines of the electric field. Plasmas typically take the shape of a long filament, a "lightning leader," since the tip of the plasma filament is somewhat sharp, and it causes the e-field to concentrate there (which promotes faster creation of plasma.)

The electron avalanche and the plasma filament can start out on the car door, then reach outwards toward your fingers. Or it can start out on your fingers and leap towards the door. Or it can be triggered by dust motes in the space between the two, and then leap in both directions. Charge polarity doesn't make too much difference, and the visible "leaping" of sparks is NOT a motion of charges, it's not a visible current. Instead it's an outbreak of glowing plasma, and this outbreak can go in either direction.

Finally the plasma filament touches your finger and the car door. It's a conductor with a typical resistance of a few tens of ohms. This conductor EXPLODES. It has shorted out the capacitor plates formed by your body and the metal car. The e-field in the space between you and the car then collapses inwards towards the spark. Electrical energy that was in the space near your hand is flowing inwards towards the spark. (Energy doesn't flow across the spark, instead the energy behaves like a cylinder shape that surrounds the spark and shrinks inwards.)

A huge electric current appears in the spark, and temperatures in the air (and in the dead skin surrounding your salty conductive flesh) rise to immense values. The air emits sound and bright light, while your dead skin is cooked or even vaporized by the electrical energy pouring into the spark. The pain you experience is not necessarily electrical, it's similar to having your finger poked by a white-hot needle. If you grasp a metal coin or some keys, and let the spark jump to the metal, you'll feel almost nothing. The metal prevents the burn while doing little to stop the current.

Painful finger-sparks can measure a few amperes, but they only last for a hundredth of a microsecond. The worst ones can range up to many tens of amperes, with peak energy flow up in the megawatts. But these sparks last for incredibly brief times. Your nervous system only responds on time scales of a tenth or a hundredth of a second. Your nervous system "blurs" the energy and charge flows, and it "thinks" that the wattage and current of the spark is roughly a million times weaker than it actually is. Hurts though.

For more info about the typical "human finger sparks" used by manufacturers for stress-testing new appliances, search for HBM or "Human Body Model": Google: ESD, HBM, CDM, MM

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Re: Tube cell reloaded
« Reply #23 on: April 08, 2010, 17:54:58 pm »
thanks Warp. I read your posts concerning the voltage disassociation of water and will continue doing so.