Author Topic: Charles Law of thermodynamics  (Read 10146 times)

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Charles Law of thermodynamics
« on: October 05, 2009, 16:59:31 pm »
HHO = 2.5 times stronger then petrol.
But, we forget that we also need volume.
Petrol is mixed with air.
HHO doesnt need to mixed, because it is already an ideal mix.
So, how to make more volume of the same HHO, so we can fill the cylinder proper?

Anybody any suggestions?

Steve
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 14:04:52 pm by Steve »

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Re: Law of Gay Lussac
« Reply #1 on: October 05, 2009, 17:40:53 pm »
ionized air and exhaust gasses

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Re: Law of Gay Lussac
« Reply #2 on: October 05, 2009, 22:36:03 pm »
ionized air and exhaust gasses

I was more thinking about heating up HHO in a way that the volume is about 2.5 time the size of what comes out our wfc.....
That volume should be as powerfull as petrol.
At least the cylinder has more filling, which it absolutely needs.....
Maybe this way, we can slow the burnrate down?

Steve



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Re: Law of Gay Lussac
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2009, 13:07:05 pm »
For a given mass of HHO, at a given pressure; the volume that the gass takes up will increase with temp.
The mass of HHO depends on the number of atoms.
This does not increase with temperature.
in fact; it means that you will be able to get less HHO into a given volume (engine cylinder) as you increase its temperature.
Less atoms of HHO in the cylinder means less energy released from burning them = less power.

Engine tuners go to great lengths to keep the air going into an engine as cold as possible. (intercoolers, cold air intakes, etc)
This means that you get more oxygen into each cylinder.
More oxygen means you can add more fuel to burn with it; which gives more power.

BMW's hydrogen car produces less power when running on H (rather than petrol) because the required H takes up much more space in the cylinders than petrol.
Space that could be taken up by oxygen...

Its also the reason the geet may work better with an intercooler.
An intercooler that cools the gas, but not so much as to cause any vapours to condense.

You need more atoms of H & O; not the same number of atoms taking up more volume/space.

There is no getting away from needing to produce more HHO with; either less energy or waste energy.
Then cool it down as much as possible to get more into each cylinder to get the max power from that engine.

 :)


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Re: Law of Gay Lussac
« Reply #4 on: October 06, 2009, 13:47:14 pm »
For a given mass of HHO, at a given pressure; the volume that the gass takes up will increase with temp.
The mass of HHO depends on the number of atoms.
This does not increase with temperature.
in fact; it means that you will be able to get less HHO into a given volume (engine cylinder) as you increase its temperature.
Less atoms of HHO in the cylinder means less energy released from burning them = less power.

Engine tuners go to great lengths to keep the air going into an engine as cold as possible. (intercoolers, cold air intakes, etc)
This means that you get more oxygen into each cylinder.
More oxygen means you can add more fuel to burn with it; which gives more power.

BMW's hydrogen car produces less power when running on H (rather than petrol) because the required H takes up much more space in the cylinders than petrol.
Space that could be taken up by oxygen...

Its also the reason the geet may work better with an intercooler.
An intercooler that cools the gas, but not so much as to cause any vapours to condense.

You need more atoms of H & O; not the same number of atoms taking up more volume/space.

There is no getting away from needing to produce more HHO with; either less energy or waste energy.
Then cool it down as much as possible to get more into each cylinder to get the max power from that engine.

 :)

Ok, let me try to convince you here. If you have HHO, that means you have the ideal mix of H and O. We dont want more oxygen because the mix will not be ideal anymore. That mix of H and O is like 2.5 times more powerfull then a basic petrol/air mix.
If you use petrol drops you MUST add ambient air for couple of reasons.
1. need of oxygen for the burning process and volume
2. need of nitrogen for volume (it automatically adjusts burnrates too)

1 and 2 provide a volume with a certain burnrate/power
HHO has with less volume the same power with a faster burnrate
So what to do to match HHO to a current engine?
Well, we can mix the HHO with ambient air, which i did, and you are getting lots of nitrogen in the mix, which creates more volume and less HH per volume.
But what happens too, is that the ideal mix of H and O is gone because of the extra oxygen.

Thats why i think we should heat up HHO. Make the gas expand 2.5 times. You get 2.5 time more volume with less H and O, but still in the ideal mix for burning.

 ;)
Steve









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Charles Law of thermo dynamics
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2009, 14:04:19 pm »
Stan Meyer: NO LAWS ARE BROKEN OF THERMODYNAMICS....


What is Gay-Lussac's Law?
Gay-Lussac's Law is the third and final of the laws leading up to the ideal gas law. The first is Boyle's Law, which gives the relationship between volume and pressure, and the second is Charles' Law, which gives the relationship between volume and temperature. Gay-Lussac's Law has also been referred to as Charles' Law, but they are not the same.

The founder of this particular thermodynamic relation is Joseph Gay-Lussac (1785-1850). He not only rescued Charles' Law from oblivion by duplicating the experiments and publishing the results, but re-created similar conditions to find the connection between pressure and temperature. Gay-Lussac found that for a gas, if the pressure increases, the temperature increases, and if the temperature increases, so does the pressure.

The Equation
According to Gay-Lussac's Law, at constant volume V, the pressure P is directly proportional to the temperature T:

1) P ˜ T

or

2) P = kT where k = constant

Rewriting equation 2, we have:

3) P/T = constant

Gay-Lussac's Law is also commonly written as:

4) P1/T1 = P2/T2

where P1 and T1 are the original values of the gas, while P2 and T2 represent its final values. In addition to the pressure being constant, the same caveats used in any ideal gas law apply here. These results apply for systems where an equilibrium state has been reached, the gas is not too dense, and P is around atmospheric pressure. Real gases approximate these conditions enough such that the law is applicable in every day life.



Read more: http://www.brighthub.com/engineering/mechanical/articles/26213.aspx#ixzz0T9mVS0Iz


Charles' Law is named after Jacques Charles (1746-1823), who discovered it but did not publish his findings. Mankind is able to benefit from his work due to the efforts of Joseph Gay-Lussac, who also used this result to fuel his own eponymous discovery.

The Equation
According to Charles' Law, at constant pressure P, the volume V is directly proportional to the temperature T:

1) V ˜ T

or

2) V = kT, where k is a constant

Rewriting equation 2, we have:

3) V/T = constant

Charles' Law is also commonly written as:

4) V1/T1 = V2/T2

where V1 and T1 are the original values of the gas, while V2 and T2 represent its final values.

In addition to the pressure being constant, the same caveats used in any ideal gas law apply here. These results apply for systems where an equilibruim state has been reached, the gas is not too dense, and P is around atmospheric pressure. Real gases approximate these conditions enough such that the law is applicable in every day life.

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Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2009, 16:35:53 pm »
yeah but what does that have to do with stanley meyer and his process?

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Re: Charles Law of thermodynamics
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2009, 20:13:59 pm »
Simple: Stan said he lowerd the burnrate of his HHO to the level of petrol.
Ever asked yourself how?

Steve